Logan (James Mangold)

[transmogrifier]

http://cdn2-www.comingsoon.net/assets/uploads/gallery/untitled-wolverine-sequel/logannewposter.jpg

[transmogrifier]

Wrap up the X-Men series and call it a day. They won't top this.

[Dukefrukem]

Got my tickets for Thursday.

March is a busy month:

March 1- Horizon Zero Dawn
March 2- Logan
March 9- Kong
March 16- Beauty and the Beast
March 17- Iron Fist
March 21- Mass Effect 4

[transmogrifier]

74/100

I'm not a big fan of the X-Men series. Up till now, I've pretty much found all of the films to be various shades of dull, treating its vast range of characters like exhibits in a zoo as it flits from random showdown to random showdown, all the time being weightless and shoddy (it doesn't help that the primary director of these things, Bryan Singer, is a terrible action director, nor that the thematic resonance of persecution gets rammed into the ground very early on).

Well, finally (to me, at least; I'm not sure what happened in the previous two Wolverine solo films, because I didn't watch them) the series has something worth celebrating - a hard-as-nails, resolutely somber, narrowed down thing that takes all of the fluff nonsense of the past and somehow finds resonance in it simply through the passage of time and the accumulation of regrets. The opening scene is a perfect encapsulation of what is to come - weary carnage - and Mangold directs the hell out of this thing, knowing when to pick up the pace and when to slow it down, and knowing how to find interesting kinetic variation in what is a relatively basic action scenario (big blades go through flesh), something that the enervating action scenes in John Wick Chapter 2 couldn't do (it helps that everyone is just so fucking angry).

But this is Jackman's show, and he sells it like never before. Sure, there are some plotting problems along the way (which I won't reveal here), but there's more going on here than that. Finally, the X-Men series has found a soul.

(Just checked - this is the highest I have ever rated a comic book movie. It's better than anything in the MCU, better than any of Nolan's Batman films, better than Raimi's Superman.... the next highest is Batman Returns at 71.)

[Dukefrukem]

Finally, the X-Men series has found a soul.

Hah. It only took 10 movies.

[Dukefrukem]

Logan is tracking a $65 million opening weekend- which I have to say is quite disappointing considering Deadpool made 2x that.

[megladon8]

I never really liked Raimi's Superman movie.


:D

[Ezee E]

I like that they have estimates for Logan's weekend and it's Wednesday.

[transmogrifier]

I never really liked Raimi's Superman movie.


:D

Oops. Guess I just smoosh all this stuff together in my brain.

[Peng]

Nearly 20 years of cinematic history is so keenly and affectingly felt, not through call-backs or references, but through hard lines on faces, suffering bouts of regrets, and ailing bodies full of scars. Their sight indicating passage of time already had me a bit choked up just in the first 10 minutes, and it also underlines just how powerful the urge of protecting a fresh, young, familiarly gifted face must feel to these old mutants. That helps restore the stakes and desperation in the vicious fights that follow, all so realistically bloody in each stabs and blows. The scale is (comparatively) rather small, but it's incredible how, just by allowing a feeling of mortality to hang over and a tight focus on characters, it can make for a deep drama that rarely comes by in the superhero genre. Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart sell the weariness magnificently (can't believe I've been watching them in these roles since 2000), and newcomer Dafne Keen delights in a steely, kick-ass performance as the fierce beacon of light for them. 8.5/10

[Dukefrukem]

(Just checked - this is the highest I have ever rated a comic book movie. It's better than anything in the MCU, better than any of Nolan's Batman films, better than Raimi's Superman.... the next highest is Batman Returns at 71.)

Slow your roll there. This movie is good, but it aint that good. We're talkin about a 2 hours and 21 minutes of somber, dark, dreary bloodbath. I watch movies for entertainment and this does not rank high on the "Hey you know what I'm in the mood for" movie scale. What really boggles my mind is how predictable this movie is- there's nothing left to the imagination here.

"Hey you know what I'm in the mood for? Manchester By the Sea, only with Comic Book characters"

It's fine for exactly what you want it to be. A nice send off for Logan and what fans have been craving for 9 fucking movies- Logan using his claws to actually kill people. And I don't mean stab them in the chest and watch the claws disappear to be removed without an ounce of blood. But throat slashing and decapitation. But what are the stakes here? Why does this movie exist? So that Jackman can ride off into the sunset? Does it exist only because of Deadpool? It leaves a lot to be desired. Mangold, is not a good action director. I'm not even sure he's that great of a director in general. In fact, if Singer had this script, I bet it would be paced a lot better- surely you can find 20 minutes to cut out of this thing. I love the "journey" aspect here- I truly see why people are clamoring over this movie. It's the first X-Men movie that actually tugs at the character strings. But man... Imagine this type of attention on character in X-Men 2- a movie with a script that actually led to something. Logan's existences is pointless.

It's the third best X-Men movie.

1. X-Men
2. Deadpool
3. Logan
------- Suck Line
4. Days of Future Past
5. Apocalypse
6. X2
7. First Class
8. The Wolverine
9. The Last Stand
10. Origins: Wolverine

[transmogrifier]

We're talkin about a 2 hours and 21 minutes of somber, dark, dreary bloodbath.

Indeed. That's why it's the best comic book movie I've seen.


"Hey you know what I'm in the mood for? Manchester By the Sea, only with Comic Book characters"

Yep, pretty much.


In fact, if Singer had this script, I bet it would be paced a lot better

I don't think I could disagree with anything more. Singer is a terrible, terrible, terrible action director.

[kuehnepips]

Excellent. Very recommended.

[megladon8]

Duke I haven't seen Logan yet but your list is nutso crazy.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't think I could disagree with anything more. Singer is a terrible, terrible, terrible action director.

Disagree with what? That's all fine...
I just think Mangold is a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible action director.

[Morris Schæffer]

Logan is tracking a $65 million opening weekend- which I have to say is quite disappointing considering Deadpool made 2x that.

Tracking 80 mill now.

[transmogrifier]

Disagree with what? That's all fine...
I just think Mangold is a terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible action director.

He's not here though (I haven't seen Knight and Day, and never will); the action scenes are fast and brutal and filled with rage. It's very well done.

[Dukefrukem]

I have. It's bad.

[Morris Schæffer]

Ok, I'm gonna be honest. If Trans gives it a nearly ringing endorsement, and someone else does not, I'm gonna go with Trans this time.

No hard feelings Duke. I'm seeing this in 17 hours.

[transmogrifier]

Ok, I'm gonna be honest. If Trans gives it a nearly ringing endorsement, and someone else does not, I'm gonna go with Trans this time.

Playing with fire there....

[TGM]

So a fight broke out in my theater, and they actually had to stop the movie to break it up and kick people out. People wouldn't stop talking, someone told them to shut up, and they didn't take it well at all. But even after that was handled, my shit crowd continued to laugh all throughout, at all the dramatic moments. This is why I typically avoid going to the movies on a Friday night. The absolute lowest common denominator comes crawling outta their holes and infesting the theaters.

Anyways, typical shit crowd aside, this was excellent. I sorta echo Trans' sentiment that they may as well end it here, 'cause there ain't no way they're topping this.

[TGM]

Reading through the thread, I'm 100% on board with Peng and trans (well, other than his thoughts on this being the best superhero movie, period. So, 99% then?). This is easily the best X-Men movie to date, and the action scenes as they were fit perfectly within the context of this thing. They're not flashy at all, just raw and brutal and unrelenting, like the movie itself as a whole.

I think Singer as director could've easily fucked this up. Part of what makes this movie excell like it does is in just how deadly seriously they take this material. It elevates it to something more than just another typical comic book movie, makes it feel like a hard drama first that oh by the way, there's also mutants involved, too. And if Singer's last outings are anything to go by, then under his helm, this would almost certainly be just another typical campy comic book flick. There's a definite weight to this movie that typically goes missing in Singer films, and this movie definitely earned that weight.

If DC wanted to take more of a serious approach to counter Marvel's sillier side, this is a prime example of what they should have striven for with that approach.

[TGM]

Speaking of, I like how despite being retconned out, the events of Singer's first X-Men movie still apparently took place, according to this film. :rolleyes:

[transmogrifier]

Reading through the thread, I'm 100% on board with Peng and trans (well, other than his thoughts on this being the best superhero movie, period. So, 99% then?).

To be fair, I was meaning the best superhero film I have seen, period. Thor 2 or Superman 4 may still surprise.

[Peng]

Speaking of, I like how despite being retconned out, the events of Singer's first X-Men movie still apparently took place, according to this film. :rolleyes:

I am hoping that Logan speaking of the comic books as "Not all of these happened, but just some of it, and not in exactly this way" (terrible paraphrasing but I think this is the gist) is a sly reference to the film's relationship with past entries, including how they can use that Statue of Liberty line, lol.

[Dukefrukem]

You guys don't have to apologize for not agreeing with me. That's the fun of discuss this stuff.

And don't get me wrong, I liked the movie. It's just nowhere near the best X-Men comicbook movie for me. That first movie still holds a very special place in my heart (that sounded weird to type, but it was the first and last time I saw a movie 4 times in theaters).

For reference, I've listed my favorite comicbook movies: These are the only movies I would consider worth watching.

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/the-top-comic-book-movies/detail/

And here is the MCU Ranking

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/the-best-mcu-movies/detail/

[Peng]

Just for fun, ranking the X-men-verse films, not having seen Origins:



X-Men: Days of Future Past (8.5/10)
Logan (8.5/10)
X2 (8/10)
X-Men: First Class (7.5/10)
X-Men (7.5/10)
X-Men: Apocalypse (7/10)
The Wolverine (6.5/10)
X-Men: The Last Stand (6.5/10)


A bit conflicted whether to put Logan or DOFP first. I think Logan is the best as a FILM, but I still ranked Days of Future Past slightly ahead (at least until I have a proper rewatch of it) because of my fondness for a lot of superheroes converging on a thrilling grand scale (and I really liked Singer as a filmmaker more than most here). I could see Logan only going higher up in time though.

[Dukefrukem]

For those that haven't seen Origins (and believe me you don't need to) this is a pretty cool timeline video that sums up all of the X-Men movies with Wolverine (without any Spoilers in Logan).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YGHDTIUt0s

[Skitch]

I don't hate X-Men Origins: Wolverine. :eek:

[Skitch]

That video makes me want to rewatch all the X-Men movies.

Especially the first one, the best one, a mountain that Duke and I will die on. :D

[TGM]

I don't hate X-Men Origins: Wolverine. :eek:

Me neither. ;)

[TGM]

I think I'm gonna try and see this again sometime later in the week when there shouldn't be such a shit crowd. People are so rude and disrespectful, laughing at all the trauma and anguish happening on screen, making those of us who are genuinely getting sucked into the movie suddenly taken right out of the moment. I forget who said it here exactly, but it made me think of whoever mentioned their audience laughing during a screening of the original Halloween, and how annoying that was. Like, it really isn't that sorta movie.

[Irish]

------- Suck Line

We're not doing this again, are we? :D

(I liked your post; very curious about the movie now)

[Irish]

I don't hate X-Men Origins: Wolverine. :eek:

There are people here -- terrible, guilty, remorseless people -- who gave low rankings to Gone with the Wind.

You have nothing to be ashamed of.

Except for that thing about Tron: Legacy. That's just weird and unnatural.

[Morris Schæffer]

I think this is very, very good, but I'm struggling to reconcile the glowing reviews with my own thoughts. Is this movie great because it is, or simply because it doesn't have an end of the world scenario? In other words, because it is simply not what the others were? And with others I mean most Marvel movies because the X-Men films have shown to be quite capable of dealing with more intimate, more grounded and relevant stories and moral issues.

I mean, Logan is virtually an immense breath of fresh air by default, but I'm thinking the movie is a bit muddled in its motivations. I hear it's about regret, but I'm not sure I got this from the movie. Regret about what? Xavier has done everything in his power to make mutants accepted by society. Whether he succeeded or not is besides the point, but no one can deny the man tried hard. So where does regret come from? What's Wolverine's regret? That he killed a lot of people? They usually wanted to kill him also, so he merely defended himself.

I think the scenes of slaughter, albeit of the R-rated variety, gave me very little satisfaction as it's all so similar and brutal and oh so visceral, but the violence didn't stun me, didn't shock me. Which perhaps it should have as I get the feeling these characters are in fact running away from that life, their powers a curse rather than a talent to be admired and cultivated. Plus, Logan actually tells the little girl that "she should try not to be the person others want her to be." But again, I think for that message to work, I would have to be shocked by the on-screen violence, but I wasn't.

And Dafne is just so talented and vicious and blessed with turbo speed that she makes short work of the opposition. And that's been a problem of many superhero films, that the heroes are just too powerful. Logan is heaps more plausible in that regard, but the villains just don't feel like real villains, but more like cannon fodder to be dispensed in videogame-fashion. SPLAT! SLASH!! KAPOW!!! KERDZING!!!!!!
It's never good when the bad guys actually have to bring in Logan's evil twin brother to actually make some progress. I didn't like that character, he seems written for the sole purpose of evening out the odds, because the writer - I believe Mangold himself - didn't quite know how to deal with his heroes' superpowers, even if one guy isn't quite the mutant that he used to be.
Again, it's still much better than most Marvel films, but it says a lot about the other qualities of the movie that I felt the gory R-rated scenes took me out of it a little bit. It was a real pleasure just seeing the characters going on the road trip, interacting with each other, reminiscing about the past, meeting other folks. Jackman and Stewart are fantastic, and if this movie was merely about getting older, no longer feeling relevant, escaping one's past, then I would have liked it even more. But I also understand Logan is already a big enough gamble and so I'm definitely grateful for the path taken, and the chances afforded by the studio.


I think Singer as director could've easily fucked this up. Part of what makes this movie excell like it does is in just how deadly seriously they take this material. It elevates it to something more than just another typical comic book movie, makes it feel like a hard drama first that oh by the way, there's also mutants involved, too. And if Singer's last outings are anything to go by, then under his helm, this would almost certainly be just another typical campy comic book flick. There's a definite weight to this movie that typically goes missing in Singer films, and this movie definitely earned that weight.

Not sure I agree we should criticize Singer for this. None of his X-Men films are campy. In fact, I would argue that Singer has treated the material in certainly X2 with the utmost care and respect, crafting an X-Men that's at least as thoughtful, topical and engaging as this one. Logan is merely a different beast from the other X-Men movies. I don't think that says anything about directorial talent. Singer could have easily made this same movie that Mangold did, but I suppose the time wasn't right, the world wasn't ready for this sort of Wolverine movie, or perhaps the studios weren't and needed Deadpool to see the light so to speak. The other X-Men films were a real juggling act with all those mutants running around, which is a much bigger challenge than just focusing on one (well, two or three depending on you how look at it) and I think Singer did a real good job even if Apocalypse was overkill.

It's all about intent. What do you want to do and how much does everyone else want to go along for the ride? It's not about directorial talent. If it was, then The Wolverine would not have had a clunky samurai robot finale. No, it's about being given free reign to do something different, it's about being the right time for this sort of movie. What if Jackman didn't want out of the franchise? Would they have gone all out for something this toned down? This raw? This different? I guess we can argue about that all night long and we'd be none the wiser.

Anyhow, Logan ends powerfully, but I believe it could all have been even more devastating had they completely unshackled themselves from the constraints imposed by the genre. And yes, that's probably too much to ask I know.

[Morris Schæffer]

Had some real The Last of Us vibes this movie. :cool:

[Skitch]

Except for that thing about Tron: Legacy. That's just weird and unnatural.
The Jeff Bridges CGI? Yeah I mentioned that. :p

[Dukefrukem]

I think I'm gonna try and see this again sometime later in the week when there shouldn't be such a shit crowd. People are so rude and disrespectful, laughing at all the trauma and anguish happening on screen, making those of us who are genuinely getting sucked into the movie suddenly taken right out of the moment. I forget who said it here exactly, but it made me think of whoever mentioned their audience laughing during a screening of the original Halloween, and how annoying that was. Like, it really isn't that sorta movie.

I forgot to mention this, but I had similar behavior issues in my theater. Three separate people checking their phones and texting during the slower scenes. Ugh.


There are people here -- terrible, guilty, remorseless people -- who gave low rankings to Gone with the Wind.

You have nothing to be ashamed of.

Except for that thing about Tron: Legacy. That's just weird and unnatural.

Raises hand.

[TGM]

RE Morris, on regret:

He may have tried hard, but he still failed in the end, and so regret can come from not believing he did enough, in Charles' case. Hell, as he's mulling about his perfect evening, he mentions how he doesn't deserve it, so clearly he's battling with some wicked demons.

Or for Logan, hell, the fact he's been around for so long, has seen everyone he's cared about die, while he still gets to live, yeah, that can get to a guy. He could've done more, or he should've been the one to die, not them. They didn't deserve it, and its a lot to take on. These are the sorts of thoughts that we see him dealing with, just from his sheer anger and frustration, or the scene at the graveyard, etc. It's not told to us explicitly, but all shown through visuals and sheer performance. That's Logan's regret. And it's why he's contemplating suicide throughout, a means to escape this hellish life that has been so unrelenting to him, and has in turn made him such an unrelenting beast of a man.

RE Morris, on Singer:

Campy might not be the right word, but they all have a very distinct comic book feel. Which isn't bad, for what they are, but isn't an approach that I feel would do this movie justice.

Hell, of all the issues I had with The Wolverine, one of the bigger ones was its inconsistent tone, how sometimes it felt like something a little more serious than your typical comic book fare, only to suddenly become just another silly comic movie with its climax. Not that that was Singer's fault, obviously, but I can't help but feel his version of this movie would have fallen for those same sort of trappings, based solely on all his prior work that I've seen. And, well, that's one of the big things that I love about this film, is how it fully commits to transcending beyond just a typical comic book flick, and consistently maintains its gritty and grounded approach the whole way through.

Not saying Singer couldn't do the same thing, but based on everything I've seen from him, it's not something I would expect him to pull off, either. Feels like it'd be an inevitable clash of tones and styles, IMO.

[Winston*]

Mostly done with superhero movies in general but this was awesome. Loved it. Def the best acting ensemble in one of these things.

[Dukefrukem]

Tracking 80 mill now.

$85 making it the largest R-Rated March opening ever.

http://heroichollywood.com/logan-debuts-85m/

[Winston*]

I think Singer and Mangold are good action directors btw. This still rules:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLOMdddg11A

[Winston*]

Along with the main three, Stephen Merchant was also excellent in this I thought. Also really liked that guy who played the southern baddie. Never seen him before.

[Morris Schæffer]

$85 making it the largest R-Rated March opening ever.

http://heroichollywood.com/logan-debuts-85m/

That's great! Go Logan! :cool:

[Skitch]

Hell yeah GO LOGAN!

[Dukefrukem]

I think Singer and Mangold are good action directors btw. This still rules:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLOMdddg11A

People bring up that scene all the time, and it's literally the best directed action scene throughout all 10 movies- which doesn't paint a good picture for what the rest of the franchise can produce when you never see any scene come close to reproducing it. It's all the opening to X2, which tries to set a tone, and fails miserably.

It's almost as if he got lucky on this one scene, or someone else ghost directed it.

[Dukefrukem]

$85 making it the largest R-Rated March opening ever.

http://heroichollywood.com/logan-debuts-85m/

Really happy a strong Sunday evening pushed this to $88,411,916, making it gross more on opening weekend than X-men Origins... if you can believe that.That shitty movie made $179,883,157 ($373 WW).

[Dukefrukem]

839108592447995907

[Dukefrukem]

CGI is getting good.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qeDH7w-e--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_ 800/b31tnspavkfdef99br6z.png

[TGM]

The X-Men movies are a bit harder for me to rank than most times when I rank a series of movies. I feel there's ranking in terms of actual best to worst, & then in terms of how much I actually like them, despite their inherent quality.

For instance, here's how I'd rank the X-Men movies in order from actual best to worst:

Logan
Deadpool
Days of Future Past
First Class
X2
X-Men
The Wolverine
The Last Stand
Apocalypse
Origins


But then, in terms of most favorite to least favorite for me, here's how that ranking would look then:

Logan
Deadpool
Origins
First Class
Days of Future Past
The Last Stand
X2
X-Men
Apocalypse
The Wolverine

What can I say? X-Men Origins may have been bullshit, but it was at least consistent bullshit from start to finish, and it was damn fun bullshit at that. :p

[Dukefrukem]

That's mind boggling.

[TGM]

That's mind boggling.

Which part? :p

[Watashi]

Superman, Spider-Man 2, and now Logan.

Those are the best the superhero genre has to offer.

It's going to be really hard to get excited for another X-Men or MCU movie after this.

[Watashi]

Well, and The Incredibles, because, obviously.

[Morris Schæffer]

Superman 1978 is really amazing. God I love that movie.

[Milky Joe]

Knight and Day is really good. The Wolverine is really, really boring.

Logan, however, absolutely slayed. Mangold absolutely nailed this one. Beautiful ending. I cried. Five bags.

[TGM]

Yeah, this is a movie that has sat incredibly well with me thus far, and a second viewing definitely made me appreciate it all the more. (Seeing it with a decent audience this time around also helped.) There were a number of details I missed the first go around, particularly as it revolves around Charles' character, and the demons he's dealing with, so I was pleased to be able to fully appreciate his story arc as well this go around. And yeah, the emotional moments left me a god damn mess this time around. So good, so so god damn good.

I think this is definitely another landmark movie in the comic book genre. All the major studios producing these movies have had one thus far, a movie that really raised the bar and set the standard. Sony had it with the first Spider-Man, which was the comic book movie that made people take the genre seriously again, after it had become a joke for about a decade by that point. Then DC and WB had theirs with Nolan's The Dark Knight, the movie that made people not just take comic book movies seriously, but see the potential they had to transcend the genre and be looked upon as genuinely great films in and of themselves, as opposed to merely great "comic book movies". Then I'd say Marvel's contribution came with The Avengers, which was an accomplishment in the genre that really paved the way for how studios would produce these sorts of films moving forward. And while things in the genre may have mostly become complacent since then, Fox has finally come out of the gate swinging, with the rated R Deadpool last year opening the door for their big groundbreaking film that's bound to raise the bar once more in the form of Logan, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this is the next movie that leaves all the other studios taking note.

With Fox apparently allowing their filmmakers free reign to just make a fucking film with their rated R division of flicks, and not be so constrained by typical studio mandates and whatnot, we're finally seeing actual films being made within the genre, as opposed to the boring, monotonous conveyor belt cinema that we've become so used to. And if The Dark Knight was the first big step in taking comic book films seriously beyond the genre itself, then this movie feels like the next big leap beyond that. This is a movie that truly feels genuinely mature and has a real gravitas to it, and is so consistent with its tone and approach throughout that even when the more comic booky stuff does rear its head in, it never feels silly or out of place, like it has in other so many other movies, and the movie incorporates it all in such an organic way that compliments the themes of the movie and maintains its weight the whole way through.

I just love how this is almost entirely a performance driven movie, and how the way that its filmed and the set design and everything all mirrors the characters themselves, and their internal turmoil. And god, Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart are so incredible in this, I know it's still early in the year, but as it stands now, god damn do I hope that those two at the least receive Oscar nominations for their performances here.

[Dukefrukem]

Meh. Not giving Mangold 100% credit but... ok i guess.

839874304183435265

[TGM]

Well, he did direct both films and at least wrote this one (not sure if he worked on the script at all for The Wolverine), so it's possible that was him.

Anyways, I think I want to actually rewatch all of the X-Men movies before I see this again, so I can really see and appreciate the full culmination of the story as a whole, and everything that lead to this phenomenal closing chapter.

[number8]

Finally saw it and I'm about to eat my shoe because I definitely liked this than any movie Marvel Studios ever made. Jesus, what. For a damn X-Men movie.

It's derivative as hell, but cribs from the right movies. Great use of Shane. It really felt like someone made the kind of western I adore and swapped in a Wolverine.

[number8]

It also caught me off guard how political this movie was. I really didn't expect it to be. But holy shit, they actually made a movie about a guy named Donald hunting down Mexican children trying to cross a border.

[TGM]

I hear it's about regret, but I'm not sure I got this from the movie. Regret about what? Xavier has done everything in his power to make mutants accepted by society. Whether he succeeded or not is besides the point, but no one can deny the man tried hard. So where does regret come from?
I know I responded to this in a previous post already, but I caught a couple details on the second viewing that had slipped by me the first time around which really answers this question, but basically, a big part of Charles' regret comes from the fact that he's partially responsible for wiping out the mutant race. We hear a brief snippet on the radio after they escape the hotel, where the news report mentions how a similar incident a year prior to the events of the movie had lead to the deaths of several mutants. Then, just before X24 kills him, when he thinks he's speaking to Logan, he mentions how he remembers what he did, despite all of Logan's efforts to try and keep the truth from him. Basically, he had one of those episodes of his, and it lead to the death of a lot of their kind, possibly wiping out whatever was left of their friends, and is really why Logan has hidden him down in Mexico, because he's become just that dangerous. But yeah, that's a big part of his regret, and it's why, even though he's still trying to live his life and show Logan that there's still something worth living for, he doesn't feel that he, personally, deserves a better life, for what he's responsible for, even if it was against his will.

[[ETM]]

I don't think that's true. I think it was a whole bunch of people, like Oklahoma​ City, and the mutants mentioned are them, not others.

[Skitch]

Finally saw it and I'm about to eat my shoe because I definitely liked this than any movie Marvel Studios ever made.

Whoa whoa WHOA! I'm shocked at that. I'm planning on catching it this weekend.

[number8]

;568442']I don't think that's true. I think it was a whole bunch of people, like Oklahoma​ City, and the mutants mentioned are them, not others.

The radio specifically said incident at Westchester. That's where the school was. It's heavily implied that Xavier's seizure killed everyone at the school except Logan, which is why he tried to keep Charles from remembering what happened.

[TGM]

It also caught me off guard how political this movie was. I really didn't expect it to be. But holy shit, they actually made a movie about a guy named Donald hunting down Mexican children trying to cross a border.

I actually didn't even catch this at all, lol. That's awesome.


Finally saw it and I'm about to eat my shoe because I definitely liked this than any movie Marvel Studios ever made. Jesus, what. For a damn X-Men movie.

I hadn't really thought about how I'd compare it to the MCU really, mostly comparing it against the other X-Men films. But yeah, honestly, I think I may well like this better than any of those movies, too. Guardians probably comes closest, but time will tell which one stays with me the strongest. For me though, the non-X flick I've been holding this up against the most has been The Dark Knight, which really says a lot about it that it's on that level.

[[ETM]]

I don't think it's fair to compare this to MCU. It's a one off with a huge emotional roller coaster and payoff. It's done now. No one can try this approach again or it will misfire massively.

[TGM]

;568458']I don't think it's fair to compare this to MCU. It's a one off with a huge emotional roller coaster and payoff. It's done now. No one can try this approach again or it will misfire massively.

I wouldn't necessarily say that's the case. I can definitely see other studios trying to mimic what this movie did (for instance, I can definitely see WB be more inspired to borrow from this than Marvel, who seem overly comfortable with sticking to their own formula), but whether or not it fails I think depends on how the movie is mimicked. If they just try to recreate it beat for beat, then yeah, it'll probably be a bust. But if they borrow certain elements, such as its tone and more character-driven approach, then I can see it working in capable hands. Though, again, capable hands is sort of key there. You can definitely tell there wasn't a whole lot of studio interference with this thing, and Mangold was really allowed freedom to make the film that he wanted to make. And that's honestly been one of the biggest issues with the most recent DC and Marvel outings, is that you can really see the studio interference on screen. So yeah, that'd be the big kicker that really depends on how successful such a movie would be, I'd think.

[Morris Schæffer]

I know I responded to this in a previous post already, but I caught a couple details on the second viewing that had slipped by me the first time around which really answers this question, but basically, a big part of Charles' regret comes from the fact that he's partially responsible for wiping out the mutant race. We hear a brief snippet on the radio after they escape the hotel, where the news report mentions how a similar incident a year prior to the events of the movie had lead to the deaths of several mutants. Then, just before X24 kills him, when he thinks he's speaking to Logan, he mentions how he remembers what he did, despite all of Logan's efforts to try and keep the truth from him. Basically, he had one of those episodes of his, and it lead to the death of a lot of their kind, possibly wiping out whatever was left of their friends, and is really why Logan has hidden him down in Mexico, because he's become just that dangerous. But yeah, that's a big part of his regret, and it's why, even though he's still trying to live his life and show Logan that there's still something worth living for, he doesn't feel that he, personally, deserves a better life, for what he's responsible for, even if it was against his will.

Hey there. Started to realize this as well after we first spoke about this. Hell of a thing to live with.

[TGM]

;568458']I don't think it's fair to compare this to MCU. It's a one off with a huge emotional roller coaster and payoff. It's done now. No one can try this approach again or it will misfire massively.

You are right though in that this is certainly a different beast than what we normally get from Marvel, though, what with it being more stand alone, as opposed to their more continuous model. Probably why this movie makes for a more fitting comparison to The Dark Knight for that reason as well.

[Winston*]

The radio specifically said incident at Westchester. That's where the school was. It's heavily implied that Xavier's seizure killed everyone at the school except Logan, which is why he tried to keep Charles from remembering what happened.

My memory is that it said he killed seven and injured hundreds.

[number8]

My memory is that it said he killed seven and injured hundreds.

Ah right. I think the idea is that those seven were the remaining X-Men members.

[Skitch]

Okay, caught this today. Wow, even reading the majority of this thread, my expectations were off. I'm just going to spoiler everything because your really should see this with as little prep as possible. I'm still trying to unpack all my feelings about this, but there is SO DAMN MUCH to dig through, I barely know where to begin.


-Felt like there was a nod to every single movie with Wolverine in it. I like that. It was subtlety done at times, blatant at others. They all felt great. The writing in this film is EXCELLENT.
-Its a smidge too long. I think there was ten cutable mintues. Its not a dealbreaker, but a couple scenes that added nothing, and lots of filming of people sleeping and waking up.
-I was expecting "dark and gritty", and yeah, I can see why some would say that, but there was a lot of humor here. Its less "Old Man Logan" and more "Get Off My Lawn Charles". There were way more laughs to be had than I expected. Some seriously funny "jaded old man" humor, of which I love.
-We get it. You're an R rated film. You don't have to say "fuck" in every sentence to prove it. Relax a bit.
-X-23/Laura was an shockingly excellent actress for her age.
-I was so happy that I didn't know who the big bad villain was from the trailers, and I was disappointed it was doppleganger Logan. I don't know what would be better, I was just hoping for some big surprise. CGI young soulless Wolverine was a vicious scary bastard, but...I don't know. I would've rather had some other character. Even an invented one.


Its a very well made film, and it explodes hearts with hearts all over its feels and hearts. Its a perfect capper (and comparable exponential growth in quality we've seen previously) to the solo Wolverine trilogy.

Looking forward to seeing where Fox decides to go in the future.

[number8]

I've read a lot of complaints about the baddie, and I vehemently disagree with them. I thought making Logan's nightmare and struggle of being a killer literal and physical pretty effective for his character arc. They kept it consistent with the theme it's exploring instead of introducing a supervillain just to have an obligatory boss fight. I much prefer this.

[Skitch]

I've read a lot of complaints about the baddie, and I vehemently disagree with them. I thought making Logan's nightmare and struggle of being a killer literal and physical pretty effective for his character arc. They kept it consistent with the theme it's exploring instead of introducing a supervillain just to have an obligatory boss fight. I much prefer this.

Oh I get it. I truly do. It was horrifying and it worked in spades. I'm only talking about my expectations versus what is. I just...was not expecting that. Let it digest a bit, and I'll be fine. I repeat, the writing on this film was EXCELLENT.

In the back of my head, the comic book dork inside was hoping for an insane mind-controlled Juggernaut, but instead it was the biggest psychological "fuck you" ever for Logan. That scene in the end where X24 is dragging him with claws in shoulder and Logan looks up at him like "So this is what all my victims felt like" was unbelievable.

[Winston*]

I've read a lot of complaints about the baddie, and I vehemently disagree with them. I thought making Logan's nightmare and struggle of being a killer literal and physical pretty effective for his character arc. They kept it consistent with the theme it's exploring instead of introducing a supervillain just to have an obligatory boss fight. I much prefer this.

Also tragic for Professor X to be killed by a bastardisation of the race he swore to protect.

[number8]

The whole scene is just pretty horrifying. Who else thought it was a dream sequence at first, and then felt sunken when it kept going? It's a pretty clever reversal of an often used trope.

[Skitch]

I noticed immediately that the camera was not on who he was talking to. I didnt think it was dream but suspected it wasnt who he thought. Devestating.

[Wryan]

Fucking aces, man. This was superb back to front.

That little girl was immaculate. Probably Jackman's and Stewart's best performances for these characters, too, which was previously very hard for me to imagine.

[Skitch]

Also tragic for Professor X to be killed by a bastardisation of the race he swore to protect.

Hell, the more I think about it...the DoFP dystopian future was a better outcome for mutants than what happened here.

[Skitch]

The more I think about this flick, the more my opinion improves. They managed to make a legit dramatic film that just happens to be comic based. Its like Hell or High Water, but with action bits better.

[TGM]

I've read a lot of complaints about the baddie, and I vehemently disagree with them. I thought making Logan's nightmare and struggle of being a killer literal and physical pretty effective for his character arc. They kept it consistent with the theme it's exploring instead of introducing a supervillain just to have an obligatory boss fight. I much prefer this.
This pretty much mirrors my thoughts on it. I get why some might be a bit put off by the prospect, as it is technically the most comicy aspect of the whole movie. And in a lesser film in lesser hands, yeah, it may well have not even worked. But it was so flawlessly executed that I honestly couldn't see this movie working any other way. Not only does its inclusion fit, it completes the movie, its themes, and our character's journey.

[TGM]

The whole scene is just pretty horrifying. Who else thought it was a dream sequence at first, and then felt sunken when it kept going? It's a pretty clever reversal of an often used trope.
I also thought that at first as well, and found myself wishing it was in the heat of the moment. That's when you know it's effective, is when you're hoping it's not real. Absolutely devestating stuff.

[TGM]

The more I think about this flick, the more my opinion improves. They managed to make a legit dramatic film that just happens to be comic based. Its like Hell or High Water, but with action bits better.

Seriously, I can't stop thinking about this movie, and it has similarly only improved for me the more I think about it. Tremendous stuff here.

[Morris Schæffer]

Good thoughts fellas. Ive yet to rate it and some of this is is helping me.

[Stay Puft]

The whole scene is just pretty horrifying. Who else thought it was a dream sequence at first, and then felt sunken when it kept going? It's a pretty clever reversal of an often used trope.

YUP.

I was 100% convinced it was a dream sequence.

But then it just kept going.

And going.

And I died inside.

That was the biggest gut-punch of the whole film.

[TGM]

Alright, so a lot of this I have already covered here, but I do dig into some other aspects about this movie that I hadn't really touched on here, and go a bit more in-depth with my thoughts in my full review of Logan that I just posted to the blog, for those interested: http://cwiddop.blogspot.com/2017/03/logan.html

[Dukefrukem]

This must confuse the fuck out of Hollywood execs.

https://d1ro8r1rbfn3jf.cloudfront.net/ms_124812/ON26a3iptW2wsea8JpQS12ODMwjSEc/Wolverine%2Bv.%2BWolverine%2B-%2BGoogle%2BChrome%2B2017-03-19%2B20.23.00.png?Expires=1490 055817&Signature=gAJh4uZl1f6A3MpF2S7H NFFZAomBJyEwVSmDFf84SqEWKpmkoA 4iPRcgxCHm-iZ-3CAlk30jk1DByUND3tK75uIOj84qIf JNYYZnYwwAZDrRzpNGX6quXfPiOgMI QPZ3TZ2B4kdLbnHa-Ooj8t1-JQsedXat9BZNg6YRrDl51eXXInODOo 26qgmeEbudiY2o4uMkdL3gemNa-XYYd~L-hmib8Z9h02P8p1GU4vXjB4Tanm0nkw UMbb7yy25kwyP11G~dEgaqd0qy5an6 ZU~4dttgqwkiA60RWB1bYSOXTV2LlA Rh5tx-dJTbpz6wWkfs-FPjdpbqfJsiOIA4SeyS6w__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAJHEJJBIZWFB73RSA

[BuffaloWilder]

I liked it, a lot. Currently tied with Get Out as my front-runner for favorite film of the year (so far, at least). A Western through-and-through, all shot up with themes of vengeance, legacy and guilt in wide-open spaces. I liked how it basically eschewed most of Old Man Logan which is a phenomenally stupid and morose story from Mark Millar (who is usually phenomenally stupid) and instead revels in the implications of what old age means for these kinds of characters.

Also, as a guy who grew up with Stewart's Professor X and Jackman's Wolverine, I can't think of a better way for them to go out. Man-tears were shed. My wife, who hasn't watched but three of the previous films, was also crying. Daphne Keen is also really great in a mostly nonverbal performance as X23 - she really gets into it, and has a really emotional pair of eyes that carry a lot of her scenes with Jackman.

Top marks all around.

[Morris Schæffer]

Over 200 mil now at the BO. That makes me happy.

[megladon8]

Holy sweet Jesus this movie hurt me deep.

There were two points in the film where I audibly sobbed.

This was amazing stuff.

[megladon8]

There was some surprisingly nice dialogue in this, too.

Honestly, this was a really damn good movie that just happened to have mutants in it.

Boyd Holbrook was quite something, too. His first conversation with Logan in the limo was written and performed very well.

[Irish]

Haven't read the thread yet, but I can't believe I'm the first 'nay.'

This was a welcome departure from the previous "Wolverine" movies, but as a standalone film it fucking sucked. And I mean that in the worst way. Sucked ass. Big, flatulent ass. Big, flatulent, greasy ass.

Everything they do in this movie is overplayed and heavy handed, from the Wolvie Chick Jr to Young Wolvie the Terminator (Cyberdyne Systems Model T1200) to the predictable deaths to the music over the end credits. (I've never seen a movie try so hard to be a Johnny Cash song and totally whiff it.)

The worst part: The multiple references to "Shane." Jesus good God that was trite (and thematically stupid, given the plotline of this and every other X-Men movie.)

The best part: When the loser X-Kids basically ewok Boyd Holbrook to death. That was funny. Stupid, but funny.

The depressing part: There were multiple instances where I literally stared at the ceiling of the theater instead of watching the screen, because I was so fucking bored.

[megladon8]

I feel like this was a life test that you failed, Irish.

[Irish]

I feel like this was a life test that you failed, Irish.

I feel like I've seen this movie dozens of times and this version didn't bring anything new to the table except a feral little girl and a lot of pointless violence.

[number8]

I went to see this a second time. So great. Literally not a single boring moment.

[transmogrifier]

I don't know; "Sucked ass. Big, flatulent ass. Big, flatulent, greasy ass" is a compelling argument. Can I change my vote?

[Irish]

I don't know; "Sucked ass. Big, flatulent ass. Big, flatulent, greasy ass" is a compelling argument. Can I change my vote?

lol :D

I know, I know. I was actively angry leaving the theater. Stuff like this genuinely makes me mad.

I wasnt' trying to form an argument in my post. Mostly, just venting. (I wrote 900 words of notes into a text editor and now I feel better.)

[Skitch]

I feel like I've seen this movie dozens of times and this version didn't bring anything new to the table except a feral little girl and a lot of pointless violence.

Holy shit I need to watch the movies youre watching! :D

[Dukefrukem]

Haven't read the thread yet, but I can't believe I'm the first 'nay.'

This was a welcome departure from the previous "Wolverine" movies, but as a standalone film it fucking sucked. And I mean that in the worst way. Sucked ass. Big, flatulent ass. Big, flatulent, greasy ass.

Everything they do in this movie is overplayed and heavy handed, from the Wolvie Chick Jr to Young Wolvie the Terminator (Cyberdyne Systems Model T1200) to the predictable deaths to the music over the end credits. (I've never seen a movie try so hard to be a Johnny Cash song and totally whiff it.)

The worst part: The multiple references to "Shane." Jesus good God that was trite (and thematically stupid, given the plotline of this and every other X-Men movie.)

The best part: When the loser X-Kids basically ewok Boyd Holbrook to death. That was funny. Stupid, but funny.

The depressing part: There were multiple instances where I literally stared at the ceiling of the theater instead of watching the screen, because I was so fucking bored.

I YAYed it, but like TGM with Beauty and the Beast , I have more negative things to say about it than positive things to the point where I should have NAYED it.

You could say, "I TGMed it".

[megladon8]

Yeah I feel like I watched a different movie from what Irish did, based on his posted thoughts.

Genuinely bums me out that someone could so viscerally hate something that shook me to my core like that.

[TGM]

Haven't read the thread yet, but I can't believe I'm the first 'nay.'

This was a welcome departure from the previous "Wolverine" movies, but as a standalone film it fucking sucked. And I mean that in the worst way. Sucked ass. Big, flatulent ass. Big, flatulent, greasy ass.

Everything they do in this movie is overplayed and heavy handed, from the Wolvie Chick Jr to Young Wolvie the Terminator (Cyberdyne Systems Model T1200) to the predictable deaths to the music over the end credits. (I've never seen a movie try so hard to be a Johnny Cash song and totally whiff it.)

The worst part: The multiple references to "Shane." Jesus good God that was trite (and thematically stupid, given the plotline of this and every other X-Men movie.)

The best part: When the loser X-Kids basically ewok Boyd Holbrook to death. That was funny. Stupid, but funny.

The depressing part: There were multiple instances where I literally stared at the ceiling of the theater instead of watching the screen, because I was so fucking bored.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo...:e ek:

[TGM]

You could say, "I TGMed it".

I'm really not even sure what this means. :p

[Ezee E]

Wow. This took me by surprise.

A pretty low-scale comic book movie by CGI standards (at least the noticeable stuff), a solid story, and LOTS of twists that I didn't see coming at all. I'm so glad I didn't read through any threads or reviews.

I'll start reading this thread now, but consider me shocked by how good this is. It might be the best X-Men story of the whole dang franchise.

[Ezee E]

I finished the thread and will reply with my thoughts in the morning. Nothing stood out of ordinary to sway me in any way.

[Ezee E]

So yes.

Absolutely brilliant, even if it did feel a little long, and I question if Logan was truly heroic or not.

Where Deadpool went R for easy jokes, language, and nudity, it feels wholly earned here. As mentioned before, this is the Wolverine that's been wanted since Day 1. Berserker mode where the claws are rough, visceral, scary. As one of the few mutants left, he and X-23 truly feel like the most powerful out of the group, that is until Xavier shows what he's capable of.

The performances across the board are actual performances because they aren't trying to fit in every player. This is the problem with Civil War that could've done without a good part of the group. Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart obviously lead the way, but they are actually humanized. Add in X-24, and you have a completely different Wolverine, and one that's pretty terrifying. By the way, I also thought it was a dream sequence because I figured there was no way they'd off Xavier so easily....

Which leads to twists of actually killing characters and bringing in others without making an obvious foreshadow to it. The shock of X-24 showing up out of nowhere, Xavier dying, hell, even Logan dying is just something I'm not used to after all the comic book movies that refuse to even kill a secondary character. Crazy that X-24 kills off the two biggest characters in the X-Men world.

Eden... Obviously this can lead to its own sequel, and a world I'd gladly visit again. If there are a few characters that would have a sanctuary, which do you think it would be? Jean Grey and Cyclops seem like obvious candidates. Rose Byrne's Moira Mactaggert would be key to me.

[Pop Trash]

Oof. You might wanna spoiler tag that Ezee.

[Dukefrukem]

Anything goes in the discussion thread.

[megladon8]

Pretty sure I've been called out for not spoilering stuff in the discussion thread of a film.

[Skitch]

Pretty sure I've been called out for not spoilering stuff in the discussion thread of a film.

Its an ongoing conflict. I'm fine with either way, just somebody state the law definitively.

[Irish]

Anything goes in the discussion thread.

Do away with spoiler tags and you'll chase away any tangential discussion (eg: the recent "Beauty and the Beast" thread) or anyone mildly curious about the movie (because only people who've seen it will click).

I think the polls are fun but these dedicated threads already kill enough spontaneous discussion as it is.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, I think we need to spoiler so that we can use these threads as recommendations as well, in addition to what Irish mentions, fostering tangential discussions.

[Milky Joe]

I was actively angry leaving the theater. Stuff like this genuinely makes me mad.

That sounds more like a personal problem than anything wrong with the movie. You might consider therapy.

[Ezee E]

No problem spoiler tagging, but I would tread carefully in any database thread since it's discussion of the movie, and when you get to multiple pages, there's certainly going to be opinions and spoilers discussed.

But no one answered my final question.

What's at Eden? I still say it's Moira Mactaggert and maybe a few random mutants that were far enough away from Xavier's seizure attack. In this world, I figure they'd bring back someone like Cyclops/Jean Grey.

Also, anyone realize Ally Sheedy was in X-Men: Apocalypse? Haha.

[transmogrifier]

I never really assumed anything was there. It's just a place to escape to. I hope they don't bring anyone back. I don't want anymore X-Men films.

[megladon8]

I don't think anything is there. It was a fictional place that had been imparted on the kids to create hope.

I figured everything that was there (the shack, the rope pulley, etc) they made when they got there.

[Skitch]

I understood it that Eden was just the meet up place for the kids to regroup so the could cross to Canada, which has a safer place for them to exist.

[number8]

Skitch is correct. You got it confused, E. Eden was the meet-up place in North Dakota, not the end goal. Their end goal is just to get to Canada. The main X-kid talked on the radio to someone across the border who said that their refugee status has been approved by the Canadian government. They just need to get there.

[Ezee E]

Skitch is correct. You got it confused, E. Eden was the meet-up place in North Dakota, not the end goal. Their end goal is just to get to Canada. The main X-kid talked on the radio to someone across the border who said that their refugee status has been approved by the Canadian government. They just need to get there.

Ah, got it.

[Irish]

That sounds more like a personal problem than anything wrong with the movie. You might consider therapy.

i think you may have missed my deeply nuanced point -- you read the part about big, greasy ass, right?

[megladon8]

So Storm walks up to Cyclops and ask, "are you and Jean Grey still dating?"

"No," Cyclops replies, "we broke up. I guess you could call her my...

...

...ex."

[Ezee E]

So Storm walks up to Cyclops and ask, "are you and Jean Grey still dating?"

"No," Cyclops replies, "we broke up. I guess you could call her my...

...

...ex."

Solid, but works even better if you ever Storm going up to Jean Grey and says, "Ex-Man.

[kuehnepips]

Fuck you Irish.

[transmogrifier]

Fuck you Irish.

*confusedface*

[Dukefrukem]

*confusedface*

Says he's drunk

[Skitch]

She loves Hugh Jackman.

[Irish]

Fuck you Irish.

Big, greasy ass, pips!

[number8]

That post seems really uncalled for. Let's not do that.

On the other hand, Irish did call her #1 movie of the year a greasy ass.

[Scar]

I don't have much to add to the discussion. I thoroughly loved this movie, and it hit me right in the feels.

[Ivan Drago]

On the other hand, Irish did call her #1 movie of the year a greasy ass.

That criticism is invalid unless the movie in question is The Greasy Strangler.

[Irish]

Let's not forget that the ass in question is both greasy and flatulent.

[Melville]

This was so damned good.

[megladon8]

I'm still crying.

[Wryan]

That post seems really uncalled for. Let's not do that.

On the other hand, Irish did call her #1 movie of the year a greasy ass.

And he also used "ewok" as a verb. So he's got that going for him, which is pretty nice.

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIl_FiV8V6E

[number8]

Oh wow, I didn't realize that the B&W version is an exclusive Alamo Drafthouse thing.

https://drafthouse.com/event/logan-noir

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_SyrpYk-Ik

[Scar]

The Noir version is choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Philip J. Fry]

This movie was good.

[Philip J. Fry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT75YHqlD9k

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD_aCxKEyb4

[Skitch]

We have become far too comfortable with the work these artists do. That was incredible. Can't even fathom the amount of hours.

[Grouchy]

This was masterful. Just all around a bold movie for Fox, Jackman and Mangold to make. A true crepuscular western by way of the superhero film.

[Philip J. Fry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHLw7ox458c&t=0s

[Rico]

I can't stop thinking about the performance by Sir Patrick Stewart. He is the highlight of the film for me. At some point Charles Xavier was the most powerful X-Man, and perhaps the most powerful mutant good or evil. Thankfully for that universe he was good, and he thought good of people even when others gave up on them, and he attempted to guide them by example and just showing them a better way.

To see him deteriorated to what he has become is heartbreaking. Still, he is trying to guide Logan, trying to make Logan care again, because of all the loss Logan has seen in his long life is too much for one person. He is dishing out lessons up to the very end. (He is a Professor after all.)

Charles is the emotional backbone of this film, and it's a fitting send off to the character with this actor.

Also that scene of them leaving the casino and all he can muster is "I'm sorry" a few times. Oh My God. Not just OMG, have to spell it out. Oh. My. God. Give the man all the awards.

[Ezee E]

I can't stop thinking about the performance by Sir Patrick Stewart. He is the highlight of the film for me. At some point Charles Xavier was the most powerful X-Man, and perhaps the most powerful mutant good or evil. Thankfully for that universe he was good, and he thought good of people even when others gave up on them, and he attempted to guide them by example and just showing them a better way.

To see him deteriorated to what he has become is heartbreaking. Still, he is trying to guide Logan, trying to make Logan care again, because of all the loss Logan has seen in his long life is too much for one person. He is dishing out lessons up to the very end. (He is a Professor after all.)

Charles is the emotional backbone of this film, and it's a fitting send off to the character with this actor.

Also that scene of them leaving the casino and all he can muster is "I'm sorry" a few times. Oh My God. Not just OMG, have to spell it out. Oh. My. God. Give the man all the awards.

Yes. Great point.

This makes me think... What is the best superhero performance??

[Morris Schæffer]

I would loooooove for Stewart to get a supporting actor nom. I doubt it will happen.

Ezee E, I don't know. It sure as shit ain't Halle Berry.

Alan Cumming as Night Crawler? Eh what I am talking about?

HEATH LEDGER!!!!

Or does he not count?

[Dukefrukem]

Because he's a villain? Is the question specific to superhero? Or did eric mean comic book? If the latter, Its either Ledger or William Hurt right?

[Philip J. Fry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5SoLmzBro8

[Mal]

Mangold's best movie since Heavy.

[TGM]

Just rewatched Days of Future Past for the first time since theaters yesterday, and holy shit is that ending so fucking tragic now with Logan as context for what comes next. Jesus.

[Dukefrukem]

That music too. I remember the music being sublime.

[Philip J. Fry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgYoT_xEFY

[Ezee E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgYoT_xEFY

great essay.

[kuehnepips]

great essay. Yes. I think even Irish would like it.

[Irish]

I like the production values of those sorts of videos, but I'm not much a fan of the content.

They are always rudimentary as hell, and usually involves the creator assigning half-assed labels to well-known concepts. (The guy above liberally cites screenwriting books which are retreads of everything from Aristotle to Field to McKee.)

I'm not sure this dude realizes his most startling insight is that both movies rigidly adhere to modern convention. That's both not-so-insightful and not worth any particular praise.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This was good, but I don't know if I can jump on the Love Boat with the rest of y'all. Yes, it's one of the best of this saga, maybe even the best, but I'm not wild on the franchise, but the acting was uniformly excellent, and I liked every time it subverted comic book tropes (like blasting a villain's face in half right in the middle of his exposition monologue), but something about the film felt a bit circuitous - I wish more time was spent developing a bond between Logan and Laura, and that the film had more to say about the company creating what amounted to two children of Logan. As much as the film leans into the "family" theme (which is fair), there seems to be a progeny theme I wish it pursued more. It also took a while to slide into the spirit of the film, as the first big scene was so heavy on cursing and bloodletting that I had trouble taking it as anything more than posturing (and I think that dampened the impact of Laura's first kill - imagine if her rolling the head on the ground was the first time we saw real significant violence in the film). A lot of its success feels more textural than bone-deep. At the end, with Laura at his grave, I was strangely unmoved.

Even with those objections, Jackman deserves an Oscar nom.

[Dukefrukem]

Even with those objections, Jackman deserves an Oscar nom.

That would put him on par with Heath Ledger.

And I will not allow that.

[transmogrifier]

Jackman in Logan > Ledger in The Dark Knight
Logan > The Dark Knight

[Dead & Messed Up]

That would put him on par with Heath Ledger.

And I will not allow that.

I'll allow it, but in the tradition of sitcom judges, it'd better be going somewhere.

[DavidSeven]

I enjoyed it, but I'm not quite on board with the overwhelming support either. It seems to have earned some goodwill for its gritty approach, but grit does not equal profundity. The film sheds no new light on the character; it just drops him into an intensely more violent setting. The film's atmosphere and pared down plotting were certainly refreshing in the larger context of previous Marvel properties but hardly enough to make it transcend above a typical actioner. Give me Nolan's Dark Knight any day and twice on Sunday, subtlety be damned. At least we know that wanted to be about something beyond calling back to old westerns.

From a pure entertainment standpoint, this did not have not the tightest narrative. Emotionally, I think this movie ends at the farmhouse, which is a great sequence. It meanders after that, and every minute that stretched beyond your typical 120-runtime was truly felt.