Game of Thrones (The Final Season / 8 )

[Spinal]

Yeah, to be honest, I've given up hope of the show ever getting good again. It's basically fan fiction now.

Definitely what I was thinking during the Jaime-Brienne scene. Oy.

[Dukefrukem]

There's still moments of intrigue, as the actual discussion between Tyrion and Varys was interesting--but the instigating idea of telling everyone is a bit too much too quick.

The part that infuriated me was Brienne ugly crying--such a break of her character.

Both correct. And that Tyrion Varys convo 1) was way too long and 2) happened more than once.

Like we get it... you both disagree with what should happen.

[Grouchy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGFHBxfXgAAQxLV.jpg

[Morris Schæffer]

That's Dany. When she gets angry she's not really rational though is she? I dunno, it's not like your point is invalid. It's just that everyone complains about battlefield strategies when we're assuming everyone's supposed to have it all figured out. That'd be like a soccer coach never making the wrong decision.

This is super weird. I'm sure I quoted you Duke, but now it looks all weird on page 10. Now it seems like I quoted Peng except it's a post made by you. what happened?

Apologies.

[Grouchy]

I don't even see that post.

[Morris Schæffer]

I don't even see that post.

Still there, middle of page 10.

[DavidSeven]

I enjoyed this episode a lot more than last week's, but then you start thinking about things. Like Jon giving up Ghost for no apparent reason other than to save on the VFX budget. Like the ludicrousness of Dany immediately rushing into a second battle with zero strategy, because ...there's only two episodes left? Like how easy it would've been to just fly the dragon at an angle higher than 45 degrees to avoid the attacks, especially after the previous episode established how much higher they could go. Like Cersei not killing Tyrion immediately even though she's already committed herself to the 'scorched earth' playbook.

I will say that the ending was effective in establishing some emotional stakes for next week, and Clarke played that moment really well. I'm taking in the rest as silly fan service at this point. There's no reason to believe it's changing course. At least we'll get a lot of Lena Headey doing Cersei things.

[Ezee E]

Makes you wonder how terrible their Star Wars TV show is going to be...

[Dukefrukem]

This is super weird. I'm sure I quoted you Duke, but now it looks all weird on page 10. Now it seems like I quoted Peng except it's a post made by you. what happened?

Apologies.

Wait, what happened here.... I never said that.... Is the database messed up? I posted what it shows me responding to Peng...

I wonder if someone edited a post by accident instead of quoting?

[Ezee E]

Is there a reason that this season was rushed to get to an ending? It's HBO's biggest show, so I figured they would've been find if it went a bit longer, unless they were fearful they couldn't keep the cast?

For reasons already listed, if this show had seven episodes all leading to the Battle of Winterfell to END the season, and then all of next season to siege King's Landing, the rushing issues could've been addressed.

I'm enjoying it and all, and I think the emotions at the wall of the suddenly barren King's Landing worked, but it's all on the actors that are making this succeed right now.

[Dukefrukem]

Is there a reason that this season was rushed to get to an ending? It's HBO's biggest show, so I figured they would've been find if it went a bit longer, unless they were fearful they couldn't keep the cast?



Great question (https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/09/game-thrones-author-george-rr-martin-doesnt-think-final-season-yet-9135857/). I bet TW doesn't see any benefit going any longer and they are tired of spending $100 million on 8 episodes?

[Ezee E]

Great question (https://metro.co.uk/2019/04/09/game-thrones-author-george-rr-martin-doesnt-think-final-season-yet-9135857/). I bet TW doesn't see any benefit going any longer and they are tired of spending $100 million on 8 episodes?

HBO will need a new "staple show" is the only thing I can think of. Perhaps it'll be Watchmen... I feel like the prequel is just going to be a failed attempt and only last 2-3 years.

[Irish]

Is there a reason that this season was rushed to get to an ending? It's HBO's biggest show, so I figured they would've been find if it went a bit longer, unless they were fearful they couldn't keep the cast?

Cast salaries + the ATT merger.

The main cast is underpaid relative to the show's popularity. Henley, Harrington, Clarke, and Coster-Waldau each make $500k per episode. Turner and Williams $150k per. (To put that in perspective, toward the end of "Friends," each of the 6 member main cast made $1 million per episode for 24 episodes, and that was 20+ years ago.)

Everybody signed a 5 year contract in 2014. If they went ahead and extended the show for additional seasons, the network would want another multi-year commitment and the cast would want huge increases.

When the entertainment press crows about how GoT spends $10 million an episode, they never mention that a third to half of that is going (or would be going) to cast salaries.

This is the same reason every popular show gets cancelled if it goes on long enough. When it times come to negotiate new contracts, the numbers don't work out.

[Peng]

I seem to remember HBO really wants to continue it, even going hint-hint publicly that it’s up to D&D but they could go on longer, but D&D wants this done the way we are seeing now (imo the abbreviated seasons, so they having less work per one’s season’s same salary, and general sense of cramming pace really do feel like they want this finished already).

[Spinal]

Hey, Irish. I can now say without hesitation that you're a fucking dick. I mean, this is news to no one, but thanks for giving me no guilt about saying it.

[Irish]

Hey, Irish. I can now say without hesitation that you're a fucking dick. I mean, this is news to no one, but thanks for giving me no guilt about saying it.

I didn't realize you felt that passionately about cast salaries, Spinal.

ETA: This isn't gonna lead to another conversation about your mother, is it?

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh where did that come from?

[StuSmallz]

I'm still waiting for them to announce a one season, one-off prequel series about Robert's Rebellion, dammit.

[Ezee E]

https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59946301_10157407572919171_561 5390334717526016_n.jpg?_nc_cat =105&_nc_ht=scontent.fapa1-2.fna&oh=e0606786b2a8487e5eba98dcb61 a6a51&oe=5D2E2FC7

[Peng]

Not inaccurate, although I would say 6> 5

[Morris Schæffer]

Wait, what happened here.... I never said that.... Is the database messed up? I posted what it shows me responding to Peng...

I wonder if someone edited a post by accident instead of quoting?

I'm not sure. I don't even know what I did to achieve that.

[[ETM]]

This last episode may have finally jumped the shark for me. Some of the dumbest shit the show has pulled, only now basically there's no reason left to continue watching. Every time something is about to go down, you think "now, what's the most GoT thing they could do here?" and they do it. Every time. Yuck.

[amberlita]

;604392']This last episode may have finally jumped the shark for me. Some of the dumbest shit the show has pulled, only now basically there's no reason left to continue watching. Every time something is about to go down, you think "now, what's the most GoT thing they could do here?" and they do it. Every time. Yuck.

I'm definitely annoyed with many of the decisions the writers have made this (and last) season, but I have watched this show live from the very first episode and have loved it. I *still* love watching the episodes because the actors are fantastic, the production cinematic, and so on. I really don't want to spend the final episodes of this great show just full on hating it. I'll still critique its weaknesses as a TV show but I've resolved myself to mostly letting it go. I think someone mentioned earlier that this makes them more likely to read the books and I agree - assuming they actually get written. The show is what it is now and I want to enjoy it as much as I can for as little as I have left of it.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm definitely annoyed with many of the decisions the writers have made this (and last) season, but I have watched this show live from the very first episode and have loved it. I *still* love watching the episodes because the actors are fantastic, the production cinematic, and so on. I really don't want to spend the final episodes of this great show just full on hating it. I'll still critique its weaknesses as a TV show but I've resolved myself to mostly letting it go. I think someone mentioned earlier that this makes them more likely to read the books and I agree - assuming they actually get written. The show is what it is now and I want to enjoy it as much as I can for as little as I have left of it.

I don't recall any decisive decisions last season. In fact, I remember it being pretty great. What bothered you?

But yes- this is shaping up to be a worse ending than Sopranos.

[amberlita]

I don't recall any decisive decisions last season. In fact, I remember it being pretty great. What bothered you?

But yes- this is shaping up to be a worse ending than Sopranos.

I'm primarily thinking of the way they tanked the character of Tyrion, turning him into an ineffective and foolish advisor, epitomized by the decision to send a gang north of the wall to capture a wight. If I step back, that episode was probably the first time I started to deconstruct the logic of the episode and found it utterly ridiculous, even though I enjoyed the hell out of watching it. It was a monumentally stupid decision in the first place, then compounded by miraculous time jumps from Gendry pounding the snow at record speed back to the Wall to get Dany to save them all. Jon's impressive ability to avoid dying of hypothermia on his ride back to the Wall. Then the Night King eventually taking down said Wall with Zogon (what we named the zombie dragon), which makes me wonder how the hell he was planning to take it down on his march there considering he didn't get that weapon till the last minute.

Anyway, it's those caliber of questions I am asking myself after each episode now and it feels like it started there. Otherwise I agree - lots of stuff to love in that season.

[Peng]

I still enjoyed both seasons, but season 7 is the worst season of the show so far (in retrospect “Beyond the Wall” was the first crack of what Season 8 keeps widening), with season 8 looking to surpass it. But the memes have been so amazing that I don’t mind it much, looking forward to what unintentionally funny stuff they can provide for us.

[Dukefrukem]

Good point on the Night King's plan to take down the wall. If they hadn't had a zombie dragon, wtf would they have done? All ran through that tiny tunnel at the same time? ha!

[bac0n]

Yeah, this season and last has been characterized by tactical decisions on the part of the characters designed not to maximize the chance of victory, but to deliver epic moments.

Exhibit One: Hey, lets venture right into wight territory so we can bring one to show Cersei who we know is going to fuck us over making it all for nothing.

Exhibit Two: Lets take the best horsemen in the world and run them straight at the approaching army to be killed rather then having them ride around and get them from the flank, or better yet take out the white walkers who we know are susceptible to dragonglass and will take out much of the army as they are destroyed.

Exhibit Three: we know the golden company are 20000 strong, so lets take a shitton of our best boats to be ambushed by them.

I wonder what tactical idiocy Jon Snow and company will have for us on Sunday.

[Peng]

I wonder what tactical idiocy Jon Snow and company will have for us on Sunday.

Let's hope it's not memory loss because that card was already played by D&D for Cersei and Dany.

Cersei:

https://i.redd.it/kkv4lj4bktw21.jpg

Dany:

1125580781760524288




At this point they shouldn't do the Insides the Episode thing after anymore. Any benefit of the doubt I might give them vanishes with a glimpse into their writing. https://awardswatch.com/forums/images/smilies/smileys/lol.gif

[Ezee E]

lol at that Iron Fleet video.

Nice observation of the "cinematic" moments being given a preference over logical scenarios. I still think this just goes into being rushed with two 10-episode seasons being squished into essentially 1.25 seasons.

I just hope CleganeBowl isn't eyeroll worthy as that's really the only checklist item left remaining for GoT fans, right?

And I'll absolutely be checking out the books. I figure I'll even be caught up by the time they get released.

[Grouchy]

I just hope CleganeBowl isn't eyeroll worthy as that's really the only checklist item left remaining for GoT fans, right?
Pretty much, yeah. Although I'm more curious about Cersei's fate - at least that's gotta be good and epic.

[Gizmo]

Pretty much, yeah. Although I'm more curious about Cersei's fate - at least that's gotta be good and epic.

complications from childbirth, i'd imagine. Occurs off-screen.

[Ezee E]

complications from childbirth, i'd imagine. Occurs off-screen.

No way that's how she dies.

[Irish]

complications from childbirth, i'd imagine. Occurs off-screen.

Plot twist: The baby is a dragon/human hybrid, first of its kind.



https://i.imgur.com/7V9K2zb.jpg

[Morris Schæffer]

Plot twist: The baby is a dragon/human hybrid, first of its kind.



https://i.imgur.com/7V9K2zb.jpg



80's Tv show V?

[Scar]

80's Tv show V?

Yes.

[Dukefrukem]

Danny vs Jon

Clearly Jon is winning this.

[Irish]

So the deadliest foe in Westeros is ... the ceiling?

[Wryan]

Well she sure as shit couldn't have stayed in the only high-rise tower left standing for very long. Structures were gettin' fire-katana sliced left and right.

[Wryan]

also, lol at Qyburn getting catapulted into a fucking wall.

[Grouchy]

Cersei's fate - at least that's gotta be good and epic.

So the deadliest foe in Westeros is ... the ceiling?

We got no money for elephants because we spent it all on an hour and a half of buildings falling down at the expense of every bit of character development the show's ever done.

[Peng]

Well there was a lot of dumb (the Jaime back-and-forth), but also a lot of good ol' Sapochnik spectacle directing in sunlight. So I quite enjoyed it more than the last two episodes.

[Irish]

Show of hands: Who's looking forward to Benioff & Weiss's "Star Wars" trilogy? :D

[Ezee E]

Storyline be damned, I was white knuckled the whole episode. Sapochnik directed the hell out of what will probably be the biggest spectacle on TV for quite some time.

CleganeBowl worked for me. No added stakes, just brother versus brother, and that's exactly what it needed to be. Perhaps not as grandiose as I hoped it could've been, but a fitting end.

Euron... a terrible villain and a wasted TV character from beginning to end.

Not really sure how they'll end it next week.

[Peng]

Also props to Emilia Clarke for acting the hell out of that material.

[Peng]

1127755085524684801

I agree with this. The general broad storyline in the last two seasons aren't bad, but more true to the books, and what's worse is they compress the hell out of it.



Also, let the memes begin...

1126561363776684034

[amberlita]

Storyline be damned, I was white knuckled the whole episode. Sapochnik directed the hell out of what will probably be the biggest spectacle on TV for quite some time.

Yeah I'm trying to step back from my frustrations and appreciate just how remarkable it is that we have this show at all. It is gripping television and the production is really spectacular. It didn't seem possible to one-up what seemed to be the battle to end all battles in episode 3, but they certainly found a way to do it.

That said...I am still frustrated! I can't fault the show for taking Dany's character in this direction. The writers (and GRRM) are free to make whatever decisions they want and I either like or don't like their choices. But I *can* fault them for what I feel like was a hastily put together heel turn for Dany. When you add it all up, sure you can kind of understand that she's pissed and might lash out but this is more than that. She ceased to be a human being and turned into a monster. Perhaps if we'd had a full 10 episode season to watch her devolve it would've felt less random.

Also: remember that episode when we were all pissed that nobody important died? :D Those were the days.

[DavidSeven]

Are we anywhere different from where we were when Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor? I thought we did the “Mad Queen” thing already. Whatever happens in the finale feels like it could’ve happened at the end of Season 6, with Cersei being overthrown in the place of Dany. At least then we would’ve had a villain we understood and actually hated, and this whole thing wouldn’t feel like a pointless, rushed retread of a storyline that was already done well in the past.

It wouldn’t surprise me that Dany was intended to go mad all along, but then why tell the same story with Cersei two seasons ago? I don’t know...given that we’ve already gone there, burning down extras for 90 minutes doesn’t strike me as being as interesting as character interplay or double crosses or even predictable stuff that actually delivers catharsis. Heck, I would’ve even taken some good ol’ magic.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't recall there being much parallels with what Cersei did versus what Dany is doing with the dragons and innocent people. Sure Cersei blew up a bunch of innocents, but it was a survival tactic rather than just killing out of rage.

[Wryan]

I have to say, tho the writing has gotten increasingly strained this and last season, the actors have worked the hell out of what they got. I didn't really care for Clark's acting throughout much of this show in the early going, but she's been really good here at the end of the show.

[Peng]

I wonder a bit if some of Clarke's acting hiccups early on (after Season 1) may be due to her double brain aneurysms that are just revealed? If I remember correctly the timeline would be around her doing season 2, which seems to fit.

[Grouchy]

I don't recall there being much parallels with what Cersei did versus what Dany is doing with the dragons and innocent people. Sure Cersei blew up a bunch of innocents, but it was a survival tactic rather than just killing out of rage.
Same here. People talking about paralells with Cersei completely lost me - she just slaughtered her enemies. Dany could have done the same but instead she... mysteriously turned mass murderer, I guess? Maybe "The Bells" drove her crazy or something.

[Dukefrukem]

100% dead next episode: Tyrion, Dany, Grey Worm

75% dead: Davos

25% dead: Arya

10% dead: Jon, Brianne

0% dead: Sansa, Bran, Sam,

[Irish]

I didn't understand why they gave Lena Headey nothing to do this season. She was absent from two episodes and her scenes in others were trivial. All she did during this one was stand by the window.

But then again who knows? The writing is so gimmicky now, maybe Cersei and Jaime aren't dead. (We never saw their bodies in the rubble, etc.)

[Grouchy]

That's also true. As a huge Cersei fan this season is all the more disappointing. Those shots of her staring, Daenerys staring, everybody staring got old real quick.

[DavidSeven]

Same here. People talking about paralells with Cersei completely lost me - she just slaughtered her enemies. Dany could have done the same but instead she... mysteriously turned mass murderer, I guess? Maybe "The Bells" drove her crazy or something.

That’s sort of my point. They already went the “Mad Queen” route with Cersei, but did it with enough complexity to make her an interesting super villain. The finale will feature our heroes dealing with the consequences of a new queen who’s gone too far but who feels justified in her own mind. They could’ve ended the series with Cersei playing the same role; instead, we have a less convincing version in Dany.

Dany’s descent into madness may have been foreshadowed, but it offers nothing new in how it was executed and is just a poor man’s version of a scenario they set up two years ago with a different character.

[Grouchy]

Dany’s descent into madness may have been foreshadowed, but it offers nothing new in how it was executed and is just a poor man’s version of a scenario they set up two years ago with a different character.
Yeah, it was foreshadowed but poorly done. Everyone around her is like "she's going crazy" for no reason - she's not acting crazy at all until she goes completely off the hook in last night's episode.

[Ezee E]

I mean, Dany's been prone for violence since she started having power, but the urge to kill civilians kind of came out of nowhere. This could've easily been addressed with some simple development if the writing allowed for it, but nope.

Even as simple as a meeting at King's Landing where she sees civilians would stick by their current Queen, show no respect for outsiders, etc... Along with everyone that has more or less betrayed her this season. But hey, we've beaten that dead horse.

I'm just glad we got some good sequences out of it last night.

And Lena Headey is thrown $100 bills outside those windows. 3-4 million to look out a window, with maybe three scenes of actual acting (which were all well done btw). She'll take it!

[Scar]

Clegane Bowl felt like it was straight out of Dark Souls III.

And that’s quite the compliment.

[Scar]

I mean, Dany's been prone for violence since she started having power, but the urge to kill civilians kind of came out of nowhere. This could've easily been addressed with some simple development if the writing allowed for it, but nope.

Even as simple as a meeting at King's Landing where she sees civilians would stick by their current Queen, show no respect for outsiders, etc... Along with everyone that has more or less betrayed her this season. But hey, we've beaten that dead horse.

I'm just glad we got some good sequences out of it last night.

And Lena Headey is thrown $100 bills outside those windows. 3-4 million to look out a window, with maybe three scenes of actual acting (which were all well done btw). She'll take it!


In prior seasons, Dany has threatened to wipe cities completely off the earth, which her advisors than told her that she sounded too much like her father and urged restraint.

[Ezee E]

In prior seasons, Dany has threatened to wipe cities completely off the earth, which her advisors than told her that she sounded too much like her father and urged restraint.

Exactly. Losing Jorah might've the worst thing that happened to her. I don't think Tyrion's advice ever worked in her advantage once.

[Morris Schæffer]

Sandor looking straight at Gregor, oblivious to Cersei walking past him. What a moment. For some reason I didn't consider the possibility that the mountain might lose his helmet and we'd see the monster underneath. That whole fight was frightening, with echoes of the battle in season 4 in terms of unbearable intensity.

Isn't there a rule in the dragon world which states that dragons can't breath fire ad infinitum, that they need time to recharge? Or is that a videogame trope?

What's with Drogon's fire being explosive in nature? I can understand there is munition in some places, but the towers had harpoons and the huge gate behind the golden fleet was...just a huge gate. Why did it blow up? Oh right, beause it looks exploderiffic!

I was reminded of:


https://youtu.be/cQyePjiaCrM

[Grouchy]

In prior seasons, Dany has threatened to wipe cities completely off the earth, which her advisors than told her that she sounded too much like her father and urged restraint.
Here's my point. Every indication that Dany might be going crazy comes from dialogue, either hers or other characters - until Sunday night's travesty of an episode she never, ever did something unreasonable. Violent? Well, sure, but it's a violent world - but she never killed people without purpose. It seems like a rather stupid way to show a character's descent into madness if you have to use others to talk about it while his personality goes from 0 to 11.

[bac0n]

Yeah, I agree that Dany's turn seems rushed and forced. It's like the writers consulted George Lucas.

[Scar]

I think we can all agree that the show needed a few more episodes, if not another season.

[Peng]

lmao at the timing of this announcement:

1128319723513503744

[Peng]

"Sorry for rushing these, guys, but fuck it it's Star Wars we're outta here!!"


EDIT: After searching to verify if the tweet is true (it is), I come across this tidbit which somehow isn't that much different from my imaginary sentence above https://awardswatch.com/forums/images/smilies/smileys/lol.gif : "Benioff and Weiss said they planned to “get started” on their Star Wars project “as soon as the final season of Game of Thrones is complete,” which means the end of May."

[[ETM]]

This episode was so insultingly dumb that the previous one now seems like a distant, pleasant memory. Looking forward to be rid of this misery for good next week.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[DavidSeven]

Guessing Benioff and Weiss aren't going to get funding for any indie passion projects any time soon...

1127775511432847360

[Ezee E]

Guessing Benioff and Weiss aren't going to get funding for any indie passion projects any time soon...

1127775511432847360

Ha, she backpedaled a bit after that tweet.

[Dukefrukem]

Producing movies at 24, she can fuck right off with her opinions.

[Peng]

Age is a weird qualification to dismiss her (not that controversial) GoT opinion.

[DavidSeven]

Especially when she’s someone who’s exclusively been producing really interesting projects and working with great filmmakers for the better part of the last decade.

[Ezee E]

Especially when she’s someone who’s exclusively been producing really interesting projects and working with great filmmakers for the better part of the last decade.

She did produce Downsizing though...

[DavidSeven]

She did produce Downsizing though...

Didn’t see that one, but, I mean, that’s Alexander Payne movie starring Matt Damon, Christoph Waltz and Kristin Wiig. I think most would’ve expected that to work just based on the talent.

[Ezee E]

Didn’t see that one, but, I mean, that’s Alexander Payne movie starring Matt Damon, Christoph Waltz and Kristin Wiig. I think most would’ve expected that to work just based on the talent.

I'm joking of course.

But quite the bummer that the rushed season has obviously hurt the show's character development despite the setpieces we've been given, and in a way, have been wanting.

[Irish]

Especially when she’s someone who’s exclusively been producing really interesting projects and working with great filmmakers for the better part of the last decade.

She's a literal scion who bought her way into the industry. It doesn't take talent to throw money at Paul Thomas Anderson or Darren Aronofsky and let them do whatever they want.

I don't think much of her as a producer or CEO. Annapurna has no editorial voice and Ellison hasn't done a good job of differentiating the brand in the marketplace, especially compared to her immediate competitors like A24 or Blumhouse.

[PURPLE]

For someone who hasn’t differentiated her brand, it sure seems like she has differentiated her brand enough for you!

That being said, I am dismissing her Tweet not on account of her age or background or gender but because it’s on Twitter. After all, the biggest problem with the show is that it used to consist of an entire novel’s worth of ideas condensed into one season, and now it consists of an entire Tweet’s worth of ideas condensed into one season. They should have at least looked into an Instagram caption or something with some real room for nuance.

[Dukefrukem]

She's a literal scion who bought her way into the industry. It doesn't take talent to throw money at Paul Thomas Anderson or Darren Aronofsky and let them do whatever they want.

This was the root of my post. Shes the daughter of the third richest person in America, woke up one day and decided to be a Hollywood producer. She's the least qualified subject matter expert I would turn to for thoughts on a creative narrative. Everyone on this forum is more qualified than her.

[Ezee E]

This was the root of my post. Shes the daughter of the third richest person in America, woke up one day and decided to be a Hollywood producer. She's the least qualified subject matter expert I would turn to for thoughts on a creative narrative. Everyone on this forum is more qualified than her.

Except for goddamn Lazlo.

[Lazlo]

Except for goddamn Lazlo.

https://media.giphy.com/media/K1F1Pay1OWG6Q/giphy.gif

[DavidSeven]

I linked her Tweet, not because she's any sort of expert on the matter, but because she's a fairly well-known and influential person in the industry who blasted the GoT showrunners by name. That is not the sort of thing you see every day. And, as Peng mentioned, it's not like she stating anything that's controversial. These guys are getting pummeled in every corner of the internet for these last 2-3 episodes.

[Ezee E]

https://media.giphy.com/media/K1F1Pay1OWG6Q/giphy.gif

Hope you took it as a joke!

[Scar]

Maybe I’ve watched each season a few too many times, but her willingness to wipe out cities has been around for a long time. The show needed an additional episode to highlight her madness, but people being completely blindsided by her going full crazy haven’t been paying attention and have been blinded by their love for the character.

[Peng]

The “how” has been shoddy that it calls the “what” as questionable. It’s not the first time the show has pulled a rug under the audience towards a feel-bad big incident, but the events surrounding those feel logical and strongly written in detail whereas this... doesn’t (and I’m understating it big time). It feels ridiculous in the moment so that’s why people reject it, not because it exists.

[amberlita]

Maybe I’ve watched each season a few too many times, but her willingness to wipe out cities has been around for a long time. The show needed an additional episode to highlight her madness, but people being completely blindsided by her going full crazy haven’t been paying attention and have been blinded by their love for the character.

I haven't rewatched any of the seasons, but my impression is that she was willing to wipe out cities when she thought it was necessary to conquer them. That wasn't the case here. She won. Then she systematically destroyed the city for no good reason (the idea of "ruling by fear" doesn't wash with me because she knows full well it isn't necessary to kill everyone to accomplish this. When she toasted the two Tarly's last season while a few dozen of their men watched, all of them bent the knee immediately after they saw what she was capable of).

If she had done something that played to her baser instincts, like letting a few thousand innocents die in collateral damage as she thought it necessary to take down the Red Keep, that would have been a question of judgement, not of her mental state. And it would have made people consider trying to remove her from the Throne. But that's not what the writers needed. They needed a good reason to kill Dany in the final episode, and anything other than the most extreme war crime wouldn't have been sufficient justification.

[DavidSeven]

Yeah, the prior instances in which she was willing to kill innocents always seemed tethered to some larger strategy or at least an element of closely woven retribution. Setting fire to a bunch of low-born commoners really serves no function whatsoever. She had already won the throne, and she should know Cersei doesn't care about the people she's burning alive. I could be wrong, but I don't think there's anything in the show that suggests that she would indiscriminately slaughter thousands of people by simply going "mad". She might do something like this to send a message or to punish the allies of her enemies, but not just because a light went off and she went berserk.

[Scar]

One part that immediately springs to mind is from season 2, when she was not allowed access to the city in the desert. She proclaimed that once her dragons have grown, she will return to the cities that have wronged her and destroy their armies and their cities.

[Ezee E]

Let's face it. Thrones got to the level that there was really no way to please the audiences. It may have a Sopranos-like effect where in a few years, it gets more appreciated.

I feel like the closest any final season got to being widely approved was Breaking Bad.

Sopranos, Oz, The Wire, Seinfeld... all accused of having pretty bad final seasons.

[Peng]

But those are divisive, and mostly for the very end itself, not plain bad in a simple scene-by-scene writing basis on the way there like this. It’s bashed mostly for the execution of their ending’s choices, not for the choices themselves like those shows.

[Ezee E]

But those are divisive, and mostly for the very end itself, not plain bad in a simple scene-by-scene writing basis on the way there like this. It’s bashed mostly for the execution of their ending’s choices, not for the choices themselves like those shows.

The Wire was ridiculed pretty hard for everything in its last season from what i remember. The "serial killer" subplot being criticized especially as being something that the show wouldn't normally have in its first seasons. I think some of the journalist stuff was looked down upon too as being too on the nose.

[Lazlo]

Hope you took it as a joke!

Oh, yeah, just was like, didn't expect to get brought up in this conversation, haha!

[Grouchy]

Maybe I’ve watched each season a few too many times, but her willingness to wipe out cities has been around for a long time. The show needed an additional episode to highlight her madness, but people being completely blindsided by her going full crazy haven’t been paying attention and have been blinded by their love for the character.
The key part is the one I just bolded. I have no particular love for the character, no more than for other characters (and I like Cersei a lot better from a writing and acting point of view) but there is no natural progression to her madness, we're just supposed to buy it on account of her mad close-ups and what we know of her family. She's a just ruler until she becomes a crazed psychopath. Hell, Jon Snow and Arya have done more fucked up shit than her.

[Grouchy]

These guys are getting pummeled in every corner of the internet for these last 2-3 episodes.
This is definitively too much. I hate this season as much as the next discerning fan but to spit out hate against people because they didn't close a show in a satisfactory manner is a worrying phenomenon. And to see it coming from colleagues (like that Megan Ellison tweet) is frankly disgusting.

I know they win a lot of money but none deserves personal attacks for writing fiction badly. Come on.

[Grouchy]

An idea that would make her descent into madness more believable:

https://previews.dropbox.com/p/thumb/AAbox6cV6T_8KcQnTobfZy6CXNdVKF g7Rq6bdTheSnkdRVGiqPlg31elYtSv NkqqrU_sX_X5WgfIf9c-IGhLoCNN-7KdhqtA0F81hNLm8GQlY9s8d9MPNIt Kinqkrwqu9JZzopQNk7ryzLW_zchCf CR2beNdt8vyuhcSVbRiLr1HAd0pNj5 qtCaF2NzopZJPuVaTqCOWaNdBTOhDi P9DUVna9NWb7RH4FUbB47-ZILKtUclez9ff8tU8eaRJr8qj9m_0s IoNOJI6jhdiVmg7_0DVxsayG9QU8_X cb-y9zP8O4u5CG5ZBoYr3G_y5ik506olM S9ieQ52CKker6-zbVbQF/p.jpeg?fv_content=true&size_mode=5

[Grouchy]

The Wire was ridiculed pretty hard for everything in its last season from what i remember. The "serial killer" subplot being criticized especially as being something that the show wouldn't normally have in its first seasons. I think some of the journalist stuff was looked down upon too as being too on the nose.
I watched The Wire long after it originally aired and I had no problem with either of those things, for what it's worth.

[Ezee E]

I watched The Wire long after it originally aired and I had no problem with either of those things, for what it's worth.

Yeah, in retrospect, I don't have a problem with it either. It came up mostly as discussion week between week.

I was also thinking about this series and how it spanned across books.

Season 1 = Book 1
Season 2 = Book 2 and some of Book 3
Season 3 = Book 3 (and still not all of it)
Season 4 = Book 3, 4+5
Season 5 = Book 4+5
Season 6 = Book 4+5+6

Guessing -
Season 7 = Book 6 (?)
Season 8 eps 1-3 = Book 6
Season 8 eps 4-6 = Book 7

All of Book 7 in 3 episodes, as I would see it.

[Peng]

I’m trying to imagine how thick the second half of Episode 4 would be in book form. 200+? 300+? Half a book?

[Grouchy]

Yeah, in retrospect, I don't have a problem with it either. It came up mostly as discussion week between week.

I was also thinking about this series and how it spanned across books.

Season 1 = Book 1
Season 2 = Book 2 and some of Book 3
Season 3 = Book 3 (and still not all of it)
Season 4 = Book 3, 4+5
Season 5 = Book 4+5
Season 6 = Book 4+5+6

Guessing -
Season 7 = Book 6 (?)
Season 8 eps 1-3 = Book 6
Season 8 eps 4-6 = Book 7

All of Book 7 in 3 episodes, as I would see it.
As I read through the books, I've become seriously obsessed with this line of thinking and how would it be possible to adapt it faithfully as a TV show. The trick the writers pulled was to push all storylines leading to the Red Wedding forward in the third season and then to move a little into the fourth book for the fourth season, and also to be able to use that massacre for the finale. In the books the Red and Purple Weddings happen almost simultaneously. Then they chose the healthier route of just departing from the books, because there are many storylines (Dorne, Greyjoy, most of Jaime, Tyrion and Brienne) completely absent from seasons 5 and 6.

My solution would be to do Season 1 and 2 pretty much exactly as they are, then have Season 3 be the third book with sixteen episodes and a massive, epic, unfilmable 20 episode season combining Book 4 and 5.

[Ezee E]

I'm just about to get into Book 4/5.

The last few hundred pages of Book 3 would've been pretty great to read without knowing what was going on. Heck, it's great to read knowing what's coming in. Kings are killed left and right. I think the show did a pretty damn good job separating the weddings.

[Gizmo]

Don't know if you've all seen this one or not, but I think he roughly hits the nail on the head for me on this past episode. I also agree that I feel the biggest writing issue is the lack of actual character moments and lines (GRRM owns these characters, while D&D are borrowing them and doing their best now).


https://youtu.be/2mlNyqhnc1M

[Grouchy]

That video is correct but I love how every opinion ends with "the books will do a better job with it" when GRRM already has a hard time finishing them without the added pressure.

[Dukefrukem]

Well that's one way to end a series.

So the wall is back I guess? And why do they need a night-watch anymore exactly? Or was that just an excuse for Jon to live with the Wildlings?

The most surprising thing about this episode

The West World Season 3 teaser. WOW!

[Irish]

THE FEELGOOD ENDING OF THE YEAR!

And I feel pretty good.

Fan-servicey to the point of fan fiction. This was an 80 minute epilogue with little drama. But I guess we finally know why Bran hung around for so long!

Best moment was Brianne writing Jaime's story, the shot of a pen nib coming down on a blank page.

Worst moment was Sam presenting Tyrion with the book. "SEE? IT'S OUR STORY. I WANTED TO CALL IT 'GAME OF THRONES' BUT MAESTER GEORGE SAID NO."

At least Jon finally pet his goddamn dog!

Also... ARYA LITERALLY SAILS OFF INTO THE SUNSET LOL.

[Wryan]

Decent ending. Not what I would have predicted, but I think they explained their reasons fairly well. Not shocked to see someone try the "but what if we invented democracy?" angle.

If anything, this last season really shows how easy it is to rush thru important development, and how poorer the work is for it overall. Let's just have character A kill character B and then jump right past the aftermath, showing nothing of the immediate response that surely would have been fairly dramatic for all concerned. That was a huge wut.

Lots of highs, some definitive lows. Overall, I think the show is a fun piece of work.

[Ezee E]

-It worked as a finale.
-Would have liked to have seen how Gray Worm would've been convinced to not just kill his two prisoners. There were no repercussions and no one to answer to. Would've also been curious as to what the remaining citizens of King's Landing would've had to say, but not enough time for that.
-Arya's resolution is the best. Isn't this world considered to be flat? I suppose she could discover it being round.
-Gray Worm is totally taming the dragon and coming back.
-Dorne and the Greyjoys will be the first problems for Bran's reign.

Kind of boring, but compared to what I thought we were going to get, I was pretty surprised. It was all fitting for the series.

[Grouchy]

Yeah, whatever.

If I was HBO I'd be busy writing the Magallanes spin-off with Arya.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, whatever.

If I was HBO I'd be busy writing the Magallanes spin-off with Arya.

As I understand it, it's some prequel? Which I think is kind of a silly idea.

[bac0n]

I dunno, but I'd watch a spin-off consisting entirely of Bronn and Davos bickering on the high council while Sam tries in vain to smooth things over and Brienne just rolls her eyes the entire time.

[Peng]

Not too bad considering some of the writing in the past two episodes, and if you come to term with the fact that after the third episode this season will be going through a Cliff's Notes version of the show at warped speed (still, Jon killing Dany before the first half is even over almost had me cackle). Even then, something beggars belief in that context (rushing past all aftermath, then resolving all series/character conflicts within one monologue within one small group meeting?). The last Stark montage is very nice and has me thinking how the Stark kids are the least affected by the last two seasons. Poor Dany though, her arc this year needs like one more full season to do it justice, and just as Clarke was giving her series best acting too.

Congrats D&D for finishing this in record time for that dreamier project. Let's just hope no one give them a small, rich country to rule or something while they're working on like the second part of their Star Wars trilogy though.

[DavidSeven]

In broad strokes, I like how the story ended. It was always about the Starks. It was easy to lose some sight of that as other characters got elevated and grew prominent. But in the end, it was the story of a single family that was the life blood of this entire universe, and of four children who endured and persevered through unthinkable tragedy.

In outline form, I think it’s a good story. They botched the granular details (that “town hall” was a farce), ruined Dany, and proved the white walkers to be almost entirely pointless. But at least the ending didn’t completely ruin the entire series, which means they exceeded my (very low) expectations going into the last episode.

[Peng]

Starbucks and water bottle... maybe west of Westeros is Westworld??

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6_dxBwUIAALXhD.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6_dxB0U8AAptev.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

I'm surprised you guys enjoyed this; or tolerated this finale. The biggest drama point in the season was handled completely off screen, my biggest pet peeve in all of writing. Really would have loved to see Jon face Grey Worm after he did the deed.

[Ezee E]

I'm surprised you guys enjoyed this; or tolerated this finale. The biggest drama point in the season was handled completely off screen, my biggest pet peeve in all of writing. Really would have loved to see Jon face Grey Worm after he did the deed.

For sure.

Turns out that the island the Unsullied are going to apparently have flesh-eating butterflies. They won't stay there too long.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh what island was that? Was I supposed to know that location?

[Ezee E]

Yeh what island was that? Was I supposed to know that location?

I believe the only reference in the show may be that it was the place that Missandei and Grey Worm said they'd go to after the White Walker battle. Other than that, that's all.

[Dukefrukem]

Not inaccurate.

1130344438423797760

[Ezee E]

Perhaps he saw the fan predictions and saw that making it through all of Season 8 is pretty much a miracle.

[Grouchy]

Yeh what island was that? Was I supposed to know that location?Naath and yeah, in the books only the natives can live there.

It's still a weak episode but I don't know... I think the fates of most characters were satisfactory.

[Ezee E]

Naath and yeah, in the books only the natives can live there.

It's still a weak episode but I don't know... I think the fates of most characters were satisfactory.

As I think on it more, the Gray Worm release of Snow/Tyrion is certainly the worst thing about the episode. I think I appreciate the episode for its montage at the end, and at least wrapping up the final fates of the characters which mostly work, even if it's pretty dang close to a black screen with white text.

Did the Dothraki also get on board with the Unsullied or did they go do their own thing?

[Yxklyx]

I mean, Dany's been prone for violence since she started having power, but the urge to kill civilians kind of came out of nowhere. This could've easily been addressed with some simple development if the writing allowed for it, but nope. ...

Though not well shown, I thought Dany just developed some bloodlust (not madness). She had just killed hundreds of people on the ships and she found that she liked it. She needed to take her revenge too for deaths close to her.

Overall, episodes 1, 2, 4 were fine. Episode 3 was pretty good - don't understand the criticism of the dark scenes. Night King's story end was a bit abrupt though. I loved episode 5 and the finale was a fine way to end the series!

One of the highlights of earlier seasons for me is Jaime charging Dany and the dragon - and that's in the supposedly awful season 7.

[Peng]

1130502568352862209

[DavidSeven]

Grey Worm had no reason to keep Jon alive, and it's impossible to believe that he wouldn't have killed him as soon as he discovered he killed Dany. Those are the type of details that weren't written in the last season and a half, maybe more. I don't even believe it's a matter of rushing through runtime. There was so much visual filler in these last few episodes. You could have easily filled out so many more scenes and lost nothing in terms of spectacle. For whatever reason, they just couldn't write it.

[Dukefrukem]

Dany had no reason to keep Tyrion alive either. He should have been burned to ash before his pin hit the bottom stair.

[Ezee E]

Dany had no reason to keep Tyrion alive either. He should have been burned to ash before his pin hit the bottom stair.

The only reason I could think of in Dany's case was that she wanted to keep some of the political powers on her side. Keeping Tyrion as a prisoner would at least be beneficial in that case.

But yeah, no reason the Unsullied wouldn't just kill Jon Snow on the spot, unless for $'s.

[Wryan]

And we never got closure on whatever the fuck Bran was doing during the battle warging into birds.

Just flat out, "I'm outta here, gonna sail the skies, keep my body alive tho I'm gonna be king later. Bran out!"

[bac0n]

Speaking of burning alive, one thing I was waiting for that never happened, was seeing if Jon shared Dany's immunity to fire. I was sorta hoping that Draco was gonna burn fire on Jon after he discovered Dany, and Jon just shrugging it off.

[amberlita]

Jon was already burned killing the white walker in season 1. So I assume he wouldn’t share the immunity.


And we never got closure on whatever the fuck Bran was doing during the battle warging into birds.

Just flat out, "I'm outta here, gonna sail the skies, keep my body alive tho I'm gonna be king later. Bran out!"

That’s just how badly he wanted to avoid talking to mopey Theon.

Theon: “Bran, I just wanna say one more time how sorry I am about...”
Bran: *cuts him off* “It’s fine, seriously. I’m going now.” *warg eyes*

[Dukefrukem]

And we never got closure on whatever the fuck Bran was doing during the battle warging into birds.

Just flat out, "I'm outta here, gonna sail the skies, keep my body alive tho I'm gonna be king later. Bran out!"

My god that was dumb. I forgot about that.

[Ezee E]

Jon was already burned killing the white walker in season 1. So I assume he wouldn’t share the immunity.



That’s just how badly he wanted to avoid talking to mopey Theon.

Theon: “Bran, I just wanna say one more time how sorry I am about...”
Bran: *cuts him off* “It’s fine, seriously. I’m going now.” *warg eyes*

Even Yara didn't give a damn that he was gone after meeting up with the Starks later on.

[Dukefrukem]

Ha. Jon Snow being a Targaryen meant nothing.

The time-lapse too? We go from the middle of the worst winter ever to the middle of summer?

Sorry things just keep coming to me.

[Ezee E]

I really don't mind the Jon Snow lineage thing meaning anything. Like many, he would not have made a good kind if he was forced into it. By returning to the north, this was as ideal of an ending for him as he could've hoped for. Much like another Targaryen that was moved to Castle Black who gave up his right to be king.

[Morris Schæffer]

Ha. Jon Snow being a Targaryen meant nothing.

The time-lapse too? We go from the middle of the worst winter ever to the middle of summer?

Sorry things just keep coming to me.

Those were ashes.

[Peng]

Very minor nitpick, but I had expected/wished the last episode's name would be "A Dream of Spring", rather the more generic "The Iron Throne". I mean, they already use "The Winds of Winter", and it rather fits here, both literally (that growing sprout of seedling beyond the Wall when Jon went in at the end) and figuratively (the hopefulness of the finale, and the kingdom's new "better" ruler/system).

[Dukefrukem]

Those were ashes.

The dragon was covered in ash? That's even dumber.

[Ezee E]

Everyone was wearing winter clothing.

[amberlita]

When Dany was killed and Jon is holding her on the floor a snowflake falls and melts on her face.

I will miss Emilia Clarke speaking Dothraki and Valyrian (or whatever those languages are called). She was great at that and her final speech was rousing, if acoustically improbable that anyone could even hear her.

[Ezee E]

When Dany was killed and Jon is holding her on the floor a snowflake falls and melts on her face.

I will miss Emilia Clarke speaking Dothraki and Valyrian (or whatever those languages are called). She was great at that and her final speech was rousing, if acoustically improbable that anyone could even hear her.

Always pictured that for all those types of movies. "WHHAAAAAT?"

[Yxklyx]

When Dany was killed and Jon is holding her on the floor a snowflake falls and melts on her face. ..

So it was raining both ash and snow it seems.

[Dukefrukem]

The dragon is clearly shaking off snow.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-OFmv2oOaI

[Wryan]

That makes twice Jon faced down, at point-blank range, a very pissed off dragon that probably had every visible intention of killing him. Don't think any other character can say the same. Along with his apparently smellable heritage, that probably went a long way in the dragon not toasting him, like a lot of people probably expected or wanted (would he burn?). Also, that dragon snow pile scene was lovely and unexpected.

[Wryan]

Also, Dany's hair piled up like that makes her look like she has an absolute unit of a skull. Like Xenomorph proportions, and I can't unsee it.

[Ezee E]

That makes twice Jon faced down, at point-blank range, a very pissed off dragon that probably had every visible intention of killing him. Don't think any other character can say the same. Along with his apparently smellable heritage, that probably went a long way in the dragon not toasting him, like a lot of people probably expected or wanted (would he burn?). Also, that dragon snow pile scene was lovely and unexpected.

I liked that image almost as much as the famed Dany-Dragon Wings one.

[Gizmo]

Always pictured that for all those types of movies. "WHHAAAAAT?"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slbMe-aTY1A

[Morris Schæffer]

So it was raining both ash and snow it seems.

Right because the sun was out in episode 5 as far as I recall so where does the snow come from?

[Dukefrukem]

Right because the sun was out in episode 5 as far as I recall so where does the snow come from?

This logic; Does Episode 6 take place before Episode 5 or something?

[Morris Schæffer]

This logic; Does Episode 6 take place before Episode 5 or something?

What's with my logic bud?

In episode 5 I recall sunshine, in fact I only recall fairly nice climate in King's Landing. Episode 6 takes place right after 5. So ash is in fact more likely than snow to go with the apocalypse which just occured, but it seems it was snow as well.

[DavidSeven]

In marinating on the ending, the political aspects (the show's former strongpoint) really do not hold up well at all. The North being granted its independence breaks the whole thing apart. The show failed to convey why Dorne and the Iron Islands (both historically even more independent than the North) would agree to be ruled by the South once the North separated. Why should anyone agree to be ruled by Bran, who is an especially unknown quantity to the people of Dorne and the Iron Islands. At least, the Targaryens had dragons (WMDs). Robert had the allegiances of vast armies and similarly ruled via fear. Yara was only loyal to Dany and did a 180 flip and accepted Bran as her king for no reason.

Interested in thoughts from anyone who can rationalize this thing. As far as I can tell, the only reason to give the North its independence was to get the fan service, meme-worthy moment of Sansa being crowned. But in doing that, they de-legitimize the whole "breaking the wheel" thing, because the rule over *six kingdoms makes no rational sense if the North is going to do its own thing and continue relying on bloodlines to name heirs to their throne.

[Ezee E]

This is getting nerdy here but... Here goes my rationale...

In thinking longterm, I think the Greyjoys certainly separate themselves down the line a la King's Landing. Perhaps Yara brings back whoever was remaining from the Iron Fleet, and knows that King's Landing is now weak as all hell, and utilizes the time to gather some much needed allies, and what appeared to be Dorne.

Dorne's also got a new ruler, so similar deal.

They all need to know what they're dealing with in Bran Stark and some crazy rumors that they've probably heard. It's also a good time to confirm that the dragon is long gone.

[DavidSeven]

Those are good points, though I think the "wait and see" approach would've made more sense if the North also bought in. Once Sansa broke ranks, I think Dorne and the Iron Islands could've said "us, too" while still observing what was happening in the capital from afar. I like that the ending was hopeful, but it's a bit naive to believe certain kingdoms won't immediately try to take control once "the coast is clear," especially considering the universe's history of potential usurpers. Ultimately, it seems that whoever has the most powerful army and/or the most destructive weapon, will still find a way to rule at the end of the day.

[Irish]

As far as I can tell, the only reason to give the North its independence was to get the fan service, meme-worthy moment of Sansa being crowned. But in doing that, they de-legitimize the whole "breaking the wheel" thing, because the rule over *six kingdoms makes no rational sense if the North is going to do its own thing and continue relying on bloodlines to name heirs to their throne.

It's fanservicey as a hell, and not well supported, but I sorta assumed Sansa makes her claim because she can. Anybody else cries "independence" and it likely means more war. Sansa is Bran's older sister. She knows he won't force the issue.


Right because the sun was out in episode 5 as far as I recall so where does the snow come from?

Any lingering questions and loose ends in a fantasy series can be answered thus: A wizard did it.

Was that ash or snow in the final episode? A wizard turned the ash into snow to put out the fires.

Why didn't Drogon kill Jon? A wizard used mind control to make the dragon fly away.

But what about ...? Wizard.

[Ezee E]

Those are good points, though I think the "wait and see" approach would've made more sense if the North also bought in. Once Sansa broke ranks, I think Dorne and the Iron Islands could've said "us, too" while still observing what was happening in the capital from afar. I like that the ending was hopeful, but it's a bit naive to believe certain kingdoms won't immediately try to take control once "the coast is clear," especially considering the universe's history of potential usurpers. Ultimately, it seems that whoever has the most powerful army and/or the most destructive weapon, will still find a way to rule at the end of the day.

Sansa gets a say only because it's family. A Stark officially in two Kingdoms. If anything, that should've gotten a rise out of someone at the initial meeting, but the other leaders are all pretty weak-minded. Heck, one of them is Sansa's uncle.

And yeah, whoever has the strongest army would take all, unless they're just fine with how things are. As I've understood it, Dorne people hated the location of King's Landing. I think the biggest threat is Unsullied being bought or Dothraki just pillaging.

Did the Dothraki go with the Unsullied?

[Morris Schæffer]

I'm sure this has been asked before but here goes: Why only 6 episodes?

And don't you fucking tell me 'a wizard' Irish. :D

[Irish]

Scuttlebutt says Benioff & Weiss bolted for Star Wars. I guess the nature of GoT was such that HBO didn't want to hire new showrunners.

Wizards has nothing to do with it ... but the Jedi did :D

[Dukefrukem]

I learned yesterday that the wall was rebuilt with some kind of magic (which is lore from the books).

Are us non-book readers supposed to accept that from a TV POV?

[Grouchy]

Those are good points, though I think the "wait and see" approach would've made more sense if the North also bought in. Once Sansa broke ranks, I think Dorne and the Iron Islands could've said "us, too" while still observing what was happening in the capital from afar. I like that the ending was hopeful, but it's a bit naive to believe certain kingdoms won't immediately try to take control once "the coast is clear," especially considering the universe's history of potential usurpers. Ultimately, it seems that whoever has the most powerful army and/or the most destructive weapon, will still find a way to rule at the end of the day.
This and Grey Worm's indolence were the toughest pills to swallow for me. Dorne had no previous relationship with the Starks strong enough to trust them with anything and the Iron Islands are supposedly all about their independence.

[Ezee E]

I learned yesterday that the wall was rebuilt with some kind of magic (which is lore from the books).

Are us non-book readers supposed to accept that from a TV POV?

Rebuilt when? Prior to the show or after the events of this season? I didn't see anything showing that the wall was rebuilt fully?

[Dukefrukem]

Rebuilt when? Prior to the show or after the events of this season? I didn't see anything showing that the wall was rebuilt fully?

I mean. They walked through Castle Black. Am I supposed to assume that tunnel was a different point in the wall?

[Peng]

Isn’t where the Wall went down Eastwatch?

[Dukefrukem]

Yes. My bad.

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqJom6xfvMY

This Alt Shift X guy has been making videos for years, and is probably the most knowledgeable GoT person that isn't GRRM. This video gives a lot of context, coming out years ago, to what lies ahead for Arya. It also gives a neat idea of how Dany may have come across the eggs.

[Dukefrukem]

Ha. Have you guys seen these?

1132824525014482944

1133136831825031172

[Dukefrukem]

1132820600488022016

[Ezee E]

Kit Harrington and the Hound (sorry) are having a grand ol' time though, lol.

[Peng]

lmao this is probably going to win the emmy. Massively overperforms with record-breaking 32 noms, and about half the cast (10 noms) got in, including wtf choices like Alfie Allen and Lena Headley. As much as I like the latter, she barely got anything to do this season. Wouldn't mind if Clarke won though.

[Ezee E]

Seems especially weird that with a season so hated by critics and audiences alike, that they'd pay tribute to it like many other series as they exit.

As I think about it, Clarke definitely needs some recognition for fluently speaking an invented language like it was nothing. And despite what the writing had for her, she did some great acting with just her emotions in those last three episodes.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFefgQ61Vjg

[Skitch]

All awards for this season are ROTK style blanket awards. So long, and thanks for the fish.

[Ezee E]

All awards for this season are ROTK style blanket awards. So long, and thanks for the fish.

At least ROTK was well-acclaimed.

[Skitch]

At least ROTK was well-acclaimed.

True.

[Peng]

https://i.imgur.com/35biQnJ.png

(Source: https://nofilmschool.com/emmys-2019-scripts-download)

[Yxklyx]

Just finished reading the first book. Going back to why The North would become independent, they have entirely different gods/religion than everyone else. The show didn't do a whole lot with gods/religion other than mentioning them. As pointed out in a recent article I read, most of the characters in the show do not actually believe in their Gods, unlike people in the middle ages/early modern era. The characters as portrayed in the series have modern-day views on gods/religion - I don't know if the books are the same in that regard.

[Ezee E]

Just finished reading the first book. Going back to why The North would become independent, they have entirely different gods/religion than everyone else. The show didn't do a whole lot with gods/religion other than mentioning them. As pointed out in a recent article I read, most of the characters in the show do not actually believe in their Gods, unlike people in the middle ages/early modern era. The characters as portrayed in the series have modern-day views on gods/religion - I don't know if the books are the same in that regard.

Yeah, outside of a select few: High Sparrow/Red Priests(esses)/Beric Dondarrion/Jaqen, there's not a strong devotion from characters.

[Grouchy]

I don't know if the books are the same in that regard.
Definitively not.

[Yxklyx]

Definitively not.

Well I've just read the first book and religion just seems like a lip service in that one as well. Religion was over-arching in everyone's actions in the middle ages and I'm not getting that vibe - at least from the first book.

[Ezee E]

The Dothraki are definitely pretty religious, both in book and TV too I suppose. The East as a whole, really.