Orange Is The New Black (Season2)

[Russ]

Guest starring Laura Prepon. At least that mystery's been solved.

[Mara]

I powered through this pretty fast. Really great-- darker and more violent than last year, and less funny (although certain scenes and lines were still hysterical.)

[Gizmo]

2 episodes in and I'm not digging it as much as the first two episodes of last season, though these two seem to be mostly introduction to this year's story lines and characters. I'm hoping things pick up once things come together again.

[Mara]

If this was a conventional show I would have HATED episode one. Come back after a year and stick us with one of the most boring characters for an hour? But because I could go straight to the next episode, it was a cool, disorienting way to bring us back in to the world, and remind us exactly how little control convicts have over their own lives.

Plus we got this:

"He's a hit man?"
"Yes."
"Oh thank God, I thought he was a rapist."

[Mara]

My main complaint about the season is that some of the flashbacks really didn't add anything to what we already knew about the characters, or else were boring. Not all, but some.

A few were great, though. (Lorna! I'd been waiting ages for Lorna backstory, and it did not disappoint.)

[amberlita]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that every woman in there but the transgender inmate was unaware you have a separate "pee hole" from your vagina.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm taking it slow. I've only watched through the first two episodes. My wife wants to burn through the whole thing in like two days but I don't enjoy shows watching them that way.

[number8]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that every woman in there but the transgender inmate was unaware you have a separate "pee hole" from your vagina.

I think you underestimate just how bad sex ed in America is. Did you see that YouTube video that went viral where they got random middle-aged women from Craigslist to look at their vaginas for the first time and talk about the various reasons why they never learned about their bodies?

[number8]

I powered through this pretty fast. Really great-- darker and more violent than last year, and less funny (although certain scenes and lines were still hysterical.)

I think it's still as funny, but the humor is certainly much darker. I was wondering if this was in response to the complaints of the first season that no one's being hostile to each other in prison. All of a sudden, there's this emphasis on inmates trying to take each other out.

I'm not sure if it's a good move, to be honest. It certainly makes the show more engaging, and I finished this season way faster than season 1, but it feels like it lost something unique about the show. Turf war? Heroin ring? Shankings and beat downs? There's the danger of this turning into any other prison show. I kinda liked it when they're all just chasing around a chicken.

[Mara]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that every woman in there but the transgender inmate was unaware you have a separate "pee hole" from your vagina.

I think they went heavy on it to emphasize how culturally stressed it is for women to be ignorant about their own bodies, but they went a little far with it. (Once again, THANKS MOM for the copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves when I was 11. You are the best mom.)

However, Taystee's adorable reading of "Awww.... it's cute" made up for how silly that plot was.

[Spinal]

I think you underestimate just how bad sex ed in America is. Did you see that YouTube video that went viral where they got random middle-aged women from Craigslist to look at their vaginas for the first time and talk about the various reasons why they never learned about their bodies?

For me, it's not that the show address these topics, but rather the manner in which the show addresses these topics. I find this season that I am more frequently aware of the broad, cartoonish characterizations (Uzo Aduba being the worst offender) and the blunt social messages writ large. There's a sanctimonious tone that underlies most of the show that I don't really think is necessary. It's like listening to the activist friend who you agree with, but who still manages to get under your skin because they seem so sure that they know what's best for you.

[Mara]

I'm not sure if it's a good move, to be honest. It certainly makes the show more engaging, and I finished this season way faster than season 1, but it feels like it lost something unique about the show. Turf war? Heroin ring? Shankings and beat downs? There's the danger of this turning into any other prison show. I kinda liked it when they're all just chasing around a chicken.

I found it interesting in a couple of different ways.

First of all, in the first season it seemed like almost nobody in the prison was a violent offender, except Claudette (who was provoked) and Pennsatucky (who was bonkers, and got off with an easy sentence due to her perceived ideology.) This both did and did not make sense. This is a minimum security federal prison, and you're going to see a lot of drug-related crime, and theft, but violence should still be there somewhere. I actually really liked the introduction of the aggressive old ladies who were transferred from supermax for good behavior.

Secondly, I like that the turn towards violence was because of one smart, violent, charismatic person. One thing we saw over and over again in the first season is that a prison is a delicate ecosystem, and one prisoner (or guard) can upset that balance and power dynamic. Lorna has a line late in the season about how it wasn't like prison was a country club before, but at least there weren't factions actively trying to kill each other. One person changed that.

Lastly, I love ridiculous Soso's comment about how she didn't expect prison to be so mean, but more about women supporting each other and coming together in sisterhood. Because it is so ridiculously naive, but in the world of the show, at least, it's also sort of true. No woman on the show is so callous that she isn't looking for some sort of emotional validation, or love, or friendship, from someone. Although sisterhood is kind of rare-- it's more common to have mother/daughter relationships, where one person takes care of others. This dynamic is constantly played out both literally and figuratively over the course of the show. That tie is seen as deeply emotionally important.

A great example of Soso's silly optimism coming true, spoilered because it's late in the show:

I laughed out loud when she suggested a sing-along during the blackout, along with her enthusiastic rendition of "Bitch," but I laughed even harder later on when they cut back and she had actually gotten everyone singing. Oh Soso, bless your crazy heart.

[Mara]

It's like listening to the activist friend who you agree with, but who still manages to get under your skin because they seem so sure that they know what's best for you.

Ha ha... the show IS Piper!

[number8]

Ha ha... the show IS Piper!

I'm pretty sure they introduced Brook just to make Piper more calm by comparison. Another reason why I think they're deliberately referencing criticisms from the first season. They do address the idea that their situation suddenly got a lot more violent as you said in your post, but in the end the writers did decide to introduce Vee precisely to shift the show's stakes.

[ledfloyd]

I'm six episodes in. Digging it.

[Skitch]

I'm taking it slow. I've only watched through the first two episodes. My wife wants to burn through the whole thing in like two days but I don't enjoy shows watching them that way.

Your wife and mine! I'm good with one episode a day.

I enjoyed the first episode of season two. Waiting to see where it goes.

[Skitch]

Also, was I the only one in total disbelief of a mixed gender general prison population? Apparently it does exist, but that was news to me.

[DavidSeven]

If this was a conventional show I would have HATED episode one. Come back after a year and stick us with one of the most boring characters for an hour?

I've only watched the first episode, and I agree with this part right now. This was extremely frustrating. I think the character is fine, but this episode kept the viewer in the dark for far too long. Was the first 20 minutes of this season seriously a super long van ride followed by a super long plane ride with almost no other comprehensible story?

Flashbacks were rote and forgettable. I think this episode would've been panned pretty hard if released on a conventional schedule.

[Spinal]

Finished the series. That ending ... oh, brother. Doesn't it undermine your "everybody's got a story to tell" ethos to end on a moment that is so utterly glib in regards to good and evil?

[ledfloyd]

Finished the series. That ending ... oh, brother. Doesn't it undermine your "everybody's got a story to tell" ethos to end on a moment that is so utterly glib about in regards to good and evil?

This.

Overall I really enjoyed the season, but that final scene felt completely out of touch with everything else.

[Irish]

Finished the series. That ending ... oh, brother. Doesn't it undermine your "everybody's got a story to tell" ethos to end on a moment that is so utterly glib about in regards to good and evil?

How so?

I took it like this: The flashback sequences in the first season were meant to generate sympathy. The US is an insanely punitive country when it comes to criminal justice. We care more about retribution than redemption. That's almost always reflected in our entertainment too. The only major exception that comes to mind is The Wire, but I think that show had different goals.

If they presented a bunch of guilty characters without explanation, it would be much tougher for the audience to connect with them. (You can get around that with male characters by making them macho badasses, but it doesn't work with women, especially minority women). (This is also why I was surprised they continued with the flashbacks well into season two. Not only had the novelty value worn off the mechanic, it also seemed unnecessary from a character standpoint).

Vee was a sociopath from the start. Those kind of people don't survive in a vacuum; they need to feed off others constantly. There is no better end for her than to die on the run, alone, at the side of the road like an animal. If she had survived and escaped, the audience would have hated it. We need that sense of retribution, too, and a bit of closure at the end of the story. (The biggest weakness in Vee's story was that the show bent over backwards to make her unsympathetic. I also had a hard time believing characters like Tasty and Red would ever trust her again after she so severely fucked them over in the past.)

I'm not sure how high concepts like "good and evil" come into play. One of the show's strongest themes is that these women became what they became by a combination of bad choices and systemic failure, not because of abstract morality.

The way Tasty's backstory unfolds, it's very easy to see that, had she been born white and grown up in the suburbs, she'd be a college graduate now sitting on a cushy white collar job. The complement and counter is to her Piper, who had every advantage in the world and threw it all away because of specific personal failings. (And along that spectrum, characters like Alex, the Sister, and Red fit in very nicely).

[EyesWideOpen]

Great addition:

Mary Steenburgen Joins ‘Orange Is the New Black’ Season 3 (http://www.imdb.com/news/ni57363179/?ref_=hm_nw_tp_t3)

[DavidSeven]

I didn't love this season.

Vee was a boring, one-note character and dominated way too much of the narrative real estate. Soso was a paper-thin caricature and a mere afterthought after her first few appearances. The flashbacks for fringe characters were largely forgettable and added little to the overall story. Usually, I couldn't wait for them to end. The racial turf war stuff felt pretty rote to me, and worst of all, the need to fill out factions led them to waste Taystee and Watson for most of the season. I guess I understand the desire to marginalize Piper and Pennsatucky... actually, I don't. That doesn't make sense to me. The ending was indeed awful -- not only for its glibness, but also because it didn't connect up with anything besides throwaway moment earlier in the season. It was a stop short of a deus ex machina and provided little emotional payoff for this season long arc.

The biggest positive of the season was probably Morello. Compelling and well-performed character. Her flashback was one of the only ones that felt like it added something. She almost makes the season worthwhile by herself.

Overall, this mostly felt like a regression back toward the Weeds' standard of lacking quality ideas and mishandling principal characters. Lingering goodwill from Season 1 will keep me pressing forward, but this season definitely left a bad taste in my mouth. Big disappointment.

[Spinal]

The biggest positive of the season was probably Morello. Compelling and well-performed character. Her flashback was one of the only ones that felt like it added something. She almost makes the season worthwhile by herself.

Yes to this. I always thought Yael Stone was the most compelling performer in the show, and this season she was backed up with a heartbreaking storyline.

[Irish]

The ending was indeed awful -- not only for its glibness, but also because it didn't connect up with anything besides throwaway moment earlier in the season. It was a stop short of a deus ex machina and provided little emotional payoff for this season long arc.

Two of the biggest themes of the season centered around controlling one's own body and controlling one's own future (two things which probably resonate on a deeper level for many women than most guys). There's multiple storylines about each, as well as a number individual cross references. Rosa and Vee are written as almost personifications of those themes, so it at least makes some sense that the come into violent contact at the series conclusion. The humor was glib, but the moment was not.

I agree that Morello was one of the stronger characters, and her backstory was the most rewarding. Her story was the biggest around another theme, about narcissism and impulse control.

I almost think they did right by minimizing Piper to the degree they did because she's really one of the least interesting aspects to the show.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Through episode five, enjoying the season so far. Vee is an interesting new addition. Skimmed the posts to avoid spoilers, but yeah. Yael Stone. Killer flashback. Wow.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Finished. It's weird how the stuff in the 90-minute finale didn't feel accumulative. It felt kind of flat, like the show was dotting its I's and crossing its T's when it should been barreling towards something bigger.

Vee's escape didn't really accomplish that. She's just gone, and then she's dead. I thought it was fun that she was taken out so simply and from an unlikely character, and I'm fine with the show giving her a traditional close, i.e. firmly killing her at the tail end of the season. Frankly, she was a two-dimensional charismatic villain whose single flashback did nothing except reinforce her charisma and villainy. Just as well she goes out like a villain. The worse element of that close was easily the decision to composite in Young Rosa. Fuck you show. I want to see old Rosa.

Anyway, Vee was useful as a way to upset order and create new dynamics, but I think that ultimately smothered out some of what made the show so enjoyable to me. This season has a stronger sense of momentum and unity, but at the expense of character.

MVP remains Yael Stone.

[Gizmo]

Yeah, I found this season kind of flat. The overarching storylines each resolved too simply. I'm not sure I'm anticipating next season, as nothing was really left open. I actually enjoy the show more when the women are just hanging out doing mundane activities than when there was forced conflict. Really liked Morelli and Rosa's story arch this season and the few moments with Nikki were solid as well.

[Mara]

I love any scene with Nikki, really. I can't believe such a central character hasn't had flashbacks.

[Lucky]

I love any scene with Nikki, really. I can't believe such a central character hasn't had flashbacks.

Are we talking Natasha Lyonne's character? Because she definitely had an ep during S1. I remember hospital scenes with her mother.

[Mara]

Are we talking Natasha Lyonne's character? Because she definitely had an ep during S1. I remember hospital scenes with her mother.

I had forgotten this completely. Apparently it was just two scenes, which is probably why it didn't make much of an impression.

[Skitch]

Finished. Other than a few odd missteps here and there, I fully enjoyed this season. The season ender was fun. I was really hoping

the cancer lady would get good news. That bummed me out. I hope she gets away.

[Sycophant]

This show is wonderful (with the second season, on the whole, a bit less focused and urgently interesting as the first), but the special effect in the last scene of the second season is so boneheadedly grotesque and awful, I wonder what the fuck they were thinking. The show seems to, for the most part, expect its audience can connect a few dots.

[Sycophant]

One of the bigger failings throughout the season is how little some of the flashbacks added to what we knew about the characters. Pretty sure there was nothing in Rosa's really boringly shot heist scenes that didn't tell us anything we didn't know from the older actress's story. Vee just doubled down on her existing characteristics, as I think Mara mentioned on the last page, and another side character or two didn't really emerge as more than cartoons even after an extra 5 minutes of their pasts. Still, a lot of them really worked and I don't want to be too harsh on the show, because it's mostly wildly successful.

One thing I was glad when it ended: Boo and Nikki's fuck contest.

[EyesWideOpen]

One of the bigger failings throughout the season is how little some of the flashbacks added to what we knew about the characters. Pretty sure there was nothing in Rosa's really boringly shot heist scenes that didn't tell us anything we didn't know from the older actress's story. Vee just doubled down on her existing characteristics, as I think Mara mentioned on the last page, and another side character or two didn't really emerge as more than cartoons even after an extra 5 minutes of their pasts. Still, a lot of them really worked and I don't want to be too harsh on the show, because it's mostly wildly successful.

One thing I was glad when it ended: Boo and Nikki's fuck contest.

Suzanne's back story was one of the highlights of the season as was Morello's.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Suzanne's back story was one of the highlights of the season as was Morello's.

Morello's was a series highlight, and yes, Suzanne's was also very good.

[EyesWideOpen]

I just finished the season today. It was still a good season but nowhere near as good as the first. Everything involving the prison workers is terrible. Pretty much everyone of them is a horrible horrible person and then they try to show you a scene where you feel sorry for them and it's like fuck off. How many fake redemption scenes are they going to show for Healy? He's the worst person in the entire show stop trying to make us feel sorry for him.

[Sycophant]

Suzanne's back story was one of the highlights of the season as was Morello's.

Agreed 100%. I thought the show really sang with both of those characters, particularly at the beginning of the season.

[Irish]

Pretty sure there was nothing in Rosa's really boringly shot heist scenes that didn't tell us anything we didn't know from the older actress's story.

Her backstory tied into the theme about impulse control. The stories around Black Cindy, Nikki, and Boo cross referenced this.

I didn't think the heist stories were terrific in and of themselves (although the "curse" thing was darkly funny), but it did provide an excellent contrast for the character.

[DavidSeven]

I was also unmoved by the show's attempts to humanize Healy. He was such an irredeemable prick by the end of season 1 that those scenes in season 2 just landed with a thud for me. I didn't, however, mind what they did with Caputo. I just wish his reversion back to power-hungry bureaucrat at the end of the season was handled with a bit more nuance.

On the topic of poorly handled storylines, I thought the pregnancy stuff with Daya and Bennett was kind of irritating. It seems like they wrapped up that story thread rather neatly and then decided to squeeze more juice out of it by having the characters behave rather unrealistically. I'm not too excited to see how that one plays out.

In regard to the backstories, loose thematic tie-ins are one thing, but it's still on them to execute those scenes in a way that's engaging. And while they may have reinforced some faint concepts that floated around this season, I feel like they should feel more integral to the story being told. As alluded to several times here, the Morello backstory was really the only one that felt like it added something crucial and/or substantial to the collection of larger stories.

I think my overall thoughts on the season are coming off more negative than I am really intending. It was certainly enjoyable enough for me to plow through the whole thing in short order, and the stuff they did with Morello was no small feat. I also think they have enough character ammo to pull off another great season (akin to season 1).

[Irish]

Eh. The concepts are "faint" and the themes "loose" only if you're not paying attention, because several characters exhibit the same characteristics and engage in the same kind of behavior throughout the season.

Execution, I suppose, is in the eye of the beholder. I liked that the show was ambitious enough to try and say something, unlike the vast majority of television or Netflix's other darling, House of Cards, which very carefully says nothing.

[DavidSeven]

Maybe "faint" and "loose" aren't the best terms. Perhaps I found the ideas too banal or redundant to even warrant much reflective contemplation. Either way, the supposed thematic ties in the flashbacks failed to capture my interest, and I wasn't on the phone or vacuuming while watching, so I believe proper attention was given.

[EyesWideOpen]

The stuff with Daya and Bennett is ridiculous also. The whole season was telling us how pathetic he is because he's not owning up to him being the father. I don't understand a single scenario where the best solution for them both is him to go to prison. He wouldn't be in some minimum security prison like her. He'd be a convicted rapist and an ex correction officer which is not a good combination to be in prison.

[Irish]

I didn't think it was ridiculous. (Granted, watching those scenes, I kept thinking, "Did she really think this through?" But then, none of the characters on this show really think anything through; it's why they're in prison.)

There's an inherent power imbalance in their relationship (which she vocalizes at the end of the season). He can come to work, flirt, joke around, have sex in a broom closet, whatever. At the end of the day, he goes home. She doesn't. She's stuck there. He's a guard and she's an inmate. He has the ability to make her life hellish if he chooses. How do you trust someone with that much power over you?

When she asks him to stand up an announce that he's the father of her child, she's asking for a sign. She's asking for a commitment. The more she asks, the more it seems like he's ashamed of her. (What kind of man wouldn't acknowledge his family like that?) Real love requires risk and sacrifice, but the status quo requires nothing from Bennett. As the season wears on, he repeatedly worms out of his obligations. He gives her weak willed promises about a future that she increasingly thinks they will never have.

The contrast there is Pornstache, who's a total sleaze but he knows what he wants and he isn't afraid to pursue it wholeheartedly. The gesture he makes when they're hauling him away is unabashedly romantic. He wants to be with her no matter what and he doesn't care what it costs him. (And that's also part of the show's dark humor. Bennett is "the perfect guy" on paper but, as a man, a complete milquetoast. Pornstache is an asshole, but he stands up when it counts.)

I liked this storyline a great deal. It was like a crossroads for every theme in the season. Most of the characters struggled with their own agency, to reach out a grasp what they wanted out of their insular, limited lives. Daya was more grounded than most of them. But she loses control of her own body and she's powerless in her relationships. When she finally had the temerity to try and carve out a life for herself and her kid, all she got in response from Bennett were hapless shrugs and confused glances.

[EyesWideOpen]

Don't understand how the only way to acknowledge his family is to ruin his life. He'd be in prison for his kid's whole childhood not to mention being a convicted rapist which would make it extremely difficult to get a job when he got out. He's been loyal to her the whole time and it makes no sense for him to make some sort of announcement when they can just be together when she gets out.

[Lucky]

I liked this better than the first season. I'm disappointed they couldn't find more to do with Taryn Manning and Laverne Cox's characters. Morello and Poussey were highlights for me this time around, and Piper had some terrific moments. Taylor Schilling knows how to deliver a good line--I really enjoy watching her. The show is still hit or miss for me on a character basis, but I think it has a better batting average in making the little moments work. I almost wish they would do away with the grand melodramatic plots and let the show breathe a little more.

To be considered for Cutties next year:
Best comedy
Taylor Schilling
Yael Stone
Kate Mulgrew
Samira Wiley
"A Whole Other Hole"
"40 oz of Furlough"

[Kurosawa Fan]

Mixed on this season. Still some things I loved, especially Yael Stone and her backstory, but I couldn't help but feel the show was "HBO-ified." Ramp up the sex and nudity, ramp up the violence, all seemingly at the expense of expanded character depth. The backstories this season were, for the most part, fairly limp and ineffective, and the addition of Vee was a complete misfire for me. She was so incredibly cartoonish that, despite the lack of education and self-confidence of most of the women she brings into her confidence, it seems such a stretch that her blatantly obvious manipulations would have been effective for as long as they were, especially in regards to Red (at times), Watson, and Hayes. I'll give a pass to Suzanne, and a slightly more reserved pass to Taystee (though really, she should have been on her guard more than anyone). I think this is the reason that ending didn't sit well with most of us here. Yes it's glib, and as Spinal pointed out, it flies in the face of the show's central conceit that everyone has a story, and almost all are deserving of sympathy (or at least empathy), but Vee was such a poorly devised character, so absurdly villainous both in prison and in flashback, that the show gave her character the cartoonish exit that she frankly deserved, but it's too far off the pace from the rest of the characters that it felt awkward and out of touch. I'm still interested in continuing, more so now that Vee is gone, but the third season better improve fast or it'll be my last for sure.

[Dukefrukem]

I stopped watching half way through the first season, but my GF continues to watch this and it feels like every time I walk into the room, they are either talking about vagina's or doing something disgusting.

[ThePlashyBubbler]

Pornstache's re-entrance, throwing open the doors to the prison hallway midway through some other prisoners' random conversation, was probably my favorite moment. Still hard to believe that he's Nicky Sabotka.

[number8]

Was immediately reminded of this thread when I came across this:


Out of 1,000 women surveyed, just half of those aged 26 to 35 could locate the vagina on a medical drawing of the female reproductive system.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11063825/Half-of-young-women-cant-locate-their-vaginas.html

[Mara]

Was immediately reminded of this thread when I came across this:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/11063825/Half-of-young-women-cant-locate-their-vaginas.html

For a long time I had a big pet peeve about people identifying the labia as the vagina, but it's become so ubiquitous that I've had to resign myself. Apparently everything from your navel to your knees is vagina. Just vagina everywhere.

[EyesWideOpen]

Vagina Everywhere would be a cool name for an all girl rock group.

[Russ]

MatchCut: Never change.