Black Panther (Ryan Coogler)

[Henry Gale]

IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1825683/) / Wiki (http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_(film))

http://www.joblo.com/posters/images/full/black-panther-poster-2-main.jpghttps://www.cinemaclock.com/images/posters/1000x1500/67/black-panther-2018-poster.jpg
http://www.joblo.com/posters/images/full/Black-Panther-poster-main-xl.jpg

[Henry Gale]

It wasn't until the final battle section that it really came back to me that this was an MCU movie. And I really like MCU movies (and this movie's finale)! But before that more typically-assembled portion, it just sings in such a different way. With Coogler's creative voice, with its lush colour, breathtakingly ornate design and varied textures, all filtered through Morrison's cinematography, Goransson luscious, versatile score (with bits of Kendrick's curated soundtrack sprinkled in, particularly awesomely propulsive in the Busan section of it) and with the endless storytelling flourishes unique to this sort of massive movie that just make it feel so fearless and saturated in the beauty of the culture it pulls from, perfectly reconfigured to broadcast as swaggering, pointed fantasy. It's just such exciting and moving stuff for so many reasons, often at once.

There's only so many good things I can say before I fall asleep tonight, but also so ahead of its release, and in general as a white guy who largely grew up in suburban Toronto, I just think it'll be more gratifying to delve into story elements more interestingly once spoilers aren't a fear, but there's also going to be so much conversation about the movie that I know others will be able to potently connect to and articulate more effectively than me that I look forward to hearing and seeing permeate the culture even more than it already has. For now I'll just sit back in awe and glee.

It's a beautiful piece of work. I can't wait for it to take over the world and become what it deserves to for this generation, in the now, both for those older who've been waiting for something like it their whole lives, and the children who are now lucky enough to grow up with it.

[Morris Schæffer]

Perhaps I'm not the target audience for this. I knew when I had seen the trailer, it was just going to be more of the same. Don't care that it's the first Black superhero movie, just as I didn't care that Wonder Woman was the first major superhero flick with a woman at the center. There are definitely some worthy themes in this movie, but the whole thing is just crazily devoid of something genuine, a kernel of power, emotional pull, an action scene that really thrills and they certainly do their darndest to make every word they say come across as the most important thing ever. Sometimes I think these things are outside the reach of Marvel movies. Might as well amp up the comedy like they did with Thor: Ragnarok. I didn't like the design of Wakanda, it didn't strike me as genuine Africa, but more like a garish, over-designed approximation of the real thing.

By the time there were stampeding, armor-plated rhinos charging across the battlefield I had well and truly switched off. Completely unengaging large scale battles, it reminded me of the finale of The Phantom Menace although some of the earlier action scenes were far more palatable. I liked Serkis' Ulysses, he brought some crazy, over-the-top energy to it.

It's colossally difficult to not burst into crazy laughter while reading Henry Gale's last sentence. That finale line feels so over-the-top glowing that it virtually reads as sarcasm to me.

Sorry Henry, I mean no disrespect.

[Henry Gale]

Perhaps I'm not the target audience for this. I knew when I had seen the trailer, it was just going to be more of the same. Don't care that it's the first Black superhero movie, just as I didn't care that Wonder Woman was the first major superhero flick with a woman at the center. There are definitely some worthy themes in this movie, but the whole thing is just crazily devoid of something genuine, a kernel of power, emotional pull, an action scene that really thrills and they certainly do their darndest to make every word they say come across as the most important thing ever.

[...]

I didn't like the design of Wakanda, it didn't strike me as genuine Africa, but more like a garish, over-designed approximation of the real thing.

I meeeeeeeean.. I'm sorry we didn't see the same movie? At the end of the day I'm elated that I got to have the experience of being in a packed IMAX theatre which (even after an exhaustive live Q&A stream and then technical difficulties that delayed the start of the movie) had such a palpable, sometimes audible emotional hum throughout that helped the film feel all that more vivid and potent with every beat. It felt like the part of my stomach that stress would put it in knots, the energy in that room instead had it in a warm, comforting, healing grip of sorts that carried me through it in a deeply fun bliss. It was an awesome experience for me, again, even as someone who's never had any trouble seeing stories on screen that felt like my own or had any shortage of aspirational fantasies that put people who looked like me into the roles of world-saving heroes in my life. So that's what I mean that I can only imagine how much more profoundly moving it has the potential to be for those who've never had the sort of joyful catharsis of seeing the such celebratory imagery and unfiltered cultural spirit of their own people with such aspirational material on the advantageous scale that this film provides.

I've seen some mild chatter from some about how, okay, maybe Black Panther isn't truly the first superhero movie with a black character front and center. But even if that's technically true, I think it needs to be pointed out that all of those past examples of black comic heroes have always, first of all, not always been for kids, which reduces their audience and impact significantly, but also as characters, they've been been burdened and broken in some way, or had some monstrous element they've had to battle externally that hindered their pride and internally-perceived heroism. Blade is a vampire caught between two worlds, Cyborg is a reclusive robotic-hybrid who's had his previous life taken away from him and now finds himself fighting with his new abilities, Spawn is torn apart by the grips of Hell, Steel was cursed to be in a film no one ever saw.

But T'Challa is a king.

And not only that, he's compassionate and loyal, and he's an absolute badass of a fighter who Tony Stark and James Bond wish they swagger and resources of, if only they knew what they were missing out on to then envy. Wakanda creates a beautiful sense of an Earth where a section of the world where all humanity began that has so long been exploited and ignored actually has the capacity to possess the most advanced and powerful society in the world. There's a legion of stunning role model characters there, but even just taking T'Challa, with all his understanable inner conflict, he's an aspiration superhero figure no matter who you are, but imagine on top of that if he also filled the void of echoing the attributes of someone you see in the mirror every day the way nearly every other major big-screen hero never quite could.

It's not overtly about the politics of it. Little kids don't know or care about the intricacies of why the world is the way it is. They look to things like animation and superhero media because it's a fantastical enhancement and elevation of what they see on an everyday basis. The way young girls now dress up as Wonder Woman for Halloween and wear clothes with her emblem the rest of the year because in some small way makes them feel happier and even stronger, and reminds them of her and there being no obstacle she can't overcome, Black Panther now blows open that sort of avenue for black youth and even those raising them, and needless to say with the world the way it often is that they're a demographic who often need to have those sort of inspirational figures and role models the most, mythical or not.

So that's what I mean by it taking over the world and being moved by that. If and when it soon becomes a movie everyone sees and makes every possible dollar at the box office, there'll no longer any way for those in charge who often keep things so white and in such outmoded cultural formation to ever be able to reasonably deny the power of what happens when those notions are upended. It'll no longer be a movie, it'll be the thing that helped officially blow open a door that can never be closed again. The film, the soundtrack, the clothes, all the imagery, the emotion it all conjures, the pride of spreading the influence of those elements beyond this, and it's the impact that'll surely have long after these movies are done with. It doesn't have to be for everyone, but it will absolutely be for some people more than anything ever has before.

[transmogrifier]

By far my least favorite MCU movie yet. From a story and technical viewpoint, this is stultifying. So many great actors wasted.

[Skitch]

I have no opinion of the movie yet, but Henry, remember, it's the MCU. Dissension is the minority.

[Morris Schæffer]

It's not overtly about the politics of it. Little kids don't know or care about the intricacies of why the world is the way it is. They look to things like animation and superhero media because it's a fantastical enhancement and elevation of what they see on an everyday basis. The way young girls now dress up as Wonder Woman for Halloween and wear clothes with her emblem the rest of the year because in some small way makes them feel happier and even stronger, and reminds them of her and there being no obstacle she can't overcome, Black Panther now blows open that sort of avenue for black youth and even those raising them, and needless to say with the world the way it often is that they're a demographic who often need to have those sort of inspirational figures and role models the most, mythical or not.

If a movie does that, I cannot dislike it too strongly, but I cannot give a movie a positive review based on any supposed impact it might have on our world's youth. If I had seen Black Panther at the age of 10 I'm sure it would have been the greatest thing ever. So I think that argument is flawed. ;)

[Dukefrukem]

By far my least favorite MCU movie yet. From a story and technical viewpoint, this is stultifying. So many great actors wasted.

Is there any humor in the film?

[Morris Schæffer]

Is there any humor in the film?

There is. I liked those moments, but it doesn't commit to it fully like with Thor Ragnarok. Fine, so they went with a different angle, it's not the same type of movie, I can understand that, but I wanted more. It's just too difficult to take seriously as drama, as something, which according to Henry, will be a beacon of hope for generations to come and be remembered for all eternity. :D

I understand that he saw what he did, I'm sure millions of others will too, the reviews are too stellar to simply ignore, but I was unmoved, unthrilled, and for portions of it unengaged.

[Dukefrukem]

If there's humor in the movie, it's not worse than the Incredible Hulk (which is humorless).

[Watashi]

I will never understand why trans continues to watch the Marvel films opening week.

It’s one of life’s biggest mysteries.

[transmogrifier]

Is there any humor in the film?

Some, but it's no Thor Ragnarok.

[Henry Gale]

If there's humor in the movie, it's not worse than the Incredible Hulk (which is humorless).

I'll say that as much as there are funny bits (particularly with M'Baku and Shuri), it's probably the Marvel Studios film that feels the less of a need to rely on jokes at a consistent pace, especially to seemingly relieve tension and keep things light overall. Coogler uses the fairly standard structural framework of most Marvel movies, but with in it he really indulges in the drama and tragedy of things when it wants to (and even with characters you wouldn't expect) more than usual, and as a result it may be their least overtly comedic since... I dunno, I guess the Captain America movies go for jokes the least of any series in the MCU? So maybe Civil War.

[Peng]

Third favorite MCU, after Civil War and first Avengers (and finally the first solo superhero outing to break my lot-of-heroes-make-these-things-more-interesting streak of the studio preference). More thoughts later, but just want to note that hearing Lupita Nyong'o playfully speak in Korean in such a kick for me.

[megladon8]

https://image.ibb.co/n77TmS/917318_A3_020_F_4742_BF6_C_D9_ F0_A974_CBCA.jpg (https://ibb.co/cTQERS)

[Henry Gale]

Um, okay? A screenshot of a bad tweet from someone with an incessant feed (having so many tweets that my app wouldn't even let me scroll to the point of that tweet posted two days ago) that in only the last day seems to also include transphobic nonsense?

The article simply points out that this is Marvel Studio's second movie in the row where they've filmed character moments that would've done wonders to show they were actually representing lesbian or bisexual characters not just for the first time in nearly 20 films, but also on a large scale in the mainstream beyond the small fraction they currently are (and not to mention an even smaller sliver of a percentage with women of colour, which both Ragnarok and Panther would've depicted), but subsequently chose to delete those scenes. And that for a film like Black Panther, with how much inclusivity and representation that it already exhibits, it would've simply been a big, encouraging opportunity for that. Feige has publicly stated that's a conscious next step, but it could've easily already happened twice in only the last few months.

So, yeah, not sure what your point was meant to be there.

[Peng]

My favorite solo superhero outing from the studio since Thor (a qualifier that gets Guardians of the Galaxy out of the way), which happens to parallel this in a lot of ways that emphasize why MCU's latest is so much better. Each film's royal intrigue faintly has a Shakespearean sweep, tying closely to its complex villain, that builds to a stirring, emotional climax. But Black Panther has a singular focus in storyline and aesthetics, without the other one's need to halve into its earth stuff (even if I enjoyed that quite a bit). And both aspects have thrillingly resonant, real-world political weight woven tightly into their DNA, making each royal ritual, plot turn, character struggle, and fight scene have an added heft of tactile world-building and heavy stakes. I liked Civil War and Winter Soldier a lot, but mostly for their stories, while recognizing that their much-praised "politics point" imports are kind of wishy-washy. Not so here.

None of this is more apparent than in Michael B. Jordan's electrifying performance (even if maybe too strategically hidden in the first half), whose rage and motivation are born out of the tightly written combination of real history and comic-book fiction. He is thus heightened into a wrenching portrayal of understandable, circumstance-born evil that becomes the pivot/statement of the whole film. Never thought the first time I come closest to tears in an MCU film will be because of its villain. And that makes a post-credit scene, the first one here that is a direct effect from his ideology and also an end-point to the whole film's arc, absolutely necessary for once. 8.5/10

[Peng]

Also, I am far from knowledgeable about this topic (so feel free to correct me on anything), but interesting to see that the first two times Marvel has non-white directors, colonialism is tackled head-on in developing the villains, especially as they pertain to the directors' backgroud. As background story for Hela, getting shunned asides for post-colonial mythmaking in Ragnarok. And as almost the main conflict, to be the goal for reversal of that balance, in Black Panther here.

[Peng]

Since I seem to haven't done this in Ragnarok thread...

Captain America: Civil War (2016)
The Avengers (2012)
Black Panther (2018)
Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014)
Thor (2011)
Iron Man 3 (2013)
Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017)
Iron Man (2008)
Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017)
Doctor Strange (2016)
Captain America: The First Avenger (2011)
Iron Man 2 (2010)
Ant-Man (2015)
The Incredible Hulk (2008)
Thor: The Dark World (2013)

[megladon8]

Um, okay? A screenshot of a bad tweet from someone with an incessant feed (having so many tweets that my app wouldn't even let me scroll to the point of that tweet posted two days ago) that in only the last day seems to also include transphobic nonsense?

The article simply points out that this is Marvel Studio's second movie in the row where they've filmed character moments that would've done wonders to show they were actually representing lesbian or bisexual characters not just for the first time in nearly 20 films, but also on a large scale in the mainstream beyond the small fraction they currently are (and not to mention an even smaller sliver of a percentage with women of colour, which both Ragnarok and Panther would've depicted), but subsequently chose to delete those scenes. And that for a film like Black Panther, with how much inclusivity and representation that it already exhibits, it would've simply been a big, encouraging opportunity for that. Feige has publicly stated that's a conscious next step, but it could've easily already happened twice in only the last few months.

So, yeah, not sure what your point was meant to be there.


I’m not on twitter so I have no idea who this person is, nor did I know they are apparently annoying.

Wasn’t making a point. Just laughed at the stupid comment by the twitter user.

[[ETM]]

I thought this was pretty damn awesome. The film is pretty political, and obviously, intentionally so, and I've already seen hate on that basis from close friends who saw it with us. Let's just say I'm probably never going to a movie with them again. I love the design, the direction (save for some too-tight closeup fights which almost never look right in 3D) and pretty much all of the performances. The music was excellent, even Lamar's stuff that is heard throughout is tolerable (I'm not exactly a fan). As I was watching, I kept thinking about all the fuming, stupid rage and indifference it would induce in all kinds of people, and all I could say was "You go for it, Coogler". If you get a chance to do these things in a comic book tentpole, go for it all the way.

[transmogrifier]

Rankings:

Guardians of the Galaxy - 69
The Avengers - 68
Ant-Man - 67
Thor: Ragnarok - 66
Captain America: The Winter Soldier - 64
Iron Man 3 - 64
Spider-Man: Homecoming - 64
Captain America: The First Avenger - 64
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - 64
Iron Man 2 - 58
Doctor Strange - 58
Captain America: Civil War - 56
Iron Man - 55
Avengers: Age of Ultron - 55
The Incredible Hulk - 55
Thor - 51
Black Panther - 40

Not seen:

Thor 2

I have still not seen any of these films more than once. I have the feeling many of them would drop in my estimation.

[Dukefrukem]

This was the most low key super hero movie ever. It's funny that I made fun of that one negative review that said there needed to be more bad guy fighting, but that's kind of what I was thinking the entire time. And I take back what I said before about Thor 3 having the best cast. This movie is far superior. Michael B Jordan kills it. Letitia Wright is a stand out. (And I think I'm in love with her) and Andy Serkis was also excellent. More later as I let it sit in, rankings tomorrow.

[Peng]

Oh yeah, in any other MCU film Serkis would probably be noted as one of the studio's better villains, but here he's overshadowed by Michael B. Jordan, who's rightfully praised. He's still so good though; I haven't expected Serkis to be such a fun secondary villain here, way more deliciously unhinged than his turn in Age of Ultron. Two good villains in one Marvel film, who would have thought that? (Now need Serkis to act more out of his (excellent) mocap work as well)

[Morris Schæffer]

This was the most low key super hero movie ever.

How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?

[transmogrifier]

How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?

Could be code for "boring", because it certainly was that.

[[ETM]]

Or not, in this reality.

Sent from my Mi A1 using Tapatalk

[Dukefrukem]

How do you define low key? To me BP felt loaded with crazy action, chases, mass battle scenes, repeat scenes of two dudes challenging each other etc...

Isn't The Dark Knight more low-key? CA: Winter Soldier?

No. There's two action set pieces. The car chase and the ending. Hardly crazy action.

[Dukefrukem]

Early reports are saying this could actually open over $200+. Mind boggling numbers if it beats Age of Ultron.

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

[transmogrifier]

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

They could if they find an interesting plot and give them something to do that doesn't involve reiterating the theme of the film at length every chance they get. The three main female characters have potential, but this film doesn't give them much room to grow or make a meaningful impression beyond what the charismatic actors can wring from it.

[transmogrifier]

;587641']Or not, in this reality.


I need my movies to do more than just play to my political beliefs and my interest in seeing a diversity of visions on screen. This thing is glacially paced and poorly constructed; all heart, no blood.

[Dukefrukem]

Trans is right. This isn't the most engaging super hero film. I enjoyed the world building here, but this isn't exactly something I'm excited to watch again.

[Dukefrukem]

1. The Avengers 2012 ★★★★★
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2014 ★★★★★
3. Avengers: Age of Ultron 2015 ★★★★½
4. Thor: Ragnarok 2017 ★★★★½
5. Spider-Man: Homecoming 2017 ★★★★½
6. Captain America: Civil War 2016 ★★★★½
7. Guardians of the Galaxy 2014 ★★★★½
8. Iron Man 2008 ★★★★
9. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 2017 ★★★★
10. Ant-Man 2015 ★★★★
11. Doctor Strange 2016 ★★★★
12. Iron Man 3 2013 ★★★★
13. Captain America: The First Avenger 2011★★★½
14. Thor 2011 ★★★½
15. Black Panther ★★★
16. Iron Man 2 2010 ★★
17. Thor: The Dark World 2013 ★★
18. The Incredible Hulk 2008 negative 300 stars

[Morris Schæffer]

No. There's two action set pieces. The car chase and the ending. Hardly crazy action.

The casino? It's a lot of numbing spectacle, over the top. Maybe that makes it worse for me.

[[ETM]]

I need my movies to do more than just play to my political beliefs and my interest in seeing a diversity of visions on screen. This thing is glacially paced and poorly constructed; all heart, no blood.

I don't hold big budget comic book blockbusters to the same standards as "regular" films. I'm well aware of the limitations and expectations imposed on pretty much everyone involved, and for the price of 4-5 Euros a pop, I'll take a movie that is made and shown over some hypothetical ideal, if it's close enough to it in most of the categories. Being a visual artist, I really enjoyed the design of the entire movie in every aspect; I got a real kick out of watching young black actors I like get some well deserved spotlight; I'm a fan of Goransson's mix of orchestral and electronic music; I mean, I'm a simple man who's seen the previous films and even read the comic, and I cared about the characters, their place in the story and I was eager to see how it will end up within the larger fabric of the MCU. I was never bored. I'll see more MCU films like this if they make them.

[Dukefrukem]

The casino? It's a lot of numbing spectacle, over the top. Maybe that makes it worse for me.

The Casino is the start of the car chase. Though I do remember there was some clever editing around Okoye's fight scene that I remember being impressive.

[Watashi]

Good lord this movie is phenomenal. Finally a MCU film with a pulse and an identity that's not tied down to a bigger thread. Coogler brings the same energy and attitude from his previous films into Wakanda and everything from the colors and vibrant cast is enthralling. Also, for the first time since Thor, we actually have a villain that actually features complexity and grounded in real social issues rather than stock "rule the world" mentality.

The Panther on Panther climax is a bit clumsy, but everything else is wonderful.

[Watashi]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWIMlDIXkAEW7tL.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

Early reports are saying this could actually open over $200+. Mind boggling numbers if it beats Age of Ultron.

No doubt they'll get a trilogy of these characters.

Now they're saying $205. If people thought Wonder Woman was a wake up call...

[ledfloyd]

I went to the noon matinee showing of this, and the theater was packed. I ended up about four rows back from the screen in a large auditorium. A little girl walking in in a dashiki and T'Challa mask made my day.

I enjoyed this a lot, even if I think its politics are a bit troubling (The "villain" is a black American man who wants to use Wakanda's technology to fight white supremacy around the globe? His father gets killed for wanting to share the wealth to end mass incarceration? It's hard not to read the film as pro-segregaton). It's funny that someone complained about the lack of jokes. When it did try for humor, I thought it often felt out of place. But as a long-time reader of comics, I really enjoyed seeing the world and culture of Wakanda so fully realized. The score and cinematography both aid in the overall feeling.

And what a cast. Everyone is great.

I think the best Marvel movies (Avengers, Guardians 1, Civil War, maybe Ragnarok) feature a group of heroes who can play off one another, this might be the best the studio has done with a solo outing. Ant Man and Winter Soldier are its only competition. You get the sense that they backed off and allowed Coogler to fully realize his vision.

He's been pretty impressive thus far in his career. I would like to see him go back and do something more reserved like Fruitvale Station next. It annoys me that he's (a year) younger than me.

[Mal]

This is pretty spectacular and its probably my favorite Marvel via Disney film. The cast is universally great and the scenery is eye-popping- there's something new around every corner and I'm stoked to see it again.

[Dukefrukem]

Now they're saying $205. If people thought Wonder Woman was a wake up call...

$218, largest opening ever in Feb/MCU/

[dreamdead]

This is... fine. I love what the film's success means and represents, but it's just a bit too beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, even though some of the imagery or ideas make it more evocative.

Daniel Kaluuya's W'Kabi is the epitome of the problem, where ideological differences are just scrubbed away, so that his betrayal of T'Challa in favor of Killmonger just doesn't resonate after 20+ years of friendship. Sure, the latter delivers Klaue's body to him, but it just doesn't offer the complexity. And Killmonger shifts a little too quickly at the finale, moving from self-righteousness demagogue to morally complex without the necessary shading. In brief, I rather agree with ledfloyd's critique of the ideological confusion that this film is playing with.

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

[Morris Schæffer]

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

Superhero action is by default more elaborate (swap with preposterous if need be) than regular action so I can imagine this could be an extra challenge for a director to ensure everything is coherent when you've got guys walking up the side of buildings and whatnot. Although I'm not sure why you say it is not on Coogler when, say, a fight scene is filmed too up-close. For the heaps of praise thrown upon this film and the helmer, I find it hard to reconcile what you said with my own personal feeling, namely that it's perfectly ok for this to be on him.

Although the movie is far from an incoherent mess.

[Wryan]

I enjoyed it. Thought the humor worked fine, for the most part. Loved the actors. Appreciated the extra shading given to Whitaker and Winston Duke and Sterling K. Brown. Found Letitia Wright totally adorable. Not sure Killmonger's motivations are entirely sound--he really studied and trained his entire life to kill T'Challa specifically? Even though he had nothing to do with his "creation" and only just became king recently? The broader desire for Wakanda's resources and power are better-sketched. I liked that there aren't as many typical action scenes. The challenge fights are action scenes, essentially--mileage varies on impact, tho. Lupita nearly got Amy Adams-ed until the end. The effects work got real wonky at the end there, otherwise nifty visuals and design.

Small point, but after the silent power displayed by Florence Kasumba in Civil War, it was sort of sad to see her pushed into the background and have her badassery transmuted into Danai Gurira's general, tho I did like her a lot too.

EDIT: Another small point, but I love the actor who played T'Challa's father (old version), and I'm very glad he got more to do after such a brief appearance in CW. His pronouncement about fathers preparing their sons resonated strongly with me.

[Ezee E]

This was very good, and possibly one of my favorite out of the MCU movies, not that this is saying much.

I liked it a lot, because it really is its own entity. No plug-ins of other Avengers for forced reasons. No gems. And while there is sort of a "world-ending" scenario, it's not over-blown special effects. Plus, there's an actual villain with understandable motives. Although still a bit questionable on his path, but I'll pick my battles here.

The world building may be a little long, but I hope this means they can just get right into it in the future assuming a sequel will be in the works. I'll take world-building over the origin story anyday. Plus, I knew nothing about Black Panther in the comics except that he merely existed, so kind of cool to get all of this figured out.

I dug the set pieces. There was a beginning, middle, and end to them... Casino being my favorite really, since it had the least of the special effects. Could've done without the CGI rhinos.

[Ezee E]

What are some other Black Panther villains for down the road that would be good to this world? I'd like to look them up.

[Pop Trash]

This is... fine. I love what the film's success means and represents, but it's just a bit too beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, even though some of the imagery or ideas make it more evocative.

Daniel Kaluuya's W'Kabi is the epitome of the problem, where ideological differences are just scrubbed away, so that his betrayal of T'Challa in favor of Killmonger just doesn't resonate after 20+ years of friendship. Sure, the latter delivers Klaue's body to him, but it just doesn't offer the complexity. And Killmonger shifts a little too quickly at the finale, moving from self-righteousness demagogue to morally complex without the necessary shading. In brief, I rather agree with ledfloyd's critique of the ideological confusion that this film is playing with.

And while it's beautiful to look at, some of the many fights (car chase and the first king fight) are cut in ways that deny actual heightened tension. This one, though, isn't on Coogler so much as just a critique of the state of contemporary action cutting, which gets everyone into a shot and then has to stagger their close-ups in delays.

Agree with all this. What's weird is that Creed's (still Coogler's best film) fight scenes are really well choreographed and shot, often in very long takes. I feel like this got put into Marvel's action editing blender and Coogler couldn't really do much.

I loved the costumes (early frontrunner for best costume Oscar) especially since they had to convey a mix of Afro-futurism, historical African garb, and contemporary African garb + superhero / villain outfits. Also really dug the cinematography, world building / production design, and music.

Screenplay / story is a little lacking. I kept fantasizing a movie about Killmonger and how interesting that would be w/ more Oakland stuff (I'm biased since I live in Oaktown), and Killmonger becoming "woke" and later a more organic conflict / relationship between him and T'Challa. As it stands, I guess I should be happy Coogler was able to smuggle political stuff into a giant Marvel movie at all, but it's not quite enough for my taste.

[DavidSeven]

There are definitely glimpses of vision here, more than you'll find in other Marvel films. The film is also mercifully restrained on jokes. In the end, however, Coogler is still beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, and the film comes with a lot of the same old flaws. This stuff is just way too reliant on digital world-building. The quality of "cinema" is lacking as a result. The film feels most immediate in tangible locations -- the streets of Oakland, a Museum heist, etc. -- but there just isn't enough of that here. Again, too much deference to Marvel's house team to build the same-old, boring, and overly digitized set pieces.

I was also surprised that the music didn't feel like a bigger "character" in the film, as suggested by the marketing campaign. I thought Coogler would have carte blanche here, but it felt like the same bland Marvel scoring to me, with some specific cultural infusions. Certainly, the music was more distinctive here than other MCU films, but it felt like a half-measure, at most.

Wonderful cast of characters, however. Casting and character building is easily the film's greatest strength. As strange as it sounds, Michael B. Jordan feels like the weakest link in a large ensemble. He has the physical presence of a true movie star, but "menace" isn't his wheelhouse and this shortcoming is only amplified with some unnecessary scene-chewing. By and large though, this film has my favorite set of characters in the entire universe.

[Ezee E]

There are definitely glimpses of vision here, more than you'll find in other Marvel films. The film is also mercifully restrained on jokes. In the end, however, Coogler is still beholden to the Marvel aesthetic, and the film comes with a lot of the same old flaws. This stuff is just way too reliant on digital world-building. The quality of "cinema" is lacking as a result. The film feels most immediate in tangible locations -- the streets of Oakland, a Museum heist, etc. -- but there just isn't enough of that here. Again, too much deference to Marvel's house team to build the same-old, boring, and overly digitized set pieces.

I was also surprised that the music didn't feel like a bigger "character" in the film, as suggested by the marketing campaign. I thought Coogler would have carte blanche here, but it felt like the same bland Marvel scoring to me, with some specific cultural infusions. Certainly, the music was more distinctive here than other MCU films, but it felt like a half-measure, at most.

Wonderful cast of characters, however. Casting and character building is easily the film's greatest strength. As strange as it sounds, Michael B. Jordan feels like the weakest link in a large ensemble. He has the physical presence of a true movie star, but "menace" isn't his wheelhouse and this shortcoming is only amplified with some unnecessary scene-chewing. By and large though, this film has my favorite set of characters in the entire universe.

I was disappointed to not recognize any of the Kendrick Lamar tracks in this. They were there right??

[DavidSeven]

I was disappointed to not recognize any of the Kendrick Lamar tracks in this. They were there right??

Apparently, the Black Panther album curated by Kendrick Lamar isn’t actually a soundtrack for the movie. The album is described as merely being “inspired” by the film. A cynic might say that it’s little more than a joint marketing effort to push two completely separate products.

That’s not to say I think the soundtrack should’ve had a bunch of songs from that album. I was just disappointed that they didn’t go further outside the box than they did.

[Henry Gale]

There are three tracks from the soundtrack in the movie: 'Pray For Me' (as they enter the casino), a special score-infused remix of 'Opps' during the car chase after that, and then 'All The Stars' at the beginning of the credits.

But I think the soundtrack is fire so I do wish the film could've incorporated more from it in natural ways, but its existence with any affiliation is a gift in itself so it's all good.

[Ezee E]

There are three tracks from the soundtrack in the movie: 'Pray For Me' (as they enter the casino), a special score-infused remix of 'Opps' during the car chase after that, and then 'All The Stars' at the beginning of the credits.

But I think the soundtrack is fire so I do wish the film could've incorporated more from it in natural ways, but its existence with any affiliation is a gift in itself so it's all good.

Yeah, the "All the Stars" is pretty prominent obviously.

I agree with Seven that I was hoping the same deal with the music. Especially since there were posters of Public Enemy (?) posted on the closet walls.

[Philip J. Fry]

Par the course for Marvel movies. Good, not great.

It was a little more distinctive than the rest, though. I'll give it that.

[Sycophant]

I liked this more than any other Marvel movie I've seen (rankings behind spoiler). Really liked the cast on the whole. Michael B. Jordan is the heart of this. Which means the ideological conflict driving the action (though messy and perhaps problematic) is actually of interest. I wish the action was better choreographed/cut/scripted. Superhero literally being invincible in his suit made basically all of T'Challa's as-Black-Panther action sequences kind of dull.


1. Black Panther
2. Iron Man 3
3. The Avengers
4. Guardians of the Galaxy
5. Ant Man
6. Iron Man

[Grouchy]

What can I say? My new favorite Marvel movie and one of the best live action superhero films I've ever seen.

[MadMan]

That was badass. Jordan stole the entire movie.

[Milky Joe]

Echoing the previous 3 comments. This was awesome. The thing had style.

Easily the best villain in a Marvel movie yet.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yeah, will post more tomorrow, but this was fun and interesting and frustrating at times but worth it. Go Marvel. Two consecutive films that I enjoy enough that I'd recommend them to others.

Also: two films that climax with a fight on bridge after someone has a telegraphed "Han Solo" come to Jesus eleventh-hour return, both of which are about a quarter as effective as Han Solo coming back.

Loki in Thor, Gorilla Guy in this one.

[Sycophant]

Also: two films that climax with a fight on bridge after someone has a telegraphed "Han Solo" come to Jesus eleventh-hour return, both of which are about a quarter as effective as Han Solo coming back.

This was so foreshadowed in Black Panther that there was essentially no suspense to it. One of the film's sloppiest plot points.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This was so foreshadowed in Black Panther that there was essentially no suspense to it. One of the film's sloppiest plot points.

The Han Solo moment?

Because yeah, not only is it foreshadowed, but it's only foreshadowed. You get no sense from the character that he could change, or that he's carrying doubt. So when he shows up, it's more, "Yeah, I guess that's what these movies do," rather than "I understand why this character made this choice."

But it's not like I'm down on the flick. It's very good. I loved that one of my favorite characters could be a young girl who's a whiz with computer shit but also totally a younger sister. One of the best examples of the film giving real utility to its female characters. Angela Bassett fares worst (I don't recall her being present for the climax), Nyongo gets some development (maybe it'll read better on rewatch), and Guirara and Wright feel like more striking, fuller-blooded characters.

[Grouchy]

You should all watch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry8e5ldzLDQ) this, it's great fun.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMzFGgmQOc

[Skitch]

I am angered that that is not a weekly show for me to consume.

[Wryan]

The ghost and the potato salad were killer.

[TGM]

I honestly wasn't at all interested in Infinity War until I started seeing people's reactions to it. So based on those reactions, my curiosity was piqued, and I decided I'll check it out this week. And since I'm doing that, may as well see Black Panther beforehand. So I watched that today, and yeah, it was just another really middle of the road mediocre Marvel outing. Like, there wasn't anything necessarily bad about it, but by the exact same token, there was seriously nothing that was even the least bit exceptional about it either. Through and through just another superhero movie that exists.

And just like that, my interest in Infinity War is plummeting all over again. I will say though, at least this one didn't have any of that frustrating and overly obnoxious forced humor as so many other recent Marvel outings...

[Irish]

On second view, I'm glad I never wrote about this one. I would have embarrassed myself, because the movie directly addresses the problems I had with it.

A few things stood out this time around:

- It's as much a coming of age story as anything else, because T'Challa struggles to embrace any one particular path. At one point, Nakia reminds T'Challa that he must decide "what kind of king he wants to be." But she might as well be saying "what kind of man." There's a similar exchange between T'Challa and the spirit of his dead father.

- The way the story meanders for the first hour fits thematically but man oh man it also looks haphazard and amateurish because the second half is so heavily plotted and briskly paced.

- Re-watching this right after "Ragnarok" and "Infinity War" is a downer because "Panther's" set pieces suck by comparison. There isn't one that's visually interesting or dynamic. The fight choreography is bland for a movie with so much money around it. (The two "ritual combat" scenes are a case in point.) The climax is particularly disappointing. Who thought it was a good idea to stage a key fight on a glorified subway platform?

- The costumes and production design are still ace, and I think this movie deserves to win Oscars in these categories, despite the fact that Coogler never establishes Wakanda as a distinct location with meaningful, character driven detail.

- Black Panther is now the third major hero in the MCU with a high tech, nearly magical, supersuit. This is boring; it's an easy out in terms of plot and action. I don't buy movie tix because of fantasy tech. I buy for the story, and the people.

- I'm still ambivalent about the performances. Serkis was all over the place and Jordan's delivery had no nuance. They sorta ran roughshod over their scenes, leaving me with the impression that Coogler isn't a great director.

- After seeing him in "Widows," Daniel Kaluuya might have made a better Killmonger. That dude can nail stone cold menace.

- The first time I saw this, I thought the film's politics were fucked. The second time, they're tricky but on point. That Killmonger is right --- and by extension T'Challa and his family wrong -- is an interesting dynamic and one that I've always wanted and never quite gotten. (Ie: A villain with something to say, with a position I have to grapple with, instead of another bozo lusting after all the gold in Fort Knox or wanting world domination for the sake of it.) Different characters occasionally offer very Western, imperialist attitudes. Even more interesting is the way the film ends: T'Challa takes Killmonger's central position but adapts it to fit his style --- Wakanda will be open but will offer aid instead of conquest.

- I'm starting to really miss action films that could pause for a beat, where you might learn something about a character or two outside the context of the immediate plot.

- That all said: I enjoyed this much more than the first time around. Interesting movie. Could have been better. Wish the action scenes didn't suck.

[Ezee E]

Kaluuya would've made a better Killmonger.

And Serkis in live-action was pretty terrible.

[Wryan]

Jordan is a better actor when he's not delivering lines. He has a good face and can do good work with his eyes.

[Grouchy]

- The first time I saw this, I thought the film's politics were fucked. The second time, they're tricky but on point. That Killmonger is right --- and by extension T'Challa and his family wrong -- is an interesting dynamic and one that I've always wanted and never quite gotten. (Ie: A villain with something to say, with a position I have to grapple with, instead of another bozo lusting after all the gold in Fort Knox or wanting world domination for the sake of it.) Different characters occasionally offer very Western, imperialist attitudes. Even more interesting is the way the film ends: T'Challa takes Killmonger's central position but adapts it to fit his style --- Wakanda will be open but will offer aid instead of conquest.
It would have been even better if they hadn't taken the shortcut of making Killmonger really mean and aggressive towards his own people with no sense of loyalty. His origin story makes you think "he's right, they really fucked him up" and then immediately "oh but he's an asshole, he's the bad guy". I thought that was lazy.

[Dukefrukem]

It would have been even better if they hadn't taken the shortcut of making Killmonger really mean and aggressive towards his own people with no sense of loyalty. His origin story makes you think "he's right, they really fucked him up" and then immediately "oh but he's an asshole, he's the bad guy". I thought that was lazy.

Totally agree here.

[Morris Schæffer]

Good point Grouchy.

[Irish]

Disney announced today that Academy Award®-nominated and SAG® winner Black Panther will return to the big screen to celebrate Black History Month for a one-week engagement, February 1–7, at 250 participating AMC Theatres locations. To ensure that the movie is accessible to all, tickets are free for everyone, and there will be two showings per day at each participating theater.

https://www.thewaltdisneycompany.com/black-panther-returns-to-the-big-screen-beginning-february-1/