Iron Man

[Grouchy]

I was reminded of what Meg said in the "The Mist discussion thread." I think it was him that lauded the near absence of a soundtrack and there are times when I agree with such a pov. Yes, Iron Man is a vastly different film, but no rock music please. Or perhaps they needed the rock music to create a feeling of badasness so that audiences would be shocked when the ambush came. Either way, minor nuisance is all.
I liked the music. Heavy metal for the metal hero.

[number8]

It's deliberately tongue in cheek. That's why I was mistified when meg said that it has a generic action movie soundtrack. It really doesn't have the usual Bruckheimer score. It's either rock music (good rock, too) or up-tempo guitar riffs. It's a very fitting sound for the character. Especially when they established that that's the kind of music Tony Stark listens to.

[Morris Schæffer]

It's deliberately tongue in cheek. That's why I was mistified when meg said that it has a generic action movie soundtrack.

This comes straight from the makers? Anyway, to hell with tongue in cheek in this case. Knowing that in no way enhances the movie for me.


It really doesn't have the usual Bruckheimer score.

Neither do X2 and Spider-Man.


It's either rock music (good rock, too) or up-tempo guitar riffs. It's a very fitting sound for the character. Especially when they established that that's the kind of music Tony Stark listens to.

Too bad Stark doesn't favor Hans Zimmer then.;)

[number8]

This comes straight from the makers?

No, but it's pretty obvious, isn't it? The movie's theme song is Black Sabbath's Iron Man.


Too bad Stark doesn't favor Hans Zimmer then.;)

What is he, some lame guy on a movie forum?

[Sycophant]

The music, I thought, was one of the better points of Iron Man.

[Watashi]

What the hell is your problem, Morris?

[megladon8]

Like I said in my review, I thought the idea of having heavy metal music for Iron Man made sense, and I fully endorsed that.

This was not my beef.

My beef was that there was a complete lack of a good, iconic theme song. Sure, there was "Iron Man" by Black Sabbath, but I really wouldn't call that the theme song. It was used for a comedic moment at the end of the film.

It needed something like Danny Elfman's theme for Batman.

[number8]

I would, in fact, argue against that. The unique thing about Iron Man is that he's not an iconic figure like Bats, Supes or Captain America. He's all about advancement--the only hero constantly changing to adapt to the latest technology--and a constant recurring theme just doesn't suit right. It's more fitting for him to soar into action with a diferrent tune each time, like an overgrown iPod.

[megladon8]

I would, in fact, argue against that. The unique thing about Iron Man is that he's not an iconic figure like Bats, Supes or Captain America. He's all about advancement--the only hero constantly changing to adapt to the latest technology--and a constant recurring theme just doesn't suit right. It's more fitting for him to soar into action with a diferrent tune each time, like an overgrown iPod.


I see what you're saying, but I would like to see that done in a more concrete manner, rather than through the music. Show the technological advancements he's making, show how his suit changes, show how he is able to eventually solve the problem of the shrapnel in his chest.

Based on how Iron Man has become such a prominent figure in Marvel lore over the last couple of years, and also juding by the insane nubmers the film has raked in, I think Iron Man may very well be the next iconic figure in the superhero world.

He doesn't need some overly patriotic march every time he takes flight, but a good, recognizable theme would definitely benefit the franchise.

Something which, when you hear it, immediately makes you think "oh yeah, Iron Man".

[Watashi]

Iron Man does have a theme: http://youtube.com/watch?v=m7jrsVN4z44&feature=related

[megladon8]

Iron Man does have a theme: http://youtube.com/watch?v=m7jrsVN4z44&feature=related


Was that like, only played during the end credits or something?

Because I don't recall hearing that even once during the movie.


EDIT: The ending where it builds may have played once or twice, but it's certainly not memorable.

And that's my point.

[number8]

Was that like, only played during the end credits or something?

Because I don't recall hearing that even once during the movie.

They actually play that every time he's building a new suit, I believe.

I definitely recognize it, but it doesn't stand out. Which is great.

[megladon8]

I guess it's just personal preference then.

My love for the character made me want a strong theme.

[Barty]

I guess it's just personal preference then.

My love for the character made me want a strong theme.

Exactly.

As Steiner said, "What good is music if you don't hear it?"

[Morris Schæffer]

I'm all for a soundtrack complementing the on-screen imagery and being in tune with the general theme of a movie, but Iron Man is a poor example. Look no further than Brad Fiedel's metallic Terminator scores for a faaaaaar superior example and not just the main theme. There's nothing in Iron Man that screamed to me "that's so him!!!!"

[megladon8]

Captain America's Shield Found in Iron Man? (http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/05/09/captain-americas-shield-found-in-iron-man/)

[Grouchy]

Captain America's Shield Found in Iron Man? (http://www.firstshowing.net/2008/05/09/captain-americas-shield-found-in-iron-man/)
Huh, the writer of the article doesn't know that Captain America is originally a WWII hero and he already had the shield back in the day.

That's fucking awesome, anyway. I'll wait for the DVD to spot it, though.

[number8]

Huh, the writer of the article doesn't know that Captain America is originally a WWII hero and he already had the shield back in the day.

That's... not true. He used a a badge-shaped shield in WWII. The round shield he got from the Avengers after they revived him.

[Grouchy]

That's... not true. He used a a badge-shaped shield in WWII. The round shield he got from the Avengers after they revived him.
Yeah, ok, you got me there.

But I bet the writer of the article didn't know that. And he probably smells funny.

[monolith94]

This was ok. Didn't feel as high stakes as better superhero films, as compelling. Neither as offensive as Batman Begins, for example, but nor as ambitious. I had fun. But not a bucketload of fun. A modest parcel of fun.

[megladon8]

This was ok. Didn't feel as high stakes as better superhero films, as compelling. Neither as offensive as Batman Begins, for example, but nor as ambitious. I had fun. But not a bucketload of fun. A modest parcel of fun.


What's offensive about Batman Begins?

[transmogrifier]

What's offensive about Batman Begins?

It's kind of boring. Boring is offensive. It's implying that I'm satisfied with boring stuff. Which implies I'm boring. Which offends me.

[monolith94]

What's offensive about Batman Begins?
Batman's "Macho Man Randy Savage" voice. The cheese which did seep into the script.

Hell, I'll just forward you to my review (http://www.everyonesacritic.net/movie_review.asp?ratingid=3842 02).

[Morris Schæffer]

It's kind of boring. Boring is offensive. It's implying that I'm satisfied with boring stuff. Which implies I'm boring. Which offends me.

You sure sound boring.:P

[megladon8]

Batman's "Macho Man Randy Savage" voice. The cheese which did seep into the script.

Hell, I'll just forward you to my review (http://www.everyonesacritic.net/movie_review.asp?ratingid=3842 02).


Hmm...nice review, though I disagree with pretty much everything you say :P

It's nice to see someone who put some thought into the film. It deserves it.

[monolith94]

Well, I like Christopher Nolan. Like, a lot – so I really wanted to explore why I didn't like Batman Begins, as I had been expecting to.

[megladon8]

Well, I like Christopher Nolan. Like, a lot – so I really wanted to explore why I didn't like Batman Begins, as I had been expecting to.


Indeed.

I'm glad you put thought into it. I hate when people blindly dismiss something with "I didn't like it".

I enjoyed reading your review!

What did you think of The Prestige? Were you more impressed with that one?

[monolith94]

That's the thing - I LOVED the Prestige. Second only to the Fountain for its year.

[megladon8]

That's the thing - I LOVED the Prestige. Second only to the Fountain for its year.


Carrying this over to Y tu Film...

[Watashi]

It's a little late, but Roger Ebert finally wrote a review and it's a good one:


When I caught up with "Iron Man," a broken hip had delayed me and the movie had already been playing for three weeks. What I heard during that time was that a lot of people loved it, that they were surprised to love it so much, and that Robert Downey Jr.'s performance was special. Apart from that, all I knew was that the movie was about a big iron man. I didn't even know that a human occupied it, and halfway thought that the Downey character's brain had been transplanted into a robot, or a fate equally weird.

Yes, I knew I was looking at sets and special effects--but I'm referring to the reality of the illusion, if that make any sense. With many superhero movies, all you get is the surface of the illusion. With "Iron Man," you get a glimpse into the depths. You get the feeling, for example, of a functioning corporation. Consider the characters of Pepper Potts (Gwyneth Paltrow), Stark's loyal aide, and Obadiah Stane (Jeff Bridges), Stark's business partner. They don't feel drummed up for the occasion. They seem to have worked together for awhile.

Much of that feeling is created by the chemistry involving Downey, Paltrow and Bridges. They have relationships that seem fully-formed and resilient enough to last through the whole movie, even if plot mechanics were not about to take them to another level. Between the two men, there are echoes of the relationship between Howard Hughes and Noah Dietrich in Scorsese's "The Aviator" (2004). Obadiah Stane doesn't come onscreen waving flags and winking at the camera to announce he is the villain; he seems adequately explained simply as the voice of reason at Stark's press conference. (Why did "Stark," during that scene, make me think of "staring mad?"). Between Stark and Pepper, there's that classic screen tension between "friends" who know they can potentially become lovers.

Downey's performance is intriguing, and unexpected. He doesn't behave like most superheroes: he lacks the psychic weight and gravitas. Tony Stark is created from the persona Downey has fashioned through many movies: irreverent, quirky, self-deprecating, wise-cracking. The fact that Downey is allowed to think and talk the way he does while wearing all that hardware represents a bold decision by the director, Jon Favreau. If he hadn't desired that, he probably wouldn't have hired Downey. So comfortable is Downey with Tony Stark's dialogue, so familiar does it sound coming from him, that the screenplay seems almost to have been dictated by Downey's persona.

There are some things that some actors can safely say onscreen, and other things they can't. The Robert Downey Jr. persona would find it difficult to get away with weighty, profound statements (in an "entertainment," anyway--a more serious film like "Zodiac" is another matter). Some superheroes speak in a kind of heightened, semi-formal prose, as if dictating to Bartlett's Familiar Quotations. Not Tony Stark. He could talk that way and be Juno's uncle. "Iron Man" doesn't seem to know how seriously most superhero movies take themselves. If there is wit in the dialog, the superhero is often supposed to be unaware of it. If there is broad humor, it usually belongs to the villain. What happens in "Iron Man," however, is that sometimes we wonder how seriously even Stark takes it. He's flippant in the face of disaster, casual on the brink of ruin.

It's prudent, I think, that Favreau positions the rest of the characters in a more serious vein. The supporting cast wisely does not try to one-up him. Gwyneth Paltrow plays Pepper Potts as a woman who is seriously concerned that this goofball will kill himself. Jeff Bridges makes Obadiah Stane one of the great superhero villains by seeming plausibly concerned about the stock price. Terrence Howard, as Col. Rhodes, is at every moment a conventional straight arrow. What a horror show it would have been if they were all tuned to Tony Stark's sardonic wave length. We'd be back in the world of "Swingers" (2006) which was written by Favreau.

Another of the film's novelties is that the enemy is not a conspiracy or spy organization. It is instead the reality in our own world today: Armaments are escalating beyond the ability to control them. In most movies in this genre, the goal would be to create bigger and better weapons. How unique that Tony Stark wants to disarm. It makes him a superhero who can think, reason and draw moral conclusions, instead of one who recites platitudes.

The movie is largely founded on its special effects. When somebody isn’t talking, something is banging, clanging or laying rubber. The armored robotic suits utilized by Tony and Obadiah would upstage lesser actors than Downey and Bridges; it's surprising how much those two giant iron men seem to reflect the personalities of the men inside them. Everything they do is preposterous, of course, but they seem to be doing it, not the suits. Some of their moments have real grandeur--as when Tony tests his suit to see how high it will fly, and it finally falls back toward earth in a sequence that reminded me of a similar challenge in "The Right Stuff." The art direction is inspired by the original Marvel artists. The movie doesn't reproduce the drawings of Jack Kirby and others, but it reproduces their feeling, a vision of out-scale enormity, seamless sleekness, secret laboratories made not of nuts and bolts but of...vistas.

A lot of big budget f/x epics seem to abandon their stories with half an hour to go, and just throw effects at the audience. This one has a plot so ingenious it continues to function no matter how loud the impacts, how enormous the explosions. It’s an inspiration to provide Tony with that heart-saving device; he’s vulnerable not simply because Obadiah might destroy him, but because he might simply run out of juice.

That leaves us, however, with a fundamental question at the bottom of the story: Why must the ultimate weapon be humanoid in appearance? Why must it have two arms and two legs, and why does it matter if its face is scowling? In the real-world competitions between fighting machines, all the elements of design are based entirely on questions of how well they allow the machines to attack, defend, recover, stay upright, and overturn their enemies. It is irrelevant whether they have conventional eyes, or whether those eyes narrow. Nor does it matter whether they have noses, because their oxygen supply is obviously not obtained by breathing.

The solution to such dilemmas is that the armored suits look the way they do for entirely cinematic reasons. The bad iron man should look like a mean machine. The good iron man should utilize the racing colors of Tony Stark's favorite sports cars. It wouldn't be nearly as much fun to see a fight scene between two refrigerators crossed with the leftovers from a boiler room.

At the end of the day it 's Robert Downey Jr. who powers the lift-off separating this from most other superhero movies. You hire an actor for his strengths, and Downey would not be strong as a one-dimensional mighty-man. He is strong because he is smart, quick and funny, and because we sense his public persona masks deep private wounds. By building on that, Favreau found his movie, and it's a good one.

[megladon8]

Saw it again tonight, with my brother.

Even better the second time.

The Dark Knight is going to have to do a lot to top this.

[Morris Schæffer]

Saw it again tonight, with my brother.

Even better the second time.

The Dark Knight is going to have to do a lot to top this.

Bold words. I still remember how gaga you went over Batman Begins. That, coupled with the buzz surrounding Ledger's performance mark your words out as very bold. Okay, so I wasn't too enamored with Iron Man, but considering the praise heaped upon it, I guess I'll chalk it all up to people responding differently to stuff. Nevertheless, I predict that The Dark Knight will have a ridiculously easy time trouncing Iron Man when it comes to villains and soundtrack. Are you at least with me on that? :)

[megladon8]

Bold words. I still remember how gaga you went over Batman Begins. That, coupled with the buzz surrounding Ledger's performance mark your words out as very bold. Okay, so I wasn't too enamored with Iron Man, but considering the praise heaped upon it, I guess I'll chalk it all up to people responding differently to stuff. Nevertheless, I predict that The Dark Knight will have a ridiculously easy time trouncing Iron Man when it comes to villains and soundtrack. Are you at least with me on that? :)


Oh for sure.

But the casting of Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark trumps any of the casting in the Nolan Batman films so far (I'm not counting Ledger's Joker since we haven't seen it yet).

Bale rocks as Batman, he's the best yet. But RDJ as Stark was just, like, wow. Inspired casting. Best comic book movie casting since Christopher Reeve as Superman.

And there were so many moments that just blew me away in Iron Man - action sequences, wonderful dialogue.

And Iron Man had a great conscience and heart, as well.

Like I said, The Dark Knight will have to do a lot to be better than this.

[megladon8]

It helped Paramount cross the $1 billion mark for 2008 already. (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117987522.html?categoryid=1 3&cs=1&nid=2562)


I guess there won't be a sequel :cry:

[Sycophant]

It has officially crossed the $1 billion mark. (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117987522.html?categoryid=1 3&cs=1&nid=2562)


I guess there won't be a sequel :cry:A couple of things I don't understand about your post here, meg:

1) This article is about Paramount Pictures International making $1 billion in 2008; Iron Man has made $250 million international.
2) That last bit was sarcasm, right?

[megladon8]

A couple of things I don't understand about your post here, meg:

1) This article is about Paramount Pictures International making $1 billion in 2008; Iron Man has made $250 million international.
2) That last bit was sarcasm, right?


1) Yes, I read it wrong. Fixed.

*slaps forehead*

2) Yes, obviously. :P

[Dukefrukem]

pretty good movie... I'm guessing War Machine will be implimented in the 2nd movie since Rhodes almost flat out told us.... "Next time baby"

[Kurosawa Fan]

Blah. Next time I say I'm done with comic book films, I need to stick to my guns. Fell into all the same cliche moments that countless other comic book films have done. Downey was charming, sure, but not enough to make the film worthwhile. Also, for the sake of the fans, everyone should be thankful they replaced Terrence Howard with Cheadle. He had the charisma of a cardboard cutout. I actually fell asleep the first time I tried to watch this. That should have been a sign.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't think it's one of the stronger comic book movies, but I did enjoy the movie because of Downey. He fits the character well. This reminds me, i'm going to finish my comic book list thread tonight. or at least resurrect it.

[lovejuice]

I don't think it's one of the stronger comic book movies, but I did enjoy the movie because of Downey. He fits the character well. This reminds me, i'm going to finish my comic book list thread tonight. or at least resurrect it.
wanna race? i have 7 entries left in my book thread. and i agree with both you and KF on Iron Man.

[megladon8]

KF, I feel like I just don't know you anymore.

[Kurosawa Fan]

KF, I feel like I just don't know you anymore.

I'm just sick of the format. They're all the same. They follow the same blueprint. I was hoping Iron Man would stray from that. Not at all.

[megladon8]

I thought it still managed to execute that format really, really well. I liked its emphasis on clever, funny dialogue.

I can understand one's gripes with superhero movies - there have been a hell of a lot of them over the last decade. Too many. But it's been gravy-town for me - it'd be like asking number8 to be sick of Takeshi Kitano movies. It just won't happen.

[number8]

What an odd example.

[Sycophant]

I still reflect from time to time about how much I dislike this movie. Not as much as I reflect on how much I like Takeshi Kitano films, though. Nor as much as I... sleep.

[megladon8]

It must suck to dislike great things.

[megladon8]

What an odd example.


Really? I thought it was quite apt.

If Takeshi Kitano produced, directed and starred in 3+ films a year, I would picture you being thrilled.

[Watashi]

This film is so awesome.

[Dead & Messed Up]

This film is so awesome.

Well, it's good anyway.

[Rowland]

I liked it. I can understand arguments about how it implicitly supports the US war machine despite its largely facile political message to the contrary, that it strictly adheres to an increasingly worn template, and that Favreau's direction is stylistically indistinct, but I found it a proficient example of lightweight mainstream entertainment that is never mean-spirited, "neat" in an endearingly old-fashioned kinda way, playfully performed by its game cast, and actually funnier than most straight-up comedies.

[megladon8]

I liked it. I can understand arguments about how it implicitly supports the US war machine despite its largely facile political message to the contrary, that it strictly adheres to an increasingly worn template, and that Favreau's direction is stylistically indistinct, but I found it a proficient example of lightweight mainstream entertainment that is never mean-spirited, "neat" in an endearingly old-fashioned kinda way, playfully performed by its game cast, and actually funnier than most straight-up comedies.


Pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything you wrote here.

[Sycophant]

Takeshi Kitano is a great and singularly, idiosyncratic artist. The rogue's gallery of directors of the last 12 years of comic book films aren't (though there are a couple among them).

[megladon8]

I don't really understand the point of that statement.

[Sycophant]

Basically, that your Kitano analogy still seems wack.

[megladon8]

Ah, so it was just another opportunity for you to yet again state your distaste for superhero movies.

Gotcha.

[Winston*]

If you really liked chocolate and you were regularly given lots of chocolate but more than half of the chocolate was rotten but you kept eating all of the chocolate just in case the chocolate was good chocolate and you got all fat and sick, then what happens?

[megladon8]

Chocolate can go rotten?

I thought it just got that white chalky stuff on the outside. Which you just scrape off, and eat the still-perfectly-good chocolate underneath.

[Russ]

If you really liked chocolate and you were regularly given lots of chocolate but more than half of the chocolate was rotten but you kept eating all of the chocolate just in case the chocolate was good chocolate and you got all fat and sick, then what happens?

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7152/comicbookguy.jpg

[Winston*]

Chocolate can go rotten?

I thought it just got that white chalky stuff on the outside. Which you just scrape off, and eat the still-perfectly-good chocolate underneath.

I don't think I understand this analogy anymore.

Also, gross.

[Malickfan]

It's tons better than daredevil so it has that going for it.

[megladon8]

I don't think I understand this analogy anymore.

Also, gross.



OK, let's say I made a Time Pie and sent it to my pre-past self. But when it gets there, he has to find the Time Pie recipe and make one for himself because the ingredients don't exist yet!

Here's a pie chart that shows you how to make your own Time Pie...

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5968/piechart.jpg

[Derek]

http://thoughts.bridiesullivan.com/files/2009/03/spaghetti-cat.jpg

[megladon8]

How anyone can dislike the movie that led to this thread is just beyond me.

[number8]

http://pics.livejournal.com/kijikun/pic/000759ed

[megladon8]

I know several women who would pay good money to watch Robert Downey Jr. give a strip show.

[Derek]

How anyone can dislike the movie that led to this thread is just beyond me.

Eh, I think Rowland's comparison to inferior lightweight mainstream entertainment and straight-up comedies, most of which are mediocre at best, is telling. If you compare Iron Man to other similar films, such as those and other comic book movies, it can start to look really good. But to me, that's simply a matter of setting the bar too low. On it's own terms, it's passable and mildly entertaining, but still has no personal style or flair outside of Downey's performance.

I think that's what Sycophant is getting at - each Kitano film is unique and personal while most comic book movies are conventional and riddled with cliches.

[number8]

That reminds me, where is trans? I miss him.

[Boner M]

That reminds me, where is trans? I miss him.
Hopefully he'll return around Oscar season/year-end awards. That's when he's on top form.

[Derek]

Hopefully he'll return around Oscar season/year-end awards. That's when he's on top form.

Why if you're wrong? :sad:

Sorry.

[Russ]

Hopefully he'll return around Oscar season/year-end awards. That's when he's on top form.
Why if you're wrong? :sad:

Sorry.
Then I suppose Boner will have to retract.

Sorry.

Why the hell is going on here?

[Rowland]

Eh, I think Rowland's comparison to inferior lightweight mainstream entertainment and straight-up comedies, most of which are mediocre at best, is telling. If you compare Iron Man to other similar films, such as those and other comic book movies, it can start to look really good. But to me, that's simply a matter of setting the bar too low. On it's own terms, it's passable and mildly entertaining, but still has no personal style or flair outside of Downey's performance.Fair enough. I wasn't making any great claims for the film mind you, just describing why I liked it.

[megladon8]

You guys all need to eat some Time Pie.

[Morris Schæffer]

Blah. Next time I say I'm done with comic book films, I need to stick to my guns. Fell into all the same cliche moments that countless other comic book films have done. Downey was charming, sure, but not enough to make the film worthwhile. Also, for the sake of the fans, everyone should be thankful they replaced Terrence Howard with Cheadle. He had the charisma of a cardboard cutout. I actually fell asleep the first time I tried to watch this. That should have been a sign.

Downey Jr.'s acerbic wit was awesome and I still think a sequel can soar much higher, but this was indeed utterly standard comicbook shenanigans. Loved the final line however. Fuck secrecy!