The Punisher (Season 1)

[Dukefrukem]

Let's hope we get a better Frank than what we got in Daredevil S2.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBHHq5HUMAAVXU9.jpg:large

[Ezee E]

Could Punisher be the hardest character to adapt to screen?

[Skitch]

Galactus says no.

[Ezee E]

Galactus says no.

True. That costume will never film well.

[Dukefrukem]

Premiering in November

[Acapelli]

Could Punisher be the hardest character to adapt to screen?
punisher war zone rules

also his character was one of the better things about s2 of daredevil (at least i thought so)

[Skitch]

punisher war zone rules


Hell yes it does.

[Dukefrukem]

War zone the comic does rule. The movie is shit.

[TGM]

Add my name to the shortlist of those who also (mostly) dug Punisher War Zone. ;)

[Thirdmango]

I love the movie.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFfBd-Oyhug

[Dukefrukem]

Okay then.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIY6zFL95hE

[number8]

That costume is kinda bad. Looks like a sweater from H&M's Metal Fashion line.

[Skitch]

Trailer is good though.

[Grouchy]

Heh, they really overdid it with Castle playing the guitar sadly. That's just completely out of character.

[Dukefrukem]

What does Netflix have up their sleeve by not announcing the release date when we are less than two months away? (supposedly)

[Skitch]

Heh, they really overdid it with Castle playing the guitar sadly. That's just completely out of character.

Really? I assumed those parts were pre-family killed, so didn't seem unusual.

[Grouchy]

Really? I assumed those parts were pre-family killed, so didn't seem unusual.
It might be that my version of the character is the one written by Garth Ennis where he was already a super-focused killing machine before they slaughtered his family, during his Vietnam tours - he even got a taste of violence during his childhood on the flashback series The Tyger. The thought of that Frank Castle being somewhat musically inclined is just goofy to me.

[Skitch]

Sure, that makes sense. I don't really know Punisher books extensively, just the general origin.

Have we discussed before on MC that Punisher isn't a hero? I feel we've had that argument at some point in time.

[Dukefrukem]

Delayed due to the Vegas incident. Release date was likely to be announced during NYCC.

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[number8]

Didn't stop them from announcing this today, though:

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[Dukefrukem]

November 17

[Dukefrukem]

The Punisher is riveting, politically adventurous entertainment, willing to get mired in the complexity of a nation that has come to define itself through the incalculable damage and untold amounts of killings done in the name of peace. When the need to set-up, reiterate, or preempt the plot becomes its more prominent concern, however, it’s emblematic of everything wrong with comic-book adaptations, on TV or elsewhere.

SOURCE: Collider


Netflix released all 13 episodes to critics, and despite strong performances from Bernthal, Walcott and Moss-Bachrach (Micro), it was a slog to reach the end. I found myself thinking back to Person of Interest, which did a better job with similar material. Its main characters were an ex-CIA vigilante and his hacker partner, battling shadowy enemies in the military-industrial complex. Even in the framework of a formulaic CBS crime show, it was more satisfying than Marvel’s attempt at serious long-form drama.

SOURCE: The Daily Dot


The Punisher is the show Marvel Television needed. It’s the show that proves there might just be hope yet for the studio’s small screen ambitions. And yes, if we’re judging purely on the act of transforming into a character, Bernthal absolutely deserves an Emmy nomination for this one. His performance has been far elevated from the days of Daredevil.

SOURCE: Forbes


For a show which seemed, given the timing of its launch, to be so controversial, its most controversial element is its lack of controversy. Frank Castle does some bad things, but nothing as bad as what happens in America on a regular basis. As a narrative about veterans trying to find their place in the world, “The Punisher” has something to say. But it could have been so much shorter, and its placement in the Marvel universe feels tangential at best.

SOURCE: Indie Wire


The Punisher’s first episode is sleepy and repetitive; nothing in it is anything we didn’t see in the second season of Daredevil. Along those same lines, The fifth and sixth episodes already drag more than the others, an indication of the usual mid-season Netflix slump. But at least Punisher’s repetitive beginning is part of the first narratively necessary step in the show’s plot: moving the goalpost on Frank’s revenge.

SOURCE: Polygon


It’s a conundrum: The Punisher is most effective when its title character is indiscriminately slaughtering his foes, but that’s also when it most consistently evokes the kinds of real-life horrors that pushed the premiere back once, and could have kept pushing it back indefinitely. There may hopefully be a time when Frank’s actions don’t instantly recall horrors from our world, but that version of his story will still need to be told much more compellingly than this.

SOURCE: Uproxx


I almost want to declare the existence of this “Punisher” show a miracle. I don’t know, really, what I was expecting from it, because from the moment it was announced it didn’t really feel like it fit with the other Marvel shows on Netflix. And aside from a few appearances by Karen Page (Deborah Ann Woll) and a couple cameos by very minor characters from other shows, it really does just go its own way. And thank the Lord for that, because I like watching legitimately good TV shows. And “The Punisher,” somehow, is legitimately good.

SOURCE: The Wrap


In all, “The Punisher” is not just satisfying but surprising — an interpretation of Netflix and Marvel’s tried-and-true partnership that offers more depth and challenges to the audience than even the gritty world of “Marvel’s Jessica Jones.” Free from superpowers and superheroes, the Marvel universe is more forgiving — and more interesting. Of course, the slightly cartoony Marvel Cinematic Universe is still a world where people named Carson Wolf show up and act as if they are not obviously villains. But “The Punisher’s” place in it is a welcome morass of thorny questions and unresolvable answers. At least in this part of the television landscape, there is room for another antihero.

SOURCE: Variety



Marvel’s The Punisher did an excellent job reintroducing us to an iconic character, with the help of a brilliant performance from Jon Bernthal. While some of the supporting cast members are less memorable, there is still plenty of time for more character development down the road.

SOURCE: IGN

At the end of the day, for hardcore fans of the character, The Punisher is bound to offer a better experience than the three failed big screen adaptations. But those looking for more escapism in their superhero storytelling might be better off revisiting the other equally dark but less dour Marvel/Netflix shows.

SOURCE: We Got This Covered


Frank begins the 13-episode run alone and assuming a new identity; but it’s when he starts to open up that the man behind the scope begins to emerge. The show may not be to everyone’s tastes – fans may expect something more visceral, despite the fair amount of gore - I just sincerely hope people are patient with it and let the show develop, despite its odd missteps. It’s left me wanting more of The Punisher before even any of The Defenders return – and I’m eager to see what Frank does next.

SOURCE: Total Film

[number8]

I didn't like this very much.

[number8]

Also this might be the first Marvel show to completely disregard MCU events.

It's a show specifically about spies and espionage but pretends like SHIELD doesn't exist. Even the other Netflix shows dropped references to "the incident," but the characters talk and act like the biggest thing to have happened in NYC was 9/11. If they didn't shoehorn Karen Page in it for an episode, I might have thought that this is supposed to be a standalone series.

[Dukefrukem]

I watched the first episode last night. And I really liked it. But that was just 1 episode. I am hoping for a cool and calculated Frank Castle for the entire season.

[number8]

He's a much friendlier, jokier, and emotional Frank than any of the other Punisher portrayals that came before. I don't mind it at all, it gives him a more definable personality, but I'm sure plenty of fans do. It is a bit weird watching The Punisher screaming when he's shooting and psyching himself up first before going into battle, and just generally being so talky.

I think the show wants to portray him more as an overwhelmed underdog than a killing machine.

[Irish]

I watched the first episode last night. And I really liked it. But that was just 1 episode. I am hoping for a cool and calculated Frank Castle for the entire season.

I enjoyed the first episode. It was a complete story with some minor stakes and a nice re-introduction to the character.

But I tapped out around the third or fourth episode because the plot immediately dived into some bullshit about layered conspiracies and who really killed Frank's family. I couldn't be more tired of storylines like this. It's two bit storytelling and reminiscent of a dozen bad 90s action movies.

[number8]

the plot immediately dived into some bullshit about layered conspiracies and who really killed Frank's family. I couldn't be more tired of storylines like this. It's two bit storytelling and reminiscent of a dozen bad 90s action movies.

That's the thing that made it so obvious that this show was unplanned and was put together hastily because of Bernthal's breakout popularity as the character. They already told Frank's origin story and gave him a resolution it in Daredevil S2, but they had to add a bunch of layers to the doublecross just so they can retell the same origin without negating the one they've told. It's not just cliched, it's a really lazy retread. The most interesting parts of the show are the ones that have nothing to do with it (the Madani character, and the PTSD veteran, Micro's family, and the kid in the completed story in the first ep you mentioned).

The first ep had me hoping it could be a crime version of Twilight Zone where you follow a sympathetic criminal story and at the end the "twist" is that they all run into Frank somehow. Alas.

[Irish]

That's the thing that made it so obvious that this show was unplanned and was put together hastily because of Bernthal's breakout popularity as the character. They already told Frank's origin story and gave him a resolution it in Daredevil S2, but they had to add a bunch of layers to the doublecross just so they can retell the same origin without negating the one they've told. It's not just cliched, it's a really lazy retread. The most interesting parts of the show are the ones that have nothing to do with it (the Madani character, and the PTSD veteran, Micro's family, and the kid in the completed story in the first ep you mentioned).

YES! Exactly! Holy shit, I thought that was so weird.

I couldn't understand---or really involve myself with---their retelling of the origin story. It felt weird that this guy has his own dedicated show now but with a key part of his background is resolved.

Also, gotta mention from the first episode:

I particularly liked the dude who's running the veteran's support group, and how Frank initially hung around outside and listened in but didn't walk into the room. That spoke volumes to me about who the character was and where his head was at and it didn't require outsize violence or base melodramatics.

[Skitch]

I'm on ep4 or 5. So far its interesting, but not freaking out about it.

[MadMan]

I flat out loved this, and I am not much of a Punisher fan. Some of the material is ground already covered but the sharp cast and everything else makes up for that. And yes Curtis is awesome.

[number8]

Not sure why but I finished this, but I did. So here are some thoughts about it overall:

- It actually ends up justifying the 13 episode length better than some of the recent outputs of this mini-franchise. The main plot is really unengaging as Irish and I already noted, but it's good that it concocts these side missions that feel like a part of Frank's world for whenever the main story needs a pause. It's closer to classic television in that way. It doesn't feel like a thin story drawn out for no reason like Iron Fist, a story that lingered beyond its proper end point like Luke Cage, nor a haphazard mix of competing stories that don't work together like DD S2 (there's nothing like that dumb "and now that Frank Castle's urban thriller story wrapped up, he can help with fighting ninjas" structuring). By the end, it feels like they made a genuine effort to tie things together.

- But the themes, oy. This show really, really, really wants to be political and timely, which I appreciate because I think far and way the best things about Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones were their (successful, IMO) attempt to tackle a very relevant social issue through its own unique superhero lens, but unlike those two seasons, this failed to commit to saying what it is that it actually wants to say. It spends so much of its screen time to conversations about gun control, the disenfranchisement of white people, the plight of the abandoned veterans, but it seems to confuse nuance with incoherence. It never acknowledges why a guy who's radicalized by a fraud would then become more radicalized, or explains Karen Page's characterization as someone who positions herself to be an anti-gun control pundit while insisting that she completely disagrees with the terrorist's belief of the second amendment. Not that I don' think people can't have multitudes when it comes to complex issues, but the show just... leaves it there, and instead makes up the easy strawman of anti-gun people being hypocrites when their life's in danger. It brings these things up that would be so fucking interesting to actually challenge in a show about "a good guy with a gun," but treats them like they're ranch dressing rather than the meal. Why even bother? Textbook case of writers wanting to be relevant but the studio is afraid of pissing off either side of the debate?

- I like that it goes all in on making Frank look like a psychopath. The weirdness of Bernthal portraying him as a more emotional guy clicks for me as I realized that it wants Frank to come across more Patrick Bateman than Terminator. There's a terrific meta-commentary moment where we see Frank let loose on a bad guy and it's designed to be a fan service satisfying moment, but then it goes on a little too long and becomes genuinely disturbing with the violence, and suddenly it cuts to another bad guy watching him going "Damn, Frank, I love to watch you work" like he's aroused and I was like, Shit that's us. We're that horny. Haha, classic.

- The Punisher has the most heartwarming premature ejaculation scene I've ever seen.

[number8]

I forgot to mention: the very last scene is a really, really, really good.

It succinctly says without saying it that Frank's kind of glad that his family got killed because it gave him another war, so he doesn't need to be another aimless haunted veteran who doesn't know what to do. But now that his war against his family's killers is over, he really doesn't know where to go next. It feels like an ending that you could interpret as the closing chapter of a character who then turns his back on violence forever, or it could be the beginning of a new bigger crusade.

[Irish]

So is that a recommendation? Because it sounds like a recommendation!

[Skitch]

I also enjoyed this. I was worried they would over-glorify "good guy kills bad guys" but they did a good job presenting it as a topic to be questioned.

Its also gross. Its gory. Sometimes in a fun movie way and sometimes in a disturbing make-me-turn-my-head-away way.

[number8]

So is that a recommendation? Because it sounds like a recommendation!

The Punisher has the most heartwarming premature ejaculation scene I've ever seen.

[Grouchy]

I'm on Episode 9 and this show is surprisingly great!

More when I'm done.

[Dukefrukem]

Arya, rank it with the other Marvel shows please.

[number8]

I dunno, Jessica Jones > Daredevil Season 1 > Varying degrees of this, Luke Cage, and Defenders > Daredevil Season 2 > Iron Fist

[Grouchy]

Ok, finished this show. I don't think it's absolutely perfect but it stands up there with Jessica Jones as the most engaging stuff to come out of the Netflix MCU.

It's not the comic book Punisher I'm used to - like 8 says, this one has a shitload more feelings and communicates them far more often - but it works for the show. The mental gymnastics I did was to figure out that this is who Castle was at the beginning and he eventually became the killing machine. I also agree with 8 that the show doesn't fully commit to its own themes, but, eh - what's worse? That or being completely shallow in the first place? Loved the way they handled Micro, his scenes with Castle have a lot more chemistry than I expected.

[Dukefrukem]

I have some nitpicks but I'm definitely enjoying this more than the other Netflix series.

Hey, I also started watching Agents of Shield again.

Anyway, just came in to say I'm almost done and it's been renewed for Season 2.

[MadMan]

I forgot to mention: the very last scene is a really, really, really good.

It succinctly says without saying it that Frank's kind of glad that his family got killed because it gave him another war, so he doesn't need to be another aimless haunted veteran who doesn't know what to do. But now that his war against his family's killers is over, he really doesn't know where to go next. It feels like an ending that you could interpret as the closing chapter of a character who then turns his back on violence forever, or it could be the beginning of a new bigger crusade.

I fully agree with this.

More than likely the mob comes after him. Jigsaw/Billy probably will be in Season 3, if it happens.

[Dukefrukem]

Damn, that second to last episode was a doozy.

[Dukefrukem]

Yup. Loved this. Can't wait for season 2.

[Dukefrukem]

I fully agree with this.

More than likely the mob comes after him. Jigsaw/Billy probably will be in Season 3, if it happens.

And then Punisher teams up with Spider-Man to foil him??

[Morris Schæffer]

Wasn't sure in the beginning, but then I started to warm to its leisurely pace, and started to really get engaged with where it was going. And boy, it really cuts loose in the last two episodes. I fucking loved it, especially when I realized at the very end, rather quickly I might add, what they were doing with the Russo character. Like fuck!!!!

Right now, I'm thinking "I hope this gets more than 2 seasons". Good to read that this is being appreciated by some of you as well!

[MadMan]

And then Punisher teams up with Spider-Man to foil him??

That would be cool. Unlikely to happen, but cool. Guess there won't be a Season 3, though...