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Ezee E
06-22-2015, 02:13 AM
http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/True-Detective-Season-2-Logo-Trailer.jpg

number8
06-22-2015, 02:48 AM
That was True Detectivey.

Ezee E
06-22-2015, 03:11 AM
Very True Detectivey. I don't get the critics not liking it. It seems like they're only not digging it because there isn't a Rust Cohle, a character that I don't think can ever be replicated.

Like last year, the focus is on characters that really have nowhere to go but down. North of Los Angeles, there aren't many Hollywood dreams here. They're squandered. I'm intrigued in each of the characters, and while the primary murder of last year's episode happens at the beginning of the show, the eerie feeling is all the same at the end. The stareoff in the bar, in which it seems Vaughn and Farrell are at the other ends of the bar, was well put together. The McAdams character hasn't been established very well yet, but she's playing it so well that I'm certain she'll be the standout, even if Farrell has the best material so far.

I'm excited.

DavidSeven
06-22-2015, 04:24 AM
I thought the premiere was extremely compelling. My only concern is that they may have one character too many, but I'm willing to see how it plays out. I think both Farrell and McAdams are well-established thus far. Kitsch feels like the odd man out.

The first season of TD didn't really get going until around Episode 4, so I'm not overly concerned about mixed reviews for the first three episodes.

transmogrifier
06-22-2015, 05:17 AM
Well, the first season started well and then shit the bed in the last two episodes, so I'll be all for the reverse (based on the mezzo-mezzo reaction to the first couple of episodes from critics).

Mainly I hope it's because I like McAdams and hope she does well.

Irish
06-22-2015, 10:00 AM
This was bad because it was unfocused.

The first episode contained nothing to distinguish it from 10,000 other cop shows besides marquee movie actors and some nice photography. Every character element was a cliche of a 1,000 year old cliche (the gangster goes straight? burned out, the alcoholic cop?).

I kept wondering why anyone would care about this stuff. Every other scene feels in medias res, and the writing does a bad job explaining why the dead guy is important, or what stakes are involved. Or why anybody is doing the things they're doing. (Show of hands? If Vince Vaughn gets screwed over in the next episode, do you care? Does that matter to anyone except that character?).

The previous season declared itself right out of the gate. It contained some tired elements (oh joy, here's another story about a serial killer) but the characters and the dialogue forced the audience out of their complacency. It felt like it had something to say (in the end, it didn't, but nobody knew that yet).

Season 2 feels like soap opera and bad neo-noir, like Salton Sea and City of Industry and a bunch of other movies nobody bothered to watch.

Winston*
06-22-2015, 12:00 PM
I haven't decided yet Found the depiction of the Californian sprawl fairly compelling, and the disjointed meandering feel of the episode reflected that landscape pretty well. I'm uncertain about these characters at this point, especially Kitch's , but we'll see.

number8
06-22-2015, 12:26 PM
Oddly enough, the Kitsch character is the one mystery I found mysterious: why did the camera cut away after the offer, leaving it ambiguous if he accepted the blowjob? If the implication is he did, what does it mean that he's revealed to be secretly impotent? If he's impotent and actually innocent of the charges, why does he feel so guilty that he attempted suicide? I have so many questions about his dick.

Benny Profane
06-22-2015, 01:03 PM
I can't think of one hook in the first episode that made me want to keep watching, although I will. Pretty bad job of setting up the story.

Henry Gale
06-22-2015, 07:27 PM
Hmmm.. I feel very little.

I'm okay if the structure of this year proves to be significantly different from the last and things build in a way I don't expect, but right now, it just feels like Pizzolatto had his whole life to craft Season 1 in his mind, and here he had a few months and it's already showing. Typical sophomore slump / second album syndrome. But at least last time he had the (reportedly tumultuous) creative duality of Fukunaga crafting everything visually from the ground up. Here it just feels like Justin Lin is doing his best impression of what's been done previously, only with a new setting, and even then he won't be around after these two episodes, as the directors cycle every episode from here on.

Also, these sort of visuals just don't look nearly as lush without Adam Arkapaw's exhilarating 35mm work being the canvas to capture them.


I can't think of one hook in the first episode that made me want to keep watching, although I will. Pretty bad job of setting up the story.

Exactly the thought I had in most of the second half before the final scene. And then the characters came together and I was like, "OK? I can only hope these only moderately compelling characters are most interesting together" as the camera craned out to the California sunrise.

And I really like Farrell, McAdams and Kitsch as actors, and think they did fine jobs, but they just seem to be given so little and spread so thin amongst other material that I don't feel anything like the surging excitement I did at the end of Fukunaga's premiere, and then his second and third sustaining that, with the ending of the fourth solidifying my love and devotion for the contained series til the end.

This time around, I'm left thinking about how I plan on continuing, if I should bank a few episodes and catch up with them in quicker succession weeks from now, because I don't feel any urgency to see the next episode.

Grouchy
06-22-2015, 07:52 PM
Not sure what to make of all the negative reactions. I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't amazing but neither was the premiere of the first season from what I remember. Sure, Cohle was a more idiosyncratic character than anyone in this, but I didn't tune in to watch Cohle, I wanted a different story.

Continuing from number8's curiosity about Taylor Kitsch's dick, I am actually really curious about what McAdams tried to do in the off-panel sex scene. Did she try to finger fuck the guy or was I the only one who inmediately thought this?

Henry Gale
06-22-2015, 09:38 PM
Not sure what to make of all the negative reactions. I enjoyed the episode. It wasn't amazing but neither was the premiere of the first season from what I remember. Sure, Cohle was a more idiosyncratic character than anyone in this, but I didn't tune in to watch Cohle, I wanted a different story.

For me I don't necessarily feel anything negative towards it as much as it just doesn't feel like it's done enough to feel like anything that can stand on its own or even compare yet. The first episode last time around delivered something new, with exciting and unique characters, and an incredible cliffhanger right out of the gate, all brought to life with the rare sort of directorial hand we see in TV in what Fukunaga brought to the table.

After the first hour here, it just feels like a faded version of something familiar and too undefined to make much of it. And I'll add a "yet" because I do hold out hope.

Ezee E
06-22-2015, 09:57 PM
I don't remember True Detective being the "standout show" it was until around the fourth episode. Other then the creepy murder setup that seemed right out of Seven, I feel like it's right along the lines of this.

DavidSeven
06-22-2015, 10:18 PM
I actually watched the Season 1 pilot really recently. To me, it seems like people are romanticizing it just a bit. There's not a lot happening there besides some interesting imagery and some initial back-and-forth between Cohle and Hart. Certainly, it was more focused since we followed just Cohle and Hart, but from a narrative standpoint, it was not the most inventive thing in the world. Of course, what really sold it initially was the texture and tone of the series, which was owed deeply to Fukunaga. I think Lin has kept that spirit alive, though certainly there weren't many aesthetic flourishes in this first episode. Still, it felt "True Detective-y" enough to me, and I relished being back in that world.

The criticisms that I'll agree with is that they did seem to introduce too many main characters and storylines and that they did a poor job of establishing the central murder. For example, I am not quite sure if the disappearance of that one woman's sister is actually supposed to be a "thing" this season or if it was merely impetus for McAdams to talk to her dad. As far as the central murder, I'd be lying if I said I understood anything about that at all.

Grouchy
06-22-2015, 11:46 PM
As far as the central murder, I'd be lying if I said I understood anything about that at all.
He's an old dead guy who was being driven around with the Maltese Falcon.

Henry Gale
06-23-2015, 12:17 AM
He's an old dead guy who was being driven around with the Maltese Falcon.

And his mere name was enough to make Vaughn throw that glass at the wall!

But why are we still talking about this show! HANNIBAL WAS JUST CANCELLED.

number8
06-23-2015, 12:50 AM
I've seen the confusion expressed on a bunch of sites and I'm wondering if people are lost because they're looking for something more than what's actually there? Because the way I understood it was really simple and presented in a linear manner in the first ep.

The dead guy is the city manager who was supposed to be giving the presentation at Vince Vaughn's investors event but never showed up, which is why he was pissed. So he got Colin Farrell to look for him as a missing person. Instead his body ends up being found by Kitsch in McAdams' jurisdiction, which is why the three cops are going to work together. There's not much to it yet, really. All the other stuff with Kitsch and McAdams are unrelated so far.

Irish
06-23-2015, 01:18 AM
To me, it seems like people are romanticizing it just a bit. There's not a lot happening there besides some interesting imagery and some initial back-and-forth between Cohle and Hart. Certainly, it was more focused since we followed just Cohle and Hart, but from a narrative standpoint, it was not the most inventive thing in the world.

I could not disagree more. There's an immense amount of things happening in the first season opener. It not only establishes almost every character and every plot strand, but does it in an organic fashion. The writing is tight and purposeful and focused, from the ground up. Structure to dialogue.

The first episode was narratively ambitious, in the same way shows like Twin Peaks, 24, and The Shield were ambitious. The structure and setting were unique on television. Its flashback structure alone defies convention. It focused on the murder from the start, but every scene spun off tiny little mysteries that expanded the entire story's scope. It builds on the mystery and tension and then explodes with a final line of dialogue, offering a reversal on everything we've seen so far. It did all this in an organic fashion, with almost everything coming from the two lead characters, who were played by two actors totally in sync with the material.

The second season opener feels like a shotgun blast. It's much more chaotic. It spins out a half dozen story threads and doesn't provide context for any of them. Nobody says anything that isn't plot based. It's like an awkward merger between Dick Wolff and Game of Thrones, where the interest comes from the occasional outburst of violence or outre sex and where the characters are more stock.

The tail end of the first season became lazy, but it was never so lazy as the last five minutes as the S2 opener, where a major revelation happens purely by happenstance.

Winston*
06-23-2015, 02:47 AM
The more I think about it, the more this season looks to be Pizzolatto's attempt at fully channeling James Ellroy rather than just using him as a reference. Each book of his Underworld USA trilogy are presented from the POV of three different tortured law enforcement officers, which would explain that choice.

Plus the terse dialogue in contrast to S1's soliloquies, focus on the sleazy underbelly of California, vast political conspiracy brought to light by a bizarre murder, jabs at hippie ideology etc. Just needs some casual racism to complete the picture.

Ellroy's books are more immediately exciting though.

Benny Profane
06-23-2015, 01:33 PM
For example, I am not quite sure if the disappearance of that one woman's sister is actually supposed to be a "thing" this season or if it was merely impetus for McAdams to talk to her dad.

Missing sister was the girl in the hotel with Kitsch, no?

D_Davis
06-23-2015, 04:11 PM
I'm wondering if the genre/setting is also dictating the different feel.

If anything, True Detective is a pastiche, and each season is a pastiche of a different genre mixed with the police procedural.

Grouchy
06-23-2015, 06:36 PM
Missing sister was the girl in the hotel with Kitsch, no?
I never made that connection and I'm suddenly wondering how right can you be.

James Ellroy's novels did come to mind.

DavidSeven
06-23-2015, 06:50 PM
I don't think they are intended to be the same person, unless that somehow becomes a twist later. I believe Kitsch and his girlfriend were in her apartment, not a hotel. Doesn't really make sense for a girl who's been missing for a month to already have a fully decorated apartment somewhere.

EDIT: also, the James Ellroy thing is pretty interesting. Even in comparing it to L.A. Confidential, you can sort of see that a lot of the primary narrative elements from that are already present in this. He even touched on the celebrity aspect with the Kitsch/actress scene. I wonder if you can still call it "homage" if you crib the entire structure of something.

Thirdmango
06-23-2015, 07:52 PM
I've seen the confusion expressed on a bunch of sites and I'm wondering if people are lost because they're looking for something more than what's actually there? Because the way I understood it was really simple and presented in a linear manner in the first ep.

The dead guy is the city manager who was supposed to be giving the presentation at Vince Vaughn's investors event but never showed up, which is why he was pissed. So he got Colin Farrell to look for him as a missing person. Instead his body ends up being found by Kitsch in McAdams' jurisdiction, which is why the three cops are going to work together. There's not much to it yet, really. All the other stuff with Kitsch and McAdams are unrelated so far.

I remember hearing them talk about the guy but I did not understand the bolded portion at all during the episode. I'm not sure if I missed it because I wasn't paying enough attention or I was just confused at who everyone was. I was also incredibly confused about Tim Riggins dick and I want to know now.

D_Davis
06-23-2015, 07:56 PM
EDIT: also, the James Ellroy thing is pretty interesting. Even in comparing it to L.A. Confidential, you can sort of see that a lot of the primary narrative elements from that are already present in this. He even touched on the celebrity aspect with the Kitsch/actress scene. I wonder if you can still call it "homage" if you crib the entire structure of something.

It's pastiche, not homage.

Season 1 was a pastiche of the new weird. Season 2, from what I read, is a pastiche of California Noir, and the setting seems to suggest it'll be in the vein of Charlie Huston's Ca. Noir trilogy (which was already a new-noir take on Ellroy et al.).

Probably why there's been more than a few accusations of plagiarism thrown at the creator.

number8
06-23-2015, 08:29 PM
I remember hearing them talk about the guy but I did not understand the bolded portion at all during the episode. I'm not sure if I missed it because I wasn't paying enough attention or I was just confused at who everyone was. I was also incredibly confused about Tim Riggins dick and I want to know now.

To be fair, I think they didn't make it clear until the very last scene that sunglasses guy was him. I just remember understanding that Colin Farrell was looking for the city manager throughout the episode and then at the end he shows up at the crime scene and goes, "Yep, this is my missing person."

number8
06-29-2015, 02:12 AM
Um.

Huh.

Henry Gale
06-29-2015, 04:23 AM
Well.

How 'bout that.

He can't be dead though, right? Like, even from a basic story arc point of view and general establishment of him within this fairly fresh narrative. I mean, that second shot to him looked pretty devastating, so the series will have to pull some considerable work-around to justify it any form of "back to 100% recovery!" -- I'd just guess severity of bullets used (rubber, for instance), which of course would just raise more questions -- but it would just seem like a strange choice above all else for them to go the face-value route with that ending, beyond the shock of it.

Promo-specific: Also, a bit more cheatingly, I feel like I can recall at least a couple of shots with him from the trailers that we haven't seen yet.

Or maybe I'm just fooling myself. I mean, in a post-Game of Thrones world, top billing means very little, and here we are on the same network with an even bigger star, with a smaller episode-count to boot.

Irish
06-29-2015, 08:44 AM
There's a distinct possibility this might be a terrible show.

Winston*
06-29-2015, 11:24 AM
Um.

Huh.

Yup. Can't believe the mystery of Taylor Kitch's dick has already been solved.

Winston*
06-29-2015, 11:41 AM
I had heard a character died this episode, but I didn't know which one. Felt for sure it was going to be Vince Vaughan's, given all his speechifying this episode.

Farrell seems like such a weird choice if you're going to kill off someone. He's the only one where there's anything to grasp onto. Kitsch's character is wooden closet case and McAdams is starting to feel pretty embarrassing, with that knife dialogue and the shame porn watching.

And if he survives, then that's a bullshit fake out.

Not feeling that confident in this show right now. When W Earl Brown showed up, I kind of wished he was one of the protagonists instead.

number8
06-29-2015, 12:05 PM
Yup. Can't believe the mystery of Taylor Kitch's dick has already been solved.

Pretty poorly handled. They could not be shouting "GET IT? GET WHAT HE IS?" any louder.

number8
06-29-2015, 12:48 PM
I'm really happy about the image of the shooter, though. I also thought that this season was gonna be more Ellroy and drops the weird fiction aspect, so kinky creepy masked killer was a welcome sight.

DavidSeven
06-29-2015, 04:28 PM
The girlfriend/ex-wife scenes were pretty bad. They had Kitsch's girlfriend and Farrell's ex-wife basically repeat the same things over and over again. It's a shame because I thought Michelle Monaghan's integration into Season 1 was one of the best things about it.

I don't know about that ending. I originally thought it conveyed finality, but the promos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4uxGbhO4ag) suggest we haven't seen everything yet.

If they shot stuff just for the trailer to mess with everyone, I can respect that, but then why waste so much time on Farrell's backstory? If it's a fake-out, then laaaaaaaaaaaame.

Grouchy
06-29-2015, 04:31 PM
Rock salt bullets. You heard it here first.

Winston*
06-29-2015, 07:22 PM
Rock salt bullets. You heard it here first.

Why the second shot then?

Grouchy
06-29-2015, 07:26 PM
Why the second shot then?
To render him unconscious, I suppose. The first shot only seemed to stun him.

Winston*
06-29-2015, 11:04 PM
I don't think he's dead either, just because as Henry Gale mentioned, it's hard to see any narrative purpose in it. In Game of Thrones' first season Sean Bean was the show's anchor, so when he died unexpectedly it set a bunch of other narratives in motion. Velcoro is a loner with no connections aside from a tenuous one to Vince Vaughan's character, so it's hard to see what his death would accomplish (aside from doing something Hitchcock did 50 years ago).

Also, the first season ended on an optimistic note. If Velcoro died here, it will be hard to see the show crawling back from that level of pessimism. Broken man contemplates death...gets killed. Life's a bitch.

I will still be annoyed by the manipulation if he turns out to be alive though.

number8
06-30-2015, 03:52 PM
He's probably not, but a lot of things in that second episode did have a ring of finality to them that made it sensible for me for it to be his exit: The part where he's trying to get the kids to get away from the toxic sludge and they just flip him off, the scene with the ex-wife where he says if he doesn't have his kid then there's no purpose to his life anymore, and that final conversation with Semyon where he seems to have given up on everything.

Also, I do see the narrative machinations of it. First of all, Semyon will be forced to investigate and get involved more directly instead of through his bent proxy. Secondly, it was stated several times in the episode that the State Dept doesn't really give a shit about the murder, they just want to nail corruption in Vinci and Antigone's real investigation is Velcoro himself. So now he can be the *real* murder that they investigate.

And on a meta level, I think it can be an interesting statement because Velcoro is such a cliched anti-hero loner archetype with the macho outbursts and loser personal life, who is always on a redemption path in these types of stories, but in reality would probably just be stupid and self-destructive. So it seems fitting that he gets suckerpunched to death while doing something reckless as a loner.

We have been given no indication that he's even a "true detective" like Rust or Marty. He just goes where Semyon points. So it could be that the show is saying, forget thinking this kind of sad sack is the hero.

Ezee E
06-30-2015, 04:04 PM
Also goes to the original idea that it would be a male and female as the main detectives in the show.

Winston*
07-06-2015, 10:28 AM
This show is boring and bad, yet I will still keep watching. Product of an ego unchecked. That Cary Fukunaga stand-in...

Nice to see Fred Ward in something though. Where's that guy been?

number8
07-06-2015, 12:17 PM
That Cary Fukunaga stand-in...

Oy.

I think I also miss the humor. Marty was a sad sack, but he brought a lot of pithy liners that made him a good foil for Rust. These three are all so dour, and Velcoro's attempts at humor are just dumb ("Feels like sucking a robot's dick").

Ezee E
07-06-2015, 01:13 PM
Everyone also talks so quietly.

Irish
07-06-2015, 01:37 PM
This is an 8 episode season, isn't it?

I've lost track how many times they repeated the same information (Kitch's character is a closet case, etc) without advancing the main plot at all.

Winston*
07-06-2015, 07:37 PM
Oy.

I think I also miss the humor. Marty was a sad sack, but he brought a lot of pithy liners that made him a good foil for Rust. These three are all so dour, and Velcoro's attempts at humor are just dumb ("Feels like sucking a robot's dick").

Then they call back the e-cigarette thing with Kitsch this episode.

Season one did such a great job playing to its leads' strengths. Season two feels like it's burying them. Vaughan and Farrell are a their best playing charismatic wiseasses, yet all this season gives them to do is glower at various people and objects.

Would prefer to see the Farrell from Fright Night in this kind of story

DavidSeven
07-06-2015, 08:29 PM
I'm still enjoying this for varying reasons, but it's definitely veering into being enjoyably bad at a higher frequency. They are having a hard time distinguishing the voices. Last season, Pizzolatto's linguistic indulgences were channeled mostly through Rust Cohle, who was playing off Harrelson's eye-rolling cop. The show really misses that flippant presence. I'm really starting to understand how much Harrelson brought to S1. His perspective made Cohle's musings more digestible. This year, however, everyone is Cohle, and no one is there to be like "dude..." Never more apparent than that ridiculous "stridency"/"apoplectic" exchange between Farrell and Vaughn.

Ezee E
07-06-2015, 09:08 PM
I'm still enjoying this for varying reasons, but it's definitely veering into being enjoyably bad at a higher frequency. They are having a hard time distinguishing the voices. Last season, Pizzolatto's linguistic indulgences were channeled mostly through Rust Cohle, who was playing off Harrelson's eye-rolling cop. The show really misses that flippant presence. I'm really starting to understand how much Harrelson brought to S1. His perspective made Cohle's musings more digestible. This year, however, everyone is Cohle, and no one is there to be like "dude..." Never more apparent than that ridiculous "stridency"/"apoplectic" exchange between Farrell and Vaughn.

Yeah, I thought that McAdams would be bringing a sort of Woody-ish personality to the table, but that's not really the case. Kitsch is always just out of place here, with the repetition of scenes over and over.

Vaughn's charisma has been thrown away so far. I'd like the idea of him being one-note and professional when he needs to be, if he got to be the cocky/over-the-top when the doors are closed, but he's mostly just kinda boring all around. He should've had a solid scene with his fight, but it was pretty tame.

Winston*
07-06-2015, 09:49 PM
Vaughn's charisma has been thrown away so far. I'd like the idea of him being one-note and professional when he needs to be, if he got to be the cocky/over-the-top when the doors are closed, but he's mostly just kinda boring all around. He should've had a solid scene with his fight, but it was pretty tame.

The only scene where he really livens up is when he's harassing that guy on the side of the motorway the previous episode.

That fight was ridiculous. Maybe intentionally? I don't know know with this show anymore.

Ezee E
07-06-2015, 09:53 PM
I gave the show too much credit for the first two episodes. Well shot, great mood, nice pieces of music... Was wary of the characters, figuring that there was good stuff to come.

Three episodes in, and there's not a hint of intrigue like there was from Matt/Woody's season, and they were on their way to having the episode of the season in number four. There was a sense of buildup to that. If episode four is as sleepy as this week, I might be done with it.

Winston*
07-06-2015, 10:22 PM
It's frustrating because you can imagine a good show in this setting with these production values, and the interplay between Farrell as bitter and sarcastic loner, Vaughn as a smooth talking career criminal losing his grip on his empire, Kitsch as a Dudley Do-Right type and McAdams as an overzealous cop with a chip on her shoulder. It's not like the elements aren't there.

Auteurism be damned, I feel like Pizzolatto needs to get some other writers around to check him on his excesses and focus his narrative. Someone to say "maybe there are more effective ways to open this episode than Vince Vaughn giving a five minute monologue about killing a rat" or "does this scene have any purpose other than to say a public fuck you to last year's director?".

number8
07-06-2015, 11:00 PM
I didn't want to nitpick so I didn't mention it before, but the opening of Episode 2 with the paper mache monologue almost put me to sleep. Maybe with a 400% more magnetic actor it could work, but with Vince Vaughn's limited ability, to stage that long of a scene with the two characters stationary in bed, not even looking at each other. I was so baffled. Justin Lin had never been that boring, so I assume Pizza Latte wrote it that way and insisted on it.

Grouchy
07-06-2015, 11:12 PM
You guys really hate it so much? I don't know, the first season was already better at this stage, true, but I'm intrigued by the storyline and nowhere near thinking about quitting it.

Also, rock salt bullets = rubber bullets. I won!

Ezee E
07-06-2015, 11:38 PM
I didn't want to nitpick so I didn't mention it before, but the opening of Episode 2 with the paper mache monologue almost put me to sleep. Maybe with a 400% more magnetic actor it could work, but with Vince Vaughn's limited ability, to stage that long of a scene with the two characters stationary in bed, not even looking at each other. I was so baffled. Justin Lin had never been that boring, so I assume Pizza Latte wrote it that way and insisted on it.

Yeah, my brother went, "Move on!"

dreamdead
07-13-2015, 12:23 PM
I. Just... don't know. The big climax here in episode 4 is appreciated, but there's no real payoff structurally for it. No sense of stakes have truly been established, and the supporting characters who die leave absolutely no mark. The first season established the stakes so much earlier and more effectively.

We're watching this season and I'm holding out hope it never turns the corner into quality so that major changes can be applied for an inevitable third season. Farrell remains the only actor who's developed a connection.

Irish
07-13-2015, 01:21 PM
The big climax here in episode 4 is appreciated, but there's no real payoff structurally for it. No sense of stakes have truly been established, and the supporting characters who die leave absolutely no mark. The first season established the stakes so much earlier and more effectively.

Yeah, this. The action finale was fun, I guess? But there aren't any stakes. There's no urgency to the central mystery at all. Instead they run the same scenes about how their personal lives are fucked up, mostly based on some sort of sexual dysfunction. Like, every character has an emotional wound around sex. That might have been interesting if it played more subtly.

I like the characters a little bit more but the show is bland.

DavidSeven
07-13-2015, 05:40 PM
The climax reminded me of the "Shotgun Ed" scene from LA Confidential where Guy Pearce gets in a violent shootout with the three minorities who end up being red herrings for the central murder case. Of course, that scene was set up a lot better and was significant for developing Pearce's character.

The True Detective shootout was well-executed from a staging standpoint, but it did sort of have a "so what" feel to it, right? Based on already seeing the Bird-man killer, we knew the gang-bangers were patsies. Portraying them as psycho maniacs didn't help in giving any layer to the scene. Intellectually, it would have been more interesting if they maybe weren't so demonic. Anyway, it was still certainly a stirring scene so I won't bash on it too much. It could lead to something interesting.

I still enjoy it because it's hard to find serialized crime drama done in this tone. But yeah, not entirely convinced now that Pizzolatto was the main reason Season 1 succeeded.

number8
07-14-2015, 02:47 AM
Yeah. Gotta agree. Just because it had a Michael Mann shoot out at the end does not change the fact that the episode was boring as shit. It's like watching Law & Order on quaaludes.

Grouchy
07-14-2015, 04:06 AM
Law & Order on quaaludes.
Hahahah I like the show but that's a pretty good description.

Benny Profane
07-14-2015, 02:12 PM
I've seen better action scenes in porno movies. That was brutal.

number8
07-20-2015, 11:48 PM
Best episode so far, but... "Blue balls of the heart"? What is this dialogue this season.

Grouchy
07-21-2015, 04:31 PM
Hahahah there are plenty of instances of completely ludicrous dialogue in this. It's like what was originally a Rust Cohle character trait is now the hottest game in town.

dreamdead
07-21-2015, 04:53 PM
My problem with this show is that Nic Pizzolatto’s chosen to focus on two seemingly disparate subjects, both of which are interesting in their own right, but when pressed together don’t cohere in any way. That is, they’re independently valuable but depriving the other of possessing actual weight and dramatic continuity.

The Vince Vaughn and Kelly Reilly material is finally starting to gain coherence and actual dimension, so that while individual lines are cringe-worthy, at least Reilly is being given something to do rather than look melancholy and wear cleavage-baring dresses. Their scenes together are finally working.

The Farrell and McAdams material is also starting to gather momentum, and the show wouldn’t be bad if it could escape the sophomoric material that Kitsch is trapped with. As someone who never watched Friday Night Lights, I can’t discern whether Kitsch is struggling or if there’s just no logical human entrance into the character (I believe the latter at this time). The lost cash at the mother's trailer was the nadir of an already insipid character.

The problem is that these storylines aren’t yet naturally linked and seem to be operating on such different wavelengths that I don’t think even marathoning the episodes after the fact would enable them to operate seamlessly on a narrative level.

Grouchy
07-21-2015, 05:43 PM
I can't think of a more unsafe hiding place for a large sum of money than an alcoholic's closet. That scene was beyond stupid.

number8
07-21-2015, 08:31 PM
I have no problem declaring it the worst scene so far. It went on and on forever with nothing interesting going on in it whatsoever.

"I'm your mother."
"STUPID WHORE."
"I'm your mother."
"TRASH WHORE."
"I'm your mother."
"COOZE."
"Wel ur gay so..."
"Nooooooo!!! it's not trueeee!"
"Son no come back I love you"

number8
07-21-2015, 08:33 PM
Just to change tone, though, Colin Farrell in the scene where he finds out was fantastic.

Grouchy
07-21-2015, 08:59 PM
Just to change tone, though, Colin Farrell in the scene where he finds out was fantastic.
Seriously. I dunno if everyone agrees, but he's the only character so far to engage me as an audience.

I mean, I don't really give a shit if Kitsch is gay or if McAdams's active sex life is too much for police department standards, but I'm interested in Velcoro's fight for his son and I want to know if he shot the wrong guy.

number8
07-21-2015, 09:37 PM
I found both Velcoro and Semyon boring until the reveal. Like dreamdead said, I don't know why these couldn't come out earlier. It's the kind of thing that should be the hook. Making it the twist made it seem like that's all Pizza Latte got on these two and he had to stretch it out with a fakeout death.

DavidSeven
07-23-2015, 05:11 AM
I think the show is being carried mostly by tone and McAdams/Farrell's talent right now. Kitsch is doing what he can with an extremely limited character. I'm interested to see how the Velcoro and Frank thing plays out, if only because it might be the first interesting thing Vaughn has to play off this season.

The scenes between Frank and his wife are pretty painful to sit through. First, it's really hard to get past the horrendous dialogue where it feels like Rust Cohle is talking to himself in the form of husband and wife. Also, I'm not sure what kind of direction the actors are getting, but the scenes just come across as so consciously bizarre even though they're having regular conversations.

number8
07-27-2015, 03:10 PM
I really liked the choice to use a Bernard Herrmann style score for the orgy scene.

D_Davis
07-27-2015, 03:21 PM
Are there any supernatural aspects in this seasons like in the first?

number8
07-27-2015, 03:25 PM
No.

transmogrifier
07-27-2015, 03:31 PM
I don't remember any supernatural aspects in the first season. The last 2 episodes are depressingly literal (and boring)

number8
07-27-2015, 03:40 PM
There was never anything overtly supernatural, but Rust was seeing otherworldly hallucinations that gave the show a supernatural vibe, which doesn't exist this season because that stuff was exclusively more about the Rust Coehle character than the show.

Benny Profane
07-27-2015, 05:01 PM
"You know me. You just didn't think you did."

Velcoro needed the mustache to pull off this line. Also, that guy didn't look like the father of a red head.

number8
07-27-2015, 05:17 PM
Also, that guy didn't look like the father of a red head.

Velcoro commented on that ("You don't even look like him"). May or may not be anything. Would be funny if he kills the guy and it's the wrong guy again.

Grouchy
07-28-2015, 08:00 PM
I really liked the choice to use a Bernard Herrmann style score for the orgy scene.
Totally. It elevated that whole sequence (which is kind of old fashioned in its construction as well) into something haunting and beautiful. Great idea.

I don't know if it was my low expectations at this point, but I enjoyed this episode a lot.

number8
07-28-2015, 08:08 PM
It's... competent. The Velcoro/Semyon breakfast table standoff is good, but I can't help thinking it'd be a lot better if Colin Farrell was playing against someone stronger than Vince Vaughn. I did love the Scorsese style edit from the gun to the camera flashbulbs. I jumped a little.

But man, the terrible lines just kept on coming.

"The contract... It's full of signatures!"

No fucking shit, Riggins.

Grouchy
07-28-2015, 08:27 PM
Hahahah poor Taylor Kitsch.

I think the storyline would be better if it focused on Velcoro and Semyon's relationship only and got rid of the two other cops. I liked the orgy scene as a set piece, but... who didn't see that rape flashback coming at some point? The character work with McAdams and Kitsch is just too basic and on the nose.

DavidSeven
07-29-2015, 05:35 AM
I try to imagine this season without movie stars, and I start thinking you'd just have a straight-up bad show. The tone wouldn't be able to carry it. The weight brought by the actors is letting Pizzolatto get away with a lot of horrendous writing.

But then, we wouldn't have all this cringe-y stuff being mis-written for Vince Vaughn either, so I guess there's a trade-off.

The orgy sequence was well-executed.

EyesWideOpen
08-04-2015, 03:33 AM
Great season. Even better than the first.

Ezee E
08-04-2015, 04:22 AM
Who should've had Vince Vaughn's role?

Or is the problem in the writing?

Philip J. Fry
08-04-2015, 04:27 AM
Who should've had Vince Vaughn's role?Bryan Cranston? #JustFinishedBreakingBad

Lazlo
08-09-2015, 07:29 PM
Who should've had Vince Vaughn's role?

Or is the problem in the writing?

Vaughn is fine, it's definitely the writing.

Thirdmango
08-10-2015, 08:14 AM
I had a really hard time following this season even with watching all four of the last episodes in a row. I liked moments of this season but overall it's a big fail for me.

number8
08-29-2015, 05:12 PM
Finally mustered up enough will to finish it this morning after giving it up after episode 6.

The last two episodes were just nonsense. Before this I was just giving shit to the dialogue, because I guess I was holding out hope that the plot would all come together at the end, but that didn't happen. Ray and Antigone's relationship developed out of nowhere for no discernable reason, her backstory reveal is complete trite, Pizza Latte's idea of tying loose ends was just death, and everything happens exactly as you'd expect it to... It's just a mess.

dreamdead
09-02-2015, 06:06 PM
I'm curious how much of the first season's charm really is in the performances and family dynamics. The second season promises similar tension in the first episode, but Antigone's father and sister issues don't ever really develop, and Ray's ex-wife is so much a narrative device that she's rendered void. The coupling between those two in the last two episodes seems so rote.

If anything, it's Vaughn and his wife that have the most interesting relationship, but they're trapped by the most overbearing dialogue. Sadly, I liked Vaughn's final sequence in the desert, but the hallucinations needed to be set up in some way to be anything more substantial.

It'll be interesting to see if the criticism leads to someone else getting more control away from Pizzolatto, or if quality actors begin refusing to star in it unless they have more assurances.

Russ
09-02-2015, 10:18 PM
I've seen all the season 2 episodes except the last one.

The fact that I've had all kinds of opportunities to see it, but still haven't made the effort (and frankly, I don't know if I ever will), makes for a pretty damning indictment.

D_Davis
09-02-2015, 10:25 PM
Great season. Even better than the first.

Hehe.

There's always one. ;)

number8
01-06-2016, 07:46 PM
http://www.scpr.org/programs/the-frame/2016/01/04/45792/hbo-s-michael-lombardo-supports-equal-opportunity/

HBO President of Programming takes the blame for S2's failure, says he was wrong in asking Pizza Latte to write another season on a regular yearly TV schedule.


I became too much of a network executive at that point. We had huge success. “Gee, I’d love to repeat that next year.”

Well, you know what? I set him up. To deliver, in a very short time frame, something that became very challenging to deliver. That’s not what that show is. He had to reinvent the wheel, so to speak. Find his muse. And so I think that’s what I learned from it. Don’t do that anymore.

We're probably not going to see Season 3 for a while now.

D_Davis
01-06-2016, 07:50 PM
I've seen all the season 2 episodes except the last one.

The fact that I've had all kinds of opportunities to see it, but still haven't made the effort (and frankly, I don't know if I ever will), makes for a pretty damning indictment.

I subscribed to HBO Go just for True Detective, and haven't watched a single episode of season 2. :(

DavidSeven
01-06-2016, 11:06 PM
HBO President of Programming takes the blame for S2's failure, says he was wrong in asking Pizza Latte to write another season on a regular yearly TV schedule.

So, he basically concedes that it was as terrible as most thought it was.

The entire season definitely felt like it had a hurried "first draft" feel to it. Still think Pizzolatto probably needs a staff or producer to reel him in on his worst impulses.

number8
01-07-2016, 12:10 AM
The scheduling also probably contributed to the inability to get a single director to shoot the whole thing. I think Lombardo's instinct is right. If you want a repeat of S1, just let Pizzolatto go away and whenever he comes back with a solid idea, you develop it like a singular miniseries, which is what they did in S1. This should never be regular programming.

Irish
01-07-2016, 12:33 AM
What you're suggesting is an HBO model that loosely follows the British model --- "hey, it's been 3 calendar years between seasons, but nobody cares!" I love that model because it often leads to quality work, but I don't think the US is there yet.

Pizzolatto isn't a writers-room TV guy and yet, right now, LA demands that everybody fit into that mold.

Morris Schæffer
01-09-2016, 11:43 AM
Episodes 5 and 6 were generally quite strong, the best so far. I think i'm finally on board till the end. Dig the location of LA a lot, getting faint gta v vibes. I'm finding myself moved by these character's lives and their shit that's unrelated to the core narrative. Farrell is really engaging.

@number8: i dig vaughn's character and do not feel that during that table showdown farrell needed to act against a stronger, more formidable force. I like that Semyon isn't your typical tough as nuts gangster, a word he hates. He seems genuinely perturbed about doing nasty stuff to folks but is trying to just survive while keeping a shred of decency.

number8
01-09-2016, 02:52 PM
I meant stronger as in a better actor.

DavidSeven
05-25-2016, 08:25 PM
True Detective is probably done. (http://www.avclub.com/article/true-detective-probably-dead-237307)


That news comes courtesy of Vulture, which quotes an interview with new HBO programming head Casey Bloys saying that another season of the show is highly unlikely.

Henry Gale
05-26-2016, 04:51 PM
Is it weird that despite the fact (or maybe because) I only made it three(?) episodes into the second series, I kind of wish they kept it around as a possibility? Just treat it like Curb, ("Come back if/when you're up to it."), give it to a writer other than Pizzolatto, or at the very least give him a few years to recharge that part of his creative mind for that world instead of a ticking window of a few months again.

Just seems like too much potential gone to waste with such a beautifully crafted televisual style and worldview with that title.

number8
05-26-2016, 06:21 PM
I mean, that is the situation. He still has an open exclusive contract with HBO for a few more years. If he wants to do it they'll do it.