Film Awards Talk - 2019

[Ezee E]

Boy, how about those Golden Globes?

First time I've ever just given up and done something else. I stopped at thirty minutes because the jokes were so awful. Seeing the winners come in was pretty amusing because of how offended and bratty #FilmTwitter can get. Enough so that they berated 15-year old Elsie Fisher for enjoying Bohemian Rhapsody.

Thank goodness for Match Cut where civilized film conversation can be had.

[transmogrifier]

Man, the awards are getting more and more People's Choice every year. Watch Black Panther take Best Picture now.

[Pop Trash]

I haven't seen it, but apparently Bohemian Rhapsody is the Donald J Trump of 2018 movies.

[Spinal]

I forgot it was happening. Then saw the headline about Bohemian Rhapsody. Then started to watch the opening with Andy and Sandra out of curiosity. Then stopped mid-way through because it was too painful. Then decided to just shake my head and go on with my life.

[Watashi]

Man, the awards are getting more and more People's Choice every year. Watch Black Panther take Best Picture now.

I would gladly take it over Bohemian Rhapsody and Green Book.

[Pop Trash]

I would gladly take it over Bohemian Rhapsody and Green Book.

I hope the Academy Awards are better because the Golden Globes felt like flashbacks from the late 80s / early 90s when aggressively middlebrow stuff like Driving Miss Daisy and Scent of a Woman were cleaning up during awards season.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's the Golden Globes, so it doesn't matter, but a part of me is happy that Spider-Verse took the prize over Pixar.

But again, don't matter.

[Ivan Drago]

Is this where we can also post nominees and winners from other critics guilds? I'm about to vote in the first awards ceremony of my guild's existence and couldn't be more excited to be a part of it. :)

[Ivan Drago]

Also, I skipped the Golden Globes in favor of an Impact Wrestling live event. When I got back and watched the show on my DVR, I learned I had made the right choice.

[Irish]

Is this where we can also post nominees and winners from other critics guilds?

Fuck yeah. Go for it!



Also, I skipped the Golden Globes in favor of an Impact Wrestling live event.

Live wrestling is always gonna be better than most other entertainments. Especially if you're allowed to throw shit at the wrestlers.

[Ezee E]

Is this where we can also post nominees and winners from other critics guilds? I'm about to vote in the first awards ceremony of my guild's existence and couldn't be more excited to be a part of it. :)

Post away.

[Dukefrukem]

I never watch the Golden Globes- I just don't care about the TV aspect.

[Peng]

LOVE Olivia Colman's speech. "My bitches" lol

[Ivan Drago]

Live wrestling is always gonna be better than most other entertainments. Especially if you're allowed to throw shit at the wrestlers.

While I know those exist and have been to a few myself, this event was a live event on pay-per-view so thankfully that was off-limits.

And thanks, guys! I'll post our full nominees list once we announce the winners in the next couple days.

[Henry Gale]

DGA

Feature Film Award:

BRADLEY COOPER
“A Star Is Born”
(Warner Bros. Pictures)

ALFONSO CUARÓN
“Roma”
(Netflix)

PETER FARRELLY
“Green Book”
(Universal Pictures)

SPIKE LEE
“BlacKkKlansman”
(Focus Features)

ADAM MCKAY
“Vice”
(Annapurna Pictures)


First-Time Feature Film Director:

BO BURNHAM
“Eighth Grade”
(A24)

BRADLEY COOPER
“A Star Is Born”
(Warner Bros. Pictures)

CARLOS LOPEZ ESTRADA
“Blindspotting”
(Summit Entertainment)

MATTHEW HEINEMAN
“A Private War”
(Aviron Pictures)

BOOTS RILEY
“Sorry to Bother You”
(Annapurna Pictures)


EDIT:
Just as with last year with Peele being nominated in both categories, it seems pretty obvious that Cooper will take first-timer prize here, which makes it easy for Cuarón to complete his awards season infinity gauntlet of Best Director wins this year.

Nicest to see Sorry to Bother You and Blindspotting get some actual high profile recognition in the season, since they've come and gone from Best Screenplay conversations (where Burnham now has the best shot of the summer indies in that Oscar category). Surprising that A Private War's director got in over Ari Aster or Paul Dano.

Keep in mind the Oscar's five best directors choices rarely line up exactly with the DGA's (last year PTA bumped McDonagh) so I can easily see Lanthimos taking over for McKay, or even Jenkins subbing in for him or Farrelly. Alfonso, Spike and Bradley are obviously the locks, though.

[Ezee E]

I think Coogler would be the alternate for Oscar if anyone

[Ezee E]

DGAs:

BEST FEATURE
A Star is Born
BlackKklansman
Roma
two other movies Okay... Green Book and Vice... but they'll lose

BEST FIRST FEATURE:
A Star is Born
Eighth Grade
Blind Spotting
A Private War
Sorry to Bother You

[Ezee E]

Cinema Audio Society:

MOTION PICTURE – LIVE ACTION
A Quiet Place
A Star is Born
Black Panther
Bohemian Rhapsody
First Man


MOTION PICTURE – ANIMATED
Incredibles 2
Isle of Dogs
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
The Grinch


MOTION PICTURE – DOCUMENTARY
Fahrenheit 11/9
Free Solo
Quincy
Won’t You Be My Neighbor?

[Ezee E]

Sorry for the double post.

BEST TROPHY:
BAFTA
Oscar
Stanley Cup

Discuss

[Mysterious Dude]

Sorry for the double post.

BEST TROPHY:
BAFTA
Oscar
Stanley Cup

Discuss

I like the Emmy.

[Lazlo]

Cinema Audio Society:

MOTION PICTURE – LIVE ACTION
A Quiet Place
A Star is Born
Black Panther
Bohemian Rhapsody
First Man


MOTION PICTURE – ANIMATED
Incredibles 2
Isle of Dogs
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse
The Grinch


MOTION PICTURE – DOCUMENTARY
Fahrenheit 11/9
Free Solo
Quincy
Won’t You Be My Neighbor?

Roma really shoulda been here.

[Irish]

Sorry for the double post.

BEST TROPHY:
BAFTA
Oscar
Stanley Cup

Discuss

The Stanley Cup is unique and has a history and hockey nerds will leap at the chance to tell you about it.

The others are just cast metal copies of themselves.

[Ivan Drago]

As promised.....bold is the actual winner, italics are how I voted.

2018 Music City Film Critics Association Awards

BEST PICTURE

A Star Is Born
BlackKklansman
Mary Poppins Returns
Roma
Vice

BEST DIRECTOR

A Star Is Born – Bradley Cooper
BlackKklansman – Spike Lee
Black Panther – Ryan Coogler
Roma – Alfonso Cuaron
You Were Never Really Here – Lynne Ramsay

BEST ACTOR

Bradley Cooper – A Star Is Born
Christian Bale – Vice
Ethan Hawke – First Reformed
Joaquin Phoenix – You Were Never Really Here
Rami Malek – Bohemian Rhapsody

BEST ACTRESS

Emily Blunt – Mary Poppins Returns
Helena Howard – Madeline’s Madeline
Lady Gaga – A Star Is Born
Olivia Colman – The Favourite
Toni Collette – Hereditary

BEST SUPPORTING ACTOR

Mahershala Ali – Green Book
Michael B. Jordan – Black Panther
Rafael Casal – Blindspotting
Richard E. Grant – Can You Ever Forgive Me
Sam Elliott – A Star Is Born

BEST SUPPORTING ACTRESS

Amy Adams – Vice
Emma Stone – The Favourite
Gemma Chan – Crazy Rich Asians
Rachel Weisz – The Favourite
Regina King – If Beale Street Could Talk

BEST YOUNG ACTOR

Adriano Tardiolo – Happy As Lazzaro
Ed Oxenbould – Wildfire
Na-Kel Smith – Mid-90’s
Sunny Suljic – Mid-90’s

BEST YOUNG ACTRESS

Amandla Stenberg – The Hate U Give
Elsie Fisher – Eighth Grade
Helena Howard – Madeline’s Madeline
Thomasin McKenzie – Leave No Trace

BEST ANIMATED FEATURE

Incredibles 2
Isle Of Dogs
Ralph Breaks The Internet
Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse
Teen Titans Go! To The Movies

BEST DOCUMENTARY

Free Solo
Minding The Gap
Science Fair
Three Identical Strangers
Won’t You Be My Neighbor

BEST SCREENPLAY

BlackKklansman
First Reformed
Sorry To Bother You
The Favourite
Vice

BEST SONG

All The Stars – Black Panther
It’s That Time Of Year – Anna And The Apocalypse
OYAHYTT – Sorry To Bother You
Shallow – A Star Is Born
Sunflower – Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse

BEST SCORE

Black Panther
First Man
If Beale Street Could Talk
Mandy
Mary Poppins Returns

BEST SOUND INTEGRATION

Annihilation
A Quiet Place
A Star Is Born
Black Panther
Cold War

BEST SOUND

A Quiet Place
A Star Is Born
Black Panther
First Man
Roma

BEST MUSIC FILM

A Star Is Born
Bohemian Rhapsody
Hearts Beat Loud
Mary Poppins Returns
Ryuichi Sakamoto: Coda

BEST CINEMATOGRAPHY

Cold War
First Man
Mandy
Roma
The Favourite

BEST EDITING

BlackKklansman
First Man
Roma
Vice
Widows

BEST PRODUCTION DESIGN

Black Panther
Crazy Rich Asians
Mary Poppins Returns
Roma
The Favourite

THE JIM RIDLEY AWARD (for the film that most identifies with Nashville)

A Star Is Born
Blaze
The King

BEST COMEDY

Crazy Rich Asians
Game Night
The Death Of Stalin
The Favourite
Vice

BEST HORROR FILM

A Quiet Place
Halloween
Hereditary
Mandy
Suspiria

BEST ACTION FILM

Avengers: Infinity War
Black Panther
Mission: Impossible – Fallout

BEST FOREIGN LANGUAGE FILM

Cold War
Roma
Shoplifters

[Pop Trash]

BEST TROPHY:
BAFTA
Oscar
Stanley Cup

Discuss

I wonder how often Oscar is used as a sex toy by the winners. Call me a pervert, but c'mon, it's Hollywood we're talking about.

[Pop Trash]

Roma really shoulda been here.

Hereditary [cluck]

[baby doll]

I wonder how often Oscar is used as a sex toy by the winners. Call me a pervert, but c'mon, it's Hollywood we're talking about.Daniel Day Lewis must spend a ton on lube.

[Pop Trash]

Daniel Day Lewis must spend a ton on lube.

There Will Be Blood indeed*




*sorry, I'll show myself out

[dreamdead]

Oscar nominations:

Best Picture:

“Black Panther”
“BlacKkKlansman”
“Bohemian Rhapsody”
“The Favourite”
“Green Book”
“Roma”
“A Star Is Born”
“Vice”

Lead Actor:

Christian Bale, “Vice”
Bradley Cooper, “A Star Is Born”
Willem Dafoe, “At Eternity’s Gate”
Rami Malek, “Bohemian Rhapsody”
Viggo Mortensen, “Green Book”

Lead Actress:

Yalitza Aparicio, “Roma”
Glenn Close, “The Wife”
Olivia Colman, “The Favourite”
Lady Gaga, “A Star Is Born”
Melissa McCarthy, “Can You Ever Forgive Me?”

Supporting Actor:

Mahershala Ali, “Green Book”
Adam Driver, “BlacKkKlansman”
Sam Elliott, “A Star Is Born”
Richard E. Grant, “Can You Ever Forgive Me?”
Sam Rockwell, “Vice”

Supporting Actress:
Amy Adams, “Vice”
Marina de Tavira, “Roma”
Regina King, “If Beale Street Could Talk”
Emma Stone, “The Favourite”
Rachel Weisz, “The Favourite”

Director:

Spike Lee, “BlacKkKlansman”
Pawel Pawlikowski, “Cold War”
Yorgos Lanthimos, “The Favourite”
Alfonso Cuarón, “Roma”
Adam McKay, “Vice”

Animated Feature:

“Incredibles 2,” Brad Bird
“Isle of Dogs,” Wes Anderson
“Mirai,” Mamoru Hosoda
“Ralph Breaks the Internet,” Rich Moore, Phil Johnston
“Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse,” Bob Persichetti, Peter Ramsey, Rodney Rothman

Animated Short:

“Animal Behaviour,” Alison Snowden, David Fine
“Bao,” Domee Shi
“Late Afternoon,” Louise Bagnall
“One Small Step,” Andrew Chesworth, Bobby Pontillas
“Weekends,” Trevor Jimenez

Adapted Screenplay:

“The Ballad of Buster Scruggs,” Joel Coen , Ethan Coen
“BlacKkKlansman,” Charlie Wachtel, David Rabinowitz, Kevin Willmott, Spike Lee
“Can You Ever Forgive Me?,” Nicole Holofcener and Jeff Whitty
“If Beale Street Could Talk,” Barry Jenkins
“A Star Is Born,” Eric Roth, Bradley Cooper, Will Fetters

Original Screenplay:

“The Favourite,” Deborah Davis, Tony McNamara
“First Reformed,” Paul Schrader
“Green Book,” Nick Vallelonga, Brian Currie, Peter Farrelly
“Roma,” Alfonso Cuarón
“Vice,” Adam McKay

Cinematography:

“Cold War,” Lukasz Zal
“The Favourite,” Robbie Ryan
“Never Look Away,” Caleb Deschanel
“Roma,” Alfonso Cuarón
“A Star Is Born,” Matthew Libatique

Best Documentary Feature:

“Free Solo,” Jimmy Chin, Elizabeth Chai Vasarhelyi
“Hale County This Morning, This Evening,” RaMell Ross
“Minding the Gap,” Bing Liu
“Of Fathers and Sons,” Talal Derki
“RBG,” Betsy West, Julie Cohen

Best Documentary Short Subject:

“Black Sheep,” Ed Perkins
“End Game,” Rob Epstein, Jeffrey Friedman
“Lifeboat,” Skye Fitzgerald
“A Night at the Garden,” Marshall Curry
“Period. End of Sentence.,” Rayka Zehtabchi

Best Live Action Short Film:
“Detainment,” Vincent Lambe
“Fauve,” Jeremy Comte
“Marguerite,” Marianne Farley
“Mother,” Rodrigo Sorogoyen
“Skin,” Guy Nattiv

Best Foreign Language Film:

“Capernaum” (Lebanon)
“Cold War” (Poland)
“Never Look Away” (Germany)
“Roma” (Mexico)
“Shoplifters” (Japan)

Film Editing:

“BlacKkKlansman,” Barry Alexander Brown
“Bohemian Rhapsody,” John Ottman
“Green Book,” Patrick J. Don Vito
“The Favourite,” Yorgos Mavropsaridis
“Vice,” Hank Corwin

Sound Editing:

“Black Panther,” Benjamin A. Burtt, Steve Boeddeker
“Bohemian Rhapsody,” John Warhurst
“First Man,” Ai-Ling Lee, Mildred Iatrou Morgan
“A Quiet Place,” Ethan Van der Ryn, Erik Aadahl
“Roma,” Sergio Diaz, Skip Lievsay

Sound Mixing:

“Black Panther”
“Bohemian Rhapsody”
“First Man”
“Roma”
“A Star Is Born”

Production Design:

“Black Panther,” Hannah Beachler
“First Man,” Nathan Crowley, Kathy Lucas
“The Favourite,” Fiona Crombie, Alice Felton
“Mary Poppins Returns,” John Myhre, Gordon Sim
“Roma,” Eugenio Caballero, Bárbara Enrı́quez

Original Score:

“BlacKkKlansman,” Terence Blanchard
“Black Panther,” Ludwig Goransson
“If Beale Street Could Talk,” Nicholas Britell
“Isle of Dogs,” Alexandre Desplat
“Mary Poppins Returns,” Marc Shaiman, Scott Wittman

Original Song:

“All The Stars” from “Black Panther” by Kendrick Lamar, SZA
“I’ll Fight” from “RBG” by Diane Warren, Jennifer Hudson
“The Place Where Lost Things Go” from “Mary Poppins Returns” by Marc Shaiman, Scott Wittman
“Shallow” from “A Star Is Born” by Lady Gaga, Mark Ronson, Anthony Rossomando, Andrew Wyatt and Benjamin Rice
“When A Cowboy Trades His Spurs For Wings” from “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” by David Rawlings and Gillian Welch

Makeup and Hair:

“Border”
“Mary Queen of Scots”
“Vice”

Costume Design:

“The Ballad of Buster Scruggs,” Mary Zophres
“Black Panther,” Ruth E. Carter
“The Favourite,” Sandy Powell
“Mary Poppins Returns,” Sandy Powell
“Mary Queen of Scots,” Alexandra Byrne

Visual Effects:

“Avengers: Infinity War”
“Christopher Robin”
“First Man”
“Ready Player One”
“Solo: A Star Wars Story”

[dreamdead]

Frustrated that the Rockwell and Ali performance nods kept out people like Steven Yeun or Daniel Kaluuya. And that South Korea still doesn't have a single film that's made it to the Best Foreign Film shortlist, since Burning didn't make it.

Since Schrader had never been nominated for his scripts, I guess the First Reformed nod is a good thing. Shrug. Sucks that Malek started getting the praise and took away from an Ethan Hawke performance.

[Spinal]

Boy, I have very little interest in seeing the nominees that I haven't already seen: Black Panther, Bohemian Rhapsody, Green Book, and Vice.

[Morris Schæffer]

Black Panther?! Shaeeeet!

[Wryan]

Some big shocks, per usual.

Shouldn't Colman and Weisz/Stone be flipped in their categories? Seems like they should to me.

[Spinal]

Some big shocks, per usual.

Shouldn't Colman and Weisz/Stone be flipped in their categories? Seems like they should to me.

They're basically all leads.

[[ETM]]

I'm surprised at all the nominations for Blackkklansman. An amusing movie, but nothing really stood out.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Peng]

Netflix campaign is truly a force to be reckoned, as they manage both an on-the-line nom (Aparicio) and one shocking (seriously, did anyone see it coming?), inspired nom (de Tavira).

As usual, Screenplay noms are sublime, if not for Green Book, as is directing branch (three foreign directors!), even if McKay sours it a bit for me, but it's understandable (Vice is "directed" to its core) and no Farrelly at least.

Apart from my long resigned expectation that both Green Book and Bohemian Rhapsody are goind to do very well, otherwise there are plenty of good noms more than I expected. Cold War surging is a welcome surprise.

[Watashi]

Black Panther's nomination was more of a statement than an indicator of any real contention. Disney has their first live-action Best Picture nomination since 1964 (Mary Poppins), which is a huge win for them and genre/action films on a whole. I think Black Panther fully deserves it and the online backlash against the film since Disney propped it up for awards consideration has been tone-deaf and insufferable. I hate fandom with a goddamn passion.

The two biggest snubs are Justin Hurwitz for Best Original Score for his amazing work on First Man and Won't You Be My Neighbor for Best Documentary. Both are shocking as they were both assumed to not only be locks but the front runners to win.

I still don't think Green Book will win anything major (outside of Supporting Actor). I think it's a two way race now between BlackKklansman and Roma. I prefer the latter, but I'm really hoping Lee wins Best Director.

[baby doll]

Given how much "First Reformed" borrows from Bresson, Bergman, and Schrader's scripts for Taxi Driver and Obsession, it would've been more appropriate to nominate it for best adapted screenplay.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Black Panther's nomination was more of a statement than an indicator of any real contention. Disney has their first live-action Best Picture nomination since 1964 (Mary Poppins), which is a huge win for them and genre/action films on a whole. I think Black Panther fully deserves it and the online backlash against the film since Disney propped it up for awards consideration has been tone-deaf and insufferable. I hate fandom with a goddamn passion.

The two biggest snubs are Justin Hurwitz for Best Original Score for his amazing work on First Man and Won't You Be My Neighbor for Best Documentary. Both are shocking as they were both assumed to not only be locks but the front runners to win.

I still don't think Green Book will win anything major (outside of Supporting Actor). I think it's a two way race now between BlackKklansman and Roma. I prefer the latter, but I'm really hoping Lee wins Best Director.

Best Doc is full of a bunch of I don't know what. Haven't they historically had a problem with more populist documentaries? They famously shut out Hoop Dreams.

[transmogrifier]

Jesus, that Best Picture list makes you shudder at the thought of what the Best Popular Film list would have looked like.

[Wryan]

They might have pulled in Marvel movies from years not in contention just to piss you off, trans. :)

[Wryan]

"What the fuck!? This was three years ago! And it was shit then!"

[Ezee E]

My guess to "popular film" would've been a gross of over a certain benchmark or had a release of 3500+ screens. Or some combo of that sort. Would've been able to include Crazy Rich Asians and Mission Impossible: Fallout probably.

[Spinal]

Here are the nominees for Best Popular Film ... (looks up Box Office for 2018) ...

Avengers: Infinity War
Black Panther
Deadpool 2
Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom
Incredibles 2

And the winner is ... (checks box office) ...

Black Panther

[transmogrifier]

They might have pulled in Marvel movies from years not in contention just to piss you off, trans. :)

Well, Black Panther is the worst Marvel movie, so that’s enough for now.

[Ivan Drago]

Black Panther's nomination was more of a statement than an indicator of any real contention.

And that statement is, "We don't need Fox Searchlight to produce awards contenders! We'll just push one of our CGI tentpoles!"

The cultural significance of Black Panther getting nominated is important, but this does nothing for my nerves about the future of the business. We'll be seeing all the mid-majors swallow each other up in mergers, and Hollywood renamed to Disneywood within a matter of months at this point.

[transmogrifier]

And that South Korea still doesn't have a single film that's made it to the Best Foreign Film shortlist, since Burning didn't make it.

It takes some balls to snub an entire country for the entire history of your organization, but it's the Oscars, what can you do? The fact films like Burning, The Handmaiden, Poetry, Mother, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter, Secret Sunshine, Memories of Murder etc. can't even make the shortlist is pretty impressive in the snubbing department

[Watashi]

The cultural significance of Black Panther getting nominated is important, but this does nothing for my nerves about the future of the business. We'll be seeing all the mid-majors swallow each other up in mergers, and Hollywood renamed to Disneywood within a matter of months at this point.

Nah, if anything this will lead Disney to make more "serious" films. I would love to see Disney to do a full on drama with no franchise potential in the middle of awards season. I guess they tried to do that with Saving Mr. Banks a few years ago, but that was still very airy and safe. We'll see what they do with the Fox merger.

[Peng]

The Handmaiden didn’t get in because South Korea submitted The Age of Shadows instead, I think?

[baby doll]

Nah, if anything this will lead Disney to make more "serious" films.I doubt that one film getting an Oscar nomination will have any meaningful impact on Disney's overall corporate strategy whatsoever.

[transmogrifier]

The Handmaiden didn’t get in because South Korea submitted The Age of Shadows instead, I think?

I think so. The Korean submission committee are not blameless in this, of course. They often submit bland mediocrities that scan like a typical “Oscar”-type movie (eg The Age of Shadows)

[Spinal]

OK, I watched Black Panther tonight because it was available on Netflix. Perhaps nothing speaks to the history of racism in the United States and Hollywood more than the fact that this perfectly ordinary, mostly tedious and blunt superhero movie with subpar action and visual effects can be seen as something extraordinary. I mean, it is, in fact, something of a cultural landmark, simply because it hasn't been done before. And that's what it so utterly sad and pathetic. People of all ethnic backgrounds should be able to see themselves reflected in milquetoast big-budget junk.

[baby doll]

People of all ethnic backgrounds should be able to see themselves reflected in milquetoast big-budget junk.I've always found it vaguely imperialist when liberals complain about the lack of diversity in American cinema, as if other national cinemas didn't exist. If all I want to see was a film with Tamil people in it, I'd have literally thousands of titles to choose from. But apparently those films aren't supposed to matter because they're not in English and millions of dollars weren't spent promoting them in North American markets.

[Peng]

I think so. The Korean submission committee are not blameless in this, of course. They often submit bland mediocrities that scan like a typical “Oscar”-type movie (eg The Age of Shadows)

Yeah, same. Not that Thai cinema is up the academy’s taste, but they really have to choose the nationalist type almost every time.

[transmogrifier]

OK, I watched Black Panther tonight because it was available on Netflix. Perhaps nothing speaks to the history of racism in the United States and Hollywood more than the fact that this perfectly ordinary, mostly tedious and blunt superhero movie with subpar action and visual effects can be seen as something extraordinary. I mean, it is, in fact, something of a cultural landmark, simply because it hasn't been done before. And that's what it so utterly sad and pathetic. People of all ethnic backgrounds should be able to see themselves reflected in milquetoast big-budget junk.

Hear, hear. The action scenes in this are terrible, the exposition unsubtle and relentless, the title character a complete bore.... but apparently this doesn’t matter if you tick the boxes that matter these days.

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy-RE76XDgM

This is wonderful if you have a hour of time.

[Morris Schæffer]

Thanks for some of that Black Panther negativism. No seriously. Maybe I despise its inclusion in the best picture nominees list more than I care to admit.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Aww, I liked Black Panther.

:(

I'd agree its nomination for BP is a bit much, but on the scale of Oscar snafus, it barely registers to me.

[Watashi]

Nah, Black Panther is still terrific. I don't even carry a Disney-bias despite my employment for them (I think most of their films are unnecessary and labored), but this is one of the very few films that has stuck with me. This recent outcry of backlash ever since Disney propped it for awards consideration is boorish and trollish. This is Disney's first live-action output to be nominated for Best Picture since 1964. That's a crazy accomplishment considered how financially successful and critically lauded their films are.

[Spinal]

I've always found it vaguely imperialist when liberals complain about the lack of diversity in American cinema, as if other national cinemas didn't exist. If all I want to see was a film with Tamil people in it, I'd have literally thousands of titles to choose from. But apparently those films aren't supposed to matter because they're not in English and millions of dollars weren't spent promoting them in North American markets.

I don't know that I can speak to whether it's imperialist or not. But I kind of resent having to sit through something like Black Panther to be considered "woke" or whatever. I'm like, my butt was in the seat for Eve's Bayou two decades ago. Where were you, a-holes?

[Watashi]

Best Picture Nominees Ranked:

1. The Favourite
2. Roma
3. Black Panther
4. A Star is Born
5. BlackKklansman



6. Green Book
7. Bohemian Rhapsody
8. Vice

[Dead & Messed Up]

I kind of resent having to sit through something like Black Panther to be considered "woke" or whatever.

Do you really feel this pressure? Is this something you've experienced? I'm not being snarky, I genuinely have never felt this regarding a film. Maybe Crash, but I feel like that's on me for taking all the "this is important" shit seriously.

[Spinal]

Do you really feel this pressure? Is this something you've experienced? I'm not being snarky, I genuinely have never felt this regarding a film. Maybe Crash, but I feel like that's on me for taking all the "this is important" shit seriously.

I do feel that people talk about this movie in a way that is different than the way they talk about Doctor Strange when they are essentially of the same quality. It's the same way they talk about Hannah Gadsby.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I do feel that people talk about this movie in a way that is different than the way they talk about Doctor Strange when they are essentially of the same quality. It's the same way they talk about Hannah Gadsby.

I'd put this film above Dr. Strange by a healthy margin, but I see your point on that regard. For sure, people contextualize the movie as a movie of more Important Social Relevance. I guess I have trouble getting from "people talk about it differently" to a feeling of "having to sit" through something for fear of not appearing sufficiently "woke." A friend of mine named Alex posted about how socially important Black Panther on my FB feed, and that didn't make me annoyed with the movie, that made me annoyed with Alex.

[Spinal]

I don't want my irritation with self-absorbed social media offenders to overshadow my irritation with Marvel Studios. I loved seeing all these actors share the screen. I just wish it was in something else.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't want my irritation with self-absorbed social media offenders to overshadow my irritation with Marvel Studios.

I have room in my heart for both. :)

[MadMan]

Meh I loved both Black Panther and Vice. I think I will rent BlackKklansman, watch Roma on Netflix, see The Favorite in theaters and call it good. Bohemian Rhapsody will hopefully not win anything, and Green Book looks awful. I still think A Star Is Born is the dark horse to win BP.

[transmogrifier]

The best thing about the nominations are all the people on my Letterboxd feed who now feel obliged to watch Green Book, Bohemian Rhapsody, and Vice all ripping them to shreds is a righteous fury. I haven't seen any of them, but it is fun to see people so worked up over Oscar-bait yet many of the same people giving passes to mainstream blockbustery shit.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Been crunching the numbers the past couple nights, because I thought maybe there was a correlation between the box office success of Best Picture nominees (in total) and Oscar viewership. Turns out, no.

Then I checked for a relationship between the biggest box office hit nominated for Best Picture, because a year with a larger aggregate box office, like the 2013 Oscars, might not have any one film that really permeated the public consciousness. In this case, you can see correlating boosts with Return of the King and Avatar, but nothing for American Sniper or The Two Towers, so that's suggestive but sort of a wash in terms of data. Probably a relationship, but not a strong one.

Might go and check pre-2000 films to see if there was something more quantifiable then, but I think there's no truly useful relationship between populist Best Picture nominations and Oscar viewership, although given the Avatar data point, nominating a movie like Black Panther is a prudent move by Academy voters if their concern is ratings.

[Yellow is aggregate nominee box office, blue and green are viewership and Nielsen rating, respectively. I had to shift some decimals to get these on the same Y-axis, but you can kinda see that there's not a clear relationship.]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/deadandmessedup/BoxOfficeData_zps8topgdfk.png

[Irish]

"Black Panther" isn't significant because of its its box office or its genre.

I mean, "The Exorcist" was nominated for Best Picture. So was "Star Wars." And how many major awards did "Silence of the Lambs" win?

"Black Panther" is significant for its cast, its setting, its premise. When was the last time a feature film with a predominantly black cast snagged a Best Picture nom? 2009? 1985? Sheesh.

Glance at the noms for the last 20 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture ). The Best Picture noms with even a single minority lead are few and far between.

This may or may not matter to you or me, but it matters to a helluva lot of people. I think there's a way to recognize that and say, uh, well, it was still just a Marvel film (and everything that implies). The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[baby doll]

I don't know that I can speak to whether it's imperialist or not. But I kind of resent having to sit through something like Black Panther to be considered "woke" or whatever. I'm like, my butt was in the seat for Eve's Bayou two decades ago. Where were you, a-holes?Not to get all Armond White about it, but the fact that people keep falling for each and every manufactured "breakthrough" for diversity and representation (from Philadelphia and The Joy Luck Club to Brokeback Mountain and Crazy Rich Asians) just shows that reviewers, op-ed writers, and liberal Twitter are suckers who can't tell the difference between hype and artistry.

[baby doll]

This may or may not matter to you or me, but it matters to a helluva lot of people.Those people don't care about art.

[Pop Trash]

The best thing about the nominations are all the people on my Letterboxd feed who now feel obliged to watch Green Book, Bohemian Rhapsody, and Vice all ripping them to shreds is a righteous fury. I haven't seen any of them, but it is fun to see people so worked up over Oscar-bait yet many of the same people giving passes to mainstream blockbustery shit.

Having just got out of Green Book, I can tell you Black Panther is 1000x better and I didn't even think it was all that great. At least the Afro-Futurism is fresh and new (at least on a big budget digital scale, I STAN for Sun Ra's Space is the Place). The costumes are great. The music is dope. Michael B Jordan's Killmonger is one of the more interesting Marvel villains with an actual ideology.

[Pop Trash]

"Black Panther" isn't significant because of its its box office or its genre.

I mean, "The Exorcist" was nominated for Best Picture. So was "Star Wars." And how many major awards did "Silence of the Lambs" win?

"Black Panther" is significant for its cast, its setting, its premise. When was the last time a feature film with a predominantly black cast snagged a Best Picture nom? 2009? 1985? Sheesh.

Glance at the noms for the last 20 years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture ). The Best Picture noms with even a single minority lead are few and far between.

This may or may not matter to you or me, but it matters to a helluva lot of people. I think there's a way to recognize that and say, uh, well, it was still just a Marvel film (and everything that implies). The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I agree. It's a big populist unapologetically Black-as-night movie directed by a brother from Oakland (rep!) that isn't predicated on Black victimhood (Killmonger's monologue aside, but even that is about taking action) like The Color Purple or 12 Years a Slave or even Do the Right Thing. Maybe Malcolm X was the closest since it had brothers in X hats running around, but even that is a bit of a eat-your-vegetables historical drama. It's Black folks Titanic moment, and sure you can trash Titanic all you want (I will not), but that was a BFD to people all over the world (read: teen and pre-teen girls).

[Irish]

Those people don't care about art.

Ugh. Okay. I'll bite:

Do you think the Academy Awards are really about art?

Do you really think most moviegoers care about art?

Do you really think movie are art all the time?

Do you think that it's possible to celebrate something that's not trying to be art?

And finally:

Who exactly are "those people"?

[Spinal]

When was the last time a feature film with a predominantly black cast snagged a Best Picture nom? 2009? 1985? Sheesh.

2016.

[transmogrifier]

And this is why the Academy Awards are a joke: a ton of otherwise reasonable people are happy for them to be a joke and actively get irritated with others who wish they weren't a joke.

So with that in mind, I'll take my harping about the general shittiness of BP the movie (as opposed to BP the symbol) to another thread.

[Irish]

2016.

Point. Forgot about that one. But still---look at the list. It's kinda astonishing and it only gets whiter the farther back you go.

[transmogrifier]

Point. Forgot about that one. But still---look at the list. It's kinda astonishing and it only gets whiter the farther back you go.

2 of them, actually.

[baby doll]

Ugh. Okay. I'll bite:

Do you think the Academy Awards are really about art?

Do you really think most moviegoers care about art?

Do you really think movie are art all the time?

Do you think that it's possible to celebrate something that's not trying to be art?

And finally:

Who exactly are "those people"?"Those people" are anyone who thinks that a film's form and style is less important than whether or not it has the "right" politics--in other words, mainstream reviewers, op-ed writers, and people on both liberal and conservative Twitter who seem to believe that Hollywood movies exist only to advance their political agenda, which is a dumb way to think about movies and a dumb way to think about politics.

[Grouchy]

I think there's a difference between a film's historical and cultural significance and its actual quality or artistry, and people "who care about art" do realize that, baby doll.

[Irish]

"Those people" are anyone who thinks that a film's form and style is less important than whether or not it has the "right" politics--in other words, mainstream reviewers, op-ed writers, and people on both liberal and conservative Twitter who seem to believe that Hollywood movies exist only to advance their political agenda, which is a dumb way to think about movies and a dumb way to think about politics.

"Black Panther" isn't really a political film --- it only becomes so by virtue of its existence. It tried to be --- and mostly succeeded --- at being a big. splashy entertainment.

Why so many hard and firm lines about "art"? The movies are so rarely about art, the Academy even less so.

PS: Didn't realize that "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," "The Towering Inferno," "Jaws," "Raiders of the Lost Ark," and "E.T." were all nommed for Best Picture, too. So was "Tootsie," "Witness," "The Fugitive," and "Dead Poets Society." The Academy likes to celebrate popular movies every few years, and some of them are big, F/X driven movies. (And some of those even win.)

So why begrudge "Black Panther"? Or for that matter, anyone who dug it?

[baby doll]

"Black Panther" isn't really a political film --- it only becomes so by virtue of its existence. It tried to be --- and mostly succeeded --- at being a big. splashy entertainment.

Why so many hard and firm lines about "art"? The movies are so rarely about art, the Academy even less so.

PS: Didn't realize that "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," "The Towering Inferno," "Jaws," "Raiders of the Lost Ark," and "E.T." were all nommed for Best Picture, too. So was "Tootsie," "Witness," "The Fugitive," and "Dead Poets Society." The Academy likes to celebrate popular movies every few years, and some of them are big, F/X driven movies. (And some of those even win.)

So why begrudge "Black Panther"? Or for that matter, anyone who dug it?To clarify a few points, when I talk about the art of cinema, I'm using the word in the sense that all films are deliberately made in order to achieve certain aesthetic effects (though obviously some are more successful than others). Tootsie isn't less artistic than L'avventura because it's a Hollywood film, a classical film, a comedy, a box office hit, an Oscar nominee, escapism, or because its success can't be attributed to a single auteur.

As for a film's historical and cultural significance, this isn't something that can be really known or measured. Did Moonlight make anyone more empathetic towards black gay men? Possibly, but how would you know? Often when people say a film is "important," they don't mean it was important for them, because they're already right-thinking people (even if they still send their kids to an all-white school), but important for other, less progressive people who need to be converted. However, I'm guessing that very few racist homophobes bothered to see the film, and even if they did, it's unlikely it changed their minds.

Also, liberals often talk as if the cinema was invented so that every minority identity could see itself represented on screen, which strikes me as a really boring way to think about art. As Roger Ebert wrote in one of his better moments, "Most moviegoers choose titles that will show them, they hope, exactly what they want to see. The willingness to accept a director's vision, even if it's not your own, is the sign of a moviegoer who has advanced from passive, childlike consumerism into a more advanced understanding of the cinema."

[Spinal]

PS: Didn't realize that "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid," "The Towering Inferno," "Jaws," "Raiders of the Lost Ark," and "E.T." were all nommed for Best Picture, too. So was "Tootsie," "Witness," "The Fugitive," and "Dead Poets Society." The Academy likes to celebrate popular movies every few years, and some of them are big, F/X driven movies. (And some of those even win.)

So why begrudge "Black Panther"? Or for that matter, anyone who dug it?

Because none of those films were a part of a highly manufactured, highly sterile, highly BORING "cinematic universe". It's not just that Black Panther is popular, blockbuster entertainment. It's that it's hard not to feel like it's part of a relentless, unstoppable machine designed to churn out an endless stream of pap. None of the other films were like that when they were released.

[Irish]

Because none of those films were a part of a highly manufactured, highly sterile, highly BORING "cinematic universe". It's not just that Black Panther is popular, blockbuster entertainment. It's that it's hard not to feel like it's part of a relentless, unstoppable machine designed to churn out an endless stream of pap. None of the other films were like that when they were released.

You're preaching to the choir. I've bitched about Marvel's machine-tooled films since "The Avengers." (But I disagree on your last statement --- some of the films I referenced were definitely pap and relentlessly machine-like.)

But if the beef is that sequels or quasi-sequels don't deserve to be nommed, what about "The Godfather Part III," "Silence of the Lambs" or "Mad Max Fury Road"?

If the argument is that well produced blockbusters with high production values and significant technical achievements don't deserve it, what about "Titanic" or "Return of the King"?

If "Black Panther" wins --- and at this point, I'm very nearly hoping it does --- Kevin Feige will be on that stage and he definitely deserves to be there. Nobody in the business has achieved what he's achieved and, for good or ill, his achievement is certainly notable.

[Irish]

Did Moonlight make anyone more empathetic towards black gay men? Possibly, but how would you know?

Because they talk about it.

I literally had this conversation with a friend yesterday, when we were talking about Best Picture noms. He told me that "Call Me By Your Name" and "Moonlight" were the only two that effected him in the last few years. He'd seen dozens of hetero coming of age stories, but never a gay one. He said those movies changed his perspective. So there's one anecdotal data point.

Anyway, I think people tend to underestimate the effect of US media and its ability to erase or demonize whole swaths of people. (Just look at network TV and see how habitually Latinos are portrayed as criminals or Muslims are depicted as terrorists.) This is why positive representations matter; they contradict the relentless propaganda we see everywhere else.

"Black Panther" matters because it's a US produced movie about black people, most of them heroes, and it's not about slavery, Jim Crow, or the Civil Rights movement. That's virtually unheard of in the mainstream.

I dunno. I think that's kinda cool. And, again, certainly notable.

[MadMan]

I'm on Irish's side here. Also it is crappy that Crazy Rich Asians got snubbed. But that's how it goes sometimes.

[baby doll]

Because they talk about it.

I literally had this conversation with a friend yesterday, when we were talking about Best Picture noms. He told me that "Call Me By Your Name" and "Moonlight" were the only two that effected him in the last few years. He'd seen dozens of hetero coming of age stories, but never a gay one. He said those movies changed his perspective. So there's one anecdotal data point.

Anyway, I think people tend to underestimate the effect of US media and its ability to erase or demonize whole swaths of people. (Just look at network TV and see how habitually Latinos are portrayed as criminals or Muslims are depicted as terrorists.) This is why positive representations matter; they contradict the relentless propaganda we see everywhere else.

"Black Panther" matters because it's a US produced movie about black people, most of them heroes, and it's not about slavery, Jim Crow, or the Civil Rights movement. That's virtually unheard of in the mainstream.

I dunno. I think that's kinda cool. And, again, certainly notable.Point taken, but this kind of thing can easily slide into praising a film for its audience rather than what's on the screen: e.g., Moonlight and Call Me by Your Name are more "important" than the countless gay coming-of-age stories made before them, not because they're artistically superior, but because they played in multiplexes.

[Pop Trash]

Point taken, but this kind of thing can easily slide into praising a film for its audience rather than what's on the screen: e.g., Moonlight and Call Me by Your Name are more "important" than the countless gay coming-of-age stories made before them, not because they're artistically superior, but because they played in multiplexes.

Are there better gay coming-of-age movies than Moonlight and/or Call Me by Your Name? I worked at an independent video store about a decade ago with a sizable GLBT section and one of the biggest complaints from our gay customers was that the films simply weren't that great (particularly the English language ones). We had lots of cut-rate DTV production value movies from Strand(?) releasing. I think Moonlight and Call Me by Your Name changed that.

[baby doll]

Are there better gay coming-of-age movies than Moonlight and/or Call Me by Your Name? I worked at an independent video store about a decade ago with a sizable GLBT section and one of the biggest complaints from our gay customers was that the films simply weren't that great (particularly the English language ones). We had lots of cut-rate DTV production value movies from Strand(?) releasing. I think Moonlight and Call Me by Your Name changed that.Mysterious Skin is the first title that comes to mind.

[Grouchy]

As for a film's historical and cultural significance, this isn't something that can be really known or measured. Did Moonlight make anyone more empathetic towards black gay men? Possibly, but how would you know? Often when people say a film is "important," they don't mean it was important for them, because they're already right-thinking people (even if they still send their kids to an all-white school), but important for other, less progressive people who need to be converted. However, I'm guessing that very few racist homophobes bothered to see the film, and even if they did, it's unlikely it changed their minds.
I think there's always a bit of hypocrisy involved in the appreciation of these movies from the "right-thinking" people. Everyone gets in a room together to pat themselves on the back on the comfort of a movie that tells them racism and homophobia are wrong, but they don't change the fundamentals of their behavior even if they involve smaller prejudices like the one you mention, sending their kids to an all-white school. That's part of the reason I tend to dislike "big issue" movies. And that's why Black Panther is a cultural milestone already - it's a movie that tackles social issues while also being an entertaining superhero blockbuster in the largest, most expensive cinematic franchise in the world right now. As for Moonlight and Call Me By Your Name, time will tell. I didn't even find the former all that great to begin with.

A racist homophobe will probably not watch a coming-of-age LGTB movie, true. But a kid or a teenage person who accidentally watches a good film about people different than himself just might be less likely to bully or discriminate against such people. The formative years are where it's at in my opinion.


Also, liberals often talk as if the cinema was invented so that every minority identity could see itself represented on screen, which strikes me as a really boring way to think about art. As Roger Ebert wrote in one of his better moments, "Most moviegoers choose titles that will show them, they hope, exactly what they want to see. The willingness to accept a director's vision, even if it's not your own, is the sign of a moviegoer who has advanced from passive, childlike consumerism into a more advanced understanding of the cinema."
Good quote.

[Spinal]

But if the beef is that sequels or quasi-sequels don't deserve to be nommed, what about "The Godfather Part III," "Silence of the Lambs" or "Mad Max Fury Road"?

If the argument is that well produced blockbusters with high production values and significant technical achievements don't deserve it, what about "Titanic" or "Return of the King"?



Neither of those are my beef. I would support well-made sequels, remakes, blockbusters, whatever. I don't think Black Panther, taken strictly as a movie and not as a cultural milestone, is anything but a tedious bore of an action film with a blunt, humorless screenplay and lame visual effects. I mean it makes Guardians of the Galaxy look like a prestige picture.

[Wryan]

Not really related to the topic, but:

The extended, long-held diner scene at the end of Moonlight is probably one of the most perfect...things I've ever seen in film. Every moment, note, beat, face, shot and pause...it's absolutely spectacular. I felt like I was holding my breath the entire time. The actors are perfect. I could see some people finding it boring, and it's hard to put into words how well it works, perhaps because it worked on me in such a specific way. I think it's one of the most successful pieces of cinema I've ever seen, top to bottom, considering all elements. Tho Trevante Rhodes is really good, I was sort of surprised to see comparatively little praise for Ashton Sanders (middle Chiron), who did a phenomenal job.

[Pop Trash]

Mysterious Skin is the first title that comes to mind.

Mysterious Skin is mostly about child abuse. It's a different type of film than Moonlight and CMBYN (and I know people questioned the age difference in CMBYN which is a fair criticism, but I don't think it's presented as an abusive relationship in the way Mysterious Skin is).

[Spinal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy-RE76XDgM

This is wonderful if you have a hour of time.

Thanks for sharing this. It was delightful. Spike Lee is always such a fascinating interview. And it was a pleasure to hear him as curious as anyone about how that shot in Roma was pulled off. I even have more respect for Ryan Coogler now, and feel slightly guilty for not liking Black Panther more.

[Dead & Messed Up]

We caption those "Hollywood Reporter" roundtables at work. One of the better things to work on, even if the cross-talk makes it a challenge. Interested to hear what Coogler has to say if it's making Spinal feel mildly guilty. Wakanda forever, Spinal. Wakanda forever.

[Ezee E]

Couple funny observations from that panel:

-Everyone doesn't respect Bradley Cooper as a director. Possibly because he gets his first start doing a full studio movie, where everyone else worked extremely small budget and in the indie system.

-The host seems to flake off Coogler for whatever reason. When Coogler talks about wanting to have a dinner with his mom, and the host brushes it off, everyone's ready to bat for Coogler.

-Spike and Alfonso probably could've had their own panel between the two of them and I would've been fine with that. Makes sense since they are the most accomplished.

-I like that Spike's comfortable enough to interject in his own question here and there, which are really questions that the viewer is thinking anyway. For whatever reason, it doesn't seem to come across too rude either.

[MadMan]

We caption those "Hollywood Reporter" roundtables at work. One of the better things to work on, even if the cross-talk makes it a challenge. Interested to hear what Coogler has to say if it's making Spinal feel mildly guilty. Wakanda forever, Spinal. Wakanda forever.Yes. Wakanda Forever.

I will have to watch that video later. I saw a pic of Spike and Alfonso reacting to Cooper in a funny, "Are you serious?" kind of way.

[Irish]

In a break with tradition, the Oscars in four categories will be presented during commercial breaks when the 91st Oscars are broadcast by ABC on Feb. 24.

The affected categories are cinematography, film editing, live action short and the category of makeup and hairstyling.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/academy-unveils-4-oscars-categories-be-presented-commercial-breaks-1185505

What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

I've always considered cinematography and film editing to be major awards because they're central to the medium.

[Grouchy]

What the flying fuck. This show truly has no bottom.

[Dukefrukem]

What the hell???

[Ezee E]

Sound Mixing should be subbed in for Editing.
Another short category for Cinematography.

There'd be some grumbling still... but not like this. This is pretty bad. Even non-film lovers still like Cinematography, and Editing tends to always point to Best Picture winner (not this year though).

I'm surprised at how the Academy continues to make bad decision after bad decision. Talk about abandoning your own audience to capture an audience that wasn't interested.

[transmogrifier]

There is a reason they wanted a Best Popular Film category after all. They want eyes, and apparently don't give a fuck about turning into the People's Choice Awards. I'm still so surprised about how much energy goes into Oscar prognostication among a subset of online film reviewers/commentators. What compels them to care so much is beyond me.

[Milky Joe]

continuously astounded that anybody actually still cares about these horrific broadcasts.

as if presenting these awards on camera would somehow magically make it not a boring hollywood advertising circle jerk

[transmogrifier]

Literally the only thing I have watched of the Oscars in the last 5 years or so has been a replay on YouTube of the La La Land/Moonlight fuck up, because it was funny.

Maybe that's what they need to do - just basically make a huge mess of things all the time. More Rob Lowe/Cinderella numbers, hosts bombing, maybe someone falling off stage drunk.

[Watashi]

I will still always love the Oscars. It's still the only event that gathers film nerds and casual filmgoers together. It's the one time of the year people actually give a damn about the medium who are outside that Film Twitter bubble.

Plus it's just super fun to predict and bet on.

This news just makes me furious and I have no idea what the President is thinking (someone pointed out that each category omitted doesn't have a Disney film nominated, so it's purely a business one which they decided to omit and keep).

[Ivan Drago]

Can someone take the TV rights to the Oscars out of Disney's hands? Please?

Watching them devolve to the level of the MTV Movie Awards is insulting to watch.

[PURPLE]

Literally the only thing I have watched of the Oscars in the last 5 years or so has been a replay on YouTube of the La La Land/Moonlight fuck up, because it was funny.

Maybe that's what they need to do - just basically make a huge mess of things all the time. More Rob Lowe/Cinderella numbers, hosts bombing, maybe someone falling off stage drunk.Agree 100%.

However, as pointless and as useless as the Oscars are, the Grammys are far, far worse. The nominees don't make any sense to anyone on any planet. However, the show is inherently more interesting because you can actually make the art during the show. The Oscars are basically just a long show giving out awards to undeserving films - the least they could do is screw up giving an award to the correct undeserving candidate and give it to someone else.

And, I mean, I love Moonlight, but that might be the one time they were even in the ballpark.

[Ezee E]

While many may say the Oscars are pointless, I imagine Mahershala Ali wouldn't have gotten this year's worth of casting (True Detective and Green Book) if it weren't for his Oscar. Could only imagine the career boost it gives to crewmembers to say they have an Oscar on their resume.

[PURPLE]

Can you imagine how much better off black actors would have been if the Oscars gave awards to actors that actually deserved the awards over the last 50 years? There are many, many more black actors that would have won, and then we wouldn't be focusing on Mahershala Ali now getting cast. Besides, he's getting cast because he's incredibly over-qualified. Someday he might get cast for something he's merely qualified for and that would be a hell of a day.

[Ezee E]

Can you imagine how much better off black actors would have been if the Oscars gave awards to actors that actually deserved the awards over the last 50 years? There are many, many more black actors that would have won, and then we wouldn't be focusing on Mahershala Ali now getting cast. Besides, he's getting cast because he's incredibly over-qualified. Someday he might get cast for something he's merely qualified for and that would be a hell of a day.

eh?

[MadMan]

I feel they are going to drive away people like myself and others who still watch and somewhat care. I think this is the first ceremony since 2012 or 2013 that I don't care if I view the whole thing, and I have still seen most of the Best Picture noms anyways.

[Dukefrukem]

VFX to this day, still mind boggles me head. I understand the basic idea of how it works, but I really don't understand how it's done frame over frame, on top of, surrounding or behind live action footage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpdkVF6PnUM

[Pop Trash]

People can trash the Oscars (and awards season in general), but often the only time people see indie or even 'mid tier' studio movies is between November and February (aka awards season), so if it works as a marketing ploy, more power to them. Some of the nominees are bullshit (looking at you Green Book), but if it gets more people to see movies like The Favourite, Roma, Beale Street, I'm all about it.

This is an interesting interview w/ Steven Soderbergh that goes into viewing habits and such:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/02/steven-soderbergh-high-flying-bird-oscars-netflix-interview/582547/

[Dukefrukem]

https://etcanada.com/news/419361/george-clooney-brad-pitt-and-more-add-their-names-to-protest-against-academys-oscars-plans/

[Irish]

Following a Thursday night meeting with top cinematographers, Academy leadership including President John Bailey and CEO Dawn Hudson have pledged to air every awards category on the live show a week from Sunday.

So now the Academy is reversing their decision and all awards will air live.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/all-oscar-categories-to-air-live-after-hollywood-protest-1203141496/

lol, what a bunch of clowns

[transmogrifier]

Academy: "We're gonna have a Best Popular Film category!"
People: "That idea sucks."
Academy: "We're not gonna have a Best Popular Film category!"

Academy: "We're gonna have Kevin Hart host!"
People: "That idea sucks."
Academy: "We're not gonna have Kevin Hart host!"

Academy: "We're not gonna air the editing and cinematography awards live!"
People: "That idea sucks."
Academy: "We are gonna air the editing and cinematography awards live!"

This is more fun than the actual ceremony. What's next?

[amberlita]

I'm really made Eighth Grade isn't nominated. For Screenplay most of all. I'm talking unreasonably mad. Like I keep telling myself "stop caring about that". Still I am mad. Bo Burnham is brilliant.

[MadMan]

I have to work tonight, but I am rooting for:

Spike Lee and BlackkKlansman, Spider-Verse, and The Favourite to win something. That is about it.

[Henry Gale]

I'm really made Eighth Grade isn't nominated. For Screenplay most of all. I'm talking unreasonably mad. Like I keep telling myself "stop caring about that". Still I am mad. Bo Burnham is brilliant.

Take that same energy and use it to appreciate how much more correct the Director's Guild, Writer's Guild and Indie Spirit Awards got it by showing their appreciation of Burnham.

[baby doll]

The paradox of the Oscars in 2019 is that online news and social media sites need awards season to generate clicks yet the centrepiece of the discussion is an award show broadcasted on an obsolete medium (TV) honouring achievements in an obsolete art form (film).

[amberlita]

Take that same energy and use it to appreciate how much more correct the Director's Guild, Writer's Guild and Indie Spirit Awards got it by showing their appreciation of Burnham.

That's true. But nobody watches those shows. *insert joke about falling Oscars viewership here*

It may be misguided but I still maintain some idea that the Oscars, at the very least, can bring some attention to films that do deserve it, even if those films don't win an award. And also, when you love something, you want all the things for it. Everyone in this virtual room knows that the Oscars are stale and out-of-touch, rarely celebrating the best that the medium had to offer in the past year. But it's still the biggest film award show of the year, and I'd prefer they recognized it rather than not.

Anyway, to your point, here's a clip of Burnham accepting his DGA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts1CKEGzTto

His empathy and respect for a group of people for whom adults hold so much disdain is truly inspiring.

[Spinal]

Burnham would have been a good host.

[Watashi]

My prediction is that the Oscars will be streaming on Netflix in the next five years.

[Ivan Drago]

My prediction is that the Oscars will be streaming on Netflix in the next five years.

Or Disney+, if they're that desperate to keep them by that point.

[Dukefrukem]

Ok what did i miss so far?

[Dukefrukem]

Ok Black Panther has already won two awards. Best Production Design & Best Costume Design

[Spinal]

Ok what did i miss so far?

It's been pretty painful to watch thus far.

[Spinal]

But hey, we got to see 1.7 seconds of Cold War.

[dreamdead]

It's been pretty painful to watch thus far.

I feel like a bad human when I have to watch three people awkwardly read from a thank-you list instead of one person reading for all. I understand the collective approach, but it was just dead time, where each would nudge the other.

Still need to see Free Solo, but not sure if any nominee was as interesting to me as Minding the Gap.

[transmogrifier]

Ok Black Panther has already won two awards. Best Production Design & Best Costume Design

I hope Black Panther wins Best Picture because it would be the perfect symbol of the pointlessness of this entire charade. Crash needs some company as the worst Best Picture winner.

[Spinal]

With awards like these, it's really astonishing anyone thought a Best Popular Film category was necessary.

[transmogrifier]

With awards like these, it's really astonishing anyone thought a Best Popular Film category was necessary.

I know, it's bizarre.

[Dukefrukem]

I haven't seen First Man yet... but really? Best VFX?

[dreamdead]

Gonna be hilarious if Green Book and Bohemian Rhapsody keep taking awards and Yorgos Lanthimos and Spike Lee get nothing.

[Skitch]

I haven't seen First Man yet... but really? Best VFX?

Guess I need to bump it up.

[Spinal]

This awards show is worse than cancer.

[Dukefrukem]

There you go Spike.

[Spinal]

Well, at least there was that.

[Spinal]

It's too bad his speech was largely incoherent.

[amberlita]

I haven't seen First Man yet... but really? Best VFX?

Yes. It also deserved Best Film Editing (and a number of additional nominations), but alas...

[Spinal]

It's abundantly clear that Oscar voters don't really watch the movies that are not nominated for Best Picture. They should probably just admit that.

[Wryan]

lol Green Book?

[Irish]

I recorded and started watching around 70 minutes in. The experience is greatly helped by fast forwarding over bad speeches and endless commercials. Eventually I caught up to the live show.

No-host moves things along but it also makes the ceremony rather soulless. It doesn't feel like there would be much difference between watching live and watching an autoplay of YouTube clips the next day.

Very happy "Black Panther" nabbed Costume and Production Design.

Glad "Into the Spider-verse" won, especially since some other films in that category were flat out terrible.

Spike's speech was embarrassing and he should have given his co-writers a turn at the mic.

But: first time in forever I wasn't severely annoyed by either screenplay win.

Olivia Coleman was charming.

Burst into loud laughter when "Green Book" won. I can already picture the bitching and moaning on twitter.

I enjoyed watching the show. It was a low-key, mediocre year so it didn't feel like the stakes were all that high and that was something of a relief.

[DavidSeven]

Preferential voting ballot strikes again.

Olivia Coleman’s speech was great.

[baby doll]

For some reason I'm a little nostalgic for the days when they didn't "spread the love," but a single inevitable blockbuster crushed the competition like steamroller.

[Peng]

Crash needs some company as the worst Best Picture winner.

Wish granted!

[baby doll]

Anybody who thinks Crash is the worst best picture winner has not seen Gigi.

[Peng]

I liked Bohemian Rhapsody less than Green Book, but I would take the former as Best Pic winner over the latter. At least I would understand that it's insanely popular, instead of wrapping my head around the Academy embracing a film as retrograde in both film aspect and race aspect as this.

[baby doll]

You Can't Take it with You, Gone with the Wind, All About Eve, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Sound of Music, Slumdog Millionaire, The King's Speech, and The Artist also suck.

[Spinal]

On some level, Green Book is easier to swallow than Bohemian Rhapsody or Black Panther because I don't actually know anyone who likes it.

[Irish]

I don't actually know anyone who likes it.

You know me :D

I liked the film and enjoyed watching it.

[Spinal]

Spike's speech was embarrassing

Going into tonight, I was most looking forward to Spike getting an award and taking the mic. Huge missed opportunity. Man, he made Michael Moore sound like Winston Churchill.

[Ezee E]

-Spike was caught up in excitement which took away from whatever he had in mind to say, because it was a pretty bad speech. Still cool to see someone overdue finally win. Seeing Samuel get excited for him and a standing ovation is what I will remember.

-The show moved fast, but can't really say there's anything memorable about it. It stuck to the awards at least. I imagine that the producers saw this happening, which caused them to try and shuffle things into the commercial, but obviously got pushback. This is a show for people who were rooting for a movie.

-Having no host is fine. Keep it to the presenters.

-Funniest presenters were probably Awkwafina and Mulaney.

-Olivia Colman probably was the deserving win (didn't see The Wife). I wish I saw a Glen reaction.

-Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga can end their charade of liking each other.

[transmogrifier]

Wish granted!

Maybe. Haven't seen it. Though I might now, to see what the fuss is about. But then I said that about The Artist and The King's Speech.

[Ivan Drago]

Urgh.

At least cynicism got me the win in my team of critics' Oscar pool this year.

[Irish]

1099886764066570241

Gorging on terrible "Green Book" takes

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-oscars-green-book-worst-best-picture-winner-20190224-story.html

https://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2018/12/causing-trouble-with-odienator-shirley.html

[Ezee E]

The best editing win surprises me. I'm trying to understand it... Even Green Book is a far better-edited movie in its progress to the South. BlackKklansman and Vice definitely stick out as the best of the five...

[Ezee E]

I think it would be pretty damn difficult to get me to watch King's Speech or the Artist ever again.

[transmogrifier]

I think it would be pretty damn difficult to get me to watch King's Speech or the Artist ever again.

Trust me, it's difficult to get me to watch them for the first time.

[Peng]

1099886764066570241

Gorging on terrible "Green Book" takes

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-oscars-green-book-worst-best-picture-winner-20190224-story.html

https://bigmediavandal.blogspot.com/2018/12/causing-trouble-with-odienator-shirley.html

Is it terrible because you like the film, or is there actually flaw in their writing? (I don't know Odeinator but like Justin Chang)

[Peng]

The best editing win surprises me. I'm trying to understand it... Even Green Book is a far better-edited movie in its progress to the South. BlackKklansman and Vice definitely stick out as the best of the five...

I mean, how can voters resist this?:

1089188260071514112

[Watashi]

On some level, Green Book is easier to swallow than Bohemian Rhapsody or Black Panther because I don't actually know anyone who likes it.

White People.

[transmogrifier]

What I love is how movie discussion these days is just a mammoth shit fight between groups:

(1) old, fuddy-duddy Academy types
(2) SJW cultural guardians
(3) Gatekeeping Letterboxd/reddit quasi-cinemaphiles
(4) Mindless mainstream consumers

Old-school critics are almost dead, online critics as a group are split between groups (2) and (3), while I tend to place rabid, mindless fanboys in group (4) - their consumption is just more narrow and often more toxic. There is some overlap between (1) and (4), though (1) tends to push back against group (2) and (4) tends to push back against (3). But pretty much, analysis of film in and of itself has faded away, and it has all become the four groups reviewing each other using individual films as forums for bitching.

[Watashi]

Black Panther winning score (Ludwig!), production design, and costume were all very deserved. First time ever a superhero film has won Best Score. That's insane.

[Watashi]

What I love is how movie discussion these days is just a mammoth shit fight between groups:

(1) old, fuddy-duddy Academy types
(2) SJW cultural guardians
(3) Gatekeeping Letterboxd/reddit quasi-cinemaphiles
(4) Mindless mainstream consumers

Old-school critics are almost dead, online critics as a group are split between groups (2) and (3), while I tend to place rabid, mindless fanboys in group (4) - their consumption is just more narrow and often more toxic. There is some overlap between (1) and (4), though (1) tends to push back against group (2) and (4) tends to push back against (3). But pretty much, analysis of film in and of itself has faded away, and it has all become the four groups reviewing each other using individual films as forums for bitching.

So what group are you in?

[transmogrifier]

So what group are you in?

3, obviously. But my gatekeeping is way better than those other fools.

[Irish]

Is it terrible because you like the film, or is there actually flaw in their writing? (I don't know Odeinator but like Justin Chang)

I like Chang, too. Odie Henderson is a frequent contributor to RogerEbert.com; he's usually worth reading.

But with those two articles, I found the writing vibrant and the thinking weak.

Here's another: https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/green-book-movie-about-racism-made-white-people-white-people-ncna938886

I don't know who Jenni Miller is, but Jesus. (I'm finding this stuff via twitter.)

[Ezee E]

The 2's are the worst and I question if they even watch some of the movies they hate and love.

That's a pretty accurate summation though.

[Ezee E]

In looking at twitter and my own facebook, it can't be a good thing for 2018 movies when the teaser of The Irishman is one of the heavier discussion moments.

[MadMan]

I have zero desire to see Green Book. I am most happy about Colman, Spidey, and Lee winning. The show works fine without a host, and the idea of it being on streaming only sounds bloody awful. No thanks.

[Morris Schæffer]

You Can't Take it with You, Gone with the Wind, All About Eve, The Bridge on the River Kwai, The Sound of Music, Slumdog Millionaire, The King's Speech, and The Artist also suck.

I like some of those, haven't seen some of those, but certainly love The Bridge on the River Kwai. And it is critically revered, which by no means indicates you should too of course.

How does it suck? Or is it more that another movie was more worthy that year?

[Morris Schæffer]

There were some snubs during the In Memoriam bit. Donen is perhaps inevitable, he will probably get his due next year, but how about Sondra Locke, Gary Kurtz, Verne Troyer, R. Lee Ermey, Dick Miller?

[Dukefrukem]

Anybody who thinks Crash is the worst best picture winner has not seen Gigi.

Or the Artist.

[Dukefrukem]

Apparently Spike Lee had a temper tantrum after the Green Book announcement.

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/25/spike-lee-nearly-stormed-out-when-green-book-won-best-picture-oscar/

[Ezee E]

Apparently Spike Lee had a temper tantrum after the Green Book announcement.

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/25/spike-lee-nearly-stormed-out-when-green-book-won-best-picture-oscar/

Based on his win, I'm guessing he was already drunk, and he's always animated.

[dreamdead]

The worst thing about Lee's behavior is that it's going to be read as petty, as self-aggrandizing. He has already spoken about a general antipathy for Farrelly's film, but context is absolutely going to be lost here.

Ultimately, the Colman win almost makes up the lackluster options elsewhere. But then I remember that Paul Schrader lost, and I get bitter again.

[Grouchy]

Apparently Spike Lee had a temper tantrum after the Green Book announcement.

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/25/spike-lee-nearly-stormed-out-when-green-book-won-best-picture-oscar/
Well, he's right. I haven't seen the movie but it looks exactly like reverse Driving Miss Daisy.

[Spinal]

Only problem with Colman winning is that she's the 2nd best performance in her own movie.

[Ivan Drago]

In looking at twitter and my own facebook, it can't be a good thing for 2018 movies when the teaser of The Irishman is one of the heavier discussion moments.

Heavy in what way? Is there a backlash against that already?

[Dukefrukem]

In looking at twitter and my own facebook, it can't be a good thing for 2018 movies when the teaser of The Irishman is one of the heavier discussion moments.

Great move by Netflix btw.

[Ezee E]

Heavy in what way? Is there a backlash against that already?

Heavy as in there's more talk about this spot than the show itself.

And yeah, I think this and the Lion King were the only trailers. Maybe one other.

[Ivan Drago]

Heavy as in there's more talk about this spot than the show itself.

And yeah, I think this and the Lion King were the only trailers. Maybe one other.

I'm crossing my fingers that it gets a bigger theatrical release than Roma did.

[Ezee E]

I'm crossing my fingers that it gets a bigger theatrical release than Roma did.

Roma's doing strong for the 50-100 markets it's still in. For a B&W Foreign movie, that has to mean something.

[baby doll]

I like some of those, haven't seen some of those, but certainly love The Bridge on the River Kwai. And it is critically revered, which by no means indicates you should too of course.

How does it suck? Or is it more that another movie was more worthy that year?Both times I've seen the film, I found that the cross-cutting between the Guinness/Hayakawa line and the Holden line prevented either story from building much momentum.

Some worthier 1957 movies: An Affair to Remember, Black River, A King in New York, Nights of Cabiria, Paths of Glory, The Sweet Smell of Success, The Tarnished Angels, Throne of Blood, What's Opera, Doc?, Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?

[Spinal]

Why was Spike wearing Love and Hate on the wrong hands (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-spike-lee-oscars-speech-trump-20190225-story.html?fbclid=IwAR0OdIvCjn voi56zpR4xcKoADOqNOjGaNTHYW54T wv34DVYMlVDXtc_9few)?

Intentional? Drunk?

[Spinal]

Radio Raheem: "Let me tell you the story of Right Hand, Left Hand. It's a tale of good and evil. Hate: it was with this hand that Cain iced his brother. Love: these five fingers, they go straight to the soul of man. The right hand: the hand of love."

[Wryan]

Best guess: he's left-handed, so his left is "the hand of love"?

[Wryan]

Some worthier 1957 movies: An Affair to Remember, Black River, A King in New York, Nights of Cabiria, Paths of Glory, The Sweet Smell of Success, The Tarnished Angels, Throne of Blood, What's Opera, Doc?, Will Success Spoil Rock Hunter?

Ones I've seen and loved. Good year!

[Spinal]

Best guess: he's left-handed, so his left is "the hand of love"?

Huh. I think you might actually be right.

[Pop Trash]

Only problem with Colman winning is that she's the 2nd best performance in her own movie.

She's only *slightly* less good than Rachel Weisz and certainly better than Emma Stone. Anyway, my fave moment of the night aside from "The Shallow" and Gillian Welch doing the Buster Scruggs song.

[Skitch]

Apparently Spike Lee had a temper tantrum after the Green Book announcement.

https://pagesix.com/2019/02/25/spike-lee-nearly-stormed-out-when-green-book-won-best-picture-oscar/


Lee also apparently then turned his back during the filmmakers’ acceptance speeches.

Deadline even compared it to the infamous time Kanye West jumped onstage when Taylor Swift won at the MTV VMAs.

Oh for fucks sake thats not even in the same universe.

Edit: Duke that was pointed at the author of the article not you

[Irish]

It sorta is? If he stormed out, everybody in attendance saw it.

That is, he made the moment about himself and shit on somebody else's moment.

Who does that? Spike is a grown man. 62 years old!

[Wryan]

You could say he's a bit.....spiky.

[Skitch]

It sorta is? If he stormed out, everybody in attendance saw it.

That is, he made the moment about himself and shit on somebody else's moment.

Who does that? Spike is a grown man. 62 years old!

I would say storming the stage and taking the mic away from the winner to say someone else shouldve won wouldve been the same. Not just exiting the room.

[Irish]

Not just exiting the room.

C'mon, dude. It's so not just that.

Spike was pretty obviously making a statement. Which, okay? I think it was in poor taste. I love the dude to death but for a wannabe iconoclast, he doesn't quite realize --- or care --- how often his line makes people wrinkle their nose. Maybe he should.

There's speaking truth to power and then there's just being a narcissist.

[Peng]

At least something pure comes out of its win:

1100209461526814720

[Grouchy]

I don't think Lee is simply angry he lost (and to a movie that's more than a little reminiscent of Driving Miss Daisy), he's angry that the Academy continues to reward manipulative garbage over challenging movies for adults. That makes his tantrum more justified in my opinion.

[Spinal]

I don't think Lee is simply angry he lost (and to a movie that's more than a little reminiscent of Driving Miss Daisy), he's angry that the Academy continues to reward manipulative garbage over challenging movies for adults. That makes his tantrum more justified in my opinion.

This, yes. It's not just that he lost. It's that he lost to the equivalent of the guy in the Celtics jersey from Do the Right Thing.

[Irish]

Lol, what the hell is wrong with you guys? Losing doesn't entitle him to throw a tantrum.

Lee has been around for over 30 years. He should be well used to losing by now because that's the nature of the beast. I mean, c'mon. These are literally life lessons they teach in little league and pee wee football.

ETA: Hollywood isn't in the business of making challenging movies for adults and they never have been. I think it's safe to say most people don't turn up at the movies every weekend to be challenged, especially these days.

But even if that were true, it isn't true with Spike, at least not consistently ("Inside Man", "Oldboy") and it's a dubious claim to make about "BlacKKKlansmen."

[Grouchy]

Eh, we can trade views on BlacKKKlansman back and forth but I don't think it's on the same level of childishness as Green Book.

What I meant is that his movie about racism lost to a more conformist movie about racism. I think that's the point instead of simply the fact that he lost. Would he have thrown the same tantrum if The Favourite or Roma had won? I don't think so.

I'm curious what Jordan Peele said to him.

[Irish]

Eh, we can trade views on BlacKKKlansman back and forth but I don't think it's on the same level of childishness as Green Book.

Both movies pander like hell in different ways. My point was there wasn't anything in "Klansmen" that approached challenging, and that was likely intentional on Lee's part. In some ways I think that's worse given Lee's filmography.

Nobody expects anything from a Farrelly brother. :D


Would he have thrown the same tantrum if The Favourite or Roma had won? I don't think so.

And? Lee's very good at grandstanding and always has been. I think it's part of why he's enjoyed a long career while some of his contemporaries have not.

[Grouchy]

Well, yeah, I came back to add that. Your point is "Hollywood will always be Hollywood". But Spike Lee will always be Spike Lee and he has been complaining about Hollywood's race issues since day one of his career. It's not surprising that he still does it.

[Yxklyx]

Nation Still Outraged 1933 Best Picture Went To ‘Cavalcade’ Instead Of ‘Lady For A Day’ (https://entertainment.theonion.com/nation-still-outraged-1933-best-picture-went-to-cavalc-1832874045#_ga=2.195776684.125 5849989.1551203164-199814265.1534164754)

I love Lady for a Day - have not seen Cavalcade. Any good?

[Irish]

But Spike Lee will always be Spike Lee and he has been complaining about Hollywood's race issues since day one of his career. It's not surprising that he still does it.

Big difference between complaining afterwards, or during an interview, or when asked a specific question about the film --- and making a scene at a formal event while people are still on the stage.

That's all I'm saying. I don't think his actions there are really all that defensible. Even from the standpoint of his own self-interest. There was money in that room and Lee turned his head and spit at it.

[Spinal]

I like that Spike Lee is angry and principled. That's the Spike Lee I want in the world. I just wish he had delivered his acceptance speech more effectively.

[Spinal]

There was money in that room and Lee turned his head and spit at it.

Good?

I mean, that's a positive quality in my book. Different strokes, I guess.

[Skitch]

Good?

I mean, that's a positive quality in my book. Different strokes, I guess.

I didn't want to be trollish, but I was gonna say...

...GOOD.

[Grouchy]

Yeah, man. Unless you worded your argument wrong I almost think you switched sides and are rooting for Lee now.

Besides, I think at this point any producer on a Lee joint that isn't Lee himself expects a Spike Lee joint from him. I'm not sure it really hurts him to "turn his back on money", so to speak.

[Skitch]

Yeah, man. Unless you worded your argument wrong I almost think you switched sides and are rooting for Lee now.


Who are you talking to? lol Me?

[baby doll]

Are we sure Lee left early in protest? Maybe he just wanted to beat the traffic, like when people leave a hockey game in the middle of the third period.

[Grouchy]

Who are you talking to? lol Me?
Hahaha no no, I was talking to Irish.

[baby doll]

This, yes. It's not just that he lost. It's that he lost to the equivalent of the guy in the Celtics jersey from Do the Right Thing.He was great in The Deer Hunter.

[Ezee E]

Are we sure Lee left early in protest? Maybe he just wanted to beat the traffic, like when people leave a hockey game in the middle of the third period.

After all, most people do leave Dodgers games early in that city.

[Ezee E]

On that note, Christian Bale reportedly did not attend any afterparties, instead going to the In-N-Out that's two blocks away from where the Oscars took place.

[Irish]

Yeah, man. Unless you worded your argument wrong I almost think you switched sides and are rooting for Lee now.

Lemme throw a crazy idea at you: It's possible to like someone & be a fan of their work & still think something they've done in their public life is trashy or awful or indefensible. (Cf: Mel Gibson, Joss Whedon, Matthew Wiener, etc.)

(Before the board literalists freak out: No, I'm not saying Lee and Gibson are on the same level. I'm saying it's possible to love Gibson on screen and loathe him as a person, and it's possible to dig Spike's movies and his message while thinking he has no fuckin' class at all.)


I'm not sure it really hurts him to "turn his back on money", so to speak.

Eh, you're probably right about that. Still seems a little suicidal to me. (Can't wait to read the interview a year from now where he bitches about not finding financiers for his next project.)

[Pop Trash]

This, yes. It's not just that he lost. It's that he lost to the equivalent of the guy in the Celtics jersey from Do the Right Thing.

He was born in Brooklyn!

[Pop Trash]

It sorta is? If he stormed out, everybody in attendance saw it.

That is, he made the moment about himself and shit on somebody else's moment.

Who does that? Spike is a grown man. 62 years old!

I kinda thought the same thing re: his age. It's a little like John Lydon still acting like a punk from '77 when he is old as dirt and most younger people don't know or care about who the fuck he is. Keep in mind Jordan Peale, Barry Jenkins, Ryan Coogler, and the entire cast of Black Panther were in the audience and didn't act like that and most of them are half of Spike Lee's age.

[Grouchy]

Lemme throw a crazy idea at you: It's possible to like someone & be a fan of their work & still think something they've done in their public life is trashy or awful or indefensible. (Cf: Mel Gibson, Joss Whedon, Matthew Wiener, etc.)
As a die-hard Roman Polanski fan, I've learned to live with that contradiction, believe me.

But seriously, I totally realize it's rude to throw a tantrum while someone else is receiving an award up on stage. I get that. But Spike showed up to the ceremony in a purple chauffeur uniform with KKK pins on the hat and elbow. I think he couldn't forgive himself if he didn't express his disgust at the win loudly and immediately.

[Peng]

Maybe not to the degree Spike did, but they definitely had a reaction. Jordan Peele didn't clap when it won (I so want to see the creator of Get Out's Bradley Whitford's Dean has a sketch on this year's awards show), and in a year of some great eye takes from Chadwick Boseman, one in which he used on Viggo, he gives us this on Best Pic win:

https://media.giphy.com/media/39t5wezUCV2A8j2DEj/giphy.gif

I really want to see what look Jordan gave in return, lol.

As for Spike, it's safe to say that his opinion on Green Book isn't contained in that one night, which would suggest he's more sore about losing, but has already been established through this awards season:

https://awardswatch.com/forums/images/smilies/spikonic.gif

[Irish]

But Spike showed up to the ceremony in a purple chauffeur uniform with KKK pins on the hat and elbow.

Heh, kinda off-topic but that's such a wildly strange way to interpret his outfit. He was wearing a bespoke suit by a designer on Saville Row and the pins were iconography taken from "BlacKKKlansman's" poster art.

[Grouchy]

Haha, I'm a little behind on my fashion designer outfits. So it wasn't intended to look like a chauffeur or bellboy?

[Irish]

Haha, I'm a little behind on my fashion designer outfits. So it wasn't intended to look like a chauffeur or bellboy?

I only know about it because he posted about the suit on Instagram. He was also wearing gold, custom-made Nike Air Jordans (commissioned by Michael Jordan himself).

But nevermind all that. I'm sorta fascinated that you've imagined Spike Lee would dress up like a servant to attend the Oscars. Where did that come from??? :D

[Grouchy]

As an ironic suit? Sort of like when Lady Gaga dressed in meat?

I'll see myself out now.

[Irish]

Ohhhhhhh! Okay. I thought it was a crazy leap to make but the idea makes sense in a meat-dress sorta way.

Carry on!

[Irish]

Steven Spielberg isn’t basking in the glow of Best Picture Oscar-winner “Green Book,” which he supported in this year’s contentious Oscar race. His Academy Award attention is now devoted to ensuring that the race never sees another “Roma” — a Netflix film backed by massive sums, that didn’t play by the same rules as its analog-studio competitors.

As far as he’s concerned, as it currently stands Netflix should only compete for awards in the Emmy arena; as the Academy Governor representing the directors branch, Spielberg is eager to support rule changes when it convenes for its annual post-Oscar meeting.

“Steven feels strongly about the difference between the streaming and theatrical situation,” said an Amblin spokesperson. “He’ll be happy if the others will join [his campaign] when that comes up [at the Academy Board of Governors meeting]. He will see what happens.”

Per the Academy, “Awards rules discussions are ongoing with the branches. And the Board will likely consider the topic at the April meeting.”



https://www.indiewire.com/2019/02/steven-spielberg-vs-netflix-oscar-academy-wars-1202047846/

Your boy Steve is at it again, Match Cut

[Dukefrukem]

I dont understand the argument? Is he just jealous that people who make movies on Netflix are not subject to studio interference? Like, if we have to go through all the red tape everyone else should too?

[baby doll]

I think Spielberg's argument is that if people watch it in a theatre, it's film (even if it's a DCP), and if people watching on Netflix, it's TV, which as film theory, strikes me as somewhat problematic.

[Irish]

I dont understand the argument? Is he just jealous that people who make movies on Netflix are not subject to studio interference? Like, if we have to go through all the red tape everyone else should too?

This was my takeaway, too. At least, functionally, that's his argument: The studios have limitations that streamers don't, so we shouldn't give awards out equally.

Which strikes me as faintly reminiscent of when TV networks complain about HBO, ratings, and the Emmys.

[Irish]

1102030424866467840
Update!

[Wryan]

I heard "Shallow" in the car while I was driving the other day. I kept waiting for it to turn into a song, let alone an Oscar-winning one. It did not.

[Irish]

1101290581014138880

IT JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER, MATCH CUT

[Dukefrukem]

1102418557760024578

[Henry Gale]

1101290581014138880

IT JUST GETS BETTER AND BETTER, MATCH CUT

:eek:

B-b-but.. his taste is usually good.

EDIT: For reference, he very frequently, adorably posted updates of his favourite movies he saw in 2018. The most recent one I found (Click to expand the picture):

1075909610962223104

[Wryan]

Someone fucking explain the Paddington 2 thing. Is it just a meme? I see it has, improbably, a 100% on RottenTomatoes. Is it genuinely actually that excellent? Or did people come together to Bee-Movie this thing into the cinematic stratosphere of internet japery? I really don't have any interest in seeing it, but there are plenty of kids' movies that are truly great, so I'd be willing to give it a chance...yet I keep detecting a weird tiny hint of lol around this Paddington 2 thing when I see it pop up, so I'm hesitant.

[Peng]

Well, if you don't think we're also putting on the internet at large too, here are our thoughts (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?7091-Paddington-2-(Paul-King)). I am afraid of it being hyped up too much at the moment, but it's genuinely lovely. Recommend seeing the first one first though.

[Spinal]

Someone fucking explain the Paddington 2 thing.

It's an extremely well-made family film. That's all there is to it.

[Mr. McGibblets]

The Paddington movies are pretty much the only live-action movies that my daughter loves.

[Irish]

Someone fucking explain the Paddington 2 thing.

Well in the same spirit I'd like someone to explain this to me:



https://i.imgur.com/6VWYXDf.jpg?1

[Wryan]

That's art.

Also, I like how everyone else's face visible in that picture could be captioned: "500% done."

[DavidSeven]

Am I the only who thinks Spielberg has a point? Why should Netflix be allowed to skirt the spirit of Academy rules and go up for awards contention when HBO and other networks have not been able to? For all practical purposes, a movie made for Netflix is a movie made for television. If competing for Oscars is important to them, then put it on exhibition in earnest like Amazon does. It's not that complicated and would likely bolster the theatrical business as a whole, which every film fanatic should be a proponent of.

[Dukefrukem]

Am I the only who thinks Spielberg has a point? Why should Netflix be allowed to skirt the spirit of Academy rules and go up for awards contention when HBO and other networks have not been able to? For all practical purposes, a movie made for Netflix is a movie made for television. If competing for Oscars is important to them, then put it on exhibition in earnest like Amazon does. It's not that complicated and would likely bolster the theatrical business as a whole, which every film fanatic should be a proponent of.

HBO, until recently, needed a cable subscription to operate. Maybe they will have a different strategy after GoTs. And why would Netflix want to share a distribution platform when they don't need to?

[Lazlo]

Am I the only who thinks Spielberg has a point? Why should Netflix be allowed to skirt the spirit of Academy rules and go up for awards contention when HBO and other networks have not been able to? For all practical purposes, a movie made for Netflix is a movie made for television. If competing for Oscars is important to them, then put it on exhibition in earnest like Amazon does. It's not that complicated and would likely bolster the theatrical business as a whole, which every film fanatic should be a proponent of.

But they aren't skirting Academy rules. All you have to do is play in a theater in New York or LA for a week and you're eligible. HBO doesn't do that so they're not eligible. So on a procedural level they're not cheating any more than a movie that comes out on VOD on the same day as the theatrical release.

On a philosophical level, I agree with wanting to preserve the theatrical experience and wish Netflix would just be cool with the windowing thing so AMC and Regal would play their movies. There's also some selfishness there because those are the main theaters in my town and I'd like to have been able to see Roma in a theater without traveling to a different city. I just can't see how a four week window hurts Netflix. They did three weeks for Roma and you can't tell me it was harmful and more likely it was a great bit of advertising for the streaming release. So I guess I agree with Spielberg, though it does seem a little like an old man yelling at the clouds. Netflix is trying to disrupt things, but that doesn't mean they're making it better.

[DavidSeven]

HBO, until recently, needed a cable subscription to operate. Maybe they will have a different strategy after GoTs. And why would Netflix want to share a distribution platform when they don't need to?

I'm not sure how the cable subscription factors into your argument. Movies made for ABC/NBC/CBS don't qualify for Oscars either, and you can receive those channels without a subscription.

Netflix can do what it wants. But if it wants to party with a club of people who put movies on exhibition at theaters, then it should do that too. If they don't need the Oscars, which I don't think they do, then they carry on doing what they do.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm not sure how the cable subscription factors into your argument. Movies made for ABC/NBC/CBS don't qualify for Oscars either, and you can receive those channels without a subscription.

Netflix can do what it wants. But if it wants to party with a club of people who put movies on exhibition at theaters, then it should do that too. If they don't need the Oscars, which I don't think they do, then they carry on doing what they do.

I realize that. But you're bringing up HBO in your argument, as if Netflix and HBO are the same. Until HBOgo, they weren't. Still aren't really.

Netflix movies are still movies. Not made for TV movies. Their platform just reaches way more people, which is the disruption factor I was referring to earlier.

[DavidSeven]

But they aren't skirting Academy rules. All you have to do is play in a theater in New York or LA for a week and you're eligible. HBO doesn't do that so they're not eligible. So on a procedural level they're not cheating any more than a movie that comes out on VOD on the same day as the theatrical release.

This is true, though I was careful to say they are skirting the spirit of the rules, which I assume are in place to allow end-of-year films to qualify for awards when there are only a few weeks left in the calendar year. Netflix obviously decided to exploit that rule with Roma, giving it a bare minimal theatrical release for the sole purpose of Oscar contention.

[Ezee E]

I feel like Roma was in theaters for a lot longer than, say... Can You Forgive Me. It played in Denver from December until the Oscars. It got a 70 MM release in Los Angeles. It played by the rules that were set up.

Spielberg just wants to change the rules to remove the exploit that Netflix took full advantage of.

So, strong play Netflix.

Next year, they'll have to edit their approach. And I'm fine with that. I don't want to see The Irishman on the small screen. Roma sucks on the small screen.

I don't really think anyone's in the wrong.

[baby doll]

For once, I don't think Netflix is the problem; the problem is the outmoded Oscar eligibility rules which have no relation whatsoever to how people actually watch movies in this century.

Incidentally, I'm not sure why seeing a Scorsese film on a small screen would be a problem when his films are mostly shot in close-up and medium shots. What are you gonna miss by watching The Irishmen on TV, DeNiro's wrinkles and jowls?

[Ezee E]

WITH that, with Spielberg's notion, they should cancel screener rules if the idea is to respect the big screen, but we know that isn't changing. Bragging, trading, and gifting screeners for Christmas is what all of Los Angeles does in December and January.

[Peng]

Yeah, whatever point about theater experience Spielberg has feels a bit baseless when he hones in to make it about Oscar and its eligibility, since the vast Academy voters probably haven't seen most of the "eligible" films in theater.

[Pop Trash]

Netflix will probably comply with whatever rules the Academy puts up for certain films. If the Academy says the films have to play for a month before dropping on TV, then The Irishman (or whatever they want) will play in a couple theaters in NYC and LA for a month beforehand. HBO has dealt with this i/r/t their documentaries, specifically OJ: Made in America which was Academy eligible for playing at Sundance and (maybe?) a theater or two in NYC before it showed on HBO. Later it (very deservedly imo) won the Oscar for doco.

Sadly, Spielberg is still one of the kings of Hollywood so he'll probably whine and throw a fit at the Academy meetings, but in 2019 Netflix and Amazon have way more money and power than Spielberg. It ain't the 80s anymore, Spielbergo.