Westworld (Season 2)

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmfriZoMw0

[Ezee E]

I'm one of the few, but I'm in.

[Milky Joe]

Yeah, I can't wait to see where this goes next.

[Peng]

I had the chance to watch the premiere in theater for Thai promotional press on Friday. Keep in mind that the show's pilot is one of my favorite pilots in recent years (love the way it presents a haunting, gorgeous, impeccably crafted loop of existence, then keeps adding details and rifts to that loop, before ends with a definitive crack in the last scene), and this premiere is... just fine. Very much a transitional, setting-things-up episode. I feel like the turn last season pushes the show into a pulpier territory, and the still somber tone sometimes feels at odds with the more genre story now. But it's more violent and visceral, with the consequences of season 1's finale turning almost all storylines and characters into pure anarchy and survival modes (and I saw some reviews saying positively that the season leans more into its own thrills as it goes along). I groaned internally though when we reached the end and that in media res framing turns out to not be a one-episode thing, and might last a while; the mystery-box approach last season is divisive though still purposeful enough for me, but here after the last finale's shift it just seems so perversely unnecessary now.

Highlights for me: Jeffrey Wright's acting, Tessa Thompson given more screentime, Thandie Newton's still involving storyline.

[Dukefrukem]

Anyone else but Peng watch this??

I DVRed it but been busy lately.

[Ezee E]

I watched it. If you liked Season 1, you'll like this. If not, you probably won't.

Steven Wright seems to be the main player at this point. Being the great actor he is, I'm fine with this.

[Ezee E]

Today's episode was a standout. Loved it.

[Peng]

Yeah, that was more like it. Several timelines as usual but this time focused mostly on Dolores' memories of Delos throughout the years, for this season's mystery. Feels more cohesive rather than separated like last week, or kept too opaque like last season's.

And seeing the Mad Men-ishly unrevealing sypnosis of future episodes, I can't wait for episode 5. Welcome to Shogun World!

[Ezee E]

Yeah, that was more like it. Several timelines as usual but this time focused mostly on Dolores' memories of Delos throughout the years, for this season's mystery. Feels more cohesive rather than separated like last week, or kept too opaque like last season's.

And seeing the Mad Men-ishly unrevealing sypnosis of future episodes, I can't wait for episode 5. Welcome to Shogun World!

Yeah, and the timelines served the story's purpose. It was all cohesive. If it weren't for reddit, I would've thought it was one timeline until Clifton Collins got killed and showed up somewhere else in the same episode (great character by the way).

Also enjoying that there is still aspects of the game itself, such as Ford's planting of what the soldiers do when asked to join Man In Black. Great scene.

How many episodes is this season? Hopefully the gates that everyone is seemingly going to isn't just the entrance for Shogun World, lol.

[Dukefrukem]

Caught up. Really love the new park introductions.

[Ezee E]

Caught up. Really love the new park introductions.

Yeah. Raj World seems way more fun than I would've thought.

[Dukefrukem]

Good episode. Now we know it's not just a park and it's not just some AI revolution.

[Ezee E]

I don't know the actor who played Father Delos, but he did the best "robot meltdown" that I've seen since Abernathy in Episode I. Incredible scene of personal loss mixed with robotic play.

No Delores or Maeve in the whole episode, and it ends up being one of the better of the series. That might mean something...

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh that was pretty great. I feel like this show is entering into Lost territory now. They need to be really careful where they take this.

[Ezee E]

Yeh that was pretty great. I feel like this show is entering into Lost territory now. They need to be really careful where they take this.

I'm just really hoping that Hopkins isn't still alive in any capacity (robot or not), and ditto to Ed Harris being a robot, finding himself as one.

Other then that, now that it's completely frank in its timelines, I'm digging each episode. Just confused as to why certain robots still seem to be involved in the game and no awareness that there's a revolution.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm just really hoping that Hopkins isn't still alive in any capacity (robot or not), and ditto to Ed Harris being a robot, finding himself as one.

Other then that, now that it's completely frank in its timelines, I'm digging each episode. Just confused as to why certain robots still seem to be involved in the game and no awareness that there's a revolution.

I have absolute confidence the former will happen. I was even expecting it to happen in last night's episode. However, the fact they keep hiding that someone else is playing that role, makes me reconsider my own theory.

[Peng]

Oh wow, I feel like that was the best episode since the pilot. Didn't expect that because I knew going in that the samurai cliffhanger will not be addressed until next one and I was dubious (from the promo) about Ed Harris' storyline being of much interest to me after first season. Never expect it to be this good, and also parallel with Bernard's storyline to dovetail at the end wonderfully. In retrospect I am not surprised I love this ep as the James Delos scenes have the recursive feel as the pilot, but with narrative momentum forward instead of showing cracks in the world-building. Can't believe this is Lisa Joy's directorial debut too.

[Milky Joe]

those Delos scenes were haunting. it was more than just a robot meltdown... it was a human soul broken and rearranged and destroyed. fantastic stuff.

[Ezee E]

Shogun World was everything I hoped for.

[Ezee E]

I think another reason this season has worked out so well is that each episode can almost be stand-alone, something that a lot of television hasn't been able to accomplish over the years. Yesterday being a great example of it with Maeve's subplot, and last week with the Delos owner.

[Ezee E]

How many other TV shows basically have an entire episode in another language?

[Peng]

I feel like there must be at least one other, but it escapes me at the moment.

Feels weird to call this episode, focusing on a host, the most humane Westworld yet, but yeah. The most singular focus for the first time ever does so well by it (even the one other strand turns out to tie in with the main story the whole time in the end), making this heartbreaking story so intimate and resonating. Maybe best performance of the season too. This season is a bit messy, reflecting both the ambition and events that don't hover under a unified mystery box atmosphere like in season 1 anymore. But it makes some standout, unique episodes like "The Riddle of the Sphinx" and this one possible.

And that was a gorgeous, haunting teaser for next week (wonder if they cut it that way to maintain the mood from this episode?): William's backstory!

[Ezee E]

I feel like there must be at least one other, but it escapes me at the moment.

Feels weird to call this episode, focusing on a host, the most humane Westworld yet, but yeah. The most singular focus for the first time ever does so well by it (even the one other strand turns out to tie in with the main story the whole time in the end), making this heartbreaking story so intimate and resonating. Maybe best performance of the season too. This season is a bit messy, reflecting both the ambition and events that don't hover under a unified mystery box atmosphere like in season 1 anymore. But it makes some standout, unique episodes like "The Riddle of the Sphinx" and this one possible.

And that was a gorgeous, haunting teaser for next week (wonder if they cut it that way to maintain the mood from this episode?): William's backstory!

Yeah, we've had solo backstories on just about everything else at this point. I'm guessing the finale will lead to some of the androids breaking out into the real world? I'm wondering which brain is in "Modern Day Bernard's" head.

[Peng]

Between Game of Thrones and Westworld, HBO is trying to make "ironic Father's Day episodes" a thing huh.

This may be the first time I'm a bit pissed at a Westworld episode, which takes me longer enough than most lol. That's like one of the only few things (the only thing?) that make his storyline interesting!

[Ezee E]

I still feel that she may have not been real, but still shows William has lost grip with reality.

[Rico]

That was brutal.

[Ezee E]

Well that was a heck of a finale.

And now we have a new Professor X and Magneto.


-This explains why Ed Harris' plot in S1 is more or less the same in S2. We all kind of knew it, but I just refused to accept it. It works now.

-I'll definitely rewatch a couple episodes to see if there's any tells in "Dolores-Hale"

-Those 3D Printers are fucking fast.

-Stubbs appears to be a host too.

-Wonder if we'll ever see Eden again.

[Milky Joe]

Man I fucking loved this season. Episode 8 was one of the best standalone episodes I've seen. Incredible finale. Don't get the criticizing. I love the narrative ambition.

[Peng]

Yeah I would get it if many frustrated criticisms at the finale, and during this season, happen more during the one-whole-mystery-box thing of season 1, rather than the more standalones-heavy, world-expanding season 2. Not that I don't see why people would be irritated at this season, since the timeline obfuscation, apart from those dealing with Bernard's scrambled mindset, doesn't feel purposeful like season 1 that much and just gets so tired at this point (and even in that season it wore thin towards the end).

But after being slightly underwhelmed by season 1's finale, I am gratified by how this one can almost serve as a series finale of sort, and also encapsulates the season quite well. Messy, but several heartfelt conclusions and a few satisfying resolutions (kind of great in a meta-way how a delicious villain like Hale can get her comeuppance and then we still have Tessa Thompson onboard). Season 1 may be more immaculately crafted as a whole, but I just like this season having (sometimes shoddily connected) short-story-ish narratives and heart more.

[Ezee E]

Yeah. Absolutely loved the stand-alone approach for each episode, but served the season as well.

Loving the finale more and more, and I'll even rewatch this season for reasons I already shared.

I totally understand if people don't like it because it's hard to follow. My own opinion is that if you read up on S1's traits, it didn't seem that incredibly hard to follow. Plus, I feel like no show has ever attempted something this grandiose. I'm guessing it'll be two years until the next year, but I'm fully in to see the outside world of this show, and have no idea what they'll do to keep the world fresh inside the parks (I guess there's three other parks).

[Dukefrukem]

I'm catching up. Haven't read anything about the finale yet... but WTF was the point of Shogun World? That mini-side quest was super lame for 2 episodes. Was it just eye candy for the audience? If I had known they were not going to accompany them back into the tunnels I would have skipped both of those episodes.

[Ezee E]

I'm catching up. Haven't read anything about the finale yet... but WTF was the point of Shogun World? That mini-side quest was super lame for 2 episodes. Was it just eye candy for the audience? If I had known they were not going to accompany them back into the tunnels I would have skipped both of those episodes.

Certainly fan service and being able to show who Maeve could and couldn't mind control. I enjoyed it, and figure we'll see the other two worlds at some point.

[Dukefrukem]

Still catching up.

On Episode 7- does this episode reveal that Bernard has multiple hosts walking around?

[Skitch]

Still catching up.

On Episode 7- does this episode reveal that Bernard has multiple hosts walking around?

Not quite sure what you mean...can you ask that a different way or explain it more?

[Dukefrukem]

Not quite sure what you mean...can you ask that a different way or explain it more?

The way the episode is structured, we have two stories going on with Bernard.


1 Bernard is inside the Matrix thing.

And we have a second Bernard that was with the security guard dude, and they went into that secret room with many offline Robot Bernards.

The two stories are either taking place at different times? Or there are always multiple Bernards walking around doing stuff?

[Milky Joe]

different time periods, but i don't know if that's been revealed yet at that point.

[Skitch]

Ahhh, I understand precisely why you feel that way and where you are at. Unfortunately, we cannot explain it to you without ruining some incredible writing structure. You will just have to take the ride, and by the end it will all make sense. Jonathon Nolan was one of the writers.

[Dukefrukem]

Ahhh, I understand precisely why you feel that way and where you are at. Unfortunately, we cannot explain it to you without ruining some incredible writing structure. You will just have to take the ride, and by the end it will all make sense. Jonathon Nolan was one of the writers.

Roger that. I'll push through it.

[Ezee E]

Most of Westworld Reddit didn't like the season. I was loving it the entire way, with mixed timelines, different worlds, and... maybe save for the end duke, different characters within other character bodies

[Skitch]

Not for duke yet

I thought the different timelines concept was awesome. Especially since they didn't explain there were doing alt timelines until near the end when you figure out that one of the timelines is unfolding in reverse (literally Momento style). Was I confused through the second act of the season? Sure. But it paid off imo.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh i hate the timeline shit. I'm OK with Old and Young Ed Harris stuff but the show is unnecessarily throwing everyone off. Combine that with the new Matrix system (that exists for whatever fucking reason) and you have 37 different timelines and worlds to keep track off. Why can't it be a straight narrative? It would be just as compelling. I was just waiting for Tessa Thompson to turn out to be a host. Suffers from Arrival-syndrome.


Shit season

[Skitch]

Ahhh! I liked it! They had to do the one timeline in reverse because it was Arnold following the breadcrumbs of the things he had done before his memory was erased. The complexity of constructing a writing project like that blew my mind. Was it confusing through the second act of the season? Sure! But I think they stuck the landing and I understood everything, even why they did it that way.

[Ezee E]

The Q&A session scenes with Teddy, the solo Indian episode, Wu-Tang CREAM, and what I already mentioned contributed to why I really liked it. I think the performances in a second viewing would also make things cooler to see, but I don't know that I'll do that.

[Dukefrukem]

Okay, I agree with the solo Indian episode and Wu-Tang CREAM episode. It fell apart for me after episode 7.