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View Full Version : Cold War (Pawel Pawlikowski)



Ezee E
09-02-2018, 07:24 AM
IMDB (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6543652/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

https://pics.filmaffinity.com/zimna_wojna-793668067-mmed.jpg

Ivan Drago
09-02-2018, 09:05 PM
Can't wait for this. It looks beautiful.

Grouchy
12-05-2018, 03:12 PM
https://pics.filmaffinity.com/zimna_wojna-793668067-large.jpg

Grouchy
12-05-2018, 03:19 PM
They don't usually make them like this anymore. Cold War is a slick romance / drama film with near perfect editing, cinematography and atmosphere. What makes it stand out the most, though, is its unique rythm. Every scene seemingly has lots of room to breathe yet the accumulative effect of the storytelling is frantic and makes you feel like you've lived for years with these two characters. Truly remarkable. I remember really admiring Ida, just not as much as this one.

Ezee E
12-05-2018, 09:05 PM
I thought I made a poll on this already.

EDIT: I did. But the votes from Grouchy's threads didn't get merged in, fyi.

Grouchy
12-05-2018, 09:11 PM
Huh, sorry. I searched for it.

Ivan Drago
02-01-2019, 06:29 PM
I loved this. (http://www.foxforcefivenews.com/cold-war-is-an-intimate-powerful-romance-thats-beautiful-in-black-white-review/)

Pop Trash
02-02-2019, 03:26 AM
It's a 'yay' from me, dawg, but just barely. If I wanted to be a glib asshole, I could call it A Star Is Boring, but Cold War doesn't deserve that treatment, even though I believe the surface level prestige checklist is elevating the film's status. Academy aspect ratio? Check. Black & white cinematography? Check. Foreign language? Check. Period piece? Check.

It's a good film, but the, um, cold communism and episodic nature -where fifteen years is fast forwarded through a brisk 90 minutes- kept me at a distance. As soon as I figured out where the couple was and what was going on, the film fast forwarded in time some more. In theory this is an interesting tactic, but the snapshots in time kept me emotionally unengaged. Pixar did it better in the opening five minutes of Up than the entirety of Cold War.

The "Rock Around the Clock" scene is my favorite, and the one time that the film seems to loosen up. That said, Philippe Garrel was doing similar shit fifteen years ago and I don't remember him ever getting a Best Director nomination from the Academy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qabTa3M4D6I

baby doll
02-02-2019, 06:54 PM
I believe the surface level prestige checklist is elevating the film's status. Academy aspect ratio? Check. Black & white cinematography? Check. Foreign language? Check. Period piece? Check.I find this rather glib and facile. Maybe that's why the film is doing so well in its awards season run, but simply pointing out that it's a period film in black and white and the Academy ratio doesn't tell us if the film is any good or not.

A more pertinent question is why the film is in black and white and the Academy ratio. One reason seems to be Pawlikowski's commitment, both here and in Ida, to a very Hollywood conception of photo-realism: Shooting a period film in black-and-white and the Academy ratio is more "realistic" because that's how the 1950s and 1960s appeared in most Polish films from the era (cf., Raging Bull, Schindler's List, Good Night and Good Luck). Another reason for shooting in the Academy ratio is Pawlikowski's taste for arranging his compositions vertically rather than horizontally (unlike Polish films from the postwar period).


It's a good film, but the, um, cold communism and episodic nature -where fifteen years is fast forwarded through a brisk 90 minutes- kept me at a distance. As soon as I figured out where the couple was and what was going on, the film fast forwarded in time some more. In theory this is an interesting tactic, but the snapshots in time kept me emotionally unengaged. Pixar did it better in the opening five minutes of Up than the entirety of Cold War.Again, saying the film keeps the viewer at a distance isn't saying very much, since that's clearly deliberate. The question is: Does keeping us at a distance serve any purpose? For starters, the film's elliptical narrative creates a different kind of interest than a classical film like Up (or A Star Is Born, for that matter). As David Bordwell observes of art cinema generally, "it is a cinema of psychological effects in search of their causes."


The "Rock Around the Clock" scene is my favorite, and the one time that the film seems to loosen up. That said, Philippe Garrel was doing similar shit fifteen years ago and I don't remember him ever getting a Best Director nomination from the Academy.If you want to play that game, one could argue that Fellini got there way back in 1960 with La dolce vita (and there may be earlier examples for all I know). What's different about Pawlikowski's film is that after about an hour or so of listening mainly to ersatz Polish folk music and slow jazz, rock 'n' roll regains some of the newness it must've had for people at the time.

Pop Trash
02-02-2019, 10:49 PM
I find your narrow view of what is / is not "art" cinema to be bullshit, baby doll. I would argue that the opening of Up is more radical than the entirety of Cold War. My entire gripe is that -aside from the elliptical editing and storytelling- there is nothing really unique about this film aside from the aforementioned surface "YOU ARE WATCHING AN ART HOUSE FILM" signifiers: black & white cinematography, academy ratio, Polish language, period piece trappings. All of this would be totally fine if any type of chemistry or emotion was developed between the main characters. It never felt like love, chemistry, want, need, yearning between them. Obviously your mileage may vary, but some films off the top of my head that project this the best would be Linklater's Before trilogy, Blue is the Warmest Color, and yes A Star Is Born 2K18. The chemistry between Gaga and Cooper is not here at all and Gaga's performance in general is much better than Joanna Kulig (who is fine, but I'm not seeing any type of 'award worthy' performance here). The problem is the elliptical storytelling that gives zero chance for this relationship to breathe or develop because the movie (excuse me, FILM) seems to get bored of its own characters and wants to skip ahead in the timeline to another location.

baby doll
02-02-2019, 11:47 PM
I find your narrow view of what is / is not "art" cinema to be bullshit, baby doll.I'm using the term "art cinema" in the sense that Bordwell uses it, as a non-evaluative label for narrative films that motivate their deviations from classical norms as realism or authorial expressiveness. I never implied that classical films are inherently less artistic than what I'm calling art films.


I would argue that the opening of Up is more radical than the entirety of Cold War. My entire gripe is that -aside from the elliptical editing and storytelling- there is nothing really unique about this film aside from the aforementioned surface "YOU ARE WATCHING AN ART HOUSE FILM" signifiers: black & white cinematography, academy ratio, Polish language, period piece trappings. All of this would be totally fine if any type of chemistry or emotion was developed between the main characters. It never felt like love, chemistry, want, need, yearning between them. Obviously your mileage may vary, but some films off the top of my head that project this the best would be Linklater's Before trilogy, Blue is the Warmest Color, and yes A Star is Born 2K18. The chemistry between Gaga and Cooper is not here at all and Gaga's performance in general is much better than Joanna Kulig (who is fine, but I'm not seeing any type of 'award worthy' performance here). The problem is the elliptical storytelling that gives zero chance for this relationship to breathe or develop because the movie (excuse me, FILM) seems to get bored of its own characters and wants to skip ahead in the timeline to another location.My gripe with your gripe is that you're applying an inappropriate standard. If Pawlikowski had wanted to make a movie like those you cite, that would be a different story, but clearly he's attempting something else--not because he's bored with the characters but because he wants to create a sense of mystery about their emotions and motivations (which is not to claim he's doing anything very "radical" here).

Also, I'm not sure how the Polish language is an "art house signifier" in a film set largely in Poland. Is Pawlikowski's My Summer of Love any less of an art house movie?

Pop Trash
02-03-2019, 12:01 AM
Also, I'm not sure how the Polish language is an "art house signifier" in a film set largely in Poland. Is Pawlikowski's My Summer of Love any less of an art house movie?

It is to some people, including critics, cinephiles, and (some) members of the Academy. I obviously have no problem with a foreign language ipso facto, but in conjunction with everything else I mentioned, it certainly adds to the artiste signifiers of the film to an English language audience. A film like A Star Is Born is for the unwashed hoi polli who don't understand TRUE CINEMA that's in black & white, academy ratio, w/ subtitles and takes place in an evocative place like communist Poland, not some 2018 America involving a country rock dipshit. You see, that's not REAL ART.

baby doll
02-03-2019, 12:56 AM
It is to some people, including critics, cinephiles, and (some) members of the Academy. I obviously have no problem with a foreign language ipso facto, but in conjunction with everything else I mentioned, it certainly adds to the artiste signifiers of the film to an English language audience. A film like A Star Is Born is for the unwashed hoi polli who don't understand TRUE CINEMA that's in black & white, academy ratio, w/ subtitles and takes place in an evocative place like communist Poland, not some 2018 America involving a country rock dipshit. You see, that's not REAL ART.Can you actually name a critic, cinephile, or Academy member who said that films have to be in black and white, the Academy ratio, and in a language other than English in order to be considered as art?

Spinal
02-03-2019, 05:41 AM
This one really moved me. I know it's Polish, but it made me feel like I was watching a Czech New Wave film in its original run. Just about every scene is a knockout without being ostentatious or showy. Beautiful exploration of a relationship that takes on more and more meaning as time passes. Loved the music, and the elegant exploration of how oppressive government can suffocate personal passions. I'm hoping to see this one again soon. It goes right to the top of my list for 2018.

Grouchy
02-03-2019, 04:11 PM
The chemistry between Gaga and Cooper is not here at all and Gaga's performance in general is much better than Joanna Kulig.
Ugh, dude, no.

Spinal
02-04-2019, 01:59 AM
This film isn't better than A Star is Born because it's Polish or because it's in black-and-white. It's better because the narrative is more satisfying, because the thematic exploration is more rich, and because every damn scene is freaking gorgeous.

Pop Trash
02-04-2019, 02:09 PM
This film isn't better than A Star is Born because it's Polish or because it's in black-and-white. It's better because the narrative is more satisfying, because the thematic exploration is more rich, and because every damn scene is freaking gorgeous.

I'm not sure what the "thematic exploration" is? Communism sucks? I also emphatically disagree that the "narrative is more satisfying" when the film gives the characters zero room to breathe or develop, which would then create any sense of chemistry between them. I gleaned absolutely nothing that made me think these two people love each other, and as such felt absolutely nothing at the end other than "welp, that sucks." The cinematography is nice, but I still think Roma is the MVP of 2k18 b&w and First Reformed is the MVP of 2k18 academy ratio.

I guess I'll be the "Cold War is overrated" guy to counter the nascent "Roma is overrated" crowd. It's about as good as Control (which it sorta reminded me of) which means it's "fine" but nothing exceptional.

Spinal
02-04-2019, 04:15 PM
I'm not sure what the "thematic exploration" is? Communism sucks?

I mean, you could just as easily say that A Star is Born boils down to "Alcoholism sucks". To me, the point of Cold War is not that their romance is perfect or that their love is pure. It's that because of governments and borders and all that goes with it, they are not free to simply let their relationship play out for better or for worse. They tragically see each other in glimpses through time. Their time together feels fleeting throughout, an intentional and effective directorial choice. They keep thinking that there should be a time and place and a culture where their lives together make sense. And in the end ... well, you could say that they find it. I don't really care whether or not a film has pretensions to high art or whatever. If it doesn't move me, I'll say so. This one moved me deeply. I don't really get your assertion that it's pitched as some elite viewer. It doesn't require a deep level of sophistication or knowledge. It's just a well-made movie about easily understandable human emotions.

Pop Trash
02-04-2019, 04:58 PM
I guess I think Cold War is about as deep about the oppression of communism on musicians as A Star Is Born is about the oppression of alcoholism (or any substance abuse) on musicians. Part of my reaction stems out of expectations. If I went to a film festival knowing nothing about these two films other than the cast & crew, I would fully expect a Lady Gaga vehicle directed by the dude from the fuggin' Hangover movies to be much worse than it is, and fully expect a new film by the acclaimed director of Ida and My Summer of Love (neither of which I admit I have seen, so maybe all of his films are overrated) to be much better than it is. Also, the cinematography in A Star Is Born is very good. It might not have the snap surface level DUDE! ART! of academy ratio and/or b&w, but it's very well lensed. Shot by Darren Aronofsky's DP Matthew Libatique.

baby doll
02-04-2019, 05:14 PM
I'm not sure what the "thematic exploration" is? Communism sucks? I also emphatically disagree that the "narrative is more satisfying" when the film gives the characters zero room to breathe or develop, which would then create any sense of chemistry between them. I gleaned absolutely nothing that made me think these two people love each other, and as such felt absolutely nothing at the end other than "welp, that sucks." The cinematography is nice, but I still think Roma is the MVP of 2k18 b&w and First Reformed is the MVP of 2k18 academy ratio.

I guess I'll be the "Cold War is overrated" guy to counter the nascent "Roma is overrated" crowd. It's about as good as Control (which it sorta reminded me of) which means it's "fine" but nothing exceptional.Your claim that the film is overrated would be more compelling if you could demonstrate that the film is attempting to elicit a strong sympathetic response from the spectator--just as my criticism of Roma that the camerawork is distracting is only valid if we accept the premise that Cuarón wants us to care strongly about the film's protagonist. (That said, if you were going to make the case that Cuarón wants to estrange us from her, it would be necessary to explain why that estrangement is productive, as I attempted to do in my earlier comment on Cold War.)

With regards to the question of who wore it better, it depends on what you take to be the function of these technical choices. From a purely decorative standpoint, I find Pawlikowski's vertical compositions more inventive and varied than Schrader's alternation of rigidly centred and conspicuously decentred compositions (which becomes mechanical and formulaic after a while), but if you want to argue his style serves other functions (denotative, expressive, thematic), I'd love to hear your arguments. On the other hand, Roma lacks even the intertextual motivation for shooting in black and white that Pawlikowski's film has (by 1970, most films globally were shot in colour), and thus the cinematography really is just an art movie signifier (though in terms of visual detail, textures, and the range of tonalities, it is technically flawless).

Grouchy
02-04-2019, 06:35 PM
The comparison is not ridiculous because both films deal with a tempestuous love affair within a certain timeframe. I find Cold War better in every aspect and, like Spinal, I don't think that has to do with artistic flourishes like the aspect ratio or the cinematography but with the effectiveness of the drama, the writing and the performances. Of course, this is not an absolute truth, artistic appreciation is subjective and so on, but it's my grain of salt.