Avengers: Infinity War (Russo Bros)

[Dukefrukem]

https://static.frmt.dk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/MV5BZmZmODE1MmYtOTFhMC00Zjc1LW IyYTQtYzZlYjgzMzg0YWZjXkEyXkFq cGdeQXVyNDQxNjcxNQ@@._V1_-1280x670-1512123824.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

Does this open internationally this weekend? Was hoping it would. But since they pushed it up a week in the US it might be opening the same weekend for all?

[Lazlo]

Does this open internationally this weekend? Was hoping it would. But since they pushed it up a week in the US it might be opening the same weekend for all?

Yeah, it's all next week. Originally it was that week-early international thing that they've done in the past but I think one of the reasons they moved the US release up was to guard against spoilers.

[transmogrifier]

Wednesday here for Korea.

[Dukefrukem]

Needless to say. I'm stoked.

[Morris Schæffer]

Needless to say. I'm stoked.

More than I thought I would be, but the past days there has been an upsurge of excitement. To be sure, Black Panther didn't float my boat at all, but if one Marvel flicks's gonna be legitimately epic it's gonna be this one. Gonna go next Wednesday!

[Dukefrukem]

Weds is the day Spoiler Reviewers are allowed across the internet. So I suspect some folks will break that on Tuesday. So just FYI on social media everyone.

[Peng]

First impression: Feel some rather mixed positivity on it, but I borderline love the third act. Amazingly though to me, under all the moving plot parts and after so many past teasing glimpses that risk courting total indifference, Thanos manages to be a rather decent, coherent villain. Might feel different after I sleep on it but for now this is upper middle tier MCU for me.

[Peng]

In the past, I often have the internet equivalence of polite smiles and internal sighs when the “MCU is more TV than film” is trotted out with every new release, which only feels tired to me because it’s usually so glib and throw-away dismissive. Even in the superhero team-up films there is still a feeling of one story being told and some undercurrent holding it all together to me. I know I feel different on Civil War than many, but I genuinely and strongly do sense Steve Rogers’ sadness, and his anti-authority arc coming to a close, cohering the film together.

But here, the avalanche of so many characters, and weight of the whole MCU history, seem to finally exceed the capability of an MCU team-up film’s structure. It’s the first time I finally feel the ‘TV’ criticism during one of these things. Infinity War feels like different episodes set in the same universe strung together into one film. No past films have ever felt this busy or had this little connective issues; it opens by continuing immediately from one of last year’s MCU post credit scenes, and then becomes a series of set-pieces with many moving plot parts and character interactions, allowing so much less story downtime or contemplation than usual for it all to feel apiece.

Some of the Russo brothers’ strengths are in evidence -- more about conducting than filmic to be sure, but still: being agile superhero traffic controllers, dropping quick effective emotional moments, and seamlessly planting seed of plot points that will pay off later. But the fact that this time they don’t have a story with the coherence of their past two films shows the deficiency in their cinematic visual sense even further (although some of the outer-space landscapes and stars are breathtaking).

Still, even if people use ‘TV’ as pejorative -- and it is here in term of being crammed and not in sync with its film framework -- then this is still kind of 'prestige TV', and there are strengths that come with that as well, especially in the brutal efficiency and escalation of stakes. The film knows that for comic book films, the audience will often have a sense of possible, and in some key cases even inevitable, reversibility regarding big story changes. With the help of rather shrewd writing in Thanos character (while not the best villain, he might be one of the most effective and best utilized, especially considering his annoyingly numerous past cameos), it counters that by making a lot of its events, especially in the excellent third act, as PG-13 traumatic as possible. Reversible or not, the feeling of despair is total and unique for an MCU film, and it lingers. 7.5/10

[Peng]

Captain America: Civil War (2016)
The Avengers (2012)
Black Panther (2018)
Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
Thor (2011)
Iron Man 3 (2013)
Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
Avengers: Inifinity War (2018)
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)
Iron Man (2008)
Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
Doctor Strange (2016)
Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
Iron Man 2 (2010)
Ant-Man (2015)
The Incredible Hulk (2008)
Thor: The Dark World (2013)

[Dukefrukem]

86% RT score and the two negative reviews are stupid and irrelevant.

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/avengers_infinity_war

[transmogrifier]

There're like 13 negative reviews. But the question is, who cares though? We all respond to these movies in our own way regardless of what the RT score says.

[Dukefrukem]

There're like 13 negative reviews. But the question is, who cares though? We all respond to these movies in our own way regardless of what the RT score says.

Meh. It's always a conversation piece and you're right, reviews don't affect me at all. I barely read them.

But when you read exerts like: "Avengers: Infinity War isn't a movie: it's advertising and brand management" can't help but laugh.

"None are well-written" and "a constant, loveless exchange of boilerplate effects" - Did this guy watch a Transformers movie by mistake?

This guy gave it a 1 out of 5 stars btw.

[transmogrifier]

"Avengers: Infinity War isn't a movie: it's advertising and brand management" can't help but laugh.

"None are well-written"

Both of these things are true, though. Every single Marvel movie I have seen has some kind of major story flaw.

For me, it's the statements like this that tune me right out:


the minute you exit the theatre, you'll be lining up at the box office to buy another ticket

and


[T]he most ambitious, most audacious, most mindblowing superhero film ever produced... THIS is why the superhero genre exists.

and


An exhilarating and heart-aching cinematic event.

Most of the people on RT aren't film critics. Many of them trade in hyperbole and stupid wordplay...

[Dukefrukem]

Both of these things are true, though. Every single Marvel movie I have seen has some kind of major story flaw.


I had no idea I wasn't going to see a movie tomorrow. Mind blown.

[TGM]

Plenty of Marvel movies, and hell, comic book movies in general these days fit that description though. Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a 2 hour trailer for future movies that never happened. Age of Ultron was a 2 1/2 trailer for future movies in the MCU. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Infinity War ended up being yet another extended trailer for future Marvel movies. *shrug*

[transmogrifier]

I had no idea I wasn't going to see a movie tomorrow. Mind blown.

It’s not a movie, it’s an event, Duke! You’ve read those positive reviews on RT! This is the defining cinematic moment of our time!

Until the next one, then we get to do it all over.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Most of the people on RT aren't film critics. Many of them trade in hyperbole and stupid wordplay...

I suspect there's a race-to-the-bottom race-to-the-top mentality with a lot of the second-string reviewers, where they feel the need to be hyperbolic due to the fear of being lost in the sea of online voices. The fact that their wordplay can sometimes seem cribbed from '90s VHS pull-quotes doesn't always help, either. (This goes both ways, of course, for positive and negative reaction. At times the latter feels like a sport. Snarkball, where you get points for clever insults and lose points for nuance and charity.)

[Dead & Messed Up]

Matt Zoller Seitz is my go-to for this kind of film. His final paragraph:


This movie shouldn't just engage and amuse and occasionally move us; it should shock and scar us. It should kill Ned Stark and Optimus Prime and Bambi's mommy, then look us in the eye after each fresh wound and say, "Sorry, love. These things happen." The last 15 minutes have the flavor of that sort of trauma, but without the actual trauma. Deep down, we all know that modern superhero movies are operating with even lower dramatic stakes than Star Wars or James Bond movies: beloved characters rarely stay dead after they've been killed, and no plot development, no matter how grave, is irreversible, so there's no possible way that what seems to be happening on the screen could really be happening. But we shouldn't be thinking about any of that as we watch Thanos hurt characters we've grown to love and cast the universe into ruin. The very sight should rip our hearts out.

[Dukefrukem]

Plenty of Marvel movies, and hell, comic book movies in general these days fit that description though. Amazing Spider-Man 2 was a 2 hour trailer for future movies that never happened. Age of Ultron was a 2 1/2 trailer for future movies in the MCU. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Infinity War ended up being yet another extended trailer for future Marvel movies. *shrug*

Age of Ultron had a clear conflict and a clear resolution. Let's not hyperbole this trailer nonsense now too.

[Skitch]

The way I see it, Marvel has been critical darlings so high and so long, its inevitable that eventually the critics turn on them, regardless of the film quality. But I hate the tomatometer and "consensus" when discussing any artistic medium anyway, so I get no reading on that shield up or down.

[[ETM]]

This was as good as it was ever going to be.

[Morris Schæffer]

There it is. The first Marvel movie that feels really epic, climactic, powerful and possibly even a little chilling.

[Dukefrukem]

Trans should be chiming in any min.

[Skitch]

Trans should be chiming in any min.

lol, since we found out that its his wife thats the fan, we should really get her report on these things (as well as trans).

[Henry Gale]

Loved this lots, to be honest. Like, flaws and all, it's just such an ecstatically orchestrated fusing of all of these storylines, ramped up to the biggest possible scale while still feeling tangible and exciting with that firm grip on every character (possibly something that could've only been done with both the fleshing out and goodwill of this many movies leading up to it, but if nothing else these movies have always done great job of both nailing the essence of a character and making them their own for the screen).

There are moments that are so joyous that they honestly choked me up (such as "She isn't alone."), parts that are so blindsidingly funny that you're not sure how they're working amongst the chaos (unlike sometimes in the MCU where I feel the comedic beats are misjudged or added in for the sake of wanting to relieve the audience of any emotion other than happiness after what it feels is too long), with elements that are so gleefully twisted in their morbidity that I'm just happy they made them work as seamlessly as they did for this type of movie that will be watched by untold millions of children, and just a lotta super fun, unexpected revelations and surprises. And for a movie that's been marketed to death, the fact that from the opening scene to its finale, realizing how much of it was new was its own quiet joy. This kind of feels like an anti-spoiler but, there are even big shots from the trailers that seemed to have been made only for them, and that's weirdly refreshing because it doesn't give you the sort of expectation of mentally building where you expect the plot to go because you've already seen certain things in its advertising. I'll never forget the fact that in The Winter Solider I knew a certain character wasn't dead because a bunch of his big trailer moments had yet to happen. This makes you think something similar, and then pulls the rug out from under you, and I think in the best way.

It's hard to compare it to any of the others in a way, and even to the other Avengers movie. But if I had to inevitably rank, in the former category, knowing how I felt watching it, and still with my gut reaction hours afterwards, I'd put it Top 3 with Black Panther and the first Guardians, which obviously means, despite how much I love Whedon and what he did with his two (particularly in my opinion, the very undervalued Age of Ultron) this is Top 1 amongst the other movies that share the Avengers title, or even Civil War.

I just thought it was blast in pretty much every way something like this should be, as well as perfectly tantalizing and uneasy in its thrills in the way it should be for a movie with a year-away direct continuation.

[Dead & Messed Up]

lol, since we found out that its his wife thats the fan, we should really get her report on these things (as well as trans).

I would listen to that podcast: "Married to Marvel."

[Morris Schæffer]

Some thoughts (pls. click only if you have seen it)

Twice, as far as I can recall, this movie teases the death of a major character and then basically throws a "HA! FOOLED YA!" at the audience. With Thor they literally show his spaceship exploding and with Stark he got pummeled so persuasively that I actually stopped breathing because I thought for sure he was a goner. And at this precise point I was sure I was seeing a pivotal moment in Marvel movie history and I loved the filmmakers for it, because I thought for sure Stark was done. It was powerful, it was ballsy, it was a violent wake-up call, it really would have brought the severe gravitas that Zoller Zeit felt wasn't entirely there. Except it doesn't happen because moments later Stark casually 'stitches' himself up.

I think the filmmakers lost their nerve here. That character should have died there and then.

The post-credits scene is really cool, I wonder who was the recipient of that message.

This is a rarity, one of the few Marvel movies that shoots for power and despair and actually gets there, for my money it exposes Black Panther for the entirely non-powerful and cartoonish movie that it is.

[Winston*]

Didn't like it ultimately. Some fun bits towards the start but didn't I feel there was much actual story here for a 2 1/2 hour movie. The novelty has worn off for me of seeing characters from one movie meet characters from another movie, and the ending was irritating.

Another TV cliffhanger. We're going to keep seeing these movies until we turn to dust.

[transmogrifier]

Funny you should say that, but this is my third-to-last one... I'll watch Antman 2 and the second half of this, and I'm done. I just don't care about any of the characters, and I have no interest in any more Strange/BP/Spider-Man entries.

[Dukefrukem]

You forgot Captain Marvel. You have 3 more to go.

[[ETM]]

The post-credits scene is really cool, I wonder who was the recipient of that message.

It's actually rather obvious, since it was a logo on the screen...

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

There is only a post credit scene correct? All the way at the end?

[Henry Gale]

There is only a post credit scene correct? All the way at the end?

Yup. Luckily I knew this and was able to run for a bathroom break in between.

[Morris Schæffer]

;590481']It's actually rather obvious, since it was a logo on the screen...

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Didnt recognize it.

[Henry Gale]

Didnt recognize it.

Her movie comes out next March.

[[ETM]]

Our theater fast forwarded through the credits.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Milky Joe]

The stars have aligned and I will be seeing this in one of those big luxury reclining theaters tonight. I don't think I've seen a movie opening night since, I dunno, high school. Should be fun.

[Skitch]

;590490']Our theater fast forwarded through the credits.

That is disgraceful.

[Henry Gale]

Gotta love the misdirects from even the banner image chosen for this thread.

Loki, Hawkeye... Hulk, even.

I realize it was illustrated by someone who wouldn't have necessarily been privy to everything, but it's still funny.

And of course:

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/InfinityWarAvengers-1.jpg

[transmogrifier]

You forgot Captain Marvel. You have 3 more to go.

Nah, I’m skipping that.

[[ETM]]

That is disgraceful.

No, I mean they went straight to the after credits scene. We would have stayed anyway, but I guess they wanted to get it over with.

[Morris Schæffer]

Her movie comes out next March.

Is there a logical reason for Fury to contact her other than 'she's got her own movie coming out?'

[Skitch]

So....ah....anyone die? It's been debated to death leading up to this release. I dont need plot points, and I dont care if its spoiled for me (though spoiler it for others). I'm staying with my prediction of no one of consequence.

[Henry Gale]

So....ah....anyone die? It's been debated to death leading up to this release. I dont need plot points, and I dont care if its spoiled for me (though spoiler it for others). I'm staying with my prediction of no one of consequence.

lol

Just see it and enjoy the surprise.

[Skitch]

lol

Just see it and enjoy the surprise.

Bastard!

[Dukefrukem]

Is there a logical reason for Fury to contact her other than 'she's got her own movie coming out?'

Considering her movie takes place with Fury as a major character, yes.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm worried about posting my spoiler review- since Henry is being so cautious as to not mentioning much.

[Dukefrukem]

This is where it sits for now.

1.The Avengers 2012
2.Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014
3.Avengers: Age of Ultron 2015
4.Avengers: Infinity War 2018
5.Thor: Ragnarok 2017
6.Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017
7.Captain America: Civil War 2016
8.Guardians of the Galaxy 2014
9.Iron Man 2008
10.Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017
11.Ant-Man 2015
12.Doctor Strange 2016
13.Iron Man 3 2013
14.Captain America: The First Avenger 2011
15.Thor 2011
16.Black Panther 2018
17.Iron Man 2 2010
18.Thor: The Dark World 2013
19.The Incredible Hulk 2008

[Winston*]

so does the new Ant Man take place in the aftermath of this movie?

[Winston*]

Ones I liked. Never saw Ant Man or the Norton Hulk.

1. Thor 3
2. Iron Man 3
3. Guardians 1
4. Avengers 1
5. Winter Soldier
6. Spider-man
7. Black Panther
8. Captain America 1
9. Iron Man 1

[Milky Joe]

Funny you should say that, but this is my third-to-last one... I'll watch Antman 2 and the second half of this, and I'm done. I just don't care about any of the characters, and I have no interest in any more Strange/BP/Spider-Man entries.

Does this mean you're getting divorced?

[Peng]

so does the new Ant Man take place in the aftermath of this movie?

No, before this (as mentioned how he and Hawkeye struck a deal with government, and I think in the trailer there is a mention or image of him being on house arrest or something?, but I am expecting a post-credit scene addressing this film though.

[Henry Gale]

I'm worried about posting my spoiler review- since Henry is being so cautious as to not mentioning much.

Oh do post it, but tag away. I just know that if I hadn't yet seen it and was in this thread and I wouldn't want to see anything out in the open.

At least it's actually out everywhere now.


so does the new Ant Man take place in the aftermath of this movie?

I know gotta assume it takes place right before and then up to the same climactic moment. Infinity War has to take place over, what, a day and a half?

Also for a whole movie going all in on the duo angle, I gotta assume either Ant-Man or the Wasp bites the dust, and then the other is left to search for the team. But not before a post-credit scene of them maybe grabbing Hawkeye on the way. Or they get him first and then the ashes during the credits.

[transmogrifier]

Does this mean you're getting divorced?

Ha, no, I’ve just got a year to break the news...

Anyway, she is sick with a bad head cold at the moment, so I won't be watching this for a while. At least Wats won't get angry at me for watching it so quickly.

[Dukefrukem]

What can I say? This was everything I ever wanted in a two part Avengers. But you guys already knew that. I couldn't help but cry as my sister is balling her eyes out sitting next to me.

Thanos feels like a great villain out of the gate, and so does the Black Order. He makes his presence known early and consistently throughout the movie. Brolin was great. After the opening sequence, the stakes are felt. I love that they gave the Black Order something to do, which essentially splits our heroes into three areas, ultimately three journeys, to accomplish their goal.

Two times my theater cheered. The first was Cap's appearance out of the shadows (it's in the trailer). The second wasThor's appearance in Wakanda after getting Stormbreaker, which I didn't think Thor ever wielded. I thought that was a Beta Ray Bill weapon. No matter, it was great.

The humor is there. I was worried it wouldn't be with no Whedon. After an abrupt opening scene, it definitely takes it's time to get going, but so does Civil War. Once we get off world, it becomes a little more consistent with the tone and pacing.

The biggest "oh shit" moment for me, is a spoiler. At first I thought Thanos was meeting Death on the hills of a mountain when searching for the Soul Stone.. I predicted and HOPED that Death would be part of this story, even if it were just a brief introduction to the movie of Thano's motivation. It would also be a great reference to Whedon's after credit scene from the first Avengers. But holy shit, Marvel brought back the Red Skull. No Hugo Weaving, but that was a really great throw back.

Then there was the last 10 minutes. Where essentially half the Avengers dies, which is a page out of the Infinity Gauntlet where Thanos kills half the universe (trillions of people by the snap of a finger). I didn't think Disney had the balls to this, let alone end the movie like this. This means, I expect some new cosmic entities to be introduced in the next two movies. Plus, how the fuck is Tony getting back to Earth?

[Dukefrukem]

Technology is so good today, they can get real time animation to adjust for shots. Brilliant!

https://image.ibb.co/dLBBtc/012.jpg

[Milky Joe]

Plus, how the fuck is Tony getting back to Earth?

why can't Strange just teleport them back??

[Dukefrukem]

why can't Strange just teleport them back??

Are we back on speaking terms??

[Henry Gale]

why can't Strange just teleport them back??

I'm sure he'd be happy to..... if he wasn't floating ash.

But unless I'm remembering wrong, it's just Nebula and Stark left on Titan, right? She's mostly machine, he's an engineer; They'll make it work.

[Milky Joe]

I'm sure he'd be happy to..... if he wasn't floating ash.

But unless I'm remembering wrong, it's just Nebula and Stark left on Titan, right? She's mostly machine, he's an engineer; They'll make it work.

Oh, derp. I forgot. So much going on in those last few minutes. I was so fixated on Peter that I forgot Strange went too.

[Pop Trash]

MCU

1. Captain America 1
2. Thor 3
3. Avengers 1
4. Thor 1
5. Captain America 2
6. Spider-Man 1 (or 6? depends on your perspective)
7. Iron Man 1
8. Black Panther 1
9. Guardians of the Galaxy 1
10. Avengers 2

[Dukefrukem]

This is where it sits for now.

1.The Avengers 2012
2.Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014
3.Avengers: Age of Ultron 2015
4.Avengers: Infinity War 2018
5.Thor: Ragnarok 2017
6.Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017
7.Captain America: Civil War 2016
8.Guardians of the Galaxy 2014
9.Iron Man 2008
10.Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017
11.Ant-Man 2015
12.Doctor Strange 2016
13.Iron Man 3 2013
14.Captain America: The First Avenger 2011
15.Thor 2011
16.Black Panther 2018
17.Iron Man 2 2010
18.Thor: The Dark World 2013
19.The Incredible Hulk 2008

I rewatched First Avenger, Avengers, Ultron and Doctor Strange in the last 2 days... and I've updated my rankings.
First Avenger gets better as Strange gets much worse.


1.The Avengers 2012
2.Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014
3.Avengers: Age of Ultron 2015
4.Avengers: Infinity War 2018
5.Thor: Ragnarok 2017
6.Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017
7.Captain America: Civil War 2016
8.Guardians of the Galaxy 2014
9.Iron Man 2008
10.Captain America: The First Avenger 2011
11.Black Panther 2018
12.Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017
13.Iron Man 3 2013
14.Thor 2011
15.Ant-Man 2015
16.Doctor Strange 2016
17.Iron Man 2 2010
18.Thor: The Dark World 2013
19.The Incredible Hulk 2008

[Dukefrukem]

Couple of Complaints:

Motion capture on Proxima Midnight looked unfinished and looked more like a Blizzard cut-scene, where as Ebony Maw looked incredible. I thought they wrote Maw beautifully.

Peter Dinklage mystery character was... distracting. I'm beginning to think he can't act outside of Game of Thrones, which is odd because he's so good on that show. But what else has done that's been at that level? His voice over acting is terrible.

[[ETM]]

It didn't look as if they captured Proxima Midnight at all, it looked like a 100% CGI character with Coon wasted on voice work.

[[ETM]]

I rewatched First Avenger, Avengers, Ultron and Doctor Strange in the last 2 days... and I've updated my rankings.
First Avenger gets better as Strange gets much worse.

I don't think I've seen any of them as much as I've seen First Avenger. There's something about the first half of the movie that makes me forgive the forgettable climax.

[Dukefrukem]

;590585']I don't think I've seen any of them as much as I've seen First Avenger. There's something about the first half of the movie that makes me forgive the forgettable climax.

Yeh, the climax is a bit weak. BUt you're right, the first half of that movie is pretty great. Yup until Rogers walks up the road with 100 men he saves by himself.

[dreamdead]

I'm gonna go with negative on this one. I felt fatigued through multiple scenes in Black Panther, and this one extended that sense; the Gamora and Thanos material works, but it needs another scene or two to pull it together more deeply.

The Starlord material in the Thanos battle with Doctor Strange, Mantis, Iron Man, and Spider-Man is the weakest part--his flaw feels too pat and narrative-driven for his character in that moment to risk their battle on such a transparently obvious reveal. (To extend it, so did Gamora just before she's dropped.) The hubris is strong here--but it doesn't feel fleshed out enough.

That couple minute streak of despair and punchline-levity was too repetitive, and interesting characters are given so little to do (Olsen, ScoJo, Wright) that it neutralizes the sense of scale that the Russo brothers are playing with. Strangely, if it were another 15-20 minutes longer, it'd be able to possibly have more of character arc rather than narrative one.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I find it hard to take seriously the final ten minutes...

as they play less like a cruel thinning of the herd and more like setup for the next film that will restore the characters back. The problem here is that it's hard to invest character death when the film's very MacGuffin is essentially a get-out-of-jail-free card that can be used in a thousand different ways. And apart from Peter, the thinning of the herd doesn't occur with any semblance of emotion or tragedy. They don't come with accompanying payoff to relationships. It's just... a thing that happens. Everyone just sorta stands around and looks confused as they Marty McFly into the Great Beyond. (Imagine if being turned into antimatter dust, I don't know, hurt?)

This feels like Civil War to me, more crowd control than a film that operates toward something beyond its own existence (and the core competencies of the Marvel brand). I will give the film credit for making Thanos the protagonist and making it all about his own passion and emotional journey. There's no personality in the film as big as him, and Brolin and the VFX team make him a menacing agent of action. Were it not for Killmonger, he'd be the best Marvel villain since Loki.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't think the MacGuffin is as nearly important here if there are emotional ties to the exit. Why are you worrying about the next film? Just focus on what's happening on screen. And I disagree with the things happen. It thought all the deaths were profound, esp Loki's, Gamora's, Black Panther's and Parkers

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't think the MacGuffin is as nearly important here if there are emotional ties to the exit. Why are you worrying about the next film? Just focus on what's happening on screen. And I disagree with the things happen. It thought all the deaths were profound, esp Loki's, Gamora's, Black Panther's and Parkers

If there are emotional connections to the deaths, absolutely. The buried issue here being that I didn't feel emotions during those evaporations in the final moments. I just thought, "Okay, that's what the next movie will be about. Undoing all of this." Perhaps it's that the scene itself is free of pain and emotion (beyond shock). Do we see anybody cry? Perhaps it's that the film doesn't really build meaningful arcs for the characters so that when one will die, it means something to another living person. Imagine, for example, if Stark's sub-mission through all of this was protecting Peter and keeping him as much out of harm's way as possible - not just because of their connection to each other, but also because Parker becomes a proxy for all of humanity - then I would feel something when Parker dies, because I would empathize with Stark failing in a specific way to keep his surrogate son safe. Similarly, yes, Tchalla dies. Why? We needed more time with him, and a better sense of what he is prepared to sacrifice against this threat. And then have him act against someone who's there to watch it. (And you can see that the film is sorta kinda angling for that, but there's just not enough time in the film for me to feel that this death has consequence and emotion and meaning to the people experiencing it.) It's sad, but in a distant and clinical way.

I would agree with you that Gamora's death is sad. That one I'd give you for sure. Even though the moment plays it way too long to the point where you want to scream at Gamora for not catching on, it feels real and sad - and weirdly enough, a big part of why is because you recognize Thanos' emotional turmoil in choosing that path. (The film tries to do this again later with Vision and Scarlet Witch, to lesser effect.)

[Dukefrukem]

If there are emotional connections to the deaths, absolutely. The buried issue here being that I didn't feel emotions during those evaporations in the final moments. I just thought, "Okay, that's what the next movie will be about. Undoing all of this." Perhaps it's that the scene itself is free of pain and emotion (beyond shock). Do we see anybody cry? Perhaps it's that the film doesn't really build meaningful arcs for the characters so that when one will die, it means something to another living person. Imagine, for example, if Stark's sub-mission through all of this was protecting Peter and keeping him as much out of harm's way as possible - not just because of their connection to each other, but also because Parker becomes a proxy for all of humanity - then I would feel something when Parker dies, because I would empathize with Stark failing in a specific way to keep his surrogate son safe. Similarly, yes, Tchalla dies. Why? We needed more time with him, and a better sense of what he is prepared to sacrifice against this threat. And then have him act against someone who's there to watch it. (And you can see that the film is sorta kinda angling for that, but there's just not enough time in the film for me to feel that this death has consequence and emotion and meaning to the people experiencing it.) It's sad, but in a distant and clinical way.

I would agree with you that Gamora's death is sad. That one I'd give you for sure. Even though the moment plays it way too long to the point where you want to scream at Gamora for not catching on, it feels real and sad - and weirdly enough, a big part of why is because you recognize Thanos' emotional turmoil in choosing that path. (The film tries to do this again later with Vision and Scarlet Witch, to lesser effect.)


I was thinking about this more, and I'm going to see this again on Monday, but I think anyone who has died, before Thanos snapped his fingers, are likely dead forever. That includes, Loki, Heimdall, and Gamora.

[Dukefrukem]

When trans sees this, he's going to hate it more than Black Panther. All of the backstory and character arcs are in other films, and this movie is basically 2.5 hours of climax and characters meeting each other for the first time. It's specifically for Marvel fans and seeing the other movies is basically a prerequisite.

[Milky Joe]

Imagine, for example, if Stark's sub-mission through all of this was protecting Peter and keeping him as much out of harm's way as possible - not just because of their connection to each other, but also because Parker becomes a proxy for all of humanity - then I would feel something when Parker dies, because I would empathize with Stark failing in a specific way to keep his surrogate son safe.

wait a sec, that's exactly what happened! have you not been following along with Stark and Peter since Civil War?

aside from the pre-snap deaths that Duke mentioned (plus Vision), all or most of the heroes who get dustified have movies in the pipeline, so it's obvious that they aren't gone permanently. the original six Avengers are all still left—and Strange said that sacrificing the Time Stone to save Stark's life and allow Thanos to get what he wanted had to happen in order for the 1 winning scenario to occur. so in A4 the question will be who of the characters who were left standing in IW will be toast, sacrificed to restore the rest of the universe. I'm betting on Cap' and Tony both sacrificing themselves. that's the real drama of the IW ending, IMO.

[transmogrifier]

When trans sees this, he's going to hate it more than Black Panther.

Nah, nothing will be as boring as the interminable discussions about Wakanda politics in nondescript rooms over and over and over again.

[Watashi]

This is the first Marvel film I found downright boring. Agree with DaMu on everything he said.

Though I'm all for a Thor/Rocket duo film.

[[ETM]]

Nah, nothing will be as boring as the interminable discussions about Wakanda politics in nondescript rooms over and over and over again.

Except for your reactions to every single Marvel movie.

[transmogrifier]

;590609']Except for your reactions to every single Marvel movie.

Dude, I was directly responding to Duke who mentioned me by name. No one is forcing you to pay attention to my opinions on Marvel movies.

[[ETM]]

I was directly responding to your Black Panther comment. I know I don't have to read your comments but they take a lot of fun out of every MCU thread. I kinda want to geek out over all those silly movies with guys who also enjoyed them without feeling like it's a Gathering of Juggalos or something. Especially since there can be no discussion, since, you know, I don't think anything in Black Panther (or Infinity War, for that matter) was boring. Because... not boring.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

Red Letter loved it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ-zAOnxikU

[transmogrifier]

;590611']I know I don't have to read your comments but they take a lot of fun out of every MCU thread. I kinda want to geek out over all those silly movies with guys who also enjoyed them without feeling like it's a Gathering of Juggalos or something.

And there we have modern internet culture in a nutshell.

[Morris Schæffer]

;590611']I was directly responding to your Black Panther comment. I know I don't have to read your comments but they take a lot of fun out of every MCU thread. I kinda want to geek out over all those silly movies with guys who also enjoyed them without feeling like it's a Gathering of Juggalos or something. Especially since there can be no discussion, since, you know, I don't think anything in Black Panther (or Infinity War, for that matter) was boring. Because... not boring.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Compared to Avengers: IF, BP was excruciatingly boring.

Nevertheless, geek out man, no one's really stopping you, not Trans nor anyone else. :)

[transmogrifier]

Compared to Avengers: IF, BP was excruciatingly boring.

Nevertheless, geek out man, no one's really stopping you, not Trans nor anyone else. :)

I haven't even seen it. I was talking about a different film to a different person who directly tagged me in relation to it. *shrug*

[[ETM]]

And there we have modern internet culture in a nutshell.Wow.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Peng]

Since I sincerely have found it a pretty good option for boards like this (prefacing because this might come off incendiary and I genuinely don't mean so), you might find Ignore List useful ETM.

[transmogrifier]

;590619']Wow.


I mean the notion of staking out a corner and then actively dissuading dissenting viewpoints from engaging with it. I mean, that is literally what you are doing here, is it not? It happens everywhere, from politics, to music, to movies... hell, 90% of subreddits are operated on that principle.

I'm going to leave it at that, because we'll end up derailing the thread and I'll get blamed for it, given I'm the resident Marvel hater, and that's what I do, hate Marvel.

[Dead & Messed Up]

wait a sec, that's exactly what happened! have you not been following along with Stark and Peter since Civil War?

I saw Civil War but not the newest Spider-Man. Even so, I saw no indication past the opening act that Stark truly cared about Parker being around. His emotional state was played as annoyance, not concern, and despite his reticence to involve Parker, he also seemed eager to involve Parker in the fight at other times, most notably when they all decide to join forces to attack the most powerful being in the universe. (Stark similarly had a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth in Civil War when he claimed his whole deal was that the Accords would help prevent them from endangering people needlessly - his main example was an ambitious teenager caught in the crossfire of Sokovia. In the third act, he enlists the help of an ambitious teenager and puts him in the crossfire of an airport battle that includes a god-robot and trained assassins.) If Stark's story in this film is about protecting Parker, I think it was a lame move to make his introductory scenes about Pepper (frankly, to include her at all). I also think it was a lame move for Stark once again to demonstrate a desire, then later behave in contradiction to that desire, without the film or even him taking notice of that contradiction and using it to get somewhere meaningful. This is what drives me a little nuts about these films sometimes. They seem to know what good emotional beats and satisfying team-up moments look like, but then they get there in the cheapest, easiest way possible. (This is why I think the only real way to think this film emotionally holds water is to read it as Thanos's story above all others, even moreso than the Joker in The Dark Knight.)

[[ETM]]

I'm going to leave it at that, because we'll end up derailing the thread and I'll get blamed for it, given I'm the resident Marvel hater, and that's what I do, hate Marvel.

I'm mostly hung up on the "can't discuss" part. I have absolutely no issues with different opinions, or you as a poster.
I just feel like, with Marvel, the most interesting topic is largely avoided: what does the whole "cinematic TV show that's making billions" thing mean for movies and television, and how do we even evaluate it?
Why does the guy in The Guardian complain about "no character introductions", as if somehow anyone expected a standard film structure and not a season finale, part one? Feels like comic book movie fans are content just geeking out, and those who aren't fans are just dismissive of the whole thing. I dunno, I'd have thought that now that we're near the end of the whole Thanos chunk of MCU it'd be time for some kind of deeper talk on all this.

[Milky Joe]

I saw Civil War but not the newest Spider-Man. Even so, I saw no indication past the opening act that Stark truly cared about Parker being around. His emotional state was played as annoyance, not concern, and despite his reticence to involve Parker, he also seemed eager to involve Parker in the fight at other times, most notably when they all decide to join forces to attack the most powerful being in the universe. (Stark similarly had a tendency to talk out of both sides of his mouth in Civil War when he claimed his whole deal was that the Accords would help prevent them from endangering people needlessly - his main example was an ambitious teenager caught in the crossfire of Sokovia. In the third act, he enlists the help of an ambitious teenager and puts him in the crossfire of an airport battle that includes a god-robot and trained assassins.) If Stark's story in this film is about protecting Parker, I think it was a lame move to make his introductory scenes about Pepper (frankly, to include her at all). I also think it was a lame move for Stark once again to demonstrate a desire, then later behave in contradiction to that desire, without the film or even him taking notice of that contradiction and using it to get somewhere meaningful. This is what drives me a little nuts about these films sometimes. They seem to know what good emotional beats and satisfying team-up moments look like, but then they get there in the cheapest, easiest way possible. (This is why I think the only real way to think this film emotionally holds water is to read it as Thanos's story above all others, even moreso than the Joker in The Dark Knight.)

it's like you don't even know who Tony Stark is or how he behaves all the time

[Dukefrukem]

Highest domestic opening ever beating Force Awakens. Wow. Has Marvel transcended Star Wars?

Solo has a lot riding on that franchise.

Edit. Look at that, they took the international record too.

[Skitch]

Solo has a lot rising on that franchise.

Nah.

[Dukefrukem]

Nah.

Of course it does. If people don't flock to see a movie about a character everyone loves how will they feel comfortable about doing their Gotg thing?

Does anyone here think it's going to do Rouge numbers? Because I dont.

[Skitch]

...about doing their Gotg thing?
You lost me there a bit.

I read your post like you mean if Solo bombs then people will probably not go to ep IX? Maybe thats not what you meant?

[Dukefrukem]

You lost me there a bit.

I read your post like you mean if Solo bombs then people will probably not go to ep IX? Maybe thats not what you meant?

No. People will still see Episode IX, even though Episode VIII did not meet exceptions.... financially.
What I mean is Lucasfilm will be hesitant to branch out with their Anthology stories. Like what GotG did for Marvel. We'll end up with a Jabba the Hut origin stories and shit. I know I'm contradicting myself a little bit since they are giving Johnson the freedom to make three movies about whatever he wants... but it feels as though they are playing it safer than ever with this franchise when they should be going nuts.

[Dukefrukem]

990608469672714240

[Skitch]

Oh, yeah. Yep. Although I think instead of easing up on the Anthology stuff they may just go for more established directors. Clearly its been problematic.

[Dukefrukem]

More thoughts about the cold open to the movie

I'm wondering if Marvel has plans to revisit what exactly happened on Xander with Nova Prime. How did Thanos get the first stone? Maybe they will tie into a Nova standalone movie. There's clearly a lot to cover there that Infinity War just glosses over. Seems very intentional.

Edit: Cool fact, James Gunn wrote all the Guardians dialog.

[[ETM]]

I'm guessing it will be a comic or something. Not that difficult to imagine what happened there.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Pop Trash]

Solo has a lot rising on that franchise.


Nah 2 Revenge of Nah. Too much bad buzz. OG directors were fired. Ron Howard is about as milquetoast middle-of-the-road as it gets.

Plus I think it's fair to say more people are invested in Rey, Kylo, etc. at this point than a prequel adjacent movie.

[TGM]

*sigh* I've been following these characters for so long that I'm curious as to their fates, and became especially curious after seeing the reactions to this film. But god dammit, I really think these movies just aren't for me anymore. :\

[Milky Joe]

Well then who are they for? What are you not seeing that you want to see in them?

[Grouchy]

Peter Dinklage mystery character was... distracting. I'm beginning to think he can't act outside of Game of Thrones, which is odd because he's so good on that show. But what else has done that's been at that level? His voice over acting is terrible.
Dude, you should watch The Station Agent and Find Me Guilty.

I geeked out. Big time.

[Morris Schæffer]

*sigh* I've been following these characters for so long that I'm curious as to their fates, and became especially curious after seeing the reactions to this film. But god dammit, I really think these movies just aren't for me anymore. :\

That's what I thought after Black Panther, but now I'm back baby. Back I tell ya and I cannot wait for part 2.

Tell me something, you're not averse to big dumb fun as you said in the Rampage thread. While I don't consider AV IW big dumb fun, but actually far better than that, couldn't you enjoy this movie as just that? Or is it too long, too bulky, too much of a slog?

[Dead & Messed Up]

it's like you don't even know who Tony Stark is or how he behaves all the time

It's like you don't want Tony Stark to meaningfully develop over eight movies.

;)

But let's not make this thread about how coyly we can condescend to each other. My point is what I said: "I also think it was a lame move for Stark once again to demonstrate a desire, then later behave in contradiction to that desire, without the film or even him taking notice of that contradiction and using it to get somewhere meaningful." Get somewhere meaningful is the key phrase here. It isn't just that these characters operate in a Sisyphean way - it's that they don't have to, and we could still enjoy their company as they become more conscientious, self-effacing, and wise.

Sidebar: while we're on the subject of "meaningful," one of the quiet bummers of the film is that it's a one-sided philosophical dialectic. Thanos has a Malthusian view that only through genocide can balance come to the universe. It's an idea so innately stupid that I almost admired his faith in it, since faith is such a heavy requirement for such a stupid idea. He's got the credulity of a Scientologist. But the bummer is that there's no meaningful alternative presented. If anything, I fear that the film tries to be kind to his premise. IIRC, he tells Gamora that her home planet did have its balance restored after he wiped out half of the people. And his tragic backstory is that he was ignored, and his planet actually did fall to ruin. [Such ideological nonsense may not deserve consideration, but if you bring up such a dumb belief to the audience, it's probably a good idea to swat it down in a meaningful way beyond "It will kill many people." Movies like Batman Begins and Watchmen similarly have anti-hero/villain crusaders who believe in a cruel but necessary thinning of the herd (both of which are short-sighted and needlessly capricious, like Thanos' plan), but those movies seem more interested in the idea because the heroes have real thoughts on the matter. Here, Banner calls Thanos a plague. What attention is paid to him is familial, from Gamora, unless I'm misremembering.]

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm also surprised that anyone would enjoy this over Black Panther, which was more focused, fascinating, impressive in its action direction (yes), and had a better villain. But it takes all kinds. :)

[Grouchy]

I'm also surprised that anyone would enjoy this over Black Panther, which was more focused, fascinating, impressive in its action direction (yes), and had a better villain. But it takes all kinds. :)
Agreed. Black Panther is a great film - this is a convoluted blockbuster that's still a hell of a lot of fun, but wouldn't be near the top of my Marvel ranking.

Best parts was the outer space for me.

[Dukefrukem]

Favorite parts for me was the beginning- Spider-man + Iron Man + Dr Strange

"Earth is closed"

[Milky Joe]

It's like you don't want Tony Stark to meaningfully develop over eight movies.

;)

Look you're the one who hasn't even seen the movie that meaningfully develops the relationship between the two characters in this movie you claim don't have a meaningfully developed relationship. I don't know how I'm supposed to respond to that.


Favorite parts for me was the beginning- Spider-man + Iron Man + Dr Strange

"Earth is closed"

Agreed. The moment when Spider-Man is officially (and totally unceremoniously) dubbed 'an Avenger'... Holland sold it so well. I wanted to cheer like a lunatic. But I kept it inside.

[DavidSeven]

There's too much real money at stake in this enterprise to feel like any of this stuff has actual stakes. It's hard to buy into emotional payoffs when you know every B and C character in the story can carry a $1 billion franchise and that no one is going to walk away from that lightly. Through numerous prior fake-outs, Marvel has also trained its audience to not believe in the finality of a cinematic death. It started with the pointless resurrection of Agent Coulson and has snowballed from there. So, to build an entire narrative that relies on our belief that these characters could really go away really handicaps its potential for emotional effectiveness from the jump. I am certain that the most commonly asked by viewers upon theater exit is....

So, how do you think they'll bring them all back?

This is never going to feel like Game of Thrones. And that's only partially Marvel's fault. At the end of the day, this is a big, dumb kids' franchise that is propping up theme park attractions that print money for Disney's shareholders. However, with that being the case, maybe pick a story that isn't so completely undermined by our inability to believe that the corporate overlords would allow any of this to stand.

That aside, the movie feels big and rousing and is perfectly solid as mindless entertainment. They do a good job of building on and feeding off the iconicism they've established with the core characters. A few moments are pretty cool -- the reemergence of the rogue Avengers, Cap and Panther sprinting to the front of the battle lines, Thor killin' it. But I find it increasingly difficult to evaluate this stuff as "movie" movies. It's lost almost all of its cinematic character and morphed into its own thing -- some amalgamation of a 3D ride, Pixar and television. On that level, I'm fine saying that I enjoyed myself in the moment and took basically nothing else away from the experience.

[Dukefrukem]

Unbelievable that some of you can't get past the mouse ears and just watch the damn movie.

Do you watch Lars Von Trier and your first thought is: "what kind of prosthetic is he going to use in this movie?" Or Wes Anderson and get turned off by the stop/go animation?

[DavidSeven]

No, but if Lars von Trier historically made it a point to "kill off" characters as a shortcut to emotion and then bring them back at his convenience, then I'm definitely not buying it in Dogville 3.

For the Avengers film, part of the issue is the money and corporate welfare at stake. But a big part is also Marvel's own doing and what they've trained their audience to believe.

[[ETM]]

These are definitely not "movie movies", but are, surprisingly, not that far off in many important ways. I agree that it's a whole new thing, but I don't know why you left out the most important thingout of the mix: comic books. I have never been a fan of US comics, but I know that one of the staples of the genre is constant reinvention and reshuffling of core elements in order to keep things fresh snd introduce new ideas, concepts and elements to something that is familiar and "works". One of the consequences is the general understanding that anything can be rewritten, retconned, taken back. That makes it difficult for anything to truly resonate, but for hard core fans, that understanding makes it easy to compartmentalize: sure, Captain America is dead in this version of the story, and can be brought back at some point in time, but this doesn't mean that it doesn't still HURT.

This is what I saw with so many commenters: you know your favorite character who just turned to dust in front of your eyes will be back in the next one, but YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER STILL TURNED TO DUST in front of yout eyes. The average moviegoer doesn't truble him/herself with Disney and billions and board rooms - as long as it all works and you have fun as a result.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Wryan]

A lot of it works well enough to get a nice charge out of it, but just about the only things with weight here were Bettany's work at the end, Brolin's work fairly well throughout, and Iron Man's pneumatic blows. (Okay, Thor and Wanda get their moments too.) Didn't think Gamora's arc worked as well as it could have--I didn't buy all of Saldana's acting here in the big moments, which is odd since I think she's perfectly capable otherwise. Some of the humor was poorly executed and did undercut a few moments. The Guardians humor felt grafted on and spotty for the effort. Effects around Thanos were terrific, as well as generally very good otherwise. Didn't really feel anything from the ticker-tape parade death floaties--only from Holland. Though I'm interested in seeing how they resolve all this, there better be a lot more real consequences next movie, as most of what's here kind of feels like shadow play while we wait for an inevitable reversal.

[Wryan]

Did Feige actually say that deaths in Infinity War will be permanent? Read that somewhere. How can that possibly be true except under some some weasel-word bullshit?

[Peng]

I think the word he used is "some deaths".

[Peng]

Some of the violence and the tone of the ending stay with me a bit, so I have been curious about kids' reactions. Kinda horrible of me but I like reading these anecdotes; childhood's traumatic film experiences are almost a rite of passage and I love hearing about each generation's new one(s).



My upstairs neighbor took her kid, who must be like 5 or 6 and who is wearing spider-man gloves every time I see him, and she came back mad so I’m pretty sure this definitely messed up some of the smaller audience members.




In my viewing on Saturday afternoon, there were two kids in the 6-8 range that were crying openly during the credits, and another sitting in front of me that was around 11 asking his parents if what he just saw really happened, and what happens now.


There was a kid clutching a black panther claw looking shellshocked outside the theater so that was pretty great.





I heard a kid scream and start bawling when Loki died. His mom had to take him out of the theater because he was so freaked out.

[Milky Joe]

I would guess everything before the snap is permadeath. Except maybe Gamora, but if they bring her back that'd be a pretty major cop-out.

Poor Rabbit, though. Literally all of his friends are gone.

[Morris Schæffer]

https://cdn.empireonline.com/jpg/70/0/0/1024/1024/aspectfit/0/0/0/0/0/0/c/articles/5ae83c71a41429e71d12ec5b/Infinity%20War.jpg

[Skitch]

Heh, its funny looking that close at Iron Man's fingers, its clearly impossible that human fingers could exist inside of it.

[Dukefrukem]

Some of the violence and the tone of the ending stay with me a bit, so I have been curious about kids' reactions. Kinda horrible of me but I like reading these anecdotes; childhood's traumatic film experiences are almost a rite of passage and I love hearing about each generation's new one(s).





Lol, it's rated PG-13 - "hey let's take our 5 year old"

[Grouchy]

Some of the violence and the tone of the ending stay with me a bit, so I have been curious about kids' reactions. Kinda horrible of me but I like reading these anecdotes; childhood's traumatic film experiences are almost a rite of passage and I love hearing about each generation's new one(s).










Hahah I remember reading Knightfall as a young kid was similarly traumatic for me. I dunno, I consider that type of experience a positive one. Love the kid who asked himself if what he saw on screen "really happened".

[Dead & Messed Up]

Go figure, the one death scene that I thought was handled reasonably well in the finale was at least partly improvised by Tom Holland (http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/05/01/avengers-infinity-war-tom-holland-improvisation-joe-russo). Props to Spider-Man.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, not for me. Too busy, too dour, too weightless. I don’t care about any of the characters - the majority of character beats are so shallow and mechanical (still the only relationship between characters that has hit for me is Gamora and Nebula) - and the action scenes are just a parade of random magic at random intervals until someone needs to win to advance the story. Nothing builds, there is no wind and release, it is just an endless grind from money shot to money shot.

The end is just a shrug and “Well, maybe now we might have a more coherent movie with half of them gone for however long it takes to get things back to the inevitable status quo.”

Thanos is interesting as a character, but the whole film is just an expensive game of keepaway.

Give me campy don’t-give-a-fuck Ragnorok or lowstakes Antman silliness any day

[Scar]

Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanos owns this movie. Loved how they established how powerful he is by owning Hulk before the opening credits.

Sidenote: Black Panther was alright I guess, but not one I see myself revisiting.

Thor Ragnarok, on the other hand is hands down my favorite Marvel flick. Trans just summed it up perfectly: campy don’t give a fuck.

[transmogrifier]

Thor Ragnarok, on the other hand is hands down my favorite Marvel flick. Trans just summed it up perfectly: campy don’t give a fuck.

My top four Marvel movies: Guardians 1, The Avengers 1, Thor 3, and Antman. There is a pattern there, I think.

[Milky Joe]

Ant-Man is one of my favorites too. R'spec

[Philip J. Fry]

991104252075376641

[TGM]

Decided to go ahead and give this one a yay. I don't hate this movie or even think it's really any bad. It's just not entirely my thing, but it's still fine.

[Dukefrukem]

Russo Brothers revealed this weekend the off-screen death of a fan favorite. We were speculating of this after Thor Ragnarok but apparently...

Lady Sif is dead.

[[ETM]]

That's the dumbest thing ever. I hated how it was handled in Ragnarok and I hate hate hate this.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Henry Gale]

I mean, I don't like it either, but she's somehow managed to be the only and only cast member of this universe tied to an old-fashioned standard, 22-episode network drama that I imagine didn't allow her to shoot anything but that around the time both of these movies.

Even Westworld's 10-episode first season was shot sporadically from 2014 to 2016 for Anthony Hopkins and Tessa Thompson to find room for Ragnarok in the middle.

[[ETM]]

I understand the logistics, I just think the whole way Thor's sidekicks were introduced and dispatched is one of the worst things about the MCU.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Grouchy]

Agreed, and the real reason for that is that they backtracked the whole Thor universe altogether to change it into something else once they realized The Dark World was widely considered the worst MCU movie. And they did it brutally.

[Wryan]

Thor: The Not-So-Dark World Anymore

[Dukefrukem]

Thor 2 was the point in the MCU where Marvel looked at themselves and said, "wait, we can put anything on the screen and our movies will make a half a billion WW"?

[Henry Gale]

Thor 2 was the point in the MCU where Marvel looked at themselves and said, "wait, we can put anything on the screen and our movies will make a half a billion WW"?

Absolutely, though I think that was also the studio/Feige's most strained director relationship showing its scars most on-screen. It also resulted in Whedon coming in to largely script the re-shoots (basically, if a scene with Thor and Loki was funny, it was probably his addition), Tim Miller being brought in to direct the cold open and the new final scene without Taylor's involvement. Hiddleston even said recently that Loki's Dark World fake-out death was original played and filmed as a real one before that re-shoot of him taking Odin's place on the throne.

Though after The Dark World, I do think they hit a nice stride that they haven't brushed the lows of since. I mean, it was immediately followed up by The Winter Solider (which I don't love as much as others, but I still think is a taut and dynamic actioner), Guardians of the Galaxy, and Age of Ultron (which I definitely love more than most). And even the films that have since felt like "business as usual" entertainment for them (Ant-Man, Doctor Strange) still distinctly and excitingly play to their own genre riffs with great balances of humour, packed with nice universe-building, and some stunning, inventive setpieces.

[Dukefrukem]

Absolutely, though I think that was also the studio/Feige's most strained director relationship showing its scars most on-screen. It also resulted in Whedon coming in to largely script the re-shoots (basically, if a scene with Thor and Loki was funny, it was probably his addition), Tim Miller being brought in to direct the cold open and the new final scene without Taylor's involvement. Hiddleston even said recently that Loki's Dark World fake-out death was original played and filmed as a real one before that re-shoot of him taking Odin's place on the throne.


I didn't know about most of those things except for the trouble Feige ran into with Natalie Portman when they let Patty Jenkins go. That Tim Miller fact is new to me. But what i do know, is Spider-man Homcoming was the first movie produced by Marvel with only Kevin Feige in control. Isaac Perlmutter originally wanted them to ax the 70s soundtrack in Guardians of the Galaxy. Gunn fought hard to keep that. It's also the reason why the last four releases have been so radical in tone compared to what we've seen in the past.

[Mal]

this was a tedious slog. Marvel's own Justice League. And ugly villains who look like they'd hang out with Steppenwolf as well.

[[ETM]]

Yes, thank you for that contribution, so lovely.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[transmogrifier]

;591137']Yes, thank you for that contribution, so lovely.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Perhaps you should send out a list of movies we aren’t allowed to criticize?

[Henry Gale]

this was a tedious slog. Marvel's own Justice League.

I mean, instead of just flippantly saying "lol nope", let's look at character balance and storytelling stakes and implications alone. The ending of Infinity War, regardless of how much you can feel comforted/superior with the knowledge that there will come some resolution to much of its jarring loss (though I still think there will likely be an inverse of a sacrifice by the end of the next one), it's still a massive, ballsy gall of a move to "resolve" a movie like this. Not to mention in between all of that it still manages to make characters like Wanda and Vision, who have never and will never have a movie of their own to be fleshed out, feel as important and emotionally resonant to the core of the story as anyone who've been in these so long and often that they may as well have had their superhero costume lifted to the rafters like a jersey retirement ceremony in sports because this generation will likely never accept anyone else in the roles they've commanded. And then there's the tonal balance in a scene like the one between Thor and Rocket, where Thor breaks down his state of mind, deflecting by cracking jokes while tears roll down his face, confronting the loss he's endured, and talking through what he knows he has to do as the only survivor of it all, because what else does he have to lose? And aside from that scene being super effective in a quiet way movies like this (if, again, there are any comparisons of scale alone) rarely find time for, and it ends up leading to one of the most triumphant and breathtaking hero reveal moments I can think of in any superhero movie when he arrives in Wakanda.

At the end of Justice League, what's changed? Who do we really feel like we know any better than when the movie began? (Barry, maybe. But even then he's largely regulated to comic relief and asking the everyman questions to provide explainers for the audience.) Superman is back at about the halfway point and then narratively you're just waiting for him to show up to help save the day at the right moment in a finale that at worst messes up a small town. Then, I guess they're a team! And financials that would justify a sequel actually happening put aside, how likely is anyone to care if we ever see them as that unit again.

In that sense alone, I'm not sure how Infinity War's storytelling can feel less propulsive let alone comparative in ambition? Actual technical and stylistic craft I can easily contend that is a little more subjective, both movies look nice and ugly at different times in different ways. The Russo's work is largely a buffet of inherited styles from other films with brief timeouts from fulfilling the natural order of these things to find room for directorial stamps of their own, whereas JL is a hybrid of Snyder starting a film that Whedon came in to put a tonal adjustment (and sunnier colour-grade!) on largely pre-mandated visual language. They're both stylistic Frankenstein's monsters, but at least Marvel's manages it in a way that can deliver everything it needs to easily and effectively as a crossover serial, whether or not that really pushes the medium forward or back.. *shrugs* I laughed and I cried so whatever it very largely worked for me.


And ugly villains who look like they'd hang out with Steppenwolf as well.

I think Carrie Coon's looked the most video game avatar-ish, 2nd place going to the big, generic ogre-y dude (who was apparently played by Terry Notary?? Why?).. But I actually thought the other two were interestingly designed and portrayed, especially Ebony Maw.

But really, these are the villain's henchmen we're talking about. I get that the movie didn't work for you overall, but in the end, after everything and everyone that's on screen, I'm not sure how that can be what stands out most.

[[ETM]]

Perhaps you should send out a list of movies we aren’t allowed to criticize?Criticize away. I hate "dump-and-go".

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

;591148']Criticize away. I hate "dump-and-go".

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

This.

[transmogrifier]

Criticize away. I hate "dump-and-go".


Interesting. Here is something I found in the Justice League thread.


Finally watching this. Dear God, it makes even less sense than I thought.

That was the entirety of your contribution. Perhaps you should amend your statement to “I hate dump-and-gos when someone else does them against a franchise I’m particularly defensive about”?

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Wanda/Vision thing is where I have to imagine much of this comes down to personal preference, because I didn't give a damn about them, and I thought it was a tactical error to make so much of the story hinge on their relationship. It felt more like a universe necessity (given the Mind Gem) than an issue of character wants/needs and what was best for the story. Their opening scenes felt boilerplate, their ending felt preordained - the latter of which isn't bad in itself, obviously, as that's how most tragedy works, but because the emotion didn't feel real and spiky and alive to me, it felt more like a waiting game or marking time than a feeling of dread and "Please don't let this happen."

I mean, it doesn't speak well to them that I was yearning for the romantic banter of Tony and Pepper, and they were reduced in this film to "Let's have a baby" melodramatic mallow.

[Grouchy]

That was the entirety of your contribution. Perhaps you should amend your statement to “I hate dump-and-gos when someone else does them against a franchise I’m particularly defensive about”?
Justice League is too obviously a piece of shit to deserve more and there's plenty to be found in the Web already.

Come on. We're film buffs. We all have our weird tastes, but when a movie is shit, it's shit.

[transmogrifier]

Justice League is too obviously a piece of shit to deserve more and there's plenty to be found in the Web already.

Come on. We're film buffs. We all have our weird tastes, but when a movie is shit, it's shit.

Hey, I think ETM has every right to leave a one-sentence dismissal. No problem with that in the slightest. It’s just, if he’s allowed to do it, he should allow others to do so as well.

Maybe you’re arguing that movies can be split into ones we can rag on and ones we can’t? If so, I don’t agree with that at all.

[transmogrifier]

The Wanda/Vision thing is where I have to imagine much of this comes down to personal preference, because I didn't give a damn about them, and I thought it was a tactical error to make so much of the story hinge on their relationship.

I totally forgot they were a thing and then after being reminded, I realized I had forgotten because I really don’t give a damn that they are a thing.

The Marvel universe is hampered by an almost total lack of genuinely interesting character interactions - everything is predicated on the assumption that any two superheroes paired up is “cool” in and of itself (the exception being Gamora and Nebula) - and the action scenes have no rhythm, style or interest. They are almost without exception a bunch of overpowered characters throwing things at each other for a set period of time until a random thing happens that turns the tide. I’d even go as far to say that they are all fucking boring to sit through. Compare that to, say, the sequence in A Quiet Place centered around the mother in the bathtub and how it manages to build by flicking between perspectives to increase the dramatic stakes. Marvel has no idea how to do that.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I totally forgot they were a thing and then after being reminded, I realized I had forgotten because I really don’t give a damn that they are a thing.

The Marvel universe is hampered by an almost total lack of genuinely interesting character interactions - everything is predicated on the assumption that any two superheroes paired up is “cool” in and of itself (the exception being Gamora and Nebula) - and the action scenes have no rhythm, style or interest. They are almost without exception a bunch of overpowered characters throwing things at each other for a set period of time until a random thing happens that turns the tide. I’d even go as far to say that they are all fucking boring to sit through. Compare that to, say, the sequence in A Quiet Place centered around the mother in the bathtub and how it manages to build by flicking between perspectives to increase the dramatic stakes. Marvel has no idea how to do that.

This is an interesting point, and I'd co-sign. I hadn't really thought about the inherent tensions in the action scenes because a lot of these action scenes by design are not about the gradual escalation of a threatening situation. The best scene of action in the film is easily the battle on Orange Planet with Tony's clan vs. Thanos, but even then it's closer in spirit to a karate demo than some sort of Spielberg/Miller suspense setpiece. It's more that the heroes take turns showcasing their individual powers. The Russos try and impart a sense of setback and anxiety in the Wakanda siege, but it's weird that it carried less interest to me than something like the battle at Helm's Deep; again, the peaks were demos, like Bucky lifting Rocket, or Cap racing against Tchalla. But it's hard for me to single out individual great moments in Helm's Deep, because the whole feels like more than the sum of its parts, while this action is too often just that: parts.

Community, and Lin's was aggressively better in terms of camera control and action development?]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[[ETM]]

Trans, I knew you were going to do that, and I don't know why you think that is the same. I watched JL late and had literally nothing to add to the previous dumping other than the movie makes even less sense than I thought. I didn't drop the mic or anything, I put my hat in the ring and if anyone felt like talking about it, I was prepared to do it. Here, there's something of a discussion going on. I was reading through and that comment was a jarring "fuck ya'll" in the context. It didn't help that I literally grabbed some faint wifi on an amazing trip for that nugget. So yeah, dump away, don't mind me, but I'm at least allowed not to like your tone, right?

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[transmogrifier]

;591168']Trans, I knew you were going to do that, and I don't know why you think that is the same. I watched JL late and had literally nothing to add to the previous dumping other than the movie makes even less sense than I thought. I didn't drop the mic or anything, I put my hat in the ring and if anyone felt like talking about it, I was prepared to do it. Here, there's something of a discussion going on. I was reading through and that comment was a jarring "fuck ya'll" in the context. It didn't help that I literally grabbed some faint wifi on an amazing trip for that nugget. So yeah, dump away, don't mind me, but I'm at least allowed not to like your tone, right?

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Up until Zac's comment, this page is 95% talking about the Thor movies. There is nothing "fuck ya'll" at all in the tone of the comment whatsoever. I have never seen ZE ever do anything like that, and if you look at her reviewing history, it is all very similar in length and style. You are being far too sensitive.

[Mal]

;591148']Criticize away. I hate "dump-and-go".

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Kiss my ass. I'm never at my computer much to delve into thoughts so I'm usually just saying a quick bit from my phone in between whatever the hell I'm doing- then I go back to check conversation later to see if I can indeed get into more detail. In fact right now I'm ONLY posting from my computer because I was hoping there was a thread for First Reformed so I could gush about the movie that I've been WAITING to share my thoughts on with people here for many months.
I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAD TO EXPLAIN THIS.



But really, these are the villain's henchmen we're talking about. I get that the movie didn't work for you overall, but in the end, after everything and everyone that's on screen, I'm not sure how that can be what stands out most.

... how can it NOT be the thing that stands out? We've spent a decade getting to know all of these characters and we're literally meant to believe that they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this movie and that's the BEST they can do at this point in the MCU for villain design? It's absolutely pathetic- and frankly goes along with the rest of the film.

[Dukefrukem]

It's all good guys and girls. Deadpool tonight!

[[ETM]]

Kiss my ass.


Thanks, I think I'll pass.


we're literally meant to believe that they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this movie and that's the BEST they can do at this point in the MCU for villain design? It's absolutely pathetic- and frankly goes along with the rest of the film.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with their design. I completely agree with what everyone said, and I will just add that I didn't think the animation was good enough - quite a lot of it seemed like it wasn't captured, but done traditionally, which clashed with how Thanos was done. Their purpose was to be easily distinguished and identified by their powers, and it all worked well, except for performance capture.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[MadMan]

I loved it. Honestly I watched this for the action sequences, and to finally being able to see certain characters interact with one another. I chalk Thanos being well rounded up to the Black Panther effect, although I hope we get even more backstory about him in Part 2.

Also I was actually surprised by certain parts. While I called Spidey and Vision dying, both were really sad. I did not expect most of the Guardians and Black Panther to bite it, however. I loved that end credits scene.

Thank God they gave this one to the Russo Brothers. Finally a great Avengers movie, and Part 2 is still left to go. Btw Thor calling Rocket a squirrel is still really funny to me.

[TGM]

Rabbit. ;)

[Skitch]

Caught this today. I'll start off by saying I liked it, I give it a thumbs up, worlds better than Avengers 2.

That being said,

people are crying at this movie? For real? At what point? After all the slaughter Thanos causes in this part 1, who can possibly believe these characters are dead? THEY ALL HAVE SEQUELS IN THE PIPELINE. By my estimation, the only two characters or any consequence that might possibly actually be deceased are Loki and Hemdale (sp?), and theyre Asguardians so, natch. Its fine, I just can't help but feel if they had picked less central characters it might have carried more weight. Seriously, if anyone believes Panther and Parker are for real gone youre a moron.

I've been plenty vocal about Stark being a hypocritical asswipe in Civil War, and wow did they double down. Hes a complete fucking asshole in this movie and not even remotely in a cute or funny way. I would say good chance hes a goner in Avengers 4, and at this point even if its a self sacrifice, good fucking riddance. Hes insufferable, and I wont miss him when hes gone.

I also didn't love how they made the Guardians look so stupid.

PS - Gamora is in the soul stone. They overplayed that romance sooooo she will be back.

I know, sounds like I'm shredding it. I did like it, just pointing out the negatives. Thor RULED this movie. Really curious where it goes next entry next year.

[MadMan]

Rabbit. ;)Oh, right. Also Thor calling the GOTG morons. Hehe.

[TGM]

Caught this today. I'll start off by saying I liked it, I give it a thumbs up, worlds better than Avengers 2.

That being said,

people are crying at this movie? For real? At what point? After all the slaughter Thanos causes in this part 1, who can possibly believe these characters are dead? THEY ALL HAVE SEQUELS IN THE PIPELINE. By my estimation, the only two characters or any consequence that might possibly actually be deceased are Loki and Hemdale (sp?), and theyre Asguardians so, natch. Its fine, I just can't help but feel if they had picked less central characters it might have carried more weight. Seriously, if anyone believes Panther and Parker are for real gone youre a moron.

Completely agreed with all of this. It was all the "WTF?!" reactions and people talking about how they didn't know what to think and what have you after the movie that actually triggered my interest in it. And, yeah, like you said, they couldn't have done a more transparent job with this movie of essentially telling us that this is all going to be reversed in the next one, given the choices they went with. So I didn't leave shocked in the least, or even really emotional about any of it. I was left just sorta like, huh, well I guess that confirms everyone's coming back next time then.

Maybe if you're a younger kid, sure, you might be forgiven for being shocked or coming out ignorant to how these movies usually work. But for everyone else, people talking about sitting in their car in silence afterwards in disbelief or what have you? Yeah, they really have no excuse for not knowing any better, lol.

That all said, this has actually sat relatively well with me since watching it. I still think it's all a bit too much, but considering the sheer amount of characters and stories they were trying to juggle here, they did about as good a job as could be expected at balancing things out. Still though, I'm looking forward to the return to a much smaller cast in the next go-around. :p

[transmogrifier]

The tonal whiplash between Thor 3 and this was pretty strong. It’s kind of weird to jump from inspired Waititi lunacy to genocidal carnage in the opening scene.

[Dukefrukem]

C

That being said,

people are crying at this movie? For real?
.

Yes for real. There doesn't need to be finite decisions for the scenes to be emotional. Those things are mutually exclusive.

[Grouchy]

I've been plenty vocal about Stark being a hypocritical asswipe in Civil War, and wow did they double down. Hes a complete fucking asshole in this movie and not even remotely in a cute or funny way.
Wow, so weird. That makes me feel like Civil War has better writing than I give it credit for, because I always thought it was so obvious Stark was right and Cap was being an asshole that it underplayed the moral conflict.

[TGM]

Wow, so weird. That makes me feel like Civil War has better writing than I give it credit for, because I always thought it was so obvious Stark was right and Cap was being an asshole that it underplayed the moral conflict.

That's the thing that's great about Civil War. Both sides make very valid arguments, but then both sides also make incredibly flawed, emotionally/personally fueled points as well. Neither side is entirely wrong or right, which makes it easy to see how people can wind up siding with either one, depending on their own personal viewpoints.

[Dead & Messed Up]

That's the thing that's great about Civil War. Both sides make very valid arguments, but then both sides also make incredibly flawed, emotionally/personally fueled points as well. Neither side is entirely wrong or right, which makes it easy to see how people can wind up siding with either one, depending on their own personal viewpoints.

Eh, it's less "complex" to me than it is "messy." I think a film like The Dark Knight does a much better job of showcasing an ideological clash and the compromises that characters make toward their goals.

[TGM]

If it's messy, that almost makes it even more realistic, as such discussion often gets pretty muddled with a lot of personal baggage and such attached in real life all the time.

I'm not disagreeing that TDK does a better job presenting such idealogical dilemmas, mind you.

[Grouchy]

I'm not disagreeing that TDK does a better job presenting such idealogical dilemmas, mind you.
I would strongly disagree with that because I think Nolan's insight into his themes in almost all of his movies is abysmal.

[Grouchy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5jrdHASx04

The thing is, the way they set it up in the movie, Cap really has absolutely no arguments for refusing the Sokovia Accords. They should have at least wrote in a subplot where Cap realizes there are people in the government who would try to use them as weapons or delved more into the fear/admiration dychotomy with regular people and superheroes. I understand Civil War was an action blockbuster and wouldn't get bugged in a semi-realistic analysis of a modern world with superheroes in it they way some comics have done (not talking about the actual Civil War comics here, I read them long ago and I've forgotten all about them) but his resistance seems silly and groundless. They have leveled cities, the whole Ultron debacle was their fault and that's "taking responsability" like he says in the clip. Cap has no case.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5jrdHASx04

The thing is, the way they set it up in the movie, Cap really has absolutely no arguments for refusing the Sokovia Accords. They should have at least wrote in a subplot where Cap realizes there are people in the government who would try to use them as weapons or delved more into the fear/admiration dychotomy with regular people and superheroes.

I mean, he literally says that in the clip. "What if this panel sends us somewhere we don't think we should go. What if there is somewhere we need to go and they won't let us?"

[Skitch]

Wow, so weird. That makes me feel like Civil War has better writing than I give it credit for, because I always thought it was so obvious Stark was right and Cap was being an asshole that it underplayed the moral conflict.

I get where the movie (and you) are coming from, I really do. I just feel it doesn't take into account Tony's hand in creating villains and weapons in previous MCU movies. Tony's constructs have been the cause of so much damage and death and destruction, he should be sympathetic to Winter Soldier being used against his will. Obviously it probably wouldn't make for a good movie, but it just seems like the height of hypocrisy to me.

As for Cap and the Accords, go back to First Avenger. He literally survived "people just following orders". It makes absolute sense for him to be against that. Its surprising that the rebel Tony would even be falling into line with it, but its only due to his massive guilt at the (again) overwhelming amount of death and destruction that is directly his fault.

While I do have issues with Civil War, I will applaud the Russos all day for finding a way to ground the comics run in the more realistic MCU. The path they took was the clearest, cleanest, best path to adaptation (if you can't do a direct one, which in this current cinematic universe would not have made sense).

[Scar]

The thing is, the way they set it up in the movie, Cap really has absolutely no arguments for refusing the Sokovia Accords. They should have at least wrote in a subplot where Cap realizes there are people in the government who would try to use them as weapons or delved more into the fear/admiration dychotomy with regular people and superheroes. I understand Civil War was an action blockbuster and wouldn't get bugged in a semi-realistic analysis of a modern world with superheroes in it they way some comics have done (not talking about the actual Civil War comics here, I read them long ago and I've forgotten all about them) but his resistance seems silly and groundless. They have leveled cities, the whole Ultron debacle was their fault and that's "taking responsability" like he says in the clip. Cap has no case.

After Hydra infiltrated just about everything in Winter Soldier, I think he has a rather strong case for not trusting government / organizations.

[Peng]

Yeah, maybe it's because the only time I watched all MCU leading up to a film was before Civil War, but Captain's arc across his trilogy definitely flows better than Tony's own trilogy leading to his Civil War side (even if you can handwave the latter by his appearances in Avengers films, but it still requires a bit of logic stretching). From the total devotion at the very beginning of First Avenger to just being mind-numbing propaganda prop in the middle of the film (before betraying order a bit and going on his own to rescue soldiers), to waking up to disillusion that escalates into fighting with the rotten core of SHIELD's abused power in Winter Soldier, then his stance in Civil War feels like the logical endpoint of his arc, completing with him throwing his signature shield away.

[MadMan]

Yes for real. There doesn't need to be finite decisions for the scenes to be emotional. Those things are mutually exclusive.
Also there is a chance some of the characters do not come back...

[MadMan]

Look I side with Cap, but I am heavily biased.

[Ezee E]

Finally got around to this.

This is fine, maybe even pretty good because of Thanos.

I would say it might be the most boring of the Marvel movies when it's outside of the Thanos scenes. But I liked that the villain truly feels like an impossible being to take down, and the likes of Iron Man/Captain America/Spider-Man basically couldn't do anything to him. It was the magic and power of gods that only had any power on him, and even then, hardly anything. Heck, he even has some solid thinking in his agenda. Those were also the best action scenes.

My biggest issue is that Vision, for being one of the biggest key characters for containing one of the stones, seems like the wimpiest character of the bunch. I missed Avengers 2, so it just seemed like he's not that powerful. He was always getting pummeled or wrecked apart. And he has one of the strongest elements in the entire universe!

The Guardians are mostly comic fodder, but at least it's effective.


I'm hoping Gamora/Vision stay dead, but I'm guessing they're with all the other dusty souls in whatever world they're in. Loki too, perhaps?

Star Lord's screwup is so major and annoying that I hope there's some type of repercussion from his teammates. Stupid.

Captain America, Falcon, War Machine and Black Panther are basically watching from the sidelines here. They don't seem too powerful or influential when you factor in everything everyone else.

Poor Wakanda, no matter the case, is a wasteland, but will likely all be back together the next time we see it.

New York Attacked ---- Again. Or at least that's how the news headline should be. Who would live there?

I say some of these comments in jest, of course.

[Ezee E]

Finally got around to this.

This is fine, maybe even pretty good because of Thanos.

I would say it might be the most boring of the Marvel movies when it's outside of the Thanos scenes. But I liked that the villain truly feels like an impossible being to take down, and the likes of Iron Man/Captain America/Spider-Man basically couldn't do anything to him. It was the magic and power of gods that only had any power on him, and even then, hardly anything. Heck, he even has some solid thinking in his agenda. Those were also the best action scenes.

My biggest issue is that Vision, for being one of the biggest key characters for containing one of the stones, seems like the wimpiest character of the bunch. I missed Avengers 2, so it just seemed like he's not that powerful. He was always getting pummeled or wrecked apart. And he has one of the strongest elements in the entire universe!

The Guardians are mostly comic fodder, but at least it's effective.


I'm hoping Gamora/Vision stay dead, but I'm guessing they're with all the other dusty souls in whatever world they're in. Loki too, perhaps?

Star Lord's screwup is so major and annoying that I hope there's some type of repercussion from his teammates. Stupid.

Captain America, Falcon, War Machine and Black Panther are basically watching from the sidelines here. They don't seem too powerful or influential when you factor in everything everyone else.

Poor Wakanda, no matter the case, is a wasteland, but will likely all be back together the next time we see it.

New York Attacked ---- Again. Or at least that's how the news headline should be. Who would live there?

I say some of these comments in jest, of course.

[Skitch]

I'm guessing Gamora is IN the soul stone. So destroy that and shes back. The dust people will all be back, they all have movies announced. Only real deaths are Loki and Hemdale, and they're asguardian, so one trip to Valhalla and they can pop back.

[Ezee E]

I guess the one thing we don't know...

How do they actually kill Thanos?

By the way, missed the end credits scene. Is it just a phone call with Marvel's logo at the end?

[[ETM]]

My biggest issue is that Vision, for being one of the biggest key characters for containing one of the stones, seems like the wimpiest character of the bunch. I missed Avengers 2, so it just seemed like he's not that powerful. He was always getting pummeled or wrecked apart. And he has one of the strongest elements in the entire universe!


They made a pretty big deal out of it, actually. It is specifically stated in the movie that the weapon used to stab him in the back when he was distracted was made to disrupt his functions. From that first stab in the back, he was basically powerless.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Ezee E]

;592183']They made a pretty big deal out of it, actually. It is specifically stated in the movie that the weapon used to stab him in the back when he was distracted was made to disrupt his functions. From that first stab in the back, he was basically powerless.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Guess I missed that.

[Grouchy]

By the way, missed the end credits scene. Is it just a phone call with Marvel's logo at the end?
It's a phone call TO THE PAST.

[Dukefrukem]

It's a phone call TO THE PAST.

Not quite.

[Skitch]

I never stay for the second after credits bit anymore. Its online the weekend the movie comes out, and between the 12 trailers and comic book movies often pushing 2.5 hours, you're already in theater over 3 hours as is.

[[ETM]]

Our theatres have started fast forwarding through credits.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dead & Messed Up]

;592194']Our theatres have started fast forwarding through credits.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

That's some crap.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Also, on reflection, Thanos makes the most sense to me as a deeply vain idiot, not as some sort of titan of "challenging" thought or sense. Hope the sequel goes to one of his "saved" planets and shows how it was never saved at all. The alternative is that, in the MCU, Malthusian theory must be taken seriously, which... yeesh.

[Skitch]

That's some crap.

Yeah I dont approve of that either. If people are that into after credits scenes, they should sit their ass through it. FFing is disrespectful to everyone who worked on the film.

[[ETM]]

That's some crap.I know, it has to be illegal or something.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Ezee E]

;592199']I know, it has to be illegal or something.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

Can't see it being illegal, but definitely douchey.

[transmogrifier]

I never stay for the second after credits bit anymore. Its online the weekend the movie comes out, and between the 12 trailers and comic book movies often pushing 2.5 hours, you're already in theater over 3 hours as is.

Same. And most of them are just a waste of time anyway. Certainly wasn’t gonna hang around for Infinity War’s.

[Skitch]

I watched it before I saw the movie lol.

[Dukefrukem]

You know what would be really cool (they will never do this but I was just thinking about it this morning)... If they keep Peter Parker dead, and Spider-man Homecoming sequel will be around Miles Morales.

[Ezee E]

You know what would be really cool (they will never do this but I was just thinking about it this morning)... If they keep Peter Parker dead, and Spider-man Homecoming sequel will be around Miles Morales.

That'd be clever.

I do wish the other deaths were as emotional as his. It almost seemed like they just knew they were being transported somewhere else, rather than dying.

[TGM]

You know what would be really cool (they will never do this but I was just thinking about it this morning)... If they keep Peter Parker dead, and Spider-man Homecoming sequel will be around Miles Morales.

I actually really wish this would happen. I rewatched Civil War last night, and one of the things that stood out most to me was how much I can't stand Tom Holland's take on the character. I know I'm in the minority on this, but he's seriously the worst Spider-Man to me.

[Grouchy]

I actually really wish this would happen. I rewatched Civil War last night, and one of the things that stood out most to me was how much I can't stand Tom Holland's take on the character. I know I'm in the minority on this, but he's seriously the worst Spider-Man to me.I
I don't think he's horrible but both Maguire and Garfield had better takes, despite the latter being in the worst possible movies.

[Dukefrukem]

Really love this deleted scene. Adds to the dread.

1024512638452215809

[Skitch]

I hope theres a longer cut coming.

[Dukefrukem]

I've now watching this movie twice in theaters and twice at home. I can't get enough. Like Season 3 Episode 1 of Rick & Morty. I keep finding new things.

[Ezee E]

I've now watching this movie twice in theaters and twice at home. I can't get enough. Like Season 3 Episode 1 of Rick & Morty. I keep finding new things.

Like?

[Dukefrukem]

Just like?

[Scar]

Just like?

Like what are you finding?

[Dukefrukem]

Ha, I read that wrong.

Like when Thanos fights Doctor Strange, it's the only time in the movie where he uses the soul stone (aside from the ending). Every time he uses a stone, it illuminates on his fist.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jx4Qfb1seOA

[megladon8]

Watched half of this last night, and I don’t know if it’s pure superhero fatigue or what but man...I just don’t care.

Do we ever get more light shed on why Thanos is doing this? Yeh yeah restore balance blah blah but WHY. So far he’s gotta be the most boring villain the MCU has seen since Ronan.

Doesn’t help it any that the CGI on Thanos is very uneven. Sometimes he looks photorealistic , other times it’s a video game. The fight between him and Hulk at the beginning was particularly rough.

We’re also getting frighteningly close to soap opera levels of relationship drama. Longing looks between Tony and Pepper (who is...back? I guess?), Vision and Scarlet Witch, Bruce and Natalia. I. Just. Don’t. Care.

[Dukefrukem]

Longing looks between Tony and Pepper (who is...back? I guess?),

End of Spider-man: Homecoming explains this.

[Skitch]

End of Spider-man: Homecoming explains this.

I'm not even sure what hes referencing? Did they go somewhere?

[megladon8]

I'm not even sure what hes referencing? Did they go somewhere?

I haven’t seen Homecoming yet, but she hasn’t been seen (and has only been casually mentioned) since Iron Man 3.

[Skitch]

I haven’t seen Homecoming yet, but she hasn’t been seen (and has only been casually mentioned) since Iron Man 3.

Ive seen Homecoming twice and I don't know what Duke is talking about either lol. I'm not sure if this means I have a drinking problem or both films are kinda forgettable. I'm going to go with the latter.

[Dukefrukem]

Don't know what to tell you guys if you don't remember scenes or skip movies in chronological order but trust me, it's explained.

[Skitch]

Don't know what to tell you guys if you don't remember scenes or skip movies in chronological order but trust me, it's explained.

Not denying that, just asking for a reminder. Its a LOT of shit to try to remember. I relate it to taking ten years to watch the first season of 24.

[Dukefrukem]

The final scene of the movie. Wrapping up Spidey's arch, talking with Tony, ending with a word cut off. Full scene below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssGsYXmoK78

[Skitch]

Yeah I remember all that...whats the story with Pepper missing though? I'm confused.

[Irish]

Don't you guys remember?

Pepper was off building her career as a CEO and telling women to put stone eggs in their vaginas (https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/gwyneth-paltrow-goop-advice-women-put-stone-eggs-in-vaginas-rose-quartz-jade-steaming-a7525626.html).

[transmogrifier]

This may be the only thread on the entire Internet that has expressed any kind of concern about the whereabouts of Pepper Potts.

[Dukefrukem]

This may be the only thread on the entire Internet that has expressed any kind of concern about the whereabouts of Pepper Potts.

2 seconds of googling says you're wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/6s6ncw/what_happened_to_pepper_potts/

[transmogrifier]

2 seconds of googling says you're wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/6s6ncw/what_happened_to_pepper_potts/

I don't know what perturbs me more: (a) that I was wrong and some poor souls do actually care about accounting for the whereabouts of Pepper Potts, or (b) you actually Googled to check.

What was the Marvel universe wrought on us?

[Ezee E]

I like this one the most because I think the fights are the best choreographed, and the fights feel like there may actually be something on the line. Plus, along with Thanos, I like those other villains too. Been liking this one more and more.

[megladon8]

Basically this movie doesn’t hold a candle to Thor: Ragnarok or The Winter Soldier.

They are top tier Marvel.

This isn’t Ultron bad, but it just...is.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Basically this movie doesn’t hold a candle to Thor: Ragnarok or The Winter Soldier.

They are top tier Marvel.

This isn’t Ultron bad, but it just...is.

Same. There's also something that rubs me a little raw about this film immediately shitting on the optimistic ending of Ragnarok (by halving the survivors of that film) and then demolishing Wakanda from Black Panther - only two months in our collective memory - into a heap of burnt ground and dead space salamanders.

In general, I don't think the Russos have created a convincing romance. They're also responsible for Captain America being all into Peggy's grand-niece in the same movie (Civil War) where Peggy dies, and oh boy, when Cap and Sharon finally kiss, you can cut the sexual tension with a fork.

[Grouchy]

Duke, man, not only does that clip fail to explain anything about why Potts came back... but is it really worth getting pissed at people for not remembering it?

Enviado desde mi CAM-L03 mediante Tapatalk

[Skitch]

I really dig IW but my biggest issue with it is the heroes its decides to excise in the snap. Like, 90% of those characters already have sequels announced. We KNOW they're not dead. Therefore the snap has very little weight to it. They shouldve aimed more at B characters then maybe it wouldve felt heavier. Its also why I laughed when I heard people were crying at the ending. I tend to get a lot more teary as I get older, even at dumb stuff, but at no point in three watches of IW did I feel a twinge of teary. This is the biggest issue with the MCU.

This last rewatch I noticed too...in the first act when Stark says essentially, "evacuate everyone from 43rd north to blah blah blah", New York City is in seconds completely deserted. Insert eye-rolling emoji.

[Dukefrukem]

It fills the gap between Iron Man 3 and Infinity War fine and who's pissed?

[Dukefrukem]

Its also why I laughed when I heard people were crying at the ending. I tend to get a lot more teary as I get older, even at dumb stuff, but at no point in three watches of IW did I feel a twinge of teary. This is the biggest issue with the MCU.

I'll remember to laugh at you the next time you find something emotional.

[Ezee E]

I really dig IW but my biggest issue with it is the heroes its decides to excise in the snap. Like, 90% of those characters already have sequels announced. We KNOW they're not dead. Therefore the snap has very little weight to it. They shouldve aimed more at B characters then maybe it wouldve felt heavier. Its also why I laughed when I heard people were crying at the ending. I tend to get a lot more teary as I get older, even at dumb stuff, but at no point in three watches of IW did I feel a twinge of teary. This is the biggest issue with the MCU.

This last rewatch I noticed too...in the first act when Stark says essentially, "evacuate everyone from 43rd north to blah blah blah", New York City is in seconds completely deserted. Insert eye-rolling emoji.

I can agree about the snap, but it at least makes me pretty curious at how things will be returned. I'm going to avoid Captain Marvel as I'm guessing there's a fairly obvious answer in that movie.

[megladon8]

Finished it.

So yeah...it was a movie.

[Skitch]

I'll remember to laugh at you the next time you find something emotional.

People usually do.

[Skitch]

I can agree about the snap, but it at least makes me pretty curious at how things will be returned.

I am too. Its whatever the one future vision that worked is that Dr. Strange saw, as given away by the title.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Movie needed 20 more minutes of Ebony Maw proselytizing about Thanos.

[megladon8]

Movie needed 20 more minutes of Ebony Maw proselytizing about Thanos.

It didn’t need 20 more minutes of anything.

[megladon8]

This was also the first time I started to roll my eyes a bit at Iron Man’s suit upgrades.

It’s getting a bit much.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It didn’t need 20 more minutes of anything.

Said 20 minutes would come at the expense of other things. No net time gain. I just like Ebony Maw. His name, his look. I dig his whole scene.

[Milky Joe]

This was also the first time I started to roll my eyes a bit at Iron Man’s suit upgrades.

It’s getting a bit much.

I kinda feel like it was a bit much from the first 30 minutes of Iron Man 1. "A bit much" would describe literally every Marvel movie. But that's fine with me. I hope that Endgame drowns the audience in 200 minutes of Much.

[Ezee E]

I am too. Its whatever the one future vision that worked is that Dr. Strange saw, as given away by the title.

Really hoping something occurs in the movie that goes against Strange's future visions, because that's kind of annoying.

[Mr. McGibblets]

I feel like I just watched half of a movie.

[Skitch]

You did.

[Dukefrukem]

Was Back to the Future Part 2 half a movie? Was Matrix Reloaded half a movie?

[Skitch]

Yes and yes, imo.

[Dukefrukem]

No way....

[Skitch]

No way....

You're right, BTTF2 is a third of a movie.

I don't mean it as a fault of any of the ones named, btw.

[megladon8]

It is half of a movie, but this is the nature of trilogies and stuff like this. Not a fault, that’s just how these movies are. It’s part of a larger whole.

[Ezee E]

It is half of a movie. But in regards to the main character, Thanos, there is a beginning-middle-end to his goal.

[Milky Joe]

It's more like 1/16th of a movie

[megladon8]

Another thing - Wakanda has insane tech. The ability to cloak a country, crazy vehicles and weaponry.

Why did they show up to an alien invasion on foot with spears?

[Irish]

Another re-watch and, God, this movie is still such a complete bore and waaaaaaay too long.

- Thor scenes are the best scenes. (But did they pull an "Alien 3" with the opening here and kill well-liked characters off-screen? The movie implies half the people from "Ragnarok" are dead. What happened to Korg, dammit?!)

- There's a lotta talk about how our heroes won't "trade lives," ie, kill Vision to destroy the stone so Thanos will de facto lose. This seems silly because human beings definitely trade lives, and have repeatedly through history. We often call this "strategy." But I guess that's the appeal of this sorta fantasy? Arbitrary lines in the sand?

- Thanos' minions (I don't know their names) are really cool looking, have some great lines, the actors have terrific delivery, and all of them are given short shrift in the end.

- Surprised at just how much screentime the Guardians take up. This movie could have been tagged "Guardians of the Galaxy 2.5"

- And similar to the "Guardians" movies, this one reaaaaaally overreaches when it comes to emotion. The Russo Brothers must've whipped their composer into a frenzy because every other moment is beefed up by swelling orchestral music, to piledrive the point that whatever rando scene we're seeing is, really, crucially important and, ya know, totally deep.

- Lotsa time also devoted to Thor getting that axe. So much so I'd call it a genuine subplot if it weren't so completely linear.

- Enjoyed Brolin's performance a little more, maybe out of desperation. Thanos is the only character allowed to develop, and given significant screentime. (His master plan is still stupid, though.)

- Speaking of which, why was Thanos sitting on his ass for the last 6 years? What has he been doing? The movie never says. For some reason, he just decides that now is the time and so he whips through the galaxy getting all 6 stones in, like what? less than a month?

- Everything that happens on Titan makes the whole movie feel dumb.

- Same thought as the first time: The only thing to think about, walking out of this movie, is how they're gonna bring everyone back to life. That's pretty shallow for a two and a half hour experience.

- I didn't know that "Captain Marvel" comes out a month before "End Game." Are they as heavily connected as "Infinity War" implies? Because the prospect of 4+ more hours of this thin plotline is exhausting.

[Ezee E]

Thanos' minions are definitely a key reason why I got enjoyment out of the movie. Marvel's world barely can make the main villain interesting. Here, even the henchmen are enjoyable.

[Dukefrukem]

What was Thanos doing? Thanos originally tasked Loki into bringing him the Space Stone and failed. Marvel later revealed, off camera, that the mind Stone was corrupting Loki's motivation out of evil.

Thanos also tasked Ronin to get the power stone, which he decided to keep for himself in GotG. It wasn't until Age of Ultron where Thanos decided to take matters into his own hands. This is shown in an after credits scene.

[Dukefrukem]

Captain Marvel is a stand alone story from the Infinity War story, introducing her and taking place in the 90s, but she will absolutely play a role in Eng Game.

[Milky Joe]

Speaking of which, why was Thanos sitting on his ass for the last 6 years? What has he been doing? The movie never says. For some reason, he just decides that now is the time and so he whips through the galaxy getting all 6 stones in, like what? less than a month?.

more like a day and a half, at most!

[Grouchy]

Captain Marvel is a stand alone story from the Infinity War story, introducing her and taking place in the 90s, but she will absolutely play a role in Eng Game.
I think it's a pretty safe bet that it will explain the resurrections with something from the time traveling rulebook.

[Dukefrukem]

I think it's a pretty safe bet that it will explain the resurrections with something from the time traveling rulebook.

I know there's a ton of fan theories about time travel and whatnot. But I bet Captain Marvel was just simply off world. People will question why Fury didn't "call" her during the events of Avengers and Ultron, which I believe that Fury thought the Avengers could handle that situation. The finger snap is a whole new ball game.

[Dukefrukem]

I can agree about the snap, but it at least makes me pretty curious at how things will be returned. I'm going to avoid Captain Marvel as I'm guessing there's a fairly obvious answer in that movie.

My guess? Adam Warlock!