Avengers: Age of Ultron (Joss Whedon)

[Dukefrukem]

http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/avengers-age-ultron-full-poster.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

We had our first MCer see it- lets do this!

[Peng]

Oh yes haha, I'm relatively new so I'm not sure about making this thread. To add to my original comment in that thread, I liked it less than the first one. Still my second favorite in the MCU, but keep in mind that I'm biased towards superhero films that feature a lot of superheroes and use them well (and Joss Whedon is nothing if not capable of juggling many things at once really well). They just feel more varied and interesting to me. In term of plot construction and general movie-ness, Captain America 2 and Iron Man might be better.

[Dukefrukem]

Early reviews are kinda suggesting the movie is going through the motions here and doesn't do anything particularly great. I'm especially concerned with this line:


That Whedon and company couldn’t think of anything to do with Scarlett Johansson other than give her a romantic subplot is frankly indicative of the overall feeling of indifference that pervades the whole picture. Avengers: Age of Ultron is not an aggressively bad film by any means, but it also doesn’t go out of its way to be aggressively good. It lacks any impact in the overall arc and isn’t all that entertaining on its own merits

Did you find Black Widow was just kinda of there?

[Peng]

I mean, after the focus on her (and Steve) in Captain America 2, this is bound to feel lesser in comparison. Still, I think there's more to her here than just romantic subplot. This is the most they've delved into her past thus far.

I read that Whedon's original cut is three hours, and most of what he has to cut is the character-building stuff. A shame, since it's his main strength, and this encapsulates the problems with this film a little bit: nothing gets to breathe or explored as much as it should. I wish it has been kept, or the reverse (cut the action but keep that stuff).

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu5UyNkaqMY

[Dukefrukem]

You can really tell who wants to be there.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvpHtzF94XQ&list=PLi8DA5V4mmmd6WiXTsK2dIIu cDedsVGMd&index=1&feature=iv&src_vid=Y2y-HxoC7eM&annotation_id=annotation_19512 36247

[DavidSeven]

A shame, since it's his main strength, and this encapsulates the problems with this film a little bit: nothing gets to breathe or explored as much as it should. I wish it has been kept, or the reverse (cut the action but keep that stuff).

Who has time for character building when at least an hour needs to be devoted to leveling CG cities and destroying villainous robots for the umpteenth time.

[Henry Gale]

I think Whedon's 3-hour cut blurb has been too overly emphasized. He said that was his assembly cut length (with everything in place on the page without any rhythmic or other necessary honing), which was about the same as the first movie, and among the actual scenes taken out, it seems to be that a lot of it dealt with backstory on the twins. Otherwise I can't speak to how the movie itself plays, and especially how necessary those unused scenes might be since we won't see any of them for months (or until the Phase 2 box set if Marvel pulls those same tricks as last time).

One junket interview talking about it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oZIks6NlK8

[Sycophant]

142 minutes. That should be more than enough.

[Pop Trash]

Chris Evans is sooo Steve Rogers.

[Pop Trash]

You can really tell who wants to be there.

Not Jeremy Renner.

[Dukefrukem]

Not Jeremy Renner.

Heh exactly. And most of them repeated the questions like the person asking them had six heads. Chris Evans was the only one who kinda played off the questions and answered them seriously. Olsen's head was in the clouds.

[Spun Lepton]

WOW that was awkward. Could not finish it.

[transmogrifier]

Will be seeing this in 4 hours or so. Caught about 20 minutes of the first one (which I thought I had liked quite a bit) a month or so ago on TV, and thought it was cheesy and needlessly busy. So consider me......trepidatious.

[EvilShoe]

Pretty average. Not as thrilling to see these characters together in a movie, this being the second and all. Spader's good, Ultron's not the most impressive threat. Then again, Marvel always seems to struggle in the villain department.

Hawkeye's the standout. Thor has this weird subplot, because? Banter is disappointing coming from Whedon. It doesn't really add up to much in the end, feels like just another Avengers adventure.

[Peng]

Thor has this weird subplot, because?

Setting up his next film and/or the next Avengers, probably.

[transmogrifier]

Flat and joyless, with too much generic speechifying and a lot of poorly staged action. Ultron peaks in his first scene and then just kind of goes through the motions so that there's a reason for another glum, tortured look and follow-up speech.

Marvel ranked:

1. Guardians of the Galaxy
2. The Avengers
3. Iron Man 3
4. Captain America 2
5. Captain America 1
6. Iron Man 2
7. Iron Man 1
8. The Avengers 2
9. Thor

[Dukefrukem]

I haven't seen the movie, but yet somehow I already know you're wrong.

[Winston*]

This one climaxes with The Avengers learning they've got to work together. I thought they learned that in the first one, which kind of sums up how perfunctory this film feels. Aliens swapped for robots, without any of the touches that made the previous installment feel like recognisably the work of its creator (mewling quim etc). They seem to have forgotten that the fun of The Avengers was the way in which these absurd, disparate characters interact with one another.

I agree with trans that most of the action is fairly incoherently staged, though I did enjoy the climax more than the previous 2(!) city sequences.

Also, I can't believe a Joss Whedon film contains the line "hide the zucchini".

[Winston*]

The Flash TV show > Marvel Cinematic Universe

[transmogrifier]

I agree with trans that most of the action is fairly incoherently staged, though I did enjoy the climax more than the previous 2(!) city sequences.


The opening sequence is the worst, I think, because it begins in medias res and its general incoherence cannot be ignored based on at least a general understanding of the context. And the CGI is ropey as all hell, though I generally don't care as much about that.

[number8]

This is funny.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9sEkdJrIRM

[Dukefrukem]

Can you guys confirm there is no after credits scene so I dont have to sit through the whole credits for nothing?

[transmogrifier]

There is a very short one at the end of the acting credits. It's pretty meh.

[Dukefrukem]

There is a very short one at the end of the acting credits. It's pretty meh.

Thanks. Yeh I knew there was a mid-credit one. Just wanted to make sure there was nothing at the very end.

[Henry Gale]

Well, at least you guys might've helped lowered my expectations enough for it to surpass them as much as it did, because it seems like I liked it more than everyone so far combined. I might even prefer it to the first film -- since as much as I like the 2012 movie, some of it, particularly in its first half hour, is just clunky as hell. It just plays like such a strong direct sequel to the first instead worrying itself to be a faithful tonal or plot continuation to those in between, while still quietly acknowledging it all.

It just has a super assured and lively vibe, even if sometimes a bit too rushed and busy. It's super fun, makes this universe feel whole again (and even bigger), and manages to pack in just enough significant laughs from characters across the board. (The aforementioned "hide the zucchini" line got a pretty big guffaw out of me. Though I do pity any parent asked about that line on the spot. "It's an, uh, dumb game people played in olden times.")

Also what I was looking forward to most (especially since they were what the marketing had already leaned on the least) were The Vision, and Scarlett Witch's visions, and I thought they absolutely delivered with those, to the point that I wish they employed them even more lengthily and devoted more storytelling focus on them. Rogers' particularly could've been mined for at least 30 seconds of more heart-wrenching with that key final image. And I'm pretty sure I could watch a whole movie with android philosophical musings in the woods with Ultron and Vision. You got money now, Marvel. Just do it. Screw your continuity and mainstream appeal. Go niche.

And I loved the opening that at least Trans did not, and thought the big, sweeping team shots (obviously the long-shot at the beginning and particularly one towards the end) are about as euphoric and dynamic as anything not just in the MCU, but maybe in the whole genre. The third act might be the structurally weakest, but it still plays excitingly, if a bit familiarly, and I thought its stakes are more clearly and urgently defined than Loki's invasion.

I dunno, I basically loved it and I'm gonna be sad to see Whedon go after this. He just gets movies on this scale better than most. Here, he knows when to get microscopic, self-aware and even awkward within broad, expensive posturing, and how to deliver a great version of all the requisite action in between.

***½ / 8.4

[[ETM]]

MC doesn't seem to be representative - while I've seen vocal "meh" reviews, the majority overall seems to have loved it.

[Winston*]

(The aforementioned "hide the zucchini" line got a pretty big guffaw out of me. Though I do pity any parent asked about that line on the spot. "It's an, uh, dumb game people played in olden times.")

Got to question your humormeter there, Henry Gale. That is an awful line. Fairly sure I laughed about as much at It Follows, which I saw the night after, as I laughed at this.
"
It's weird with these movies. Because they are basically inherently about nothing,* when they don't grab you it's difficult to understand why they grab anyone else. Oh well, in a hundred years we'll all be dead.

*Unlike The Flash TVs how.

[Dukefrukem]

;538458']MC doesn't seem to be representative -

When is this ever the case?

[transmogrifier]

Got to question your humormeter there, Henry Gale. That is an awful line. Fairly sure I laughed about as much at It Follows, which I saw the night after, as I laughed at this.
"
It's weird with these movies. Because they are basically inherently about nothing,* when they don't grab you it's difficult to understand why they grab anyone else. Oh well, in a hundred years we'll all be dead.

*Unlike The Flash TVs how.

The first Avengers is like a comedic masterpiece compared to its sequel. The only really amusing sequence for me was the bit with Thor's hammer, and (a) that was ruined by one of the trailers, and (b) it is made better in hindsight by being followed by the only effective use of Ultron, which (c) is also ruined by that same trailer.

[number8]

When is this ever the case?

That's usually a praise, no?

[Dukefrukem]

That's usually a praise, no?

It definitely is. That's just cynical Duke posting, trying to get a rise for no apparent reason. I really need to cut that out.

[transmogrifier]

It definitely is. That's just cynical Duke posting, trying to get a rise for no apparent reason. I really need to cut that out.

It's a tough habit to break, to be sure.....

[Henry Gale]

Got to question your humormeter there, Henry Gale. That is an awful line. Fairly sure I laughed about as much at It Follows, which I saw the night after, as I laughed at this.

Inspired, great line? No. Completely blindsiding to hear in a Marvel movie? For sure, and in that is mostly where my laugh stemmed from. Plus, on its own terms, in Stark's modified snarkiness with his cautious use of language after the first scene, it felt completely right that in his frustration (and perpetual schoolboy attitude in any situation with an audience) he'd resort to joking about Banner and Natasha having sex while great peril surrounded them.

Don't sell It Follows short either, it has some significant laughs too. Horror doesn't work without humour in my mind. Two ends of the same blade. (But that discussion's not exactly for an Avengers thread.)

[number8]

This some fucking bullshit.

592590841845194752

[Dukefrukem]

I'm sure there's a perfectly logical explanation for that.... no?

[number8]

Sort of:


Of the 60 products that Marvel and Disney released for Avengers: Age of Ultron, only three featured Black Widow. There were no Black Widow action figures, costumes or clothing for girls. The three Black Widow items available from Marvel are a tote bag, a men’s t-shirt, and a figure that is part of a large LEGO set.

[Ezee E]

Maybe there will be a Scarlet Witch / Black Widow pack?

[Dukefrukem]

There's also this this (http://www.sideshowtoy.com/collectibles/marvel-black-widow-hot-toys-902371/).

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/assets/products/902371-black-widow/lg/902371-black-widow-009.jpg

[Sycophant]

Do boys really not want action figures of the female characters? I remember back in the day when there were less than 30 different Ninja Turtles figures that April O'Neil was nigh on impossible to find (I think we asked a toy store clerk about it and he told us that there was maybe one April for every six of each of the main turtles). My grandpa sent me one from Canada after much searching (he was working for the railroad and travelling cross country all the time) because no one else we knew could find us one.

[number8]

I can sort of understand if there's data showing that female character merchandise sell less individually (though I doubt it's any significantly less than Hawkeye), but I'm mystified by their exclusion in group/set stuff.

Remember the Guardians of the Galaxy clothing fiasco from last year? Like, what in the fuck is the thinking behind stuff like this:

http://cdn.sheknows.com/articles/2014/08/Elizabeth_S/1047623/guardians_shirt.jpghttp://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/bvvcxe_cmaajtel.jpg?w=650http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CzouYTiETyM/U9-tij-z1XI/AAAAAAAAI34/mVbDQxLzEJw/s1600/no+gamora+tee.jpg

[Spinal]

It's particularly embarrassing considering the high horse Joss Whedon tends to ride in regards to strong female characters.

[Irish]

They won't put girls in the group stuff because they're afraid little boys won't want them. It's a peculiar bias that on the part of the merchandiser that reinforces itself over time.

I think part of the problem is that kids merch is so gendered that if you put a girl on anything, that signals it's "for girls." And little boys don't want things that are "for girls."

[Irish]

It's particularly embarrassing considering the high horse Joss Whedon tends to ride in regards to strong female characters.

How do you figure Whedon is connected to this?

[Spinal]

How do you figure Whedon is connected to this?

I don't think he had anything to do with the merchandising. But it's his film.

[Spinal]

They won't put girls in the group stuff because they're afraid little boys won't want them. It's a peculiar bias that on the part of the merchandiser that reinforces itself over time.

I think part of the problem is that kids merch is so gendered that if you put a girl on anything, that signals it's "for girls." And little boys don't want things that are "for girls."

Yeah, we know why they do it. But it is reasonable for people to point to this as unhealthy and demonstrating a severe lack of integrity.

[number8]

I think he took my question literally, heh.

[Irish]

I don't think he had anything to do with the merchandising. But it's his film.

It's Disney's film and nobody else's. Whedon just works there.

[Irish]

I think he took my question literally, heh.

I did-- and after I posted I thought "that sounds a little obvious."

The thing I don't get when stuff like this comes up: The people who complain about it aren't wrong, but I always wonder if any of them would risk their position, their next promotion, or their job over it.

Picture yourself as a middle manager in the middle of nowhere with a mortgage and two kids. Make that call. I wouldn't want to be in that position.

[Pop Trash]

Stop thinking like a rational adult on the Internet, Irish.

[Spinal]

It's Disney's film and nobody else's. Whedon just works there.

I like how you make the writer/director of a billion dollar movie sound like the night shift manager at an Arby's. :)

[Irish]

I like how you make the writer/director of a billion dollar movie sound like the night shift manager at an Arby's. :)

Hehe.

Arby's probably has more loyalty to that night shift manager than Disney does to any of its directors. These guys are strictly work for hire, not auteurs. Nobody is an auteur when they sign on with Disney, a company with a long and storied history of fucking over its creatives without batting an eye.

Or: Whedon needs Disney a lot more than Disney needs him.

[Spinal]

My point was not that Whedon had any say in the matter, or that there is anything he can really do about it. My point was simply that it must be embarrassing for him to be openly trash talking Jurassic Park and then have this sort of thing associated with his film.

Anyway, I am discussing gender politics in a superhero thread. There has got to be something better I could be doing with my time.

[Irish]

My point was not that Whedon had any say in the matter, or that there is anything he can really do about it. My point was simply that it must be embarrassing for him to be openly trash talking Jurassic Park and then have this sort of thing associated with his film.

True. More that someone he works with (Ruffalo) pointed it out in public.


Anyway, I am discussing gender politics in a superhero thread. There has got to be something better I could be doing with my time.

You could wander over to the Star Wars thread and argue the merits of Return of the Jedi. :D

[number8]

Anyway, I am discussing gender politics in a superhero thread. There has got to be something better I could be doing with my time.

Meh. I do that all the time. It's part of the fun of being a fan of sexist industries.

[[ETM]]

Yeah, it was pretty great. I could nitpick it to death but I had a really good time, and so did the audience.

[Peng]

My anti-Marvel friend went to see this and surprised me a bit today. He mildly liked the first Iron Man, and thoroughly disliked every Marvel since then (he skipped Iron Man 2-3 and Thor 2). But he really liked this and said it was the best one.

[Dukefrukem]

So good....

[Dukefrukem]

Okay...

1. I'm glad they fixed the voice over work between the clips I posted of Ultron talking- it looked too cartoony in those clips but it's fixed in post.

2. The CGI in the first battle is really bad. It stands out like a sore thumb compared to the rest of the movie.

3. My favorite parts were the scenes of just dialog- the party, the talk at the farm, the epilogue stuff... all great. Loved the Cap and Stark stuff too- A great precursor to Civil War.

4. The Hawkeye stuff is all great. And expanding on Nat's backstory equally great. The Romance is great. I loved the way they left Hulk at the end.

5. The third act is a little bit wishy washy- lots of pounding and punching going on- key objectives seemed overlooked at times. Too much going on maybe? I bought tickets for Tues though.

5.5 I did love the opening scene with the one shot- a great homage to the one-shot in Avengers, also loved the circular slow mo shot when they are defending the key towards the end. One of the better uses of slow motion in an action movie.

6. I'm glad they finally distanced themselves from the death fake-outs

7. Vision is awesome. The Avengers team is so big now- They've got to be close to reaching the maximum number of heroes allowed on screen.

8. Ending Credits scene is kinda lame. Very unfufilling. Just showing us something we already know. Equally disappointing was the lack of black panther Easter eggs.

That's it for now. More tomorrow morning.

PS- I finished reading Civil War before going to see this. I'm all jacked up on Marvel now.

9. Remembered one more thing- The Audible gasps when Quicksilver got shot and when Cap ripped the wood with his bare hands, and when Vision picked up Mjolnir were great reactions from my theater.

[TGM]

My immediate thoughts are that this was okay. Not especially good, certainly not bad either. Just okay. I'll have to sit on this one a bit I think...

[Watashi]

The third act of this film is just Joss Whedon giving the middle finger to Zack Snyder over and over. It was beautiful.

[MadMan]

It definitely is. That's just cynical Duke posting, trying to get a rise for no apparent reason. I really need to cut that out.

One of the biggest reasons why people use the Internet. I look forward to seeing Avengers 2. I finally viewed Thor 2 last month.

[Dukefrukem]

The third act of this film is just Joss Whedon giving the middle finger to Zack Snyder over and over. It was beautiful.

So yes.

[transmogrifier]

The third act of this film is just Joss Whedon giving the middle finger to Zack Snyder over and over. It was beautiful.

And it's boring as all hell.

[DavidSeven]

The third act of this film is just Joss Whedon giving the middle finger to Zack Snyder over and over. It was beautiful.

This was the first thing I was going to mention. The entire last third of this film is spent openly mocking Man of Steel's sins. It's funny, but also so deliberate and strained that it gets a little distracting at times.

[Dukefrukem]

This was the first thing I was going to mention. The entire last third of this film is spent openly mocking Man of Steel's sins. It's funny, but also so deliberate and strained that it gets a little distracting at times.

Agreed. Especially the scene where the cars go over the side of the bridge, and Thor throws them back up to Cap who is hanging with 1 arm off the side of the bridge.

[Pop Trash]

I've always thought he was kinda overrated, but I'm really starting to severely dislike Robert Downey Jr. At least Johnny Depp still seems like a nice guy, despite obviously turning his career into a similar franchise driven cash-grab.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/robert-downey-jr-trashes-indie-moviemaking-fires-back-over-alejandro-gonzalez-inarritus-superhero-diss-20150501

[DavidSeven]

I think Marvel will miss Whedon's playfulness. This wasn't as fun or as humorous as the first, but the film's strength is still Whedon's wit and understanding of tropes and how to use them to flip the audience's expectations. I'm quite certain most in my audience expected Hawkeye to die without even realizing why. That's all Whedon playing off tropes. It'd be nice if Whedon could go off and direct his own self-contained story with these characters -- something that allowed him to put the actors in quiet rooms and talk for 80% of the runtime (akin to Buffy episode or a lot of comics, actually).

The film is at its worst when it devolves into MCU-approved robot/city destruction, and, unfortunately, there's a lot of that. I also felt the film was too reliant on VFX shots. You become numb to all after a while. The camera felt much more involved in Avengers 1 and much less reliant on CGI to fill in the gaps. This one opens and closes pretty weakly with perfunctory Marvel chaos that makes your eyes glaze over.

It's all entertaining enough, I suppose. It's a good movie for the masses, and I won't poo poo on that too much. This film isn't any sort of revelation, but I appreciate the fragments of Whedon's voice that can be found in it, and how he was able creatively craft character-origins that mostly feel self-contained within this story and related to the actions of these characters (a big problem with other parts of MCU).

[Dukefrukem]

Seemed like he was just saying those things for laughs.

[Dukefrukem]

I think Marvel will miss Whedon's playfulness. This wasn't as fun or as humorous as the first, but the film's strength is still Whedon's wit and understanding of tropes and how to use them to flip the audience's expectations. I'm quite certain most in my audience expected Hawkeye to die without even realizing why.

This was definitely true in my theater. The two people sitting next to me both said this after the credits.

I still think this movie was way more humorous than the first movie; even with all the dark undertones. Hawkeye alone had a bunch of awesome lines:

"The city is flying! We're fighting an army of robots! And I have a bow and arrow! None of this makes sense!"

[TGM]

Guardians of the Galaxy
Iron Man 3
The Avengers
Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The First Avenger
Iron Man
Avengers: Age of Ultron
The Incredible Hulk
Thor
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Iron Man 2

[Dukefrukem]

Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The Avengers
Guardians of the Galaxy
Avengers: Age of Ultron (tentatively, 2nd viewing next week)
Iron Man 3
Captain America: The First Avenger
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
Thor
Iron Man 2
Thor: The Dark World


Look at the lead Marvel has on DC as far connecting universes go.

Man of Steel

[Peng]

1. The Avengers
2. Avengers: Age of Ultron
3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
4. Iron Man
5. Guardians of the Galaxy
6. Thor
7. Iron Man 3
8. Iron Man 2
9. The Incredible Hulk
10. Captain America: The First Avenger
11. Thor: The Dark World

[Mr. McGibblets]

This movie feels so perfunctory. It exists to get us from Avengers 1 to Avengers 3. The plot exists to get us from Fight Scene A to Fight Scene B to Fight Scene C. We fill in a generic backstory for the one character we know nothing about. We get a terrible romance. Characters are brought back just to show up and do nothing. Both the villain and the inter-group conflicts feel generic and recycled. Even the jokes feel like imitations of jokes. There's one good scene where they're sitting around having fun, but it’s near the beginning of the film, and all subsequent character moments are deathly serious affairs.

[Dukefrukem]

I disagree with most of what you said, but I'm gonna start here: "Both the villain and the inter-group conflicts feel generic and recycled" - If anything you should be mad at Iron Man 2 and Captain America. Those are the only two villains that shared the same goal.

Avengers: Age of Ultron - Earth's Extinction- AI prevalence

Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Anti-Nazi/Hydra Genocide
The Avengers - Enslave Human Race
Guardians of the Galaxy - Destroy the Galaxy
Iron Man 3 - Kill the President
Captain America: The First Avenger- Anti-Nazi/Hydra Genocide 2
Iron Man - Win the Weapons Race
The Incredible Hulk - Beat Hulk/Revenge
Thor - Destroy that Ice Planet
Iron Man 2 - - Win the Weapons Race 2
Thor: The Dark World- Anti-Dark Elves Genocide

[DavidSeven]

Maybe it's because Ruffalo has to play Banner as being pretty lifeless and meek, but I didn't find the whole Banner/Natasha thing to be that convincing either honestly.

[Watashi]

Maybe it's because Ruffalo has to play Banner as being pretty lifeless and meek, but I didn't find the whole Banner/Natasha thing to be that convincing either honestly.

Yeah, it was kinda thrown in. Doesn't Betty still exist in this universe? How come she is never mentioned.

Natasha wasn't given that much to do except to act as a babysitter to Banner.

[Mr. McGibblets]

I know the villain had other goals, but his method was to destroy a city using a faceless mass and to kill the Avengers by doing so, just like in the first movie. Anything unique about him ended up not mattering; it's still not clear how they eliminated him from the internet just by killing a few hundred robots.

[Skitch]

...when Vision picked up Mjolnir were great reactions from my theater.


Agreed. Especially the scene where the cars go over the side of the bridge, and Thor throws them back up to Cap who is hanging with 1 arm off the side of the bridge.

Seems like both of these would have been thoroughly enjoyable scenes to be surprised with in the theater. Anything else, man?

[[ETM]]

Don't quote it, Skitch...


it's still not clear how they eliminated him from the internet just by killing a few hundred robots.

They didn't. Vision did it first thing, and then they destroyed the copies to prevent his escape and survival inside one.

[Dukefrukem]

Don't quote it?

[Skitch]

Siiiiiiiiiiiiigh...I think I need to log off a few days.

[Dukefrukem]

Is that an unwritten rule? Not to quote stuff in these threads?

[Mr. McGibblets]

;538868']They didn't. Vision did it first thing, and then they destroyed the copies to prevent his escape and survival inside one.
Ah, thanks I missed that. That makes him even more generic by the end, just an army of robots.

[[ETM]]

Ah, thanks I missed that. That makes him even more generic by the end, just an army of robots.

I thought it was scary as hell - every single robot body was him, and if only one escaped physically he would get online and try again and again. I mean, they turned their heads for a second, and one copy activated the doomsday device.


Is that an unwritten rule? Not to quote stuff in these threads?

Nah, I was just referring to him complaining about spoiled surprises by propagating them.
And yeah Skitch, it's best to be off untill you see it for yourself, I'd have been pissed if I learned some stuff in advance.

[DavidSeven]

Is that an unwritten rule? Not to quote stuff in these threads?

Think they're just being careful not to spoil others via quoted text.

Skitch, the car thing honestly wasn't that cool, so not a big deal there.

[Dukefrukem]

Ah I get it.

I dont understand why people who haven't seen the movie yet read these threads. Boggles my mind. This is the discuss the movie thread. There's an upcoming movie thread for this exact reason.

[DavidSeven]

I'll peruse other threads like this to get a feel for the initial reaction. But yeah, if you carefully read a bullet point breakdown of the film, then you're bound to see some "cool scenes" being discussed.

[Dukefrukem]

I even kinda had that in mind when I did the number/bullets. I thought, I don't need to spoil this because I'm obviously pointing out things in the movie. I spoiled one critical event that is probably the biggest spoiler in the movie. But someone tell me if I should be spoiling everything.

[TGM]

Yeah, it was kinda thrown in. Doesn't Betty still exist in this universe? How come she is never mentioned.



I was curious about that myself. That, plus Banner's line after the Hulk/Iron Man fight about how the whole world knows the real Hulk now, make me wonder if this movie hasn't essentially just retconned The Incredible Hulk at this point.

[Dukefrukem]

I was curious about that myself. That, plus Banner's line after the Hulk/Iron Man fight about how the whole world knows the real Hulk now, make me wonder if this movie hasn't essentially just retconned The Incredible Hulk at this point.

But Hulk didn't just go out and smash stuff in The Incredible Hulk just to smash stuff. He was fighting Abomination.

He went on, what I believe, to be the equivalent of the Vegas Rampage in Planet Hulk.

[TGM]

But Hulk didn't just go out and smash stuff in The Incredible Hulk just to smash stuff. He was fighting Abomination.

He went on, what I believe, to be the equivalent of the Vegas Rampage in Planet Hulk.

There was news footage of him actively fighting off the military in that movie, footage that even crossed over in the background on the news in Iron Man 2.

[Dukefrukem]

There was news footage of him actively fighting off the military in that movie, footage that even crossed over in the background on the news in Iron Man 2.

But it was in an open field and away from civilians and wasn't in a crowded city.

It's becomes reality when innocent people start getting hurt.

[TGM]

But it was in an open field and away from civilians and wasn't in a crowded city.

It's becomes reality when innocent people start getting hurt.

Doesn't a part of that battle take place on a college campus, though? I'm pretty sure I remember that being the case at least.

[number8]

He meant it as a comment of escalation, like "Now you know really how bad it can get." The collateral damages in TIH was fairly minimal compared to the danger he posed in this movie.

[number8]

I thought Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Elizabeth Olsen were very good in this. They're much more likable as siblings than as a married couple, even with the relatively little screen time.

[number8]

I had a hilarious moment in my theater, when Vision first came alive a guy started to clap then immediately stopped when he realized that no one else was clapping. But a few seconds later he was like fuck it and clapped in a really loud and deliberate manner and finally the rest of the theater joined in. Must have been very satisfying for him.

[Mara]

Maybe because everyone lowered my expectations, but I thought this was pretty fun. I always think these films spend waaaaaaay too much on big fight scenes (most unnecessary was Iron Man vs. Hulk in Seoul) but Whedon managed to cram as much character-time in there as was probably possible. He even managed to make Hawkeye mildly interesting and likeable. I didn't hate Natasha & Bruce, although it needed more time spent developing it. Tony and Steve continue to have the best, most complicated, and funniest interactions with each other, which really makes me think Civil War is going to be phenomenal.

Loved the Peggy cameo.

[ledfloyd]

I had a lot of fun with this. It's noticeably more Whedon-y than the first one. I was laughing a lot. I agree with Mara that there were too many fight scenes. Could've used a bit more of them hanging out making snarky remarks. Still, I really liked it.

[Dukefrukem]

Kinda shocking- this didn't beat the first Avengers 3 days BO: 187,656,000 vs 204.

[[ETM]]

Destroyed the global numbers, though.

[Watashi]

The fight last night had a lot to do with it.

[Dukefrukem]

The fight last night had a lot to do with it.

Good call.

[Mal]

This movie felt like it would never end. Hawkeye should have died, not had a wife and kids. So fucking lame.

[Fezzik]

This was...ok. A little better than OK, in reality, but there were still a lot of problems.

The pacing was all over the place and the film never settled into a rhythm. Worse yet, several subplots seemed shoehorned/forced/out of place and it came across as corporate interference more than Whedon's ideas. Most specifically:



Thor's little foray to the vision pool. Was that EVER mentioned in any other MCU movie before? It seemed completely out of nowhere.
The romance subplot - although I disagree that Nat was "reduced" to a love interest, since she was definitely integral to the team during fight scenes, I felt it was completely unnecessary.
Hawkeye's family - there for no other reason than to set up the "Hawkeye is going to die" fakeout. Cheap.



That said, the good that IS there is good enough that I enjoyed this. It just wasn't nearly as good or as confident as The first Avengers, GotG, Winter Soldier or Iron Man.

[Wryan]

I loved all the little cameos. I guess that's a major advantage to this cinematic universe they are cultivating. I think the Flippant Whedon Banter machine was a little overtuned this time. A lot of it didn't stick for me. Also, similarly, I liked Vision a lot, but Bettany was saddled with some incredibly portentous pronouncements. I swear to god I expected him to say, "Don't be upset it's over...be glad it happened" or some other similar horseshit. I'm not sure I understand the reason for all of Ultron's human quirks (he acts like he's already been living among humans for decades), though Spader had fun. I didn't see it in 3D cause I heard it was shit, but I disagree with the frequent comments about too much happening on the screen. I thought it had a nice frenetic play about it, sort of like the hyperactive child version of Tarsem's Immortals (http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--hCsY6qrX--/18lrgtfjleadljpg.jpg).

Does Vision...do that in the comics? I thought it was supposed to be a big deal when Captain America...does that, or something. Also, how would Mjolnir even determine the worth of an A.I. being? Seemed too on-the-nose, an easy way to get people (Avengers/audience) to realize he's a Good Guy. I still liked him overall though.

Had fun, mostly.

[Dukefrukem]

No Vision never did that in the comics.

[TGM]

This was...ok. A little better than OK, in reality, but there were still a lot of problems.

The pacing was all over the place and the film never settled into a rhythm. Worse yet, several subplots seemed shoehorned/forced/out of place and it came across as corporate interference more than Whedon's ideas. Most specifically:



Thor's little foray to the vision pool. Was that EVER mentioned in any other MCU movie before? It seemed completely out of nowhere.
The romance subplot - although I disagree that Nat was "reduced" to a love interest, since she was definitely integral to the team during fight scenes, I felt it was completely unnecessary.
Hawkeye's family - there for no other reason than to set up the "Hawkeye is going to die" fakeout. Cheap.



That said, the good that IS there is good enough that I enjoyed this. It just wasn't nearly as good or as confident as The first Avengers, GotG, Winter Soldier or Iron Man.

Heh, I actually thought that the romance and Hawkeye stuff were among the things that actually worked in this movie though the fakeout itself was pretty lame. Basically, anytime the action actually took a break and the movie focused on the characters is when this movie excelled. It's just that there's so much god damn action (too much god damn action, in fact), that it just drags the movie down, being blandly and incoherently cut and all over the place, and lacking in the kinds of moments that really connect with the audience that were present in the first film.

[Morris Schæffer]

I like it although it is clear now that no Avengers movie will ever make the heroes look like they're genuinely outmatched by their villains. Seems Thanos is next in line, but despite his arrogance in that 4 second clip at the end, it's gonna be business as usual. In other words, he's gonna get his ass kicked. Don't even bother big purple guy.

Some of the early action scenes, especially Iron Man vs. Hulk I didn't like all that much. It's definitely Michael Bay territory with a lot of noise and frenetic movement signifying oh so very little. Then they wanna evoke 9/11 and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Special effects are really, really good in the last hour. Overall a bit less than the original because some of that novelty has worn off, but I had a great time.

Hawkeye's wife, played by Linda Cardellini, is amazingly hot.

[number8]

Woof. Whedon continues to burn bridges, describes "unpleasant" relationship with Marvel. Apparently Whedon wanted Thor's cave scene cut, but Marvel execs insisted on it because it sets up Infinity War. They also wanted the dream sequences and the farmhouse scenes cut, but Whedon insisted on them.

Also, about the final line:


“I made sure we never shot him saying it, because I was positive some executive was going to go ‘Uh, you forgot to put in the last word,’” Whedon said.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/05/joss-whedon-avengers-marvel-cuts

[Sycophant]

As a pretty big outsider to this whole MCU thing, the negotiated readings and rationalizations I'm seeing from fans are kinda fascinating.

[Dukefrukem]

Not surprising the lamest thing in AoU wasn't Whedon's idea.

[Dukefrukem]

Woof. Whedon continues to burn bridges, describes "unpleasant" relationship with Marvel. Apparently Whedon wanted Thor's cave scene cut, but Marvel execs insisted on it because it sets up Infinity War. They also wanted the dream sequences and the farmhouse scenes cut, but Whedon insisted on them.

Also, about the final line:



http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/05/joss-whedon-avengers-marvel-cuts

When he says "Marvel execs" do you think he just means Feige?

I listened to that section and he doesn't sound very angry about the cave sequence and he's joking and making voices about the experience.

[transmogrifier]

I really disliked the dream sequences. I thought they were hokey.

[Rowland]

Anyone note how fugly this movie is? It's a desaturated teal-and-orange fest, with entire sequences comprised of no more than minor variations of the two color tones. Combine this with an increasingly standardized reliance on CGI to only halfway-convincingly animate entire shots and I often felt like I was watching an Xbox 360 cut scene.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, it was pretty ugly. Whedon is no stylist in any shape or form. Not that it really matters if the story is halfway decent, or if the characters pop. Not the case here though.

I'm sick of the boilerplate "introduce the bad guy early and then track both camps to the inevitable showdown finale" - one of the best things about The Winter Soldier is that it is more or less a whodunit type thing. I want more of that...I've had enough of the random big bad.

[number8]

I wouldn't say shape or form, I like a lot of his directorial camera choices (although I'm thinking more of his TV work for examples of visual flourishes than any of his movies, which is ironic), but yeah, he's never made anything where the cinematography is great, and this is no exception.

[Dukefrukem]

So there's now 5 dislikes for AoU on MC which is 1 more than the entire lifespan of the Avengers. (64-4)

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3986-The-Avengers-(Joss-Whedon)

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

[number8]

Mark Ruffalo just posted this:


I think it's sad. Because I know how Joss feels about women, and I know that he's made it a point to create strong female characters. I think part of the problem is that people are frustrated that they want to see more women, doing more things, in superhero movies, and because we don't have as many women as we should yet, they're very, very sensitive to every single storyline that comes up right now. But I think what's beautiful about what Joss did with Black Widow - I don't think he makes her any weaker, he just brings this idea of love to a superhero, and I think that's beautiful.

If anything, Black Widow is much stronger than Banner. She protects him. She does her job, and basically they begin to have a relationship as friends, and I think it's a misplaced anger. I think that what people might really be upset about is the fact that we need more superhuman women. The guys can do anything, they can have love affairs, they can be weak or strong and nobody raises an eyebrow. But when we do that with a woman, because there are so few storylines for women, we become hyper-critical of every single move that we make because there's not much else to compare it to.

So I know Joss really well. I know what his values are. And I think it's sad, because in a lot of ways, there haven't been as many champions in this universe as Joss is and will continue to be. And I know it hurts him. I know it's heavy on him. And the guy's one of the sweetest, best guys, and I know him - as far as any man can be a champion for women, he is that.

So it's been a little disheartening.

But I also see how much people love that aspect of it. There's an equal amount of people who find the love interest between Banner and Black Widow to be a big standout. And it's very satisfying to people. So it's a movie. People are going to have their opinions. And that's actually a great thing. The fact that this is a debate that's coming out of this movie is probably a positive thing.

I just don't think that people should get personal with Joss, because he really is - of anyone - an advocate for women. He's a deeply committed feminist.

[Irish]

Good god Disney must be freaking out

[TGM]

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

Nope, I still haven't settled on either a yay or a nay yet.

[DavidSeven]

I wouldn't say shape or form, I like a lot of his directorial camera choices (although I'm thinking more of his TV work for examples of visual flourishes than any of his movies, which is ironic), but yeah, he's never made anything where the cinematography is great, and this is no exception.

Yeah, I think Whedon can be strong with the camera. You can see the difference in his TV work over the work of others he's hired. Even Avengers 1, I thought had a more "present" camera than other MCU films, which I think helped set it apart. Didn't feel this one was as strong in that regard at all. An over-reliance on CGI to achieve shots was certainly a contributing factor. In general, I did not think this film looked good.

[DavidSeven]

So there's now 5 dislikes for AoU on MC which is 1 more than the entire lifespan of the Avengers. (64-4)

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3986-The-Avengers-(Joss-Whedon)

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

I'm mixed.

[Dukefrukem]

For you guys who are mixed, does that mean you're not going to want to watch it again?

[number8]

Yeah, I think Whedon can be strong with the camera. You can see the difference in his TV work over the work of others he's hired. Even Avengers 1, I thought had a more "present" camera than other MCU films, which I think helped set it apart. Didn't feel this one was as strong in that regard at all. An over-reliance on CGI to achieve shots was certainly a contributing factor. In general, I did not think this film looked good.

I felt that way for the first half of the movie. The first battle is kind of too much to launch into, the chaotic skirmish after the party and in the African factory are hard to see, and the Hulk/Veronica fight is my least favorite thing about comic book movies. Two CGI behemoths frantically smashing against each other. I got flashbacks to the awful climax of The Incredible Hulk. They have none of the clarity of the action scenes in the first Avengers, which I still praise.

But the second half, I really like. The Korea part is probably the best set piece in the movie, both for the truck chase sequence and the runaway train, which felt sufficiently physical. I don't find the Sokovia civilian rescues boring. It's what I enjoy seeing, and Whedon did a good job breaking that one gigantic battle into smaller, enjoyable bits. Not as well as Battle of NY, but still cool.

[DavidSeven]

For you guys who are mixed, does that mean you're not going to want to watch it again?

I won't watch it again in theaters. Maybe sometime down the road, but it won't ever be a priority. I think my initial response is about where consensus has landed: it's okay; MCU's influence maybe a little too strong; Whedon could've exerted more of himself into the piece, etc. I lean 'yay' because it's still a step up from most Marvel films, but just a marginal one this time.

The problem is that this sequel doesn't really feel like an evolution from the first one. Similar story beats, style, robot/city annihilation. Why watch this one again when I could just re-watch the first Avengers, which is basically the same movie but better? The most iconic sequels seem to do something different whether that be in structure or style -- e.g. The Godfather 2 is a different experience than The Godfather; The Dark Knight is totally different than Batman Begins; same thing with The Empire Strikes Back. Hell, I could even throw out Ocean's 12 (underrated) as an example of where they at least tried something different.

[Skitch]

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

Its been out here for what, 6 days? I hate going to the theater and usually wait for second run so I don't have to deal with people, with sold out crowds and record breaking box office, its going to be a while before I get to see it.

[Dukefrukem]

The problem is that this sequel doesn't really feel like an evolution from the first one. Similar story beats, style, robot/city annihilation.

Feels way darker in tone to me.

[Sycophant]

Only 13 MCers have seen this?

It has been less than a week. That said, I, for one, will almost certainly not see this. Unless I'm forced to when visiting family or something.


For you guys who are mixed, does that mean you're not going to want to watch it again?

Who has time to watch movies they're mixed on more than once? Especially not any time soon.

[Dukefrukem]

It has been less than a week. That said, I, for one, will almost certainly not see this. Unless I'm forced to when visiting family or something.



Who has time to watch movies they're mixed on more than once? Especially not any time soon.

Sorry my posts were so outrageously offensive.

[Winston*]

Who has time to watch movies they're mixed on more than once? Especially not any time soon.

Yeah. I'll almost never even watch films I loved more than once, outside of retrospective cinema screenings.

[Watashi]

The only MCU movie I've seen more than once was The Avengers which I saw for a second time last week prior before Ultron.

I only see a handful of new releases more than once. Even films I love.

[Watashi]

Looking back at the last 5 years, here are the new releases I've seen more than once:

Boyhood*
It's Such a Beautiful Day
X-Men Days of Future Past
The LEGO Movie
ParaNorman
The Avengers
The Cabin in the Woods*
Girl Walk // All Day
Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
The Tree of Life*
Attack the Block
Tron Legacy*
The Social Network
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World*
Inception*

*in theaters

[Winston*]

Feels way darker in tone to me.

I think this is to its detriment.

[Skitch]

Im a rewatcher for sure. With as many Netflix grenades I waste time on, sometimes a sure thing is a must.

Or with something like Interstellar, my score for that flick jumped up 2 points on rewatch last week.

[Dukefrukem]

I wish Letterboxd told me how many times I rewatched films.

Oh wait it totally does. 13 this year for me out of 92 (http://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/films/diary/year/2015/).

[transmogrifier]

I haven't rewatched any of the Marvel films, and don't really plan to. This year I decided to not rewatch any films at all, and I think it is for the better - though I do miss it when I'm sick, because all I want is comfort food then. Next step is to stop rewatching TV.

[Grouchy]

A little surprised the consensus here leans so much towards the negative - I got a kick out of this. It might be that I turned off my brain during the first scene (assault on Von Strucker's castle) and I was a committed fanboy for the rest of the movie, but I think it's better than the first one if only for sheer epic value. I also think it does a better job at giving every character his due screentime and share of dramatic conflict, even if in Hawkeye's case it feels like an apology for the first one.

Also, come on. This movie has a lot of positives. Ultron's first appearance is effectively creepy although I didn't really expect him to start cracking jokes in the next scene, not so sure about that. The fight scenes are great. Evans and Downey Jr. have developed an effective chemistry that I look forward to seeing explode in Civil War. Vision's Mjolnir moment is awesome, as is the banter scene that sets it up. Funniest Stan Lee cameo in a while. And the Natasha/Hulk romance was a curious idea, but I think it works, specially if they're planning to do Planet Hulk, WWH or both.

All the online sociopaths who complained that Black Widow was sidelined must have been watching a different movie.

[Dukefrukem]

All the online sociopaths who complained that Black Widow was sidelined must have been watching a different movie.

Yeh I at the beginning of the thread, I expressed concerns about this, but she kicks some serious ass throughout the entire movie- plus that awesome motorcycle scene and the incredible POV shot of her and the cradle falling into the hover jet. Loved that shot.

[bac0n]

So, any Moms or Dads who have seen this - do you think this movie would be appropriate for a 6 year old girl?

[[ETM]]

Ultron's first appearance is effectively creepy although I didn't really expect him to start cracking jokes in the next scene, not so sure about that.

I suppose it should have been made clearer earlier on that Ultron is in a very large part based on Stark's mental profile. They even crack the same jokes at the same time throughout the movie.

[Grouchy]

;539476']I suppose it should have been made clearer earlier on that Ultron is in a very large part based on Stark's mental profile. They even crack the same jokes at the same time throughout the movie.
Yeah, that was not correctly explained.


So, any Moms or Dads who have seen this - do you think this movie would be appropriate for a 6 year old girl?
I don't think it will be inappropriate but I do think she will be bored.

[BuffaloWilder]

Enh, this was okay. Outside of Iron Man, The Winter Soldier and Guardians of The Galaxy, these Marvel movies just kind of exemplify sameness to me. To be fair, they've only got the one song, but it's a pretty enjoyable song. I end up seeing every one of them, and this was no exception.

There's not really much to comment on - it's not very creative aesthetically or narratively, and I thought it was a little funny that Cap'n America cared so much about innocents not dying at the end when Hulk and Iron Man basically just destroyed half of Capetown or wherever it was, earlier in the film. But I thought Spader's performance as Ultron was great and wonderfully, unnervingly human, and made for a lot of good humor. His birth sequence was interesting as well, being represented by two abstract balls of light - but, the scenes of Banner and Stark creating him over a night were pretty ridiculous.

I liked that Hawkeye had a family. He's a nice counterpoint to the ridiculousness of everything else going on, and provides a welcome narrative focal point. Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Elizabeth Olsen or their characters don't make much of an impression at all, and I think it's pretty well-accepted that Bryan Singer did it better.

Enh.

[Dukefrukem]

Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Elizabeth Olsen or their characters don't make much of an impression at all,

If you were critiquing Godzilla I would agree with you.

[Spun Lepton]

Thor's whole solo bit leading into The Vision's creation didn't work for me. There was more focus on group dynamics and the action scenes weren't quite as grand or exciting as the first film, but they were still engaging and fun. Overall, very good, very entertaining, but not quite as good as the original.

[Dukefrukem]

Thor's whole solo bit leading into The Vision's creation didn't work for me.

This is the scene that Whedon wanted out of the movie. There was a huge portion cut. Including the mysterious woman.

http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/54b557d9ecad046a2e55d9a6-1893-801/avengers-ultron-mystery-woman.png

[Pop Trash]

There's some good stuff here and there, but yeah this was way too long, and -maybe I just noticed it more than other Marvel movies this time- there is a cookie cutter quality to how it's shot, edited, CGI'd, and the color palette. I'm also over RDJ (more so than ever) and a lot of his snark and jokes fell flat to me (and the rest of the audience I watched it with...crickets chirping). I still like Thor and his bits got the biggest laugh. I also still really like Ruffalo's take on Bruce Banner.

[Dukefrukem]

"Keep them coming, until they blot out all the light"

Bwhahahahaha


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogx_24aoRpg

[kuehnepips]

So, any Moms or Dads who have seen this - do you think this movie would be appropriate for a 6 year old girl?

No. It is also wrong for a 55-years old girl.

[megladon8]

Just saw this.

So what was the rape joke that the entire internet lost its mind over and decided Whedon deserves scorn for the rest of his life?

Must've missed it.

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, I don't think any of that happened.

[megladon8]

Really? Despite denying that it was the reason, Whedon deleted his social media accounts because of the backlash. And he lost his status as a feminist ally.

But I am genuinely lost as to what the joke was that caused the uproar.

[megladon8]

As most have said before it's good, not as good as the first. Ultron's design isn't very good and I'm already tired of seeing the Avengers beat up armies of faceless minions.

Vision was awesome. A great addition and I hope he has a presence in future films.

Also thought Scarlet Witch was great. Her turn around with Hawkeye was a good scene.

Lots of good stuff. Feels a bit pointless and status quo, but had a lot of fun.

[Peng]

Whedon deleted his twitter because he wanted a break after this film, at least according to him (http://www.techtimes.com/articles/51162/20150506/joss-whedon-explains-why-he-deleted-his-twitter.htm). But I think the act feels in line with the general feeling of exhaustion he showed in the big interview before the film came out.

[megladon8]

Whedon deleted his twitter because he wanted a break after this film, at least according to him (http://www.techtimes.com/articles/51162/20150506/joss-whedon-explains-why-he-deleted-his-twitter.htm). But I think the act feels in line with the general feeling of exhaustion he showed in the big interview before the film came out.


That's his explanation, yes, but it was obviously due to the backlash from the joke in this film, and I still don't know what that joke was.

It wasn't the "hide the zucchini" bit was it? Because that would be ludicrous on so many levels.

[Neclord]

It's Tony's line (paraphrased) "If I win, can I reinstitute Prima Nocta?" when they're all trying to lift Thor's hammer.

[megladon8]

Yeah, that's silly.

[transmogrifier]

I meant that I only heard about it on here. Maybe I don't hang out in the right places.

[Dukefrukem]

Really? Despite denying that it was the reason, Whedon deleted his social media accounts because of the backlash. And he lost his status as a feminist ally.

But I am genuinely lost as to what the joke was that caused the uproar.

He didn't delete his social media account because of the backlash.

Edit: Peng beat me to it.

[megladon8]

I didn't notice the poor CGI in the opening scene, but I saw it in 3D and I often find that makes it more difficult to pick stuff like that up. I'll keep an eye out when I pick up the BRD.

Can't get over how much I enjoyed the new characters. Vision was so damn cool, and Scarlet Witch's scream of anguish was much more tear-jerking than the moment it was coupled with.

Would love to see solo films for both characters.

Despite there only being like 20 people in the theatre, there was an audible gasp when Vision had his moment with Thor's hammer.

[DavidSeven]

I think most of the online backlash actually came from the moment where Black Widow revealed she was no longer able to conceive children and that this made her a "monster" comparable to Banner in his Hulk-state. Not saying I agree with the critique, but I believe that's where Whedon got the most heat.

[Henry Gale]

I think most of the online backlash actually came from the moment where Black Widow revealed she was no longer able to conceive children and that this made her a "monster" comparable to Banner in his Hulk-state. Not saying I agree with the critique, but I believe that's where Whedon got the most heat.

Oh. Wow. I didn't even think this was a reading of this that could be had. I thought her view of herself as a monster had a lot more to do with her being turned into a brainwashed, bio-engineered, government weapon with questionable grasps of her own control, and as a part of that being forced to become infertile before she was even an adult. She was never allowed to properly deal with such ideas as a life beyond her missions as "distractions". That's where the traumatizing horror lies, more than just the fact that she can't conceive, but why she can't.

Sure, the movies have never delved into her mutated/hyper-abilities as much as her comic counterpart, but she's basically a female Wolverine without the adamantium and even though it's not explicitly said I'm sure he deals with similar conditions and thoughts, without confiding in anyone on screen about them.

[megladon8]

Oh. Wow. I didn't even think this was a reading of this that could be had. I thought her view of herself as a monster had a lot more to do with her being turned into a brainwashed, bio-engineered, government weapon with questionable grasps of her own control, and as a part of that being forced to become infertile before she was even an adult. She was never allowed to properly deal with such ideas as a life beyond her missions as "distractions". That's where the traumatizing horror lies, more than just the fact that she can't conceive, but why she can't.

Yes, because this is the correct reading.

She was not stating that she is a monster because she can't have children. That's absurd.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnZ_-5I72ec

[Dukefrukem]

As far as the quicksilver scene at the end...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NnyVc8r2SM

[Dead & Messed Up]

I think I enjoyed this more because my expectations were tempered. Hawkeye was MVP, the bit with Vision and the Hammer made my entire audience gasp and explode into laughter. The nonchalant way he did it was just so satisfying, and a tremendous unexpected payoff to the earlier party scene. The flick's overlong and too heavy with the action, but Whedon does better than most of the other Marvelers at playing the material with the just-serious-enough stakes and abundance of pithy patter.

[Irish]

I take back every bad thing I ever said about Captain America (and, by extension, Chris Evans).

Especially if it means Cap will smack the smug right off Tony's face in Civil War.

[number8]

It's the image of him woodchopping, wasn't it?

[Irish]

Ha!

I tell myself that they CGI those scenes so I don't look down at my own body and feel badly about my life choices.

More seriously—that exchange is the best scene in the movie. Hands down. Evans' line, "Every time someone tries to win a war before it starts, innocent people die. Every time." His delivery is perfect.

That got to me.

I went back and watched Winter Soldier. When Fury shows Cap Project Insight for the first time, Cap doesn't hesitate to say, "You're holding a gun to the world's head." I really like that about the character.

Then I re-watched First Avenger, which I originally found mediocre. This time: strong pacing, a decent story, and fun characters. I liked the way Cap tells Dr Erskine "I don't want to kill anybody. But I don't like bullies, no matter where they're from." The movie nails the tone half way between comic book exuberance and Buck Rogers fantasy. So now I'm coming around to thinking FA really is the perfect Marvel movie.

They could probably stand to develop the supporting characters more across the franchise. And I find it both interesting and disappointing the way both FA and WS evoke big ideas but don't explore them fully. Still—hour for hour, the Captain America stuff is worlds better than anything else Marvel has done.

I wouldn't call myself a fanboy but I've at least sipped the Kool-Aid. I dig the character and I like Evans in the role.

For the first time since they started all this MCU shit, I find myself really anticipating the next movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Irish that's the same reaction I had after re-watching the first Captain movie. I thought it was just a filler movie the first time I watched it but boy was I dead wrong. Even the in-your-face stuff like diving on the grenade really paints the character well.

[Milky Joe]

My favorite line from the Cap in The Avengers is when Thor appears to take Loki while they're on the plane and Iron Man goes after him. Black Widow tells Cap "I'd stay out of this one, these guys are basically Gods." And without missing a beat Cap says "There's only one God where I'm from," and dives out of the plane after them, even though he can't fly. Badass.

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeDJAKvcZ9o

[TGM]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf-_230SjbM

[Skitch]

Ill give it a pass for the handful of awesome Whedon dialogue and moments, but this was very uneven. How many times did they say 'help the people' or 'save the people' or 'move the people'? 7? 10? It was seriously distracting. They go out of their way to really bash the audience over the head with "we're not letting any people die!!" but then have a couple scenes hi-5ing each other about the bad guys they killed?

Man this felt like it was taken away from Whedon. Half this movie didnt feel like him at all.