Alien: Covenant (Ridley Scott)

[transmogrifier]

http://www.scified.com/u/IMG_20170323_0950491.jpg

[transmogrifier]

Well...

Hard to genuinely rate, given that it is so significantly better than Prometheus as an actual film, while at the same time it basically wipes away everything that was left unanswered by that film in favor of becoming a much more generic slasher film with a non-xenomorph villain orchestrating events and thus creating a layer of depth the film desperately needs. Seriously, if you are looking for more information about the Engineers, this is not a film made for you.

Character work outside of Fassbender is perfunctory at best (though this is another of James Franco's weird little japes in a career full of them) and most of the deaths are either flatly presented or flat out exploitative; the high point by far is the first run in with the alien life form, where things go to shit quickly and people panic and everything jolts and moves and has a sense of urgency. But that only lasts a little while before it goes back to the template of individuals being picked off one-by-one and it doesn't really do that very well.

Still... it does a solid job of clean up after the bizarre ineptness of Prometheus' plotting and even starts to explain the peculiarity of the xeonmorph's life cycle, though your reaction to this will depend on your tolerance for the convenience of it all. So...put me down as undecided for now.

[Henry Gale]

I am a little more decided, and though I similarly still have a lot to mull over with it, I think I really liked all of the things about it swirling in my head. It's such an odd movie in the sense that it is such a direct sequel to Prometheus in so many ways, and yet a completely irresponsible one at the same time. We are totally at the will of David, his motiviations, and what he wants out of the world he has in front of him and even as someone who is a big fan of Prometheus despite all its (the thing just sings as it goes that it's not until after it finishes do I consider its faults) and invested in Shaw, David and their search for the Engineers and their history and goals of creation, I was absolutely fine and stunned by how it chose to carry on with those threads.

It's such a strange and mischievously dark film for a big movie like this, and that dark undercurrent to it will likely turn many off of it outright, but I honestly think if you are in the mood for just the sort of giddily evil cocoction Scott has cooked up, it's something worth relishing.

For the record I'd now say watch the "Prometheus Prologue" they released after you see the movie.

[Peng]

I didn't exactly dislike it, but a bit shocked by overall positive receptions from many I follow, actually. And I say this as a Prometheus/Ridley Scott apologist

In short, love the lore, love the philosophizing, ADORE the double Fassbenders, but Scott's utter disregard for the new crew's intelligence/competency or empathy in their survival is a total drag. Good things they're likeable actors (weird cast for a blockbuster but pretty effective) in generally likeable character roles.

I know Prometheus gets a lot of flak, but for methat film seduces you in first, teasing out mysteries and visual elegance regularly, and then steadily ramps up people's idiocy or plot's improbabilities more and more later on, and by then I am too hooked into its frenzied storytelling so that they don't bother me as much.

In contrast to Covenenant, in which Scott needlessly saddles the new crew with a much bigger, more important mission right off the bat, so every 'touchy-feely-gonna-step-wildly-everywhere' action here feels so much more magnified than that film. And instead of ramping up to ease us into horror tropes, Scott leads off the first one or two crucial horrific incidents as being a direct result of the crew's biggest idiotic/incompetent actions. (The non-spoiler one, which has me screaming internally a bit just within the first 30 minutes, is "YOU'RE ALL SCIENTISTS WHY DOESN'T ANYONE WEAR ANY PROECTIVE SUIT HERE???"). I am very, very less prone to irritation with character behaviors, especially when it comes to horror films, than most people, and I still couldn't believe my eyes a bit with this one.

To reiterate though, the mythology and Michael Fassbender are all golden stuff, and Ridley Scott still has a great eye and directs the hell out of this (even if this is a more down-and-dirty horror film without Prometheus' visual elegance). Too bad there needs to be humans that the director couldn't be less interested in creating/writing about around though.

[TGM]

Sure, there were some issues with the characters only getting into trouble because they're idiots (no protective gear while roaming about on the planet also struck me as a particularly odd choice), similar to Prometheus. Yet I guess I didn't find it to be nearly as bothersome here. Probably because the rest of the surrounding movie is so much significantly better than that one. Not to mention there's so much more Fassbender, which is always a good thing (seriously, more movies could do with a little Fassbender on Fassbender action ;) ).

For real though, the Fassbender scenes were just magical, and worth the price of admission alone. I could watch those two philosophizing with one another for hours.

I also really dug that they decided to throw in a handful of nods to Alien 3 of all things. Wouldn't expect that honestly, but given the much more grim nature of this one, it seems fitting.

[Dukefrukem]

LOVED this. Loved everything about it. Fixes everything Damon Lindelof. More tomorrow.

[Ezee E]

This is what we wanted from Prometheus, all said and done. Good enough, even with some dumb things throughout.

Highlight of the movie, and it's a standout for the Alien series, is the sense of terror when things start HAPPENING. Filled with energy, terror, unpredictable, and the motivations feel right. There's no scientists playing friendly with attack-ready cobras.

With that said, there's absolutely no protocols with this group, and that leads to some forced motivations that don't seem realistic at all. People walking off on their own, entering risky atmospheres, and no PPE whatsoever. Thankfully, there's a very interesting dynamic between the "Synthetics" that offsets the dull crew. McBride is actually the best character of the bunch... The rest LOOK interesting, and I wanted to know more, but you never really get a chance.

The end genuinely feels claustrophobic and scary again, especially as the chase goes on. The chase has a predictable and repeated ending, which is unfortunate. I feel like the twist would've been suited there instead of how it finally played out.

GOOD enough. I'll definitely watch various pieces again.

[Skitch]

According to the voting options, this movie is an epic win for me. :D

[Dukefrukem]

Spoilers below that I'm not spoil tagging.

There's something about Scott's eye for sci-fi that fits so well with this universe. I don't know if he has consultants up the ass, designing this world for him and he just needs to interpret the script, but both Prometheus and Alien Covenant are beautiful beautiful films.

It's definitely when things start happening, is where the tension and terror are it's best. I would have liked more dumbfounding exclamations, such as when the crew sees the Engineer's ship for the first time. "What the fuck is that?"- This line should have been said 30 times. Upon seeing the white aliens, upon seeing the Engineer's city, upon seeing David's taxodermy home, upon seeing the Xenomorph for the first time... but most of the crew was very ho-hum about what they were seeing.

Again, I'm giving the "forced motivations" a pass, just like I did in Prometheus. I don't think there was anything particularity dumb about the decision making, not even close to the same level as petting a Cobra Water Snake. Slipping on blood in the floor is just a flat out mistake by the character. Shooting an O2 tank in a panic because you just saw a monster come out of your friend's spine is just pure terror. Going to clean yourself up when you have been promised by a synthetic you trust that it is perfectly safe, is fine. Looking into a facehugger egg because, again, you're promised it was "perfectly safe", fine.

I was really hoping Katherine Waterston was going to be the next Ripley. The end of this movie seems to suggest otherwise. I thought the same for Shaw.

One of the more striking images for me, was the flashback to David landing on the alien planet. That was quite a disturbing move from the synthetic and it paints a wonderful character arch for David between the two movies. I understand the problem with that though from a stand alone perspective. But I'm really looking forward to watching these movies back to back.

Finally, I would have loved a resolution to the film that didn't result in one we have already seen twice before. And there's still one giant question that needs to be answered with these movies. And that's how these genetically engineered eggs got on the Engineer's ship and crash landed on LV-426?

[Dukefrukem]

Ok. Some negatives: The sense of time. What happened here?

First there's a hurricane that we are told to believe could last days, weeks or months. And in the very next scene shot outside between David and Walter, it's beautiful out? This destroys the tension created up in orbit where the crew is trying to decide how low to bring the ship over the said hurricane.

Also, the time it takes for the facehugger to implant and grow inside Oram- was no one looking for the captain and David for several hours?

[Ezee E]

Also, the time it takes for the facehugger to implant and grow inside Oram- was no one looking for the captain and David for several hours?

This.


It was practically minutes for the Captain. And the other guy after, took several hours.

You nailed many of the weaknesses. As you mentioned, everything in the ship, as far as the slipping and shooting was fine with me though. The slipping looked very painful actually, and was unexpected to me.

[Dukefrukem]

I re-watched Prometheus tonight. And there's some notes I'd like to mention in here that may improve not just Prometheus for some, but Alien Covenant as well.

First, it was always assumed that the xenomorphs differed physically depending on the host. This has been proved in four movies now. Alien 3, Resurrection, Prometheus and Covenant. In Covenant, it was now confirmed by David that the method the pathogens are ingested also change the mutation. This was shown three times in Covenant. One through inhaling the spores. One through the spores entering the blood stream through the ear orphus. And one through the traditional face hugger. We saw some weird "white" aliens in Covenant. These are probably the aliens that developed from the indigenous wildlife on the planet and likely not the result of the offspring from the Engineers, since the weaponize black goo incinerated them all. It's also interesting to note, depending on the way pathogens are ingested, also impacts the method of "birth". Love that actually.

We also see five different mutations in Prometheus. The first is when the indigenous worms are exposed to the black goo, resulting in the Cobra Snake. One with Fifield falling head first into a pile of black goo turning him into a raging Fifield monster. One where an Engineer gets the squid facehugger. One where David takes a single drop of the black goo and drops it a drink when he gives it to Holloway. And after the single drop infects Holloway, and he has sexy time with Shaw, Shaw actually becomes pregnant with the squid facehugger. This could also explain why Holloway's mutation is so slow because the single drop of goo was merely and experiment that David was toying with. This is a great lead in to Covenant because we can see how far he has come in 10 years of experimenting.

This leads into the next bits with David. There's a scene in Prometheus where David is talking to Weyland, presumably either through his dream because he's using the same VR head device as he was when the movie started and he was watching Shaw dream, or it's just a way of communicating to Weyland who's in light hibernation. Or he could be merely awake in another part of the ship. Regardless, it's pretty obvious he's talking to Weyland. The conversation goes something like this: "No, sir, I will take care of it. Yes, sir, understood. I'm sorry. Fortunately, slightly premature." This is where Vickers approaches David abruptly asking what "he" said. David replies "Try harder". This the beginning of David's experimenting and putting the answers to Weylenad's questions before the safety and morality of the crew. You can basically chop this up to David being Weyland's personal "Sonny" from iRobot. He's a synthetic programmed for one purpose. The Vicker's scene is equally important because the reveal hasn't been made yet that Weyland is Vicker's father. This actually makes a lot more sense why that "reveal" scene was so prominent. Vickers and Weyland have two completely different set of priorities and it's clear Vicker's doesn't agree with his father- nor loves him at this point. When Weyland dies, her immediate response is "time to go".

Back to "try harder". What does this mean? Well it's about the mission. The point of the mission was to see if there was a way to prolong death. If all the engineers were dead (as initially thought) the mission would be a failure. So Weyland responded: "try harder" . Right after this scene, David asks Holloway "how far he would be willing to go to get answers" to which Holloway replies "anything"- that's where David infects him with the goo. He's doing everything he can to get answers for Weyland.

Couple of other smaller things- Prometheus takes place in 2089.
Alien Covenant - 2104
Alien - 2122
Aliens - 2183
Alien 3 - 2184
Alien Resurrection: 2379

It was cool to hear the Covenant crew talk to the ship as "mother", like Alien and Resurrection)- This wasn't just a great throwback, but there is no AI/mother in Prometheus. Why? My guess is the technology wasn't developed yet. However, David calls Vicker's "mum" throughout the film. The thought here is she was acting as the overseer of the mission, much like the AI does in the other movies.

Unanswered questions from Prometheus : Why did they want to kill the human race? Though it's even stated in Prometheus that it's irrelevant. I really like the Jesus theory. Which leaves one last question.

Why did the Engineers leave a map to their military weapon's manufacturing planet? We'll never know.

[transmogrifier]

We also see five different mutations in Prometheus. The first is when the indigenous worms are exposed to the black goo, resulting in the Cobra Snake. One with Fifield falling head first into a pile of black goo turning him into a raging Fifield monster. One where an Engineer gets the squid facehugger. One where David takes a single drop of the black goo and drops it a drink when he gives it to Holloway. And after the single drop infects Holloway, and he has sexy time with Shaw, Shaw actually becomes pregnant with the squid facehugger. This could also explain why Holloway's mutation is so slow because the single drop of goo was merely and experiment that David was toying with. This is a great lead in to Covenant because we can see how far he has come in 10 years of experimenting.


Ugh, you just reminded me why I dislike Prometheus so much. Let's take a simple concept and render it totally nonsensical because we can.

[Ezee E]

I feel like Ridley Scott just used the Alien franchise to make the sci-fi movie he always wanted to make, but probably wouldn't have gotten the funding for.

[Scar]

I'm not sold on this one yet. Some excellent scenes, but didn't care for the final confrontation with the Alien. With that said, I am a fan of the actual ending.

People seriously need to start following Quarantine procedures.

[Skitch]

Seeing this in a couple hours.

[Pop Trash]

Interesting exploration of intergalactic robot fascism. Mostly the best one in this series since ALIENS...mostly.

[megladon8]

So, like, um, where do Queens come from?

[Dukefrukem]

Who cares?

[megladon8]

Huh?9

[Dukefrukem]

Huh?9

Why does the answer to that question matter?

[TGM]

So, like, um, where do Queens come from?

Heh, was actually wondering that as well. :p

[megladon8]

Why does the answer to that question matter?

Why does it matter any less than any of the other continuity questions people have posed in this thread?

It has been established in several films since Aliens that the queens lay the eggs, the eggs hatch facehuggers, facehuggers bread xenomorphs.

Now the queen has no place in the life cycle.

Not to mention how did that ship full of eggs make its way to LV426 now that we know how eggs really come to be.

[TGM]

I think I enjoy this film despite such glaring continuity issues. Honestly, both this and Prometheus set out to answer all sorts of questions that I was never asking after watching the Alien movies (just assumed that they were, you know, aliens. How they came to be doesn't really matter, does it? They're just monsters from another world). So in a sense, even though these are within canon with the other films, a part of me just enjoys them as their own thing, sorta similar to what Ezee alluded to with this just being Scott's way of being able to get another original sci-fi idea of his made. So yeah, it honestly raises more questions than it really answers, but even so, I can still dig it on its own merits. And this movie really has me wanting to revisit Prometheus and actually give it a second chance, and see if I can't appreciate it more now.

[transmogrifier]

Why does the answer to that question matter?

It matters because Ridley Scott has decided to take something that didn't need explaining and explain it. Fine, in that case, at least do it properly. But these first two movies have been rife with idiotic plot conveniences and ridiculous character decisions and inconsistent timelines and random biological phenomena and it is only serving to frustrate rather than illuminate. It has taken something that we didn't know much about and two movies later we still don't know much because of the parade of unanswered questions that litter these things. So, no, that one question on its own wouldn't be enough to break an entire film, but it is one of a trillion little questions, deaths by a thousand cuts.

AND, even worse, Prometheus was cut a little slack because it was assumed many of the unanswered questions in that would be addressed in Covenant. But as we have seen, most of the Engineer stuff has been waved away, so it follows that many of the unanswered questions in this latest one may never get answered. And that's frustrating. And should absolutely be a source of criticism.

It doesn't feel as if there is any underlying logic in this prequel duo; they're so wrapped up in deepening a mythology that didn't need deepening that they are forgetting a basic rule: make sure it is logical in the context of the rules you have set for your universe. Here, it fails dramatically.

[Ezee E]

To me, the Queen is just David's next step in development, considering the one alien at a time simply isn't working out.

I'm guessing he'll somehow be labeled as 'dangerous' or 'wanted at all costs.' He takes refuge on whatever planet he's on, develops the queen that can create the eggs on her own without him there, and awaits an army that's out to get him...

[Dukefrukem]

It matters because Ridley Scott has decided to take something that didn't need explaining and explain it. Fine, in that case, at least do it properly. But these first two movies have been rife with idiotic plot conveniences and ridiculous character decisions and inconsistent timelines and random biological phenomena and it is only serving to frustrate rather than illuminate. It has taken something that we didn't know much about and two movies later we still don't know much because of the parade of unanswered questions that litter these things. So, no, that one question on its own wouldn't be enough to break an entire film, but it is one of a trillion little questions, deaths by a thousand cuts.

AND, even worse, Prometheus was cut a little slack because it was assumed many of the unanswered questions in that would be addressed in Covenant. But as we have seen, most of the Engineer stuff has been waved away, so it follows that many of the unanswered questions in this latest one may never get answered. And that's frustrating. And should absolutely be a source of criticism.

It doesn't feel as if there is any underlying logic in this prequel duo; they're so wrapped up in deepening a mythology that didn't need deepening that they are forgetting a basic rule: make sure it is logical in the context of the rules you have set for your universe. Here, it fails dramatically.



That's bollocks. People complain about Prometheus because it presented more questions than answers- but at least it tried to do something new. Now people complain about this movie because it answers questions (but not the ones I want!), and is basically a remake of Alien. It's a lose lose with audiences and it's frustrating as fuck to read.



AND, even worse, Prometheus was cut a little slack because it was assumed many of the unanswered questions in that would be addressed in Covenant.

This couldn't be more incorrect. Prometheus was cut... zero slacks.

[Dukefrukem]

To me, the Queen is just David's next step in development, considering the one alien at a time simply isn't working out.

I'm guessing he'll somehow be labeled as 'dangerous' or 'wanted at all costs.' He takes refuge on whatever planet he's on, develops the queen that can create the eggs on her own without him there, and awaits an army that's out to get him...

That's cool if that's true, but I take it as another mutation within the Xenomorphs. I mean, as I said before, it doesn't matter in the least bit.

Think of it like a Ant Queen. Or Bee Queen.

[Russ]

Or an Ant Bee.

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff324/astrojester/antbee_zpsl7kapdse.jpg

[Scar]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/089/710/6f1.png

[megladon8]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Scar again.

[transmogrifier]

That's bollocks. People complain about Prometheus because it presented more questions than answers- but at least it tried to do something new. Now people complain about this movie because it answers questions (but not the ones I want!), and is basically a remake of Alien. It's a lose lose with audiences and it's frustrating as fuck to read.



This couldn't be more incorrect. Prometheus was cut... zero slacks.
Here's where I think your argument falls down:

1. Trying something different =/= good
2. Answering questions =/= good

Pretty straight forward. And as I said, Scott has taken something that didn't need explaining and made it convoluted and inept.

[Ezee E]

That's cool if that's true, but I take it as another mutation within the Xenomorphs. I mean, as I said before, it doesn't matter in the least bit.

Think of it like a Ant Queen. Or Bee Queen.

Sure. No reason to discount the movie for not answering it either.

If the xenomorph species figured it out on its own, like the "life finds a way" meme. That'd be pretty cool.

I like my idea of basically retreading Aliens territory by bringing in the military to take down David and his xenomorph farm. Obviously, doesn't go as planned.

[Dukefrukem]

Here's where I think your argument falls down:

1. Trying something different =/= good
2. Answering questions =/= good

Pretty straight forward. And as I said, Scott has taken something that didn't need explaining and made it convoluted and inept.

As if those were the only two things I liked about both films. I couldn't have cared at all if any questions were answered in Covenant. Which is why I don't care about the Queen question. Those are nice to haves. Not musts.

[transmogrifier]

That's cool if that's true, but I take it as another mutation within the Xenomorphs. I mean, as I said before, it doesn't matter in the least bit.

Think of it like a Ant Queen. Or Bee Queen.

Don't you see the contradiction here? If it doesn't matter how the aliens work or how anything comes about regarding the xenomorphs, why on Earth do we need a prequel trilogy in the first place? What IS the point?

[Dukefrukem]

Don't you see the contradiction here? If it doesn't matter how the aliens work or how anything comes about regarding the xenomorphs, why on Earth do we need a prequel trilogy in the first place? What IS the point?

HAha that's exactly why I pointed out Prometheus. It wasn't even supposed to be an Alien film, but just to exist in the Alien universe. Everyone and their mother's complained and Scott said, "Fine, I'll give you Alien 5"... He basically was giving the audience a middle finger with that shower scene at the end (which at that point was like a completely different movie was tacked on. Everything on the ship was fan service). He WANTED to do something new, but you simpletons couldn't handle it.

[transmogrifier]

you simpletons

r/iamverysmart

[Dukefrukem]

You know I'm just lashing out.

[Ezee E]

Ha. For a bit, I didn't know there was a couple on the ship.

[Skitch]

Im not gonna review this until I see it again because admittedly I had a few drinks beforehand. As a Prometheus defender who can make the leaps required to make it a cohesive plot, I was fucking baffled by Covenant. I didnt understand a fucking thing in this movie. I said to my friends, "this is what Prometheus haters mustve felt leaving the theater." I dont even know where to begin.

Review withheld for now.

[Dukefrukem]

Alien Vs. Predator had a better opening than this.

[Wryan]

For fuck's sake, can we please give Guy Pearce something better to do in these movies than to exist at various stages of crotchety? I also don't know what accent Fassbender was trying for Walter, but I knew that reed instrument was up to no good. It didn't occur to me before this film that there has never, not once, been a flying xenomorph hybrid (perfect organism, my ass!). There was almost some movement in that direction with the giant horsefly drawings/"models" (?), but upon reflection, it might be better that we don't go down the Tremors 3 road. Everything in this felt preordained and sort of obvious. Maybe they should have split up the couples so one half remains in cocoons. Gives the woke crew further incentive to protect the cargo and reduces potential distractions. Actually, who gives a shit.

And Scott wants to do how many more of these? Maybe he shouldn't.

[Dukefrukem]

https://i2.wp.com/bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/alien-6.jpg?resize=720%2C960

[Irish]

He WANTED to do something new, but you simpletons couldn't handle it.

OOH, I share your frustration. OTOH, I can't really blame anybody for being disappointed in an "Alien" movie that didn't have any aliens.

[Dukefrukem]

OOH, I share your frustration. OTOH, I can't really blame anybody for being disappointed in an "Alien" movie that didn't have any aliens.

The title of the movie led you to believe there would be Aliens in the movie? Or the one sheet? or the tagline: "The search for our beginning could lead to our end".

[megladon8]

Reducing all of the complaints about Prometheus to "you simpletons couldn't handle something new" is next level silly.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh Meg. That's why it's a joke.

[Irish]

The title of the movie led you to believe there would be Aliens in the movie? Or the one sheet? or the tagline: "The search for our beginning could lead to our end".

I'm saying that if you make a movie in that universe and don't show the aliens, people will be disappointed. That's all. It seems self evident to me, like basic movie making and marketing 101 but apparently Fox and Scott (still!) haven't figured it out.

I can't really blame anyone who was pissed about that experience, and I can't blame them for staying away from this franchise because it's become too esoteric and weird.

[transmogrifier]

Esoteric and weird is definitely not the problem; confusing, lumbering, and occasionally idiotic definitely is.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I feel like I'm in Spinal Tap with some of these recent explanations for why movies tank:

I for one don't think the problem was that Prometheus was offbeat and alien-free, I think the problem may have been that it was a dumb and ill-conceived B-movie.

[transmogrifier]

I feel like I'm in Spinal Tap with some of these recent explanations for why movies tank:

I for one don't think the problem was that Prometheus was offbeat and alien-free, I think the problem may have been that it was a dumb and ill-conceived B-movie.

That's a bingo.

[Ezee E]

Kinda surprised this is at 100%

[Dead & Messed Up]

Kinda surprised this is at 100%

I haven't seen it yet, and I still have an Engineer-sized chip on my shoulder.

[transmogrifier]

I haven't seen it yet, and I still have an Engineer-sized chip on my shoulder.

You should be happy with this, then.

[Dukefrukem]

Kinda surprised this is at 100%

Irish definitely won't like it. Neither will Arya or D&MU.

[Irish]

I think the problem may have been that it was a dumb and ill-conceived B-movie.

"Dumb and ill conceived B-movie" could describe most of this franchise and a majority of Hollywood product. You'll have to be more specific than that.

[transmogrifier]

"Dumb and ill conceived B-movie" could describe most of this franchise and a majority of Hollywood product. You'll have to be more specific than that.

Not Dumb or Ill conceived: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3

Dumb and/or Ill conceived: Prometheus, Alien: Covenant

Dumb but not Ill conceived: Alien: Resurrection

They Don't Count: Alien vs. Predator 1 & 2

So scientifically you are wrong

[Dukefrukem]

Isn't Alien 3 the very definition of Ill Conceived?

Fox wanted to do a sequel but the producers didn't, the script was passed around like a dozen times. And the studio basically did whatever they want to get asses in the seat.

There was even supposed to be a 4th movie with Hicks and Newt.

One of the scripts had a 50 story size alien.

So yeh Ill Conceived and rushed.

Edit 37: There was even a script on Earth, with aliens and cornfields... which eventually turned into: Signs.

Edit 38: David Tuohy wrote a script that takes place on a space station prison without Ripley- where they were breeding xenomorphs and using the prisoners as hosts. This idea eventually becomes Alien Resurrection.

[Irish]

Not Dumb or Ill conceived: Alien, Aliens, Alien 3

Dumb and/or Ill conceived: Prometheus, Alien: Covenant

Dumb but not Ill conceived: Alien: Resurrection

They Don't Count: Alien vs. Predator 1 & 2

So scientifically you are wrong

:D Wait, what?

Why doesnt AvP and its sequel count?! Same producers as all the others.

(This is my quibble with the fandom around these movies -- out of 8, exactly 2 of them are "good." The rest are varying degrees of suck. Resident Evil, F13, and Michael Myers can almost beat that track record, FFS!)

ETA: one of my favorite quotes--David Cronenberg on "Alien," circa 1979:

"It has no metaphysics, no philosophy. The creature winds up as a man in a crocodile suit who chases a bunch of people around a room. I think that my own films do a lot more in touching a deep seated nerve, more than the simple reaction that you don’t want a crocodile to eat you. 'Alien' was just a $300,000 B-movie with a $10 million budget."

Is he wrong too?

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/2016/01/14/david-cronenberg-and-david-lynch-on-alien/

ETA 2: "Alien" has the same problem as "Terminator." People still love one franchise and gave up on the other. Why?

[Ezee E]

Jealous quote there.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Jealous quote there.

Cronenberg's the same guy who was taking down comic books (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/david-cronenberg-slams-superhero-films-batman-boring-362780) a few years after getting raves for his own comic book movie, A History of Violence. I love a lot of his work, but dude, chill.

[transmogrifier]

Isn't Alien 3 the very definition of Ill Conceived?


No, because the resulting product is remarkably tonally consistent and thematically resonant. Forget about the production history - that, like all movies ever, is totally irrelevant. To me, "ill conceived" means that the premise of the film that is eventually created just doesn't work; it has nothing to do with external matters.

[transmogrifier]

Is he wrong too?


Um, yes? We've had this conversation before about appealing to authority, and it didn't end well.

[transmogrifier]

Why doesnt AvP and its sequel count?!

Sure, because I haven't seen them.

[Irish]

Jealous quote there.

Potential jealousy doesn't make him wrong, though.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, I mean... I'd argue there is something sort of ill-conceived about a third Alien film in which Ripley is so frequently a passenger to her own story. You can justify it with the losses she's suffered, but no one compelling takes the wheel (somehow, they populated a space prison with the least interesting criminals in the universe), and the result is just this limping, sour death-trudge. Pretty to look at, though, and yes, there are interesting subcurrents.

[Irish]

Um, yes? We've had this conversation before about appealing to authority, and it didn't end well.

Yes -- mostly because you still don't understand what "appeal to authority" means. (In this case, if anyone has the chops to comment on the relative quality of "Alien," it's Cronenberg.)

I thought we were joking around and having a bit of fun. Am I reading this wrong or are you intentionally being a dick right now?

[Dukefrukem]

No, because the resulting product is remarkably tonally consistent and thematically resonant. Forget about the production history - that, like all movies ever, is totally irrelevant. To me, "ill conceived" means that the premise of the film that is eventually created just doesn't work; it has nothing to do with external matters.

So your definition of "ill conceived" is a definition that no one else on the planet uses. Got it.

[transmogrifier]

Well, I mean... I'd argue there is something sort of ill-conceived about a third Alien film in which Ripley is so frequently a passenger to her own story. You can justify it with the losses she's suffered, but no one compelling takes the wheel (somehow, they populated a space prison with the least interesting criminals in the universe), and the result is just this limping, sour death-trudge. Pretty to look at, though, and yes, there are interesting subcurrents.

It's not her story anymore. That's the main point of it.

They are the least interesting criminals because they are all religiously indoctrinated and chose to remain there as a result of that.

And the fact that it is a sour death trudge is what makes it brilliant. And I would argue Weaver, Dutton and Dance give the three best performances of the entire series here - with Fassbender the only real other contender.

[Irish]

Cronenberg's the same guy who was taking down comic books (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/david-cronenberg-slams-superhero-films-batman-boring-362780) a few years after getting raves for his own comic book movie, A History of Violence. I love a lot of his work, but dude, chill.

I dunno -- semantics and all but there's a pretty wide gap between "A History of Violence" and something like "Man of Steel." Technically, "American Splendor" and "Ghostworld" could be considered 'comic book movies.'

If people are gonna quantify comics book movies as "anything based on a comic book" then why don't they do the same for movies based on articles, short stories, novels, etc? Because as categories, they're meaningless. Grouping films that way doesn't tell you anything about the work. Nobody ever talks about the top 10 best films based on a magazine piece, after all.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Yes -- mostly because you still don't understand what "appeal to authority" means. (In this case, if anyone has the chops to comment on the relative quality of "Alien," it's Cronenberg.)

I thought we were joking around and having a bit of fun. Am I reading this wrong or are you intentionally being a dick right now?

No, Irish, and you do this frequently, where you make these big statements or challenges with no meaningful suggestion of humor or "joking around" and then step back and act like we've all just been engaging in pleasurable thought experiments. It can get taxing.

[transmogrifier]

Yes -- mostly because you still don't understand what "appeal to authority" means. (In this case, if anyone has the chops to comment on the relative quality of "Alien," it's Cronenberg.)

I thought we were joking around and having a bit of fun. Am I reading this wrong or are you intentionally being a dick right now?

Yes, you are reading it wrong. At least you were, until now.

Some randomly selected stuff that you can find because the internet is like, right there:


We must keep in mind that for such an appeal to be justified, certain standards must be met:
1. The authority is an expert in the area of knowledge under consideration.
2. The statement of the authority concerns his or her area of mastery.
3. There is agreement among experts in the area of knowledge under consideration.

plus


Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true.


plus


In particular, an appeal to authority is inappropriate if:
the person is not qualified to have an expert opinion on the subject, or
experts in the field disagree on this issue.


And so on.

Do I really need to find another filmmaker who says they like Alien? No, because it doesn't mean anything.

[Irish]

Do I really need to find another filmmaker who says they like Alien? No, because it doesn't mean anything.

Experts will always disagree. Your interpretation of what the fallacy means makes academic citation impossible under any circumstance. I said this last time. You still don't get it.

But hey, I got internets, too:


The valid form of argument is one in which a recognized and knowledgeable authority on the relevant subject is appealed to by citing a statement by that authority. This is a form of inductive reasoning in that the conclusion is not logically certain, but likely. Examples include following the treatments prescribed by a medical doctor, or citing a respected author to establish claims of fact in a written work.

Are we having fun yet? Because parsing useless shit off Wikipedia instead of discussing movies is so much goddamn fun.

[Dukefrukem]

We are having fun. And we're also still waiting for the first nay, even though this movie was ill conceived.

[megladon8]

Cronenberg's quote can be argued to be "correct", sure, but there's a smug air of condescension to it that's undeniable.

I mean, this quote bashing Alien's B-movie inclinations comes from a guy who, around the same time, made a movie about a woman who kills people with her armpit vagina.

Presence of philosophical undertones does not a better film make.

Alien may be a "$300,000 B movie" at its core, but it's so damn impeccably executed they the material is elevated.

Side note - I am actually a huge Cronenberg fan and love Rabid. I'm just pointing out how his condescending, reductive statements can be made about his own films too.

[transmogrifier]

[redacted]

[megladon8]

Huh?

[Ezee E]

It is true about the criminals in Alien 3 being some of the least interesting criminals I've seen in a prison movie.

[Peng]

I'm still undecided but maybe leaning towards nay currently. These characters being pretty worthless, although thematicaly appropriate to the film, was a drag in the moment and sink the film more and more in my mind.

[Pop Trash]

I might be wrong, but I don't think there was anything really like Alien when it first came out. It looked and felt much different from any other movie from the 70s. Plus it was pretty obviously an influence on The Thing and The Fly.

[Skitch]

Im not joining the argument, but I like to consider audiences mind frame at the time. Star Wars smashed, a hundred clones were released afterward...then Alien. For half the run time it mustve felt like just a creepy scifi flick, and then all horror breaks loose. Truly stands apart from the clones and subpar spacey adventures of the time.

[[ETM]]

This is dumber than I expected. It patches up Prometheus to an extent, but that's a hole that should have never been torn open in the first place, and Covenant should not be praised for it.
Except for some Data-Lore-Lite dynamic between the robots, all we get is another bunch of unlikable alien fodder whose deaths we root for. They die and survive in all the same ways as before, and the questions the film leaves unanswered are perhaps the only ones that mattered.

I'm just done paying for rehashes because I've always enjoyed the sci-fi implications of the franchise, as well as the action potential, which Cameron balanced well with Aliens. I can't do any more nihilistic gore fests that I can't wait to get out of.

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmwyWerz5KI

[Dukefrukem]

Lots of nitpicks but still funny.

[Mal]

I wasn't a fan of Prometheus but that at least felt like there were dire stakes involved. This was kind of boring shit, save the AMAZING FASSBENDER OMG. he's better in this film here than the former. I don't regret having a free pass and seeing this in a theater but maannnn was this mediocre.

[Skitch]

I wasn't a fan of Prometheus but that at least felt like there were dire stakes involved. This was kind of boring shit, save the AMAZING FASSBENDER OMG. he's better in this film here than the former. I don't regret having a free pass and seeing this in a theater but maannnn was this mediocre.

I haven't the slightest idea if you or Tyler Durden enjoyed or hated this movie.

[Ivan Drago]

I enjoyed this once I left the theater, but the more I think about it, the more its flaws bother me. It's great from a technical aspect in the sense that it's very well shot and well scored; there's even a nice callback to the original film in how the music uses an old theme. The actors are also very good, with Michael Fassbender once again knocking his performance out of the park, this time in a dual role. However, while making a slasher movie in the Alien franchise is somewhat of a fresh approach, it comes with the lesser tropes of that subgenre, the biggest one being smart characters that make questionable decisions. Also, as much as I liked the philosophical themes at play, I can't help but feel like a revelation about the xenomorphs in the second act dilutes everything that's made them terrifying for all these years. Overall, Alien: Covenant is a decent movie that would be even better if it didn't have an iconic franchise tied to it.

[dreamdead]

A big meh, though the first hour is genuinely thrilling. The second hour commits to the usual slasher tropes of individuals separating to follow ambivalent and amoral androids, to wash themselves after surviving a freaking alien attack (while knowing the aliens remain out there), and otherwise not situating how everyone should be in radio contact with one another every few minutes.

I found the first attack with Amy Seimetz engaging in its use of little dialogue, depending on her terror and a more documentary feel to the camerawork, yet it was the best sequence for me. Everything in the final 15 minutes was just annoying, even though Fassbender's android loyalties were basically interesting enough. Still more frustrated with the potential wasted than anything else.

[Dukefrukem]

The poster on the first page just arrived yesterday from Bottleneck Gallery. :-D

[Dukefrukem]

That means everyone go out and see Alien: Covenant.




Fuck that!


I'm not sure I want a Blomkamp Alien movie.

No, wait: I know I don't want a Blomkamp Alien movie.

I purchased two extra tickets for you guys over the weekend.

[[ETM]]

I thought RefLetterMedia were spot on, in line with my views, even too lenient.

[Morris Schæffer]

To me, the Queen is just David's next step in development, considering the one alien at a time simply isn't working out.

I'm guessing he'll somehow be labeled as 'dangerous' or 'wanted at all costs.' He takes refuge on whatever planet he's on, develops the queen that can create the eggs on her own without him there, and awaits an army that's out to get him...

Or here's another thought. The Covenant ship holds colonists heading for Origae 6, but what if David re-aligns its path towards LV-426. That could mean that...Newt and her parents are aboard the Covenant and will eventually be part of human terraforming colony Hadley's Hope. Or I could be way off. But Scott did say many more alien movies are on the way.

This movie really worked for me. First hour is wonderful, but it's weird that it becomes less interesting as soon as the monsters show up. I'm substantially less frightened than I once used to be by the sight of these xenomorphs and their various permutations. Hey it's Mr. facehugger. Cute!

[[ETM]]

Only that the previous movies established that the aliens originated from an Engineer ship with eggs in its cargo, NOT from the colony ship itself.

The more I think about this whole mess the less sense it makes and. I'm definitely never paying for anything Scott does within the universe again.

[Grouchy]

This movie was BAAAAAAAD.

It continues the tradition established by Prometheus of having the dumbest crew ever. They are scientists and technicians but they have the skills and discipline of raunchy teenagers in a Jason flick. I want to see their antics in the first half of the movie sped up and scored to the Benny Hill theme.

Unlike that movie, though, it doesn't have interesting science fiction concepts. I mean, I think of Prometheus as an interesting failure to make cerebral sci-fi. I think of this movie as a failure in every way. It has zero tension, sketchy plotting and characters who constantly make questionable calls, dated jump scares and a stupid ending. Also, the idea that David created the Xenomorph is silly. It basically just repeated the twist from Prometheus and the human race, except that concept has some irony to it in that the human race was created in a casual way, almost like an afterthought. It's not interesting or appealing to me that the Xenomorph was created the same way. In fact, it lessens the impact of the monster and contradicts all previous iterations of the franchise. This is the type of sequel that's so bad it retroactively fucks up good movies and forces you to ignore it.

Also, why the fuck does the chestburster scene feature a tiny white alien instead of the chestburster? I feel like those two guys from Red Letter Media now. Fuck you, Ridley Scott.

[Morris Schæffer]

;572658']Only that the previous movies established that the aliens originated from an Engineer ship with eggs in its cargo, NOT from the colony ship itself.

Since David is responsible for creating the aliens and therefore also the eggs (a somewhat dissapointing development), and since Alien Covenant and Prometheus take place before 1979 Alien, I assume we are going to find out how the eggs are going to end up on the engineer ship. No?

I don't see a lapse in logic or chronology. Please elucidate me. :)

[Dukefrukem]

Since David is responsible for creating the aliens and therefore also the eggs (a somewhat dissapointing development), and since Alien Covenant and Prometheus take place before 1979 Alien, I assume we are going to find out how the eggs are going to end up on the engineer ship. No?

I don't see a lapse in logic or chronology. Please elucidate me. :)

There isn't. People are nitpicking. It doesn't really matter anyway, I don't know why people are hung up on this.

[[ETM]]

I don't know why everyone doesn't find it incredibly stupid. I mean, we're supposed to wait for another dumb installment in the series to find out how David manages to infest YET ANOTHER alien ship and its pilots and YET AGAIN crash it on a planet where ANOTHER random group of schmucks get killed...

[transmogrifier]

There isn't. People are nitpicking. It doesn't really matter anyway, I don't know why people are hung up on this.

Doesn't it bother you that they are taking something that didn't need explaining and explaining it in the most ridiculous way possible?

PS: It matters because that is literally the ONLY point of this new series - to explain shit.

[Morris Schæffer]

Doesn't it bother you that they are taking something that didn't need explaining and explaining it in the most ridiculous way possible?

PS: It matters because that is literally the ONLY point of this new series - to explain shit.

Well, this I do also feel somewhat, but in hindsight it is easy to say this didn't need explaining since Prometheus and Alien Covenant are obviously inferior movies. But what if they hadn't been? Would we still say they were merely explaining shit?

[Grouchy]

Well, this I do also feel somewhat, but in hindsight it is easy to say this didn't need explaining since Prometheus and Alien Covenant are obviously inferior movies. But what if they hadn't been? Would we still say they were merely explaining shit?
Well, precisely. If they told good, engaging stories we wouldn't feel like they're movies about expandin unnecessary backstory.

[Dukefrukem]

Doesn't it bother you that they are taking something that didn't need explaining and explaining it in the most ridiculous way possible?

PS: It matters because that is literally the ONLY point of this new series - to explain shit.

I honestly don't buy the idea that answering these questions is the reason these movies are getting made.

And it's literally not the ONLY point of this new series. We've been over this. They couldn't continue from Alien Resurrection. Or didn't feel like continuing was warranted. OR fair to the fans. And decided to do something NEW, that everyone shit on. I.e. Prometheus.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Duke was right.

I hated this movie.

I didn't hate all of it. I liked the idea of David from Prometheus reinvigorated as a Frankenstein trying to create life, and I even appreciated that his House of Deformity played as a nod to, of all things, the Ripley-clones in Alien Resurrection. And I also liked the sequence that starts with the crew landing and lasts through Siemetz killing herself. I also had a lot of fondness for Crudup's nervous captain character. He's a character type I don't really remember seeing in the Alien universe, although there are hints of Corporal Hicks in his reticence to lead.

But there's a key decision in this film that just so infuriated me that I wanted to walk out of the theater - something I still haven't done to this day, because I always want to give a movie its best shot. And I doubt it'll surprise anyone that the decision is the idea that David from Prometheus created the Xenomorphs. Fuck that so hard. I should've girded myself for that potential plot turn, and a part of me even suspected it might head in that direction, but then it actually did, and I just couldn't even... like, I'm still angry. And this is entirely a consequence of my own investment in the original film, and how much I continue to admire it for not answering all the questions it raises. If the last film seemed intent on ripping the mystery away from the Space Jockeys, revealing them as goofy-ass planetary seeders straight out of Erich von Daniken, this one now removes every bit of interest regarding the Xenos; they're now the gene-spliced product of a robo-tool who's sad because he can't create things (you know, like flutes or drawings). Then, just to kick a little extra sand in my eyes, Scott gives us a tacky flashback where the Engineers' planet is exactly what you'd expect - a Greco-Roman classical world (although I'd concede that the first glimpses of the town square successfully evoke Pompeii - it's a miracle someone doesn't underline the analogue).

Returning to the characters, because as much as I hated hated HATED (thanks, Ebert) the revelations about the Xenos, if the film is successful at developing its characters and all that, then okay, there's something to hold onto. [Good development can excuse a lot of plot logic issues, as well they should - we watch movies to have emotional experiences, not to make sure somebody's playing Sudoku correctly.] But apart from earlier-mentioned Oram and Walter/David (and I almost forgot, the double-Fassbenders have a kickpunch fight, this fucking movie), the characters never elevate beyond functional, but after the clusterfuck with Shaw in the previous film (you know, the infertile Christian who dreams of fertility and has no meaningful reaction to the cosmos shoving a monster in her womb), functional works. They have no ambitions beyond not dying, but each gets a moment or two (if only that) to offer something beyond survivalist intensity. Dani gets to find ways to encourage Oram without condescending, and Tennessee gets his moment to grieve for his wife.

There's also the issue of all the extra deck hands who exist solely to show us the "fascinating" (re: spindly and mindless) permutations of David's creations, but that feels like Ridley's intent now, especially after the similar cattle mutilations of Prometheus. To just create a festival of nasty deaths. Well, okay, but when the second climax begins with two nondescript characters fucking in a shower right before the Alien tongue-rapes the back of the guy's head, is there anybody who could honestly say they give a single damn about what's happening? That it even registers?

Goddamnit, and then, as some sort of final middle finger, Scott makes bloody obvious that David is the one who returns to the ship, jukes you slightly just by delaying the reveal for as long as he does, and then when it finally hits, it's supposed to mean something. If we would've actually seen Dani have her suspicions, study him, find some way to test him (beyond that limp line about the cabin), then it might've worked, because we wouldn't just be waiting for Ridley Scott to slam down the ace we watched him pocket 20 minutes ago like he's some kind of poker wizard.

Because the characters aren't the disaster they were in Prometheus, this is probably a marginally better film, but I just can't get past the decisions they made about David creating the Xeno. I hate it. I want to forget this movie as soon as possible, and never think about it or Prometheus again.

[transmogrifier]

The thing that sticks out for me is the fact that Scott cuts to the shot of the decapitated head floating in the fountain THREE separate times. Such a clumsy movie.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The thing that sticks out for me is the fact that Scott cuts to the shot of the decapitated head floating in the fountain THREE separate times. Such a clumsy movie.

"Clumsy" is a kind word.

[Grouchy]

Heh, I'm with you. If someone had told me beforehand that the movie explained the origins of the Xenomorph I might theoretically think it was a bad idea to begin with... but the actual explanation just floored me with its ineptness.

[Stay Puft]

waiting for Ridley Scott to slam down the ace we watched him pocket 20 minutes ago like he's some kind of poker wizard

LOL

I had a feeling they were going to do something like that five minutes into the damn movie, and watching it unfold the way it did was blowing my mind in a way the nonsensical mythology revelations couldn't. Clumsy doesn't even begin to describe it.

I don't understand anything about this franchise anymore. I hated this movie more than Prometheus.

[Rico]

If people are gonna quantify comics book movies as "anything based on a comic book" then why don't they do the same for movies based on articles, short stories, novels, etc? Because as categories, they're meaningless. Grouping films that way doesn't tell you anything about the work. Nobody ever talks about the top 10 best films based on a magazine piece, after all.

My very meaningless list.

1. Dog Day Afternoon - "The Boys in the Bank", Life, September 22, 1972 - P. F. Kluge
2. Boogie Nights - "The Devil and John Holmes", Rolling Stone, May 1989 - Mike Sager
3. Almost Famous - "The Allman Brothers Story", Rolling Stone, December 6, 1973 - Cameron Crowe
4. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas - "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas", Rolling Stone, November 11 & November 25, 1971 - Hunter S. Thompson
5. In Cold Blood - "In Cold Blood: The Last to See Them Alive"' The New Yorker, September 25, 1965 - Truman Capote
6. Adaptation. - "The Orchid Thief", The New Yorker, January 23, 1995 - Susan Orlean
7. Into the Wild - "Death of an Innocent", Outside, January 1993 - Jon Krakauer
8. Argo - "How the CIA Used a Fake Sci-Fi Flick to Rescue Americans From Tehran", Wired, April 2007 Joshuah Bearman
9. The Insider - "The Man Who Knew Too Much", Vanity Fair, May 1996 - Marie Brenner
10. The Killing Fields - "The Death and Life of Dith Pran", The New York Times Magazine, January 20, 1980 - Sydney Schanberg

[Rico]

As for Covenant. If I had never seen an Aliens film before I think I would come away thinking this was legit great. Unfortunately this movie comes with a lot of baggage and Aliens coming out of people's chests isn't scary anymore. The second half particularly just feels stale, a retread of things we've seen before.

Overall it gets a mild yay from me because of double Fassbender, that first Alien encounter, and overall there are some amazing visuals. But this is not a movie I'll re-watch again.

[Ezee E]

As for Covenant. If I had never seen an Aliens film before I think I would come away thinking this was legit great. Unfortunately this movie comes with a lot of baggage and Aliens coming out of people's chests isn't scary anymore. The second half particularly just feels stale, a retread of things we've seen before.

Overall it gets a mild yay from me because of double Fassbender, that first Alien encounter, and overall there are some amazing visuals. But this is not a movie I'll re-watch again.

This is a good point.

For people who've never seen the alien series, I wonder what it's like if they watch this first, then go to Alien/Aliens/etc...

[D_Davis]

This was OK. Although why they cut out so much is mind boggling. When I got back from the theater I went on to youtube and watched the prologue and the cut scenes, and it made the film infinitely better - all of this should have been in the film. The whole idea of the crew being comprised of couples seems like an important aspect of the film and its title, and yet it was all but entirely cut from the theatrical cut.

It was more consistent than Prometheus, but I found Prometheus to be entirely more interesting.

[Dukefrukem]

It was more consistent than Prometheus, but I found Prometheus to be entirely more interesting.

Agreed!

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njlXBc8Q7o4

[Dukefrukem]

Trans is going to take exception to Alien 3 being categorized as a bad alien movie.

[transmogrifier]

Nah I don't ever watch Honest Trailers, so I'm cool with it.

[D_Davis]

Alien 3 is great.

[D_Davis]

Honest Trailers are an example of the absolute worst that geek culture on the internet has to offer. Lame jokes based on reductionist reasoning, while confusing nerd-rage memes and flippant cynicism as criticism.

[Dukefrukem]

Someone didn't get the joke.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Honest Trailers are an example of the absolute worst that geek culture on the internet has to offer. Lame jokes based on reductionist reasoning, while confusing nerd-rage memes and flippant cynicism as criticism.

Advice: if you think "Honest Trailers" is bad, never, ever watch "Everything Wrong With" videos.

[D_Davis]

Someone didn't get the joke.

That's the thing. There's no joke there. :)

[D_Davis]

Advice: if you think "Honest Trailers" is bad, never, ever watch "Everything Wrong With" videos.

Oh god no. Avoid at all costs.

I typically can't stand that kind of content. All snark, no insight.

[Grouchy]

Eh. They make me laugh. They are specially effective when the movie is as bad as Alien: Covenant.

[Dukefrukem]

That's the thing. There's no joke there. :)

That's the thing, there is and always was. " flippant cynicism as criticism" It's not supposed to be taken seriously.

[Skitch]

Advice: if you think "Honest Trailers" is bad, never, ever watch "Everything Wrong With" videos.

The last one I watched dinged a fault at the Warner Bros logo. From that moment I was done with those EWW vids forever.

[Devlin]

Beyond the first alien encounter and Michael Fassbender, I didn't like this at all. As others have pointed out, it was way too convoluted with cardboard characters and an illogical approach that I just couldn't get past. Too much of it felt like a pale remake, and when it tried to find it's own identity it failed.
I guess I should mention that I haven't liked any of the Alien movies since the second one. I did enjoy Prometheus to a degree, but that didn't really feel like it fit with the other films in this franchise. The first two films, and especially Alien, had a singular agenda. To make a slam bang horror (or action/horror in the case of Aliens) film with science fiction overtones. As the series has evolved(?) the filmmakers have attempted to create a mythology to offer a reason for it to exist (beyond the box office desires). As with many franchises that stray too far from the original subject matter (think Halloween) the end result is a watered down, muddled reworking of what was once a beautifully simplistic concept that stood far above the usual genre conventions.

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPuUerPZ_xc

[megladon8]

Please tell me I’m not alone in thinking Fassbender’s accent as Walter is super weird.

[megladon8]

I have so many mixed feelings about this. I think if I were to try to write it out it would be a jumbled mess of half baked ideas and dangling threads (kind of like Prometheus and Alien Covenant). So I’ll just share some bullet points:
-holy crap Michael Fassbender’s American accent is weird
-Michael Fassbender(s) is the best part of the movie
-like Prometheus, it has some great heady ideas, but focuses on the wrong stuff
-why was it continually brought up that Billy Crudup’s character was religious? It’s mentioned like half a dozen times, but it affects nothing. No other characters, nothing in the story, and thematically has no effect on the movie’s religion vs science themes. Why was it important?
-watching the deleted scenes on YouTube is INCREDIBLY frustrating, as they make the movie much better and more coherent. They show what happened to Shaw, they answer the question of why David was able to make eggs without a Queen, they explain in a single concise sentence exactly what the black goo is...why was this stuff cut??
-one of the greatest weaknesses of Prometheus was it’s characters acting so stupidly. In Covenant they are even more stupid, but I hesitate to even call them characters in this film as we know and learn nothing about them. One of them wears a cowboy hat, one of them loves his wife’s tits, and two of them were maybe gay. That’s about the extent of any characterization we get.
-the initial alien attack is awesome
-the android fight is awesome
-strong visuals all around, at least in design (there’s some questionable CGI)
-the film promised to answer questions from Prometheus, but while it answers some, it raises two more for every one it sheds light on
-like, how was there a xenomorph in the mural in Prometheus? Are we still missing information, or is the timeline totally screwed?

In the end I think I would rate this almost identically to Prometheus. Both have some fascinating stuff at their core, but have no idea how to explore the themes they bring up, and both focus on the least interesting elements of their stories.

[Dukefrukem]

I can answer the religion question and the mural question.

Religion Question: They establish at the beginning of the film, he has a chip on his shoulder to make the right decisions as captain, because his crew/company question him based on his faith. In the end, his faith was the result of his demise. Fitting but not very original. There's even a line that David feeds him about "the devil's workshop" because he knows he will relate. That's how he's able to lure him into the cellar.

Mural Question: I think most people forget the black goo is what mutates the DNA of the any creature it comes in contact with. The xenomorph in the mural is a warning but depending on what type of host the blackgood infects, will alter the look of the Xenomorph. The only reason we are familiar with THIS (https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/2017/05/alien-covenant-ac_152_00459216_rgb_copy_-_h_2017.jpg) type of Xtrenmorph, is we have almost always seen it come out of a human after being infected by a face hugger. We see it come out of a Dog once And an Engineer once. And when it did, the xenomorph was altered slightly. We have also seen the effects of the engineered black goo in liquid form (zombie humanoid) and spore form. I think its fucking fantastic how such a powerful weapon can infect hosts in so many different ways.

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tumblr_m5h80uNo5J1qh460io1_500 .jpg

[Skitch]

I still love that poster so much.

[megladon8]

Thanks for the insights Duke, and for reminding me of that handy chart.

Again, there’s more there to like than dislike.

[Ivan Drago]

Looking back on this now, I liked it okay even though it quite possibly has the single worst line in a movie this year.

"You hold the flute.....I'll do the fingering."