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Ezee E
05-30-2016, 02:40 AM
Oof, Samwell and Walder Frey really slowed this episode down.

Ezee E
05-30-2016, 03:07 AM
I kind of don't think we'll see CleganeBowl. Jaime is also out at this point.

Instead, kind of thinking that the High Sparrow will pick Tommen to fight for them against the Mountain.

Watashi
05-30-2016, 04:02 AM
I kind of don't think we'll see CleganeBowl. Jaime is also out at this point.

Instead, kind of thinking that the High Sparrow will pick Tommen to fight for them against the Mountain.

Why would it be Tommen? That makes zero sense. The show has been hinting at a Hound return.

number8
05-30-2016, 02:08 PM
"Return the Seven Kingdoms to glory." - Tommen Trump

Peng
05-30-2016, 03:31 PM
Compared to past seasons, this one almost feels like sprinting now. Not that "slow-boil before everything goes to hell in episode 9" hasn't worked great for some seasons before, but I'm loving the new mode here.

Grouchy
05-30-2016, 06:51 PM
How cool was Jaime climbing up the stairs on horseback? That was a great stunt.

Russ
05-30-2016, 07:47 PM
Oof, Samwell and Walder Frey really slowed this episode down.
The Samwell sequence was my favorite bit of the episode, mainly in showing us some regal dynamics that we've never been privy to -- loved Samwell growing a pair, gathering his family, and swiping the sword -- how awesome was that?

Mara
05-30-2016, 09:11 PM
How cool was Jaime climbing up the stairs on horseback? That was a great stunt.

It looked like it was really him, too! Or excellent green screen work.

Ezee E
05-30-2016, 10:42 PM
It looked like it was really him, too! Or excellent green screen work.

You know, in general, I can't think of many movies where something like this happens.

Spinal
05-31-2016, 12:25 AM
I wonder if it was a legit stunt and they put the actor's face on later.

Mara
05-31-2016, 12:36 AM
Gif to watch here. (http://thebiglead.com/2016/05/30/game-of-thrones-blood-of-my-blood-recap/)

It's got to be a copy & pasted head, unless Nikolaj Whatever is secretly an expert horseman. That's a tricky stunt with a lot of things that could go wrong.

Spinal
05-31-2016, 01:00 AM
Really great effects regardless. Definitely made me go 'Whoa'.

Henry Gale
05-31-2016, 02:56 AM
Gif to watch here. (http://thebiglead.com/2016/05/30/game-of-thrones-blood-of-my-blood-recap/)

It's got to be a copy & pasted head, unless Nikolaj Whatever is secretly an expert horseman. That's a tricky stunt with a lot of things that could go wrong.

Oh definitely CG face replacement. It had the same unnatural movement and contrast as Lena's nude double in the shame walk, which makes sense since it's the same location/set and similar conditions.

Still very well executed. I just think I generally really notice these things. Like when people do compilations of digital matte effects like the overseas scenes in Wolf of Wall Street and the added aircrafts in the background of Sicario with the captions "OMG CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS" and I think, "Yeah, I noticed it looked off the second I saw it.." even if it doesn't entirely take me out of it.

Dukefrukem
05-31-2016, 12:02 PM
Nice eyes folks. I didn't even notice.

bac0n
05-31-2016, 02:15 PM
Great episode, tho I thought that Papa Tarley talking about the family sword in a pretty obvious bit of foreshadowing gave me a pretty big chuckle. The only thing missing was him saying "if this were ever to be taken from its mount, I would be extremely upset" and then staring at Samwell for the next five minutes through squinted eyes. Director's Cut, maybe?

number8
05-31-2016, 02:46 PM
Yeah, also funny how in the same conversation they managed to mention that Sam killed a White Walker with dragonglass and his family sword happens to be Valyrian steel.

This ep was exposition city. I got a chuckle out of Walder Frey helpfully recapping past events that makes him a villain in the story, while yelling for his castle back.

Grouchy
05-31-2016, 03:46 PM
Still very well executed. I just think I generally really notice these things. Like when people do compilations of digital matte effects like the overseas scenes in Wolf of Wall Street and the added aircrafts in the background of Sicario with the captions "OMG CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS" and I think, "Yeah, I noticed it looked off the second I saw it.." even if it doesn't entirely take me out of it.
But you notice it because you realize it would be a very hard shot to accomplish otherwise or because something in the image reveals it to you? I bought into this one (and the Walk of Shame) completely.

Spinal
05-31-2016, 03:56 PM
But you notice it because you realize it would be a very hard shot to accomplish otherwise or because something in the image reveals it to you? I bought into this one (and the Walk of Shame) completely.

I assumed it would be highly unlikely that Coster-Waldau would be allowed to perform the stunt. Otherwise, I would not have noticed.

Grouchy
05-31-2016, 04:27 PM
I got a Kindle as a birthday present (AWESOME birthday present) and I started reading the books. 38% into the first one.

Dukefrukem
06-06-2016, 01:07 AM
Wow. Great intro.I was thinking to myself they almost always go straight into the music intro...something must be up.

Watashi
06-06-2016, 02:36 AM
I thought my HBOGO was messed up because it skipped the intro.

Anyway, incredible episode. Best since Hardhome. Lady Mormont is my favorite character now.

Mara
06-06-2016, 12:54 PM
Lady Mormont is my favorite character now.

She's awesome.

[Spoilers for this episode, obviously.]

I have a double complaint about this otherwise-strong episode: we are given bad (almost tragic) turns for two characters-- Arya and The Hound. And it both cases, these characters have been carefully drawn to be people who absolutely should have seen this all coming.

Arya had to know-- had to know-- that she was a target, but she looked breezy and unconcerned in her scenes until being physically stabbed in the gut. If this is the end of The Waif's story, it's terrible. Waif-girl was set up to be too formidable and clever to be tricked by a little breath-holding, and Arya is too cunning and paranoid to be tricked by a sweet-old-lady routine, especially since she knows her enemies can change their faces. I don't like plot points that depend on characters suddenly being idiots.

Likewise, The Hound (Hi! I missed you!) knows so absolutely that the Brotherhood are coming back for blood that he straight-up tells the septon about it. He is totally clear what is going to happen, and yet wanders off and knifes a tree so enthusiastically that he misses and entire camp being wiped out? Come on.

Lazlo
06-06-2016, 01:03 PM
She's awesome.

[Spoilers for this episode, obviously.]

I have a double complaint about this otherwise-strong episode: we are given bad (almost tragic) turns for two characters-- Arya and The Hound. And it both cases, these characters have been carefully drawn to be people who absolutely should have seen this all coming.

Arya had to know-- had to know-- that she was a target, but she looked breezy and unconcerned in her scenes until being physically stabbed in the gut. If this is the end of The Waif's story, it's terrible. Waif-girl was set up to be too formidable and clever to be tricked by a little breath-holding, and Arya is too cunning and paranoid to be tricked by a sweet-old-lady routine, especially since she knows her enemies can change their faces. I don't like plot points that depend on characters suddenly being idiots.

Likewise, The Hound (Hi! I missed you!) knows so absolutely that the Brotherhood are coming back for blood that he straight-up tells the septon about it. He is totally clear what is going to happen, and yet wanders off and knifes a tree so enthusiastically that he misses and entire camp being wiped out? Come on.

Yeah, these moments landed with a thud. I didn't even get upset at the prospect that Arya could die. It was so rushed and poorly shot. And, yeah, the Waif deserves better. I wanted to see her pursuing Arya all the way to King's Landing.

Everything else with the episode was great. Bronn was the MVP, McShane a close second.

They have done a pretty good job making all the non-North stuff still interesting, even in the face of a zombie horde that will render all this backstabbery and court intrigue moot.

Dukefrukem
06-06-2016, 01:07 PM
Arya had to know-- had to know-- that she was a target, but she looked breezy and unconcerned in her scenes until being physically stabbed in the gut. If this is the end of The Waif's story, it's terrible. Waif-girl was set up to be too formidable and clever to be tricked by a little breath-holding, and Arya is too cunning and paranoid to be tricked by a sweet-old-lady routine, especially since she knows her enemies can change their faces. I don't like plot points that depend on characters suddenly being idiots..

Well we know she knew. She slept with Needle at the end of the last episode. So yes, she was being dumb.

number8
06-06-2016, 01:13 PM
I love the implied tragedy in Davos' speech to Lyanna Mormont. "The real war isn't between a few squabbling houses," he said, to convince someone to join a squabble between two houses.

number8
06-06-2016, 01:14 PM
Likewise, The Hound (Hi! I missed you!) knows so absolutely that the Brotherhood are coming back for blood that he straight-up tells the septon about it. He is totally clear what is going to happen, and yet wanders off and knifes a tree so enthusiastically that he misses and entire camp being wiped out? Come on.

To be fair, they said the night is dark and full of terrors. How was he supposed to know that the day is also full of terrors.

Mara
06-06-2016, 01:18 PM
By the way, two years ago I wouldn't have been able to pick Tobias Mezies out of a crowd and now he's in all the things.

The most distinctive thing about his appearance are those deep lines on both cheeks, which are kind of like dimples but more masculine.

They're so deep that even when he's smeared with grime and being threatened by various Frey men they're clean and white. This amuses me.

number8
06-06-2016, 01:42 PM
That whole scene was kind of hilarious because the Freys look like they came out of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

bac0n
06-06-2016, 02:10 PM
I don't think we've seen the last of The Waif. I'm thinking she's been wanting to take Arya out since day one, and she's going to be savoring a little game of cat and mouse with her.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Regarding Arya, the waif knows that she didn't follow through on the assassination of the actress because she was spying on her. Arya doesn't know that. She assumes that Jaqen (or whoever he is) still thinks she's out on the mission and can escape before he realizes. I do think it's within Arya's established character to be so confident that she fails to take this into account.

I have a bigger issue with the fact that the waif was told not to let her suffer and she ended up stabbing her in a place that seems contrary to that instruction. So did the waif do that intentionally? Wouldn't she have a way of taking out an unsuspecting girl more cleanly than that?

These things tend to get explained in time, but it's a question I have right now.

Highlight for me was Olenna pondering whether Cersei was the worst person she'd ever met. Hilarious.

Dukefrukem
06-06-2016, 03:12 PM
If the waif is such a great assassin, how and why did she let Arya fall into the water without confirming her death? Seems sloppy since Arya threw herself into the water.

bac0n
06-06-2016, 03:16 PM
If the waif is such a great assassin, how and why did she let Arya fall into the water without confirming her death? Seems sloppy since Arya threw herself into the water.

It just plays into my previously stated theory that The Waif is playing with Arya, and in so doing ignoring Jaqen's instructions (which might in the end be Arya's salvation).

Spinal
06-06-2016, 03:40 PM
My understanding is that the waif is still in training as well, although further along than Arya. Part of the rivalry surely comes from the fact that Arya was catching up. All this to say that it leaves room for 'unprofessionalism' and we'll probably have our answer within a few episodes as to why the attempt on Arya's life went as it did. I think bac0n may be onto something.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 04:06 PM
(spoiler for something that happens in the books, which may or may not happen on the show soon)

At this point, it seems awfully likely that we're heading towards Lady Stoneheart. It would fit the pattern of the producers fully committing to cast deaths and denying their eventual return. And why else would Brienne be heading to the Riverlands? I can't imagine that it's solely for the stated purpose of getting the Blackfish on board.

number8
06-06-2016, 04:13 PM
I think you're right, but it's entirely possible that it's just setting up a Brienne/Jamie reunion.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 04:16 PM
I think you're right, but it's entirely possible that it's just setting up a Brienne/Jamie reunion.

Tormund is not gonna like that.

Grouchy
06-06-2016, 05:36 PM
Agreed with Mara - Arya's scene was ridiculous. She should have been paranoid as all fuck, not calmly waiting for death on the streets.

Otherwise I think this is one of the best episodes of the entire series. Lady Mormont is a great new character and Olenna still has the sharpest tongue in Westeros.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 05:52 PM
Agreed with Mara - Arya's scene was ridiculous. She should have been paranoid as all fuck, not calmly waiting for death on the streets.


Maybe. But Arya has also been defined as a character who has confidence and poise in situations where she should rightly be cowering in fear. Awful things have tended to happen to everyone around her, but she's mostly stayed away from too much physical harm because people don't think it's worth their time to attack a young girl. What I think that scene conveyed was that her grace period is over and that her bubble is burst.

Or, you know, maybe she's dead. *deadpan emoji*

Mara
06-06-2016, 07:11 PM
Another addition to "Actors I Didn't Recognize on Game of Thrones Because of Changes to Hair Color": UnREAL's narcissistic bachelor Freddie Stroma as Sam's smug younger brother Dickon.

He was also only visible for three seconds by candlelight, in my defense.

number8
06-06-2016, 07:17 PM
That was him? That's funny. Dude's gonna be typecast as handsome privileged pricks.

Didn't he also play a rich kid in Harry Potter?

Watashi
06-06-2016, 08:41 PM
I hope Yara's sexuality is foreshadowing she will seduce Daenerys and they will rule the Seven Kingdoms together.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 08:51 PM
Hot Pie will sit on the Iron Throne. Pastries for the people. Everyone loves pastries.

number8
06-06-2016, 09:01 PM
Hot Pie will sit on the Iron Throne. Pastries for the people. Everyone loves pastries.

Everyone?

"It's not fuckin' chicken."

Ezee E
06-06-2016, 10:06 PM
Depending on the time that's occurred between Arya sleeping in the darkness with "Needle" and the purchase for the ship, I could possibly buy that she thinks that she's safe, and was obviously caught off guard. Of course, we as a viewer, saw this happening a mile away with how the screen was framed.

At this point, I think she may be OVERLY paranoid after that walk down the street, that at any moment, someone was going to finish her off.

I also REALLY like the theory that Arya IS The Waif, and what we're seeing is her transition into No One.

Spinal
06-06-2016, 11:20 PM
I also REALLY like the theory that Arya IS The Waif, and what we're seeing is her transition into No One.

That is clever, but also makes absolutely no sense. So, Arya is attempting to assassinate herself? Like a Fight Club thing?

number8
06-06-2016, 11:52 PM
Yeah the popular fan theory is that she's Arya's split personality.

Ezee E
06-07-2016, 01:30 AM
That is clever, but also makes absolutely no sense. So, Arya is attempting to assassinate herself? Like a Fight Club thing?

There's a good shot when she's fighting The Waif blind where it cuts to a faraway shot and she's swinging a stick with absolutely nobody around.

The Waif has conversed with nobody in Braavos except Jaqen. Nobody has even looked at her. Pretty interesting.

If this were the case, the reveal of it will be important for the very reason you suggest, because it could come off quite dumb.

Spinal
06-07-2016, 02:57 AM
But what would the point of this be? How does this contribute to the larger story? OK, so Arya has a split personality. Now what?

Ezee E
06-07-2016, 03:24 AM
But what would the point of this be? How does this contribute to the larger story? OK, so Arya has a split personality. Now what?

I'm not sure. I haven't seen what will happen here. So she'd work for the Many-Faced God, and leads to another direction? What's Arya's plan when she returns to King's Landing? Continue vengeance?

Spinal
06-07-2016, 04:00 AM
She just needs to bend the knee to Hot Pie. That's all I know.

Ezee E
06-07-2016, 04:16 AM
By the way, something else has occurred to me.

Why the hell would the entire city of Braavos do little to nothing with a little girl that had her guts stabbed? Has this not dawned on anyone??

Dukefrukem
06-07-2016, 12:22 PM
I'm starting to like this theory more and more now.

She was basically doing a Tyler Durden walking through the streets... the towns folks see nothing wrong and wonder, why is she walking funny? Why is she wet?

Gizmo
06-08-2016, 02:33 PM
I am Jack's sense of confusion.

Mara
06-08-2016, 02:46 PM
I get the theory-- that there is a part of her personality that has surrendered completely to the Faceless Men, who is Nobody, A Girl, the perfect acolyte, but there is another part that is still Arya Stark, who still has loyalty and vengeance and love and rage. And the Nobody part of her hates the Arya part and fights against it, and tries to subdue, beat, and kill it. It would explain some things.

But in the years that GOT has been on the air it hasn't established itself as the kind of show where something like that would happen. Magic, yes. Visions, yes. But complicated psychological crises manifesting themselves as individuals? Mental illness bleeding into the waking world? No, not really.

I think the characters are dramatic foils for each other, but I'm kind of hoping it's not literal.

Spinal
06-08-2016, 03:36 PM
I'm with Mara. It just doesn't feel like Martin's style to me.

But just about every other fan theory has seemed to pan out so far, so who knows?

Ezee E
06-08-2016, 10:46 PM
Whatever the case, I like that the next episode is called "No One." I like the idea of Arya getting more than two bits in an episode.

Grouchy
06-09-2016, 07:22 PM
Why the hell would the entire city of Braavos do little to nothing with a little girl that had her guts stabbed? Has this not dawned on anyone??
That scene reminded me of the opening paragraphs of Chronicle of a Death Foretold.

Spinal
06-11-2016, 05:20 AM
I think I pinpointed what makes me skeptical about the Arya/Waif theory. Those scenes are written from Arya's perspective in the books. So, while it's a twist that you could set up in a TV show, I'm not really sure how you could mask your intentions in a book that is written from the P.O.V. of the character in question.

Ezee E
06-11-2016, 11:25 AM
I think I pinpointed what makes me skeptical about the Arya/Waif theory. Those scenes are written from Arya's perspective in the books. So, while it's a twist that you could set up in a TV show, I'm not really sure how you could mask your intentions in a book that is written from the P.O.V. of the character in question.

Any differences in book to TV from these scenes?

Gizmo
06-11-2016, 12:10 PM
Because Tyler Durden wasn't also written in a book from a Narrators' perspective?

Dukefrukem
06-13-2016, 02:02 AM
I choose violence.

Spinal
06-13-2016, 02:51 AM
I like this direction for Sandor so much more than what has been speculated online.

Watashi
06-13-2016, 05:38 AM
If that's really the end of the Arya/Bravos storyline, that was a waste.

Meh episode. It's so good to have Sandor back as a regular.

Still thinking we get Stoneheart in the finale.

Ezee E
06-13-2016, 06:25 AM
Pretty weak ending in Braavos indeed if that's the case. Especially for the House of White and Black's angle.

Ezee E
06-13-2016, 06:40 AM
Best scene in this was Cersei's reaction as she's betrayed by her son and basically becoming a "no one" to King's Landing. Great performance.

With the way things are going, the Wall is going to come down along with King's Landing.

Gizmo
06-13-2016, 12:29 PM
yeah, every theory to the Arya storyline was better than what played out. Basically 2 years of her learning to fight better in the dark.

DavidSeven
06-13-2016, 03:02 PM
I appreciate when the show tries to give us moments of levity, but I really cannot believe "x, y, and z walk into a bar" followed by a "two people on a boat" joke made it through the writers' room. What's next? Pop culture references? I don't understand how they're writing Grey Worm -- I don't think there's any consistency there, and the attempt to give him an arc feels clumsy.

I did enjoy the episode overall, and am just happy that Arya will (hopefully) re-enter the mix. Lena Headey reads one-liners better than anyone.

Mara
06-13-2016, 03:16 PM
Arya's always been better than her storylines. Remember when she wandered in the meadows for, like, three years?

(It might have only felt like three years.)

Spinal
06-13-2016, 04:35 PM
Yeah, I'm still trying to work out the Arya scenes. I think something's been lost in the adaptation. I gather that the point is supposed to be that to the House of Black and White, it does not matter that Arya wasn't the one who killed the actress. The actress died. And it also doesn't matter that Arya was not the one whose face ended up on the wall. As long as the debt is paid, it makes no difference. But the math doesn't work out. They wanted one death and got two. So does that one get applied as credit to the next death requested by the Many-Faced God? Are they running a tab? The candle bit was clever, but we can't truly be expected to believe that's the completion of training, can we? And after Jaqen's imperceptible assassinations at Harrenhall, it's confusing that we see a long unsubtle, blood-stained chase through the streets. Although I liked the way it was shot, I didn't really get it from a writing perspective.

Spinal
06-13-2016, 04:37 PM
I appreciate when the show tries to give us moments of levity, but I really cannot believe "x, y, and z walk into a bar" followed by a "two people on a boat" joke made it through the writers' room. What's next? Pop culture references? I don't understand how they're writing Grey Worm -- I don't think there's any consistency there, and the attempt to give him an arc feels clumsy.


I really can't believe that we had another 'Grey Worm and Missandei just need to loosen up' scene. I didn't feel like it worked the first time and this time was even more awkward.

Grouchy
06-13-2016, 06:55 PM
So far I don't know what to make of the Arya storyline either. It's... kind of pointless? Also, holy gut stab healing powers, Batman.

Spinal, remember that Jaqen owes Arya his life so that might be why he's letting go of her so easily.

Spinal
06-13-2016, 08:53 PM
Spinal, remember that Jaqen owes Arya his life so that might be why he's letting go of her so easily.

Jaqen's debt to Arya was already paid. He helped her escape from Harrenhall. My impression is that she arrives at Braavos with a clean slate. Neither owes the other anything. And when she arrives, the person with Jaqen's face claims that he is not in fact Jaqen, but No One.

So this leads to the question of why she was invited there in the first place, what she learned and why she has been allowed to leave. So far we know that she was asked to kill someone twice and both times went rogue. She was asked to kill 'the thin man', but instead killed Meryn Trant. She was asked to kill the actress, refused, and made plans to go home. Ultimately, she killed the waif once she was pursued.

After Arya killed Trant, someone with Jaqen's face swallowed poison to pay the debt. Arya took several masks off of that body, ending up with her own. Another person appeared with Jaqen's face behind her, (formerly the waif?). It's like a game of three-card monty here and I am not even sure that Arya is Arya. Is it possible that the House of Black and White hijacked her identity for their own purpose and the real Arya is dead?

Probably not. But I can't really understand why you would go through all the trouble of talking about how we're going to break down your personality and then have Arya leave with a few more skills, but essentially the same person. Thematically it's not terribly interesting, unless there is something else to this story we haven't seen yet.

Russ
06-13-2016, 10:05 PM
...unless there is something else to this story we haven't seen yet.
Without which, its all been a colossal waste of time.

Ezee E
06-13-2016, 11:38 PM
Yeah, I'm still trying to work out the Arya scenes. I think something's been lost in the adaptation. I gather that the point is supposed to be that to the House of Black and White, it does not matter that Arya wasn't the one who killed the actress. The actress died. And it also doesn't matter that Arya was not the one whose face ended up on the wall. As long as the debt is paid, it makes no difference. But the math doesn't work out. They wanted one death and got two. So does that one get applied as credit to the next death requested by the Many-Faced God? Are they running a tab? The candle bit was clever, but we can't truly be expected to believe that's the completion of training, can we? And after Jaqen's imperceptible assassinations at Harrenhall, it's confusing that we see a long unsubtle, blood-stained chase through the streets. Although I liked the way it was shot, I didn't really get it from a writing perspective.

I thought it was Jaqen just trying to sway Arya into rejoining, or not kill him, rather than actually a completion of training.

It simply ended all too easy. It would've been far better if Arya had to sleep in the darkness until that boat left, only to be paranoid that the House would forever be after her. WHat's her plan now when she returns to Westeros? Try and live in Winterfell?

Raiders
06-14-2016, 02:22 AM
I always thought the show kind of intentionally made the whole religious belief / code of the House of Black and White somewhat impenetrable. We only ever really know what Arya knows, which isn't much. It's a cult of assassins who essentially collect the faces of those they are paid to kill, all for the "will" of the Many Faced God. A face is a face after all.

I liked the scene itself between Jaqen and Arya as I think it slyly humanized him and showed that in the end, he may not truly have wanted her to become "no one." He did previously ask that she not suffer after all, which would seem contrary to his detachment from the will of the MFG.

The issue is that I just don't know what any of it really matters. I mean, if she had just spent more time with The Hound, it seems like she could have developed the same fighting skills... so why did we go through that??? I can only imagine that Arya is the ultimate "long game" in this show and that all of this is leading her to some important moment, but I don't know what it could possibly be.

Watashi
06-14-2016, 07:46 AM
I think the only reasonable endgame for Arya is to reunite with The Hound and kill Cersei.

number8
06-14-2016, 02:08 PM
I liked the scene itself between Jaqen and Arya as I think it slyly humanized him and showed that in the end, he may not truly have wanted her to become "no one." He did previously ask that she not suffer after all, which would seem contrary to his detachment from the will of the MFG.

His smirk really struck me as a "Excellent, because I actually meant this to happen all along, no really, I am a genius troll" smirk and if that's what the writers intended, I call bullshit.

number8
06-14-2016, 02:10 PM
Still thinking we get Stoneheart in the finale.

I thought the focus on the Hound peeing in the lake was a clear signal of D&D shutting that hope down.

Spinal
06-14-2016, 02:29 PM
I think the only reasonable endgame for Arya is to reunite with The Hound and kill Cersei.

What about this?

Cersei doesn't like the verdict from the Septons. Cersei blows up King's Landing with wildfire. Cersei needs someplace to escape. Who does she call? Littlefinger. Littlefinger takes her to the Eyrie to hide. We know she's up there, but we can't get our armies through. The Eyrie is impenetrable!

Arya: "No problem."

Spinal
06-14-2016, 02:56 PM
Just realized that the Battle of the Bastards will air on Father's Day. Well played, HBO.

Grouchy
06-14-2016, 03:53 PM
It seems we are all in agreement here. Either the Arya storyline is brilliant for reasons as of yet unknown to us or it's a bloody waste of time.

I hope she at least burglarized a few faces from the Wall cause the Zatoichi bit she'd already learned from Sylvio Forel.

Grouchy
06-14-2016, 05:10 PM
I did like her Magallanes moment where she wonders what happens after all the maps end.

Russ
06-14-2016, 08:50 PM
Just realized that the Battle of the Bastards will air on Father's Day. Well played, HBO.
Prediction: I haven't read any of the books, but I predict a House Stark defeat -- I mean, it seems predictable, right? They don't have enough pieces in place (yet); their defeat (embodied probably by Jon's retreat) provides this season's cliffhanger (Sansa will almost certainly be recaptured), and next season they get to regroup with any number of the other major players.

Watashi
06-14-2016, 09:27 PM
Prediction: I haven't read any of the books, but I predict a House Stark defeat -- I mean, it seems predictable, right? They don't have enough pieces in place (yet); their defeat (embodied probably by Jon's retreat) provides this season's cliffhanger (Sansa will almost certainly be recaptured), and next season they get to regroup with any number of the other major players.

They'll suffer a lot, but the Knights of Vale will come sweeping in at the last second. Ramsay will be captured and Sansa will chop off his head. Their victory will be cut short when they receive word that the White Walkers have stormed the Wall and are invading the North. I haven't seen any previews but this is just speculation. I don't think D&D have any more sadistic twists in store for us. No way does Ramsay survive this.

However I could see a total King's Landing massacre with Tommen and Margarey being slaughtered. By the end of this season, the Wall and King's Landing could be both in ruins.
[/spoiler]

Spinal
06-14-2016, 10:00 PM
Yeah, I have to think Ramsay is done on Sunday. I mean, he's cut off a guy's dick. He's raped a virgin. He's killed his own father. He's given a baby to dogs to be eaten. I just can't imagine that he's got anywhere else to go from there.

Ezee E
06-14-2016, 10:31 PM
Agreed. Then they can focus on Khaleesi making the journey to Westeros, the Walkers advancing South, and maybe Euron becomes the main villain?

Rickon, Wun Wun, and Tormund will probably all die as well :(

Watashi
06-14-2016, 11:27 PM
I swear if Ghost dies....

Ezee E
06-15-2016, 01:07 AM
I swear if Ghost dies....

...I didn't want to bring up the possibility.

amberlita
06-15-2016, 04:13 AM
While admittedly that was a lot of squeeze for not much juice, I think the purpose of Arya's storyline was to find a reasonably legit way for her to survive in this world. She was, what...twelve years old when this began? Younger? She couldn't really fight. She was never apt to use her station as a means of survival like Sansa. She was always going to continue to get herself into trouble because of her fierce spirit. She needed some time to mature emotionally and physically and she learned some survival skills as well or I never would believe she'd avoid being killed in Westeros without the aid of someone like Jaqen or the Hound around.

Grouchy
06-15-2016, 04:10 PM
While admittedly that was a lot of squeeze for not much juice, I think the purpose of Arya's storyline was to find a reasonably legit way for her to survive in this world. She was, what...twelve years old when this began? Younger? She couldn't really fight. She was never apt to use her station as a means of survival like Sansa. She was always going to continue to get herself into trouble because of her fierce spirit. She needed some time to mature emotionally and physically and she learned some survival skills as well or I never would believe she'd avoid being killed in Westeros without the aid of someone like Jaqen or the Hound around.
That's right. The problem is that all those beats had already been played in the past. Up to that point Arya had been collecting reluctant father figures (Joren, Tywinn, and then the Hound for a long time) and learning from each one even though she should naturally hate them. The journey to Braavos and the Faceless Men is sort of the culmination of that. If it ends with Arya beating one of them and resigning, what was really the point? I guess it served as a re-affirmation of her Stark identity, but she never really had any problems with that. She only wanted to give up her identity to obtain face-changing powers.

Spinal
06-15-2016, 08:59 PM
Did it seem strange to anyone else that the Waif didn't know how to fight in the dark? How is it that Arya had more training than her? Or is the training specialized towards the individual? I keep hoping reflection will settle my questions about this storyline, but I just keep coming up with more questions.

Dukefrukem
06-15-2016, 09:11 PM
Did it seem strange to anyone else that the Waif didn't know how to fight in the dark? How is it that Arya had more training than her? Or is the training specialized towards the individual? I keep hoping reflection will settle my questions about this storyline, but I just keep coming up with more questions.

No. I assume the Waif didn't insult the multi-face god and punished/forced to live blind for x-weeks.

Scar
06-15-2016, 10:14 PM
No. I assume the Waif didn't insult the multi-face god and punished/forced to live blind for x-weeks.

This.

Spinal
06-15-2016, 11:06 PM
No, I get that. But isn't it weird that punishment = more training that others haven't received? Punishment is a reward.

bac0n
06-16-2016, 09:04 PM
Pretty sure the unmentioned wildcard factor who could sway the finale in any direction is Hot Pie.

Spinal
06-16-2016, 09:31 PM
Pretty sure the unmentioned wildcard factor who could sway the finale in any direction is Hot Pie.

He will bake up Tommen in a delicious lion-shaped pastry and make Cersei eat it.

Seriously though, with the Brotherhood without Banners making their return to the mix, I wonder if that means the return of ...

Gendry. Could be where he ended up after leaving Dragonstone.

bac0n
06-17-2016, 04:13 AM
Last I heard, he was headed back towards King's Landing...

number8
06-17-2016, 03:10 PM
Still R-O-W-I-N-G.

Henry Gale
06-20-2016, 03:34 AM
Hahaha.. Remember when we all thought Blackwater was a massive episode?!

Wheeeewww.

Spinal
06-20-2016, 04:08 AM
Nailed it. One of the most completely satisfying and exciting episodes of the series. The dragons and the battle deserve much praise. But in the midst of everything else, let's not forget how awesome that Daenerys-Yara summit was.

Spinal
06-20-2016, 04:19 AM
Also ...


Tyrion brought up the wildfire again. Yeah, King's Landing is gonna burn.

Ramsay tells Sansa that he will always be a part of her. Time to get a pregnancy test!

Lazlo
06-20-2016, 04:46 AM
Also ...


Tyrion brought up the wildfire again. Yeah, King's Landing is gonna burn.

Ramsay tells Sansa that he will always be a part of her. Time to get a pregnancy test!



It's been months and months since she escaped Winterfell. She'd be about to give birth. I think he just knows the psychological toll he's taken.

Hell of an episode.

Spinal
06-20-2016, 04:49 AM
It's been months and months since she escaped Winterfell. She'd be about to give birth. I think he just knows the psychological toll he's taken.

Well, I mean, winters last generations in Westeros. Maybe pregnancies last 5 years. :)

Watashi
06-20-2016, 04:58 AM
Tormund lives!

bac0n
06-20-2016, 05:01 AM
That's the most satisfying hour of television I've watched in years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

number8
06-20-2016, 11:51 AM
I expected a big battle episode and went to watch it in a bar with a crowd. It was the perfect atmosphere.

Kinda funny that on the walk to the one bar in my neighborhood still showing it, we passed several bars that used to but was showing some kind of basketball last night instead.

Mara
06-20-2016, 12:01 PM
This was amazing.

Hey, Rickon, you can make yourself a much smaller target by LYING DOWN.

Hey, Jon, helmets were invented for a reason. They help keep your head from being crushed and protect your pretty curls!

My dearest wish is now to have Daenerys, Yara, and Lady Alanna Mormont all in a room admiring one another.

Henry Gale
06-20-2016, 12:22 PM
My dearest wish is now to have Daenerys, Yara, and Lady Alanna Mormont all in a room admiring one another.[/spoiler]

I'm not sure it would be suitable for Lyanna (isn't it?) to be in the room considering the way Dany and Yara were hinting at potentially "admiring" each other in this episode.

Someone floated the idea of them getting together after last week's episode and it hit me as a fun/funny thought, but this week I was like "Oh wow this is actually happening."

bac0n
06-20-2016, 12:47 PM
This was amazing.

Hey, Rickon, you can make yourself a much smaller target by LYING DOWN.

Or better yet, RUN IN A ZIG-ZAG!!! ZIIIIIIIG ZAAAAAAAAAG!

number8
06-20-2016, 01:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpNU3WumPFQ

Spinal
06-20-2016, 02:42 PM
I don't know how many of those 62 men survived, but I'm pretty sure that Bear Island is now ripe for the taking.

Lazlo
06-20-2016, 02:56 PM
Best filmed medieval war battle? I think probably so.

number8
06-20-2016, 03:35 PM
I don't know how many of those 62 men survived, but I'm pretty sure that Bear Island is now ripe for the taking.

Would be funny if the thousands that died were mostly wildlings and such, and only 1 or 2 Mormont bannermen died.

Bears noting, though, that the reason why Bear Island has a strong culture of warrior women is because during fishing seasons all the men are out at sea for weeks and the women were left defending the island against raids. So they'll probably be fine.

Spinal
06-20-2016, 03:54 PM
I think Theon's line should be the new euphemism for someone describing their inadequate genitals: I am "unfit to rule".

Spinal
06-20-2016, 04:53 PM
Yeah, I have to think Ramsay is done on Sunday. I mean, he's cut off a guy's dick. He's raped a virgin. He's killed his own father. He's given a baby to dogs to be eaten. I just can't imagine that he's got anywhere else to go from there.

Managed to knock 'kill a Stark' and 'kill a giant' off his bucket list before the end. I stand corrected.

Scar
06-20-2016, 08:45 PM
I'm not sure it would be suitable for Lyanna (isn't it?) to be in the room considering the way Dany and Yara were hinting at potentially "admiring" each other in this episode.

Someone floated the idea of them getting together after last week's episode and it hit me as a fun/funny thought, but this week I was like "Oh wow this is actually happening."

Swore I saw that Lyanna died in the battle. Thought they showed her corpse for a beat or two after the battle.

Will rewatch the episode in a few to confirm.

amberlita
06-20-2016, 10:58 PM
Wow guys. I thought that whole thing was quite a let down, actually. Technically impressive but dramatically not. It was as by the numbers as any battle I've ever seen. Underdog story conveniently set up by a ridiculous premise: that for no good reason at all, Sansa would withhold information about Littlefinger's army coming. Why wouldn't she say something? If he isn't planning to show up in time Jon might delay the fight. Jesus all he had to do was wait a few hours and probably save hundreds of willing lives with an extra 2,000 men on horseback. And let's face it we all knew that army was coming so it was just a matter of hoping people don't die while we wait for the big reveal. No suspense at all. Terrible excuse to give Sansa some sort of hero role? What the hell? Hack writing masked by visual spectacle.

Ezee E
06-21-2016, 12:24 AM
Wow guys. I thought that whole thing was quite a let down, actually. Technically impressive but dramatically not. It was as by the numbers as any battle I've ever seen. Underdog story conveniently set up by a ridiculous premise: that for no good reason at all, Sansa would withhold information about Littlefinger's army coming. Why wouldn't she say something? If he isn't planning to show up in time Jon might delay the fight. Jesus all he had to do was wait a few hours and probably save hundreds of willing lives with an extra 2,000 men on horseback. And let's face it we all knew that army was coming so it was just a matter of hoping people don't die while we wait for the big reveal. No suspense at all. Terrible excuse to give Sansa some sort of hero role? What the hell? Hack writing masked by visual spectacle.

This is about right, but it was so well directed that I was enthralled by it all.

But yeah, I don't get Sansa's withholding of information, especially after her argument with Jon. Poor Rickon. Stark character that probably had about five minutes of screen time in the entire series.

Ramsay remained a perfect kind of evil still. Well played from beginning to end.

Scar
06-21-2016, 12:48 AM
Swore I saw that Lyanna died in the battle. Thought they showed her corpse for a beat or two after the battle.

Will rewatch the episode in a few to confirm.

Disregard.

bac0n
06-21-2016, 03:09 AM
My guess is that Sansa is not too fond of Littlefinger, and she was hoping against hope that Jon would recruit enough warriors that the Knights of the Vale wouldn't be needed and she could never have to speak to Littlefinger again, and that is why she didn't bring up the fact that they were coming - she didn't want Jon to just say, "Oh, we have a shitload of mounted warriors coming? what the hell am I begging to this 8-year-old for?"

Spinal
06-21-2016, 03:18 AM
Remember this is Littlefinger we're talking about. He's a complete wild card. Sansa took a huge risk by reaching out to him, considering he could just as easily have helped Ramsay. Jon is a seasoned commander and fighter. Sansa is Sansa. Her act could have been seen as subordination (like Catelyn when she acted without Robb's knowledge). She could have had huge doubts that she was doing the right thing. She could have not wanted Jon to plan on Littlefinger's participation, knowing it was a long shot. There are any number of reasons for her to have acted in secret. The show makes these possibilities clear.

And while a viewer might anticipate Littlefinger's arrival to turn the tide, this is his first overt move in a long game he's been playing since BEFORE THE EVENTS OF EPISODE ONE. It was anything but a sure thing. I think this was a superb episode that offers payoffs that have been a long time coming.

EDIT: Didn't see bac0n's post before writing this. But yes, that too.

amberlita
06-21-2016, 03:21 AM
My guess is that Sansa is not too fond of Littlefinger, and she was hoping against hope that Jon would recruit enough warriors that the Knights of the Vale wouldn't be needed and she could never have to speak to Littlefinger again, and that is why she didn't bring up the fact that they were coming - she didn't want Jon to just say, "Oh, we have a shitload of mounted warriors coming? what the hell am I begging to this 8-year-old for?"

I'm talking about right before the battle. It was one or two episodes ago that she called on Littlefinger with that raven. While I am all in favor of empowering Sansa, and I think they've done a fairly good job of rectifying the injustices done upon her last season, they seemed to try to push it too far last night, turning Jon into an idiot so that Sansa can look like the smart one. Have her warn Jon that Ramsay will try to manipulate him and beg him not to fall for it...only to watch him fall for it. Have her warn Jon that they need more men and then watch him fail on the battlefield because they don't have enough men, setting her up to save the day as she and Gandalf ride in with the Rohirrim Littlefinger ride in with the Knights of the Vale. All conveniently set up by a mind-boggling decision for her to not even mention that she asked for a couple thousand extra men and maybe they could give them another day or two to see if they show up?

(speaking of, any reason why the Vale was not on Jon's list of houses to request help from?)

amberlita
06-21-2016, 03:31 AM
Remember this is Littlefinger we're talking about. He's a complete wild card. Sansa took a huge risk by reaching out to him, considering he could just as easily have helped Ramsay. Jon is a seasoned commander and fighter. Sansa is Sansa. Her act could have been seen as subordination (like Catelyn when she acted without Robb's knowledge). She could have had huge doubts that she was doing the right thing. She could have not wanted Jon to plan on Littlefinger's participation, knowing it was a long shot. There are any number of reasons for her to have acted in secret. The show makes these possibilities clear.

And while a viewer might anticipate Littlefinger's arrival to turn the tide, this is his first overt move in a long game he's been playing since BEFORE THE EVENTS OF EPISODE ONE. It was anything but a sure thing. I think this was a superb episode that offers payoffs that have been a long time coming.

EDIT: Didn't see bac0n's post before writing this. But yes, that too.

It does? How so, aside from simply not providing any explanation at all and thus leaving this up for broad speculation as to what her motivations could possibly have been. Subordination? They make the point of stating that Jon is not a king the way Robb was. And Jon literally asks her what she thinks he should do and it's mums the word.

Does she have little love and less trust for Littlefinger? Sure. But that entire argument about lacking enough men would have made a hell of a lot more sense if it was about whether or not they should trust that Littlefinger would show up rather than about whether they had enough men because Sansa inexplicably doesn't tell him he might have another 2,000 coming.

Seems obvious to me why this was done: because it seemingly makes for a more dramatic ending to have the underdog army all but beaten until the reserves come in to turn the tide. It's not exactly a unique scenario and only accomplishes it by a baffling cheat in the story. It's just hard for me to be as satisfied as everyone else seems to be in this thread with writing that lazy and conventional.

number8
06-21-2016, 04:08 AM
Are we supposed to assume that Sansa knew they were coming? These people communicate by flimsily tying torn parchments on birds and letting them fly off, hoping against all fuckery that there isn't any connection error (aka arrows). It's not like we saw her getting a read receipt or one of those three blinking dots indicating that Baelish was composing a reply.

Ezee E
06-21-2016, 04:30 AM
Are we supposed to assume that Sansa knew they were coming? These people communicate by flimsily tying torn parchments on birds and letting them fly off, hoping against all fuckery that there isn't any connection error (aka arrows). It's not like we saw her getting a read receipt or one of those three blinking dots indicating that Baelish was composing a reply.

LOL!

At the least, awaiting some type of response would've been understood I think. I'm sure Littlefinger could take the whole area if he wanted at this point with his army. So what is his goal here you think?

And something big has to happen with the Freys next week. I can't imagine they'll just rave about expanding their land and bonding with the powerless Lannisters.

DavidSeven
06-21-2016, 05:30 AM
Tremendous episode.

They've done some really bad, deathly boring battle episodes, usually coming around this time in the season. I thought they did this one right, finally finding the right balance of drama, spectacle and stakes. Helps that the scenes outside of Winterfell were really strong, too.

amberlita
06-21-2016, 05:59 AM
Are we supposed to assume that Sansa knew they were coming? These people communicate by flimsily tying torn parchments on birds and letting them fly off, hoping against all fuckery that there isn't any connection error (aka arrows). It's not like we saw her getting a read receipt or one of those three blinking dots indicating that Baelish was composing a reply.


Har har but why the hell would she even need such knowledge to simply mention the fucking possibility of more men coming so Jon could, I dunno, weigh some options? "Hey Jon, I don't trust him any further than I can throw him, but he did promise to help, I sent for him, maybe we could wait a day or two and maybe you could stop shitting all over my ideas about having more men as ludicrously futile because, actually, there ARE more men we could get." It could still be a compelling scenario while avoiding the plot contrivance. Jon and Co. determine they can't afford to wait because I dunno Ramsay offers Rickon's balls in a basket to Jon at the parlay or whatever. Can easily remove the plot contrivance that undermines the entire battle's premise.

Greater writing sins have been committed and I could ignore this one if it: a.) wasn't totally unnecessary, and b.) didn't make either Jon or Sansa look like a moron.

Anyway...the Mereen summit was pretty sweet.

Watashi
06-21-2016, 06:18 AM
My only problem with this season is the complete lack of scope of travel around Westeros. In the books and in early seasons, you get an idea how many days/months it takes to get from Winterfell to the Wall or to Kings Landing. Nowadays, Yara made it all the way to Mereen in an episode and a half. I wouldn't be surprised if Arya is already in Winterfell by the next episode.

Raiders
06-21-2016, 10:10 AM
I think it is best we not judge Sansa's actions just yet. Perhaps amber will prove right that it was just some dramatic malarky that she doesn't say anything... but also perhaps she was considering that if the Knights of the Vale do actually show up, it would be best for her if Jon and his wildling army were destroyed first, leaving her an uncontested ruler of the North with her "allies" from the Eyrie the only ones left standing. She didn't exactly look happy Jon survived.

Littlefinger is also the one who betrayed Ned and cost him his life and really started this whole thing. It is possible that Sansa just didn't know how to tell Jon she had turned to their "frenemy" for some help when she has no idea whether he will be there or not. She's not a brilliant strategist, and she has already not told Jon the whole truth before.

number8
06-21-2016, 12:21 PM
My only problem with this season is the complete lack of scope of travel around Westeros. In the books and in early seasons, you get an idea how many days/months it takes to get from Winterfell to the Wall or to Kings Landing. Nowadays, Yara made it all the way to Mereen in an episode and a half. I wouldn't be surprised if Arya is already in Winterfell by the next episode.

I read the writers addressing this. They said the stories do not actually chronologically line up in any given episode, because they tried doing that and it essentially means you won't get to see certain characters for several episodes while they're traveling. So you're not really watching events that are happening concurrently.

EDIT: Found it. Here it is.


The timelines between the various storylines don’t necessarily line up within a given episode. For instance, the “Northern Tour” Jon and Sansa embark on would probably take a couple weeks, but Arya’s storyline over the past few episodes only spans a few days. We realized a while ago that if we tied ourselves in knots trying to make all the “story days” line up between all the characters the momentum would suffer.

amberlita
06-21-2016, 01:24 PM
I think it is best we not judge Sansa's actions just yet. Perhaps amber will prove right that it was just some dramatic malarky that she doesn't say anything... but also perhaps she was considering that if the Knights of the Vale do actually show up, it would be best for her if Jon and his wildling army were destroyed first, leaving her an uncontested ruler of the North with her "allies" from the Eyrie the only ones left standing. She didn't exactly look happy Jon survived.

Littlefinger is also the one who betrayed Ned and cost him his life and really started this whole thing. It is possible that Sansa just didn't know how to tell Jon she had turned to their "frenemy" for some help when she has no idea whether he will be there or not. She's not a brilliant strategist, and she has already not told Jon the whole truth before.

Hmmmm. Interesting theory. Sansa turns heel.

DavidSeven
06-21-2016, 03:06 PM
I read the writers addressing this. They said the stories do not actually chronologically line up in any given episode, because they tried doing that and it essentially means you won't get to see certain characters for several episodes while they're traveling. So you're not really watching events that are happening concurrently.

EDIT: Found it. Here it is.

I think they wasted good chunks of several seasons on showing us nothing but people walking from X to Y before being diverted to Z, so I'm pretty grateful that they're willing to cheat a bit on this now.

Spinal
06-21-2016, 03:49 PM
It does? How so, aside from simply not providing any explanation at all and thus leaving this up for broad speculation as to what her motivations could possibly have been. Subordination? They make the point of stating that Jon is not a king the way Robb was. And Jon literally asks her what she thinks he should do and it's mums the word.

I'm not sure why we need to know her motives precisely right now. The writers have raised several possibilities based on careful character building. It's OK that it's not explicit. It's OK that we are left to discuss it at this point in the story. We know for a fact that Littlefinger is a liar and a backstabber. We know for a fact that Sansa does not want his help because he was an accessory to her torment at Ramsay's hands. We know that it is only desperation that causes her to write the letter with no guarantee that anything will come of it. In fact, as I said before, Littlefinger showing up was highly unlikely (in the world of the story, not necessarily to us as viewers) considering that he has operated almost entirely in stealth mode previously. We know that Sansa is a young woman who took a chance without consulting any of the more seasoned military minds that were in the area (Jon, Davos, Tormund, Brienne, etc.) Clearly she didn't want others to know about her connection to Littlefinger. And it's OK for us to be left speculating. The writers have offered us plenty to ponder.

And if you don't like an army sweeping in at the last minute to save the day, you may be watching the wrong story. It's unabashed melodrama. That kind of thing is going to happen.

Spinal
06-21-2016, 03:54 PM
Littlefinger is also the one who betrayed Ned and cost him his life and really started this whole thing. It is possible that Sansa just didn't know how to tell Jon she had turned to their "frenemy" for some help when she has no idea whether he will be there or not. She's not a brilliant strategist, and she has already not told Jon the whole truth before.

And, of course, even before that, orchestrated the death of Jon Arryn. Talk about patience!

Grouchy
06-21-2016, 05:20 PM
I think the answer to this is that Jon thinks like a lawful good paladin. When Sansa expresses her belief that Rickon is already dead no matter what they do, you can see in his goody-good face that he doesn't even entertain the possibility. So making a deal with the man who gave his sister to the sadistic monster that he's trying to defeat in the first place might not have been an option either.

Ezee E
06-21-2016, 10:19 PM
I think they wasted good chunks of several seasons on showing us nothing but people walking from X to Y before being diverted to Z, so I'm pretty grateful that they're willing to cheat a bit on this now.

I think this is primarily why Bran's scenes were so damn boring for the first several seasons.

There's no good way to handle this type of approach really.

Russ
06-22-2016, 01:24 AM
I think this is primarily why Bran's scenes were so damn boring for the first several seasons.
Boring, maybe, but overflowing with a cornucopia of Hodor goodness.
























Hodor.

Watashi
06-27-2016, 02:27 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Arya is already in Winterfell by the next episode.

Not just Arya, but Varys is secretly a Time Lord.

Great finale. Delivered on everything the show has been building to.

Watashi
06-27-2016, 03:30 AM
Also just as you think Game of Thrones is heading towards an endgame, season 7 is gonna give us Battle of the Five Queens.

Mara
06-27-2016, 03:47 AM
Okay, like, good plot, but too much?

This was four episodes' worth of plot. We never had a second to build or think or savor. Just-- bam bam bam.

Also, Arya = Titus Andronicus = okay by me.

Mara
06-27-2016, 03:48 AM
Also, Cersei is worse at keeping her kids alive than the Stark children are at keeping direwolves alive, and that is SAYING SOMETHING.

Ezee E
06-27-2016, 04:04 AM
King's Landing was wonderfully directed and paced. So well done. Glad they gave that nearly a half hour of the finale.

It was Riverrun that was way too rushed, and feel like it could've just been saved for next season, but it is what it is. Arya's story went from mysterious to pretty predictable.

Liked the coronation too.

Also... City of God comes to Westeros.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 04:23 AM
Oh, that was a hell of a lot of fun. Holy crap.

I'm just glad that Cersei as a sympathetic character is over and we can straight up hate her again.

Ezee E
06-27-2016, 04:51 AM
Oh, that was a hell of a lot of fun. Holy crap.

I'm just glad that Cersei as a sympathetic character is over and we can straight up hate her again.

How will she even last two episodes next season?

number8
06-27-2016, 05:00 AM
Tommen's death was incredibly well done.

And really smart to give the fans the dilemma of wanting Lancel to fail but countering it with us not wanting the Tyrells to die. Definitely a fun episode.

amberlita
06-27-2016, 05:02 AM
That episode was fucking bonkers. I feel like I saw every twist and turn coming and yet they were still each immensely satisfying and glorious to watch. So good.

amberlita
06-27-2016, 05:08 AM
Not just Arya, but Varys is secretly a Time Lord.

Yeah seriously. I get that they don't bother to sync timelines but man, his appearance on the ship with Dany mere minutes after being in Dorne? While it's wonderful to see every single house in Westeros lining up against Cersei, they could have saved the Dorne scene for next season (when Lady Tyrell would have had even more incentive to want to align against Lannisters).

amberlita
06-27-2016, 05:20 AM
Tommen's death was incredibly well done.

And incredibly sad. I was whispering to myself what was coming but didn't detract from the heartbreak because it was exactly what made sense for that character: a tragic end to a manipulated little boy. Even more awful was Cersei's muted response. Compare her reaction after Joffrey and her daughter (name?) were killed. Sequentially less and less rage. Just resignation and emotional exhaustion. I don't recall if it was juxtaposed against Cersei's scene with Tommen's body, but Dany's declaration that she felt nothing having to send away a man she cares about was fitting in the shade of that scene. Hardly comparable losses, but a sign of things that Dany has to look forward to.

Henry Gale
06-27-2016, 07:01 AM
Wooowww, after last season's slight clusterfuck of a finale (slightly saved by its wallop of an ending) I kind of gave up hope they would try to do anything but replicate its cheap cliffhanger-ness, but I was thoroughly blown away not just that they didn't, but what was in store in the meantime.

Just this week I was thinking, "Why have they been focusing on the wildfire so much recently?" Then the second the chase started going into the septs, I just went into kind of a stunned, horrified disbelief, yet giddy about it from a story point of view.

I also really never expected the long-coming Jon birth reveal to make for such an emotional scene. Especially the way it was sealed with that single match-cut (hey!) of the eyes, even though -- like Tommen's window and some other things in the episode -- you could see coming, it just got me right in the gut.

Just a thrilling, intelligently designed, and ultimately elating finale. Which I can also now comfortably retroactively say for the season as a whole.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 07:26 AM
Look, I know Cersei is not everyone's first choice, but at this time, we should put politics aside and celebrate the historical significance of having the first female on the Iron Throne. #imwithher

Dukefrukem
06-27-2016, 12:06 PM
What a great way to wrap a season with the leaders of all the lands set and ready.

Question: What was the point of that awkward stare between Little Finger and Sansa?

bac0n
06-27-2016, 12:27 PM
How will she even last two episodes next season?

I think that now, without her children to invoke any shred of decency in her, and with the iron throne hers, and holding onto it being the only thing she gives a shit about, we're going to see a mad-king level of brutality out of her next season. shit's really gonna hit the fan!

Peng
06-27-2016, 01:18 PM
What a great finale. So rousing. Losing Margaery is still pretty stinging though.

number8
06-27-2016, 02:17 PM
I think that now, without her children to invoke any shred of decency in her, and with the iron throne hers, and holding onto it being the only thing she gives a shit about, we're going to see a mad-king level of brutality out of her next season. shit's really gonna hit the fan!

She did the one thing the Mad King wanted to do that made Jamie break his oath to prevent. Technically, she's surpassed his level of brutality.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 02:34 PM
Question: What was the point of that awkward stare between Little Finger and Sansa?

She reached out to him in a desperate time. He showed up to bail out Jon's army, thinking that she would be grateful, support his desire for the Iron Throne and be his queen. Littlefinger has had a long-standing attraction to Sansa because she reminds him of Catelyn, his childhood love. Instead, she blew off his offer and is standing by her brother. The stare means that there will be consequences. Not only did Sansa reject him, but she now knows his intentions, which he had managed to keep secret for the entirety of the show up until now. He could possibly start working with Cersei again, or something else.

number8
06-27-2016, 03:08 PM
Yeah that was pretty much the only time Petyr miscalculated. He's definitely going to try to murder Jon somehow.

I actually wondered what he knows or doesn't know. Was there a way he could've found out that Jon and Sansa aren't siblings?

Grouchy
06-27-2016, 04:57 PM
I actually wondered what he knows or doesn't know. Was there a way he could've found out that Jon and Sansa aren't siblings?
Hmmm I doubt this. Unlike the secret of Joffrey and Tommen's parentage this is actually a well kept thing. Ned didn't even tell his wife, which doubtless would have saved him a ton of marital grief. I doubt if there's a soul alive that knows the truth now other than Bran.

Anyway, great, great finale. It delivered on everything. I like that, even when the hardcore fans have guessed a plot development long ago, George R. R. Martin (and as a result the show) sticks to his guns.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 05:02 PM
OK, so the show reminded us about the spells that were a part of the construction of the Wall, which explains why the White Walkers have not come down past it by now. But doesn't this mean that Bran is the only way they can get through because of that whole loophole where the Night King touched him in a vision? If Bran just stays north of the Wall, then they couldn't get through, right? Am I missing something?

number8
06-27-2016, 05:12 PM
You saying Benjen's a mole?

Gizmo
06-27-2016, 05:13 PM
OK, so the show reminded us about the spells that were a part of the construction of the Wall, which explains why the White Walkers have not come down past it by now. But doesn't this mean that Bran is the only way they can get through because of that whole loophole where the Night King touched him in a vision? If Bran just stays north of the Wall, then they couldn't get through, right? Am I missing something?

No, sounds right, which will probably be reflected in the early part of next season, and then play out toward the series finale.

number8
06-27-2016, 05:31 PM
By the way, no one's mentioned the Davos/Melissande scene yet. Cunningham and Van Houten were great in that scene.

Grouchy
06-27-2016, 05:39 PM
During every Melisandre scene now there's a tiny voice in my head going "that bitch is really very old".

Spinal
06-27-2016, 05:41 PM
By the way, no one's mentioned the Davos/Melissande scene yet. Cunningham and Van Houten were great in that scene.

Amazing scene. I was really scared we were going to lose one of those actors. I love how Van Houten has really changed Melisandre in the wake of Stannis' death.

amberlita
06-27-2016, 05:46 PM
She did the one thing the Mad King wanted to do that made Jamie break his oath to prevent. Technically, she's surpassed his level of brutality.

This is why I think Jamie will be the one to kill her. Pretty much everyone in Westeros has a reason to want Cersei dead, but no one individual seems worthy of the "honor" of doing the deed. If Jaime does it it's more tragic. Plus, there's symmetry there.

I think the show had no choice but to bring Littlefinger's true motives to the forefront. Otherwise, the show has killed off so many other adversaries in the last couple episodes that we'd be left with no one but Cersei, and she alone isn't enough to create dramatic tension for all of Westeros's good people.

Raiders
06-27-2016, 05:47 PM
Either it is Bran that helps them bring down the wall or the Nights King finds the Horn of Winter... But I can't remember if they have ever mentioned that on the show.

The remaining plot seems obvious enough at this point. Season 7 is the battle for Westeros which will end with most likely Dany's victory and the end of the Lannisters ... And season 8 is the battle between men and dragons and the White walkers after the wall comes tumbling down in the S7 finale.

Then again this show does usually avoid the really obvious so some twist is expected.

Dukefrukem
06-27-2016, 05:48 PM
So Jon Snow is marrying Daenerys right?

I mean, they went out of their way to show Daenerys contemplating who she should marry.

Dukefrukem
06-27-2016, 05:49 PM
Either it is Bran that helps them bring down the wall or the Nights King finds the Horn of Winter... But I can't remember if they have ever mentioned that on the show.

The remaining plot seems obvious enough at this point. Season 7 is the battle for Westeros which will end with most likely Dany's victory and the end of the Lannisters ... And season 8 is the battle between men and dragons and the White walkers after the wall comes tumbling down in the S7 finale.

Then again this show does usually avoid the really obvious so some twist is expected.

What the Raiders. Hi.

Why would Bran bring down the wall? Why would he ever do that? And I haven't heard of Horn of Winter and never read the books.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 05:51 PM
Either it is Bran that helps them bring down the wall or the Nights King finds the Horn of Winter... But I can't remember if they have ever mentioned that on the show.



Nope.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 05:55 PM
So Jon Snow is marrying Daenerys right?

I mean, they went out of their way to show Daenerys contemplating who she should marry.

Possible. Even if it turns out that they are related. My guess would be shared power with Jon staying in the North and Dany staying in the South. Cersei is likely the last person to sit on the Iron Throne. After that, I think that thing gets melted down by dragons or something like that.

Grouchy
06-27-2016, 06:02 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't expect this to end next season? I'd watch another two gladly.

I'm halfway through the second book now and I haven't heard of the Horn of Winter. It was to be expected, of course, but the world building of the books is incredible. I feel like it gives me a much better grasp on where everyone is really coming from. I'm going to try to read books 4-5 with the chronological order I found online instead of the way they were published. If it ends up being too twisted I'll revert to publishing order.

I sort of expected/wanted Melisandre to die after that scene. In fact, I thought Jon was going to behead her in yet another re-staging of the Ned Stark scene from the pilot, only this time Jon's sword would catch fire like the Azor Ahai's is supposed to.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 06:17 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't expect this to end next season? I'd watch another two gladly.



They intend to finish with two seasons of 7 episodes each.

number8
06-27-2016, 06:21 PM
Possible. Even if it turns out that they are related.

I don't understand why they half-assed Lost In Translation-ing the scene between Lyanna and Ned. Either keep it all a secret or just lay it out, but it's weird how the scene 99% established that Jon is a Targaryen, and then mute out only the name. What was the point of that?

EDIT: Wait, unless it was just a stylistic choice so the reveal that the baby is Jon was visual (with the match cut) rather than verbal. Hmmm. Still felt weird to me.

Grouchy
06-27-2016, 06:26 PM
EDIT: Wait, unless it was just a stylistic choice so the reveal that the baby is Jon was visual (with the match cut) rather than verbal. Hmmm. Still felt weird to me.
We (my friends and I) asked ourselves the same question and came to pretty much the same conclusion. There was nothing left to hide but they must have played it that way so the few people who haven't heard of R + L = J by now got the most out of the twist.

number8
06-27-2016, 06:28 PM
This is why I think Jamie will be the one to kill her. Pretty much everyone in Westeros has a reason to want Cersei dead, but no one individual seems worthy of the "honor" of doing the deed. If Jaime does it it's more tragic. Plus, there's symmetry there.

Yeah, absolutely. This is the obvious narrative closure to their story, especially with the push and pull of Jamie's innate morality. His face when he watched Cersei's crowning seemed to be a turning point.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 06:45 PM
We (my friends and I) asked ourselves the same question and came to pretty much the same conclusion. There was nothing left to hide but they must have played it that way so the few people who haven't heard of R + L = J by now got the most out of the twist.

This, and it also may be easier for people to process one part of the reveal at a time. Too much info too soon might be confusing for a general audience. Let them focus on Jon being Lyanna's son first. Then, once that settles in, you can reveal the rest.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 06:47 PM
I wonder if there will be marginalized King's Landing truthers who go around shouting about how Sept of Baelor was an inside job and get ignored or ridiculed by the rest of the population.

Dukefrukem
06-27-2016, 07:25 PM
So Jon Snow is marrying Daenerys right?

I mean, they went out of their way to show Daenerys contemplating who she should marry.

I'm changing this theory to Jon Snow having both Dragon powers and warging powers to rule the kingdom.

Mara
06-27-2016, 08:09 PM
I always assumed that Jon and Daenerys would get married as an endgame to unite the ice (Jon, "Snow," Winterfell, The North) with fire (Daenerys, dragons, The South) 'cause the song was about them. Plus, they are both shown as craving love and sex while having their various love interests killed or disposed of. Plus, they would be really pretty together.

But for some reason I had assumed they were cousins (which, ew, but pretty normal in this society) and I guess they are actually aunt and nephew? Which seems like too close of a relationship to root for.

Mara
06-27-2016, 08:10 PM
My heart is with Sansa and Tyrion reuniting, by the way. They're perfect for each other and it would be genius in terms of consolidating power.

There's a place for them, you know the movie song. Some day they're gonna realize it was just that the time was wrong.

Watashi
06-27-2016, 08:27 PM
Something is gonna come full circle and I feel like Bran is the big key to all of this. He's been responsible for this whole domino rally of wars and since he's the only one who knows about Jon's parentage, he's likely either to unite or destroy the Seven Kingdoms.

I'm betting the last scene/shot of the series revolves around him as the new Night's King.

number8
06-27-2016, 08:33 PM
This, and it also may be easier for people to process one part of the reveal at a time. Too much info too soon might be confusing for a general audience. Let them focus on Jon being Lyanna's son first. Then, once that settles in, you can reveal the rest.

Another thing that's weird to me is.... Didn't Ned name Jon after Jon Arryn? So Lyanna probably said some other name, like Buster Targaryen or something. Maybe they figured the audience wouldn't react strongly to a verbal reveal of an unfamiliar name, and needed the cut to Jon's face for the twist to register.


But for some reason I had assumed they were cousins (which, ew, but pretty normal in this society) and I guess they are actually aunt and nephew? Which seems like too close of a relationship to root for.

And this actually could be another reason why they withheld the name. We're all assuming Rhaegar Targaryen is Jon's father, which would make him Daenerys' nephew, but if they're holding onto yet another twist and it's actually some other Targaryen, then maybe Jon and Daenerys are related in some other manner. Shit, if Aerys turns out to be the father, then they'd be brother and sister.

Spinal
06-27-2016, 08:37 PM
I'm betting the last scene/shot of the series revolves around him as the new Night's King.

*end credits*

*post-credits tag in which Gendry's rowboat slowly bumps up onto shore*

"So, what'd I miss?"

Spinal
06-27-2016, 08:41 PM
I'm just going to keep throwing out predictions so that I can bump the accurate ones at the end of the series and hope you forget the ones I missed on.

Henry Gale
06-27-2016, 08:43 PM
Something is gonna come full circle and I feel like Bran is the big key to all of this. He's been responsible for this whole domino rally of wars and since he's the only one who knows about Jon's parentage, he's likely either to unite or destroy the Seven Kingdoms.

I'm betting the last scene/shot of the series revolves around him as the new Night's King.

Agree with this, except ever since we've started to see him having interactions with the past, I've figured the last thing in the series will be him trapped far in the past from one of his time-wargs in a way others can fully see him there (instead of just those whispy voices), and embarking on beginning the building of the wall, becoming Bran the Builder, his own namesake.

Mara
06-27-2016, 08:43 PM
I guess last night does dispose of the fan theory that Jon Snow is secretly Meera Reed's twin brother, right? Unless there's yet another baby hiding just offscreen.

Mara
06-27-2016, 08:44 PM
*end credits*

*post-credits tag in which Gendry's rowboat slowly bumps up onto shore*

"So, what'd I miss?"

"Westeros, my home sweet home, I wanna give you a kiss."

number8
06-27-2016, 08:49 PM
Arya's happy to be reunited with Gendry, but then a raven arrives and the message says "NOT GENDRY'S BOAT." O shit, it's Jaqen wearing his face.

bac0n
06-27-2016, 09:14 PM
...and then Jaqen pulls off his face, to reveal it was Hot Pie all along.

"it's cool, have a pastry!"

Spinal
06-27-2016, 09:35 PM
...and then Jaqen pulls off his face, to reveal it was Hot Pie all along.

"it's cool, have a pastry!"

WHO DO YOU THINK BAKED UP WALDER'S SONS??!!

Ezee E
06-27-2016, 11:33 PM
Fun to speculate:

Nothing's ever easy. Daenarys and company are going to have some type of struggle before waging war with Westeros, be it Winter making it too cold for them, a pre battle with Euron Greyjoy (who I figure becomes the main villain next season?), or who knows what else. The books sound like they have a horn that can take control of the dragons, so that'd be interesting.

I hope Bran isn't the reason for bringing the Wall down. I don't really know what Bran can ultimately do since the past is already done, he can just view it. I'll guess that the Night's Watch will see him unconscious and alone, and take him back, and that ultimately leads to the White Walkers being able to cross and destroy the wall.

Please don't just have Arya be a hidden assassin for the people she wants to kill. Maybe a reunion with Melisandre can give her some direction. Although I still think Melisandre connects with the Hound and Brotherhood first.

Cersei's story seems done. No idea on what to predict here except that she either has Jaime restrained, foreseeing her prophecy, or dies right at the beginning.

bac0n
06-28-2016, 02:20 AM
...or perhaps Cersei has Jaime killed, and it's Tyrion (or Hot Pie) who ultimately does her in?

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 11:57 AM
The books sound like they have a horn that can take control of the dragons, so that'd be interesting.



If Snow is part Targaryen, that means he has the Targaryen blood to control Dragons. Since he is part Stark he has the blood to control Warging.

It would be super deus ex machina if they introduced that horn thing in Season 7.

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 11:58 AM
...or perhaps Cersei has Jaime killed, and it's Tyrion (or Hot Pie) who ultimately does her in?

My bet, Jamie aligns with House Stark.

amberlita
06-28-2016, 01:51 PM
It would be super deus ex machina if they introduced that horn thing in Season 7.

But the dragons themselves are pretty deus ex machina-y. That's why I found the final scene to be rather thrilling. As Daario said...no one in Westeros has any idea what's coming and the shadow of her dragons flying over her armada leaves me wondering if anyone is capable of competing with her when she has three goddamn dragons she can (now, conveniently) control.


Side thought: I was watching a video yesterday about the theory of Tyrion being a Targaryan. Not sure how much I believe it, but in hindsight it would make that scene where he frees the other two dragons from the dungeon make more sense with regard to why they, two starving beasts, didn't eat him alive.

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 01:57 PM
But the dragons themselves are pretty deus ex machina-y. That's why I found the final scene to be rather thrilling. As Daario said...no one in Westeros has any idea what's coming and the shadow of her dragons flying over her armada leaves me wondering if anyone is capable of competing with her when she has three goddamn dragons she can (now, conveniently) control.

Right but Jon Snow is half Targaryan. So that's not Dues Ex Machinay.

number8
06-28-2016, 02:04 PM
I don't know if anything classifies as Deux Ex Machina if it's introduced and set up for many episodes and then sticks around. Inventing new shit that suddenly comes into play is a staple of the television medium.

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 02:09 PM
Sure but come on? amberlita was right that the final shot with the Dragons heading to Westros was badass because, as he said, who could possibly stand up to dragons?

If they invent a horn in Season 7 that was never alluded to or talked about in past episodes that does exactly that, that's super duper Dues Ex Machinay.

Having Jon Snow control them because of the revelations we just learned about, is not.

number8
06-28-2016, 02:28 PM
Targaryen blood doesn't give you special powers to control dragons. They're like pets. Even Daenerys doesn't control them, she cares for and trains them, so they obey her because they have affection for her as their mom.

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 02:48 PM
Maybe. Maybe not.

Spinal
06-28-2016, 03:51 PM
All you have to do is imagine Viserys alive and trying to control a dragon. I don't think it would work out too well.

Spinal
06-28-2016, 03:57 PM
Targaryen or not, I think Tyrion is going to ride one of those dragons eventually. He's talked about how much he wanted one as a boy. I imagine it will be his re-entrance into King's Landing. Not sure who will ride the third. Maybe Bran?

number8
06-28-2016, 04:18 PM
Also, since apparently I'm feeling pedantic today, warging has nothing to do with being a Stark or having Stark blood. Not sure where duke got that idea.

Dukefrukem
06-28-2016, 04:40 PM
Also, since apparently I'm feeling pedantic today, warging has nothing to do with being a Stark or having Stark blood. Not sure where duke got that idea.

Just part of my theory I made up.
fire = dragons
ice = warging

R(fire) + L(ice) = J(fire & ice) = Super King

DavidSeven
06-28-2016, 05:29 PM
What a great season.

Closed with probably the two most technically accomplished episodes of the entire run. Although there was far less scale here than "Battle of the Bastards," this one felt even more complicated in its precision, its ability to strike the right visual notes. That short sequence with Tommen, handled so simply and relatively uneventful, will go down as one of the most memorable moments in the series for me. The direction here elevated the characters (those that remain) to heights that have only been suggested in the past. The Stark sisters, after six years, finally starting to feel like real players and not former child actors in above their heads. Lena Headey, probably the show's most charismatic actor, returning to her wine-drinking, "fuck y'all haters" glory after being wasted in mourning or a literal cell for two straight years. The plot has accelerated quickly, but I've long felt they needed to bring these threads together sooner rather than later.

Good stuff. Hope they can build on this momentum.

Watashi
06-28-2016, 05:40 PM
Everything has been building to a Hot Pie/Lady Mormont conquest.

Fezzik
06-28-2016, 06:26 PM
A note about the Varys teleportation thing - something I missed as well.

In the wide shot of the fleet, there are boats with the Martell sigil on their sails. My guess? He brought the Martell ships with him and they met mid-sea. Either that or that wide shot is after they sailed from Dorne.

Either way, the showrunners have said they felt the need to compress the travel to help advance storylines. And I understand the need for that.

(And yeah, after watching it multiple times and letting it marinate, I think last night's episode is up there with any hour of TV I've ever watched. The score, the cinematography, the acting, everything. Stunning)

Spinal
06-28-2016, 07:14 PM
In the wide shot of the fleet, there are boats with the Martell sigil on their sails. My guess? He brought the Martell ships with him and they met mid-sea. Either that or that wide shot is after they sailed from Dorne.



Hmmm ... good point. That would make a lot more sense. I guess we'll have to see where they end up at the beginning of next season.

Ezee E
06-28-2016, 10:44 PM
As a whole, how long do you think Season 6 was in years?

Dukefrukem
06-29-2016, 12:10 AM
As a whole, how long do you think Season 6 was in years?

Good question.

I just started watching the first season, and it is mentioned that it takes a month to ride from King's Landing to Winterfell.

So there's a reference for you.

Dukefrukem
06-29-2016, 12:22 PM
By far the best VFX in any TV show right? I mean. Damn.


https://vimeo.com/172374044

Henry Gale
06-29-2016, 12:41 PM
Yeah, after these last two episodes, reading articles about Vinyl's cancellation stating its season budget was $100 million, my first question was: "HOW?"

Which of course led to my second: "HOW MUCH DID SEASON 6 OF THIS COST"

Dukefrukem
06-29-2016, 01:29 PM
It's the best show on television so I would expect it to have the biggest budget. I just wonder how HBO is making money off it.

number8
06-29-2016, 02:26 PM
You do it by having whole countries represented by one room for several episodes. Dorne the last couple of seasons have been like the same porch.

Wryan
06-29-2016, 06:18 PM
Very good season. I probably liked "Hardhome" better than "Battle of the Bastards" overall, but it's still great. I have to stop reading message boards, though, when these seasons are upon us. The various theories get teased out and refined the closer we get to the end of the season, and all the chatter undercuts some of the impact when I sit there and say, "Ah! That thing lots of people have speculated about just happened....yup, sounds right....just like they said...........nice." Plus, ever since the Red Wedding, it's hard for the show to have the same surprise anymore. People have been trained to expect the crazy, which in a way braces you for it rather than truly surprises you. But the actual act of watching it is still exciting, so it's got that going for it. Some issues this season with Arya's storyline and Dorne (dafuck) notwithstanding, I had a great time. Liam Cunningham has been spectacular in every single one of his scenes throughout the show's run. Davos is in a neck and neck and neck run with Tywin and Brienne as my favorite characters; sure, I love Olenna to pieces, but she's an easy character to love. I'm quite curious to see how it all comes together, though, even if some of the major plot lines seem sort of predetermined at this point. I do wonder if it's got any more major surprises in store unrelated to someone dying you didn't expect.

EDIT: Also, much as I love Jonathan Pryce, did anyone else feel like this was the kind of role he can do (and do well) in his sleep? His face in his last moments was like the most chaotic energy he's shown his entire run. He knew it was upon him, and no matter his sermons about being ready to face the gods, you could still see the outrage and panic for a moment. Beautifully done.

DavidSeven
06-29-2016, 07:22 PM
It's the best show on television so I would expect it to have the biggest budget. I just wonder how HBO is making money off it.

I'd guess a big percentage of HBO's subscribers justify the cost of their subscription based on Game of Thrones alone. That's probably tens of millions of people, and given that each pays over $100/year in subscription fees, I'm guessing the show makes a lot more money for HBO than it costs to make. Like a lot. Not to mention the merchandising they likely get a piece of. Probably hard to quantify, though.

Ezee E
06-29-2016, 11:31 PM
The merchandising for Game of Thrones is probably close to Star Wars-type of levels at this point. Has to be the most successful for all HBO shows by a huge margin.

Henry Gale
06-30-2016, 12:20 AM
Oh wow, they've already announced the directors for Season 7:



Alan Taylor directed the ninth episode of season one — a.k.a. The One Where Ned Stark Dies — and returned for episode ten. He came back again to direct four episodes in season two, but he hasn’t worked on the show since as he’s been busy making Thor: The Dark World and Terminator Genisys.
Jeremy Podeswa directed two episodes of season five, earning an Emmy nomination for the controversial “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.” He returned for the first two episodes of season six.
Mark Mylod has also directed four episodes of Game of Thrones, two in season five and two in season six. Those include the one that introduced Lyanna Mormont, the secret MVP of season six.
Matt Shakman is new to Game of Thrones, but he’s a TV vet whose credits include Mad Men, Fargo, [39 episodes of] It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, You’re the Worst, and The Good Wife.


If they're sticking to their "two episodes per director" deal then we're expectedly in the 8 episode range.

Dukefrukem
06-30-2016, 12:55 AM
One thing I'm realizing after watching the first season again, is Bran never remembered who pushed him out of the window. I wonder if his powers will show him this.

Henry Gale
06-30-2016, 02:03 AM
One thing I'm realizing after watching the first season again, is Bran never remembered who pushed him out of the window. I wonder if his powers will show him this.

Oh absolutely. It was definitely one of his flashes went he was deep in it post-Hodor.

Also, Duke, since you probably have the first episode handy, make note of who of the Stark family Robert makes physical contact with in their initial welcoming. Saw someone mention it online and verified it this morning. Kinda blew me away, coincidence or not.

Ezee E
06-30-2016, 05:59 AM
Oh absolutely. It was definitely one of his flashes went he was deep in it post-Hodor.

Also, Duke, since you probably have the first episode handy, make note of who of the Stark family Robert makes physical contact with in their initial welcoming. Saw someone mention it online and verified it this morning. Kinda blew me away, coincidence or not.

I don't get it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFVe_76x-jQ

Henry Gale
06-30-2016, 09:04 AM
I don't get it?

Ned, Cat, Robb, Rickon, and what they have in common.

R.I.P.

Dukefrukem
06-30-2016, 12:09 PM
I didn't notice that was a thing, but I'm noticing a lot of expositional dialog through the first three episodes.

Ezee E
06-30-2016, 02:13 PM
Ned, Cat, Robb, Rickon, and what they have in common.

R.I.P.

Perhaps. Would've been really odd if he went in the right order of deaths.

bac0n
06-30-2016, 04:33 PM
Now, I wonder if Bran will have the ability to warg into one of the dragons - perhaps that will make him the third "rider"?

Dukefrukem
06-30-2016, 05:46 PM
Now, I wonder if Bran will have the ability to warg into one of the dragons - perhaps that will make him the third "rider"?

Love this theory because it implies since there are three dragons there must be three riders.

Grouchy
06-30-2016, 06:20 PM
Is it too contradictory that my favorite houses are Greyjoy (pirates, murderers and thieves) and Tyrell (basically representing diplomacy and the love for fine living)?

Dukefrukem
06-30-2016, 06:23 PM
Nope. I expect a new villain in Season 7 from House Greyjoy. I'm also excited to revisit the reasons why Theon decided to betray Ned.

Grouchy
06-30-2016, 06:50 PM
It's much clearer in the books, though I think it was explained in the show as well. Once Theon is relieved of his position as Ned's ward he returns to Pyke and he's regarded as a stranger. None trusts him or respects him because he has remained on firm ground all these years and they all suspect he has become a Stark in effect. His sister mocks him, his favorite uncle has turned into a fundamentalist priest and his father Balon suggests he might be unceremoniously replaced as the rightful heir - which apparently is a very Greyjoy thing to do. So his betrayal of the Starks is a way to regain the respect of his people and his claim to the throne. The Greyjoys still call their leader "King" despite the existence of another monarch in King's Landing so that is even bigger of a deal for them.

Grouchy
06-30-2016, 07:02 PM
Also, in the books Ramsay has already tortured another guy and also called him "Reek". He arrives at Winterfell seeking shelter and is met by Theon who makes fun of him. Creepy foreshadowing.

Dukefrukem
06-30-2016, 10:34 PM
Another cool note from season 1 that I never realized/bothered to understand. The current summer lasted 9 years. So when they say "winter is coming" in episode 1, it could be months before it actually arrives. In this case, it took 6/7 seasons worth of time.

Tyrion Has seen 9 winter's in his lifetime.

Ezee E
06-30-2016, 11:46 PM
Nope. I expect a new villain in Season 7 from House Greyjoy. I'm also excited to revisit the reasons why Theon decided to betray Ned.

Pretty sure it'll be Euron.

Dukefrukem
07-01-2016, 12:33 AM
Pretty sure it'll be Euron.

Pretty sure that's who I was referring to. ;) He looks like all kind of evil.

Ezee E
07-01-2016, 05:00 AM
Pretty sure that's who I was referring to. ;) He looks like all kind of evil.

Hope so.

And I'd really like to see The Mountain have a challenge. Maybe Jaime has to get through him to take down Cersei.

Dukefrukem
07-01-2016, 12:24 PM
Hope so.

And I'd really like to see The Mountain have a challenge. Maybe Jaime has to get through him to take down Cersei.

How about The Mountain vs The Hound? Brother vs Brother. The Hound finally gets his revenge?

Ezee E
07-01-2016, 04:08 PM
How about The Mountain vs The Hound? Brother vs Brother. The Hound finally gets his revenge?

Fans obviously want it, but The Hound is going north with the Brotherhood, so I can't see how it'll pan out right now.

Dukefrukem
07-01-2016, 04:44 PM
I have a feeling THe Hound isn't going to be very loyal with the Brotherhood.

Irish
07-01-2016, 05:28 PM
Yeah, after these last two episodes, reading articles about Vinyl's cancellation stating its season budget was $100 million, my first question was: "HOW?"

Lots of crowd scenes with real people, lots of extras, lots of location shooting, and a list of a dozen producers who have names like Jagger and Scorsese.

Incidentally, rumors I've heard is that Netflix budgets are in this range too. They're throwing big money at some of their shows, because they've got so much of it and don't give a shit (eg: 80 million for ten episodes).


It's the best show on television so I would expect it to have the biggest budget. I just wonder how HBO is making money off it.

HBO has over 100 million subscribers around the world, and they're the most expensive sub out there. As D7 said, GoT is a reason to subscribe all by itself.

They've also got foreign markets and secondary and tertiary sales, since they don't exist everywhere (Thrones plays on Sky in the UK, for instance.)

Their problem now is that they don't have much lined up to replace Thrones, and their model comfortably rested on people being too lazy to cancel in between seasons (that doesn't work so well with digital subs).


The merchandising for Game of Thrones is probably close to Star Wars-type of levels at this point. Has to be the most successful for all HBO shows by a huge margin.

I doubt it. GoT targets adults with real jobs (ie, the appeal seems to exist beyond the usual cache of happy nerd fandom).

Do you picture lots of parents buying Ramsay Bolton dolls for their 10 year kids this holiday season?

Irish
07-01-2016, 05:34 PM
Also, if you really want to geek out on the distances thing:

Westeros is Poorly Designed (https://medium.com/migration-issues/westeros-is-poorly-designed-3b01cf5cdcaf#.f8reaxvxv)

Ezee E
07-01-2016, 10:14 PM
I doubt it. GoT targets adults with real jobs (ie, the appeal seems to exist beyond the usual cache of happy nerd fandom).

Do you picture lots of parents buying Ramsay Bolton dolls for their 10 year kids this holiday season?

No, but I see the Bobbleheads, every board game out there, tons of t-shirts, nerd paraphernalia that easily outdoes anything else. Adult fanfare. Gobbled up like it's a star wars toy.

Ezee E
07-01-2016, 10:18 PM
Also, if you really want to geek out on the distances thing:

Westeros is Poorly Designed (https://medium.com/migration-issues/westeros-is-poorly-designed-3b01cf5cdcaf#.f8reaxvxv)

I hope that guy got college credit for it. Otherwise, the whole thing is pretty damn ridiculous.

Irish
07-01-2016, 11:04 PM
No, but I see the Bobbleheads, every board game out there, tons of t-shirts, nerd paraphernalia that easily outdoes anything else. Adult fanfare. Gobbled up like it's a star wars toy.

Bobbleheads and tee shirts don't match up to the enormously lucrative licensing market around Star Wars -- which includes a helluva lot of multi-million dollar video games and an entire extended universe made up of almost countless books, comics, posters, making-ofs, coloring books, etc etc. Not to mention enough plastic toys to fill the Grand Canyon.

Sure, maybe Time Warner is turning a decent buck off GoT merch but no way is it in the same league as LucasFilm, because nobody is in that league. (Off hand guess -- and a total guess based on what I've heard other properties are worth-- all the ancillary bullshit around Star Wars is worth $6-10 billion a year, worldwide.)

That's largely driven by a nerd economy and another guess -- a huge portion of Thrones' audience aren't nerds.

Ezee E
07-02-2016, 02:21 AM
Bobbleheads and tee shirts don't match up to the enormously lucrative licensing market around Star Wars -- which includes a helluva lot of multi-million dollar video games and an entire extended universe made up of almost countless books, comics, posters, making-ofs, coloring books, etc etc. Not to mention enough plastic toys to fill the Grand Canyon.

Sure, maybe Time Warner is turning a decent buck off GoT merch but no way is it in the same league as LucasFilm, because nobody is in that league. (Off hand guess -- and a total guess based on what I've heard other properties are worth-- all the ancillary bullshit around Star Wars is worth $6-10 billion a year, worldwide.)

That's largely driven by a nerd economy and another guess -- a huge portion of Thrones' audience aren't nerds.

Well, I guess I shouldn't compare it to Star Wars. Just the idea that the merch/games/etc is more than any other HBO show out there, and probably by a large margin.

Dukefrukem
07-02-2016, 05:25 PM
Just got to episode 6 where Ned goes through the book and sees that every Baratheon has black hair. What if Jon Snow was Baratheon and not Targaryen?

Spinal
07-02-2016, 06:20 PM
Just got to episode 6 where Ned goes through the book and sees that every Baratheon has black hair. What if Jon Snow was Baratheon and not Targaryen?

Definitely possible. But it wouldn't explain why they talk about Rhaegar so much.

amberlita
07-03-2016, 06:53 AM
Definitely possible. But it wouldn't explain why they talk about Rhaegar so much.

Or why Lyanna would be worried that Robert would kill him if he find out he existed.

Dukefrukem
07-04-2016, 12:29 AM
Or why Lyanna would be worried that Robert would kill him if he find out he existed.

Yes it would. Remember they killed all of Rob's bastards?

amberlita
07-04-2016, 01:07 AM
Yes it would. Remember they killed all of Rob's bastards?

No it wouldn't. Robert didn't try to kill his own bastards, and Robert is who Lyanna was worried about. Cersei tried to kill Robert's bastards so that there would be no threat to her own children's line of succession to the throne. But we are talking way before Robert is even married to Cersei and Lyanna tells Ned of the child "if Robert finds out he'll kill him, you know he will. you have to protect him." Why would Robert want to kill his own child from the only woman he really loved?

Gizmo
07-06-2016, 10:46 PM
Not to mention, the whole rebellion started because Rhygar took Lyanna before Robert could marry her. I doubt they ever fornicated.

Spinal
07-06-2016, 11:03 PM
Not to mention, the whole rebellion started because Rhygar took Lyanna before Robert could marry her. I doubt they ever fornicated.

True. Robert would never obsess that much over a woman that he actually got to have sex with. He'd be on to a different woman.

Grouchy
07-06-2016, 11:10 PM
I really loved that mutual contempt scene between Robert and Cersei way back on Season 1. I only remembed how good it was when I read it in written form a few weeks ago.