Match Cut Director Consensus -- Robert Rodriguez

[Ezee E]

Alrighty, so we're on to week five of the consensus. PLEASE review the rules and information contained in the main thread:

Results & Rules (http://match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=426)

Week Five: Robert Rodriguez
http://z.about.com/d/movies/1/0/E/3/P/grindhouseprem56.jpg

[Watashi]

Desperado - 6
From Dusk Till Dawn - 7.5
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 4.5
Sin City - 7
The Adventures of Shark Boy and Lava Girl - 1
Planet Terror - 6.5

[Ezee E]

El Mariachi - 4
Desperado - 7
From Dusk Till Dawn - 8.5
Once Upon A Time In Mexico - 6
Sin City - 7.5
Planet Terror - 8.5

[Raiders]

1. El Mariachi (1992) 6.0
2. Desperado (1995) 6.5
3. From Dusk Til Dawn (1996) 5.0
4. The Faculty (1998) 6.0
5. Spy Kids (2001) 5.5
6. Sin City (2005) 6.5
7. Planet Terror (2007) 7.0

[Sycophant]

El Mariachi 6.0
Desperado 3.5
From Dusk Till Dawn 9.0
Spy Kids 3-D 7.0
Once Upon a Time in Mexico 5.5
Sin City 9.5
Planet Terror 7.5

[origami_mustache]

El Mariachi 5
Desperado 6.5
From Dusk Til Dawn 4
The Faculty 4.5
Once Upon a Time in Mexico 4
Sin City 6.5
Planet Terror 5

[Bosco B Thug]

Whoo I call the first Spy Kids triple threat!

From Dusk Til Dawn - 5.5/10
Spy Kids - 5.5/10
Spy Kids 2 - 5.5/10 (tempted for a 6, I really enjoy this one for some reason)
Spy Kids 3 - 2.5/10
Sin City - 6/10
Planet Terror - 6.5/10

[Watashi]

Surprised by the low scores for Dawn.

What was not to like?

[Ezee E]

Surprised by the low scores for Dawn.

What was not to like?
I can see people not liking it because of the second half, even though it's just like anything in Planet Terror. Plus, Quentin is pretty annoying, and Clooney wasn't yet a good actor.

I find it incredibly fun though, and it might just be his best movie thus far. It's too bad he dedicated so much time to those Spy Kids movies.

[Rowland]

Desperado 6.5
From Dusk Till Dawn 8.0
The Faculty 4.5
Spy Kids 6.0
Once Upon a Time in Mexico 7.0
Sin City 7.0
Planet Terror 6.0

[Sven]

El Mariachi - 5
Desperado - 3
From Dusk Til Dawn - 7
The Faculty - 7
Spy Kids - 7.5
Spy Kids 2 - 6
Spy Kids 3 - 7
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 6.5
Sin City - 7
Sharkboy and Lavagirl - 1
Planet Terror - 7

Better than I thought he'd fare with me. I guess I generally find his stuff "fun", if not very engaging. Except for goddamn Sharkboy and Lavagirl, which is up there with the worst experiences I've ever had.

[Stay Puft]

El Mariachi - 7
Desperado - 4
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 7
Sin City - 2
Planet Terror - 6

[Bosco B Thug]

I still can like films I give a 5 or 5.5. There's a lot to like about From Dusk Til Dawn. 4.5 and lower is the necessary "Dislike."

I've heard from numerous peoples that I need to see The Faculty post haste, so it's too bad to see it get a lot of "Lowest Rated" scores.

[Sycophant]

I'll be seeing The Faculty within the week.

There's only one thing not to like about From Dusk Till Dawn.
That fucking human guitar gag. How I hate it!

[Watashi]

I'll be seeing The Faculty within the week.

There's only one thing not to like about From Dusk Till Dawn.
That fucking human guitar gag. How I hate it!

I thought it was pretty funny. :confused:

Too gruesome for you?

[Sycophant]

I thought it was pretty funny. :confused:

Too gruesome for you?
Too stupid. Too frequently cut to. Too stupid.

[Rowland]

I don't get the love for The Faculty. I know Trans considers it Rodriguez's best, but I just see a hack-script by Williamson directed with no passion by Rodriguez. The entire movie feels like it's going through the motions, there is nothing even faintly memorable about any of it.

[Rowland]

Too stupid. Too frequently cut to. Too stupid.Most of that sequence has the same sense of cheesy/cheeky humor. Do you hate the gag with the eyeballs rolling into the pool table corners?

[Dead & Messed Up]

Most of that sequence has the same sense of cheesy/cheeky humor. Do you hate the gag with the eyeballs rolling into the pool table corners?

That one, sir, is genius.

Since I don't rate anymore, I'll just comment that Sin City and From Dusk Till Dawn are his best films. The rest are kinda blah.

[Boner M]

El Mariachi - 5.5
From Dusk Til Dawn - 7
The Faculty - 7
Spy Kids - 6
Sin City - 6.5
Planet Terror - 6

[Spinal]

El Mariachi - 5
Desperado - 5.5
From Dusk Till Dawn - 6
The Faculty - 4.5
Sin City - 4
Planet Terror - 8

[Sycophant]

Most of that sequence has the same sense of cheesy/cheeky humor. Do you hate the gag with the eyeballs rolling into the pool table corners?No, I'm fine with, really, pretty much everything else in the film. That one gag is the only thing in the movie I hate. I'd have let it pass were it only cut two once or twice, but the fact that the prop is so ugly and the joke isn't that good, yet we keep seeing it as if it were worth seeing again and again... that gets my ire up.

My hatred for this gag borders on legendary in my circle of friends. Ask iosos. I've stood in parking lots, screaming about how much I hate that fucking thing.

I'm willing to concede that my hatred is at least a little irrational.

[Rowland]

No, I'm fine with, really, pretty much everything else in the film. That one gag is the only thing in the movie I hate. I'd have let it pass were it only cut two once or twice, but the fact that the prop is so ugly and the joke isn't that good, yet we keep seeing it as if it were worth seeing again and again... that gets my ire up.I thought he was just cutting to the band playing during the sequence for a sort of rhythmic editing. The body parts used as instruments were just an incidental visual detail. It's not like every shot of the band was a closeup of the ribcage guitar.

[transmogrifier]

I don't get the love for The Faculty. I know Trans considers it Rodriguez's best, but I just see a hack-script by Williamson directed with no passion by Rodriguez.


And that's why it's probably his best: he didn't screw it up with his "artisitic" impulses.

[Rowland]

And that's why it's probably his best: he didn't screw it up with his "artisitic" impulses.There was nothing there to screw up anyway. Blankness begets blankness begets boredom on my part.

[transmogrifier]

There was nothing there to screw up anyway. Blankness begets blankness begets boredom on my part.

If it makes you feel any better, it'd score in the low 60s. And that's his BEST film, remember.

We seem to be running out of directors.

[soitgoes...]

El Mariachi (1993) - 6.0
Desperado (1995) - 4.0
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 3.5
The Faculty (1998) - 2.0
Sin City (2005) - 6.0
Planet Terror (2007) - 8.5

[MadMan]

Yeah RR's okay with me, although he's a low rent QT at best.

El Mariachi(1992)-8.0
Desperado(1995)-7.5
Spy Kids(1999)-7.0
Once Upon a Time in Mexico(2003)-8.0
Sin City(2005)-8.5
Planet Terror(2007)-8.0

I really need to see Dusk Til Dawn.

[Watashi]

From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 3.5
Planet Terror (2007) - 8.5

This confuzzles me.

[Yxklyx]

Sin City - 7
Planet Terror - 9

[Skitch]

Mariachi, El (1992) - 6/10
Desperado (1995) - 7/10
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 10/10
The Faculty (1998) - 8/10
Spy Kids (2001) - 8/10
Spy Kids 2: Island of Lost Dreams (2002) - 8/10
Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over (2003) - 6/10
Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2003) - 9/10
Sin City (2005) - 10/10
Planet Terror (2007) - 10/10



One of my favorite directors...top three. I love the guys style.

[EyesWideOpen]

Mariachi, El (1992) - 5
Desperado (1995) - 7
From Dusk Till Dawn (1996) - 7.5
Once Upon a Time in Mexico (2003) - 8
Sin City (2005) - 10
Planet Terror (2007) - 7

[D_Davis]

El Mariachi - 6
Desperado - 7
From Dusk Til Dawn - 8
The Faculty - 5
Spy Kids - 6
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 6
Sin City - 7
Planet Terror - 7

Robert Rodriquez (the dude) - 10, he's super cool and possesses a lot of passion for filmmaking. I like him a lot more than I like his films.

I think the biggest error I made on my Top 100 is including Desperado. I should have chosen From Dusk Til Dawn, because it really is the better film.

[origami_mustache]

btw...I'm surprised no one has mentioned how hilarious the photo choice is.

[Melville]

Desperado - 5
From Dusk Til Dawn - 4.5
The Faculty - 5.5
Sin City - 4.5

[monolith94]

El Mariachi - 9.5
Desperado - 5
The Faculty - 8
Once Upon A Time In Mexico - 8.5
Sin City - 9.5
Planet Terror - 9

[Kurosawa Fan]

Desperado - 5.0
From Dusk Til Dawn - 7.5
The Faculty - 5.0
Sin City - 2.5
Planet Terror - 4.5

[Ezee E]

btw...I'm surprised no one has mentioned how hilarious the photo choice is.
Glad someone noticed.

[Sycophant]

Those are the Crazy Babysitter Twins, right? Anyone know the story there? Are they crazy? Are they babysitters?

[dreamdead]

Desperado (1995) - 6/10
The Faculty (1998) - 6.5/10
Sin City (2005) - 4/10
Planet Terror (2007) - 4/10

[Sycophant]

Robert Rodriquez (the dude) - 10, he's super cool and possesses a lot of passion for filmmaking. I like him a lot more than I like his films.Generally, I agree with this.

[Skitch]

Sin City - 2.5


Really?


From Dusk Til Dawn - 7.5
Planet Terror - 4.5

Wha?! How could you enjoy From Dusk Til Dawn and not Planet Terror?

[Thirdmango]

El Mariachi - 6
Desperado - 5
From Dusk Til Dawn - 8
The Faculty - 4
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 8
Sin City - 10

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

"The Misbehavors" - 7
Sin City - 4

[Kurosawa Fan]

Really?



Wha?! How could you enjoy From Dusk Til Dawn and not Planet Terror?

Yes, really. I almost walked out.


As for your second inquiry, From Dusk Til Dawn was fun. Planet Terror was trying to make me have fun. Grindhouse was tedious and phony. Instead of feeling like a real grindhouse film it felt like it was trying really hard to be a grindhouse film, and unsuccessfully.

[Rowland]

Yep, I've been arguing since Grindhouse came out that From Dusk Til Dawn was the same concept done better over a decade beforehand, and by the same filmmakers to boot. The bifurcated structure joining two disparate genres and the same irreverent tone, done in half the length and with less self-consciousness. And hell, Tarantino's performance in From Dusk Till Dawn is surprisingly passable, whereas his appearance in Planet Terror is just embarrassing.

[Morris Schæffer]

Desperado 7.0
From Dusk Till Dawn 7.5
Once Upon a Time in Mexico 3.0
Sin City 6.5

[Philosophe_rouge]

Sin City 3.5
Planet Terror 7

[MadMan]

Generally, I agree with this.As do I. Unlike QT I'd actually like to have a beer with the man and discuss film.

[ledfloyd]

As do I. Unlike QT I'd actually like to have a beer with the man and discuss film.
True QT is the better filmmaker but the more annoying person. RR is vice-versa. Cool as hell but not quite as good at making movies.

Desperado - 6
Four Rooms (The Misbehavers segment) - 8.5
From Dusk Til Dawn - 7.5
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 7
Sin City - 8
Planet Terror - 7.5

has nobody else seen four rooms? the movie sucks but rodriguez' segment is probably his best work. i love it.

[D_Davis]

As do I. Unlike QT I'd actually like to have a beer with the man and discuss film.

Actually, I'd rather hang out with QT.

I would love to talk martial arts films with QT, and would want Bey Logan to join us.

[Sycophant]

When Tarantino is talking about movies he loves, he's a total spazz. And I love that about him.

[Spinal]

has nobody else seen four rooms? the movie sucks but rodriguez' segment is probably his best work. i love it.

I've seen it, but I couldn't remember Rod's film at all. Which is weird, because I remember all the others.

[Derek]

has nobody else seen four rooms? the movie sucks but rodriguez' segment is probably his best work. i love it.

Agreed, though I doubt we're counting quarter films.

Desperado - 6.5
Four Rooms (The Misbehavers segment) - 7.0
From Dusk Til Dawn - 5.5
The Faculty - 5.0
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 6.5
Sin City - 4.5
Planet Terror - 4.5

[Spinal]

Agreed, though I doubt we're counting quarter films.


I don't think any of them were over 30 minutes, were they?

[Derek]

I've seen it, but I couldn't remember Rod's film at all. Which is weird, because I remember all the others.

That is strange, especially since the first two segments pretty much sucked. He did the third one with Banderas as the dad who leaves the two kids alone in the room.

[Derek]

I don't think any of them were over 30 minutes, were they?

Probably not. I wasn't saying we should count it since honestly, anything that keeps Rodriguez's overall rating lower is fine with me. I figured that might have been the reason no one else listed it.

[Kurosawa Fan]

His was definitely the best segment of Four Rooms.

[ledfloyd]

my bad, i thought short films were fair game. and was thinking of it like that.

and sycophant as to your query about the babysitter twins, they're rodriguez's nieces. which makes that picture slightly creepy.

[Qrazy]

El Mariachi - 3
Desperado - 3
From Dusk Til Dawn - 2
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 2
Sin City - 6
Planet Terror - 6

He's improving. I guess that's something.

[trotchky]

From Dusk 'Til Dawn - 5.5
Spy Kids - 5
Spy Kids 2 - 4
Sin City - 1
Planet Terror - 4

[Sycophant]

Sin City - 0
You're not allowed to do that.

[trotchky]

You're not allowed to do that.

My bad.

What's the lowest? 1?

[Spinal]

I'm starting to feel like my Sin City rating is too high.

[Sycophant]

My bad.

What's the lowest? 1?Yeah, that.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm starting to feel like my Sin City rating is too high.

It is.

[Rowland]

I'm tempted to bump up my Sin City score just to offset the irrational extremity in these low scores. :lol:

[MadMan]

Actually, I'd rather hang out with QT.

I would love to talk martial arts films with QT, and would want Bey Logan to join us.I find QT incredibly annoying. I would probably be tempted to knock his lights out.

Also why do I have the feeling that my rating for Sin City is one of the highest ones? Its actually my favorite film of his, although I also love Desperado and OUATIM as well. Planet Terror on the other hand I enjoy more than I actually love it.

PS: At least three people in this thread actually gave SC a 10.0. Interesting.

[DavidSeven]

Can we just give the guy a "meh" across the board and be done with it?

[Ezee E]

Can we just give the guy a "meh" across the board and be done with it?
It'll be interesting to tally up it seems.

[Winston*]

El Mariachi - 6
Desperado - 4
From Dusk Til Dawn - 6
The Faculty - 4
Spy Kids - 7
Spy Kids 2 - 4
Once Upon a Time in Mexico - 6
Sin City - 5

Or something. I don't remember most of these movies very well.

[ledfloyd]

Also why do I have the feeling that my rating for Sin City is one of the highest ones? Its actually my favorite film of his

i agree.


I'm tempted to bump up my Sin City score just to offset the irrational extremity in these low scores. :lol:
me too.

[Skitch]

Can we just give the guy a "meh" across the board and be done with it?



*insert retalitory and equally condescending remark*

[Mysterious Dude]

El Mariachi - 7.5
From Dusk Till Dawn - 5.0
The Faculty - 8.0
Sin City - 3.0
The Adventures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl 3-D - 3.5

[Grouchy]

Desperado - 8
"Four Rooms" segment - 7
From Dusk 'Till Dawn - 9
Once upon a Time in Mexico - 5
Sin City - 9
"Grindhouse" Planet Terror - 7

[MadMan]

*insert retalitory and equally condescending remark*Don't mence words Skitch. Tell us how you you really feel :P

[Qrazy]

*No, I demand a Bleh!*

Fixed.

[Qrazy]

I find QT incredibly annoying. I would probably be tempted to knock his lights out.

Also why do I have the feeling that my rating for Sin City is one of the highest ones? Its actually my favorite film of his, although I also love Desperado and OUATIM as well. Planet Terror on the other hand I enjoy more than I actually love it.

PS: At least three people in this thread actually gave SC a 10.0. Interesting.

What do you love about OUATIM? I can understand the others although they're certainly not my thing but... yeah...?

[Benny Profane]

Who is next, Penny Marshall?

[Ezee E]

Who is next, Penny Marshall?
Has she done four movies?

We'll get to her eventually. :)

I actually like doing some of these mainstream directors every once in a while because we get to hear some discussion about them that we wouldn't even think about otherwise. Sure, he's a mediocre director, but some of the voting is interesting. Sin City is one of the more divisive movies that I've tallied thus far.

[Qrazy]

Has she done four movies?

We'll get to her eventually. :)

I actually like doing some of these mainstream directors every once in a while because we get to hear some discussion about them that we wouldn't even think about otherwise. Sure, he's a mediocre director, but some of the voting is interesting. Sin City is one of the more divisive movies that I've tallied thus far.

Is there a director concensus super thread on the old match-cut? Or who has been covered so far?

[Ezee E]

Is there a director concensus super thread on the old match-cut? Or who has been covered so far?
There is. One of these days I will look it up. Possibly this week.

[Sycophant]

There is. One of these days I will look it up. Possibly this week.If you don't, I think I will. I'm going to see what lists I can salvage from over there and probably crosspost them here, like I did with the List-Fu at the outset here. Just in case the old place ever does go down.

[Raiders]

I have all the old data on my harddrive. Don't worry about the old lists.

[MadMan]

What do you love about OUATIM? I can understand the others although they're certainly not my thing but... yeah...?Its over the top, epic, and yet manages to be completely entertaining without falling apart at the seams. Plus Johnny Depp's performance is just awesome-I think I may actually like it more than his Jack Sparrow performance. The action sequences are pretty exciting (especially the one that starts with El Mariachi shooting gunmen in that town square), and to me its as much a homage to Leone as the rest of the trilogy is. It also gives the trilogy an awesome conclusion.

[Sycophant]

I disagree with nearly everything MadMan said there. In fact, reading that makes me realize how untrue all of that is and kind of makes me want to push down whatever score I gave it, which I'm sure was too generous.

[MadMan]

I disagree with nearly everything MadMan said there. In fact, reading that makes me realize how untrue all of that is and kind of makes me want to push down whatever score I gave it, which I'm sure was too generous.

http://www.iseehawks.com/hawkslog/archives/big-lebowski-2.jpg
"That's just like....your opinion, man."

[Dead & Messed Up]

I don't get the love for The Faculty. I know Trans considers it Rodriguez's best, but I just see a hack-script by Williamson directed with no passion by Rodriguez. The entire movie feels like it's going through the motions, there is nothing even faintly memorable about any of it.

As I recall, Williamson was brought in for cleanup detail, but it seems like he added an unnecessary amount of self-reference. The dialogue between Elijah Wood and Clea DuVall about sci-fi authors spreading the truth through their work seems designed to frame a trailer. In regard to the story, it has absolutely no impact.

And I suspect he's also responsible for lines like, "...before I Men-in-Black your ass!"

::sighs::

And you're spot on about From Dusk Till Dawn being a better Grindhouse.

[balmakboor]

Bed Head - 6
El Mariachi - 9
Desperado - 7
From Dusk Til Dawn - 6
Spy Kids - 7
Spy Kids 2 - 8
Sin City - 7
Planet Terror - 7

[Sycophant]

I totally got The Faculty from Netflix and put it in my DVD player. Then, I realized I didn't want to see it right then and if not then, then probably never, put it back in the mail, and watched September instead.

[Ezee E]

I totally got The Faculty from Netflix and put it in my DVD player. Then, I realized I didn't want to see it right then and if not then, then probably never, put it back in the mail, and watched September instead.
I've done that many a times for these directors' consensus.

[balmakboor]

I totally got The Faculty from Netflix and put it in my DVD player. Then, I realized I didn't want to see it right then and if not then, then probably never, put it back in the mail, and watched September instead.

Let's see: The Faculty in one hand. September in the other hand. I'd say you made a wise decision.

[Raiders]

The Faculty is ten times more entertaining than September. What a whiny, aggravating film. I could barely even finish it, and I have tried to remove as much of it from my memory as possible.

[balmakboor]

I don't have much love for either The Faculty or September. I started to watch The Faculty once and didn't finish. I saw September when it first opened in theaters and thought it was lower to middle tier Allen.

Still, I always get that comfort food feeling whenever I watch a Woody Allen film, no matter how good or bad.

[Spinal]

I can't think of a reason to watch The Faculty 10 years after its initial release. If you want a moderately watchable, mildly clever teen horror film, you might as well watch something more current. They make 'em every month. The only circumstances under which I can see recommending it is "it's on cable and you've lost the remote."

[Derek]

I can't think of a reason to watch The Faculty 10 years after its initial release. If you want a moderately watchable, mildly clever teen horror film, you might as well watch something more current. They make 'em every month. The only circumstances under which I can see recommending it is "it's on cable and you've lost the remote."

Exactly, and I'd like to think we've evolved as a species to the point that "Robert Rodriguez completist" is no longer part of our vocabulary. He's the appendage of American cinema - we can tolerate him, even pay attention to him occasionally, but it works out better for everyone if we just forget he's there.

[MadMan]

Dude there are even some truly good directors who have made bad films that I'm not going to watch just to see everything they've made. I'm not going to throw out good taste just for that.

[balmakboor]

I'm more interested in Rodriguez for his "get it done quick" "jack of all trades" approach to filmmaking than the end products. In a negative sort of way, he's actually a walking billboard for the value of having good collaborators.

I do think that El Mariachi and the first two Spy Kids are a blast though.

[Derek]

Dude there are even some truly good directors who have made bad films that I'm not going to watch just to see everything they've made. I'm not going to throw out good taste just for that.

Of course that's true, although I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to purposefully avoid great director's failures. My point was that there's no reason to watch The Faculty unless you're a Rodriguez completist and that Rodriguez isn't a director worth that kind of commitment. I don't dislike him that much, and I enjoy a couple of his films, but he gets more attention than he deserves. That's all.

[Sycophant]

Dude there are even some truly good directors who have made bad films that I'm not going to watch just to see everything they've made. I'm not going to throw out good taste just for that.
How the hell do you know they're bad films? Your "good taste" is meaningless if you just accept conventional consensus.

And while Rodriguez lacks real cinematic significance, he is intersting to me if just in terms of his idiosyncratic work ethic. It's curious to contrast him with his "brother," Quentin Tarantino, as Tarantino's work is dependent on cinematic history, alive with references and an understanding of cinema. Rodriguez usually seems to be mimicking the idea of other movies. I didn't say that articulately. But there's that.

It's no coincidence that my two favorite Rodriguez films are taken from other people's writing.

[Sycophant]

I'm going to clarify what I said above here instead of editing my original post. What I mean is that Tarantino wears his influences on his sleeve. His films have a distinct cinematic pedigree and he undertsands the language of cinema and quotes numerous films because he knows how to make them work. I've long suspected that the reason Tarantino doesn't make a lot of movies is because he spends too much time watching them.

Rodriguez, on the other hand, seems deaf to real film influence. He constructs things in a way that tends to read like a mimicry of an impression of things, like someone who would describe to his DP (if he bothered to have one), "you know, like in those movies--you know the ones, with like the guns and stuff." Not to write him off as a dullard by any means, but watching Rodriguez's films you can see him trying to figure out the language all by himself. Hence, his films are frequently a structural mess and often read resistant to any real, specific influence.

Still not as articulate as I meant. But I think I'm onto something.

[Watashi]

Robert Rodriguez is cinema.

[Qrazy]

Rodriguez, on the other hand, seems deaf to real film influence. He constructs things in a way that tends to read like a mimicry of an impression of things, like someone who would describe to his DP (if he bothered to have one), "you know, like in those movies--you know the ones, with like the guns and stuff." Not to write him off as a dullard by any means, but watching Rodriguez's films you can see him trying to figure out the language all by himself. Hence, his films are frequently a structural mess and often read resistant to any real, specific influence.

Still not as articulate as I meant. But I think I'm onto something.

Nah, from what I've heard and read I think Rodriguez has a pretty wide knowledge and grasp of film history. He's just not particularly adept at recreating it.

[Qrazy]

How the hell do you know they're bad films? Your "good taste" is meaningless if you just accept conventional consensus.


Everyone excepts someone's consensus to one degree or another. There are hundred of thousands of films out there and yet we all spend our time discussing a few thousand. Implicit social value judgments are necessary to even attempt to delve into cinema history. If you watched everything starting at the beginning of cinema history you'd be long dead before you scratched the 50's.

I'm not saying all bad reviewed films are such and should be avoided, but I can be fairly certain Uwe Boll sucks without seeing his work.

[Qrazy]

Robert Rodriguez is cinema.

Corollary: In any language where cinema is synonymous with dog shit.

[MadMan]

Of course that's true, although I don't necessarily think it's a good idea to purposefully avoid great director's failures. My point was that there's no reason to watch The Faculty unless you're a Rodriguez completist and that Rodriguez isn't a director worth that kind of commitment. I don't dislike him that much, and I enjoy a couple of his films, but he gets more attention than he deserves. That's all.No, I understood what you were originally saying. I just added on to it in a way.


How the hell do you know they're bad films? Your "good taste" is meaningless if you just accept conventional consensus.I'm more likely to trust my own judgement. And honestly there are many films that when you read about them or see trailers for (if those do exist) that make it plain that they appear to be incredibly poorly made, crappy films. Consensus does help to check out the films that according to many are worth watching. This helps save money and time. I'm all about that. Life is too short to watch shitty films.

[Sycophant]

I'm more likely to trust my own judgement. And honestly there are many films that when you read about them or see trailers for (if those do exist) that make it plain that they appear to be incredibly poorly made, crappy films. Consensus does help to check out the films that according to many are worth watching. This helps save money and time. I'm all about that. Life is too short to watch shitty films.Fine. Whatever. But when you're talking about it in context of directors and other filmmakers you think are good, that's a horse of a different color.

[Sycophant]

Nah, from what I've heard and read I think Rodriguez has a pretty wide knowledge and grasp of film history. He's just not particularly adept at recreating it.
Yeah, you're probably right.

[MadMan]

Fine. Whatever. But when you're talking about it in context of directors and other filmmakers you think are good, that's a horse of a different color.I was just talking about movies, not directors. Although I think we call all agree that Uwe Boll is not a good director. We don't have to see his movies to be able to know that ;)

[Sycophant]

Sorry, I should let this go. But MadMan, you totally said this, which is what I was responding to:

Dude there are even some truly good directors who have made bad films that I'm not going to watch just to see everything they've made. I'm not going to throw out good taste just for that.
But then, I'm actually not willing to write off Uwe Boll until I've seen one of his films.

[DavidSeven]

I'm going to clarify what I said above here instead of editing my original post. What I mean is that Tarantino wears his influences on his sleeve. His films have a distinct cinematic pedigree and he undertsands the language of cinema and quotes numerous films because he knows how to make them work. I've long suspected that the reason Tarantino doesn't make a lot of movies is because he spends too much time watching them.

Rodriguez, on the other hand, seems deaf to real film influence. He constructs things in a way that tends to read like a mimicry of an impression of things, like someone who would describe to his DP (if he bothered to have one), "you know, like in those movies--you know the ones, with like the guns and stuff." Not to write him off as a dullard by any means, but watching Rodriguez's films you can see him trying to figure out the language all by himself. Hence, his films are frequently a structural mess and often read resistant to any real, specific influence.

Still not as articulate as I meant. But I think I'm onto something.

I think this is a fair and good assessment of how their films play even if it isn't true of them as individuals.

[ledfloyd]

i agree with sycophants point. if you truly think a director is good why wouldn't you want to see everything they've done?

there's also the truffaut quote (paraphrased) 'an auteur's worst movie is always more interesting than the best movie made by someone who is not.'

[MadMan]

Sorry, I should let this go. But MadMan, you totally said this, which is what I was responding to:

But then, I'm actually not willing to write off Uwe Boll until I've seen one of his films.Actually I do plan to eventually view one of his films myself. And this weekend I'm going to see my first Ed Wood Jr. film: Plan 9 From Outer Space. I'm kind of excited. I hope it lives up to expectations.

Finally the Boll film I really want to see is In The Name of the King. Postal looks interesting, if only because it appears to be made in the mold of completely bad taste. I think it will become the most controversial movie of the year-at least I hope so anyways.

[Qrazy]

Fine. Whatever. But when you're talking about it in context of directors and other filmmakers you think are good, that's a horse of a different color.

Oh, then I agree. I'm a huge completionist.

And yeah that Osama/Bush skipping through the atomic garden scene in Postal looks outrageous.

[Skitch]

Man, as much as some are you are throwing RR under the bus, me thinks you have failed to see some truly shitty filmmakers. If RR is the bottom of the barrel, you guys must watch amazing films 24/7.

[Qrazy]

Man, as much as some are you are throwing RR under the bus, me thinks you have failed to see some truly shitty filmmakers. If RR is the bottom of the barrel, you guys must watch amazing films 24/7.

My rating scale is -10 to 10 to counteract just such dilemmas. :)

[Rowland]

RR has lots going for him. Unfortunately, it feels like he is squandering the potential inherent to his talents more often than not.

[D_Davis]

RR has lots going for him. Unfortunately, it feels like he is squandering the potential inherent to his talents more often than not.

I think so. But I also think that RR doesn't really care. He's having fun and making a living doing what he loves while exercising his creativity. In my estimation, there isn't much more needed for a perfect life. Add in a good wife and a dog, and dammit, that's heaven on Earth.

[Qrazy]

I think so. But I also think that RR doesn't really care. He's having fun and making a living doing what he loves while exercising his creativity. In my estimation, there isn't much more needed for a perfect life. Add in a good wife and a dog, and dammit, that's heaven on Earth.

How about the legacy he'll wish he created as he approaches his deathbed and realizes he spent about a decade conceiving and executing Spy Kids films.

[D_Davis]

How about the legacy he'll wish he created as he approaches his deathbed and realizes he spent about a decade conceiving and executing Spy Kids films.

Legacy, shmegacy.

[balmakboor]

How about the legacy he'll wish he created as he approaches his deathbed and realizes he spent about a decade conceiving and executing Spy Kids films.

I think Spy Kids I & II are two of his three best films.

[balmakboor]

What I would really like to see from RR is a sort of feature length Bedhead. I think he has a terrific and very personal film in him about a Mexican American family. I could see it being something somewhere between Almost Famous and The Taste of Tea.

For now, his El Mariachi and Spy Kids films did a fine job of fulfulling his goal of turning Hispanic characters into superheroes. His other films strike me as technically proficient works that show a great understanding of using cinema to tell stories. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have much of interest -- at least to me -- to say with films like Sin City and Planet Terror. So I enjoyed each of them in the moment, but they haven't stayed with me.

[Qrazy]

I think Spy Kids I & II are two of his three best films.

Which further demonstrates just how awful his filmography actually is.

[Dead & Messed Up]

One thing I will say of The Faculty is that I do enjoy the way the screenplay actually utilizes every setting of its high school, from behind the basketball bleachers to the chem lab to the water fountain.

I think that there could be a genuinely interesting horror/sci-fi tucked away inside. I do have a weakness for the picture, especially its Thing-inspired "tweaking" scene.

[D_Davis]

What I would really like to see from RR is a sort of feature length Bedhead. I think he has a terrific and very personal film in him about a Mexican American family. I could see it being something somewhere between Almost Famous and The Taste of Tea.


I agree.

[Qrazy]

I agree.

I don't see it ever happening though, quiet drama is his weakest point. The best I hope from him is more of the same as his last two outings but for him to focus more intently on character and less on style.

[balmakboor]

I don't see it ever happening though, quiet drama is his weakest point. The best I hope from him is more of the same as his last two outings but for him to focus more intently on character and less on style.

My favorite moments in El Mariachi are some of the quiet character moments. I especially like the bathtub scene. I also love the scene early on where he is walking down the street past a turtle and buys a coconut with the gentle guitar music playing. That was the moment where I fell in love with the movie.

[eternity]

Desperado- 8
From Dusk Till Dawn- 7.5
The Faculty- 9
Spy Kids- 7.5
Spy Kids 2: Island of Lost Dreams- 4
Spy Kids 3: Game Over- 3
Once Upon a Time in Mexico- 6.5
Sin City- 8.5
The Adventures of Sharboy and Lavagirl in 3D- 2
Planet Terror- 7

[Sycophant]

I think Spy Kids I & II are two of his three best films.
But the real question is how you feel about Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over.

[balmakboor]

But the real question is how you feel about Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over.

Haven't seen it.

[Skitch]

But the real question is how you feel about Spy Kids 3-D: Game Over.

Why?

[EvilShoe]

El Mariachi - 5.5
Roadracers - 4.0
Desperado- 6.5
From Dusk Till Dawn- 7.5
The Faculty- 5.5
Spy Kids- 4.0
Once Upon a Time in Mexico- 3.5
Sin City- 5.0

[Qrazy]

Why?

Why not?

[Skitch]

Why not?

A director is judged by his worst movie?

[Sycophant]

Spy Kids 3-D 7.0That's why.

[Skitch]

That's why.

:)

Nevermind, I misunderstood.

[Ezee E]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/bialasishaha/rr.jpg

RESULTS:

Planet Terror: 6.82 (28)
From Dusk Till Dawn: 6.61 (28)
Spy Kids: 6.23 (13)
Sin City: 6.13 (35)
Once Upon A Time In Mexico: 6.07 (21)
El Mariachi: 6.05 (20)
Spy Kids 2: 5.92 (6)
Desperado: 5.82 (28)
The Faculty: 5.70 (20)
Spy Kids 3: 5.1 (5)
The Advetures of Sharkboy and Lavagirl: 1.88 (4)

= 5.67


BIGGEST FAN: monolith
BIGGEST HATER: Qrazy
Only Person to see entire RR filmography: Iosos

[Sycophant]

I'm very nearly tempted to watch Shark Boy & Lava Girl.

I wonder what the lowest-rated film in these consensus threads has been. That's gotta be a contender.

[MadMan]

That sharp downward spike in that graph is quite funny, and pretty glaring. I can't wait to compare all of the graphs when the year's over.