Spider-Man: Far From Home (Jon Watts)

[Henry Gale]

IMDb (https://imdb.com/title/tt6320628/) / Wiki (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man:_Far_From_Home)

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BZjBhYWNiMDQtYjRmYy00NzEzLT g1MDYtYzg3YzRkZmRkYjY3XkEyXkFq cGdeQXVyNjg2NjQwMDQ@._V1_SY100 0_CR0,0,674,1000_AL_.jpg

[Henry Gale]

Definitely good but even tougher to share what I really want to without just spoiling things.

Could be the most important mid-credit scene ever for these movies, though.

[Ezee E]

Spoil away! I don't plan to see this.

[Dukefrukem]

I got my tickets for Tuesday. Also have my Lion King tickets. [/Disney shill]

[Ezee E]

Maybe I'll see Lion King on the big screen.

[Ivan Drago]

I can confirm that this movie is really good (even more so than Homecoming), but it's also going to be the hardest to review because spoilers.

But yeah, best mid-credits scene of the MCU.

[Skitch]

I can confirm that this movie is really good (even more so than Homecoming), but it's also going to be the hardest to review because spoilers.

But yeah, best mid-credits scene of the MCU.

Please! I don't care about spoilers. Put it in tags.

[Henry Gale]

Alright well first the sliiightly spoilery, though likely nothing you probably couldn't surmise yourself:

After some awkward dullness to his character and his performance, Gyllenhaal really turns it up and his Mysterio delivers in big ways and about 2/3rds of the way in becomes the force behind one of the most enthralling sequences of the entire MCU for me. Just stunning, nightmarish stuff. I also really liked how they tied his character into the pasts of other characters in play both past and present. Not to mention Zendaya's MJ is given the natural progession of her character in terms of overall knowledge (something I guess the trailers already gave away), but I also really liked the agency and sharpness they gave her, especially compared to the history of how Spider-Man movies have treated his love interests.

But ok then the more major:

The mid-credit reveal of J. Jonah Jameson, (while also turning this universe's modern day The Daily Bugle into its Info Wars and making him the de facto Alex Jones) got a reaction so insane in my screening that I didn't hear half of the dialogue. Also the information he expounds to the public and its implications for the future are even more interesting, especially because we know so little about the path the next phase may take. But as much of an outrigut villain Jameson becomes, I doubt he'll be too present going forward. Though I can hope!

The whole movie is also very funny and made me laugh consistently throughout. I missed the beginning of the end-end credits scene but it seemed beautifully weird as well, though if it implies what I think then what a bizarre revelation for those character's involvement in all this.

[Skitch]

The mid-credit reveal of J. Jonah Jameson, (while also turning this universe's modern day The Daily Bugle into its Info Wars and making him the de facto Alex Jones) got a reaction so insane in my screening that I didn't hear half of the dialogue. Also the information he expounds to the public and its implications for the future are even more interesting, especially because we know so little about the path the next phase may take. But as much of an outrigut villain Jameson becomes, I doubt he'll be too present going forward. Though I can hope!

What kind of cruel hand-job is this?? Who plays JJJ?? What does he say that triggers such implications?? FEED MEEEEEEE

[Henry Gale]

What kind of cruel hand-job is this?? Who plays JJJ?? What does he say that triggers such implications?? FEED MEEEEEEE

See, this I can't do. The reveal is too satisfying.

But it's exactly who you'd hope.

[Skitch]

See, this I can't do. The reveal is too satisfying.

But it's exactly who you'd hope.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't just "mother fucker" a one Henry Gale out loud in my office just now. :D

[Skitch]

Youtube to the rescue! ;)

Perfect.

[Ezee E]

I don't get it. JJJ is bringing huge implications?

[Ivan Drago]

I really enjoyed this. (http://www.foxforcefivenews.com/spider-man-far-from-home-is-a-captivating-satisfying-conclusion-to-phase-3-of-the-mcu-review/)

[Skitch]

I don't get it. JJJ is bringing huge implications?

I assumed he meant huge implications in Peter's identity revealed.

[Dukefrukem]

My initial reaction is this is not only the best Spider-man movie but also the best comic book movie ever.

[Peng]

Ehhhhh. The very high charm of those actual high school field trip parts compensates for the lackluster execution of big picture plot for me, but just barely. It's a testament to Gyllenhaal that I didn't immediately eject mentally outright from the film after the verbal and exposition diarrhea his character is gven when the other shoe drops. Maybe more later... I did like though that Gyllenhaal is given almost this exact moment during the climax (Didn't remember his actual words; still hope it's made into a gif soon):

https://media.giphy.com/media/sUNqplVFtsctW/giphy.gif

[Dukefrukem]

Also, after credits scene basically confirms Galactus as the next big Baddie

[Henry Gale]

My initial reaction is this is not only the best Spider-man movie but also the best comic book movie ever.

Whoops, Duke! This isn't the Into The Spider-Verse thread!

:D

[[ETM]]

Yeah, this was fun in the most unexpected ways. More when I get home, spoiler tags on the phone are a hassle.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[MadMan]

I loved this a lot. Both post credit scenes are ridiculous.

[Morris Schæffer]

Mildest of yays for me, but less a breath of fresh air after the serious, but resonating shenanigans of Endgame and more a return to superhero fatigue for me.
It's a ridiculous spectacle, working only on the most superficial levels for me. The kinda levels where shit blows up, and stuff moves around with panache and visual flair, but
not where I'm fully engaged with the on-screen action. Is it funny? Sometimes, but it's equally forced a few other times. That whole thing between Ned and the blonde girl springs to mind.
These are not normal, flesh and blood people whose behavior can be considered in any way relatable and authentic.

[Skitch]

You guys are all over the map. Where's my trans review?

[Dukefrukem]

That whole thing between Ned and the blonde girl springs to mind.
These are not normal, flesh and blood people whose behavior can be considered in any way relatable and authentic.

Biggest of nitpicks here. Example: That stood out to you as abnormal but not the entire premise? It's within the universe that has been established. We are not watching Brick here.

[Dukefrukem]

Note: When was the last time a highly successful movie got a highly successful sequel that cost less to make?

[Dukefrukem]

You guys are all over the map. Where's my trans review?

FWIW, I dont think he's going to see any more of these. He also liked first movie (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?6817-Spider-Man-Homecoming-(Jon-Watts)&p=573613&viewfull=1#post573613).

[Morris Schæffer]

Biggest of nitpicks here. Example: That stood out to you as abnormal but not the entire premise? It's within the universe that has been established. We are not watching Brick here.

I said it's a ridiculous spectacle, the other thing between Ned and the girl is hardly the film's biggest issue. Does that mean I'm not allowed to bring it up? What exactly was established that means it's ok for 2 people to act completely unnaturally towards each other for the sole purpose of eliciting cheap laughs?

I didn't think the budding romance between Parker and MJ worked either.

[transmogrifier]

FWIW, I dont think he's going to see any more of these. He also liked first movie (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?6817-Spider-Man-Homecoming-(Jon-Watts)&p=573613&viewfull=1#post573613).

That is correct. I mean, I might watch Marvel movies if the pop up on Netflix (assuming Disney streaming does not launch here) and I have nothing better to do, but my days of seeing them in the cinema are over. They are all the same.

[Dukefrukem]

That is correct. I mean, I might watch Marvel movies if the pop up on Netflix (assuming Disney streaming does not launch here) and I have nothing better to do, but my days of seeing them in the cinema are over. They are all the same.

I mean, they are the same as in they all have a hero a villain and the hero wins? I asked this question in the last thread and no one answered: what movie in the MCU is the same as Spider-man Homecoming?

[transmogrifier]

I mean, they are the same as in they all have a hero a villain and the hero wins? I asked this question in the last thread and no one answered: what movie in the MCU is the same as Spider-man Homecoming?

They are all basically the same in terms of tone, style of humor, broad story beats, action choreography etc. Which is fine for those who love all of those things (and who buy into the cross-connections and call backs between movies, which I simply don't care about), but for those like me that think, "yeah, it's okay," watching it all over again 25 times gets to be a bit much. In particular, I find the climatic set-pieces to be almost invariably incredibly boring because there seems to be a limit to how much you can wrangle from the general pattern of "bad guy looks to have the upper hand, no, good guy wins" formula that stands out starkly when it happens in the series where everything else is finessed to fit the franchise model. (In other words, I'm aware that other non-Marvel blockbusters are just as likely to have rather boiler-plate climaxes, but many of them exist in a universe that hasn't been exhaustively chiseled into cultural monolith that reproduces over and over and over, meaning that they have more potential for surprise).

So I'll be going to see Midsommar next week in theaters because I don't want those types of films to die; ones where people either love it or hate it. That's exciting. The MCU is just the same old thing over and over. Yes, other people love it, and are welcome to it. But it's incredibly boring to me.

[Ezee E]

I've said it plenty of times on the MCU. No true stakes. Similar themes over and over again. Similar set pieces over and over again. Forced humor. The Avengers movies worked for me because it actually had some stakes and a slight bit of unpredictability.

[Dukefrukem]

I dunno. The humor in the Spider-man movies is vastly different than the humor in Thor Ragnarok. So I'm still not understanding where this "everything is the same" model is coming in.

And there ARE stakes in these movies whether you think they don't exist or not. And similar set pieces? I suppose the army of Ultrons is the same as the army of Chitari and army of whatever those things were in Infinity War and Endgame, but what set pieces in Spider-man were the same in other movies?

It just feels really lazy to me that we use these broad strokes of criticisms that don't feel like they have any merit. I get where trans is coming from tonally (which I would hope to expect on some level as it is a connected series), but the character journey and interactions are what sets these things apart. I'm not going to convince you otherwise. My main gripe is just the "everything is the same so it sucks" argument. I dont understand it. Peter Parker is not the same as Thor.

[Ezee E]

Black Panther and Thor are very close to being the same thing.
Wakanda and Asgaard are both fantasy cities. Both have heroes as the kings, with someone wanting to take their crown.

Guardians of the Galaxy/Avengers have a bunch of random aliens trying to destroy the world.

Infinity War and Endgame basically had the same last battle.

Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, GOTG have all had mentor characters that ended up being bad... Guessing this happens again in Far From Home

I haven't seen Far From Home, and don't plan to. The stakes in, say Nolan's Batman movies, are far different than what we get in the Marvel movies.

They just bore me. I've skipped most of them. Some still do work. I should see Thor Ragnarok after how much I liked Thor in the last two Avenger movies, and seeing how that comedy worked.

[Morris Schæffer]

I dunno. The humor in the Spider-man movies is vastly different than the humor in Thor Ragnarok. So I'm still not understanding where this "everything is the same" model is coming in.

And there ARE stakes in these movies whether you think they don't exist or not. And similar set pieces? I suppose the army of Ultrons is the same as the army of Chitari and army of whatever those things were in Infinity War and Endgame, but what set pieces in Spider-man were the same in other movies?

It just feels really lazy to me that we use these broad strokes of criticisms that don't feel like they have any merit. I get where trans is coming from tonally (which I would hope to expect on some level as it is a connected series), but the character journey and interactions are what sets these things apart. I'm not going to convince you otherwise. My main gripe is just the "everything is the same so it sucks" argument. I dont understand it. Peter Parker is not the same as Thor.

Not literally, cuz different movies and such. It's more of a tonal thing. FX heavy, extravagant superpowers blasting across the screen left and right, lack of weight, lack of gravitas.

But I don't like blanket statements either, but wasn't the main story of the last 2 Spider-Man's kinda the same? School trip, something bad happens courtesy of the villain of the day, Peter has to sneak out to save the day, rejoins the group and pretends he was out twiddling his thumbs?


But credit to this latest movie. There are some unexpected turns in the story, and the villain's tech was certainly neat, although it probably could have been used for more terrifying purposes than summoning big fire dude and uhm, some other big dudes. But I get his reasoning behind it. It's just the sort of thing that screams 'FX OVERKILL!' in a matter of seconds. That it was all fake improves it slightly for me, but I've still felt bored by it.


Homecoming was better, Spider-Man 2 is still the best.

[Peng]

Jon Watts should really do a high-school rom-com (or just high-school comedy is fine too). I think he would be great at it. The film's best stretches are those breezy, charming scenes of Peter Parker on his school field trip abroad, hanging out with friends, sneaking around as Spider-Man without being detected, and, best of all, attempting a romantic moment with MJ. The endearingly awkward but potent chemistry between Tom Holland and Zendaya really makes me yearn for just a teen romantic comedy version of this film. Zendaya, especially, is a revelation with her increased role, maybe the most distinctive and memorable love interest in a Spider-Man film yet. In recent years of rom-com resurgence, I didn't expect Far From Home to be a sneakily worthy entry into it.

The superhero stuff... well. In broad concept I like Jake Gyllenhaal's character as a fun commentary on the scope and expectation of MCU films, and he plays that aspect well (as I said, that the verbal and exposition diarrhea his character is gven when the other shoe drops doesn't immediately sink the film is entirely to his credit). But the bigger scope than the superior Homecoming proves Jon Watts' shortcoming as superhero director; both the *intentionally* superficial action scenes early on, and the real consequential ones afterwards, feel samely indistinctive and almost wholly left to the actors for me to get invested. This really needs a director like Doctor Strange's Scott Derrickson (or, even better, Waititi) to make this concept come alive.

And the way he tells this particular ruse-filled story, where the initial surface is bland and so exposition-filled just to move things into place, is so inelegant and hurried that a comic-book-ignorant like me suspects something up a mile away. And even if a reveal makes Peter Parker's arc get deeper, the plain in-universe implausability of so many things just make the big-picture plot crumble for me, which is an impressive feat in a film series where they can sell people fighting in outer space and a snap eradicating half of all living things. 6.5/10

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JQLgoWphDc

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JQLgoWphDc

Those videos are annoying, but they kind of hit it right here.

[TGM]

I love the Pitch Meetings. Ryan George is one of my favorite content creators on youtube right now. :p

[MadMan]

Black Panther and Thor are very close to being the same thing.
Wakanda and Asgaard are both fantasy cities. Both have heroes as the kings, with someone wanting to take their crown.

Guardians of the Galaxy/Avengers have a bunch of random aliens trying to destroy the world.

Infinity War and Endgame basically had the same last battle.

Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, GOTG have all had mentor characters that ended up being bad... Guessing this happens again in Far From Home

I haven't seen Far From Home, and don't plan to. The stakes in, say Nolan's Batman movies, are far different than what we get in the Marvel movies.

They just bore me. I've skipped most of them. Some still do work. I should see Thor Ragnarok after how much I liked Thor in the last two Avenger movies, and seeing how that comedy worked.

The mentor in Captain America was a good guy, if we are talking about the first film. If it's the second one then that would be Nick Fury. Also Tony is Peter's mentor...

[MadMan]

Also Thor and Black Panther aren't that alike, especially movie wise. Particularly since the first Black Panther is better than any of the Thor flicks. The first two Avengers were way too similar which is why I like the last two a lot more.

[Dukefrukem]

Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America, GOTG have all had mentor characters that ended up being bad... Guessing this happens again in Far From Home

Does not compute. Mentor character? Like The Ancient One and Doctor Strange?

This is the funny part of the everything is the same argument. you guys aren't even mentioning the most blatant offender being, the first Iron Man and Doctor Strange. This, I admit, is the exact same character arch here, which is why Doctor Strange is one of the worst MCU movies.

But no way you can lump Quill's father, Stane, Pierce and Loki(?) as the same.

[Skitch]

This is an interesting conversation.

Edit: I'm not really in either camp, btw.

[Wryan]

While that Youtube vid is hilarious and quite accurate, I thought this worked better than the impression he gives. It's very breezy and charming; it just shoots by. The adaptation and visual representation of Mysterio and his tricks is spot-fucking-on. I enjoyed the climax quite a bit, even if this whole conceit has kind of been done before, like with that Bond villain Jonathan Pryce played--just, you know, the very '90s version of it. Jake seems to be having a fun time, look at him go. Certainly I was pleased with the mid-credit, fan as I am of the character and actor. Holland, though, continues to be one of the very best and most earnest things about this whole Spider-man mk. 3 diorama. He really puts his whole body, heart and soul into both Peter and Spider-man. He's honestly exceptional and deserving of better Spidey material.

EDIT: Also, I found it hilarious that Mysterio's "real" costume is basically just a mo-cap suit.

Now, I get the pale distaste some people are developing for Marvel movies. I'm not really sure they should be considered "movies" anymore. I don't know what I am paying for when I purchase a Marvel ticket, but it feels like I've made peace with whatever it is, 'cause I still laughed and enjoyed my time. As odd as it feels to say given their seeming cultural touchstone-ness and tentpoley box office bonanzas, but I don't think 50 years from now they'll be regarded with much reverence overall, certainly not of a serious kind. Especially if they continue developing as they are developing. For now, though, I'm having good fun with them for the most part. Some of them even manage to break free from the cement shackles and be quite good. Even as movies.

[Morris Schæffer]

I love the Pitch Meetings. Ryan George is one of my favorite content creators on youtube right now. :p

Yeah, not annoyed by it. Hilarious.

[MadMan]

Heh I really liked and enjoyed the Doctor Strange movie.

[Milky Joe]

Also, after credits scene basically confirms Galactus as the next big Baddie

Wait, how?

Also: loved this. Perfect summer movie. Just the right medicine for me.

[Grouchy]

Fully lived up to expectations and the Mysterio dream sequence is one of the greatest set pieces so far in all of the MCU. The post-credit scenes are insane - I know this happened in the comics but I'm still curious as to how they're going to pull it off in the movies.

As much as I loved the character interactions and the humor, one thing that I wish the filmmakers had done is give the European settings more entity. I mean, if they're in Italy, have a fight at a pasta house or at least put in some street musicians. Otherwise, what's the point?

EDIT: I don't get the Galactus hint either.

[Wryan]

I guess just cause they are in space is all. It's a very brief shot at whatever is outside the windshield of the ship/station, but maybe it was like a supernova or cosmic collision or something-that-could-maybe-be-Galactus-eating-a-planet? I dunno.

[Dukefrukem]

What? No. Yeh they're in space. That's all. Who's the next big cosmic villain?

[Milky Joe]

I'm pretty sure there is more than one villain who inhabits space

[Ezee E]

I'm pretty sure there is more than one villain who inhabits space

Bring on Mojo

[Irish]

I was bored. So so bored. This was "Thor: Dark World" and "Iron Man 2" level bad.

The first hour is a lame Disney Kids romcom, placed in Europe and apparently written by people who've never visited a European city. Seriously, tulips and soccer in the Netherlands? London Bridges falling down? A water monster in Venice? I was kinda embarrassed by this movie's lack of interest in its own setting. It's a $200 million example of the Ugly American.

The school trip was terrible and included every dumb cliche from every "Vacation"-style whatever from the last 40 years. Like they were ripping off lame tv movies from the 90s.

Casting JB Smoove as a chaperone for a school trip is inspired but it only works if you let the actor and the character do something. Anything.

Ditto Zendaya, who's energy level here is downright subdued after the first movie. Good actor, potentially a real star, so why not give her a meaningful subplot?

I'm once again amazed that critics who wring their hands over The Death of Cinema and Marvel's Dominance at the Box Office are not only fine with this deadbeat, sitcom-level writing but actively cheer it.



My biggest beefs:

- The "elemental" villains are dull as hell, weak boss monsters from a knock-off mobile game. Why does the movie stick with them for so long?

- The story is once again top-heavy with overbearing adults. Peter is the center of the movie but he's not allowed agency. He's browbeaten and bullied by Nick Fury and then manipulated by Mysterio. How is that fun? It's like a kid turning up at a weekend kegger only to discover, oops, there's no beer and the thing is actively chaperoned by every adult in the neighborhood.

After the interminable first hour, the plot stops dead so Gyllenhall can explain his Evil Master Plan. Oh, gee, a villain who pretends to be a hero because ... I guess he wants attention? I thought the whole "what if Superman but evil" thing was played out by the time "The Incredibles 2" came around ... but wow was I wrong about that.

What's visually duller? Spider-man fighting CGI'd drones for 30 minutes, or Jake Gyllenhall standing around in a mo-cap suit with a fishbowl on his head? Who looked at this stuff and thought it was a good idea?



Okay, here's my final weird take: Is it just me or does Marvel have a habit of casting male actors whose scenes throw off sexual sparks? Eg:Evans and Stan in all of Cap's movies, Holland and Gyllenhall here. Like, there's a palable chemistry between the leads --- a helluva lot more noticeable than anything between Holland and Zendaya --- and I kept thinking, okay, they should seriously just make out already or somebody needs to cast these two in a "Brokeback" sequel.

[transmogrifier]

I'm once again amazed that critics who wring their hands over The Death of Cinema and Marvel's Dominance at the Box Office are not only fine with this deadbeat, sitcom-level writing but actively cheer it.


I don't know - the vast majority of mainstream critics love Marvel and love the jokey, stakes free tone of everything (I assume). They cheer it because they genuinely think this is what mainstream cinema should be - sitcom jokes, lots of noise and action, some progressiveness, and little Easter eggs for everyone. Craft and meaning are afterthoughts.

[Pop Trash]

I don't know - the vast majority of mainstream critics love Marvel and love the jokey, stakes free tone of everything (I assume). They cheer it because they genuinely think this is what mainstream cinema should be - sitcom jokes, lots of noise and action, some progressiveness, and little Easter eggs for everyone. Craft and meaning are afterthoughts.

The MCU feels like product. Good product, but product nonetheless. It comes off the conveyor belt at Disney Inc. and is a sturdy thing consumers know what they are getting. They trust in the brand.

Most critics grade summer popcorn movies (and hell, movies in general) in a "is this good? yay / nay? should you see it? yay / nay?" type of deal. Doesn't mean it will wind-up on their top ten list or anything. It has always been this way. It's like Siskel & Ebert giving the latest Steve Martin movie "two thumbs up" in the '80s. Doesn't mean it was even close to being the best movie of that respective year, but Steve Martin was a solid brand you could trust in, so people (inc. me) would go see them and enjoy a three star movie for a few air conditioned hours.

[Grouchy]

The first hour is a lame Disney Kids romcom, placed in Europe and apparently written by people who've never visited a European city. Seriously, tulips and soccer in the Netherlands? London Bridges falling down? A water monster in Venice? I was kinda embarrassed by this movie's lack of interest in its own setting. It's a $200 million example of the Ugly American.
I disagree with most of your assessment but not with this part. The filmmakers completely blew the "Spiderman abroad" high concept.

[Wryan]

Okay, here's my final weird take: Is it just me or does Marvel have a habit of casting male actors whose scenes throw off sexual sparks? Eg:Evans and Stan in all of Cap's movies, Holland and Gyllenhall here. Like, there's a palable chemistry between the leads --- a helluva lot more noticeable than anything between Holland and Zendaya --- and I kept thinking, okay, they should seriously just make out already or somebody needs to cast these two in a "Brokeback" sequel.

Me explaining to MJ that Mysterio is just a replacement mentor figure for me and that there's nothing else between us.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/030/555/spiderman.jpg