The Leftovers (Season 1)

[number8]

Well, that was... interesting. Spent much more time with symbolism than I expected for a first episode.

I guess because it's HBO they could afford to be much more guarded about what the show is about and not throw out an obvious hook on the pilot. I imagine people would be fucking baffled if this was on a network, or even basic cable, since it's almost self-contained in a way, without any apparent threads to follow to the next episode.

Pretty compelling performances, though. Another proof that Peter Berg is better off doing intense real people drama than action movies.

The bit about Shaq and Busey made me laugh.

[Watashi]

The book is so mediocre. Hopefully Lindelof spices it up a bit.

[Lucky]

I just woke up on the couch after falling asleep during this pilot. Will finish tomorrow.

[EyesWideOpen]

I liked this. I'm interested to see where it goes.

[Irish]

This was exceptionally well done. Great acting, good structure. Loved the tone, loved the scene level dialogue, very natural. Terrific attention to detail.

But: Two cults is a bit much, and the "white smoke" group is silly in a John-Irving-World-According-to-Garp sort of way.

Even though I enjoyed this, holy shit am I burned out on post apoc stories. Seriously. It's been over ten years of this shit with a whole bunch of series on a whole bunch of networks. When are they gonna say enough is enough? Not everything can be the Walking Dead, FFS.

This is aside from the cultural/ philosophical problem a show like this represents. We've spent billions of dollars, detained, tortured, murdered, and killed a whole slew of people in the last 13 years. Can we really claim, at this point, that we're the injured party, the scrappy underdog, the emotionally damaged, the ones perpetually looking for answers? That doesn't sound quite right to me.

Finally, I fear that Lindelof will get in over his head again. This is another series whose premise rests on a huge mystery. One way or the other, they'll have to solve the mystery and move on sooner rather than later. Or find a way to reposition the show completely. Otherwise, it'll become something about insurmountable grief, week after week, and nobody will want to watch that (cf: Denis Leary's firefighter show).

Anyway, helluva start.

[Ezee E]

I'll await 4-5 episodes before checking this out.

[number8]

This is aside from the cultural/ philosophical problem a show like this represents. We've spent billions of dollars, detained, tortured, murdered, and killed a whole slew of people in the last 13 years. Can we really claim, at this point, that we're the injured party, the scrappy underdog, the emotionally damaged, the ones perpetually looking for answers? That doesn't sound quite right to me.

I actually thought the bit with the deer and the dogs was precisely addressing this.


Finally, I fear that Lindelof will get in over his head again. This is another series whose premise rests on a huge mystery. One way or the other, they'll have to solve the mystery and move on sooner rather than later. Or find a way to reposition the show completely.

I've got a feeling they'll never explain it, since they're mining too many character moments based on what they think happened (hence the competing cults; hell, they'll probably add another at some point).


Otherwise, it'll become something about insurmountable grief, week after week, and nobody will want to watch that (cf: Denis Leary's firefighter show).

I don't disagree, but Rescue Me is an odd example to use for that, since it was decidedly a comedy with goofy main characters people liked, which is why it lasted 7 seasons.

[Dukefrukem]

Finally, I fear that Lindelof will get in over his head again. This is another series whose premise rests on a huge mystery. One way or the other, they'll have to solve the mystery and move on sooner rather than later. Or find a way to reposition the show completely. Otherwise, it'll become something about insurmountable grief, week after week, and nobody will want to watch that (cf: Denis Leary's firefighter show).

Precisely why I decided not to watch this. It's going to end exactly like Lost and it's going to piss me off all over again. Why would anyone want to subject themselves to the inevitable?

I will ONLY watch this is MC absolutely raves about it.

So everyone choose their words wisely.

[Irish]

I actually thought the bit with the deer and the dogs was precisely addressing this.

Yes! The dog and deer thing was one of the reasons I liked the writing so much, because I think you can interpret it two different ways. The first is your way (which I like).

But you can also see it another way, the "2A" way, because the show depicts private gun owners protecting themselves from an external threat when the cop (ie, the government) hesitates to do so. (Cleverly, the final shots of the episode have it both ways, with the cop joining in on the carnage as a way of mitigating his own grief. It's macho and gung-ho and emotional at the same time).

The message of that final scene could just as easily be: It's prudent to take whatever action necessary to protect yourself in times of crisis, even if that means slaughtering former trusted friends.


I've got a feeling they'll never explain it, since they're mining too many character moments based on what they think happened (hence the competing cults; hell, they'll probably add another at some point).

My guess is you're right. They can't resolve the mystery without undermining the show's central purpose. I suspect that they'll goose the audience at the end of the first season by having another 2% disappear. (Although that might be a bit too heavy handed, and focus attention in the wrong places).


I don't disagree, but Rescue Me is an odd example to use for that, since it was decidedly a comedy with goofy main characters people liked, which is why it lasted 7 seasons.

Rescue Me came to mind because when that show started, it was very much grounded in the tragedy of 9/11 and its aftermath. The hero is swamped with PTSD and survivor's guilt and keeps seeing images of his dead brother. It's dark and reflective. They moved beyond that pretty quickly though. By the end of the second season, 9/11 is barely mentioned and the character of the dead brother disappears completely.

It went from focusing on the tragedy to focusing on the lives of the characters. It became the show you describe, a sort of working class comedic soap opera, but it didn't start out that way. The shift is gradual and subtle, but it's definitely there.

[number8]

My guess is you're right. They can't resolve the mystery without undermining the show's central purpose. I suspect that they'll goose the audience at the end of the first season by having another 2% disappear. (Although that might be a bit too heavy handed, and focus attention in the wrong places).

That really depends which side of the HBO genre coin they want to be on. If they want it to be the big surface show like GoT and True Blood, I can absolutely see them doing something like that. If they want to be taken more seriously like how True Detective treated procedurals or Deadwood treated westerns, then they need to really hammer to the audience that the show is absolutely NOT going to be about what caused the disappearance at all, and they'll need to figure out some other hook. Given the title and the tone of the pilot, I'm hoping for the latter.

[number8]

I will ONLY watch this is MC absolutely raves about it.

So everyone choose their words wisely.

It's as excellent as a Terrence Malick movie.

[Irish]

Given the title and the tone of the pilot, I'm hoping for the latter.

Likewise, absolutely.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I thought this was a bit corny. The two cults are a bit much, especially when you factor in that members of our protagonist's family have taken residence with each of them. The choking bit, the clunky symbolism of the dogs and the deer, the slo-mo riot sequence, catatonic Liv Tyler... it all just fell flat for me. Nothing affected me on a significant emotional level. I'll give it a couple more episodes, but if it doesn't improve quickly, I'm out. Lindelof doesn't have much of a leash with me, and this wasn't a promising start.

[Dukefrukem]

It's as excellent as a Terrence Malick movie.

Does not compute.

[EyesWideOpen]

I've been reading some other sites comments about this show and a lot mention that 2% isn't that big of a deal and I think they're missing the point. It's not like 2% of people dropped dead of some illness. They fucking vanished into thin air. It doesn't matter the number it would completely change everything we knew about science and religion. Not to mention make everyone left wonder why they didn't get taken.

[number8]

Did not expect the episode to just open with a gunfight.

[MadMan]

I saw an episode of this while on vacation last week thanks to having HBO at my hotel. What I saw I liked although the show is a bit weird. Also for some reason I didn't recognize Liv Tyler right away. Also I noticed this show has Scott Glenn and the 9th Doctor. Cool.

[EyesWideOpen]

That was easily the most promising episode so far.

[Henry Gale]

That was easily the most promising episode so far.

Yeah, just watched the first three together and there's such a significant jump in quality and intrigue with this third Christopher Eccleston-centric episode than the opening two in my mind.

I almost wish this is the structural direction the series follows from here. Very LOST-y in terms of more or less just following one character for an hour after you're introduced to everyone out of the gate. Simply following such a concise and layered arc with Eccleston was so much more compelling to watch gestate and develop compared to the rushing between everyone else a few minutes at a time in the Pilot and second episode.

Plus, Eccleston is the perfect person to carry an episode in this universe, both because of his character being written the way it is, -- so at odds with everyone else in different ways -- but also simply due to his strengths as an actor (despite how awkward his accent work might be at times). You can completely grasp everything you need in those moments without dialogue or obviously scripted action from him.

[number8]

It's such a big stylistic jump that it was jarring at first, but a television show is probably better served with this tone than the jagged Peter Berg style repeated hour after hour (even FNL broke off from it eventually to a more fluid style). And yes, it really played like a Lost episode, and I mean that in the best way possible, of course. Eccleston is such a compelling guy to watch throughout.

[Lucky]

The most recent episode was a clear peak so far, yes.

I also want to commend the show's original score and its Raphaelesque opening credits sequence.

[number8]

(hence the competing cults; hell, they'll probably add another at some point).

Haha, I was right.

[EyesWideOpen]

That was another pretty good episode. Loved the part with the picture frames.

[Thirdmango]

alright, you all make this sound more promising. The first episode was interesting but I almost felt like it wouldn't have the ability to go anywhere.

[number8]

That opening scene was hard to watch. Obviously the point, but man.

I have absolutely no idea where this show is going, and I kinda love that.

[Lucky]

That opening scene was hard to watch. Obviously the point, but man.

I have absolutely no idea where this show is going, and I kinda love that.

Yeesh, no kidding. Trying not to sound too sadistic, but it oddly comforts me knowing I can still be shocked by fictional violence.

[number8]

I also want to know the story behind ATFEC. One of those letters is not like the others. What happened to the FBI?

[EyesWideOpen]

That opening scene was hard to watch. Obviously the point, but man.

I have absolutely no idea where this show is going, and I kinda love that.

Same here. My wife actually is dropping out after this episode because she doesn't see it going anywhere but I'm digging it.

[number8]

Holy fuck what an episode.

[EyesWideOpen]

That was one of the best episodes of television I've seen all year.

[Gittes]

I haven't watched last night's episode ("Solace for Tired Feet") yet, but I just wanted to chime in and note that Carrie Coons is a fascinating actress. She has a very peculiar but captivating screen presence. She's also easily the most interesting performer on the show.

As for the show more generally, which I only started watching recently, I expected something far worse given what I had been reading about people giving up after a few episodes and/or disliking it save for two episodes. Although, I'm not a big fan of the storyline involving Christine and Tom Garvey, as those characters are kind of grating and their performances aren't helping.

[number8]

Christine and Tom's story finally got interesting in the recent episode.

[Gittes]

Yeah, I agree. There was definitely a noticeable improvement. Part of the reason I dislike their storyline is because their behaviour is so profoundly stupid. That's surely deliberate, though. They're clearly establishing a dramatic contrast between unthinking devotion and the disillusionment that can follow. We got a very dramatic and devastating version of this when Tom visited the other couple. Tom also earned a little bit of good will when he smashed that phone, which hopefully means we will no longer see him demonstrating any reluctant obeisance (Christine, however, is obviously another story, and I'm actually not certain about how she'll react to the revelations of this latest episode).

Also, the episode ended with a dangling cause that was highly redolent of Lost (the same could be said for a number of other details throughout the series -- this show is clearly different, but there are, naturally, a few similarities):


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5563/14899584071_111f12ac69_o.jpg

[number8]

Yeah, people are tracking down that issue to comb through and they're already making up theories based on the articles perceived as clues. This show is most definitely LOST all over again.

[Gittes]

It's been renewed for a second season.

Also, Michelle MacLaren directed the next episode (the title is "Cairo," which, it was pointed out to me, is also referenced as part of a headline on that National Geographic cover).

[Gittes]

I hear the Shadowy Horses, their long manes a-shake,
Their hoofs heavy with tumult, their eyes glimmering white;
The North unfolds above them clinging, creeping night,
The East her hidden joy before the morning break.
The West weeps in pale dew and sighs passing away,
The South is pouring down roses of crimson fire:
O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay:
Beloved, let your eyes half close, and your heart beat
Over my heart, and your hair fall over my breast.
Drowning love's lonely hour in deep twilight of rest.
And hiding their tossing manes and their tumultuous feet.

Ann Dowd was very good throughout the season. I had assumed that Lindelof et al would want to hold on to that kind of talent for a little longer, actually. The prospect of some kind of hierarchical shake-up at the GR has been obvious for a while, though. I figured that Patti's exit was inevitable, partly because it will enable some important developments with Laurie and Meg.

[Russ]

I have to admit, I abandoned this series after 2 or 3 episodes, but have recently come back into the fold. It's gone from, "You're going to make me hate you, just like Lost" to must-see TV, and I'm actually looking forward to 10 pm Sunday nights again. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the last few episodes have been freaking fantastic.

I hope this show doesn't squander it's potential.

[Lazlo]

Nope, this show sucks. I'll ditto everything Andy Greenwald says in his article today.

http://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/the-leftovers-hbo-episode-8-recap/

[EyesWideOpen]

I disagree. This show especially these last 4 episodes have been one of my favorite shows on television.

[Lazlo]

I disagree. This show especially these last 4 episodes have been one of my favorite shows on television.

Ugh, why? It's so relentlessly grim and annoyingly obtuse. The only remotely good episode was Nora's trip to New York and even that had the beyond ridiculous scene of her hiring a sex worker to shoot her in the chest.

No one in this world has moved on in three years. I know people who have suffered the unexpected loss of children and other family that are some of the brightest, sweetest, happiest people I know. The show is about a very narrow, unhealthy version of grief and has made no effort to break out of it.

It's like Lindelof and Perrotta heard of the concept of grief and failed to consider that large groups of people would feature a wide variety of responses to tragedy.

[EyesWideOpen]

Someone dying is not comparable to people vanishing in thin air. So saying that you know how people would respond when that happens is ridiculous.

[Gittes]

Ugh, why? It's so relentlessly grim and annoyingly obtuse. The only remotely good episode was Nora's trip to New York and even that had the beyond ridiculous scene of her hiring a sex worker to shoot her in the chest.

No one in this world has moved on in three years. I know people who have suffered the unexpected loss of children and other family that are some of the brightest, sweetest, happiest people I know. The show is about a very narrow, unhealthy version of grief and has made no effort to break out of it.

It's like Lindelof and Perrotta heard of the concept of grief and failed to consider that large groups of people would feature a wide variety of responses to tragedy.

There's no real world correlate for the kind of grief being addressed in this show, though. Of course, I realize that people draw connections between heightened representations and their own lives all the time, and that's obviously sensible. My point is that The Leftovers is not solely about loss, but also about a profound epistemological crisis.

[Lazlo]

There's no real world correlate for the kind of grief being addressed in this show, though. Of course, I realize that people draw connections between heightened representations and their own lives all the time, and that's obviously sensible. My point is that The Leftovers is not solely about loss, but also about a profound epistemological crisis.

If there's no real world correlate, how are we supposed to relate to what's going on? Grief is still grief, as much as they may want to ratchet it up. Three years is a long time and yet no character has moved on and no character has benefitted in any way from the departure. For example, no one gets a windfall inheritance from their departed parent, no character is relieved of an abusive relationship due to a departed partner. Everyone's grief is the same and therefore no one's grief is interesting.

Another source of frustration is the characters knowing more than the audience and only in drips and drabs are we let in on anything. There's no one who serves as our way in to the world. Everyone is just an insufferable grump.

[Lazlo]

Someone dying is not comparable to people vanishing in thin air. So saying that you know how people would respond when that happens is ridiculous.

Knowing why doesn't make it any easier to lose a son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, friend. Unexpected loss might as well be vanishing into thin air.

[Gittes]

If there's no real world correlate, how are we supposed to relate to what's going on?

Well, it's a show about characters negotiating between a recognizably human past and an unfathomably strange present. Also, the notion of taking a fantastical conceit and making it compelling and credible isn't novel.

I liked Greenwald's article, even though our perspectives on the show do not really align. The show is operating on a decidedly heightened stage, which is motivated by the conceit. I guess this grants them a wide berth in terms of the kind of drama that can be mined, and this does indeed result in some heavy-handed aspects and misfires (I agree with Greenwald that the scene with Nora and the prostitute was probably a bad creative choice, but more charitably, it's an awkward moment buoyed by the spectacle of character and performance). However, this also grants the show an interesting quality, where, like the character of Dean, a sense of nascent definition and vagueness emerges as a kind of virtue. The show itself feels kind of mad, eerie, and arcane (i.e., on the last page, its lack of clear direction was noted as something positive). The resulting sense of emphatic possibility lends the proceedings an unnerving and peculiar energy. I realize these must sound like dubious compliments. In fact, I often disliked Lost for possessing those same qualities. It's coming across as less obnoxious here, though. We'll see how I feel later on.

Also, the grandiloquence of certain characters (i.e., Patti) or their erratic tendencies (i.e., Kevin) are symptomatic of the internal and external disorder that is a key focus of The Leftovers. The world has been made unknowable, and selfhood seems to be undergoing a similar kind of evacuation (of any claim to coherence, intelligibility, control, etc.). Kevin's precarious mental state is a consequence of the Departure, but it's also a recapitulation of its effects (inexplicable absence), writ small and personal. I'm not entirely convinced that the more ostentatious narrative events necessarily means that the writers aren't offering us much in the way of credible or compelling human behaviour. Like the best of Lost, part of the pleasure of this show involves those moments where the pathos of character colludes with narrative intrigue or strangeness (i.e., an uncomprehending Kevin brought to tears as he comes to grips with his increasingly tenuous mental state, Nora and Matt's exchange in the third episode, Wayne and Nora, etc.).


Three years is a long time and yet no character has moved on and no character has benefitted in any way from the departure. For example, no one gets a windfall inheritance from their departed parent, no character is relieved of an abusive relationship due to a departed partner. Everyone's grief is the same and therefore no one's grief is interesting.


I do see your point. The lack of a broader range of reactions is probably due to the focus on the threat and allure of hysteria, violence, self-annhiliation, etc. They're focusing on characters who are especially sensitive to the ramifications of the Sudden Departure because this complements their elected thematic approach. It's still fairly early, though. I don't think that everyone's grief on the show is identical, but I do think that additional perspectives would be a welcome addition.

[Gittes]

Knowing why doesn't make it any easier to lose a son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, friend. Unexpected loss might as well be vanishing into thin air.

Again, you seem to be eliding the way in which this show is about more than the general idea of unexpected loss. It obviously invites such comparisons and there's plenty of room here for broader considerations about the themes. In terms of the specificity of the text, however, it's dealing with a very particular epistemological crisis. The world no longer seems to yield to human understanding and control. The ensuing horror wouldn't be quite the same if the catalyst was familiar.

[EyesWideOpen]

Knowing why doesn't make it any easier to lose a son, daughter, brother, sister, mother, father, friend. Unexpected loss might as well be vanishing into thin air.

Something that happens thousands of times a day since the beginning of man happening to you is a lot different than something that has never happened before and is completely unexplainable.

[Lazlo]

I suppose y'all are right, it's about more than just the average death. Nevertheless I find the show to be unpleasant to watch. *shrug* Enjoy your weekly dose of despair.

[EyesWideOpen]

I suppose y'all are right, it's about more than just the average death. Nevertheless I find the show to be unpleasant to watch. *shrug* Enjoy your weekly dose of despair.

Understandable. I just found your original post dismissive where we had said we liked the show and you said "no it sucks". The show is obviously about depression but I don't find it unpleasant to watch I actually find it very entertaining and enjoy seeing where the show is going to go. But obviously it's not for everyone.

[number8]

Michelle MacLaren, man. That was an incredible episode. Might be my favorite of the season.

I can watch this show for days.

[quido8_5]

Thought this last episode was both fantastic and vital to the story's structure. At first I was a little wary of the conceit, but as the episode progressed I fell in love with the way they were able to manipulate what we did and didn't already know. Great stuff. I couldn't find the trailer anywhere for the last episode and am jonsing pretty bad. Anyone have a link?

[number8]

That finale was intense. I absolutely love this show.

[Russ]

Just go ahead and give Mimi Leder the Best Director Emmy for that episode.

And it needs to be said: best use of a dream sequence since Twin Peaks.

I'm with 8; I love this show.

[quido8_5]

Just go ahead and give Mimi Leder the Best Director Emmy for that episode.

And it needs to be said: best use of a dream sequence since Twin Peaks.

I'm with 8; I love this show.

Couldn't agree more. Just loving pretty much every thing about this show.

[EyesWideOpen]

We might be the only four people on this planet that love this show.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Has this been renewed? If so, I'll give it another shot based on the praise for the second half of the season in this thread. If not, I'm not going to bother.

[quido8_5]

We might be the only four people on this planet that love this show.

I'm okay with that.

[number8]

Has this been renewed? If so, I'll give it another shot based on the praise for the second half of the season in this thread. If not, I'm not going to bother.

Yes, they announced it last month.

[Peng]

Can the first season stand on its own?

[quido8_5]

Can the first season stand on its own?

Good question. I'd say so, although it's clear that they definitely are trying to invest the viewer in subsequent seasons. Having said that, my wife thought this was the only season and was a little disappointed that it was going to continue.

[Peng]

Oh that's good. Thank you. I've been ambivalent about trying the show (I loved Lost, but still remembered my "damn, this is going to be so long-term" reaction at the end of season 1), but a (kinda) stand-alone 10-episode season sounds enticing. I'll jump in now.

[number8]

FYI, the book the show is based on is a standalone novel, and they end the same way for the characters, which is why there's a sense of closure there in the season finale.

But the show went on a huge tangent in the middle and added a bunch of stuff that's clearly meant to be able to be explored by subsequent seasons.

[Barty]

This was fantastic, for the most part. Some episodes weren't as good as others, but oh boy, when this show is good, it's really good. The highlights being the two character focused episodes, and the penultimate episode. So many great moments, and the scoring and music of the series is some of the best I've ever heard.

Also, does a great job of making everything feel believable and real.