Video Games...Discuss Them

[Dead & Messed Up]

I'm surprised the remake didn't sell well. I was very impressed with it at the time, despite the fact that its controls felt somewhat archaic (you are a tank). That said, I do like Resident Evil 4 more. It's more action-oriented, no doubt, but that's okay. I prefer its more intuitive control scheme, the sheer size of the adventure, and that dopey-awesome knife fight with Krauser. Has there ever been a better reason to use quick-time events? Really, the problem is that Capcom pushed further and further in that direction.

[Ezee E]

I'm surprised the remake didn't sell well. I was very impressed with it at the time, despite the fact that its controls felt somewhat archaic (you are a tank). That said, I do like Resident Evil 4 more. It's more action-oriented, no doubt, but that's okay. I prefer its more intuitive control scheme, the sheer size of the adventure, and that dopey-awesome knife fight with Krauser. Has there ever been a better reason to use quick-time events? Really, the problem is that Capcom pushed further and further in that direction.

Exactly. RE4 is the best in the series, but then they just tried making it too much of Uncharted.

The best thing about #2 is the playthroughs. I've never played another game in which the second playthrough is harder, and just as interesting as #1.

[Milky Joe]

Anyways, I eventually got C:V once it arrived on the Playstation 2. I'm not sure if I mentioned this already, but poor resource management left me ill-equipped to defeat the Tyrant during the close-quarters plane battle (this was near the end of Claire's section, I believe). This meant I had to restart the game, and I guess that prospect, as well as the possibility of making similar mistakes, discouraged me.

That's exactly what happened to me on the Dreamcast version. I honestly don't remember the game being that great though.

[EyesWideOpen]

I wanted to love The Swapper and I did for like the first 30 minutes of playing it but then the puzzles got way too difficult. I'm at a part where I can choose from like 10 different puzzles and I have no idea what to do on any of them.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, the Last of Us movie will suck:



"In two hours you can't tell the same kind of story that you can in a game like The Last of Us, which is 15 hours," Druckman told MCV (Via Flickering Myth): "I'm in the middle of it now, and it's been super difficult because there's so much that happens in The Last of Us – even just in the cinematics – that can't fit in a film, let alone all the gameplay in-between and dialogue."


There's a few other quotes where it sounds like he's struggling with it all.

[Morris Schæffer]

It's a challenge no doubt to get right, but you can tell the same story. I'm almost inclined to say "thank god he's struggling!!" I wonder how much struggling there was during the writing processes for Prince of Persia, Doom, need for speed and, oh what the heck, mario brothers?

[EvilShoe]

I wonder how much struggling there was during the writing processes for Prince of Persia, Doom, need for speed and, oh what the heck, mario brothers?
Besides struggling with alcohol addiction, you mean?

[Morris Schæffer]

Besides struggling with alcohol addiction, you mean?

Yeah, that too! :)

[Gittes]

Yeah, the Last of Us movie will suck:


I think negative prognosticating like this ought to be based on more than a writer's candid remarks concerning the challenges of mounting a screenplay. Even if Druckmann had not made those comments, it would still be clear that a film script does not allow for the elastic storytelling limits that creators enjoy in the video game industry. A certain economy will have to be achieved. Naturally, I'm sure that's a daunting challenge, but I'm not convinced that this is an especially dispiriting sign or a good reason to dismiss the movie in advance.

[Gittes]

It's a challenge no doubt to get right, but you can tell the same story.

I tracked down the source (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/the-last-of-us-movie-some-parts-will-be-quite-different-to-the-game/0136584) of the Druckmann quote and found the following, where he more specifically addresses this issue:


“It almost has this novel quality as far as how much content there is,” he explained. “And a film works really well when it's laser-focused, so the first part of it was like: well, what is this story really about? It's clearly about Joel and Ellie. What are the most important beats that we can't lose? Start with those, and cut everything else out.

“It's been really difficult to cut certain things out, but what I'm starting to get this is really focused narrative that's about these two characters. Some parts will be similar to the game and some parts will be quite different, but it's kind of interesting in helping me understand this other medium and its strengths compared to video games.”


Again, this isn't really a strong basis for persuasive judgments. Still, this latter comment suggests, at least, the formation of something more intriguing than a rote cinematic translation of the ​Last of Us' narrative highlights. Druckmann's emphasis on the strengths of the medium is vague, but it's also more appealing than talking about the film as if it ought to be a live action précis of the video game. There are so many permutations to consider in terms of the cinematography, the blend of CGI and practical effects, performances, novel thematic expressions, elaborations, wholly new ideas, etc., that I can't help but feel decidedly curious about how this will turn out.

I do hope that the finished product bears the traces of people who have indeed thoughtfully considered the strengths of the medium, and how an ostensibly familiar narrative experience can be made newly fascinating.

[Morris Schæffer]

I tracked down the source (http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/the-last-of-us-movie-some-parts-will-be-quite-different-to-the-game/0136584) of the Druckmann quote and found the following, where he more specifically addresses this issue:



Again, this isn't really a strong basis for persuasive judgments. Still, this latter comment suggests, at least, the formation of something more intriguing than a rote cinematic translation of the ​Last of Us' narrative highlights. Druckmann's emphasis on the strengths of the medium is vague, but it's also more appealing than talking about the film as if it ought to be a live action précis of the video game. There are so many permutations to consider in terms of the cinematography, the blend of CGI and practical effects, performances, novel thematic expressions, elaborations, wholly new ideas, etc., that I can't help but feel decidedly curious about how this will turn out.

I do hope that the finished product bears the traces of people who have indeed thoughtfully considered the strengths of the medium, and how an ostensibly familiar narrative experience can be made newly fascinating.

I find it encouraging that he says that some parts will be quite different from the game, which implies a possible willingess to do what's necessary, rather than expected and facile. Wouldn't it be cool if, for the uncharted game, they wrote a complete new adventure/quest rather than sticking with what they, and we, know?

[Dukefrukem]

So Firefall is pretty great. I may be hooked.

[Gittes]

Wouldn't it be cool if, for the uncharted game, they wrote a complete new adventure/quest rather than sticking with what they, and we, know?

I'm assuming you're referring to the Uncharted movie. Yeah, I suspect this is a likely possibility. It's obviously difficult to divorce the characters in The Last of Us from the game's narrative, but this is definitely not the case with the characters in Uncharted.

I'm relieved that Mark Wahlberg is no longer playing Drake. David O. Russell's interpretation might have generated an interesting movie, and I'm definitely open to the idea of departing from the video game in interesting ways, but I think a certain fidelity to Drake's characterization is necessary. I can't imagine Wahlberg matching Nolan North's charisma.

[Thirdmango]

currently in the middle of my first play through of Persona 4 with the GF. Not too much to say beyond it being awesome. That is all.

[Dukefrukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Led61nQCnI

[EyesWideOpen]

The new Tomb Raider is going to be an XBOX exclusive (http://kotaku.com/the-next-tomb-raider-is-an-xbox-exclusive-1620022328).

I'm sure it will eventually come to Playstation but that's too bad. Microsoft must have paid them a lot of money to go exclusive with the system that has sold way less copies of their game.

[D_Davis]

The new Tomb Raider is going to be an XBOX exclusive (http://kotaku.com/the-next-tomb-raider-is-an-xbox-exclusive-1620022328).

I'm sure it will eventually come to Playstation but that's too bad. Microsoft must have paid them a lot of money to go exclusive with the system that has sold way less copies of their game.

What a hilariously bad move. Squenix complained constantly about how bad the last game sold, and so they decide to develop the sequel for the console on which the previous game sold less than half as many copies? That's a bold strategy, Cotton.

Also, what a weird game for MS to pay for. You think they'd sink money into a game that sold well.

[Dukefrukem]

It will be a timed exclusive so don't worry. And who cares, Lara just murders everyone in these new games anyway.

[Gittes]

Hey EWO, I'm going to start Pikmin 3 soon, so I'll take you up on your offer from a few months ago to provide some advice for someone relatively new to the series. Anything I should know before going into this? The time limit is a slight concern, but I hope it'll be a non-issue.

[Milky Joe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GV03EnRX8fc

this game may have some potential. I dunno, we'll see.

[EyesWideOpen]

Hey EWO, I'm going to start Pikmin 3 soon, so I'll take you up on your offer from a few months ago to provide some advice for someone relatively new to the series. Anything I should know before going into this? The time limit is a slight concern, but I hope it'll be a non-issue.

Yeah, no problem. Pikmin 1 had a time limit, they got rid of it in the second one, and the third one has a modified time limit. Basically the way the time limit works in 3 is there is a day cycle. At the end of each day you have to fly back up in your spaceship and then land again in the morning and a new day starts. Where the limit comes in is that each day to operate your ship it consumes a bottle of juice. You get the juice by collecting the fruit in each level as your searching for ship parts, exploring, etc. The bigger the fruit the more bottles of juice you get. Some big fruit might give you 3 bottles of juice whereas some small ones might only give you half a bottle of fruit.

So my heads up/advice for you is that worrying about the juice/time limit only really happens during the first 5 or 6 days when you're starting out. Once you get the hang of it and start exploring more you'll be rolling in juice and should be picking up 1-4 pieces of fruit a day. By the end of the game I had over 60 or so bottles of juice left over. To help with those first 5-6 days I recommend taking advantage of the fact that at the end of a day you can choose to replay over that day (and lose all the progress you did on that day). This helps if you have a day early on where you're figuring out where everything is on a map and you don't really accomplish anything or if you lose a ton of Pikmin by screwing something up. So if you replay it over you will know exactly where to go and can take better advantage of your time.

There was one day early on (maybe day 3 or 4) where I replayed it three times or so to get everything set up right where I could accomplish the most in that day. But like I said by like day 10 you'll have a stockpile of juice and you won't have to worry about getting a perfect run.

[Gittes]

Great. Thanks! I will try to keep all of that in mind. I'll probably have to restart the day quite a few times, but we'll see. I'm very excited to finally try this out.

[EyesWideOpen]

Kojima & Guillermo Del Toro are working on a new Silent Hill game (http://kotaku.com/hideo-kojima-and-guillermo-del-toro-team-up-for-new-sil-1620434191) with Norman Reedus playing the main character.

I don't care for the Metal Gear games but I'm looking forward to Silent Hill getting a release on new consoles.

[Gittes]

Very nice:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOtiMtZxrrc&list=UUg_J wOXFtu3iEtbr4ttXm9g

[Dukefrukem]

Fuck. I'm hooked on an MMO.

[bac0n]

Fuck. I'm hooked on an MMO.

Me, too. DC Universe Online. Great fun, and the game is very well designed so that you're always getting some sort of goody for your character, be it a new power, a new skill, some cool piece of gear, some currency to buy that cool helmet you've been eying, or a bunch of new missions. And some of the 8-group missions (raids) are nuts. Had a helluva raid against Black Adam last week. Super tough, but I got a lotta cool stuff when we finally beat him.

[Dukefrukem]

Me, too. DC Universe Online. Great fun, and the game is very well designed so that you're always getting some sort of goody for your character, be it a new power, a new skill, some cool piece of gear, some currency to buy that cool helmet you've been eying, or a bunch of new missions. And some of the 8-group missions (raids) are nuts. Had a helluva raid against Black Adam last week. Super tough, but I got a lotta cool stuff when we finally beat him.

I don't know what to do- this is why I don't play MMOs. They just go forever. This hasn't happened to me since WoW back in 06.

[Dukefrukem]

Also


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE0JDQJFbTw

[Dukefrukem]

It will be a timed exclusive so don't worry. And who cares, Lara just murders everyone in these new games anyway.

For some really odd reason, Microsoft confirmed the "exclusive" deal they have with Rise of the Tomb Raider, "has a duration".

WTF?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Blech. I hate using actors as the characters in games. I really hope this trend doesn't continue.

[Dukefrukem]

Blech. I hate using actors as the characters in games. I really hope this trend doesn't continue.

Why?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Why?

It's unimaginative and distracting.

[EyesWideOpen]

That's a weird thing to hate.

[Dukefrukem]

It's unimaginative and distracting.

I don't see how this could be. Again, could you elaborate a little more?

[bac0n]

I personally can understand how it would detract from the immersion of a game when, say, you were wondering through a forest in the wild west, and suddenly, oh hey, it's Norman Reedus talking to you. So, I side with KF. If I had my druthers, it would be people I didn't recognize populating the electronic worlds I'm playing in.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I don't see how this could be. Again, could you elaborate a little more?

Part of it is what bac0n talked about. Another is the fact that the creation process is near-limitless. It's like a painter with an empty canvas deciding to paint the figures in her work to look like celebrities. Or, a more apt comparison, it's like Woody being made to look exactly like Tom Hanks, or the ship's captain on WALL*E looking exactly like Jeff Garlin. You could make those figures look however you want as an artist. The possibilities are endless. So when they show a complete disregard for that process and instead make their characters look like the actors who are voicing them, it feels cheap. To put that much imagination into a game and then fall short with your characters, it's a disappointment.

[Watashi]

I thought LA Noire handled it fine.

[Dukefrukem]

Part of it is what bac0n talked about. Another is the fact that the creation process is near-limitless. It's like a painter with an empty canvas deciding to paint the figures in her work to look like celebrities. Or, a more apt comparison, it's like Woody being made to look exactly like Tom Hanks, or the ship's captain on WALL*E looking exactly like Jeff Garlin. You could make those figures look however you want as an artist. The possibilities are endless. So when they show a complete disregard for that process and instead make their characters look like the actors who are voicing them, it feels cheap. To put that much imagination into a game and then fall short with your characters, it's a disappointment.

Yes but with the current trend of mo-cap and the inherent need to get GOOD actors who can play those roles, I see this as a great thing. I'd rather the creative process go into something that matters more than having a completely made up person play a role.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yes but with the current trend of mo-cap and the inherent need to get GOOD actors who can play those roles, I see this as a great thing. I'd rather the creative process go into something that matters more than having a completely made up person play a role.


You can still mo-cap and capture their voice work while creating a new face or body. Look at the work Sirkis has done.

[Dukefrukem]

You can still mo-cap and capture their voice work while creating a new face or body. Look at the work Sirkis has done.

That's true. But I remember that being the excuse on why Michael Ironside didn't voice the new Splinter Cell, which bugged the shit out of me.

[Milky Joe]

Blech. I hate using actors as the characters in games. I really hope this trend doesn't continue.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9e81lPyG51r15h74o1_128 0.png

[Gittes]

L.A. Noire seemed so promising, but it turned out to be so very monotonous and uninspired. I'm still hoping for an actually compelling, cerebral video game based on the nuances of detective work and heavily steeped in the noir tradition.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Gamescom: definitely looking forward to Bloodbourne and Silent Hill, but most intrigued by The Tomorrow People. WTF is this game?

[Morris Schæffer]

L.A. Noire seemed so promising, but it turned out to be so very monotonous and uninspired. I'm still hoping for an actually compelling, cerebral video game based on the nuances of detective work and heavily steeped in the noir tradition.

This was an experience worth playing, but I didn't think it worked all the way. It's a tricky concept to pull of in games. What if a case had you so challenged that it deprived you of sleep, got you frustrated just like in real life? I don't think that works in videogames. Also, true deductive skills, like in real life and like we see in Zodiac, True Detective and numerous other works of 'fiction' is often based on hunches, laser-eye view for details, photographic memories. How do you convey that in games without making the gamer feel like he's running around in circles? The crime scenes in LA Noire are a colossal joke when you think about it, with each one having a pretty much neatly arranged lineup of items that take you from point a to b, from b to c and so on and so forth. Part of that stems from Rockstar's desire to tell a story, to be cinematic rather than saying "Screw the story, here's the city, do as you please." There's never an epiphany in L.A. Noire, that spine-tingling moment when you figured something out, or think you have, and while at work (real work) ponder the possibilities of putting that plan into action later at night when you return. The hand-holding is pretty severe, as it was in GTA V with the heists. You never planned dick, it was all mapped out for you, all you had to do is press a few buttons, make a few boring selections and see it play out. These games have huge strengths and are still deserving of their praise, but I can see how a game such as LA Noire (and GTA V) can all became a lot greater still.

[Gittes]

This was an experience worth playing, but I didn't think it worked all the way. It's a tricky concept to pull of in games. What if a case had you so challenged that it deprived you of sleep, got you frustrated just like in real life? I don't think that works in videogames. Also, true deductive skills, like in real life and like we see in Zodiac, True Detective and numerous other works of 'fiction' is often based on hunches, laser-eye view for details, photographic memories. How do you convey that in games without making the gamer feel like he's running around in circles?

You're right. This is sort of like the reverse of the dilemma of The Last of Us film: the considerable challenge inherent in translating something that is so well-suited to films and novels into a video game. If anyone is interested in reading some of my thoughts as I attempted to process this interesting topic, I've bracketed something below (i.e., to avoid unnecessary scrolling by those of you who are turned off by seemingly interminable walls of text and/or aren't interested in reading my spontaneous message board novellas):


For starters, though, I would prefer something less episodic and less focused on redundant, familiar 'challenges' that seem conducive to a kind of somnambulistic mode of gaming, where your progress is defined by easy repetition and familiarities. The ensuing tedium discouraged me, so I never finished L.A. Noire. From what I gather, some of the later cases are bound together by something resembling an overarching narrative. That doesn't solve the redundant nature of the individual challenges (i.e., the detecting and interrogations), does it?

I would rather play a game that is committed to a single, complex mystery, and replete with the convolutions, reversals, and fatalism that is typical of film noir. Moreover, diversity of action and circumstance is key: this doesn't necessarily mean a sprawling environment and an array of locations, but rather a really evocative and thoughtfully designed space, something at once densely detailed and interestingly dynamic. In other words, something that changes as the narrative develops, so the player can return to different areas at different times, cueing new conflicts, cutscenes, and epiphanies as the achievements accrue and the story unravels. You should visit people and places that, at various junctures, feel as if they've been made anew following key discoveries and accomplishments.

Everything I've said is kind of vague, though. I'm hardly pointing toward anything like a solution. As you said, drawing gamers toward salient clues is actually a distortion of the appeal of detective work: a cognitive, pensive exercise becomes a simple easter egg hunt. On the other hand, as you also point out, detective work isn't necessarily appealing when we're wholly responsible for the onerous task of detecting. True fidelity to that idea can devolve into its own monotony, unless we're talking about a film or a novel. While Chinatown sutures us to Jake's perspective through a series of close, over the shoulder shots, so that his discoveries (or the lack thereof) are also our own, the spectator is still submitting to a narrative experience whose assemblage, momentum, intrigue, etc., is not her responsibility.

Yet think about some of the best Zelda puzzles -- not where you gain ingress by pushing a block into a corresponding groove, or shooting an arrow into a conspicuous target, but the more elaborate and challenging kinds, where you do find yourself running around in circles and working out a series of hypotheses until you figure out the solution. This is often very enjoyable. While you are occasionally interrupted by a character like Navi, Midna, or Fi, I actually think the games still manage to leave you alone, so to speak, which can generate an interesting mode of uncertainty and contemplation. This is accompanied by the usual ludic pleasures of a video game, which, in the case of the puzzles, is very much about the trial and error experience of flitting around an intriguing and enclosed space in the hope of gleaning a solution.

The suggestion of an arcane design that will submit to your will and ingenuity is very appealing. I like the calm, contemplative atmosphere of these sections and the satisfaction of watching the pieces of a puzzle lock into place, figuratively or literally. I also prefer to work through those games without a strategy guide, so I'm effectively courting frustration and that 'running around in circles' experience. It's fun. So, evidently, these kind of confounding, detail-oriented challenges work well in Zelda games -- might there be a way of translating the achieved effect into a very different type of video game?

Of course, Zelda's worlds readily invite a diversity of puzzles. The creators are relatively unhindered by anything besides the elected art style and the limits of their imagination. The conventions (and, perhaps, period trappings) of a good noir game poses a different challenge, as they wouldn't enable the same kind of fantastical designs. Also, Zelda's narrative, and the dungeons themselves, serve to motivate the contrived nature of the puzzles. In other words, you feel like you're solving something that has so obviously been deliberately laid out for you, and yet this isn't at all alienating. It may be patently obvious that these puzzles have been intricately designed, given their elaborate strangeness, but the gamer can attribute this to the malevolent efforts of, say, Ganondorf, or the idea of these places as ancient labyrinths housing sacred objects, which would explain the necessity of prohibitive measures like obstacles/puzzles. The immersion and atmosphere isn't sacrificed, because the contrivances pass muster as natural extensions of the fictional world, rather than functioning only as a reminder of the cleverness of the game designers.

Conversely, in a detective narrative, you ought to feel like you're grappling with obstacles or puzzles that strike you as believable, logical, incidental, spontaneous, etc. Contrived obstacles/puzzles of any kind wouldn't blend in as well. They would seem unmotivated in a detective game, which is more likely to be bound to a realistic urban space (and everything that implies). Integrating more noticeably contrived and enjoyable puzzles via, say, a Riddler-like antagonist orchestrating carefully devised challenges, would obviously verge too far from the specific and credible pleasures of detective fiction.

In other words, in response to the thoughtful points and questions raised in Morris' post:

http://i.minus.com/ibntD6KZmsgNFD.gif

[Morris Schæffer]

Funny you talk about zelda as i was thinking about metroid prime. Never before was being stuck so memorable and addicting as in those games, because you know your inability to figure our the environment does not stem from shitty level design, but rather ingenious and deviously cunning level design, which is why running around in circles is never a chore. Going back to LA Noire, i actually experienced uncanny valley during the interrogation scenes. The mocap was amazing, but It felt odd to look for clues in people's behavior knowing full well they're still a bunch of pixels. Cut scenes no problem, magnificent, but the interrogation scenes still looked like people were going through a limited set of repeated ticks and eye gestures. I love poker, but anytime I attempt a videogame variant, like in Red ded redemption for instance, it becomes something to suffer through, to endure. Which I don't. Perhaps that's a possible irony. The closer games get to realistic humans for moments of active participation (not cut scenes in other words), the larger the chasm and disconnect become.

[Gittes]

Funny you talk about zelda as i was thinking about metroid prime. Never before was being stuck so memorable and addicting as in those games, because you know your inability to figure our the environment does not stem from shitty level design, but rather ingenious and deviously cunning level design, which is why running around in circles is never a chore.

I'll have to take your word for it, as I don't remember much about that game. I haven't played Metroid Prime since its release, and it's yet another game that went uncompleted. I can't remember why, but I never made it past Phendrana Drifts (that visually arresting snowy area, whose name I know because it's brought up a lot on other forums). The Wii version is apparently really hard to find, too. I do have access to Super Metroid, though, and I imagine what you're saying applies to that game as well.

The question, which I really wasn't able to answer in my last post, is how can a video game that is expressly about the act of detecting generate similar pleasures? How do you avoid the dullness of L.A. Noire? Again, in that case, if I recall correctly, you're bound to a routine of easy monotony: collect a series of conspicuous clues and then, maybe, chase a culprit. This was sort of interesting the first time around, before it became way too repetitive.



Going back to LA Noire, i actually experienced uncanny valley during the interrogation scenes. The mocap was amazing, but It felt odd to look for clues in people's behavior knowing full well they're still a bunch of pixels.

Yeah, one of the weirder things about those exchanges is how often their faces are left to idle as you consider your options. The resulting sense of dead air just didn't agree with the kind of authenticity that was otherwise being achieved. In reality, it would be totally odd to just watch a suspect for a significant period of time, in total silence. The way they cycle through, as you put it, "a limited set of repeated ticks and eye gestures," doesn't help matters.


The closer games get to realistic humans for moments of active participation (not cut scenes in other words), the larger the chasm and disconnect become.

L.A. Noire certainly demonstrates the pitfalls of this approach. I think Half-Life 2 handles NPC interactions well, but that's probably because it's aspiring toward immersion, but not necessarily the kind of "active participation" we see in L.A. Noire. The interpersonal exchanges aren't really dependent on you. Sure, things can get weird if, for instance, Dr. Kleiner and Alyx are telling you about matters of great import and you're jumping around the lab and swinging your crowbar at nothing in particular, but I usually try to embrace the narrative. I still think there are less opportunities for the kind of dead air and awkwardness that we're talking about. People talk to you, but then they usually have to flit off somewhere, either with or without Gordon, or they're fighting alongside you, so there's a sense of purpose and direction to the AI -- I don't recall many lulls where there are opportunities for the exchanges to feel weird and noticeably artificial. Characters may occasionally await your action so as to open a door or something, but if you're not resisting the pace and expectations of the game, then nothing would seem unusual. L.A. Noire actually requires everything to slow down, by design, and that brings the artifice of the creation into relief. So, yeah, the interrogation scenes necessarily come at the expense of the effectiveness of what is otherwise a pretty remarkable technical achievement.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3883/14901887366_45e77b27f9_o.gifht tps://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/14738305287_3ae8cf3c8a_o.gifht tps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3838/14921797691_d7a84b6fa9_o.gif

[Gittes]

Empire released their list (http://www.empireonline.com/features/100greatestgames/) of the 100 greatest video games. As always, there are some questionable selections.

[Dukefrukem]

Empire released their list (http://www.empireonline.com/features/100greatestgames/) of the 100 greatest video games. As always, there are some questionable selections.

Great list. Love their top 20. I'd rearrange some things.

I'd push up Half-Life 2, push down Mass Effect 2, push up Uncharted 2: Among Thieves, push back Bioshock Infinite.

The only game I would remove/replace would be Assassin's Creed II. I feel like Brotherhood is the better game.

[Dukefrukem]

This is so weird.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DL0W9AUCuY#t=101

[Morris Schæffer]

Empire released their list (http://www.empireonline.com/features/100greatestgames/) of the 100 greatest video games. As always, there are some questionable selections.

Looks like a great read, thanks. #92, zelda: skyward sword has a big pic of link battling a spider. That was in the game?! I always thought that bit was only for that E3 presentation that nintendo had for the wiiu.

[Gittes]

I just wanted to throw out another thought related to the earlier discussion: surely there have been more successful examples of detective work in video games, right? I remember renting DéjÃ* Vu for the NES, but I don't remember much about it, besides the fact that I found the idea very fascinating. The only thing I recall is coming across a dead body collapsed over a desk and investigating the drawers or something. These are really early memories, but I also think I found this part unsettling (there might have an accompanying musical cue that made it more disturbing, but I'm not sure). This game must have been my first introduction to the pleasures of detective fiction (which is kind of ironic, given our discussion).

Does anyone remember this game?


https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3894/14929280741_ee876a6ef0_o.jpg


There's also Blade Runner, the point and click game for the PC.

[Morris Schæffer]

http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~mkotowsk/games/kgb.gif

KGB, for the Amiga 500, had a similar detective vibe as I recall, but levels were small enough that randomly clicking on stuff was sorta fun and exciting, because you never knew what popped up or out. Which is what detectives often do. They rummage through stuff hoping something ignites a spark, bringing forth the epiphany.

[Gittes]

Right. What about the Phoenix Wright games? I haven't played them, and they obviously belong to a different genre, but I believe those games are all about considering evidence and very active interpersonal exchanges. They're also extremely popular, aren't they? I'm sure there's something there that would translate well into a good detective game. At any rate, I'm hoping that a development team will eventually figure out a more compelling way to simulate detective work, where monotony is obviated via a carefully designed and dynamic array of challenges: collecting evidence, sure, but also parsing evidence (in a manner that actually requires some thought and feels like a good puzzle), pursuing suspects (in different ways so as to avoid repetitiveness), unique combat scenarios, and engaging stealth sections (a good point of reference is Metal Gear Solid 4, which had a great stealth section).

It's also possible I'm being too hard on L.A. Noire, since it's been a while since I last played it. Evidently, I really wasn't taken with it at the time (maybe it improves in the second half).

[Skitch]

That list is comprised of reader selections/votes, I believe.

[EyesWideOpen]

Right. What about the Phoenix Wright games? I haven't played them, and they obviously belong to a different genre, but I believe those games are all about considering evidence and very active interpersonal exchanges. They're also extremely popular, aren't they? I'm sure there's something there that would translate well into a good detective game. At any rate, I'm hoping that a development team will eventually figure out a more compelling way to simulate detective work, where monotony is obviated via a carefully designed and dynamic array of challenges: collecting evidence, sure, but also parsing evidence (in a manner that actually requires some thought and feels like a good puzzle), pursuing suspects (in different ways so as to avoid repetitiveness), unique combat scenarios, and engaging stealth sections (a good point of reference is Metal Gear Solid 4, which had a great stealth section).

It's also possible I'm being too hard on L.A. Noire, since it's been a while since I last played it. Evidently, I really wasn't taken with it at the time (maybe it improves in the second half).

I've played two Phoenix Wright games and I want to really like them but once you get past the first case or so everything is too much trial and error, or blind luck then actual common sense detective work and that turned me off.

[Spun Lepton]

I've got my eyes on Until Dawn. I hope this is the game that Heavy Rain promised to be. It sounds very promising with a "butterfly effect" engine where every decision, major or minor, could impact the direction of the story. But, we'll see. The fact that it's a survival horror game also goes a long way to pique my interest.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/until-dawns-hollywood-infused-ps4-reboot-is-absolu/1100-6421731/

[Gittes]

I've played two Phoenix Wright games and I want to really like them but once you get past the first case or so everything is too much trial and error, or blind luck then actual common sense detective work and that turned me off.

Ah, that's too bad.

I've done a little research and the following, according to some, is apparently very good and well-written:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3911/14919473626_959c656305_o.jpg


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5564/14755797990_d4fa3888b4_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5571/14942106072_51c51c0dde_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5552/14919499126_a65262bfb5_o.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5561/14755940367_e133a1711b_o.jpg

[Gittes]

Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars (PC/Mac, PlayStation, iOS, DS, Wii) also seems to be held in high esteem.

See spoiler section for images, which, in certain respects, are redolent of Polanski's 1988 film, Frantic.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5572/14755948059_4d3e64e0e0_o.jpg


https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5574/14919689986_3753eb49b6_b.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3861/14756011130_111883dd6f_b.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3861/14939644541_0565daf2e5_b.jpght tps://farm4.staticflickr.com/3921/14756070648_93d1f3a6e4_o.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3861/14755997579_6ae205b2af_o.png
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5570/14756015828_bb5ab6e4f7_o.jpg

[Morris Schæffer]

Been going through the empire list and finally came upon a rather unexpected entry, namely #54, Call of Juarez. Always thought these were ok, not quite fit for a top 100 of all time.

[Dukefrukem]

Those screens reminds me of the Dig.

[Gittes]

I'm on Day 7 of the story mode in Pikmin 3 and, wow, this game is so cool. For starters, the concept is great: a shipwrecked crew collaborates with a group of benign extraterrestrial life forms to help them survive, and eventually escape from, an inhospitable planet. Not surprisingly, the execution is superb. So far, it's a substantially polished and carefully designed experience.

There's a lot to discover and the world that is established is so interesting and minutely detailed. You can restart each day, so there's an exciting range of permutations as far as accomplishing your goals is concerned. There's something supremely engaging and satisfying about setting out on any given day and aspiring toward maximum efficiency, trying to apply a plan, striving to avoid Pikmin casualties, facing the inevitable contingencies and setbacks, improvising, relishing in the small victories, etc. The challenge of this game is incredibly stimulating and rewarding.

There's a prodigious amount of appealing aspects: the variety and intricacy of the environments, the changes in the weather, the character and enemy designs, the Pikmin sound effects, the artifacts of a bygone civilization, the related suggestion that the game takes place in a post-human future, etc. Also, between this and ​Mario Kart 8, it's becoming clear that one of the Wii U's key visual strengths is its ability to generate some very impressive lighting.

The soundtrack is essential to the achievement of the impressive atmosphere. The music can feel appropriately lugubrious at times, which contributes to the sense of loneliness and desolation that is so central to this game's unique appeal. At other times, it's more buoyant, in a manner befitting the sense of exploration and intrepidness. While there is a light and sprightly quality to the proceedings, the scenario never feels frivolous. There's actually a very interesting tension between the game's cheerful exuberance and its more eerie, darker sensibilities.

All of my positive feelings were amplified when I witnessed an exhilarating and bizarre sight: a large number of my Pikmin diligently carrying the enormous carcass of a beast (Armored Mawdad (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5577/14923636936_0eeb49672f_b.jpg)) they just killed, and marching toward the far off destination of the landing site, where the creature's body will be harvested (meanwhile, two nearby groups could be seen transporting the spoils of the battle: a gigantic cellphone and an similarly large piece of cactus fruit).

[Ezee E]

Until Dawn sounds amazing, and may be the game that makes me decide on PS4.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm on Day 7 of the story mode in Pikmin 3 and, wow, this game is so cool. For starters, the concept is great: a shipwrecked crew collaborates with a group of benign extraterrestrial life forms to help them survive, and eventually escape from, an inhospitable planet. Not surprisingly, the execution is superb. So far, it's a substantially polished and carefully designed experience.

There's a lot to discover and the world that is established is so interesting and minutely detailed. You can restart each day, so there's an exciting range of permutations as far as accomplishing your goals is concerned. There's something supremely engaging and satisfying about setting out on any given day and aspiring toward maximum efficiency, trying to apply a plan, striving to avoid Pikmin casualties, facing the inevitable contingencies and setbacks, improvising, relishing in the small victories, etc. The challenge of this game is incredibly stimulating and rewarding.

There's a prodigious amount of appealing aspects: the variety and intricacy of the environments, the changes in the weather, the character and enemy designs, the Pikmin sound effects, the artifacts of a bygone civilization, the related suggestion that the game takes place in a post-human future, etc. Also, between this and ​Mario Kart 8, it's becoming clear that one of the Wii U's key visual strengths is its ability to generate some very impressive lighting.

The soundtrack is essential to the achievement of the impressive atmosphere. The music can feel appropriately lugubrious at times, which contributes to the sense of loneliness and desolation that is so central to this game's unique appeal. At other times, it suggests something befitting an intrepid adventure. There is a light, sprightly quality to the proceedings, but the scenario never feels frivolous. There's actually a very interesting tension between the game's cheerful exuberance and its more eerie, darker sensibilities.

All of my positive feelings were amplified when I came across this exhilarating and bizarre sight: a large number of my Pikmin diligently carrying the enormous carcass of a beast (Armored Mawdad (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5577/14923636936_0eeb49672f_b.jpg)) they just killed, and marching toward the far off destination of the landing site, where the creature's body will be harvested (meanwhile, two nearby groups could be seen transporting the spoils of the battle: a gigantic cellphone and an similarly large piece of cactus fruit).

This is a fantastic post. I wish I could write down my thoughts as well as you.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Until Dawn sounds amazing, and may be the game that makes me decide on PS4.

I wasn't that impressed with the gameplay that showed up on YouTube. Looks far too much like Heavy Rain to me. Very cool idea, poor implementation. I'm intrigued by the "thousands of different endings" claim and what they say is a true butterfly effect with decisions and investigating, but I want to actually play my game in a meaningful way, not just make decisions and then be along for the ride.

[Gittes]

This is a fantastic post. I wish I could write down my thoughts as well as you.

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate that. It's an exceptional game, so I just couldn't resist trying to articulate some of my enthusiasm. I can't wait to get back to it. I'd definitely be interested in reading your thoughts, especially since this game is in your top 10 (I still have a lot left, I imagine, but now that I've put some hours into it, I can totally understand the high praise).

I forgot to mention that I also like the way the way the game is punctuated by those calm, interstitial moments, with the ship safely off the planet, the journal entries, the onboard dialogue exchanges, etc. It's great. I like the serene quality that is conveyed in those instances, and the way the characters reflect on the events that have transpired and discuss their predicament, future plans, etc. It's also a good opportunity for levity, which is another of the game's virtues. The fact that these moments of repose are included really contributes to the impression of an actual adventure being lived and endured, through multiple days and nights, rather than just nonstop activity.

[Morris Schæffer]

Ten minutes into "Fez" and I'm utterly mesmerized by the switching perspectives. It takes me back to the glory days of Commodore Amiga games except I've got a sneaking suspicion no Amiga game was ever as devious as this one. That said, there was a specific game, one I never played, but know of, that Fez may have borrowed a bit from and that was Nebulus!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TXFy3c_GA8

[Dukefrukem]

So 3 weeks till Destiny.

Who's buying day 1? I'm still torn.

I'm having a blast with Firefall right now.

[bac0n]

So 3 weeks till Destiny.

Who's buying day 1? I'm still torn.

I'm having a blast with Firefall right now.

I have Destiny pre-ordered, but I'm having such a blast with DCUO, that I don't even know if I'll be playing it right away.

Aw, who am I kidding, of course I will.

[Morris Schæffer]

A 3-hour binge session of F.E.A.R. 3 Sweetness. Been a while. And what a spectacular game. You've seen it all before, but bosses and shootouts are furious, exciting.

[Dukefrukem]

A 3-hour binge session of F.E.A.R. 3 Sweetness. Been a while. And what a spectacular game. You've seen it all before, but bosses and shootouts are furious, exciting.

FEAR 3 spectacular?????

Standards low much?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Played the P.T. interactive trailer. Pretty creepy stuff, though far too difficult to solve. I had to cheat a few times and look up the answers online. Still, gets me really excited for the potential of a new Silent Hill.

[EyesWideOpen]

Played the P.T. interactive trailer. Pretty creepy stuff, though far too difficult to solve. I had to cheat a few times and look up the answers online. Still, gets me really excited for the potential of a new Silent Hill.

I agree. I'm not too worried about the puzzle stuff because I'm sure that was just them trying to hide the Silent Hill aspect. I expect the actual game not to be that obtuse with its puzzles.

[Ezee E]

P.t.?

[Dukefrukem]

P.t.?

It might be best you don't know. Go to the PSN and search for PT Demo in the demo section.

Install

Play

Return here and post reaction.

[Kurosawa Fan]

P.t.?

Play it at night. With the lights off. Alone.

[Morris Schæffer]

FEAR 3 spectacular?????

Standards low much?

I can't think of a single thing it does wrong and it excels in the one area it has to. Yeah, i didn't care about the story, but i could have said the same thing about Vanquish and it wouldn't have bothered me. This game moves forward and is simply fun to play, but still a solid challenge. Not every game has to be Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us.

[Scar]

It might be best you don't know. Go to the PSN and search for PT Demo in the demo section.

Install

Play

Return here and post reaction.
I'm intrigued.

[bac0n]

Play it at night. With the lights off. Alone. Strung out on crystal meth. Naked. Crying.

Fixed.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Fixed.

That's pretty much how I felt afterward.

[Dead & Messed Up]

That Top 100 does not include Super Mario Bros. 3. I don't know if I've ever seen a video game list that didn't have that one somewhere towards the top. Bold move, Empire.

[Spun Lepton]

I've already been treated like a fool for this statement, but ... I have zero interest in Destiny.

[Gittes]

I'm not sure if this will interest anyone else, but here it is, just in case. The following video, which is split into two parts, is very entertaining, compulsively watchable, etc. James Rolfe (AKA "The Angry Video Game Nerd") and Mike Matei upload videos in this vein every Monday, but I've never been too taken with any of them. This one works. Unlike the AVGN videos, this series isn't staged and Rolfe isn't playing a character or anything like that. I was surprised to find myself watching the whole thing. This is partly because they selected an especially interesting game: Batman (NES). Does anyone here remember this one? It was actually the second video game I acquired (the first was Super Mario Bros. 3). It's also my earliest memory of a birthday gift. I'm sure I was delighted, but I also remember that I was really awful at it and probably never made it very far.

I also like this video because it's such an authentic example of a particular type of gaming experience -- namely, two gamers, in the same room, working together to overcome virtual challenges. This isn't necessarily antiquated, but the industry generally seems less interested in pursuing these types of gameplay scenarios. The issue isn't only about design practices changing (Batman isn't even a two player game), but also consumer trends and the overriding emphasis on online play.

Naturally, the mood of the video is, by turns, casual and frustrated. What's also captured here is that odd, enveloping sense where the ostensible frivolity of a game gives way to a kind of frenzied level of concentration. The repetitious cycle of progress and failure generates bizarre, disproprionate levels of intensity and the tenacious mania that ensues is hilarious and fascinating (Rolfe has built an entire career around this idea). The video also works as a memorable demonstration of the kinds of experiences and interpersonal possibilities that seem exclusive to this particular medium.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_i6Sr4LIJM&list=UU0M0 rxSz3IF0CsSour1iWmw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWlRclouV2w&list=UU0M0 rxSz3IF0CsSour1iWmw

Oh, and I think I was also riveted because there's a certain mystique to this game, which mostly derives from all the stories I've heard about the preposterous difficulty of the final boss (the Joker). I was curious about whether or not they would actually reach him and what would happen next. I won't say much, but the conclusion isn't disappointing, especially if you've watched the whole thing.

[TGM]

Yeah, I watched those videos when they were posted. It's insane how intense just watching them play through this game can get, especially in that second video.

[Morris Schæffer]

That Top 100 does not include Super Mario Bros. 3. I don't know if I've ever seen a video game list that didn't have that one somewhere towards the top. Bold move, Empire.

It's not their list, but from countless of gamers who have each put forth their fave game.

[Morris Schæffer]

Anyhow, F.E.A.R. 3 is an accomplished FPS. On to Gears of War: Judgment!

[Dukefrukem]

I can't think of a single thing it does wrong and it excels in the one area it has to. Yeah, i didn't care about the story, but i could have said the same thing about Vanquish and it wouldn't have bothered me. This game moves forward and is simply fun to play, but still a solid challenge. Not every game has to be Bioshock Infinite or The Last of Us.

Man I just can't see it. The gameplay was such a slog and pointless. I played it co-op and at least had someone with me I could be entertained by. And that final boss... ugh, since when was F.E.A.R. Dead Space?

[Dukefrukem]

Oh damn. Skybound and Overkill (Payday series) and Robert Kirkman announce Walking Dead co-op game.

[Dukefrukem]

So this Zoey Quinn story is getting crazy.

[EyesWideOpen]

The story isn't crazy. The scum fucks on the Internet are.

[Milky Joe]

Batman NES rules. One of the best Castlevania-likes on the system.

[Gittes]

I made it a little farther in Pikmin 3 and it's still super charming, thrilling, impressive, etc. I beat the second boss, the Vehemoth Phosbat (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3846/14963937336_62fc75afb9_o.jpg), and returned its hideous (but visually superb) corpse back to the landing site within the same day. I also managed to do this without losing a single Pikmin, which took many tries and involved a lot of panic and intensity. I've never experienced a game where the losses feel this important and devastating. I'm always striving to preserve all of my Pikmin.

[Gittes]

Batman NES rules. One of the best Castlevania-likes on the system.

Have you completed it?

I know that a high degree of fidelity isn't a typical characteristic of video games based on films, but I still found it curious that the Joker was able to summon bolts of lightning. :)

[D_Davis]

The story isn't crazy. The scum fucks on the Internet are.

There are many reasons why I am often ashamed of gaming as a hobby, and the rampant misogyny, hatred, and racism from fellow gamers is the main one.

This whole thing makes me want to have nothing to do with the larger community of gamers. It's disgusting.

[Dukefrukem]

There are many reasons why I am often ashamed of gaming as a hobby, and the rampant misogyny, hatred, and racism from fellow gamers is the main one.

This whole thing makes me want to have nothing to do with the larger community of gamers. It's disgusting.

Because the music community (and being a musician) has such a spotless reputation?

[Dukefrukem]

Can't wait.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMWK2uj7nQw

[Skitch]

Whats with the balloons? Thats pretty neat.

[Gittes]

So, I'm assuming that Kojima is adopting the Metal Gear Solid 2 strategy and has once again selected a very specific area to be the (almost) exclusive focus of the promotional content (i.e., MGS2's oil tanker prologue). After a cursory look at that footage, it all seems very familiar. I know this latest video is meant to focus on the variety of gameplay, and that's fine, but I'm also curious about the diversity of environments.

[megladon8]

Hooked the PS4 up in the bedroom so it will get more use.

Played the P.T. thing.

"Hey this is creepy. Graphics are amazing. Hey that door just opened. Huh, this news report is a little silly, no way they'd go in to that much detail.

Huh, the same hallway. Why is there a baby crying.

OH MY JESUS WHAT THE HELL IS THAT????"

[Ezee E]

p.t. Is ps4 only?

[megladon8]

8-1-2 hours into "The Last Of Us". Almost at the radio tower with Sam and Henry.

Story and characters are incredible. Acting, visuals, sound all top notch. I just find the game kind of a slog to play.

The combat is kind of lame.

This should have just been a movie.

[Idioteque Stalker]

8-1-2 hours into "The Last Of Us". Almost at the radio tower with Sam and Henry.

Story and characters are incredible. Acting, visuals, sound all top notch. I just find the game kind of a slog to play.

The combat is kind of lame.

This should have just been a movie.

What difficulty are you playing on? I can imagine all the sneaking around (where the combat really excels) might seem a little pointless on easier modes. The gameplay really thrives when the systems (crafting, sneaking, gunplay) force you via a real sense of peril to think creatively in taking down mobs. It hammers home the game's themes of survival at any cost, and I can't even count the number of times amazing emergent gameplay happened--alerting guards by accidentally kicking pots, Ellie rescuing me, etc.

It's easily some of my favorite combat in recent memory. It has the excitement of an action game but is way more tactical. Same goes for the multiplayer.

[megladon8]

I think I'm playing on normal, I'm honestly not sure - I don't remember which I chose when I started.

My biggest problem with the combat is that I don't feel like I am getting any better at the game. With most encounters, I die and die and die and die and die, and then I will finally get through it...but I have no idea how or why. It felt like pure luck that I finally got through it.

It's a difficult game, which is fine. I love difficulty. But there's no tangible sense of progression. I don't feel any better at the combat than I did when I first started.

[D_Davis]

This should have just been a movie.

I'm pretty sure this is Naughty Dog's company motto.

[Dukefrukem]

I think I'm playing on normal, I'm honestly not sure - I don't remember which I chose when I started.

My biggest problem with the combat is that I don't feel like I am getting any better at the game. With most encounters, I die and die and die and die and die, and then I will finally get through it...but I have no idea how or why. It felt like pure luck that I finally got through it.

It's a difficult game, which is fine. I love difficulty. But there's no tangible sense of progression. I don't feel any better at the combat than I did when I first started.

"You must be playing it wrong." -D_Davis

[megladon8]

Nah, I've gotten good at headshots, I've upgraded my favorite weapons, I've been tactfully using explosives and smoke bombs.

But I still only seem to get through encounters on pure luck.

Unlike games like "Hitman" and the "Batman AA" games where the stealth took time to master but when I got it, it was incredibly satisfying - here it doesn't really feel like that happens. One encounter in particular (where Joel gets separated from Ellie after falling down an elevator shaft, and he must make his way back up to her from the basement) I ended up just sprinting through to avoid confrontations, because I couldn't feasibly find a way to fight the creatures - particularly when the Bloater showed up.

Don't get me wrong, the story is keeping me moving along. It's truly incredible stuff, and I am anxious to see how Joel and Ellie's relationship develops and matures.

But I don't find the actual game very fun.

[D_Davis]

We're having an all-day game day this Saturday, and we'll be streaming it live on Twitch - just for funsies.

Video games and board games. Not sure if the board game stuff will get streamed.

It'll be streamed here:

http://www.twitch.tv/dobervich/profile

[Idioteque Stalker]

Sorry you're not getting better, I guess? Shrug.

I don't see a problem with skipping loads of enemies if the situation arises. It's part of the game. On survivor and grounded difficulties you almost have to because resources are so scarce. Last time I was in the basement of the hotel (scariest part of the game to me by far) I just wanted to get the fuck out, so I lured the bloater away from the door and then booked it. A stalker popped out and I just walloped him across the head with a baseball bat and kept running, got through the door as they're all coming down the hall, and that was that. It was thrilling, and furthermore in my mind totally fair.

There's a section at the university when you can sneak by everyone if you don't care about collectibles (I already got them all on a prior playthrough). Some clickers are sleeping, some are walking around, and there's this huge bloater just snoring like hell. I silently snuck past, woke it up going through a door, and then it just stood there yelling at me from the other side. Didn't get any loot, but it was fun to see if I could pull it off.

[megladon8]

Meh. Not every game is for everyone, right?

I loved the "Uncharted" games (3rd was the weakest but still fun).

I'm liking it enough that I may check out the ReMastered on PS4 someday.

[megladon8]

Just completed the end of Summer, with the section where you're held down by sniper fire while you try to make your way through the houses.

Now that was phenomenal. Tense, well-plotted, challenging without being frustrating. GREAT use of sound here as well.

And why is this game so relentless in trying to make me cry?? :cry:

[Kurosawa Fan]

And why is this game so relentless in trying to make me cry?? :cry:

I wouldn't expect that to change.

[megladon8]

I wouldn't expect that to change.


I don't. It's just brutal.

[Fezzik]

I finished "The Last of Us" last night - I can honestly say its in my top 5 games of all time.

It really makes me want to play the Uncharted games, but alas, they arent available on the PS4.

I think the "Winter" section of the game might be the high water mark for any "chapter" of any game I've ever played. Absolutely phenomenal stuff from both a mechanics and story standpoint. Emotionally and logistically, the stakes were appropriately high and there were so many moments where I couldn't breathe from the tension.

Just a stunning piece of entertainment and art.

I agree with Meg8 about Summer, too. That moment with the sniper fire was when I started to think about the game in the larger picture of everything I've ever played.

[Watashi]

There are many reasons why I am often ashamed of gaming as a hobby, and the rampant misogyny, hatred, and racism from fellow gamers is the main one.

This whole thing makes me want to have nothing to do with the larger community of gamers. It's disgusting.

This article is amazing.
(http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/26/video-games-misogyny-and-terrorism-a-guide-to-assholes/)

[D_Davis]

Great article. Thanks for the link. I sadly find it mostly true. I've been involved in a lot of different communities in different hobbies during my life, and the only one that has ever made be embarrassed to be a part of that hobby is the video gaming community at large.

[Gittes]

Nintendo just announced some DLC for Mario Kart 8. See below. The price is $11.99 if you buy both packs. It's definitely a very attractive offer. I can't wait to try out the Zelda tracks.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5580/14862439500_0817b09062_o.png

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3844/14862374619_13efccf704_b.jpg

[Skitch]

Meh. Not every game is for everyone, right?


My friend, I have watched countless hours upon hours of Metal Gear play, from the Solid version on PS1 on. I say watched, because its me watching friends playing it. I love it...and I am HORRIBLE at it. Its just not in my ability set. I can't survive 10 minutes. But I'm a great co-pilot.

Then we jump to Tekken where I let my opponent choose who I play as and mop the floor with them for hours.

If every game was for everyone, gaming would be a boring world.

[Gittes]

I just beat the Quaggled Mireclops (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3886/14872400547_740a360d35_b.jpg), which is the fifth boss in Pikmin 3. It's the largest enemy yet: a terrifying leviathan of vertiginous height that lumbers (and charges) around on bulbous feet. It tramples hapless Pikmin into shallow, watery graves. :sad: If you can get its legs to buckle so as to attack its head, you're still vulnerable to its enormous kaleidoscopic tongue (https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3902/15035834116_d941e49b98_o.jpg) (the screenshot doesn't quite do it justice; it looks really spectacular in motion), which flicks out and swallows up your Pikmin if you don't call them back in time.

Somehow, after numerous tries, I actually managed to take it down with zero casualties. Of course, I saw a lot of pale blue Pikmin ghosts fading away on the battlefield and heard many of their shrill cries but, to my surprise, I was eventually able to keep them all out of harm's way. That was surely the hardest challenge I have faced in a video game since those amazing rocket barrel levels in Donkey Kong Country Returns (the experience also reminded me of some of the exhilarating heights of Skyward Sword). Nintendo's development teams really know how to deliver exceptional boss battles.

Also, in addition to the technical marvel of that bizarre tongue, I loved how everything looked so realistically wet and sodden.

[EyesWideOpen]

Nintendo just announced some DLC for Mario Kart 8. See below. The price is $11.99 if you buy both packs. It's definitely a very attractive offer. I can't wait to try out the Zelda tracks.



I play as Pink Gold Peach but I'm definitely switching to Cat Peach. Super stoked for this DLC.

[Gittes]

I play as Pink Gold Peach but I'm definitely switching to Cat Peach. Super stoked for this DLC.

Yeah, it looks like a great, substantial update. I never would have expected 16 new courses. Mario's Frog Suit ought to make a comeback, though, as the design is just as endearing and nostalgically potent as the Tanooki Suit.

[EyesWideOpen]

Yeah, it looks like a great, substantial update. I never would have expected 16 new courses. Mario's Frog Suit ought to make a comeback, though, as the design is just as endearing and nostalgically potent as the Tanooki Suit.

I agree about the Frog suit but if they are only going to do one the Tanooki Suit is easily the most popular.

[bac0n]

Good God, apparently Anita Sarkeesian has gotten death threats that have forced her to evacuate her home for her own safety (http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats).

This shit keeps getting worse and worse.

[D_Davis]

Yep.

When I asked /r/darksouls2 to stop using the word "rape" as slang, as in "I got raped by that guy," or "I totally raped that shit!" my in box was full of people threatening to rape me in a variety of creative and violent ways.

I deleted that account have never again visited anything to do with gaming on reddit.

The gaming community can be seriously sick and disturbed.

[megladon8]

Similar to what you said earlier, D, I frequently feel ashamed to call myself a gamer.

It's truly a disgusting community.

4chan is populated almost entirely by gamers, and is an incredibly telling look at what goes on in these sick peoples' heads.

The thing is, when it comes to the argument about whether or not the games themselves bring about this sick behaviour, I firmly believe the answer is "no". These are people who are sick and disturbed, and through the anonymity of gaming and the internet they have found a way to express all their sickness to the world with no fear of reprisal.

[Dukefrukem]

Good God, apparently Anita Sarkeesian has gotten death threats that have forced her to evacuate her home for her own safety (http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/27/6075179/anita-sarkeesian-says-she-was-driven-out-of-house-by-threats).

This shit keeps getting worse and worse.

Anita Sarkeesian? Who? Am I supposed to know who she is?

[megladon8]

...maybe read the article?

[Spun Lepton]

The 14-year-olds who issued the death threat must be very proud of their dumbfuck selves.

[megladon8]

The 14-year-olds who issued the death threat must be very proud of their dumbfuck selves.


Yeah they totally showed her! Fuckin' bitch! Hope she gets raped to death in hell cause she deserves it!

She probably plays like a N00b.

[Dukefrukem]

...maybe read the article?

I could, but the only thing I hate more than hipsters are feminists.

[megladon8]

Not sure how to respond to that.

[D_Davis]

The 14-year-olds who issued the death threat must be very proud of their dumbfuck selves.

The sad thing is, they're more like 20-30-something-year-olds.

These are the kind of people leading the anti-SWJ attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROHvvtUcp8I

[Dukefrukem]

You just did. All I wanted to know is why this was posted in the video game thread and I just found out this Anita person did a video on the history of women being portrayed in background decoration, and I guess that pissed off the gaming "community". I for one, don't really care about this since the video in question that I just started watching, has several misguided and incorrect uses of her definition of background decoration and I'm only 4 minutes into video. Is there a point to the 28 minute video? Don't know, maybe I'll fast forward later.

And for the record, I'm am, and always was, happy to call myself a gamer.

[Gittes]

I could, but the only thing I hate more than hipsters are feminists.

Grow up.

[megladon8]

You just did. All I wanted to know is why this was posted in the video game thread and I just found out this Anita person did a video on the history of women being portrayed in background decoration, and I guess that pissed off the gaming "community". I for one, don't really care about this since the video in question that I just started watching, has several misguided and incorrect uses of her definition of background decoration and I'm only 4 minutes into video. Is there a point to the 28 minute video? Don't know, maybe I'll fast forward later.

And for the record, I'm am, and always was, happy to call myself a gamer.

That's not what the story was about, though. She was dating a guy in the gaming industry, they broke up, he posts a lengthy rant about her cheating on him, and gamers respond by making death threats.

I really hope you don't think that kind if behaviour is ok.

[D_Davis]

That's not what the story was about, though. She was dating a guy in the gaming industry, they broke up, he posts a lengthy rant about her cheating on him, and gamers respond by making death threats.

I really hope you don't think that kind if behaviour is ok.

I think you're getting you anti-feminist drama mixed up between Sarkeesian and Zoe Quinn.

[Dukefrukem]

That's not what the story was about, though. She was dating a guy in the gaming industry, they broke up, he posts a lengthy rant about her cheating on him, and gamers respond by making death threats.

I really hope you don't think that kind if behaviour is ok.

Actually that's not what it's about. I think you're confused by the story too.... And no I don't condone death threats. Obviously. Who would?

[Mara]

That's not what the story was about, though. She was dating a guy in the gaming industry, they broke up, he posts a lengthy rant about her cheating on him, and gamers respond by making death threats.

I really hope you don't think that kind if behaviour is ok.

Actually, you're confusing Anita Sarkeesian (who does the Feminist Frequency stuff) and Zoë Quinn, who is a video game developer. It's confusing because the two things are happening pretty much simultaneously.

I don't follow gaming too much but I'm interested in women's issues and am appalled by what is going on.

Also, Duke, what the hell.

[Dukefrukem]

Also, Duke, what the hell.

What the hell what? I've responded this way towards feminists in the past. This shouldn't be anything new.

Did anyone actually watch her video and finish it?

[Mara]

What the hell what? I've responded this way towards feminists in the past. This shouldn't be anything new.

Did anyone actually watch her video and finish it?

Of course I watched her video. I watch all her videos.

And I am a feminist, so yeah, I'm not going to react well to you saying you hate me.

[megladon8]

Ah yes apologies. I got the two stories mixed up because, as Mara said, they're similar circumstances happening simultaneously.

Both disgusting. Both show how much gamers suck.

[Dukefrukem]

Of course I watched her video. I watch all her videos.

And I am a feminist, so yeah, I'm not going to react well to you saying you hate me.

Well.... foot in mouth.... I guess... 1) I never knew you were a feminist, 2) I never have read anything from you to suggest you were 3) I definitely don't hate you and 4) If there is any way for me to salvage this MC relationship it would be rephrasing the word "hate" into "annoyed". That video annoys the hell out of me. It's not like I sit at home plotting my hatred for all feminists. So I apologize.

[Dukefrukem]

And it's not like I hate Arya, I mean he's a freakin hispter right? DD too. ;)

[Watashi]

If you're not a feminist, I automatically assume you're an asshole.

[Watashi]

Also, ban duke now.

[megladon8]

I dislike feminist extremists, but I dislike extremists of any cause.

[Dukefrukem]

Also, ban duke now.

Hey, I just took you off ignore last week....

[Mara]

Well, it's not like I'm going to disown you or anything, but that kind of blanket statement is really frustrating. And this:


2) I never have read anything from you to suggest you were

...makes me wonder a little bit. I talk about women's issues all the time on the board. I am sensitive to how women are portrayed in media and am willing to criticize writing that demeans (or more commonly) simplifies female characters. I'm not anti-man (and I have never known a feminist who was, and I know a shitload of feminists) but I am really passionate about a continuing culture that presents women as objects to be acted upon instead of self-directed human beings.

Actually, I never talk about it on these boards, but I'm actually deeply involved with a magazine specifically geared towards feminists of my religious faith (I write for them, plus read the submissions and do some editing.)

Maybe I should talk about some of that stuff more.

[Gittes]

What the hell what? I've responded this way towards feminists in the past. This shouldn't be anything new.

It's new to me, and it's the most flagrantly abhorrent thing I've encountered on here since an especially ignorant post by babydoll.



Did anyone actually watch her video and finish it?

What is your point? Even if people haven't watched the entire video yet, how does that discredit anyone's understandable disgust? The intention behind the video seems honourable and I will check it out. It should be very obvious that there is not going to be a single thing in that video that warrants the harassment and threats.

[Mara]

I dislike feminist extremists, but I dislike extremists of any cause.

I can understand both of these statements, but "extreme feminists" (more accurately, "radical feminists") make up a very, very small portion of the population. And like almost all extremists, they generally have something else wrong with them that is manifesting as an obsession with a certain topic.

(Ever heard of trans-exclusionary radical feminists? Those women are bananas.)

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the thread. I just popped in to see if you guys were discussing this stuff... and hey, you are.

[Dukefrukem]

Well, it's not like I'm going to disown you or anything, but that kind of blanket statement is really frustrating. And this:

...makes me wonder a little bit. I talk about women's issues all the time on the board.

It all seemed legitimate to me. Like your assistant story, seemed like something to get upset about! Who could even argue? But this video game video... is so... rollseyes worthy.

[D_Davis]

Should re-post this article that Wats posted a few days ago.


This article is amazing.
(http://badassdigest.com/2014/08/26/video-games-misogyny-and-terrorism-a-guide-to-assholes/)

[megladon8]

I'm not anti-man (and I have never known a feminist who was, and I know a shitload of feminists)

Just to clarify this is what I meant when I said "feminist extremists". While I don't know any in person, Jen does quite a bit of reading on feminist blogs and the like, and people with the attitude of "all men are scum and rapists" are angering, and actually more damaging to the cause than helpful. But, like I said, I disagree with extremism of any cause. These are the people who give the genuine forward-thinkers a bad reputation.


Actually, I never talk about it on these boards, but I'm actually deeply involved with a magazine specifically geared towards feminists of my religious faith (I write for them, plus read the submissions and do some editing.)

Maybe I should talk about some of that stuff more.

Yes you should! I would love to read some of your work.

[Sven]

These are the kind of people leading the anti-SWJ attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROHvvtUcp8I

These guys are loaded. Whether it's self-righteousness or PCP, their mutual demeanors make me very nervous.

[D_Davis]

It all seemed legitimate to me. Like your assistant story, seemed like something to get upset about! Who could even argue? But this video game video... is so... rollseyes worthy.

The quality of the video is not the point. Let's say every single thing in the video is factually wrong, and that every opinion she uttered was the worst, most wrong thing to ever be uttered in the history of humankind. Even if these things were true, she still wouldn't deserve the kind of treatment she is receiving.

However, she's receiving that treatment because she is a women encroaching and invading a boys' club, a club that perceives there to be some kind of secret, liberal agenda out to destroy them and taint their hobby.

[Irish]

I just started watching, has several misguided and incorrect uses of her definition of background decoration and I'm only 4 minutes into video.

Curious if you'd like to expound on this? Anita's videos are critical theory 101. I always find them interesting. I'm not seeing "misguided" uses of "background decoration."

I've largely stopped gaming. There's some aspects of the culture I really enjoyed. I have to admit I got a kick out of the laconic, cynical, hyper-macho culture around PvP related gameplay. Although I never understood why that meant it also had to be homophobic and misogynistic, too.

Also: Huge +1 to Watashi.

[Dukefrukem]

The quality of the video is not the point. Let's say every single thing in the video is factually wrong, and that every opinion she uttered was the worst, most wrong thing to ever be uttered in the history of humankind. Even if these things were true, she still wouldn't deserve the kind of treatment she is receiving.

However, she's receiving that treatment because she is a women encroaching and invading a boys' club, a club that perceives there to be some kind of secret, liberal agenda out to destroy them and taint their hobby.

I dont think anyone here is arguing the treatment she is getting is bad.

I think we are just attacking my post on hating feminists like I hate hipsters.

[Dukefrukem]

Curious if you'd like to expound on this? Anita's videos are critical theory 101. I always find them interesting. I'm not seeing "misguided" uses of "background decoration."

I've largely stopped gaming. There's some aspects of the culture I really enjoyed. I have to admit I got a kick out of the laconic, cynical, hyper-macho culture around PvP related gameplay. Although I never understood why that meant it also had to be homophobic and misogynistic, too.

Also: Huge +1 to Watashi.

She shows a video of Dead Island where a woman is in a bikini tied to bed. It's a quick shot of it, because if you actually notice the environment, there's a lot of kinky stuff going on around the room. It's because she was doing some S&M with another male, (who is not shown and already dead) and the woman was infected and turned into a zombie so she stayed tied to the bed. So the quick shot doesn't put the scene into context and doesn't even reference the male in the room. Only the woman. And it's not even a woman to begin with. It's a zombie. And the game is called Dead Island, because it takes place on an Island, and everyone you encounter on the island is in a bathing suit.

Most of her other examples using Assassins's Creed 2, Brotherhood and Revelations are historically accurate. So I don't know what that's such a big problem.

[Mara]

It all seemed legitimate to me. Like your assistant story, seemed like something to get upset about! Who could even argue? But this video game video... is so... rollseyes worthy.

Well, I'm going to take a little bit of issue with your terminology, since it presumes that if a complaint is "legitimate" is it not feminist.

RE: the videos.

Again, I'm going to disclaim that I am not a gamer. I don't have anything against game-playing generally, but it's an expensive hobby and I never got really hooked on it. But I personally found those videos horrifying. Some of it I expected, like the "fridging" trope which is so common in games/television/films that I want to punch someone every time I see it. ("Fridging, by the way, is introducing a female character whose only job is to be brutally killed in order to motivate the male hero into fighting.)

But some of the stuff in those videos were fucking horrible. It was full of female characters, highly sexualized, who are only programed to come on to the hero, be beat up, be raped, and often be killed. There was one game where you got extra points if you hog-tied a woman, (a prostitute, of course) carried her to a train track (while she continued to proposition you) and then left her to get hit by a train. In one of the Grand Theft Autos there was a mini-game where you tried to feel up a stripper without the management noticing, and if you did, she would have sex with you.

In that way, this particular set of videos are actually calling out game developers, not gamers. It's so widely assumed that heterosexual men are the only people who play video games (although statistically, this is not even close to true) that games are catering to the lowest common denominator of that demographic. It's cheap, sloppy, and insulting.

Anita isn't casting around desperately trying to find something to be insulted about. She's a gamer. She loves games. She thinks that games should be able to incorporate women without making them weak, hypersexual stereotypes.

Anyway. My two cents.

[D_Davis]

Patrick Klepek, one of the industries brightest minds, gave a great TedX talk about discourse on the internet. Well worth the watch, and his blog and articles on Giant Bomb are always thoughtful and worth reading. He talks about the topic at hand frequently, and thoughtfully.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u01Qs4x1S_U

[Dukefrukem]

It's new to me, and it's the most flagrantly abhorrent thing I've encountered on here since an especially ignorant post by babydoll.



What is your point? Even if people haven't watched the entire video yet, how does that discredit anyone's understandable disgust? The intention behind the video seems honourable and I will check it out. It should be very obvious that there is not going to be a single thing in that video that warrants the harassment and threats.

I think my last 2 posts cleared this up but if they haven't let me know.

[megladon8]

I can understand both of these statements, but "extreme feminists" (more accurately, "radical feminists") make up a very, very small portion of the population. And like almost all extremists, they generally have something else wrong with them that is manifesting as an obsession with a certain topic.

(Ever heard of trans-exclusionary radical feminists? Those women are bananas.)

I have not heard of this, no.

Hope my statement in extreme/radical feminism didn't come across too ignorant.

Feminism is something I have taken to pretty whole-heartedly as of late. I'm really seeing more and more of modern societies follies as I learn more about it. In the Guardians of the Galaxy thread I mentioned how I am constantly seeing things I never noticed before.

Similar to what Wats said earlier, I feel that if you don't have an interest in bettering female treatment and representation in society, you're kind of a jerk.

[D_Davis]

It's weird how these anti-feminist/LGBT guys online use the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" as a negative. As if wanting equality for all is a bad thing. This very fact demonstrates what their true agenda is.

[Mara]

For reference, one of the last games that I bought and played was 2007 version of Overlord. I bought it for my PC because a friend of mine (female) raved about how fun it was to play the bad guy.

And it was fun!

And because I'm not a total innocent, I expected a bunch of objectification, and I got it. There are two possible love interests, the "good" girl and the "bad" girl, and they both want nothing else in life than to be sexed up by the main character. He chooses one or the other (and can actually choose to kill one if he gets tired of her.) Also all the background characters were programmed with 1-2 lines each, and most of the female ones would swoon and proposition the main guy if you got close.

Pretty standard stuff.

But after I had played the game through once I looked online for side quests I hadn't completed, and I found one that pumped up your power if you abducted and enslaved ten women. You could tell the women you were supposed to enslave because they were the prettiest and least dressed. You had to track them and attack them while they screamed and tried to get away.

You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRScS5rMi8c

I was wary, but kind of started playing it. Once the women are enslaved, they are then at your castle, even less dressed than before, and... that was it. They don't do anything. They just hang around the castle.

I found it really upsetting. I tried to take the girls back, but there wasn't an option for that.

I stopped playing the game.

[Watashi]

It's weird how these anti-feminist/LGBT guys online use the phrase "Social Justice Warrior" as a negative. As if wanting equality for all is a bad thing. This very fact demonstrates what their true agenda is.

Isn't it obvious? Only men should have any say in this world. Only men who wear trench coats and fedoras can have the final say on equality.

[D_Davis]

m'lady.

[Spun Lepton]

The sad thing is, they're more like 20-30-something-year-olds.

These are the kind of people leading the anti-SWJ attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROHvvtUcp8I

I didn't finish this. Seemed like a lot of posturing and chest-beating.

I know about Sarkeesian from a Facebook friend, who posts links to other videos tearing her down. His posts have grown more irritating as of late, full of flimsy-at-best arguments.

I've watched two of the tear-down videos of the handful he's posted. I don't remember much about the first one, aside from thinking the creator of the video was kind of a loser. I watched the second one, still never having watched any of Sarkeesian's videos, mind you, and listened as the creator spun off into wild conjecture about her "real" motivations. I decided to stop watching the videos he's posted.

But, sometimes he posts images, too. The last one was a simplification of the issue. And that's when I began thinking about unfriending him.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Duke, for the record, I am also a feminist. In fact, I'd say that many of the male members of this board, judging by their posts, would consider themselves feminists.

[Dukefrukem]

Duke, for the record, I am also a feminist. In fact, I'd say that many of the male members of this board, judging by their posts, would consider themselves feminists.

You mean you're Pro-feminism. You're not a feminist.

[D_Davis]

You mean you're Pro-feminism. You're not a feminist.

Uhm, no?

[Mara]

You mean you're Pro-feminism. You're not a feminist.

No, he means feminist.

I'm becoming really kind of concerned that you might not know what feminist means.

[Mara]

As a refresher:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminist?s=t

Feminist

adjective
1. advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.

noun
2. an advocate of such rights.

[Kurosawa Fan]

You mean you're Pro-feminism. You're not a feminist.

No, I am absolutely a feminist. I believe very strongly in and advocate for social, political, and economic equality for women. That makes me a feminist. That is the very definition of feminism.

[Dukefrukem]

Being a feminist is supporting the ideology of equal rights between men and women. But it also includes actively demonstrating, promoting,and supporting that idea. If you just sit back and agree with everything but don't do anything, that's just being pro feminism, not a feminist.

[Dukefrukem]

As a refresher:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/feminist?s=t

Feminist

adjective
1. advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.

noun
2. an advocate of such rights.

Yeh key word advocate. You can agree with things all you'd like, but if you're not doing anything then you're just passively being pro-feminism.

[Kurosawa Fan]

To advocate means to publicly support. Do I march on city hall? No, but that doesn't mean I'm not a feminist. That doesn't mean I don't advocate. I'm publicly arguing with you right now. :P

[D_Davis]

And I know for a fact the K-Fan doesn't wear bras.

[Kurosawa Fan]

And I know for a fact the K-Fan doesn't wear bras.

I do wear a bro.

[Dukefrukem]

To advocate means to publicly support. Do I march on city hall? No, but that doesn't mean I'm not a feminist. That doesn't mean I don't advocate. I'm publicly arguing with you right now. :P

I'd argue that doesn't really count but whatever. No one reads MC but MC. Where else do you publicly preach about equal rights between men and women? Never seen it on your FB page. Hell I'm a feminist then because I support equal rights between men and women. There.

edit: that was a serious question though, I hope this didn't come off as flippant.

[D_Davis]

I either have to cut down on the beer, or start wearing spanks.

[D_Davis]

Hell I'm a feminist then because I support equal rights between men and women. There.

http://kellylowenstein.files.wordpres s.com/2009/06/bigsby.jpg

[Dukefrukem]

I do wear a bro.

You mean a mansierre.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'd argue that doesn't really count but whatever. No one reads MC but MC. Where else do you publicly preach about equal rights between men and women? Never seen it on your FB page. Hell I'm a feminist then because I support equal rights between men and women. There.

edit: that was a serious question though, I hope this didn't come off as flippant.

A question for you: how is posting something to my Facebook page a more effective means of advocacy?

To be fair, I'm not terribly politically active. That's to my detriment. However, just because I don't go out and protest what's happening in Ferguson, for example, doesn't mean I support the militarization of the police, or the racism that pervades our justice system. I would absolutely consider myself a feminist because in any opportunity to voice my opinion, I unequivocally support equal rights for women. If that's not advocating enough for you, well, that doesn't really concern me.

[D_Davis]

I may not post feminist things on Facebook, but I Up-Vote the shit out of feminist links on Reddit.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Being a feminist is supporting the ideology of equal rights between men and women. But it also includes actively demonstrating, promoting,and supporting that idea.

Winston* posted and then deleted a great question, and I'd like to know the answer, so I'm repeating it:

Based on the definition you posted above, what would lead you to hate feminists more than any other group? Or, to use your revised wording, "be annoyed by" feminists?

[bac0n]

Being a feminist is supporting the ideology of equal rights between men and women. But it also includes actively demonstrating, promoting,and supporting that idea. If you just sit back and agree with everything but don't do anything, that's just being pro feminism, not a feminist.

Okay, then that makes me both a feminist, and a pro-feminist. And I have been since, probably, before you could even spell. As a father of two girls, as a husband, and as a human being, I find it deeply disturbing that you would hate people who are actively demonstrating, promoting, and supporting this idea that women deserve equal rights and respect as men. Seriously man. That's some messed up shit.

[Dukefrukem]

Winston* posted and then deleted a great question, and I'd like to know the answer, so I'm repeating it:

Based on the definition you posted above, what would lead you to hate feminists more than any other group? Or, to use your revised wording, "be annoyed by" feminists?

Because they tend to get involved with things they have no business getting involved in. Shocking, I listen to the Howard Stern show. Or read Barstool Sports. And they are constantly trying to ban these things from existing because of the content these entertainment channels provide. I think the majority of people, including myself, want equal rights for women in areas that make sense; Salary, Power, Job Title, but wanting to rid the planet of everything because it doesn't align with what feminists believe should exists is unconstitutional. And to think they have any say in the matter is disingenuous or think that these things existing has a negative affect on Salary, Power or Job Title is fucking annoying.

[Dukefrukem]

Okay, then that makes me both a feminist, and a pro-feminist. And I have been since, probably, before you could even spell. As a father of two girls, as a husband, and as a human being, I find it deeply disturbing that you would hate people who are actively demonstrating, promoting, and supporting this idea that women deserve equal rights and respect as men. Seriously man. That's some messed up shit.

Catch up bacon.

[Dukefrukem]

A question for you: how is posting something to my Facebook page a more effective means of advocacy?

To be fair, I'm not terribly politically active. That's to my detriment. However, just because I don't go out and protest what's happening in Ferguson, for example, doesn't mean I support the militarization of the police, or the racism that pervades our justice system. I would absolutely consider myself a feminist because in any opportunity to voice my opinion, I unequivocally support equal rights for women. If that's not advocating enough for you, well, that doesn't really concern me.

It was just an argument to say that you really don't publicly advocate feminism since you're behind a pseudonym on MC and don't use your real name or go out during all these marches and protests. You can do whatever you want here, and you're still not a real feminist.

That's my argument.

[bac0n]

Catch up bacon.

sorry, missed that.

[Irish]

Whoa. Duke raises an interesting point. Personally, I think he's on to something.

I don't consider myself a feminist because in some level, it's not my fight. On another, I don't actively do anything about this particular cause (except to occasionally point out how fucked I think representation is in movies and tv).

So I think Duke might be right. I'm not sure it's legit to claim membership in an "ism" when you don't actively do anything for that "ism."

[Dukefrukem]

Well if I haven't segregated myself enough tonight and/or lost what little respect I had left here I'll finish the day on a final post that actually is relevant to the thread topic.

PS+ Games for Sept.


PS4
Velocity 2X
Sports Friends

PS3
Sports Friends
PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale
Hoard

Vita
Velocity 2X
PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale
Joe Danger
TxK

[Irish]

And to think they have any say in the matter is disingenuous or think that these things existing has a negative affect on Salary, Power or Job Title is fucking annoying.

One informs the other. You aren't going to get equal treatment in ways that matter when media constantly belittles and dehumanizes a specific group.

[D_Davis]

But he calls me a hipster all the time, and I'm like 40 years old and don't do anything hipstery. ;)

So if I can be a hipster without being a hipster...

[Irish]

You live in Seattle and I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of you wearing a knit cap.

You've earned the label. ;)

[D_Davis]

Shit, Seattle's totally corporate.

You're thinking of Portland. It's still 1995 there. I was there a few weeks ago, and I stumbled upon an illegal punk show in a public park. The cops came to break it up and everything. A punk show. In the park. Dozens of kids wearing real punk clothes, with mohawks and everything.

In 2014.

In Portland.

:)

[Scar]

66 new posts since I checked. Any good games coming out for the ps4....?

[megladon8]

Diablo 3 just came out, and it's apparently the definitive version of the game.

Also Destiny in 2 weeks!!

[megladon8]

And for the record I am a pro feminism feminist anti establishment corporophobic LGBT activist equal opportunity anti bullying advocate for the ethical treatment of animals, and I demand recognition.

[EyesWideOpen]

I missed a ton of fun today it looks like. Duke has me blocked so he won't see this but jesus Duke seriously.

And there is a huge difference between saying you hate hipsters and saying you hate feminists. A hipster is someone's personal style. A feminist is someone wanting equality between the sexes. Saying you hate feminists is like saying you hate people who are against apartheid. Every forward thinking person on this planet should consider themselves a feminist.

[Idioteque Stalker]

I got Diablo III and it was fun, but really in the end I could tell it wasn't my type of game. I took it back and am now booting up Madden 15, which is also not historically my type of game. Yay PS4!

[EyesWideOpen]

And on a gaming related note EA announced Peggle 2 is no longer Xbox One exclusive and comes out on PS4 on Oct 14th. I can't wait. I love Peggle.

[Dukefrukem]

I dont know why it took me this long, but I just realized Bill from the Last of Us is gay.

[Scar]

I've cracked out on Diablo 3 on the ps3, so I probably have my fill for awhile.

[Dukefrukem]

I've cracked out on Diablo 3 on the ps3, so I probably have my fill for awhile.

Did you get to Reaper of Souls?

[megladon8]

I dont know why it took me this long, but I just realized Bill from the Last of Us is gay.

Yeah I liked that they didn't make a big deal out of it. It's subtle, and also accepted by the other characters to the point where they don't mention/talk about it as if it's something weird.

[D_Davis]

If anyone is super board today, we're live streaming our game day now.

Twitch tv /dobervich

[megladon8]

Was that an intentional typo / pun?

[Scar]

Did you get to Reaper of Souls?
Nope. Just beat diablo on the top difficulty. Time to play with my car collection on GT5

I'll end up getting diablo 3 when I get the ps4. I'd like to try that new class.

[Idioteque Stalker]

Yeah, the porno mag in the cinematic before Philly is gay. "He was... my partner."

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, the porno mag in the cinematic before Philly is gay. "He was... my partner."

He also talks about his partner how he knew someone "like Tess".

[EyesWideOpen]

I've been playing the crap out of Diablo III on PS4. This is my first Diablo game and it's been a lot of fun. I bought it on launch day and am on Act 4 and level 42. I also finished up season 2 of The Walking Dead. Fantastic followup to the first season and will most definitely be in my favorite games of the year list.

[Scar]

I played Diablo 1 so many times with the same character, that I ended up dropping my weapons and beating Diablo to death barehanded on my final play through.

[Scar]

Oh shit, still have to do Walking Dead Season 2.

[Spun Lepton]

I realize I'm re-opening a can of worms, but I had to express my displeasure with Reddit's /r/videos forum allowing this kind of bullshit to go on. Note the heightened paranoia of the top-rated comment on the page. This post reached Reddit's front page.

http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/2f2c32/quinnspiracy_theory_white_cast les_and_ivory_towers/

[Scar]

Going to see if the guys want to play Gran Turismo 5 tonight after a few (numerous) beers. We'll do a random number selection for which car they drive for each race. I pity anyone who draws the Red Bull X2010. Ridiculous responsiveness and horse power. It'll carry a six drink minimum to drive, or a shot of tequila. That fuckers hard enough to drive sober.

[D_Davis]

Good lord. Those posters are full on paranoid conspiracy nuts. Holy shit.

[Milky Joe]

Did anybody actually watch the video there, or are you all just kneejerking in response to all the awful gamer manchildren who are themselves kneejerking?

This isn't a black and white issue. And please stop throwing around "conspiracy nut" as a pejorative.

[Irish]

Watch which video? FemFreq's or one of the responses?

Also, not sure how "conspiracy nut" can really be anything other than a pejorative. Do conspiracy nuts refer to themselves as nuts? (Asking as I go honesty don't know).

Edit: D'oh. I assume you meant the link Spun posted. Yeah, that's reddit for you. That video is 29 minutes long. I can usually only make it through about 3-4 minutes of the massive bullshit before I want to tear my hair out.

[Milky Joe]

I was referring to the Quinnspiracy video in the Reddit link that Spun posted. And for the record I like that latest Sarkeesian video a lot. I'm not some anti-woman dipshit like Duke. But the Indie Game Dev scene has become a pretty fucking gross circlejerk, if you ask me.

What I mean is that "conspiracy theorist," "conspiracy nut," "conspiracy freak," "paranoid," all of these generalizations used as pejoratives against anyone looking to dig below the surface of events should be done away with, especially post-Snowden. Conspiracy theorists are often the sanest people in the room.

[Irish]

I made it through 5 minutes and 51 seconds.

I don't know about conspiracy people in general-- but that video & the posters in the reddit thread are delusional.

Gaming press has always been a big circle jerk. That's how entertainment media works in this country. The vibe I get from a lot of he "protesters" is that they're teenagers who've had their naïveté shattered by discovering how the world actually works.

The Zoe Quinn angle is pure, slut-shaming misogyny. No way they raise this much of a stink about a guy who allegedly sleeps around and aggressively promotes his work. That dude would be a fucking Reddit hero. Not the center of some bullshit conspiracy theory and non-story story.

[Milky Joe]

a) No guy sleeps around to promote his work, because he doesn't have to, because he's a guy. b) The phrase "slut-shaming" in itself is misogynist (for why, see here (http://feministcurrent.com/6845/its-not-slut-shaming-its-woman-hating/)).

It has nothing to do with how many people Quinn slept with. She & her ilk are actually hurting the place of women in games by engaging in this cliquey, incestuous, sociopathic behavior. I'm not saying that there aren't hordes of misogynist men who are attacking her purely because she's a woman, but that's not how this started.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I16sawr5rN0

[Irish]

a) No guy sleeps around to promote his work, because he doesn't have to, because he's a guy.

That was my point. If we flip the genders around, this story would have no traction. Nobody cares who young guys sleep with. So why did it blow up now?


b) The phrase "slut-shaming" in itself is misogynist (for why, see here (http://feministcurrent.com/6845/its-not-slut-shaming-its-woman-hating/)).

Good link, thanks for that.


It has nothing to do with how many people Quinn slept with. She & her ilk are actually hurting the place of women in games by engaging in this cliquey, incestuous, sociopathic behavior. I'm not saying that there aren't hordes of misogynist men who are attacking her purely because she's a woman, but that's not how this started.

Yeah. I've heard rumblings that Quinn is a nutcase, but who cares? Name me one guy at the top of tech who isn't a borderline sociopath.

We can't argue over merits when women are literally bullied out of their homes by rape and death threats. There are no "sides" this.

[megladon8]

Oh man, had a pretty big "LOL" when reading an article about gamers petitioning From Software to rethink making "Bloodborne" a PS4 exclusive.

Specifically, PC gamers are stating that it is "their right" to get to play From's latest game, and if Miyazaki et al don't reconsider, they will organize a mass boycott of the game.

What a bunch of tools. It's a hoot to read stuff like this.

[EyesWideOpen]

We can't argue over merits when women are literally bullied out of their homes by rape and death threats. There are no "sides" to this.

1000x this.

[EyesWideOpen]

I finally dipped my feet into playing Mario Kart 8 online. I ended up playing like 50 races today. It's damn addictive. I ended up switching off Pink Gold Peach (who I was doing horrible with) and going with Toadette. I've gotten 1st place 4 or 5 times but usually end up around 4th or 5th.

[EyesWideOpen]

Some interesting Tokyo Game Show news:

Resident Evil Revelations 2 announced. If anyone remembers Revelations was the well received 3DS game that was then ported over to PS3/360/Wii U.

Persona 5 no longer just PS3 as it is now coming to PS4 also.

New Disgaea and Ys games coming to PS4

Dragon Quest Heroes (http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/09/01/dragon-quest-heroes-revealed-for-playstation-4) coming to PS4. It's more of an action RPG then the other games but they are releasing an awesome edition PS4 for it:

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc261/gothamcentral79/metal-slime-ps4_zps488f101f.jpg (http://s213.photobucket.com/user/gothamcentral79/media/metal-slime-ps4_zps488f101f.jpg.html)

And yes that metal slime is a part of it. It's a detachable USB cover.

Also Sony announced with the new firmware update we will finally be able to change the themes on the PS4.

[megladon8]

Reached Winter.

Why is Ellie able to dispatch clickers with a stab in the stomach, but Joel had to stab them in the brain and in the process would break his knife?

Is her knife made of Elven Geisteel or something? Maybe hers is a +1?

[megladon8]

So apparently penicillin is magic in a bottle.

[Dukefrukem]

Meg is the king of nitpicking.

[megladon8]

Meg is the king of nitpicking.

You only don't like it when it's a game you love:) Remember the air vents?


Anyway, beat it tonight. Here's how I'd break it down:

Story - 10
Acting - 10
Visuals - 10
Audio/Music - 10
Gameplay - 6

Incredible story. I'd love to see all the cinematically and story elements as one continuous movie.

It's just not a very fun game to play.

[Dukefrukem]

Did you even play Dues Ex?

[Dukefrukem]

Oh and I know some MCers didn't like this, but looks like I held out for good reason.

Beyond: Two Souls PS4 trophies emerge, Director's Cut reported

[number8]

I'm really excited about Cuphead.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm really excited about Cuphead.

Does this have a release date yet. Still "2015"?

[number8]

I don't think there's been any news since E3, but I just found out about/paid attention to it.

[megladon8]

Kinda weird that PS+ is already having to repeat its free games.

I would've thought the available library was big enough that we'd never see a repeated game.

[megladon8]

After the oppressive sadness of "The Last Of Us" I needed something a little cheerier.

Started the "Ratchet & Clank: Future" series.

Man, this is like playing a Saturday morning cartoon. Great fun.

[EyesWideOpen]

Kinda weird that PS+ is already having to repeat its free games.

I would've thought the available library was big enough that we'd never see a repeated game.

There hasn't been any repeat games other than back in the first year or so of PS+ when they were figuring it out what games are you talking about.

[megladon8]

There hasn't been any repeat games other than back in the first year or so of PS+ when they were figuring it out what games are you talking about.

"Playstation All Stars Battle Royale" is the game now.

It was one of the first PS+ free games I got, maybe back in January or February.

I remember it distinctly because it was awful, and I was so glad I hadn't paid for it.

[EyesWideOpen]

"Playstation All Stars Battle Royale" is the game now.

It was one of the first PS+ free games I got, maybe back in January or February.

I remember it distinctly because it was awful, and I was so glad I hadn't paid for it.

I just went through the list of all the PS+ games through January 2013 and it's not on the list. It's been on sale for like $3 but never free.

[Sven]

After the oppressive sadness of "The Last Of Us" I needed something a little cheerier.

Started the "Ratchet & Clank: Future" series.

Man, this is like playing a Saturday morning cartoon. Great fun.

I've been playing through the original trilogy again, getting all bolts and trophies, etc. Easily my favorite VG series of all time. Weapon system is brilliant.

[Dukefrukem]

Playstation Plus list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Instant_Game_Collectio n_games_(North_America)

[Gittes]

This is fantastic. I love the self-reflexivity and idiosyncrasies of this series. I came across this video of an apparently rarely accessed exchange in Metal Gear Solid. If you're playing the game using a mono television, you can initiate this very amusing codec conversation, where an array of characters express their wonderment at the player's antiquated hardware:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzG8Sty9veI

Hilarious. I love how the design of the game is so dense and intricate; it's teeming with details that still surprise gamers even after all of these years. I need to finally play it to completion. Metal Gear Solid 2 was one of my most memorable gaming experiences but, besides that one, the only other entry I've completed is Metal Gear Solid 4. The prospect of going through the first three sounds like a substantial commitment of time, but I'm definitely tempted.

[megladon8]

Ah maybe it was when it was 3 bucks or something.

[Dukefrukem]

This is fantastic. I love the self-reflexivity and idiosyncrasies of this series. I came across this video of an apparently rarely accessed exchange in Metal Gear Solid. If you're playing the game using a mono television, you can initiate this very amusing codec conversation, where an array of characters express their wonderment at the player's antiquated hardware:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzG8Sty9veI

Hilarious. I love how the design of the game is so dense and intricate; it's teeming with details that still surprise gamers even after all of these years. I need to finally play it to completion. Metal Gear Solid 2 was one of my most memorable gaming experiences but, besides that one, the only other entry I've completed is Metal Gear Solid 4. The prospect of going through the first three sounds like a substantial commitment of time, but I'm definitely tempted.

There's a similar dialog if you're playing without the rumble pad. When you fight the Mantis, you're supposed to put your controller down in front of you and the controller will vibrate. But if you don't have it, you'll get a codec call. I experienced both of these when playing MGS for the first time since I didn't have either.

MGS series is famous for breaking the fourth wall.

[Ezee E]

Missed a lot here.

I think PS4 is the way to go though. Still pondering if it's time to get it. I'll sell all things PS3 and just swap it out.

[Dukefrukem]

The PS3 is still valuable to me. There is currently no option to stream off my NAS with the PS4. My backlog of PS3 games is huge will always be huge so I might as well keep it hooked up until I thin the pile.

[megladon8]

Thoughts and opinions on the upcoming "Sunset Overdrive"?

Being a fan of Insomniac I am certainly intrigued.

[Dukefrukem]

It looks and plays like a re-branded InFamous.

[megladon8]

Hmmm I don't get that vibe from it at all.

Are we talking about the same game? Shooter coming out for XBone in November?