American Gangster

[Watashi]

It isn't good at all. And this is coming from a big Ridley Scott fan who has enjoyed all his films so far this century.

It's really silly, sluggish, visually dull, and most of all, boring.

Scott takes these two dueling men and tries to connect them via opposites. Richie (Crowe) is humiliated by his fellow officers for turning in a million dollars in unmarked cash, which makes him the honest do-gooder, but is a shit parent who cheats on his wife and son. While Frank (Washington) loves his mother and brothers very much, but is one of the most lethal dope dealers in America. When they finally have their showdown, it's Ridley's own version of The Odd Couple. Uh oh, spaghettios!

This is simply Scott trying oh so hard to mimic Coppola and De Palma that he only digs at the surface level and we really don't know who these two men really are.

[Mysterious Dude]

This has been getting some pretty bad reviews. I thought about seeing it this weekend. It looks good, but Scott's movies always seem to look good in trailers. What a disappointing director.

[Kurosawa Fan]

No matter how I tried I couldn't get excited for this film. With the amount of bad press it's getting, I'll be waiting for the DVD at the very least.

[Boner M]

It has an 81% on RT and a 76 on metacritic, which doesn't really constitute bad press.

Still, Wats' reaction seems close to what the trailer promised, and I haven't liked a Scott film since Blade Runner. He's pretty vanilla.

[number8]

It isn't bad, but Wats is right that the characterizations are fairly shallow. I didn't care for Roberts at all, and Lucas was only interesting because it's Denzel swaggering a lot. I don't think it's boring, though. For a 2.5 hours it's actually pretty breezy. I do wish there were more of that excellent shootout at the end, but alas, it ain't an action film.

I'd be happy to see Scott stop trying to make something meaningful and do a Bay-ish movie.

[Ezee E]

I'd be happy to see Scott stop trying to make something meaningful and do a Bay-ish movie.

That'd actually be glorious. Back to Black Hawk Down style action.

Anyways, the characters are pretty dull, and if it weren't for two of America's best actors playing them, it would be completely uninteresting. Luckily, Crowe and Washington seem to always be watchable.

Ridley Scott does continue his great use of handling the camera. I haven't seen such good detail for a long, long time. Filmed as if it was a 70's movies, it had the look of one without overdoing it. The costumes and hair, etc. It all worked.

The best scenes in the movie all had to do with violence buildup. Hmm...

Part mafia/part police procedural. It may have been too much to handle for 2 1/2 hours I think.

[MadMan]

The closest Scott has gotten to doing a Bay-ish type film was Black Rain(1989), which is a flick I enjoy despite it being one of his weaker films.

I still want to see American Gangster, although perhaps I'll go in with more tempered expectations. If I get out to the theater at all this month, something I don't seem to do anymore.

[Silencio]

I think Ridley Scott is so concerned with simultaneously capturing a certain feel for the era he's setting his film in, and for the genre he's borrowing from and homaging too, that the film never really comes together or flows as whole, but instead, feels like a series of vignettes whose sole purpose is to cover the most crucial plot points. Indeed, it's why his characters (especially Denzel's Frank Lucas) feel more like cardboard cut-outs than living, breathing humans. Scott uses several opportunities to just focus the camera in on Washington's face and let the actor dramatically profuse some high-bravado gangster wise-talk (the whole "This is my home, my country" speech, among others). Beyond what the character of Frank Lucas stands for, Scott is not interested in further exploring. It's like the script was being filmed, but all the substance was left in the editing room.

What moral ambiguity between the two leading characters is established is just thrown away through fortune-cookie philosophy and easy conclusiveness. Scott initially downplays their similarities and heightens their differences, only two do a little switcharoo in the film's climax where we figure out that the two aren't so different after all. As for the rest of the film, it's pedestrian, conventional, derivative, and rather unengaging. Cinematography aiming for a sense of realism only goes a long way, and here, the dark lighting and grittiness just make things hard to see and unpleasant to look at. Naturally, both Denzel and Crowe are good, but only to the extent of their character's developments (or lack thereof). It isn't the absolute worst way to pass 150 minutes, but overall, American Gangster just isn't wholly satisfying.

[Briare]

I liked it well enough, the plot was fairly shallow but I enjoyed watching Crowe and Denzel well enough. Sluggish in the middle though, but very watchable anyway.

[Henry Gale]

Um... wow, this beat Bee Movie regardless of everyone's expectations.

1. American Gangster - $15,821,000 (3,054 theatres, $5,180 avg.)

2. Bee Movie - $10,179,000 (3,928 theatres, $2,591 avg.)

[Qrazy]

It has an 81% on RT and a 76 on metacritic, which doesn't really constitute bad press.


Indeed.

[number8]

Awesome. Showtime is doing a new show with Forest Whitaker about Nicky Barnes.

[DSNT]

1. American Gangster $46,344,000
2. Bee Movie $39,100,000

Impressive for this type of movie.

[Ezee E]

1. American Gangster $46,344,000
2. Bee Movie $39,100,000

Impressive for this type of movie.
I had a feeling it would do really well because it had the attention of several demographics. Bee Movie seemed to cater towards the adults for some reason, but it still did great.

I just wish it was Seinfeld in a bee costume the entire time.

[Rowland]

"American Gangster is the finest American New Wave cop procedural since The French Connection/Prince of the City/Serpico..." - Walter Chaw

I haven't seen the movie yet, but... really, Walter? He has really been liking a lot more movies this year than he did last year. In any case, I imagine he'll have a review up soon.

[eternity]

It's decent, but there's absolutely nothing special about it.

[balmakboor]

No matter how I tried I couldn't get excited for this film. With the amount of bad press it's getting, I'll be waiting for the DVD at the very least.

I'll be waiting for the DVD at the very most.

[jenniferofthejungle]

No matter how I tried I couldn't get excited for this film. With the amount of bad press it's getting, I'll be waiting for the DVD at the very least.

My brother invited me to see this today and even though I was bored at home I could not force myself to go out and see this movie.

[Qrazy]

"American Gangster is the finest American New Wave cop procedural since The French Connection/Prince of the City/Serpico..." - Walter Chaw

I haven't seen the movie yet, but... really, Walter? He has really been liking a lot more movies this year than he did last year. In any case, I imagine he'll have a review up soon.

What's Prince of the City?

[Rowland]

What's Prince of the City?Lumet, I believe.

[balmakboor]

Lumet, I believe.

One of Lumet's very best at that. The guy has mighty high praise for American Gangster if he's favorably comparing it to those three films.

[megladon8]

It's already #115 on the IMDb top 250 list.

[Duncan]

A friend of mine said it was as good as The Godfather. I do not believe him.

[eternity]

A friend of mine said it was as good as The Godfather. I do not believe him.Not even close.

[MadMan]

A friend of mine said it was as good as The Godfather. I do not believe him.While I haven't seen American Gangster yet that statement is pure insanity.

[Sycophant]

"American Gangster is the finest American New Wave cop procedural since The French Connection/Prince of the City/Serpico..." - Walter Chaw
Wow. I'll be eagerly awaiting his review. If he can make a case, Chaw could actually convince me to go see this, something I hadn't really planned on.

[origami_mustache]

Ridley Scott is pretty overrated, and this film was vastly over hyped.

[Sxottlan]

I quite enjoyed this film. Nothing flashy (don't understand the complaint that it needed more style), but a real good procedural like Zodiac. It was engrossing and absorbing. Loved Russell Crowe's performance more than Washington's I think. Frank Lucas was pretty much a more cultivated Alonzo Harris, where as Robert's nervousness and upright attitude felt fresh.

Funny if you think both have already faced off in Virtuosity.

Not perfect though by any means. The editing was choppy between scenes, making me feel as though something was regularly missing. Richie Roberts introduction was confusing for example.

And what was up with that D.A. in that scene at the army base? Talk about chewing the scenery (and revealing a possible under-current of "golly gee whiz, look at the black man developing a mafia crime family!").


"American Gangster is the finest American New Wave cop procedural since The French Connection/Prince of the City/Serpico..." - Walter Chaw

I haven't seen the movie yet, but... really, Walter? He has really been liking a lot more movies this year than he did last year. In any case, I imagine he'll have a review up soon.

Where did the snippet come from? I've been looking forward to his review for it.

[number8]

That DA was that guy from Hostel 2. He rules.

[Doclop]

I thought it was very average. There was no character to the direction at all, which I thought was fairly surprising. I'm used to a little more flair than that from Ridley Scott (not Tony Scott flair, but give me something!). Structurally, it reminded me of Catch Me If You Can and was ultimately an often laborious experience. I liked the brief flirtation with issues of social progression, but there wasn't enough and the set-up was stretched thin to the point of irrelevance, particularly in the case of Russell Crowe's character. A few scenes worked well and Denzel Washington was only moderately irritating (an accomplishment in my book), but despite the pleasing scope of the film, I think it all fell pretty flat.

[Barty]

Well, I thought it was fantastic.

[DavidSeven]

What happened to that great silhouette shot that's in all of the previews? I believe it's of Lucas shooting someone in an empty bar. It's definitely not in the finished film, which is a shame because it's better than any shot that made it in. This one is just barely above average.

[Rowland]

What happened to that great silhouette shot that's in all of the previews? I believe it's of Lucas shooting someone in an empty bar. It's definitely not in the finished film, which is a shame because it's better than any shot that made it in. This one is just barely above average.I was actually relieved that this shot wasn't in the movie, as it looked like it was trying too hard to be cool, and I appreciate that the aesthetic Scott employed avoided such overt stylization. The last shot in the movie is the most memorable.

I may have to give this a spot on my year-end underrated list, if only because I appear to have liked it more than 90% of MC, and even I didn't think it was great or anything.

[number8]

What happened to that great silhouette shot that's in all of the previews? I believe it's of Lucas shooting someone in an empty bar. It's definitely not in the finished film, which is a shame because it's better than any shot that made it in. This one is just barely above average.

It was used as the cover of Jay-Z's new album. :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/JayZ_American_Gangster_Cover.j pg

[Sxottlan]

What happened to that great silhouette shot that's in all of the previews?

If you see it again, stick around for after the end credits. The shot appears there.

[megladon8]

I just can't bring myself to see this.

My friends keep trying to drag me there, and luckily I managed to sway them last time into seeing The Mist instead.

I think I'd feel differently if it wasn't 2 hours and 40 minutes...but for a movie I'm practically expecting to find uninteresting going into it, I really don't want to dedicate that much time to it.

[Henry Gale]

I just can't bring myself to see this.

My friends keep trying to drag me there, and luckily I managed to sway them last time into seeing The Mist instead.

I think I'd feel differently if it wasn't 2 hours and 40 minutes...but for a movie I'm practically expecting to find uninteresting going into it, I really don't want to dedicate that much time to it.

I felt the same way until the DVD screener leaked, which meant I would get to watch it with my friends without having to go all the way out to the theatres to see something I wasn't that excited for. Luckily it was actually pretty decent and ended up feeling a lot shorter than it actually was. It's nothing spectacular though, I actually prefer Scott's A Good Year to it because although that was just as by the numbers as AG, at least that film was visually inspired.

So if I were you I'd wait for video if you want to just get it out of the way on a rainy day. It isn't really an essential film though (unless for whatever reason it starts to get a lot of awards attention or something and you just want to have an opinion on it).

[megladon8]

It was used as the cover of Jay-Z's new album. :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/da/JayZ_American_Gangster_Cover.j pg


Was that just a soulless marketing tie-in, or does the album actually have anything to do with the movie?

[number8]

"Music inspired by the motion picture."

[Wryan]

Twas good.

[DavidSeven]

Was that just a soulless marketing tie-in, or does the album actually have anything to do with the movie?

Well, it has no presence in the movie. During the film, I was expecting a Jay-Z dominant soundtrack, but he's nowhere to be heard. As number8 said, I believe the tie-in is mostly Jay-Z running with the premise of the film to make a mostly unrelated album.

[Henry Gale]

Because I know all of you want this kind of detail on the matter...

The story is Jay-Z got a personal screening of the film about a month and a half before it was released. When he got back from it he was so moved my it and saw so many parallels to his own life (both in the past and currently) that he started writing and in days he began to contact all of his producer buddies like The Neptunes, Kanye West, Diddy & The Hitmen, DJ Toomp, Just Blaze to see what beats they had. He ended up recording some tracks with them that didn't make it onto the final record (like the tracks by Kanye and Timbaland) but before all of that, one of the things he said that made it so easy to come about so quickly was that Diddy (who he wasn't at first too keen on working with on it) just so happened to have tons of soul-based samples he had been wanting to use but nobody wanted at the time. It just so happened that that was exactly what Jay was looking for so Diddy and his production team ended up producing about half the album.

The lyrics aren't directly related to the movie but some of the song titles refer to themes or plot elements from the film (example being the first single off of it is called "Blue Magic" but is probably one of the least American Gangster-related tracks on it).

He ended up completing the whole thing in four weeks and releasing it the Tuesday after the movie hit theatres to rave reviews, and It actually was a surprisingly strong album too. Definately a lot better than his last effort (Kingdom Come) which was the "comeback" album he came out of retirement for.

[number8]

That reminds me. When I saw the film, the press row behind me was filled with African-American twenty somethings (who I believe were radio personalities from a local hip-hop station), and man, they HATED Russell Crowe's character. They kept voicing their hate everytime Richie Roberts got a leg up on Frank Lucas. They, of course, cheered every time Denzel capped somebody. At the end of the film, they got mad that the police couldn't just leave Lucas alone. I found it kind of amusing and related to my complaints of the film.

[Rowland]

That reminds me. When I saw the film, the press row behind me was filled with African-American twenty somethings (who I believe were radio personalities from a local hip-hop station), and man, they HATED Russell Crowe's character. They kept voicing their hate everytime Richie Roberts got a leg up on Frank Lucas. They, of course, cheered every time Denzel capped somebody. At the end of the film, they got mad that the police couldn't just leave Lucas alone. I found it kind of amusing and related to my complaints of the film.I'm reminded of a passage from Walter Chaw's review:

"The secret history of American Gangster is written in the way that Washington's Lucas is venerated by black celebrities, Joe Louis in particular. Complaints that it celebrates a sleazebag vice merchant responsible for countless destroyed lives--those of his own people, no less--ignores the fact that the hip-hop culture of bling and general misanthropy has its roots in essential offense. No question that Lucas is not only a superstar, but also the hero of American Gangster (it's named for him, after all, and we salute that flag); the better question is how much rage and inequity does it take to make criminals and sociopaths (until his most recent transgressions, OJ Simpson--am I right?) acting out against the entrenched patriarchy the heroes of an entire culture? That transforms spontaneous, mass outpourings of fury into acts of self-abnegation and abuse: why burn Watts when Beverly Hills beckons? There's no reason in my mind there shouldn't be a hagiography about Lucas, any more than there shouldn't be a hagiography about Jesse James or Martin Cahill. We are what we repress; let's give our shadows a little time on the proscenium."

I think the last shot is really telling as well.

[megladon8]

Watching the trailers and reading the last two posts makes me want to describe the film in one sentence: Scarface for black people.

Lucas isn't portrayed as a criminal, he's just an entrepreneur on the wrong side of the law.

It kind of seems like this type of movie promotes and glorifies all the racist, stereotypical elements found in gangsta rap.

[Rowland]

I'm not racist, but watching the trailers and reading the last two posts makes me want to describe the film in one sentence:

Scarface for black people.

Lucas isn't portrayed as a criminal, he's just an entrepreneur on the wrong side of the law.

It kind of seems like this type of movie promotes and glorifies all the racist, stereotypical elements found in gangsta rap.No, the movie clearly positions the "American dream" as being corrupt. You're free to make judgments before seeing it though.

[Watashi]

I'm not racist, but watching the trailers and reading the last two posts makes me want to describe the film in one sentence:

Scarface for black people.

Lucas isn't portrayed as a criminal, he's just an entrepreneur on the wrong side of the law.

It kind of seems like this type of movie promotes and glorifies all the racist, stereotypical elements found in gangsta rap.

Um, no. And saying that without seeing the film DOES make you a racist.

Frank Lucas is always portrayed as a criminal. He knew that his acts costs the lives of thousands of Americans, yet he never did anything to stop it. I didn't like the movie at all, but saying it glorifies black "gangstas" is completely missing the point.

[megladon8]

Um, no. And saying that without seeing the film DOES make you a racist.

Whatever dude. I'm not a racist, but feel free to think whatever you want about me.



Frank Lucas is always portrayed as a criminal. He knew that his acts costs the lives of thousands of Americans, yet he never did anything to stop it. I didn't like the movie at all, but saying it glorifies black "gangstas" is completely missing the point.

Well then I guess I have missed the point.

I have stated I haven't seen the movie and that this is just judging by the trailers and a couple of posts which seem to confirm that it presents this criminal as the film's hero, just like Scarface.

[DavidSeven]

The first shot(s) of the movie does more than enough to establish that Lucas wasn't just a shrewd entrepeneur on the wrong side of the law. If the audience still can't see him as a criminal after the first few seconds of this film then there is something wrong with them and not how Scott chose to portray this character. It's a very effective opening.

[Rowland]

I have stated I haven't seen the movie and that this is just judging by the trailers and a couple of posts which seem to confirm that it presents this criminal as the film's hero, just like Scarface.The movie's villain is the attitude and approach to business he embraces... and Josh Brolin. In a sense, Denzel and Crowe are both the "heroes", only the movie is more interested in what the story of the former's character has to say about being an American gangster/businessman/criminal/celebrity. Crowe is used as a counterpoint, also portrayed as a flawed human, albeit a better one.

[megladon8]

There's one guy in my class who has seen the film and I brought up this discussion with him.

He described Frank Lucas with three main words: "cool", "awesome", and "badass".

But whatever...I apologize if I was out of line in what I said. I assure everyone I have no racial prejudices. I was just misinformed about the film, and in a truely typical "meg moment", put my foot in my mouth.

[Rowland]

There's one guy in my class who has seen the film and I brought up this discussion with him.

He described Frank Lucas with three main words: "cool", "awesome", and "badass".What the movie is really about is why people like this guy from your class see Frank Lucas as being cool, awesome, and badass, the corruption behind this veneration, and how this manifested itself into the culture of gangsta misanthropy (which is itself dwindling in popularity, thankfully).

[number8]

My main problem was not with the glorification of Lucas' crime. The film can't be any more clear in portraying that what Lucas is doing is wrong, but it's just the fact that he's the default protagonist and that he cares more about his family than the "good guy" is what makes the film flawed.

From my review:


At certain points in the story, American Gangster is not so much a mob movie as it is a criticism of American wealth and the American dream of acquiring that wealth. Do you know what makes someone an American gangster, instead of just a gangster?

Capitalism, of course. Pure American business ethics.


A problem with gangster movies—and it has plagued the Corleones as well as Tony Montana—is that they tend to be idolized even though they are shamelessly bad guys. American Gangster is no different. While it’s very clear in portraying Lucas as a monster (including a montage comparing his family’s perfect Thanksgiving dinner to the destroyed families of his customers), it’s still a glorification of a black man’s success story in getting himself out of the ghetto, building an empire, providing for his family, and leading his neighborhood. There’s no denying how powerful of a temptation that can be as a role model.

Amazingly, the film addresses that directly! “I took care of Harlem, and Harlem’s gonna take care of me,” Lucas says in the film, referring to the support he has from a community eager for Lucas’ charity. Likewise, his own sweet Church-going mother turns a blind eye to his bidness, so long as she gets to live fat. That is the fraud of Frank Lucas, and that is the fraud of man. How do you tell a philanthropist helping his community from a scumbag bribing future defenders? When it comes down to it, Frank Lucas is a one-man Enron, nothing more.

The last shot, to me, says that whatever Lucas worked to build changes with culture anyway, and it expresses just how futile the American Dream is.

[Rowland]

I think my biggest problem with the movie was its representation of the police force as being entirely corrupt, lead by an entertaining but one-note Josh Brolin as the mustache-twirling uber-corrupt cop.

[megladon8]

What is with Josh Brolin's sudden break into the mainstream?

Just this year he's been in 3 fairly big movies - before now he wasn't in too much.

[Raiders]

What is with Josh Brolin's sudden break into the mainstream?

Just this year he's been in 3 fairly big movies - before now he wasn't in too much.

If Haggis' film counts, it is actually four notable films this year alone. Maybe people realized he could act?

[Rowland]

It's nice to see a real manly man like Brolin getting some big roles. I'm tired of all the pretty boys.

[megladon8]

Oh I'm definitely not complaining at all - I really like Brolin.

I just find it surprising that he suddenly has all these mainstream roles, when before he seemed to be fairly unknown in the mainstream scheme of things.

[Rowland]

In interviews, he has cited Robert Rodriguez as the principle conduit towards helping him get better roles, which is cool.

[megladon8]

In interviews, he has cited Robert Rodriguez as the principle conduit towards helping him get better roles, which is cool.


Yes, it is.

And I like what you said about his looks being more man-like. I, too, grow tired of the boyish looks of so many Hollywood stars.

On a similar note, I liked that in Gone Baby Gone, even the actors who - when dolled up - could be considered "gorgeous", were made to look very normal. Casy Affleck is so incredibly pale and skinny he looks sickly, and Michelle Monaghan looked, again, very average. None of the supporting characters were particularly wonderful looking either - many of them, in fact, were quite ugly.

I realize the draw and appeal and in many ways need for great looking Hollywood stars, but at the same time I really appreicate it when a movie comes out that doesn't use the actors' stunning physical shape to keep the audience's attention.

[Sycophant]

On a similar note, I liked that in Gone Baby Gone, even the actors who - when dolled up - could be considered "gorgeous", were made to look very normal. Casy Affleck is so incredibly pale and skinny he looks sickly, and Michelle Monaghan looked, again, very average. Overall, I agree with what you're saying, except for what you're saying about Michelle Monaghan. In the midst of all these people who aren't striving to show their best side, she was almost distractingly good looking. But that's probably just how she is in the day-to-day.

[megladon8]

Overall, I agree with what you're saying, except for what you're saying about Michelle Monaghan. In the midst of all these people who aren't striving to show their best side, she was almost distractingly good looking. But that's probably just how she is in the day-to-day.


I do find her very beautiful, but I think she definitely "toned it down" for the movie.

I think you're right - she is just a naturally good looking person, so they'd have to sort of go out of their way to make her look ugly.

[Ezee E]

Casey Affleck seems like a pretty boy to me.

[megladon8]

Casey Affleck seems like a pretty boy to me.


Yes, but like I said in my post, they made him very un-pretty boy.

He's very skinny, has incredibly pale complexion, and generally doesn't look too healthy.

[Peng]

Zaillian's screenplay is a bit too surface-y so that this feels like one big rise-and-fall trope, with one huge false story equivalency in that Crowe's half shouldn't get as much an equal split as Washington's. Both of them are great in the roles though, the latter so charismatic while still retaining a monstrous side, the former appealingly prickly in his pragmatic hard-assedness. And Scott, being the ultimate craftsman, keeps things running smooth and the propulsive momentum going so this still feels breezy enough even with its long running time. Then again, considering the subject matter at hand and potential dramatic weight, maybe "breezy" is entirely the wrong kind of thing for this film to be. 7/10

[MadMan]

I think my biggest problem with the movie was its representation of the police force as being entirely corrupt, lead by an entertaining but one-note Josh Brolin as the mustache-twirling uber-corrupt cop.

Considering past and modern day police brutality and the murder of POC by the police, this post makes me smh. And oh yeah, there was this 1970s movie called Serpico. Based on a true story.

[MadMan]

What the movie is really about is why people like this guy from your class see Frank Lucas as being cool, awesome, and badass, the corruption behind this veneration, and how this manifested itself into the culture of gangsta misanthropy (which is itself dwindling in popularity, thankfully).

This post I agree with. Lucas is not a hero, and I also agree with number8's post. However I still think this is a great, well made film. One that probably revived Scott's career.

[MadMan]

This film had a fantastic cast, btw.