In My Language - autism

[D_Davis]

Have you all seen this video of an autistic woman describing her world?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/the-language-of-autism/index.html?ex=1361941200&en=539b83f6c8994672&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

It is fascinating.

It is also strikingly similar to the way Philip K. Dick described the world of autism in his book, Martian Time Slip. Although he speculated that autistic people were in a strange field of time displacement. From their perspective, time flowed much too fast, and so to stop from becoming insane from information overload, they had to shut down.

Very interesting stuff.

Who knows what we could learn about the world, if only we could understand how an autistic person perceives it?

This really is one of the greatest things I've ever seen.

I remember watching it a few months ago, and then it appeared this morning on Digg. I am glad to have rediscovered it.

[Sven]

That was incredible. One thing that strikes me about her mode of communication is how real it feels... like, how much I can relate with it. I remember times when I've felt feverish or sick or delirious and it was just enough to feel the towel on my face or to hear the running water. They're beautiful and comforting memories.

[D_Davis]

That was incredible. One thing that strikes me about her mode of communication is how real it feels... like, how much I can relate with it. I remember times when I've felt feverish or sick or delirious and it was just enough to feel the towel on my face or to hear the running water. They're beautiful and comforting memories.

It almost makes me jealous.

Here is a NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/20/health/20autism.html?_r=2&sq=amy%20harmon%20and%20autism&st=nyt&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&scp=3&adxnnlx=1204311682-mdWhon4I+E9h4Qd4KScyyQ

In which, autistic people are asking NOT to be cured.


If this stuff is at all interesting to you, check out Martian Time Slip. This book got me really interested in autism.

[D_Davis]

What if some form of autism was the next stage of human evolution?

[Watashi]

Meh. I saw this a long time ago. There are so many levels of autism that it changes from person to person. I've been diagnosed with autism (I'm about 26% autistic), and I perceive the world just fine.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That was wonderful D. Thanks for posting. I agree with iosos that there were things she was doing that really struck me as closer to my own memories or desires, like the towel and the running water. I can see it in my kids as well. My youngest loves putting his hands under a running faucet, and would do it for hours if we let him. He also rubs a stuffed animal on his face when he's getting ready to go to sleep. Things like that I used to do as a child, and still do from time to time. I love sinking my hands into sand or rice, or touching the road. Things that always seem weird to others.

[D_Davis]

I've been diagnosed with autism (I'm about 26% autistic), and I perceive the world just fine.

So does this women - just differently, and perhaps even a bit more completely.

This video is the opposite of "meh."

[Kurosawa Fan]

Meh. I saw this a long time ago. There are so many levels of autism that it changes from person to person. I've been diagnosed with autism (I'm about 26% autistic), and I perceive the world just fine.

So because there are different levels of autism, we should write this woman and her confession off? Nice philosophy. You truly do perceive the world just fine.

[Watashi]

So because there are different levels of autism, we should write this woman and her confession off? Nice philosophy. You truly do perceive the world just fine.
Did I ever say we should write people off? Geez, get your finger off the trigger before you bite back.

I've worked with autistic people (both at all my jobs and some volunteer work), and I don't buy into the notion that they "understand" the world more and therefore should be awarded with superiority. I've met a lot of autistic people who were real dicks, and it had nothing to do with their condition.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Did I ever say we should write people off? Geez, get your finger off the trigger before you bite back.

I've worked with autistic people (both at all my jobs and some volunteer work), and I don't buy into the notion that they "understand" the world more and therefore should be awarded with superiority. I've met a lot of autistic people who were real dicks, and it had nothing to do with their condition.

Your "Meh" was writing her off. That's what "meh" basically means.

And at what point in that video did she say she understood the world more and should be awarded superiority? I must have missed that part.

I've met a lot of real people who were dicks. What's your point?

[Watashi]

Your "Meh" was writing her off. That's what "meh" basically means.

No. That's what you think it means.


And at what point in that video did she say she understood the world more and should be awarded superiority? I must have missed that part.

That was targeted towards D_Davis, not the woman, whom I have no qualms against.


I've met a lot of real people who were dicks. What's your point?

The point is that people should get a "free pass" because they are autistic. Like I said, there are different levels of autism. Some know they are being a dick, others don't.

[D_Davis]

I've met a lot of autistic people who were real dicks, and it had nothing to do with their condition.

It might have had something to do with the way people treated them, though.

I used to substitute for special ed classes, so I too worked with kids like this. I always wondered what the world looked like through their eyes. How did they perceive things? I don't think they are superior, but I do think that there is always something to learn from looking at things from a completely different angle. Sometimes we get so used to seeing things through "normal" eyes, and our "normal" perspective, that a new filter or position is greatly beneficial.

Plus, our verbal language really does limit how we can express ourselves, and how we interact with the world. Perhaps by expanding the kind of language we use we could also expand out consciousness and our ability to communicate with each other and with nature.

Maybe the key to this kind of understanding lies within the world of extreme autism, and maybe by understanding that more, we will learn something about ourselves.

[Kurious Jorge v3.1]

There is a great short documentary called "A Is For Autism", that showcases the drawings of autistic children with an audio overlap of them describing their world and the way they see things. It is really fascinating.

There is a common misconception that alot of autistic people have the amazing ability to recognize/retain information ro things (probably thanks to 'Rain Man'). Less than 1% of autistic people have this ability, however there was an autistic kid in my high school who knew every street by heart and could draw a entire map of them in the neighbouring three or four towns!

[D_Davis]

There is a great short documentary called "A Is For Autism", that showcases the drawings of autistic children with an audio overlap of them describing their world and the way they see things. It is really fascinating.


I'm going to check this out. Thanks!

[D_Davis]

I used to substitute for special ed classes, so I too worked with kids like this.

Notice what I did there?

I alway refer to autistic people, or people with Down's, as "kids," even if they are adults, sometimes older than me.

I've got to stop that.

[Watashi]

When I was diagnosed with autism when I was kid, I was on Ritalin nearly every day until I was about 10 when my parents thought it was stupid and I didn't need it. Needless to say, I was bouncing off the walls and doing all sorts of crazy stuff. Most of my autistic behavior came off as being really shy and very personal with my self (I would hate being touched as a child), but most of that passed when I aged into my teens.

[bac0n]

Wow. That was a pretty amazing video. Thanks for sharing.

[Sycophant]

Descriptions of mildly autistic children make me wonder if I'm actually a bit autistic. I was diagnosed with a couple of obsucure learning disabilities that I've heard maybe four other people discuss. And autism wasn't really "in vogue" sixteen, eighteen years ago. Dunno. I need to do some research into it.

I'll check out this video when I get home.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Boy, all this time I've been confused about what "meh" means. Why did nobody call me out when I've misused it in the past? Sure could have been less embarrassing for me.

Apparently you have a history with the affliction that has given you a view I don't understand. No one said they deserved a free pass, no one said they were superior. Davis made a post theorizing that this was a form of evolution. That's quite a bit different than anything you've claimed.

[D_Davis]

Davis made a post theorizing that this was a form of evolution. That's quite a bit different than anything you've claimed.

Right. I was merely speculating, as someone into speculative fiction is likely to do.

I simply find it fascinating to perceive the world from a different perspective, or at least I want to try to understand how someone else perceives it. This video gives a little bit of insight into this.

[Wryan]

"It is only when I type something in your language that you refer to me as having communication."

Ain't that the fuckin truth.

[D_Davis]

"It is only when I type something in your language that you refer to me as having communication."

Ain't that the fuckin truth.

Kinda illustrates how shallow and narrow minded we are, eh?

[Wryan]

Kinda illustrates how shallow and narrow minded we are, eh?

Not surprising at all, but I love when people (anyone) say something like that so directly; it makes people realize their position is incredibly self-centered (literally, without the negative connotation).

[Benny Profane]

Kinda illustrates how shallow and narrow minded we are, eh?

I wonder if she understands the current presidential candidates' platforms, the structure of U.S. government and the global effect of our foreign policy.

[D_Davis]

Not surprising at all, but I love when people (anyone) say something like that so directly; it makes people realize their position is incredibly self-centered (literally, without the negative connotation).

Right.

It's so simple, and yet so profound; a message that a lot of people need to hear.


Just because you're not speaking my language, doesn't mean you are not communicating.

[D_Davis]

I wonder if she understands the current presidential candidates' platforms, the structure of U.S. government and the global effect of our foreign policy.

She probably has a completely different kind of insight into things like this, an insight that I wish she could teach to me.

Oh wait, you were being a (edited :) ) jack-ass...never mind, I see what you did there!

[Wryan]

I wonder if she understands the current presidential candidates' platforms, the structure of U.S. government and the global effect of our foreign policy.

I bet she understands some of it, perhaps even more than the average non-autistic US citizen does. Or perhaps not. Depends on her personality and how much she wants to know about that.

[D_Davis]

I bet she understands some of it, perhaps even more than the average non-autistic US citizen does. Or perhaps not. Depends on her personality and how much she wants to know about that.

He wasn't being genuine in his question. He was taking a cheap shot at me over our political debate a few days ago.

[Wryan]

He wasn't being genuine in his question. He was taking a cheap shot at me over our political debate a few days ago.

I figured as much, but I still preferred to answer seriously. :)

[lovejuice]

i just bough this book cheap.

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Blue-Day-Extraordinary-Autistic/dp/1416535071

should be an interesting read.

[Mysterious Dude]

What if some form of autism was the next stage of human evolution?

I have heard this hypothesis before, and frankly, it makes no sense.

I can believe that autism is a genetic mutation, and evolution is all about mutations. But it can only be evolution if the mutation gives the animal an advantage over other animals. Otherwise, it's just a mutation (and most mutations are not beneficial). Opposable thumbs, for instance, are likely the result of a mutation, and they most certainly give animals an advantage over animals that have all of their digits going in the same direction.

What advantage does having autism have? Most people with autism are incapable of taking care of themselves. They have to be taken care of by people who do not have autism. Is that a good thing?

Say you have two kids. On has autism, the other does not. Which kid is more likely to reach adulthood and bear children?

[D_Davis]

Maybe our society hasn't evolved enough to embrace and incorporate an "autistic" way of life and thinking?

Maybe there is a part of autism, like the part having to do more with spacial communication, that will be a part of our evolution?

Or, Maybe there is something in the way autistic people think that will act as a key to unlocking a deeper understanding in our own way of thought?

[transmogrifier]

Maybe, but unless this way of thinking produces greater reproductive success (either by having an advantage in the allocation of crucial resources for reproduction or by becoming an attractive trait in sexual selection [which, come to think of it, is merely a subset of the first thing]) than other ways of thinking, it ain't going to go anywhere.

And right now, I just can't see it.

I find it interesting that in the case of conditions like autism, people tend to either avoid/demonize or to overly romaticize the unfortunate (to me) afflicted with it. By all means, treat them like human beings and afford them as much dignity as you would anyone else, but I don't see the point in ascribing mystical powers to them.

[D_Davis]

Maybe, but unless this way of thinking produces greater reproductive success (either by having an advantage in the allocation of crucial resources for reproduction or by becoming an attractive trait in sexual selection [which, come to think of it, is merely a subset of the first thing]) than other ways of thinking, it ain't going to go anywhere.

And right now, I just can't see it.



This is totally right.

It will take a massive shifting of the biological and social pendulums for anyone to ever see autism, or something similar, as a desirable trait.

I am getting some ideas for another story though...


However, I am not talking about something mystical here. There is nothing mystical about shifting a perspective to get a new vantage point on something. And, sometimes, a new perspective is all one needs to breakthrough into something great.