2016 Critic Lists Awards Thingy Extravaganza

[Watashi]

You know the deal. It's December 1st, which is pretty much the end of the year to critics.

New York Film Critics:

Best Film
La La Land

Best Director
Barry Jenkins – Moonlight

Best Actress
Isabelle Huppert for Elle and The Things to Come

Best Actor
Casey Affleck Manchester by the Sea

Best Supporting Actor
Mahershala Ali- Moonlight

Best Supporting Actress
Michelle Williams for both Manchester by the Sea and Certain Women

Best Cinematography
James Laxton – Moonlight

Best Screenplay
Kenneth Lonergan – Manchester By The Sea

Best Animated Film
Zootopia

Best Documentary
O.J.: Made in America

Best Foreign Language Film
Toni Erdmann

Best First Film (Tie)
The Edge of Seventeen
Krisha

[Pop Trash]

https://www.cahiersducinema.com/Top-Ten-2016.html

[Pop Trash]

Best Supporting Actress
Michelle Williams for both Manchester by the Sea and Certain Women


Really? She wasn't bad, but she would probably be the 'worst' of the ensemble in Certain Women for me.

[ledfloyd]

Really? She wasn't bad, but she would probably be the 'worst' of the ensemble in Certain Women for me.

I'm assuming it's more for Manchester than Certain Women.

[Dead & Messed Up]

The Zootoping begins.

[TGM]

The Zootoping begins.

And rightfully so.

[Henry Gale]

Having finally seen Moonlight tonight, with La La Land and Manchester by the Sea remaining my virtual tie for #1 of the year, I have no problem with them participating in a revolving door of Best Picture wins with critics and awards circles for the next few months.

The Cahiers list is intriguing though, mainly because I've seen exactly one film on it but have been seeing trailers for a lot of the others in front of seemingly everything I have seen in the theatre recently.

[Ivan Drago]

Having finally seen Moonlight tonight, with La La Land and Manchester by the Sea remaining my virtual tie for #1 of the year, I have no problem with them participating in a revolving door of Best Picture wins with critics and awards circles for the next few months.

The Cahiers list is intriguing though, mainly because I've seen exactly one film on it but have been seeing trailers for a lot of the others in front of seemingly everything I have seen in the theatre recently.

I hope you post thoughts on Moonlight! It's my current #1 of the year.

Also, seeing The Neon Demon at #3 on the Cahiers du Cinema is more than satisfying.

[Spinal]

Best Supporting Actor
Mahershala Ali- Moonlight


Great choice.

[Dead & Messed Up]

And rightfully so.

Zootopia is Crash for children.

[Watashi]

I haven't seen Manchester yet, but this has to be the weakest year for Best Actor for awhile right? The only buzz I hear has been Affleck and... no one else. Maybe Denzel Washington.

Actress on the other hand is very very strong.

[Pop Trash]

Sight & Sound

http://www.bfi.org.uk/best-films-2016

[Dukefrukem]

Zootopia is Crash for children.

Never have I read a statement so incorrect since the quote in my signature.

[Henry Gale]

I haven't seen Manchester yet, but this has to be the weakest year for Best Actor for awhile right? The only buzz I hear has been Affleck and... no one else. Maybe Denzel Washington.

I think it's a case where, while all credit to Lonergan's writing and guiding directorial hand, Affleck is that film as it plays on screen. And the only scenes he's not in are carried fantastically by Hedges, who should be way more of a lock for Supporting than I think he is at the moment. As much as I love it, I don't think it will win Best Picture, but awarding someone who is in virtually every minute of its runtime will feel like a nice consolation prize.

Speaking of Hedges though, with him, Mahershala Ali, Michael Shannon, multiple Hell or High Water possibilities, and probably Neeson and/or whoever else for Silence.. Supporting Actor might be where the real, meaty competition is at.


Actress on the other hand is very very strong.

Three out of the three likely nominees I've seen (Stone, Adams, Negga) are very key components to films that brought me to tears, so I gotta agree.

Stone has the biggest, most transcendent, and beautifully gutting single scene though.


Sight & Sound

http://www.bfi.org.uk/best-films-2016

Ayyyy, my current Top 4 all make an appearance here too.

[Pop Trash]

Ayyyy, my current Top 4 all make an appearance here too.

I think they are overrating Certain Women a bit, but to each their own cinema.

[Pop Trash]

Hey DUKE, do Bostonians / New Englanders really speak with that "PAAK THE CAA IN THE HAAVAAD YAAD" accent? I've never been north of NYC. Just curious, because they lay it on pretty thick in Manchester by the Sea (and Good Will Hunting, which feels like a spiritual predecessor to Manchester).

I've had a few coworkers from Boston and they had relatively neutral accents.

[Henry Gale]

I think they are overrating Certain Women a bit, but to each their own cinema.

Oh I actually haven't even seen that yet, but looking forward to it.

I actually meant La La, Manchester, Moonlight and Linklater's. (Though I now realize Arrival might be in the middle of those in my actual ranking, and it's absent from their list.)

[Stay Puft]

Sight & Sound

http://www.bfi.org.uk/best-films-2016

Oh wow. Never thought I'd see the Serra make a list, nevermind a Top 10. That's awesome.

[Russ]

The annual list that I look forward to the most:

John Waters' Top 10 (https://www.artforum.com/inprint/issue=201610&id=64773)

[baby doll]

https://www.cahiersducinema.com/Top-Ten-2016.htmlBoy, they're really doubling down on Eurocentrism, aren't they? Even assuming The Woman Who Left hasn't opened in Paris yet, it still seems kind of scandalous to have a top ten where eight of the films were directed by Europeans (and all ten by white people). I don't know if I should be happy that Aquarius placed so high on the list or lament the fact that more adventurous and demanding South American films like Hermia & Helena and Kékzakállú got shut out.

[Dukefrukem]

Hey DUKE, do Bostonians / New Englanders really speak with that "PAAK THE CAA IN THE HAAVAAD YAAD" accent? I've never been north of NYC. Just curious, because they lay it on pretty thick in Manchester by the Sea (and Good Will Hunting, which feels like a spiritual predecessor to Manchester).

I've had a few coworkers from Boston and they had relatively neutral accents.

It's very very concentrated in certain areas. I grew up talking like that in the burbs, 30 miles outside of Boston, and as I grew up I never understood how it was possible because I thought it was a city thing. So there was a huge group of us kids, in a densely populated neighborhood who feed off that accent. I would say shit like: "that's wicked pissah" as a kid. I slowly started to train myself out of it by replacing "wicked" with "really" and by high school I thought I had absolved it. And then it started coming back again when I went to college in Boston, and I was around local kids from the south shore.

So the short answer is, yes, people definitely talk like that. From my experience, it's more concentrated in certain towns than others. The south shore more than the north. Not so much in New Hampshire or VT. And it's definitely present in Maine (where my family is from). I've also seen it as an eduation thing. The lower the education in a neighborhood, the more likely that accent is present.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but Manchester by the Sea (is really the name of the town in Massachusetts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester-by-the-Sea,_Massachusetts) in case no one is familiar). It's one of the most exclusive towns in the state next to martha's vineyard or Nantucket. I wouldn't expect ANYONE to speak like that because everyone who lives there is not a local. Those are CEOs of companies and people from out of state. It's more like Bar Harbor Maine size houses. 35,000 square foot homes that are people's SUMMER homes. Not year round homes.

[Henry Gale]

L.A. Film Critics:

Picture: Moonlight
Runner-up: La La Land

Director: Barry Jenkins, Moonlight
Runner-up: Damien Chazelle, La La Land

Actress: Isabelle Huppert, Elle and Things to Come
Runner-up: Rebecca Hall, Christine

Actor: Adam Driver, Paterson
Runner-up: Casey Affleck, Manchester by the Sea

Supporting actress: Lily Gladstone, Certain Women
Runner-up: Michelle Williams, Manchester by the Sea

Supporting actor: Mahershala Ali, Moonlight
Runner-up: Issey Ogata, Silence

Animated Film: Your Name
Runner-up: The Red Turtle

Foreign-Language Film: The Handmaiden
Runner-up: Toni Erdmann

Documentary/Non-Fiction: I Am Not Your Negro
Runner-up: O.J.: Made in America

Screenplay: Efthymis Filippou and Yorgos Lanthimos, The Lobster
Runner-up: Kenneth Lonergan, Manchester by the Sea

Editing: Bret Granato, Maya Mumma, Ben Sozanski, O.J.: Made in America
Runner-up: Tom Cross, La La Land

Production Design: Ryu Seong-hee, The Handmaiden
Runner-up: David Wasco, La La Land

Music score: Justin Hurwitz, Benj Pasek, Justin Paul, La La Land
Runner-up: Micah Levi, Jackie

Cinematography: James Laxton, Moonlight
Runner-up: Linus Sandgren, La La Land

Douglas Edwards Independent/Experimental Film/Video Prize: The Illinois Parables from writer-director Deborah Stratman

Next Generation: Trey Edward Shults, Krisha Fairchild, Krisha

Special Citation: Turner Classic Movies for preserving historic cinema and bringing it to a wider audience via FilmStruck.

Lifetime achievement: Shirley MacLaine

[Henry Gale]

Also, not sure where else to discuss this (the Late Night TV thread didn't feel right), but because it makes me very excited in ways I realize it won't for everyone:

Jimmy Kimmel will be hosting the Oscars.

[Spinal]

Well, at least we know Matt Damon will be getting lots of screen time.

[Henry Gale]

Well, at least we know Matt Damon will be getting lots of screen time.

Even more material since he'll be nominated for Best Picture as a producer for Manchester. Inevitable jokes about it only being good because he stepped away from directing and starring in it, etc.

EDIT: Also something just feels right about Kimmel hosting Oscars while Fallon hosts the Golden Globes. A nice upending of their usual statuses in late night.

[Winston*]

Cool to see Toni Erdmann love. That movie rules.

[Ezee E]

Cool to see Toni Erdmann love. That movie rules.

That's my bet to win foreign picture. It was loved at Telluride.

[Ivan Drago]

That's my bet to win foreign picture. It was loved at Telluride.

I'd love for A Man Called Ove to at least get a nom.

[baby doll]

That's my bet to win foreign picture. It was loved at Telluride.It might get a nomination, but it's not Holocausty enough to win.

[Pop Trash]

Holocausty

I think we are making progress as a society that this can finally be an adverb.

[Watashi]

Haha. I just realized the last two Oscar winners for Best Foreign Language Film (Ida and Son of Saul) were centered around the Holocaust.

[Lazlo]

https://vimeo.com/194508152

These are always so well done. The song for Weiner is an excellent choice.

[Ezee E]

Is there even a Holocausty movie this year? Probably is, I just can't think of one.

[Spinal]

Is there even a Holocausty movie this year? Probably is, I just can't think of one.

Here's the documentary shortlist (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/06/movies/oscars-2017-documentary-shortlist.html):

Cameraperson
Command and Control
The Eagle Huntress
Fire at Sea
Gleason
Hooligan Sparrow
I Am Not Your Negro
The Ivory Game
Life, Animated
O.J.: Made in America
13th
Tower
Weiner
The Witness
Zero Days

[Winston*]

Missing Tickled.

[TGM]

Golden Globe nominations:

Film

Best Picture, Drama
Hacksaw Ridge
Hell or High Water
Lion
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight

Best Picture, Comedy or Musical
20th Century Women
Deadpool
Florence Foster Jenkins
La La Land
Sing Street

Best Director
Damien Chazelle, La La Land
Tom Ford, Nocturnal Animals
Mel Gibson, Hacksaw Ridge
Barry Jenkins, Moonlight
Kenneth Lonergan, Manchester by the Sea
Advertisement

Best Actor, Drama
Casey Affleck, Manchester by the Sea
Joel Edgerton, Loving
Andrew Garfield, Hacksaw Ridge
Viggo Mortensen, Captain Fantastic
Denzel Washington, Fences

Best Actress, Drama
Amy Adams, Arrival
Jessica Chastain, Miss Sloane
Isabelle Huppert, Elle
Ruth Negga, Loving
Natalie Portman, Jackie

Best Actor, Comedy
Colin Farrell, The Lobster
Ryan Gosling, La La Land
Hugh Grant, Florence Foster Jenkins
Jonah Hill, War Dogs
Ryan Reynolds, Deadpool

Best Actress, Comedy
Annette Bening, 20th Century Women
Lily Collins, Rules Don't Apply
Hailee Steinfeld, The Edge of Seventeen
Emma Stone, La La Land
Meryl Streep, Florence Foster Jenkins

Best Supporting Actor
Mahershala Ali, Moonlight
Jeff Bridges, Hell or High Water
Simon Helberg, Florence Foster Jenkins
Dev Patel, Lion
Aaron Taylor Johsnon, Nocturnal Animals

Best Supporting Actress
Viola Davis, Fences
Naomie Harris, Moonlight
Nicole Kidman, Lion
Octavia Spencer, Hidden Figures
Michelle Williams, Manchester by the Sea

Best Screenplay
Damien Chazelle, La La Land
Tom Ford, Nocturnal Animals
Barry Jenkins, Moonlight
Kenneth Lonergan, Manchester by the Sea
Taylor Sheridan, Hell or High Water

Best Original Score
Moonlight
La La Land
Arrival
Lion
Hidden Figures

Best Original Song “Can't Stop the Feeling,” Trolls
“City of Stars,” La La Land
“Faith,” Sing
“Gold,” Gold
“How Far I’ll Go,” Moana

Best Animated Feature Film
Kubo and the Two Strings
Moana
My Life as a Zucchini
Sing
Zootopia

Best Foreign Language Film
Divines
Elle
Neruda
The Salesman
Toni Erdmann
Television

Best TV Series, Drama
The Crown
Game of Thrones
Stranger Things
This Is Us
Westworld

Best TV Series, Comedy/Musical
Atlanta
Blackish
Mozart in the Jungle
Transparent
Veep

Best TV Miniseries or Movie
American Crime
The Dresser
The Night Manager
The Night Of
The People vs. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story

Best Actor, Drama
Rami Malek, Mr. Robot
Bob Odenkirk, Better Call Saul
Matthew Rhys, The Americans
Liev Schreiber, Ray Donovan
Billy Bob Thornton, Goliath

Best Actress, Drama
Caitriona Balfe, Outlander
Claire Foy, The Crown
Keri Russell, The Americans
Winona Ryder, Stranger Things
Evan Rachel Wood, Westworld

Best Actor, Comedy
Anthony Anderson, Blackish
Gael Garcia Bernal, Mozart in the Jungle
Donald Glover, Atlanta
Nick Nolte, Graves
Jeffrey Tambor, Transparent

Best Actress, Comedy
Rachel Bloom, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Veep
Sarah Jessica Parker, Divorce
Issa Rae, Insecure
Gina Rodriguez, Jane the Virgin
Tracee Ellis Ross, Blackish

Best Supporting Actor
Sterling K. Brown, The People vs. O.J. Simpson
Hugh Laurie, The Night Manager
John Lithgow, The Crown
Christian Slater, Mr. Robot
John Travolta, The People vs. O.J. Simpson

Best Supporting Actress
Olivia Colman, The Night Manager
Lena Headey, Game of Thrones
Chrissy Metz, This Is Us
Mandy Moore, This Is Us
Thandie Newton, Westworld

Best Actor, Mini-Series or TV Movie
Riz Ahmed, The Night Of
Bryan Cranston, All the Way
Tom Hiddleston, The Night Manager
John Turturro, The Night Of
Courtney B. Vance, The People vs. O.J. Simpson

Best Actress, Mini-Series or TV Movie
Felicity Huffman, American Crime
Riley Keough, The Girlfriend Experience
Sarah Paulson, The People vs. O.J. Simpson
Charlotte Rampling, London Spy
Kerry Washington, Confirmation

[TGM]

Honestly, while there are certainly some discrepancies with those nominations, the fact that Deadpool walked away with both a best picture and best actor nomination is so cool that I'm not even gonna complain about anything. :p

[Gittes]

- I'm way behind on 2016 film viewings, so I can't comment on much there. However, hooray for Steinfeld for deservedly receiving a nomination. I admired the spry intelligence of her performance. That's a rather good movie.

- Why isn't Silence nominated for anything? Critics saw it a while ago, the embargo was lifted over the weekend, etc. Also, I know screeners of Paterson have been sent to critics, so why isn't that anywhere to be found here?

- Also, Tom Hiddleston for Best Actor?! Which performance were they watching? I found The Night Manager to be mostly mediocre. I mean, there were a few good aspects, but Hiddleston's contributions wore thin almost immediately. One of the most static performances I've come across in recent memory. It's spectral. His presence is inundated by sheepish smiles, so it seemed so flat and monotonous. I came away with very little sense of who the character was besides a handsome, scrupulous fellow who can lie well. But I suppose I'm an easy mark because I kept watching because of said handsomeness — of Hiddleston, the locales, and the scenery — along with some of the moderately engaging intrigue and some valuable thematic work.

- Very nice to see Riz Ahmed get a deserved nomination for his work in The Night Of. He was its best asset (Michael K. Williams and John Turturro were great, as well). Unfortunately, the show probably stumbled a bit too much en route to its finale. The premiere suggested a more sustainedly impressive narrative awaited us, but that never quite came to pass. Then again, we got a hint of its strain even in that first episode (the contrived approach to the pat-down at the police station stuck out like a sore thumb).

- Glad to see Atlanta get some recognition, too. It joins This Is Us (has anyone been watching this?) and Westworld in a group of nominated shows that have managed to achieve sizeable popularity while at the same time indulging in some strange, dexterous storytelling maneuvers.

- Julia Louis-Dreyfus for Veep: great actress, great show; the repeated nominations are very much justified.

- It's nice to see Odenkirk's performance in Better Call Saul get acknowledged again. I was worried about how he'd handle the demands of being the central protagonist in a serialized drama, but he has continued to surprise me. His approach to the expanded version of Saul isn't held back by much trepidation or clumsiness. He's built up some nice variations on what was once only a rakish mug, but which has now acquired a new, pathos-laden interest. Less surprising is the way the show has forged a very different path from Breaking Bad. In lesser hands, I suspect the temptation would have been to ape too many of the proven thrills of the previous show, but Gilligan and Gould have done a fine job of following the lead of other successful spinoffs that creatively leaned into their own difference (i.e., Frasier).

- Malek probably deserves the win more, though.

[Pop Trash]

AV Club

http://www.avclub.com/article/20-best-films-2016-247433

[Ivan Drago]

Cool to see Toni Erdmann love. That movie rules.

I've seen the trailer a lot at the arthouse theater near me, so I read the AV Club's write-up about it in their top 20 list. Now I'm even more excited for it.

Belated thoughts on the Golden Globes:

- Happy to see Sing Street nominated for Best Musical/Comedy, but why couldn't 'Drive It Like You Stole It' get nominated for Best Original Song?

- Captain Fantastic is fine, as was Viggo Mortenson, but not 'Best Actor' fine.

- There's something awesome about Colin Farrell's performance in a bizarro arthouse film and Ryan Reynolds' performance as a superhero getting nominated in the same category.

- Sure wish Warren Beatty got a Best Supporting Actor nom for Rules Don't Apply. His Howard Hughes is on par with Leo's.

- Okay, I'll watch The Crown.

- Okay, I'll also watch Westworld.

- The Night Of is perfectly acted and directed...but their awards will go to The People vs. OJ.

- Atlanta is also fantastic...but their awards will go to Transparent.

- I shouldn't care so much about what the Hollywood Foreign Press thinks about movies.

[Pop Trash]

Indie Wire's mammoth (200 ballots) critics poll:

http://www.indiewire.com/2016/12/best-movies-2016-critic-poll-results-1201757008/

[transmogrifier]

Based on that, it's been a pretty crappy year at the movies from the US. From blockbusters to Oscar bait to indies. Everything seems just a little... meh.

[Pop Trash]

Village Voice Film Poll

http://www.villagevoice.com/filmpoll

[Spinal]

Village Voice Film Poll

http://www.villagevoice.com/filmpoll

'Movie Everyone is Wrong About' is a weird category to tally. Because if something gets the most votes, it was probably the wrong answer.

[Melville]

Compilation of 456 critics' top 10 lists: https://criticstop10.com/
I've only seen 10 of the 50. Most keen to see Manchester by the Sea.

[Pop Trash]

'Movie Everyone is Wrong About' is a weird category to tally. Because if something gets the most votes, it was probably the wrong answer.

Plus, I can't tell if 'wrong' means overrated/underrated for some of these. The Neon Demon and Nocturnal Animals got a polarizing response from most critics I follow.

[TGM]

Golden Globe results:

Movies

Best Motion Picture - Drama
"Moonlight"

Best Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy
"La La Land"

Best Performance by an Actress in a Motion Picture - Drama
Isabelle Huppert - "Elle"

Best Performance by an Actor in a Motion Picture - Drama
Casey Affleck - "Manchester by the Sea"

Best Actor in a Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy
Ryan Gosling - "La La Land"

Best Actress in a Motion Picture - Musical or Comedy
Emma Stone - "La La Land"

Best Supporting Actor in a Motion Picture
Aaron Taylor-Johnson - "Nocturnal Animals"

Best Supporting Actress in a Motion Picture
Viola Davis - "Fences"

Best Animated Feature Film
"Zootopia"

Best Director
Damien Chazelle - "La La Land"

Best Screenplay
Damien Chazelle - "La La Land"

Best Original Score
"La La Land"

Best Original Song
"City of Stars" - "La La Land"

Best Foreign Language Film
"Elle" - (France)

TV

Best TV series - Drama
"The Crown"

Best performance by an Actor in a TV series - Drama
Billy Bob Thornton - "Goliath

Best performance by Actress in a TV series - Drama
Claire Foy - "The Crown"

Best TV series - Musical or Comedy
"Atlanta"

Best performance by an Actor in a TV series -- Musical or Comedy
Donald Glover - "Atlanta"

Best performance by an Actress in a TV series - Musical or Comedy
Tracee Ellis Ross -"black-ish"

Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
"The People v. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story"

Best Performance by an Actor in a Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Tom Hiddleston - "The Night Manager"

Best Performance by an Actress in a Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Olivia Colman - "The Night Manager"

Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Hugh Laurie - "The Night Manager"

Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television
Sarah Paulson - "The People v. O.J. Simpson: American Crime Story"

[TGM]

My thoughts:

Aaron Taylor-Johnson's an interesting pick for Best Supporting Actor. Figured Mahershala Ali had that on lock. Still rooting for Ali to take home the Oscar in that category, though.

Also kinda surprised that Natalie Portman didn't win in her category. Figured that, too, was supposed to be a lock.

YAY at Zootopia taking home Best Animated Feature. Really, anything else is just false.

YAY at wins for Viola Davis and Casey Affleck. VERY much deserved.

And a huge YAY at La La Land sweeping! (Though BOO at Deadpool going home empty handed.)

All in all, doesn't look like they did too bad a job this year.

[Peng]

Elle and especially Huppert are a HUGE surprise to me, but in the best way, even though I was championing Toni Erdmann for the former. I just didn't figure both of them will attract awards at all. Loved Portman in Jackie but Huppert is still my #1 in that category for me.

[Spinal]

Do people seriously think La La Land has a good screenplay?

[Ezee E]

Reading Twitter yesterday, and some of the bloggers get way too serious about La La Land sweeping.

The confusing thing is that I thought they liked the movie?

[Irish]

Ugh, Meryll.

Yay, Glover.

*nelson laugh* HBO.


Do people seriously think La La Land has a good screenplay?

It's the Globes man, the Globes. The star-fuckingest of starfucker award shows.

*deep inhale*

[TGM]

Do people seriously think La La Land has a good screenplay?

Very much so, yes.

[Pop Trash]

Do people seriously think La La Land has a good screenplay?

As opposed to bad? Yes.

[transmogrifier]

La La Land has a terrible screenplay. Makes sense it would win things.

[Henry Gale]

La La Land has a terrible screenplay. Makes sense it would win things.

I mean, no. But I do want you to elaborate.

If you're just talking about the dialogue and plot points / story beats, then okay, whatever, it's chipper and comedic in generally low stakes ways and it moves along in straightforward ways. But its screenplay does still entail everything from the original seed of the idea of the film and every other more specific one in it (whether you think they're remarkable or not), all of its broad narrative framework, all of its character content, and all the lovely subversive thematic anchoring in between. All Chazelle really had to do was screw up for himself to not translate it on screen properly as director, but he objectively did that well. As a hypothetical blueprint for what ended up on screen (that voters don't/can't read), it's all there to just let the songs, performances and visuals walk perfectly, comfortably through it. I would be interested to know how much of the script he changed before and after the songs were written though.

Either way, even though it is my #1 of the year, I do still feel like Manchester or Moonlight (or Arrival, un-nominated in this instance) should win whatever Screenplay accolades instead. It was the one award of its "sweep" I did question simply because its competition felt so much stronger.

[transmogrifier]

I mean, no. But I do want you to elaborate.

If you're just talking about the dialogue and plot points / story beats, then okay, whatever, it's chipper and comedic in generally low stakes ways and it moves along in straightforward ways. But its screenplay does still entail everything from the original seed of the idea of the film and every other more specific one in it (whether you think they're remarkable or not), all of its broad narrative framework, all of its character content, and all the lovely subversive thematic anchoring in between.

There are simply too many things that I dislike about the screenplay to list them all here. (I don't want to waste time on movies I don't like this year. I want to try and go in more detail on the positives of movies I like.) I have mentioned some of my objections elsewhere. For example, the five year jump is a total cheat that is only done so that the ending montage can get all nostalgic about a half-told story by not letting the audience take sides. The content of the one-woman play is NEVER shown and only used as a cheap way to create a argument - I thought the photoshoot was next Thursday (fuck me! That is sub-multicam sitcom level plotting) - and provide a deus ex machina (oh there was some random woman in the audience who liked it, despite the manipulation of having two random characters diss it immediately after it - better not actually SHOW any of it, lest the movie audience start actually judging the characters on their actual artistic output rather than on their cardboard representations of Chazelle's shallow view of the artistic process). The final montage makes no sense - it has to be from Stone's POV, given that it re-remembers what she had done that night, but literally the only thing that is functionally different in terms of re-imaging the past is that Gosling doesn't join the band... he still ends up with his own club, and Stone still ends up famous, so the whole path to artistic success is rendered moot. So the only real difference is that she has them still together - but before the time jump, they WERE still together. So....what exactly is the point? That if you join a band that your girlfriend doesn't approve of, she has no choice but to leave you? Or was it that you jumped ahead five years to simply to cheat a fake sad ending? Add in the two musical numbers at the start that promise an ensemble enterprise before the film pares everything down to the two main drips, the fact that their actual relationship (you know, from the time the finally get together until they start arguing, the time that the ending mythologizes is actually burnt through in about five minutes in the middle of the movie - yes, the film basically celebrates your typical boring relationship montage from a million shitty romance movies...

Okay, I have to stop. It is a terrible screenplay. The actors and the music save it.

[Spinal]

My big issue with the screenplay is vagueness and lack of specificity. We spend most of our time with characters that are poorly defined, engaging in experiences that seem drawn from a first draft brainstorming session. Who are these people beyond the fact that they are embodied by Stone and Gosling? It's difficult to say and more difficult to care. That, and corny scenes like the aforementioned stage show opening gone wrong, the cheap shot at 80s pop music (novel observation!) and the condescending jazz lecture.

Other films this year covered the same subject matter with more depth and artistry. You only need to see Don't Think Twice to understand how shallow La La Land's grasp on the artistic process is. Only need to see Moonlight to understand how shallow it's grasp on love is. Only need to see Sing Street to see how shallow it is in exploring the circumstances that form artistic impulse.

[Watashi]

Crazy to think that Deadpool has a real possible shot to get a Best Picture nomination.

[Henry Gale]

DGA

OUTSTANDING DIRECTORIAL ACHIEVEMENT IN FEATURE FILM

Damien Chazelle, La La Land
Garth Davis, Lion
Barry Jenkins, Moonlight
Kenneth Lonergan, Manchester by the Sea
Denis Villeneuve, Arrival

OUTSTANDING DIRECTORIAL ACHIEVEMENT OF A FIRST-TIME FEATURE FILM DIRECTOR

Kelly Fremon Craig, The Edge of Seventeen
Garth Davis, Lion
Tim Miller, Deadpool
Nate Parker, The Birth of a Nation
Dan Trachtenberg, 10 Cloverfield Lane



Crazy to think that Deadpool has a real possible shot to get a Best Picture nomination.

The part of me that really likes the idea of a February-released, raunchy, ultra-violent, (ostensibly) iconoclastic comic book movie getting this sort of awards season attention is quickly cancelled out by remembering just how much I dislike it as a movie.

[Spinal]

I liked Deadpool just fine. I thought it did some clever things with regards to pacing the action and the origin story and intermingling the two. That said, I do think that people tend to overvalue "meta". People always seem to be blown away by self-referentiality, as if it's something we haven't seen before.

[Winston*]

I liked Deadpool just fine. I thought it did some clever things with regards to pacing the action and the origin story and intermingling the two. That said, I do think that people tend to overvalue "meta". People always seem to be blown away by self-referentiality, as if it's something we haven't seen before.

Also, Iron Man 3 did meta in a funnier and more artful way. That should've been nominated for an Oscar.

Think these Deadpool nominations are a fairly transparent attempt at relevance.

[Winston*]

Does anyone remember this silent film about old Hollywood from a few years ago? It was a bit like Singing in the Rain.

[Lazlo]

Yeah, I found the meta stuff and the amount they reveled in being able to be crude to be very tiresome.

[Ezee E]

Does anyone remember this silent film about old Hollywood from a few years ago? It was a bit like Singing in the Rain.

The Artist.

[Winston*]

The Artist.

Was being facetious. Just saying that's La La Land in 5 years.

[Idioteque Stalker]

La La Land is better but it suffers from the same reliance on homage.

[Ezee E]

Was being facetious. Just saying that's La La Land in 5 years.

Whoops.

I guess I disagree. Totally different demographics as far as audiences go.

La La Land taps into more modern sensibilities whereas The Artist, even though I found it enjoyable, is almost just a synopsis of silent films. La La Land's final scene, the audition, and chemistry of Stone and Gosling can be related on a whole lot more. There are characters there. The Artist, I don't really remember about the people at play there. Best thing about The Artist was that dog. Definitely a lot of homage, but I think the movie can (and has) been enjoyed by many on its own merit. The Artist, I would find it difficult for people to have wanted to see it without having an understanding of silent movies.

For Deadpool, outside of some self-reference and R-Rated jokes, I fail to see how it's any different than any other Marvel origin movie. I guess Ryan Reynolds is almost as interesting as Downey and Jackman were in their origin movies. But the sudden rise of it's award nominations is the weirdest part of the awards year to me.

[DavidSeven]

The Artist.


Was being facetious. Just saying that's La La Land in 5 years.

Disagree. Even if you don't think the song and dance measures up, La La Land has other cinematic merits that will be appreciated as time goes on. This will be especially true if Chazelle builds an interesting career for himself, which I expect will be the case based on Whiplash and La La Land. Anecdotally, I know many who aren't tapped into the "history" of musicals who were blown away by this.

To me, The Artist was not interesting cinematically as more than a tribute and offers little value to those who don't possess a deeper appreciation for film history. Nothing about it suggested that Hazanavicius would make anything interesting when operating outside of that mode.

[TGM]

The Artist was mostly fine, if pretty instantly forgettable when I saw it, and nothing I really felt any desire to return to. Meanwhile, La La Land I've already seen 4 times, and could easily see over and over again still. It has infectiously latched onto me, to where it's not only easily my favorite of the year, I'm already confident considering it among my personal top 3 of the decade so far. The Artist was fine, I thought that then, and I suppose on reflection I still think that now, but La La Land struck a chord with me that very few movies do. I have a hard time believing it'll be left forgotten 5 years from now, at least not from me.

[Pop Trash]

I haven't met anyone irl that didn't love La La Land. Most of the backlash has been from online critical discussions (because of course).

[Watashi]

Eh, I've met a few.

I understand why La La Land is doing gangbusters. Hollywood hasn't had a mainstream original musical in a long time, so people immediately latch on to something fresh and new. It's very "Musical for Beginners" that it really doesn't take any risks in its choreography or narrative. Not to say many classical Hollywood musical of yesteryear feature complex plots, but they go all out in their musical numbers. I agree with trans that these story beats are so predictable and the "drama" that is inserted is emotionally flat. The whole missing out Stone's play due to a unforeseen photoshoot is so fucking lazy.

I've never seen a musical so afraid to be a musical. Stop whispering and fucking sing.

[Winston*]

I haven't met anyone irl that didn't love La La Land. Most of the backlash has been from online critical discussions (because of course).

I took my mum to it who is far from a film buff and she didn't like it. Didn't believe the characters. I don't think the films biggest problems are related to trainspotting film geekery.

To each their own though. I just have trouble squaring the fairly average film I saw with the kind of overwhelming love it is is receiving. To me a good comparison is Once, an original musical that covers similar themes. The characters in that one are so much more well defined, the dramatic arc is more convincing and the songs are more 1000 times more memorable.

[Spinal]

The Artist is better at being a silent film than La La Land is at being a musical.

[dreamdead]

Just finished rewatching a section of The Story of Film and I couldn't help notice that there was more ingenuity in everything that Moulin Rouge had onscreen than in La La Land. And I say that as someone who finds the latter film amiable enough. I note that Once also hits every quality note in terms of reconciling character type with sincerity even when originality isn't always there.

It just seems that every decade Hollywood decides that the musical can't just be a thing that always exists but needs to be lavished with praise and awards. Seriously, Anna Kendrick could have such a full career doing one of these every two years. Stop treating a genre as something in need of resuscitation, even if Hollywood rather than Indiewood abandons the genre.

[Idioteque Stalker]

The Artist is better at being a silent film than La La Land is at being a musical.

Not sure how exactly this was intended, but I just cracked up.

[Spinal]

I'll take it!

[transmogrifier]

Once is fifty times the movie La La Land is. I mean, they aren't even in the same ballpark.

[Ezee E]

Didn't like Once. But now I don't remember it either.

[DavidSeven]

Not sure why anyone would think La La Land's praise is based on some kind of genre novelty factor. There are musical films released every year with big name actors. Some get excellent reviews, some get awful reviews. It's not 1999 anymore. There have been countless musicals that have been derived from a variety of sources (including books and original work) since then.

[Watashi]

Not sure why anyone would think La La Land's praise is based on some kind of genre novelty factor. There are musical films released every year with big name actors. Some get excellent reviews, some get awful reviews. It's not 1999 anymore. There have been countless musicals that have been derived from a variety of sources (including books and original work) since then.

Uh, what? Name another mainstream star-studded musical based on an original work from the past 15 years that's not animated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_films_by_year# 2010s

The only ones that can maybe compete with La La Land are Pitch Perfect and Enchanted.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Great call with Enchanted, but if Pitch Perfect counts then Moulin Rouge should count too.

[Watashi]

Oh yeah, Moulin Rouge, but that was a remake and almost none of the songs are original.

I'll probably say The Muppets (even if it's based on an existing property) has the best original musical numbers of this century.

[Watashi]

I would say the closest thing we have gotten to a film like La La Land was Everybody Says I Love You in 1996.

[TGM]

Not sure why anyone would think La La Land's praise is based on some kind of genre novelty factor. There are musical films released every year with big name actors. Some get excellent reviews, some get awful reviews. It's not 1999 anymore. There have been countless musicals that have been derived from a variety of sources (including books and original work) since then.

Thank you!


Uh, what? Name another mainstream star-studded musical based on an original work from the past 15 years that's not animated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_films_by_year# 2010s

The only ones that can maybe compete with La La Land are Pitch Perfect and Enchanted.

He mentioned that musicals come out every year, and they do. Hell, this year alone I've seen three of them. No, they weren't all necessarily star-studded or live action even, but then, why do we have to be so specific when talking about such success within the musical genre, though? Because that's a pretty weak argument being presenting if it only holds up with these very specific parameters applied to it.

Maybe, and I know this is a wild thought, but just maybe, the film actually is just that good? Maybe it's the craft of the filmmaking that we liked, or the musical numbers, or the overriding themes, or the charisma of the actors. Or maybe it's the full package of all of that and so much more that affected us so. After all, you can condescendingly try to sit us down explain to myself and all of the others who adored this movie as to why it could possibly be that we apparently liked it, or you can actually listen to the reasons that we have expressed ourselves, whether it be on this forum or elsewhere, and actually accept that maybe it all really just is precisely what we've said, and that our disagreement on the issue is just a matter of taste. I accept that you and others didn't like it, and you've explained as to why that is, and that's fine. I can see some of the points being brought up as perfectly valid and just not bothering me, and others I disagree with entirely. But don't come in here trying to talk down to myself or others like we're mindless idiots for liking the movie, as if doing so is some sort of inherent fault on our end and that it can only be because of some sort of specific condition that it could even be possible for so many to love and enjoy the movie like they do, and it couldn't possibly be because we actually found a lot to grasp onto and appreciate about a movie based on its own merits that you just happened to not like.

I didn't like The Tree of Life, but I completely understand why people do, and how the movie could touch them in a way that it didn't with me, and I get why it received the recognition that it did when it came out. And I understand this because I listened to what those who liked it were saying about it. But just because I still personally didn't like it doesn't mean it's actually just a garbage movie that the masses were too dumb to see its faults with, and that they just latched on to this, that, and the other thing to try and desperately hold it up onto some sort of ridiculous pedestal. It just means that we have a difference in taste and a difference of opinion, and the same applies here with the movie in question now. And while you saw one thing with your viewing experience, we were able to look beyond any given shortcomings and be swept away by a wonderful cinematic experience. And again, you'd know this if you actually listened, rather than trying to lecture us on how it could possibly be that we could come to like such a movie that you just happened to not.

Musicals do come out every year. Maybe not ones that only fit your very specific parameters, but they still do all the same. But the ones that stand out as especially exceptional will go praised, while the rest are forgotten. This isn't something exclusive to musicals. How many comic book films come out in a year? Yet while most go forgotten, the ones that actually raise the bar still stand out and go noticed all the same, as was the case when the first Avengers released, or more recently, Guardians of the Galaxy, and apparently this year with Deadpool. And no, while there aren't as many musicals released as there are comic book films, people aren't loving this one just because it's a new original musical. It's because it's an exceptional movie first, for all of the reasons that have been expressed ad nauseam, and also happens to be a musical on top of all that as well.

[DavidSeven]

Uh, what? Name another mainstream star-studded musical based on an original work from the past 15 years that's not animated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_films_by_year# 2010s

The only ones that can maybe compete with La La Land are Pitch Perfect and Enchanted.

Translation: "Name all the movies that fit within this arbitrarily tight criteria with additional qualifiers, except the ones that prove your point and that I am excluding for no reason at all."?

TGM covered everything I was going to say and did it better than I was going to. Point wasn't that we see original live-action musicals every year. It's that there has been proliferation of filmed musicals as a whole from a variety of sources, including some original works. We're seeing quite a bit of it on TV now, too. There's been a significant resurgence of popularity in original animated musicals, as well.

Of course, La La Land feels original in its own right, and that is part of its appeal. But these blanket dismissals of people's praise for the film as being nothing more than, "oh my god, it's that time of decade to rejuvenate the musical!" are weak. My point is that making musicals right now is getting old-hat, so that is not going to be the reason a film gets praise. Yeah, I get it, the movie isn't for everyone, especially those who have some pretty specific criterion for what a movie-musical should look and sound like. But let's avoid claiming that those who "like" it are just trying to advance some kind of agenda. To me, it is just as amazing that someone could look at the shots and cutting in this film and come away saying, "meh, Gosling sang a little too soft. Overrated!"

[Idioteque Stalker]

Oh yeah, Moulin Rouge, but that was a remake and almost none of the songs are original.

I thought I remembered most of the songs in Pitch Perfect being new arrangements of older songs, kind of like Glee--and in that way kind of like Moulin Rouge as well. Like The Sign by Ace of Base and stuff like that.

[Watashi]

Yeah, musicals come out every year, but most them are animated or based on a preexisting stage show. There's no "genre novelty" involved with these musicals because we know what we are getting into. However, it's very rare for a musical featuring original songs and choreography to made in this current era with big stars (which is a qualifier you mentioned). Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling are two of the biggest stars now. If you look at the other musicals made in the recent years, you don't come close. I think this fresh take on old Hollywood musicals is something a lot of moviegoers latch on to and praise for something they don't see that much (especially for the average moviegoer). However, I never said that you, DavidSeven, were guilty of this.

The film is very well-made and I'm not faulting Chazelle for his craft. However as a product of its genre, the musical numbers are just not that good are not even choreographed that well given the superior films it homages to. That's my biggest qualm.

[transmogrifier]

I would say the closest thing we have gotten to a film like La La Land was Everybody Says I Love You in 1996.

Love that movie.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I agree that Everyone Says I Love You is very similar in spirit to La La Land, but it doesn't seem like fair comparison either because it doesn't feature original music.

[Peng]

I find it a bit icky to get vaguely dismissive in presumption about people's reactions that just *happen* to be the ones you don't share with, especially when actual positive thoughts don't really reflect it that much. I feel like this attitude, if reversed in stance, isn't that far a step above something like "you're too dead inside".

[Idioteque Stalker]

Moonlight and Loving are now adapted screenplays according to the Academy. Sure makes it easier to create my own adapted screenplay ballot!

[Ezee E]

Yeah, Moonlight is based on a play. Don't see how at all that qualified for original screenplay in other awards. I think the movie even credits as such.

[Ezee E]

Random memory that came back to me after this discussion:

I forget if I tweeted, wrote, or just talked about it. But I definitely remember having the thought about how comparing La La Land to the best musicals of all time is a bit unfair.

"It's not as good as Singin in the Rain or Fred Astaire." Well, okay, but the fact that it's being compared to the best musicals of all time means something at least.

Anyway, I can't wait to read people analyze and write essays on that final scene over the next few years. That piece is as good as anything I've ever seen.

[Henry Gale]

Yeah, Moonlight is based on a play. Don't see how at all that qualified for original screenplay in other awards. I think the movie even credits as such.

I think the "Original" aspect has to do with the fact that the play was never produced so Jenkins' script is technically the first public (and maybe copyrighted) version of the story.

[Ezee E]

I think the "Original" aspect has to do with the fact that the play was never produced so Jenkins' script is technically the first public (and maybe copyrighted) version of the story.

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

[Pop Trash]

Moulin Rouge is trash and had fucking terrible editing. Once is good but had terrible cinematography. La La Land is clearly better than either.

[transmogrifier]

Moulin Rouge is trash and had fucking terrible editing. Once is good but had terrible cinematography. La La Land is clearly better than either.

As an editor I'm perturbed by the fact that there appears to be a completely new definition of "clearly" floating around out there.....

[Spinal]

Moulin Rouge is trash and had fucking terrible editing. Once is good but had terrible cinematography. La La Land is clearly better than either.

I guess it depends on what you value. La La Land has good editing and cinematography, but to what end? It's empty inside.

The cinematography for Once is appropriate for the overall feel of the film. It has richly drawn characters, a gripping scenario, and a knowing feel for atmosphere and how human beings interact. La La Land has learned how people interact by watching other movies.

[baby doll]

La La Land has learned how people interact by watching other movies.Couldn't you say the same about most people in real life?

[Ezee E]

I don't know that I've actually watched Moulin Rouge from beginning to end in one sitting.

I like the movie but it's hard for me to stick with it the full length.

[Ezee E]

I don't know that I've actually watched Moulin Rouge from beginning to end in one sitting.

I like the movie but it's hard for me to stick with it the full length.

[Winston*]

Couldn't you say the same about most people in real life?

Most people on here maybe.

[transmogrifier]

Couldn't you say the same about most people in real life?

No, I don't think so.

[Pop Trash]

Reverse Shot's Hatefest 2016. Shockingly La La Land isn't on it.

http://reverseshot.org/series/entry/2298/offenses_of_2016

[baby doll]

Reverse Shot's Hatefest 2016. Shockingly La La Land isn't on it.

http://reverseshot.org/series/entry/2298/offenses_of_2016I stopped reading after the writer claimed Very Bad Things was released in November. Everybody knows it came out the last weekend of August. Hire a fucking a fact checker, you amateurs.

[Lazlo]

I stopped reading after the writer claimed Very Bad Things was released in November. Everybody knows it came out the last weekend of August. Hire a fucking a fact checker, you amateurs.

What? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124198/releaseinfo)

[baby doll]

What? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124198/releaseinfo)Very strange. Box Office Mojo also lists a November release. Did it get an earlier release in Canada, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

[Mr. McGibblets]

Reverse Shot's Hatefest 2016. Shockingly La La Land isn't on it.

http://reverseshot.org/series/entry/2298/offenses_of_2016
I don't get why they go after movies like Bad Moms (which is terrible) and Joshy. You might as well list Suicide Squad.

[Lazlo]

Very strange. Box Office Mojo also lists a November release. Did it get an earlier release in Canada, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

Dunno, beyond it apparently playing at TIFF. I distinctly remember it being out around American Thanksgiving.