Match Cut Directors Consensus - Mel Gibson

[StanleyK]

No guarantee I'll actually tally the results, but post your lists.

In case tallying does eventually happen, please follow the format of the original threads to make the job easier: chronological order with a rating from 1 to 10 (half-points allowed) next to each movie.

Braveheart - 5.5
The Passion of the Christ - 5.5
Apocalypto - 8.5
Hacksaw Ridge - 5.5

[StanleyK]

I also vaguely remember The Man Without a Face being a decent movie, but I have basically zero interest in rewatching it.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Man Without a Face - don't remember
Braveheart - B
The Passion of the Christ - B-
Apocalypto - A

[Spinal]

Braveheart - 1
The Passion of the Christ - 3

[baby doll]

I remember liking The Man Without a Face and Braveheart in elementary school and not liking The Passion of the Christ in art school but it's been too long since I've seen them for me to assign any of them number ratings.

[Torgo]

The Man Without a Face - 6
Braveheart - 7
Apocalypto - 8
Hacksaw Ridge - 8

[StanleyK]

Braveheart - 1

Damn, you don't see any redeeming qualities in the movie at all? James Horner's score alone should be good for at least a 2 or 3.

[Spinal]

Damn, you don't see any redeeming qualities in the movie at all? James Horner's score alone should be good for at least a 2 or 3.

That's not how I score things.

[baby doll]

Damn, you don't see any redeeming qualities in the movie at all? James Horner's score alone should be good for at least a 2 or 3.I gotta side with Spinal on this one, at least in general principle (as noted earlier, it's been too long for me to hazard an evaluation of Braveheart, whether yay or nay): It's not the score as music that matters but what it contributes to the film; the quality of the music is not in itself a justification for putting it in a film.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm not even sure if Braveheart is good or not, but after watching Passion and Apocalypto and learning about his personal fuckups, it becomes clear that the flick's a Oscar-friendly variation on his general obsession with expurgation through suffering and martyrdom. When Wallace is getting drawn and quartered, we're meant to believe that it's both the worst and the best thing the man can experience (something Passion makes more clear and Apocalypto subverts with its sacrifices unwilling participants in a pagan charade - a burlesque of his prior film).

Again, none of this really states whether or not the film is good, but it's sorta fascinating to watch Gibson work his shit out.* In the same way I'm fascinated by Aronofsky using movie after movie to explore obsessive assholes chasing holiness/providence and killing themselves or those around them in the process.

(*: Although less so after being reminded last year that he didn't just rag on the Jews, he also, in all likelihood, beat his wife while she was holding his child.)

[Spinal]

To me, Braveheart is so utterly wrong philosophically and morally that its technical quality becomes irrelevant. Whether Gibson is shouting anti-semitic slurs, drunkenly harassing female police officers or making his big budget fascist propoganda, it's all the product of the same sick mind. To me, a good message doesn't make for a good film. But I cannot think of a film worth celebrating that contains a world view this dangerously misguided.

[Pop Trash]

Braveheart - 7
The Passion of the Christ - 6

Like most people, I loved Braveheart when it came out when I was in high school, but I've cooled on it since. Like Forrest Gump, the criticisms pointed out by others over the years have gotten to me. It's also hard to view it as it's own thing and not a by-product of Mel Gibson's worldview, which was less apparent back in 1995. I'm still fascinated by Gibson since I think he's a technically skilled director with a very specific POV (an auteurist in every sense). I also think Braveheart isn't nearly acknowledged as much as it should be for being incredibly influential on bringing R-rated violence and gore into battle scenes in historical epics. Clearly influential on Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, The Patriot, among other movies.

[Pop Trash]

To me, Braveheart is so utterly wrong philosophically and morally that its technical quality becomes irrelevant. Whether Gibson is shouting anti-semitic slurs, drunkenly harassing female police officers or making his big budget fascist propoganda, it's all the product of the same sick mind. To me, a good message doesn't make for a good film. But I cannot think of a film worth celebrating that contains a world view this dangerously misguided.

Do you feel the same way about Roman Polanski?

[Spinal]

Do you feel the same way about Roman Polanski?

Nope.

[StanleyK]

To me, Braveheart is so utterly wrong philosophically and morally that its technical quality becomes irrelevant. Whether Gibson is shouting anti-semitic slurs, drunkenly harassing female police officers or making his big budget fascist propoganda, it's all the product of the same sick mind. To me, a good message doesn't make for a good film. But I cannot think of a film worth celebrating that contains a world view this dangerously misguided.

True, Mel Gibson is a piece of shit, but how is the movie Braveheart itself so morally wrong?

[Spinal]

True, Mel Gibson is a piece of shit, but how is the movie Braveheart itself so morally wrong?

Cracking up. If you have to ask ...

[StanleyK]

It's not the score as music that matters but what it contributes to the film; the quality of the music is not in itself a justification for putting it in a film.

What I meant to say is that James Horner's score is not only good music in itself, but also that it works in the context of the movie. It's a bombastic orchestral score used in such a way that doesn't feel overbearing or manipulative, but that appropriately conveys the emotions of the scenes. When I recall the music, I recall just how I felt when Wallace screamed 'freedom'.

[StanleyK]

Cracking up. If you have to ask ...

Well, I'm asking. I perceived the movie to be a simplistic story about how getting revenge is good and not having freedom is bad. Middling stuff, but not immoral.

[Skitch]

Well, I'm asking. I perceived the movie to be a simplistic story about how getting revenge is good and not having freedom is bad. Middling stuff, but not immoral.

I believe he means the way the film twists historical facts into film inaccuracies, for starters.

[Spinal]

I just don't have a lot of interest in getting into a big conversation about Braveheart. I saw it over 20 years ago. It was one of the worst theater experiences I've ever had. I would have walked out, but I was stubbornly trying to get through it because it was nominated for Best Picture that year. Then Passion of the Christ came out and people were like, whoa, when did he become a right-wing nut case? And I was like, did you see Braveheart?