Under the Silver Lake (David Robert Mitchell)

[Grouchy]

http://img.goldposter.com/2019/01/under-the-silver-lake_poster_goldposter_com_5.j pg?x-oss-process=image/resize,m_fill,h_1500,w_1062/quality,q_80

[Grouchy]

Well, that was a strange ride. Borrowing liberally from Blue Velvet and Lynch in general, Brian De Palma and even the loose neo-noir of Altman's The Long Goodbye and The Big Lebowski, Mitchell creates an atmospheric thriller which goes off in all sorts of unexpected directions. What anchors the film down is the awesomely perverted character portrayed by Garfield. I'm not saying it works all the time but it's enjoyable as hell.

By the way I didn't realize this is from the guy who made It Follows and when I read "Mitchell" I assumed it was the LGTB director. I spent the whole film thinking "well, this is a weird career move after Shortbus".

[Pop Trash]

I love it. It's a classic case of "certainly not made for everybody, but definitely made for me." Would easily make my top five of 2018, which means it will be my #1 movie of 2019 for awhile.

It's derivative, but also self-aware of what it is cribbing from (hell, the whole elderly songwriter scene is all about how futile it is to be original). I guess some people will knock it for being too similar to Lynch or Pynchon (and dozens of other things) but it worked for me. I also think the main character is supposed to be something of a dipshit.

There's also so many weird 'connect-the-dots' things going on here. One thing I don't see mentioned much is that the main character is into Kurt Cobain. Later we hear songs from REM's "Monster" album which has a song about KC called "Let Me In" made after his death. The character of the 'homeless king' (or whatever his name is) is played by David Yow from The Jesus Lizard. The only band Nirvana released a split 7" record with was... you guessed it... The Jesus Lizard.

I also think David Robert Mitchell has to be influenced and read about the Laurel Canyon musician conspiracy theories. This feels very much like type of movie you would write after reading about that.

[Milky Joe]

There's also so many weird 'connect-the-dots' things going on here.

Sam is the Dog

I don't know if I'd call it a Great Movie, but it sure is fun as hell and yes, totally something written after binging on amphetamines, Pynchon, Kubrick conspiracy theories and Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon. So basically, made directly for me and my friends.

[Ivan Drago]

I keep forgetting this is finally coming out this year. I am BEYOND excited.

[Pop Trash]

Sam is the Dog

I don't know if I'd call it a Great Movie, but it sure is fun as hell and yes, totally something written after binging on amphetamines, Pynchon, Kubrick conspiracy theories and Weird Scenes Inside The Canyon. So basically, made directly for me and my friends.

You mean the dog serial killer? Yeah, I think so too. This fits why he keeps having visions of women literally bark at him.

I'm also glad there are people my age making movies with the same type of rando pop culture shit I grew up with. I had the first issue of "Nintendo Power" with that Legend of Zelda map Sam uses.

It is also of a piece with First Reformed and Burning about obsessed men with too much time on their hands getting entirely lost inside of their own heads. Fitting for the world we are living in. I'd say they all need to get laid, but Sam here has a lot of sex, so you can't exactly call it Incelcore, but it is similar to Burning because both have beautiful women who disappear after potential sex / relationship begins to blossom. Vertigo being the urtext for this type of cinema.

[Ezee E]

Moving this to 2019 since more people will likely see it and discuss there.

Watching it now. It's got something going on... not sure if it's good or bad. But something.

[Ezee E]

A foundation is made for an interesting modern noir in Los Angeles, but ultimately never goes anywhere. It's just sprawling from one thing to another, and starts to get really boring after a hour, except for a piano man that claims to have invented every original tune over the last several decades.

It's disappointing because you can see that there's a talent here.

[Pop Trash]

I watched it again, and while I certainly get this not being everybody's thang, it would easily be shortlisted for top twenty of the decade for me.

[MadMan]

I can't wait to see it when it hits RedBox. I was lucky It Follows even came to my area.

[Dukefrukem]

I can't wait to see it when it hits RedBox. I was lucky It Follows even came to my area.

$5 on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/Under-Silver-Lake-Andrew-Garfield/dp/B07Q2DFCQB/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Under+the+ Silver+Lake&qid=1558273457&s=gateway&sr=8-1

[Irish]

Not worth $5 or 5 minutes.

I spoke too soon about "Glass." This is very definitely the worst film of the year.

[Dukefrukem]

Watching it now...

[Dukefrukem]

Might be the best movie of the year.

[Mal]

It should have been much, much more nutty imo. This just doesn't work for me on any level beyond the cinematography. The commentary fails, and even when its going somewhere it just never completes its thought, so I'm left wondering what was even the point since I didn't enjoy the ride. Garfield was even a bit miscast... like imagine where this could have gone if we had a full-blown stoner type in this part, that could be fun! but nope.

[Ezee E]

It should have been much, much more nutty imo. This just doesn't work for me on any level beyond the cinematography. The commentary fails, and even when its going somewhere it just never completes its thought, so I'm left wondering what was even the point since I didn't enjoy the ride. Garfield was even a bit miscast... like imagine where this could have gone if we had a full-blown stoner type in this part, that could be fun! but nope.

Yep. I was never convinced of him as a stoner. Picturing Jimmi Simpson, who was great in the moments he did have on screen, would've worked much better in my opinion.

Duke, what makes it your fave?

[Dukefrukem]

Loved the Andrew Garfield paranoia and his obsession on connecting the dots to the "messages" that may or may not be there to begin with is really well done. It's a journey from his perspective, down a spiraling rabbit hole that spits you out, piecing together the narratives that unconventionally edited together.

On top of all that there's some excellent horror elements shining through from It Follows; The Shadowy figures on the dark pathway, that early dream sequence on the same pathway. And on top of that there's elements of the different plot driven elements to make the audience uncomfortable. such as the moment when a woman finds out her father was found dead- watching her reaction real time in the middle of a party.

The whole thing is wrapped up in a weird dog killer subplot and larger conspiracy that makes Garfield's experiences confusing to both the audience and the character; like Garfied's expressions when the randomness happens; eg. models just started randomly walking down the street in front of him.

It's like watching a train-wreck with a character that doesn't react like any normal person would; which makes for a super interesting journey.

[Milky Joe]

I don't know why you are all saying Garfield isn't a convincing stoner. The character never smokes any weed, certainly not like Doc Sportello or the Dude.

My girlfriend hated this movie and I can't say I blame her. The female characters are all badly drawn manic pixie stereotypes, and the film doesn't walk the line of portraying the voyeuristic sexism of all the men with any kind of tact whatsoever.

[Grouchy]

The female characters are all badly drawn manic pixie stereotypes, and the film doesn't walk the line of portraying the voyeuristic sexism of all the men with any kind of tact whatsoever.
Heh, I just knew this film would be a trigger for people who feel like "the male gaze" in movies is always wrong, even if it befits a character.

On retrospect, I think this movie is kind of overreaching in its ambition but it has a good bunch of uniquely quirky sequences and I also thought about what Duke said, how having the protagonist be a wandering perv made regular thriller beats play all the more unexpectedly. It's like Blue Velvet if McLachlan's character wasn't a bit of a cypher.

[Milky Joe]

Heh, I just knew this film would be a trigger for people who feel like "the male gaze" in movies is always wrong, even if it befits a character.

:rolleyes: Just because it befits a character doesn't make it well done. Dorothy in BV would be an example of a well-written woman objectified by the male gaze.

In fact, Mulholland Drive does everything this film does but with roughly 1000x the subtlety and taste.

[Mal]

I don't know why you are all saying Garfield isn't a convincing stoner. The character never smokes any weed, certainly not like Doc Sportello or the Dude.

It sure would have been fun if he was an *actual* stoner instead of just a lame unemployed voyeur. Garfield isn't capable of much... even the movie I think he's good in (Silence), he's supposed to be insufferable.

I do agree that the gaze stuff is badly done despite intent.

[Peng]

Conversely, I never really like Garfield much as a performer (thought he was miscast for Silence, although he’s good in The Social Network), but find him really, really great in this.

[Pop Trash]

I don't know why you are all saying Garfield isn't a convincing stoner. The character never smokes any weed, certainly not like Doc Sportello or the Dude.

My girlfriend hated this movie and I can't say I blame her. The female characters are all badly drawn manic pixie stereotypes, and the film doesn't walk the line of portraying the voyeuristic sexism of all the men with any kind of tact whatsoever.

Right. He smokes regular cigarettes. I don't think he's a stoner. If anything he reminds me of people who consume too much coffee and cigarettes and go down caffeine and nicotine fueled rabbit holes. He may have gotten high (?) early on with Riley Keough's character.

i/r/t the male gazey stuff and "women problems" some people have with it, check out this long twitter breakdown ...
https://twitter.com/katiehasty/status/1129119040574672896

[Dukefrukem]

God i hate it when people go on strings of twitter posts like that. There's like a billion other forms of media that would better represent your thoughts. Figure it out.

[Pop Trash]

Conversely, I never really like Garfield much as a performer (thought he was miscast for Silence, although he’s good in The Social Network), but find him really, really great in this.

Me too. Might be his best performance so far, although I like him in The Social Network and maybe slightly less so in Silence. Reminds me of how Fincher cast Ben Affleck in Gone Girl (in part) to dunk on his frat bro public persona. If Garfield is miscast in anything, it is as Peter Parker, but without that we wouldn't have the glorious joke of him getting his hand stuck on a "Spider-Man" comic in this (which I initially thought was cum, which would be even funnier since it echoes back to the Raimi Spider-Man of Parker's transformation = puberty analogy... but upon rewatch, it's actually gum that the kid vandals put on his car door ... still a good gag tho).

[Pop Trash]

God i hate it when people go on strings of twitter posts like that. There's like a billion other forms of media that would better represent your thoughts. Figure it out.

Oh I know. But her thoughts are interesting and that's what counts. Anyway, welcome to the 21st Century Duke! https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

[Irish]

The problem with Hasty's analysis is that it's not well supported by the film. Eg:


As Garfield and director David Robert Mitchell have said in several interviews, it’s a film about how Sam feels. Not what is fact or fiction, villain or savior, but how this lowlife character who expresses entitlement to women, money, and power _feels_.

Notice she references an interview to support her point, not the film itself. (Yeah, it's twitter, but still.)

This was one of the reasons I thought the film was bad --- Mitchell apparently doesn't understand Poe's Law. It's too easy to come to the conclusion that Milky Joe and his girlfriend did, and it shouldn't be.

[Pop Trash]

This was one of the reasons I thought the film was bad --- Mitchell apparently doesn't understand Poe's Law. It's too easy to come to the conclusion that Milky Joe and his girlfriend did, and it shouldn't be.

Oh for fuck's sake. People shouldn't apply Poe's Law to filmmaking or even creative writing. You can't have unreliable narrators, ambiguity, unlikable characters, etc. if your work of creative fiction is THE CREATOR OF THIS WANTS YOU TO FEEL X ABOUT Y SO LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU.

[Irish]

Oh for fuck's sake. People shouldn't apply Poe's Law to filmmaking or even creative writing.

Dude. Poe's Law is media studies 101.

Satire is a tricky balance and there's a line. If you satirize your subject too closely you risk becoming just another example of it ("Starship Troopers," "Hot Fuzz").

"Under the Silver Lake" doesn't even walk up to the line and cross it because it starts on the other side.


You can't have unreliable narrators, ambiguity, unlikable characters, etc. if your work of creative fiction is THE CREATOR OF THIS WANTS YOU TO FEEL X ABOUT Y SO LET ME SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU.

OTOH it's a bad sign when that creator needs to explain their themes after the fact and in detail.

[Grouchy]

I don't understand how would Poe's Law relate to this film. Isn't that about satiric writing? I understand how it can be used for analysis of Starship Troopers or Hot Fuzz because those are satires. This is a weird thriller.

I also find it difficult to read Twitter. It's just deliberately annoying. I'd rather they just linked to the text somewhere else.

[Pop Trash]

I don't understand if Irish thinks Starship Troopers and/or Hot Fuzz are bad because they become the thing they are ostensibly parodying. Personally, I think those movies are great in part because we don't know where the satire begins and the amour fou ends. Is Taxi Driver parodying old western tropes? Well, yes and no. Is Silver Lake a parody of a noir or has it become the thing it's parodying? Is the character Sam objectifying women or is Mitchell? Where does character end and the filmmaker begin? Is Taxi Driver a great film because of or in spite of Martin Scorsese being a cocaine fueled nutjob at the time who later had to be hospitalized?

[Skitch]

I'm on the island with Pop and Duke. This was a damn delight of cinema. I can agree with the critics that the reveal at end was a smidge of a downturn like huh Alrighty then, but imo still didnt ruin the experience.

Duke please tell me you were LOLing like me at the Amazing Spider-Man scene.

At any rate, I enjoyed the mystery, I felt horror, I laughed, I was moved...this was damn good.

[Yxklyx]

I'm with Skitch, Pop and Duke on this one. I love the culture of Southern Cali that it portrays. I can't recall a movie that shows that place as well as this film does.

[Yxklyx]

This is a masterpiece.