Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea [Archive]

Qrazy

03-21-2008, 05:08 PM

Really? I enjoyed both films quite a bit. Spirited Away is undeniably the better of the two.

*shrug*

I thought they suffered from about the same strengths and weaknesses. Both of the endings are too pat and wrap things up too quickly and tightly and other than that they're both fantastic. Besides that I find it just comes down to which characters and narrative one prefers.

lovejuice

03-22-2008, 07:39 AM

SP is much better than HMC, but i enjoy the latter quite a bit.

Melville

03-22-2008, 02:20 PM

Qrazy

03-23-2008, 03:10 AM

I thought the flashback, where the character runs through the starry field, in Howl's Moving Castle was as good as anything in Spirited Away. And I kind of liked how the story seemed so haphazard; it added to the zany fun.

Yeah, I don't quite understand why people's affections are so much greater for Spirited Away. Can someone who feels this way elucidate what they dislike about Howl's and/or prefer about Spirited Away?

D_Davis

03-24-2008, 01:45 AM

Yeah, I don't quite understand why people's affections are so much greater for Spirited Away. Can someone who feels this way elucidate what they dislike about Howl's and/or prefer about Spirited Away?

I don't like either of these much.

Qrazy

03-24-2008, 02:12 AM

I don't like either of these much.

I can't remember but I'm guessing you liked Paprika. You should watch Paranoia Agent (TV miniseries) if you haven't yet. It's quality Satoshi Kon and heralds many of the ideas and moments from Paprika.

Melville

03-24-2008, 02:27 AM

D_Davis

03-24-2008, 04:32 AM

I can't remember but I'm guessing you liked Paprika. You should watch Paranoia Agent (TV miniseries) if you haven't yet. It's quality Satoshi Kon and heralds many of the ideas and moments from Paprika.

No - I don't like Paprika at all. I am not a fan of Kon's films, but I do want to watch Paranoia Agent. I find the art design used in his films to be incredibly dull and uninspired, and there isn't much about his narratives that engage me on any relevant level. Tokyo Godfathers is the only film of his I've liked. I really don't understand the love he gets from the cinematic crowd. I've been watching Japanese animation for a very long time, and I find his films to be very mediocre when compared to my favorites.

As far as Spirited Away goes, it is okay, but it is far from my favorite Miyazaki. It has some great moments, for sure, but it doesn't do a lot for me on a whole. I like it better than Howl's, but that's not saying a whole lot.

I don't really dislike SA, its too cute, and it looks great, but I greatly prefer almost everything else in the director's filmography.

Qrazy

03-24-2008, 01:01 PM

I've been watching Japanese animation for a very long time, and I find his films to be very mediocre when compared to my favorites.

So have I, but I find he's fairly above average. Although his films certainly find their strength in his use of montage, much more so than in individual shot construction.

I too couldn't stand Perfect Blue but I recognize it's formal merits. Millenium Actress was hit and miss for me, too disjointed and tonally meandering, but again I recognized the potential... His other three works I thought found their marks most admirably. Paprika manages to blend a large number of themes into a cohesive and fascinating whole (voyeurism, technology, parallel worlds, romance, film theory, showmanship, creation, doubt, reality, illusion, etc), Tokyo Godfathers is simply a resonant story told exquisitely well without being cliched, cloying or full of pretense... and Paranoia Agent is cut from the same cloth as those other two.

PS Rintaro's Yona Yona Penguin is in post-production phases.

KK2.0

03-27-2008, 11:15 PM

SirNewt

03-31-2008, 03:06 AM

I think Kon is a bit overrated too, but i greatly enjoyed Tokyo Godfathers. Still haven't watched Paprika but i'm interested.

Howl's is probably my least favorite Miyazaki but that doesn't mean it's a bad film at all, i guess most of the problems i've had with it come from being his first book adaptation, but Ponyo is another original script from him.

And about Ponyo, where's the damn trailer???

Heh, you guys can really argue anime. I enjoy Miyazaki largely because of his literary references. His films, seem to me, to not only invoke tradition Eastern mythology but also Lewis Carroll and Frank Baum.

All the anime I've seen beside Miyazaki, which is about five films, seem like masturbatory wish fulfillment, very pulpy stuff. I know that's a pretty ignorant stance and I am preparing to watch a bit more.

As for the trailer, that's part of why I'm worried we won't see this in 08. There is nothing to be heard concerning this film

KK2.0

04-01-2008, 08:20 PM

Anime is mainstream in Japan, like Hollywood is to america. Besides Ghibli, a few others i regard as high-profile artists like Satoshi Kon, Otomo, and studios like IG, but i won't disregard fun stuff like Bobobo for instance. ^^

SirNewt

09-30-2008, 11:53 PM

"But back in the '80s the filmmaker contented himself with kids' movies that were both simple and sophisticated. Laputa: Castle in the Sky, about a pair of orphans in pursuit of a floating island; My Neighbor Totoro, where two girl meet forest spirits more domesticated than the ones in Princess Mononoke; and Kiki's Delivery Service, with a 13-year-old witch starting her own business. Those movies, which in their Disney DVD versions have diverted many an American child, prove that Miyazaki is more than a giant brain hatching grand schemes. At heart, at 67, he's a kid — to be precise, a little girl."

heeheeheeheeheehee!

Link (http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1838053,00.html)

Ivan Drago

10-01-2008, 03:07 AM

Isn't this movie going to be made with absolutely NO computers?

I've heard that it's only done with pencils and crayon but that may be a stretch.

MacGuffin

10-01-2008, 03:17 AM

Isn't this movie going to be made with absolutely NO computers?

I've heard that it's only done with pencils and crayon but that may be a stretch.

Going to be made? It is done and has been shown in festivals already.

Qrazy

10-01-2008, 06:44 AM

Going to be made? It is done and has been shown in festivals already.

Nice.

Wryan

10-01-2008, 02:42 PM

Looks great. Can't wait for the reputed sequel: Ponyo and Porco on Another Cliff in the Valley of the Wind by the Sea with Friends Kamajji and Billy Crystal.

Llopin

10-12-2008, 05:23 PM

Okay guys, this is yet another classic from Miyazaki. I saw it yesterday and was permanently glued to the screen. It has all key elements; moments of pure magic and emotion, genuine and loveable characters, amazing animation, etc. Mainly due to its formal and thematic (relatively) closeness to Totoro, it might even be my favourite Ghibli flick of the last ten years, so enthralling it is in its simplicity. Okay, Sen to Chihiro might be better, but this kicks ass.

What an absurdly fanboyish post this is. I feel well.

Cult

10-14-2008, 12:29 AM

I almost bought a bootleg of this, but it didn't seem to have English subtitles. His movies always get the deluxe disney dvd treatment anyway.

formal and thematic (relatively) closeness to Totoro
Yay, that's good news.

Qrazy

10-14-2008, 12:41 AM

Yeah it was alright. I dunno I wasn't super feeling the characters or the story. The story just kind of meanders to a rather safe and tedious conclusion. The animation and world building are tops of course though.

KK2.0

10-14-2008, 09:02 PM

Qrazy

10-14-2008, 09:08 PM

Sven

10-14-2008, 10:39 PM

I hate Miyazaki now, he pulled this out from my festival claiming that he makes films for children and now, he only allows his films to be screened on foreign theaters dubbed! for that reason the subtitled copy was pulled and i'll only have the chance to watch it on a noisy child-infested theater probably by the end of next year.

I heartily agree with Miyazaki on this one, if only because it raises the ire of misguided purists. I'd probably do the same. :twisted: This should add some fuel to the discussion I had with Derek regarding which version of an animated film is closest to what was intended. I wouldn't say that Miyazaki is exactly setting a precedent.

KK2.0

10-14-2008, 11:23 PM

but.. i want to watch it NOW!!!

*drops on the floor crying and punching*

Qrazy

10-15-2008, 01:07 AM

but.. i want to watch it NOW!!!

*drops on the floor crying and punching*

So download it, that's what I did.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4325965/Ponyo_On_The_Cliff_By_The_Sea_ (2008)_(Studio_Ghibli)_CAM

KK2.0

10-16-2008, 12:10 AM

So download it, that's what I did.

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4325965/Ponyo_On_The_Cliff_By_The_Sea_ (2008)_(Studio_Ghibli)_CAM

:pritch:

sorry miya

ledfloyd

07-08-2009, 08:28 PM

this is great. a very charming retelling of the little mermaid.

KK2.0

07-10-2009, 01:55 AM

Forgot to post impressions...

Damn good bootleg! God bless the japanese and their high def gear, picture quality was amazing for a cam. :P

this is great. a very charming retelling of the little mermaid.

exactly.

i love when his movies are inspired by classic literature like Laputa (Gulliver's Travels), or Chihiro (Alice, in a lesser extent) and this is another one, he just captures some essential details and transforms into something of his own.

and that theme song is going to be inside your head for weeks!

get ready. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0lk-GEhYdY

*runs*

ugh! too late, i clicked! Poonyo Ponyo...

Ivan Drago

07-16-2009, 02:27 AM

Looks absolutely beautiful.

Random comment: It feels weird seeing the G rating on a green band trailer. Nothing gets a G rating anymore.

Ivan Drago

08-05-2009, 03:54 AM

After looking at the TV spots and watching the trailer again, I'm still trying to figure out how this movie was made with only crayon and pencil. It looks too beautiful for crayon and pencil.

number8

08-05-2009, 04:07 AM

Official English name's just Ponyo, FYI.

Ezee E

08-05-2009, 12:41 PM

Official English name's just Ponyo, FYI.
Yeah, comes out next week actually.

[ETM]

08-05-2009, 12:51 PM

The dubbed voice work in the trailer sounds weak, especially since there are some big names in there.

number8

08-12-2009, 06:03 AM

Umm. So I forgot that I saw this yesterday.

Boner M

08-12-2009, 07:00 AM

Umm. So I forgot that I saw this yesterday.
Basically unremarkable, then?

Rowland

08-12-2009, 08:58 AM

Umm. So I forgot that I saw this yesterday.
How did you respond to Howl's Moving Castle? I remember it being generally dismissed by the critical community, when I found it very nearly brilliant.

Qrazy

08-12-2009, 09:04 AM

How did you respond to Howl's Moving Castle? I remember it being generally dismissed by the critical community, when I found it very nearly brilliant.

I find that Miyazaki's later efforts all have third act problems. Ponyo, Spirited Away and Howl's. But yeah other than the abrupt and slightly unsatisfactory climax I thought Howl's was quite great also.

number8

08-12-2009, 09:27 AM

I liked Howl a lot, but like Ponyo, it doesn't register with me very well afterward. It's a very momentously gleeful film, and Ponyo even more so.

Ezee E

08-12-2009, 11:54 AM

Saw a preview of this at 500 Days of Summer and I thought it looked pretty damn great.

Grouchy

08-12-2009, 07:38 PM

I liked Howl a lot, but like Ponyo, it doesn't register with me very well afterward. It's a very momentously gleeful film, and Ponyo even more so.
Agreed, but I prefer Ponyo because it isn't so damn complicated. Most of what happens in the world of Howl is incredibly deus ex machina. Maybe it helps having read the book before.

KK2.0

08-14-2009, 08:58 PM

Ponyo reminded me of Totoro, perhaps because of that it lacked the wonder of discovering something as unique... but it still has the same innocent joy which is lacking so much in animated films, even Pixar ones, most of them are comedies with adult sensiblities. Not that's anything wrong with that, but Ponyo still had the magic touch in my opinion.

Spinal

08-15-2009, 06:17 AM

This film wavers on the edge of being too knowingly precious. Fortunately the humor and the excellent voice-over cast keep it in the positive column. Really enjoyed Liam Neeson. I saw Blanchett, Damon and Fey in the credits and then ended up not registering which characters they were playing. Which I suppose is a compliment. The environmental angle is kind of familiar, but it's well-articulated here.

eternity

08-15-2009, 07:34 AM

Noah Cyrus turned Ponyo from adorable in the Japanese version to annoying in the English dub. It's still solid though.

Spinal

08-15-2009, 11:14 PM

While I liked this film, I am puzzled when reviewers or others refer to Miyazaki's animation as 'dazzling'. Modestly charming seems more like it.

Watashi

08-15-2009, 11:35 PM

Loved it.

The animation on the ocean is absolutely gorgeous.

balmakboor

08-16-2009, 09:55 PM

My wife and I took our two daughters and they each took a friend. All six of us loved it. There were only three other people in the theater. A little girl who laughed and had a great time all the way through and a teenage girl with her dad -- both obvious Miyazaki nuts based on their comments while exiting.

I agree. This is the most My Neighbor Totoro-like of his films and his most unabashedly family oriented. No complaining here of course. Ponyo and Totoro along with Kiki and Spirited Away are my favorites.

Qrazy

08-16-2009, 10:24 PM

While I liked this film, I am puzzled when reviewers or others refer to Miyazaki's animation as 'dazzling'. Modestly charming seems more like it.

I don't know how you could call the more expansive scenes (opening of the film, the storm, ship graveyard) modestly charming. Dazzling seems quite right to me.

soitgoes...

08-16-2009, 10:33 PM

I don't know how you could call the more expansive scenes (opening of the film, the storm, ship graveyard) modestly charming. Dazzling seems quite right to me.
Yeah, the opening sequence, on its own, is one of the best examples of hand drawn animation I've seen.

Spinal

08-16-2009, 11:25 PM

I don't know how you could call the more expansive scenes (opening of the film, the storm, ship graveyard) modestly charming. Dazzling seems quite right to me.

I don't know. Different tastes, I guess. 'Quaint' seems more appropriate to me than 'dazzling'. I always feel this way about Miyazaki though.

Paprika is something that I would call dazzling.

baby doll

08-17-2009, 02:24 AM

I freakin' loved this movie. Miyazaki's best work in twenty years? It's hard to say after one viewing, but I'm tempted to go there.

megladon8

08-17-2009, 02:29 AM

Didn't you like, just tell others to keep high ratings and high praises in their pants after a first viewing?

Rowland

08-17-2009, 02:33 AM

Didn't you like, just tell others to keep high ratings and high praises in their pants after a first viewing?Must've busted straight through the zipper.

baby doll

08-17-2009, 02:36 AM

Didn't you like, just tell others to keep high ratings and high praises in their pants after a first viewing?Ain't I something? Anyway, if I were on the ten-point scale (which I'm not), I'd probably give it an eight at this point, not a nine or ten. As for this being Miyazaki's best work, well, ever, I can't say definitively right now, but my first impression of the film is that it is, and we'll see how it holds up on second viewing.

baby doll

08-17-2009, 02:37 AM

Must've busted straight through the zipper.I got a rep busting through my zipper.

megladon8

08-17-2009, 03:01 AM

:|

Sounds to me like a case of "it's perfectly fine when I do it, but if anyone else does, I'll chastise them".

baby doll

08-17-2009, 03:05 AM

:|

Sounds to me like a case of "it's perfectly fine when I do it, but if anyone else does, I'll chastise them".Change "them" to "you." I'm just out to get you, Meg. :)

Sven

08-17-2009, 03:18 AM

Didn't you like, just tell others to keep high ratings and high praises in their pants after a first viewing?

Remember, too, what baby doll has to say about children's entertainment:

It's understandable that middle school girls would to go see these films (that's who they're made for), but when you're a middle-aged man, isn't it kind of pathetic? Similarly, I've never read any of the Harry Potter books because I'm an adult. I'd rather read something more challenging, like Franz Kafka or Edith Wharton.

baby doll, my request: could you please define what you mean when you use the word "challenging" in the context of using the lack of being such as a criticism.

Qrazy

08-17-2009, 03:27 AM

I don't know. Different tastes, I guess. 'Quaint' seems more appropriate to me than 'dazzling'. I always feel this way about Miyazaki though.

Paprika is something that I would call dazzling.

I just don't understand how waves almost engulfing a car can be called quaint though... or extending to his other work how giant wolves, boars, and other creatures killing things could be described this way.

And in general.

Miyazaki > Kon

number8

08-17-2009, 09:21 AM

baby doll, my request: could you please define what you mean when you use the word "challenging" in the context of using the lack of being such as a criticism.

"Boring as shit."

baby doll

08-17-2009, 01:19 PM

baby doll, my request: could you please define what you mean when you use the word "challenging" in the context of using the lack of being such as a criticism.Well, in my blog post on the film, I devote some time to talking about how Miyazaki's nuanced view of his characters displays a great deal more maturity than some films allegedly intended for grownups (the three examples I use are No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, and Slumdog Millionaire).

Sven

08-17-2009, 01:54 PM

Well, in my blog post on the film, I devote some time to talking about how Miyazaki's nuanced view of his characters displays a great deal more maturity than some films allegedly intended for grownups (the three examples I use are No Country for Old Men, There Will Be Blood, and Slumdog Millionaire).

"displays a lot more maturity because there are clear-cut good guys and bad guys"

Epic fail, baby doll. I would not call banging out one sentence "devoting some time," plus you are making the mother of all logical leaps (clearly defined protagonist/antagonist = less mature). Also, this:

It's like westerners don't know how to situate Asian filmmakers within their respective national cinemas without a western counterpart

In Asia, Miyazaki is a populist figure roughly equivalent to Walt Disney

baby doll

08-17-2009, 02:21 PM

"displays a lot more maturity because there are clear-cut good guys and bad guys"

Epic fail, baby doll. I would not call banging out one sentence "devoting some time," plus you are making the mother of all logical leaps (clearly defined protagonist/antagonist = less mature). Also, this:I think there's a difference between having a clearly identified protagonist and antagonist (which Ponyo certainly has), and having a character who's a soulless, inhuman killing machine who can appear and disappear at will (as was the case in the Coens' film).

Maybe "devoting some time" was a poor choice of words, but that's nitpicking. You just don't like me, and it doesn't matter what I say. In any event, I'm enjoying this "Daily Show"-esque skewering, where you take something I said in the past and throw it back at me. I'm like the Glen Beck of Match-Cut. That said, in my defense, I simply wanted to get across that he's a populist figure in Asia, but when his films are shown in North America, in my experience at least, there tend to be more adults in the theatre than children. To show how his films are received differently in each continent, it's necessary to find some rough equivalent.

Sven

08-17-2009, 02:32 PM

You just don't like me, and it doesn't matter what I say.

This is not true. Of course I like you. And of course it matters what you say. That's why I focus so much on the things you've said in the past. And I'm sorry that my language is coming across as disdainful. I try to avoid that, but I frequently just rattle off posts without caring much about their construction. You're hardly Glen Beck, though let the jury note that you were the first to compare yourself to him.

But there is a history of apparent contradiction in your posts. And I feel responsible to point things out that I notice (I do this with everyone... you are not a specific target). Daily Show tactics they may be, but there is nothing illogical about the practice.

Also, let's be honest here: Miyazaki is MUCH more akin to Don Bluth than Disney, in style, content, and duty. And I still don't understand the "maturity" element to which you are eluding. How is Chigurh's character and issue of maturity? Mature, mature. Mature. I don't see the connection.

baby doll

08-17-2009, 02:44 PM

Also, let's be honest here: Miyazaki is MUCH more akin to Don Bluth than Disney, in style, content, and duty. And I still don't understand the "maturity" element to which you are eluding. How is Chigurh's character and issue of maturity? Mature, mature. Mature. I don't see the connection.I had never heard of Don Bluth until just now, so that's why he didn't occur to me as a reference point.

As for maturity, requiring clear-cut villains and heroes betrays a simplistic, childlike worldview. In Ponyo, the whole conflict arrises out of Ponyo's father's overly simplistic view of human beings as the polluters. In No Country for Old Men, the Coens go out of their way to dehumanize their villain as much as possible.

Sven

08-17-2009, 02:51 PM

I had never heard of Don Bluth until just now, so that's why he didn't occur to me as a reference point.

You may like him. Check out the first American Tale (and the second one, if you like that one), as well as Secret of NIMH. I also really like Titan AE and Rock-A-Doodle.

As for maturity, requiring clear-cut villains and heroes betrays a simplistic, childlike worldview.

That seems like a dangerous bed to lie in. Surely, as the great humanist Jean Renoir is one of my very favorites, I do tend to admire films that can avoid exercises in pure evil and pure good. But I do not think this speaks of "maturity." It is not "advanced" in any way, but rather following a tradition. I would hardly call Dickens immature, nor would I suggest that mythological tradition is at all immature. It's a different mode, it's more accessible perhaps, but I think it's unsafe to equate simplistic illustration with maturity.

Also, I don't think Chigurh is as dehumanized as all that. The Coen's too-frequently dwell on his physical vulnerability (car crash, removing bullets). His dewy eyes, his imperfect speech.

baby doll

08-17-2009, 03:01 PM

You may like him. Check out the first American Tale (and the second one, if you like that one), as well as Secret of NIMH. I also really like Titan AE and Rock-A-Doodle.Thanks for the recommendation.

That seems like a dangerous bed to lie in. Surely, as the great humanist Jean Renoir is one of my very favorites, I do tend to admire films that can avoid exercises in pure evil and pure good. But I do not think this speaks of "maturity." It is not "advanced" in any way, but rather following a tradition. I would hardly call Dickens immature, nor would I suggest that mythological tradition is at all immature. It's a different mode, it's more accessible perhaps, but I think it's unsafe to equate simplistic illustration with maturity.

Also, I don't think Chigurh is as dehumanized as all that. The Coen's too-frequently dwell on his physical vulnerability (car crash, removing bullets). His dewy eyes, his imperfect speech.Yeah, he gets in a car crash, and then he gets up and walks away. (Why didn't he just teleport out of the car before impact?)

I only know Dickens from the movies, but even the old lady in Great Expectations invites some measure of empathy. She's a bitter old weirdo, but the films (Lean's and Cuarón's) both show what made her that way, and feel sorry for her.

Sven

08-17-2009, 03:09 PM

Yeah, he gets in a car crash, and then he gets up and walks away. (Why didn't he just teleport out of the car before impact?)

It shows that he's susceptible to freak chance, just like every other character in the movie.

I only know Dickens from the movies, but even the old lady in Great Expectations invites some measure of empathy. She's a bitter old weirdo, but the films (Lean's and Cuarón's) both show what made her that way, and feel sorry for her.

Read some Dickens.

balmakboor

08-19-2009, 03:15 AM

I just finished writing my review and this movie is clearly working its way toward being Miyazaki's masterpiece in my mind. Such a perfectly realized vision.

My daughter argues that Nausicaa is still his masterpiece and maybe she's right. I just know that I find the deceptive, fairytale-like simplicity of this and Totoro to be the most satisfying.

Qrazy

08-19-2009, 03:18 AM

Princess Mononoke and Laputa are his pinnacle imo.

balmakboor

08-19-2009, 03:35 AM

Princess Mononoke and Laputa are his pinnacle imo.

I can't remember. Is Laputa the same as Castle in the Sky? If so, then my daughter probably agrees with you. She watches Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke, and Castle in the Sky over and over.

number8

08-19-2009, 03:37 AM

Hahaha! Look! I'm in the background!

http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/2009/08/14/lasseter_talks_miyazaki_and_po nyo/

BuffaloWilder

08-19-2009, 03:39 AM

Thanks for the recommendation.

Yeah, he gets in a car crash, and then he gets up and walks away. (Why didn't he just teleport out of the car before impact?)

He was clearly wounded, and pretty terribly - if anything, I'm surprised you're not making a hassle about how this scene undercuts his role in the story as an almost mythic force of nature.

Qrazy

08-19-2009, 06:23 PM

I can't remember. Is Laputa the same as Castle in the Sky? If so, then my daughter probably agrees with you. She watches Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke, and Castle in the Sky over and over.

Yep, same.

Grouchy

08-20-2009, 12:42 AM

I can't remember. Is Laputa the same as Castle in the Sky? If so, then my daughter probably agrees with you. She watches Nausicaa, Princess Mononoke, and Castle in the Sky over and over.
Now that's some early education. Way to go.

balmakboor

08-20-2009, 01:01 PM

I posted my review at BlogCritics the other day and I've gotten record feedback -- a whole four comments. Three of them were from Miyazaki fans, but this one caught me by surprise:

"This movie was so UnDisneylike. I was mortified by it. The mother is portrayed as an out of control woman who in one scene, drinks until she passes out. She leaves the 5 year old child home alone and tells him, "he is the man of the house"

"The parents fight via morse code. The dominate male character looks like a cross dresser with purple eyeshadow.The whole thing was weird and distrubing!!!! DO not go to this movie, you will be disappointed."

I told my wife about it and she said, "If she thinks Ponyo was weird and disturbing, she should stay far away from the stuff you usually watch."

Sxottlan

08-22-2009, 08:50 AM

This was cute; better than his previous two films. I think I found Ponyo the most adorable as a little sea creature (goldfish? In what universe did she look like a goldfish?) rather than as a human.

For some reason, the shot of the two mothers (one supernatural) talking in the senior center garden elicited a loud laugh from me in the theater. I don't know why exactly.

Strange that the film essentially ended on a politically arranged union between two children. Don't screw it up kid or else we all pay for it.

In the Miyazaki filmography, I still count Castle in the Sky and Naussica as my favorites.

Boner M

09-07-2009, 01:44 PM

Liked this a lot, although as I find with most of his films there were a few flights of fancy where I just kinda zoned out and grooved on the cute-spectacle. Also, was anyone else kinda unnerved by the film's weird endorsement of reckless driving?

Gabe L

09-07-2009, 11:04 PM

As an unabashed Miyazaki fanboy, I adored every second of it. I saw it first on a horrible Japanese bootleg, and the beauty of the film shone through anyway.

The way the world and entire film is viewed through children's eyes is beautiful. There's a purity in everyone's interactions with each other that rings extremely true to me -- not just between Ponyo and Sosuke (though their relationship is just wonderful), but between the mother and both of them, the old women at the home, who early on humor Sosuke for his fanciful "love affair" with a goldfish...it's warmth and simple honesty is so refreshing, and it's mirrored by the no-frills, poetic hand-drawn animation.

I think the steamboat sequence is as lovely as almost anything he's done, and Ponyo running on the waves in pure, unabashed love is magical. The environmental messages that have become a staple of his work are on full display here; loved the sea sweeping sequences early on.

It's not his best work (I still prefer Spirited Away, which is probably my favorite movie of all-time, Princess Mononoke, and Nausicaa), but it's currently sitting pretty at #2 for the year, and I can't wait to own it.

Gabe L

09-07-2009, 11:06 PM

Also, I'll never refer to it as Ponyo on sheer principle. The dumbing down of the title is beyond ridiculous and completely unnecessary.

Sycophant

09-07-2009, 11:12 PM

Also, I'll never refer to it as Ponyo on sheer principle. The dumbing down of the title is beyond ridiculous and completely unnecessary.

I'm not sure I understand how that's dumbing down, really. It's simplification. But while Ponyo on the Cliff by the Sea is kinda lyrical, it doesn't strike me as a really necessary or highbrow thing.

Gabe L

09-08-2009, 09:57 AM

I do really like the lyrical nature of the title, but that's not the point. What's achieved by shortening it other than making it "simpler" for marketing purposes, etc? All it does is change the title of a movie from what Miyazaki intended to the name of the title character.

It's not a huge deal or anything; I personally simply see no point to it and prefer using the original as Miyazaki intended.

B-side

09-08-2009, 10:05 AM

Also, was anyone else kinda unnerved by the film's weird endorsement of reckless driving?

...

Please tell me you don't buy into this nonsense.

Boner M

09-08-2009, 11:12 AM

...

Please tell me you don't buy into this nonsense.
Buy into what? I'm not suggesting such actions need to follow with the moral economy of a horrible car crash, but did the scene where Lisa swerves after taking a lick of Frankie's ice cream have to be scored to such jaunty, upbeat music? I remain unnerved.

Watashi

09-08-2009, 01:35 PM

I think Miyazaki is just saying that women shouldn't drive. Period.

Sycophant

09-08-2009, 02:32 PM

I think Miyazaki is just saying that women shouldn't drive. Period.

This is actually kind of how it read. And it doesn't sit well with me.

Gabe L

09-08-2009, 02:35 PM

This is actually kind of how it read. And it doesn't sit well with me.

Really? I mean, come on - Miyazaki is all about strong women & heroines in his work. Are you really suggesting a sexist streak?

Re: the "reckless" driving - I thought it was much more of a display of her determination to do what was needed for her family (Sosuke) and her "extended" family (the women at the old age home); if she had to fly through a monsoon to get there, she was going to help. Sure, if you interpret it literally, blazing through those conditions isn't a smart move...neither is trying to run on the water :)

Sycophant

09-08-2009, 02:56 PM

In truth, it was more the general reckless and dangerous parenting than necessarily the driving that made me feel weird. As depicted in the film, the mother misses getting rammed into by a boat by mere instants, determined to get through the worst storm ever up a narrow and windy, cliff-hugging road, nearly being caught by the waves. When the dockworkers were like "go back, it's not safe," it seemed to me that was the case. Maybe I should've kicked up my suspension of disbelief there, but I didn't. Once she gets home she abandons the kids there, when they could've just as easily stayed/turned back to the retirement home and avoided the worst of the storm.

The film really gave me no reason not to "interpret" these things "literally," especially since the film raises my concerns in the first instance and then dismisses them. It's reckless behavior. Otherwise, the mother's depicted quite sympathetically. They made for some thrilling, beautiful sequences, but the confounding motivation of the characters distanced me from them.

number8

09-08-2009, 06:37 PM

The film really gave me no reason not to "interpret" these things "literally,"

It doesn't need to. Exaggeration is a mainstay of animation.

Qrazy

09-08-2009, 07:40 PM

I did view it as reckless but I viewed that recklessness as predominantly a character flaw, an extension of the mother's general struggle as an (in effect) only parent. Sosuke does indeed have a caring father but his father is never around. I think the film purposely makes clear how reckless the driving is but I don't think it necessarily endorses such driving. I find the film's depiction of the contemporary family in general quite interesting. The single parent dynamic seen in Sosuke's family is mirrored in Ponyo's family. But in the case of Ponyo's family it's the mother who's never around. Ponyo views her father (the magician) as a limiting force in her life but really he's just being somewhat over-protective, he doesn't have any malevolent intentions. Furthermore, both of these single parents have to balance their parenting with their day to day life and their overall beliefs and attitudes.

For instance Ponyo's father has a certain perspective about human beings/pollution and the way Ponyo should be 'brought up'. Ponyo also runs away while the magician is at work (fish/bubble thing) while Sosuke's mom drives like a maniac because she's trying to balance work with being a mom (she's always in a hurry). When she's late she rushes to work or later on she wants to get Sosuke home. In her mind this is safety but she's actually putting Sosuke in danger by virtue of her recklessness. I feel the film is critical but not condemning of the balancing act of both of these parents. Ultimately although both parents don't know how to balance everything in their lives effortlessly, by the film's end their devotion, love and best wishes for their children is made clear.

Sycophant

09-08-2009, 08:51 PM

Thanks, Qrazy. Good response. I think I can pretty much buy that.

transmogrifier

09-09-2009, 09:28 AM

A lot of people wonder why there aren't more well-rounded, conflicted female protagonists in movies. It's probably because as soon as you present a girl or woman with a character flaw, you open yourself up for accusations of sexism. God forbid you should depict the woman as unsympathetic, then your flirting with being a misogynist.

I haven't seen the movie, just something I thought about while reading the posts above.

lovejuice

09-10-2009, 04:12 PM

i love the first two third. as someone living in a seaside town for six years, Miyazaki did a wonderful job displaying the magic of such place.

the last third...i'm not so sure. it's too much spirited away by the sea, which is not a bad thing. however the ending is too anti-climatic for me. as much as i know it's intensional and understand why it has to be this way, it'll probably take some time before i fully accept it.

Sycophant

09-10-2009, 04:15 PM

I really do want to see this in Japanese some time. I have a feeling I might like it better, which might just make me a weeaboo, but I didn't care for some of the performances here. Or maybe just a second viewing is what's in order. It's not sticking with me the way Miyazaki's films usually do.

baby doll

09-12-2009, 04:40 PM

Morris Schæffer

02-16-2010, 07:38 PM

I just don't understand how waves almost engulfing a car can be called quaint though... or extending to his other work how giant wolves, boars, and other creatures killing things could be described this way.

I think the specifics of the scene are rather spectacular, looking like something Roland Emmerich might cook up if he were into animation and Japanese, but even these scenes of high disaster look rather painterly. You couldn't mistake this watery action for the CGI splendour of Finding Nemo. Both are rather memorable in the visuals department though.

I liked the movie enough, was utterly enchanted by the friendship of the little boy and the little fish, but found some of the movie, such as the story, not quite as fully realized and rich as Spirited Away. I don't have more substantial things to say right now.

KK2.0

02-19-2010, 06:34 PM

The flood scene is some spectacular hand drawn animation, and i love how the waves are shaped like gigantic fish and how Ponyo runs gleefully on top of it.

About the mother reckless driving, it always striked me as a funny way to portrait her immaturity, not much else. One of my favorite "small scenes", is the one she's mad at her husband for not coming to dinner, her interaction with the boy, how she acts as a spoiled kid and Sasuke ends up taking care of situation. I love all the subtle animations, it's amazing in it's complexity but it also feels so simple.

Baby Doll was actually right when it compared Miyazaki to Disney, in Japan at least, his films are blockbusters.