View Full Version : Incredibles 2 (Brad Bird)
Henry Gale
06-14-2018, 09:10 AM
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Henry Gale
06-14-2018, 09:23 AM
I'm going to sleep on it, and maybe even be compelled to see it again to make sure I saw the right movie (and also I dozed off for a minute in its big, smashy action climax), but.. I dunno. Having loved the original forever, this is a case where I really wish they just left me yearning for a sequel instead of actually making one. Or at least this one.
The action setpieces, especially the ones early on, are extremely well-crafted and exciting, there's one chase sequence accompanied withe voiceover of the person they're after that's pretty stunning and even haunting, and there are some funny character moments along the way, but then...it just kind of plays as you'd expect, by the numbers in the order they're meant to go, and the engagement just began to fizzle for me. Not to mention the hurt of it dawning on me that this was becoming a lower-tier Pixar work that stems from a Top 5 effort from them.
Just a generally disheartening experience that feels bafflingly content with meeting expectations and little else. It's sturdy, well-crafted, and functional, but so are condos. Doesn't mean we need another one.
I might like Tomorrowland more than this. :'-(
Watashi
06-15-2018, 07:23 AM
I hate to say this, but I might agree with Henry Gale on this one. Don't get me wrong, Bird is still one of the best action directors working today and can stage a helluva set piece. The monorail chase sequence is breathtaking. Yet Incredibles 2 (I hate how it's not THE Incredibles 2) feels like the next episode in a TV series rather than a true sequel. It plays like the greatest hits of what you loved about the first Incredibles without really expanding on the characters. If you thought the politics were messy in the original, then the sequel is all over the place.
I certainly dug it and will see it again but from someone who saw The Incredibles SEVEN times opening weekend, this didn't capture the insane height I felt from 2004.
Dukefrukem
06-15-2018, 10:06 AM
Did you really see the first movie 7 times?
transmogrifier
06-15-2018, 12:56 PM
I’ve only seen The Incredibles once, and it was enough. That and Ratatouille were peak overrated Pixar. Luckily Wall-E came along and justified the deification.
Ivan Drago
06-15-2018, 02:57 PM
I might like Tomorrowland more than this. :'-(
I hated Tomorrowland so this isn't a good sign.
Knowing that even Wats was underwhelmed isn't helping my expectations, either.
Dukefrukem
06-15-2018, 03:01 PM
Sequels that are better the original, go!
Empire Strikes Back
The Two Towers
[/end]
I mean, the chances of this being BETTER than the first movie are so minute.
It doesn't reinvent the genre or anything, so if anyone has any sort of wild expectations like that, then sure, I can see how you can come out disappointed. It's just another really all around solid entry, which honestly was all I was expecting or hoping it to be.
Watashi
06-15-2018, 05:59 PM
Did you really see the first movie 7 times?
In the first three days of release? Yes.
I've it seen probably 50 more times since then.
Just out of curiosity for those who were underwhelmed by this movie, had it come out say 2 or 3 years after the original, as opposed to 14, would you still consider it a disappointment?
Pop Trash
06-15-2018, 07:59 PM
Sequels that are better the original, go!
Empire Strikes Back
The Two Towers
Godfather 2
Mad Max 2
Aliens
Evil Dead 2
Addams Family Values
Friday the 13th IV
Henry Gale
06-15-2018, 09:33 PM
Godfather 2
Mad Max 2
Aliens
Evil Dead 2
Addams Family Values
Friday the 13th IV
If it helps you guys readjust your expectations based on my on taste, just know that I also only think Aliens is mildly good.
Alien to Aliens is actually a pretty good quality comparison to Incredibles 2 for me: An all-time gem in my eyes that has a follow-up that's still solid, but such a dive from the original's greatness that it's frustrating and disheartening even if it's perfectly fine.
EDIT: I also thought more about my Tomorrowland quip, and okay, I'd say it falls more as a 5.5 to 6.0 for me and Incredibles 2 is somewhere in the 6.0 to 6.5 range. Either way, I still love ya, Brad! Just not exactly these last couple works.
Is it really such a dive, though? Cause I pretty much watched the films back to back, and came out of the new one feeling it's perfectly on par with the first.
Again, I can't help but feel there'd be no such disappointment if it weren't for the long gap between releases, and the expectations that may have grown in that time.
Henry Gale
06-15-2018, 09:57 PM
I'd say for me the long wait roughly went from:
2004-2009: "Ah I really wish they'd make a sequel to The Incredibles, one of my favourite Pixar movies! But the studio doesn't do sequels outside of Toy Story, so I am fine with it never happening, as they are making tons of great original movies yearly."
2010-2014: "Okay, well now that Pixar is making sequels full-time, they gotta do the The Incredibles 2! But for now, I still love and cherish the original just fine!"
2015-Right before it was officially announced: "Hmm, these sequels Pixar is making aren't really of comparable quality to the originals. I do like Monsters University and the last act of Toy Story 3, but now I only want them to do an Incredibles 2 if it seems as if it can be on par with the original."
Now: "Yeah, this is what I was worried about."
What about it did you feel wasn't on par with the original?
Dukefrukem
06-15-2018, 10:08 PM
I mean... Toy Story 3 is in the top 5 Pixar camp. Far better than the first two.
For me, this was nothing even remotely close to a Finding Nemo to Finding Dory type scenario in terms of quality from film to film. This was far closer in line to a Toy Story to Toy Story 2.
transmogrifier
06-15-2018, 11:13 PM
Sequels that are better the original, go!
Empire Strikes Back
The Two Towers
[/end]
I mean, the chances of this being BETTER than the first movie are so minute.
Before Sunset
The Two Towers
Gremlins 2
Aliens
Empire
Ocean’s 12
Fast Five
Final Destination 2
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight (though I don’t really like it, it’s better than BB)
Thor 3
Bill and Teds Bogus Journey
Addams Family Values
Terminator 2
Toy Story 3
Pop Trash
06-16-2018, 06:04 PM
Before Sunset
The Two Towers
Gremlins 2
Aliens
Empire
Ocean’s 12
Fast Five
Final Destination 2
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight (though I don’t really like it, it’s better than BB)
Thor 3
Bill and Teds Bogus Journey
Addams Family Values
Terminator 2
Toy Story 3
Hot Shots! Part Deux
Pop Trash
06-16-2018, 06:19 PM
Best Threequels?
Goldfinger
Return of the Jedi
Return of the King
Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome
Toy Story 3
Thor 3
A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors
Before Midnight
IJ and the Last Crusade
Army of Darkness
Superman III (you heard me)
Philip J. Fry
06-18-2018, 02:15 PM
For me, this was nothing even remotely close to a Finding Nemo to Finding Dory type scenario in terms of quality from film to film. This was far closer in line to a Toy Story to Toy Story 2.Ditto. This movie was great.
Pop Trash
06-21-2018, 04:38 AM
I'm with Henry and Wats. This movie was mehcredible. The bit with Jack-Jack and the raccoon is a pretty great Tex Avery inspired lunacy, but after that I really wish they calmed down with Jack-Jack (I'm sure I'm in the minority, since my audience was eating that shit up). I kept fantasizing about the movie just breaking off and following Violet (a character I love) for an hour, but that's never going to happen. Also, I can't be the only one that thought of Speed 2: Cruise Control at the end of the final set piece?
DavidSeven
06-21-2018, 07:03 AM
The setpieces are pretty stellar. It’s just not particularly funny (and it really wants to be) or moving. The setup is a little old hat and feels dated. Story hits basically all the beats you expect after the first 10 minutes. It felt like there should’ve been more development with the older kids, maybe.
I don’t know, it’s entertaining and solid and all that. But it’s also sort of just there. Lacks the heart and imagination of their better efforts. Truly, a Pixar movie that exists.
Wryan
06-25-2018, 06:45 PM
I’ve only seen The Incredibles once, and it was enough. That and Ratatouille were peak overrated Pixar. Luckily Wall-E came along and justified the deification.
The wedding's off.
Wryan
06-25-2018, 06:51 PM
Anyway, this was a mild, bubbly diversion, but I didn't think it hit it out like the original. It had a few big bursts of joy (like the meal at the Cute Boy's family's restaurant and the raccoon), and I appreciated the swap in perspective from Bob to Helen, but otherwise it feels pared down--like you feel surprised they had ten-plus years to come up with something and delivered this. The comparison to a TV episode feel after the first movie is dead on. Before word about this sequel was out, I was really hoping they'd jump into the future a bit--Violet with a fiance sort of era--instead of pick up literally where they left off, which serves as a metaphor for the movie's lukewarm success: we haven't really moved much further than where we ended last time. It's...fine though. It's nice.
Wryan
06-25-2018, 07:00 PM
Also Jack-Jack being essentially impervious sucks a lot of air out of the thing. That vein of palpable danger running through the first one isn't really here.
Pop Trash
06-25-2018, 08:41 PM
Also Jack-Jack being essentially impervious sucks a lot of air out of the thing. That vein of palpable danger running through the first one isn't really here.
Yeah, seriously. I kept thinking "are they trying to outdo Superman with the amount of random powers this kid has?" Once he turned into a demon and later into a giant baby version, I checked out. On the other hand, the little kids in my theater were rolling at everything Jack-Jack did, so what do I know? Brad Bird knows his audience.
He turned into a demon and displayed a number of other random powers in the first one, though. :\
Also Jack-Jack being essentially impervious sucks a lot of air out of the thing. That vein of palpable danger running through the first one isn't really here.
I'd also disagree with this, as his random powers made it a constant hassle for them to try and keep up with him and make sure he's staying out of trouble, neither doing harm to himself, or inadvertantly, any of them. It added a series of ongoing obstacles for the rest to have to juggle while they're battling the bad guys.
Lacks the first one's unified, sometimes gut-wrenching drive of domestic dysfunction, and the villain plot here seems to run straight through any other interesting story and thematic strand, instead of being parallel to other ideas like Syndrome's. I would love to hear how the original A.I. villain, before Pixar switching release dates of Toy Story 4 and Incredibles 2 forced Brad Bird to hurry and pare down his sequel, would be developed.
Still, as an action comedy, it excels deliriously, continuously finding creative, can-you-top-this? ways to deliver in both departments. Its drama and themes, especially ones revolving around its villain, may be eventually half-baked, making the film less rewarding than the original overall. But compensating by having one of the year's great joke machines (in addition to that raccoon fight, I can't express how much I love Jack-Jack's scenes with Edna Mode) and several of the superhero genre's best action set-pieces (the film's well thought-out, fluid use of superpowers, in both team-ups and in-fighting, tops its current live-action counterparts easily) isn't too bad, either. 8/10
Grouchy
07-03-2018, 01:12 PM
I hate to say this, but I might agree with Henry Gale on this one. Don't get me wrong, Bird is still one of the best action directors working today and can stage a helluva set piece. The monorail chase sequence is breathtaking. Yet Incredibles 2 (I hate how it's not THE Incredibles 2) feels like the next episode in a TV series rather than a true sequel. It plays like the greatest hits of what you loved about the first Incredibles without really expanding on the characters. If you thought the politics were messy in the original, then the sequel is all over the place.
I certainly dug it and will see it again but from someone who saw The Incredibles SEVEN times opening weekend, this didn't capture the insane height I felt from 2004.
This is exactly how I feel. I wouldn't hesitate to call The Incredibles the best superhero film ever made, and this sequel doesn't fare very well against that.
It also suffers from overstating the themes of the first one - I mean, the plot literally goes back to the same problem of the superhero ban that created the conflict of the first one... the kids even talk about this repetition out loud! Still enjoyed it, I love the characters. The highlight was Jack-Jack vs. raccoon.
Grouchy
07-03-2018, 05:40 PM
Oh and, by the way, the short film was beautiful.
MadMan
07-12-2018, 05:57 AM
The first one is better, however I still enjoyed the sequel. They waited too long to make another one, and the actual baddie is kind of weak sauce. I liked the action sequences, though, yet Incredibles 2 had a lot more humor than the first one did.
MadMan
07-12-2018, 05:58 AM
Oh and, by the way, the short film was beautiful.
Yes. Heart warming, too.
transmogrifier
07-21-2018, 05:43 AM
Fourteen years for a story that could have been scribbled on the back of a napkin in 30 minutes by a bored studio exec, with yet another "hidden" villain cliche, only this time a little more tenuous and silly?
Yep, that's what we get. Great action set pieces aren't ultimately enough to justify the interminable plot stuff around them, with the other totally generic superheroes taking up too much room, and the tired "hahahah a dad being a parent, what a laugh right?" story strand that is almost completely divorced from Elasticagirl's adventures. Should have been more focused on the kids - it only really sparks to life when Dash and Violet have to work on their own (though that said, you are invisible Violet - sneak up on them and steal their glasses girl!), but it does not last nearly long enough. Would have been better to avoid another rehash of the first film's illegal superhero stuff and had it been about controlling Jack-Jack's powers in order to stay out of trouble, and then actually write a complex villain who kidnaps Jack-Jack for some reason, giving the story a bit more of an emotional trajectory, rather than just another "foil a random villain's faintly stupid plan" story.
Grouchy
07-21-2018, 06:58 AM
You nailed it on the head, trans.
Skitch
07-21-2018, 06:19 PM
"hahahah a dad being a parent, what a laugh right?"
I haven't seen the film yet but this even pissed me off in the trailer.
Dead & Messed Up
11-17-2018, 05:48 AM
Yeah, I upvoted this, but only just, and I fully expect it to vaporize out of my mind within a year's time, except for maybe the raccoon fight. And when an inconsequential raccoon fight is the most interesting thing in a movie like this, you have problems.
The big thing I got was that this film didn't feel clearly seen or impassioned. The biggest dropoff comes from Syndrome being replaced with Sister Woman, and after that from a general loss of stakes. The third act especially leans on the heroes knocking sunglasses off of other heroes. Which they do pretty effortlessly. And it's crazy how the ostensible conflict of the film is Helen buying into her own hype while Bob suffers under the pressure of child-rearing, but that doesn't seem to tie into a deeper emotional conflict between the two of them. There's no strong conflict going into the final act, because the villain's case is not compelling, and Bob/Helen don't even need to reconcile, because they've already resolved their problems independently. Which is fine, but I'm left wondering where the character drama is, apart from the imminent threat to Municiberg.
But seriously, they should've really rethought the villain. On that note, completely agree with Trans that the "hidden villain" approach is just tired as hell. Please stop. Please stop.
EDIT: The action is fantastic, frequently edging toward incoherence but always staying on the right side.
Skitch
11-17-2018, 11:50 AM
I enjoyed the film plenty, but don't disagree with any of the criticisms in this thread.
I agree, the raccoon fight was my favorite part of the movie, but I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing. It was a hysterical scene.
TOTALLY agree, the hidden villain thing has to stop. It was telegraphed throughout the entire flick, quite poorly.
Dukefrukem
11-23-2018, 02:41 PM
I saw the hidden villain reveal ten thousand miles away right when the backwards train set piece occurs. Other than that, I thought this was quite good and much more fun than the first film. Baby Jack was the highlight.
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