The Neon Demon (Nicolas Winding Refn)

[TGM]

THE NEON DEMON

Director: Nicolas Winding Refn

imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1974419/?ref_=nv_sr_1)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkY4zO0WsAES5tS.jpg

[TGM]

So yeah, this was definitely more Only God Forgives than it was Drive, but I think I liked it a lot more than OGF? Even though I'm pretty sure that I didn't quite understand all of it? lol, in any event, this is one where I'll definitely be looking forward to reading and watching people's dissections on it. :p

[Mal]

This is an absolutely fucking beautiful and incredibly constructed piece of trash. Visuals alone make me want to recommend it to anyone who likes film despite moments that made question why I was still in the theater and hadn't yet walked out. Satisfying, but Refn's lack of subtlety is once again his undoing.

edit: retracting my trash comment. this movie is nuts and I think it knows it.

[Skitch]

Even a bad NWR movie is better than most things in the world. Looking forward to this.

[number8]

Millennial Showgirls. I mean that as high praise.

[number8]

Also the Saint Lauren parody monogram in the opening credits is one of the most auteur things I've seen a filmmaker do.

[Dukefrukem]

If it's more like Only God Forgives than Drive, this is not a good movie.

[TGM]

If it's more like Only God Forgives than Drive, this is not a good movie.

Not an accurate statement in the least. :P

[TGM]

So this is another movie that I haven't really been able to stop thinking about since seeing it, and so I decided to check it out again, seeing as it's its last night in theaters here. And, yeah, a second viewing definitely helped me fully appreciate this one. Absolutely beautiful filmmaking, this one has grown to be one of my favorites of the year so far.

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl4BRd4_LEE

[dreamdead]

This is one of the most bewildering viewing experiences for me in some time. There exists such emphasized dramatic pauses between every line reading in the first 50 minutes that it becomes almost comical. The artificiality of the whole affair is overplayed, and if Refn is trying to play with Showgirls's idea that the untalented are equally viable performers, then maybe I can accept the conceit of DRAMA that underscores every action. There's never a clear sense of whether Fanning is legitimately talented or if it's just a body type--and while that blurring might be intentional, it needs to say about that blurring.

That said, so much of this film plays like Mulholland Dr.-lite, but it lacks the finesse and, indeed, the humor, that's ingrained in Lynch's film to help it achieve the absurdism elsewhere. The crosscutting masturbation sequence played like the most obvious juvenilia put on screen. And while Fanning's fate is interestingly conveyed, everything in the coda was ART writ large.

When this was in the theatres I was remiss that I chose to see Finding Dory over this. Now I'm not so sure I made the wrong choice.

I'd be excited to see where Refn goes next if Refn is anchored to someone else's story to reign in his worst tendencies. He's still an amazing director. But this is vapid and annoying to the extreme.

[Pop Trash]

I enjoyed it. Probably falls between Mulholland Dr and Showgirls for me on the spectrum. Has Refn ever mentioned Kenneth Anger as an influence? Because I can totally see that. I know he's a big Jodorowsky fan. Probably Brian De Palma, too.

[Irish]

Voted nay even though I genuinely enjoyed about half of it because the entire climax felt like an afterthought.

Random thoughts:

- I wouldn't call Refn a great filmmaker, because filmmaking lives in camera moves and edits. Refn cares less about that than he does perfect compositions, and Neon Demon is a flip book of 150,000 perfectly composed still photographs.

- At this point, I think it's a mistake to look for any meaning, deep over otherwise, in this guy's work. His films have a "frustrated art director at Los Angeles Magazine" quality to them. That isn't necessarily bad, but who looks for subtext in those pages?

- The Showgirls comparison is misguided. To make it, you have to believe it's sensible to contrast Joe Eszterhas agains Refn & Co. Refn is careful to the point of being anal, too, so you'd have to believe he'd intentionally make a performatively bad movie for some larger purpose (something I never thought even Ezterhas was capable of).

- The other thing I've noticed: Refn, as "filmmaker," tends to choose one technique per film and stick to it. In Drive, he was all about wide angle lenses. In Neon Demon, it's tracking shots.

[TGM]

Meanwhile, this has silently slipped into my #1 spot for the year. I sorta love every single thing about this movie.

[Irish]

Meanwhile, this has silently slipped into my #1 spot for the year. I sorta love every single thing about this movie.

Honestly for the first hour and a half I kept shaking my head in admiration and disbelief and going, "Sheeeeeeeesh, dude, goddamn" because every shot was so beautiful. I felt like I could have pulled any frame down from the screen, hung it on the wall, and had a piece of wonder in my living room.

So I enjoyed it on that level -- as if it were a museum piece.

[TGM]

Honestly for the first hour and a half I kept shaking my head in admiration and disbelief and going, "Sheeeeeeeesh, dude, goddamn" because every shot was so beautiful. I felt like I could have pulled any frame down from the screen, hung it on the wall, and had a piece of wonder in my living room.

So I enjoyed it on that level -- as if it were a museum piece.

That's partly why I think the movie works so well on the whole, though. Because considering the subject matter, the fact that so much of this movie is style over substance actually really compliments the film in a way that doesn't always work out in other such "style over substance" sorta films. I don't disagree with you when you say that there's no point looking for too much deeper meaning in this film, as upon reflection, it really is pretty surface level stuff. (I know I expressed confusion earlier in the thread, like I was digging for something deeper there, but a couple revisits and some mulling over really showed me that, no, it's all pretty much right there staring you in the face, lol.) But this is precisely the sorta trashy movie that filmed in a more traditional manner (or really, any other way at all) would easily go discarded and forgotten, but Refn's execution of style and precision that goes hand in hand with the topic matter of the film itself elevates it to a level that other similar trashy films can't even fathom of attaining. This movie is respectable trash, and hearing the director talk about it only makes me appreciate it and what he was trying to achieve with this movie all the more, and I fucking loved every second of it. XD

[Ezee E]

Refn continues to be the most frustrating director out there, because he's so good at constructing images and potential storylines, but at the same time, gets too caught up in his own images. This would play better at background imagery at a bar or as an art show rather than an actual movie.

I'm totally open to people loving this movie, but it took me four sit-downs to watch the whole thing, and even then I was squirming around. If I were in the theater, I may very well have walked out.

Don't know if he'll ever match Drive.

[Pop Trash]

If I were in the theater, I may very well have walked out.


I dunno, I saw it in the theater and rather loved the immersive audio / visual experience (even if I don't exactly love the film overall). I do have a high threshold for directors that seem to smuggle in style from experimental filmmakers and, like I said before, I suspect Refn is a big Kenneth Anger fan.

[Melville]

I suspect Refn is a big Kenneth Anger fan.
The scorpion jacket in Drive would suggest that.

[Grouchy]

I might have to sit on this and maybe even watch it again, but I thought this was a goddamn masterpiece. The Showgirls comparison is apt as far as what kind of world it's subtly satirizing, but I think you guys are mistaken when you look for "deeper meanings". It's not a thesis film. It's more akin to early Dario Argento on drugs. What I've just seen is a strange, subversive Horror film about cannibalism with some really quirky humor. Its descent into pure madness is more surprising and well set up than in any other film I can recall right now.

It's funny that I found myself in the minority in the Jackie thread because I apparently wasn't hip to its dreamlike qualities while finding the dramatic insight into Jaqueline's head kind of bleh. But I had no problems with this species of dream. I'll have a hard time forgetting 80% of the scenes in Neon Demon.

[Spinal]

I suppose I can understand appreciating this purely on the level of style. There's some pretty compositions. But as a narrative, this is one of the more inane things I've seen in recent memory. Man, I feel like Showgirls had a more sophisticated take on competitive jealousies among hot, young women.

[Milky Joe]

This movie is about cannibalism, not competitive jealousies, lol.

[Grouchy]

This movie is about cannibalism, not competitive jealousies, lol.
Exactly.

[Spinal]

You guys actually think this movie is literally about cannibalism?

[TGM]

In the 2 years since this released, I'm pretty sure this has actually slipped past La La Land as my favorite from 2016. It's certainly become my favorite from Refn at least.

[Irish]

This movie is about cannibalism, not competitive jealousies, lol.

Exactly.

You guys actually think this movie is literally about cannibalism?

https://i.imgur.com/BxEanPx.gif

[Ezee E]

I absolutely love the score (own the vinyl) and the cinematography. But good god, the movie is still pretty awful and close to embarassing-level to recommend to anyone.

[Milky Joe]

The image is the thing. Yes this movie is literally about cannibalism. You really think Refn wanted to make a movie 'about' anything–especially one presenting some 'sophisticated take' on competitive jealousies in the LA fashion world? I don't think you know how he works.

[transmogrifier]

One of those films where a brief synopsis of the premise and the trailer made me realize that I never want to watch it. I have a pretty low tolerance for psychological dissolution movies filmed in a garish style.

[TGM]

I absolutely love the score (own the vinyl) and the cinematography. But good god, the movie is still pretty awful and close to embarassing-level to recommend to anyone.

Oh believe me, I usually preface my admiration for it woth a disclaimer that I can't exactly recommend it to most people. Not until I've gotten to know someone well enough to know for sure that it'll be right up their alley at least. Otherwise, yeah, approach with caution, I readily admit this one isn't for everyone. :p

[Irish]

I like this movie a little more every time TGM talks about it.

[Spinal]

The image is the thing. Yes this movie is literally about cannibalism. You really think Refn wanted to make a movie 'about' anything–especially one presenting some 'sophisticated take' on competitive jealousies in the LA fashion world? I don't think you know how he works.

I don't think you know how metaphor works.

[Spinal]

In Refn's own words:

"I wanted to make a film about beauty, and the power of it. If you go through our history, our culture, our mythology, beauty has always been a very dominating factor in our culture. I have two daughters, so I read a lot of fairy tales and beauty is very much a common definition of women. And their power over men is strong. But, with the invention of the fitness centre, physical strength lost a lot of its importance but beauty remained. Beauty is like a new class system. The world is so obsessed with beauty, it has been for the last 2,000 years, it’s the one stock that’s never gone down, the one stock that’s never gone out of fashion. The longevity of beauty has continued to shrink. It's becoming younger and younger, so, eventually, it will always feed on itself, don’t you think?"

[Grouchy]

Yeah. The movie gets better (if that's even possible) when you read about the myth of Narcissus and how it relates to the Refn's imagery. And yeah, it is about cannibalism. It's not a coincidence that that blurb by Refn contains the word "feed".

[Spinal]

It's not a coincidence that that blurb by Refn contains the word "feed".

Right. Because cannibalism is the metaphor, not the subject.

[transmogrifier]

Right. Because cannibalism is the metaphor, not the subject.

Come on, we all know Animal Farm is about animal husbandry. Don't try to deny it.

[Grouchy]

Right. Because cannibalism is the metaphor, not the subject.
I fully get that. But when you say the film is about "competitive jealousies among hot, young women" you're not giving either metaphor or subtext its due credit.

[Yxklyx]

If it's more like Only God Forgives than Drive, this is not a good movie.

I'll be watching this soon and I preferred Only God Forgives to Drive. I can't recall a scene from the latter.

[StuSmallz]

I'll be watching this soon and I preferred Only God Forgives to Drive. I can't recall a scene from the latter.Not even this one?:


https://youtu.be/0LZh0nrqvIU

[Skitch]

I didn't have high expectations for this after OGF, and because its sold as about modeling, but....I dug it. At least better than OGF (currently). It was interesting to watch at a time when I've been discussing The American with baby doll and he made some legit points about style v substance v content. Still trying to figure out Refn. This film was super interesting in that context. For first half I'm thinking this is the premier example of style over substance. Its gorgeous....and vapid. But then it shifts and shifts and shifts. (Here come the initial gut thoughts, dont hold me to em). It doesnt really gain any real substantial depth...but then makes me think...Refn seems to do things on purpose. So he must know how obviously surface this is to the point hes doing it on purpose, so perhaps that's his point.

Sidenote: I know Keanu isnt respected as an all time actor, but who else can go from being a blockbuster action star to a scumbag motel pedophile pimp back to mainstream star without batting an eye? Somewhere in there he was a cannibal cult leader...respect.

[TGM]

I loved Keanu in this. I believe I ranked it among my favorite performances from that year. Glad you dug this one. :cool:

[Irish]

Keanu can be very good in specific instances ("Parenthood," "Bill & Ted," "My Own Private Idaho," "Man of Tai Chi") and yeah he's great here.

[Skitch]

I didn't like A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night or whatever its called, but The Bad Batch was interesting. As was Keanu in it.

[Irish]

I didn't like A Girl Walks Home Alone At Night or whatever its called, but The Bad Batch was interesting. As was Keanu in it.

Yeah, totally! I forgot he was in that --- and remembering it now, it took me several minutes to recognize him in the role.