The Book Discussion Thread [Archive]

megladon8

11-02-2007, 01:23 AM

Marley,why is it taking you so long to read Atonement? Are you not enjoying it, or have you just not had the time to sit down and read a lot?

Me, I've been on quite the reading binge, which I'm sure most of you have noticed.

My last reading binge took me through a plethora of Stephen King novels, and various sci-fi/fantasy stuff.

This binge has had me going through a more literature-oriented trip, with the hopes of expanding my mind.

In the past few weeks I have read, in order...

"The Time Traveller's Wife" by Audrey Niffenegger
"The Infernal Desire Machines of Dr. Hoffman" by Angela Carter
"Atonement" by Ian McEwan
"Girlfriend in a Coma" by Douglas Coupland
"Galactic Pot Healer" by Philip K. Dick
"I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
"Sputnik Sweetheart" by Haruki Murakami

And I am currently 100 pages into "Love in the Time of Cholera" by Gabriel Garcia Marquez.

I'm enoying it a lot, and it reminds me quite a bit of what could arguably be my favorite book - Jane Austen's "Persuasion". At least the concept of losing one's love, then having the chance to win them back much later in life.

Marquez describes everything in delicious detail and is actually quite funny. I have to admit I'm finding it a bit of a tedious read - perhaps that isn't the right word, but what I mean is that it's not something I have been able to just fly through, like the last couple I have read. I have to put patience into each page and really read every word there, instead of skimming or speed-reading (which I seem to have acquired the skill for just recently).

monolith94

11-02-2007, 01:30 AM

Most recently finished the book Wolf By The Ears, a YA historical fiction novel that I wasn't terribly impressed by, for class. Sigh.

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 01:30 AM

Sometimes books that have to be read slowly, every sentence completely digested, those can be the best books. I love Cholera, and it's a great example of that.

megladon8

11-02-2007, 01:32 AM

Sometimes books that have to be read slowly, every sentence completely digested, those can be the best books. I love Cholera, and it's a great example of that.

Oh of course, I am not saying it's a bad thing at all.

I've just had to readjust my reading speed for it, after reading a few books in a row that were relatively light and quick.

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 01:34 AM

Oh of course, I am not saying it's a bad thing at all.

I've just had to readjust my reading speed for it, after reading a few books in a row that were relatively light and quick.

Understood. I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I read a pulpy detective novel, it's a bit difficult to transition into something with a bit more... substance.

megladon8

11-02-2007, 01:36 AM

Understood. I know exactly what you mean. Whenever I read a pulpy detective novel, it's a bit difficult to transition into something with a bit more... substance.

Speaky of detective novels, did you see my post in the old forum's book thread - made 2 days ago I believe - about that company Millipede Press?

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 01:41 AM

Speaky of detective novels, did you see my post in the old forum's book thread - made 2 days ago I believe - about that company Millipede Press?

Sure did. Those covers are fantastic. I'll definitely be checking them out.

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 02:02 AM

i'm reading some magician's biography. pretty meh stuff, although i am an affecinado of the subject, so i can tolerate that.

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 02:03 AM

Fantastic av. I love it.

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 02:19 AM

will this thread be popular enough to get its own room? pretty please. :p

SpaceOddity

11-02-2007, 06:45 AM

I'm starting The Phantom of the Opera.

*exiles song from mind*

ledfloyd

11-02-2007, 06:46 AM

i got about 30 pages left in jonathan lethem's the fortress of solitude. shaping up to be one of my favorite recent books. i could see myself reading this one over and over like kavalier and clay.

love in the time of cholera is one of my all time favorite novels.

i read atonement recently. the first section i thought was pretty droll. the second section was pretty good. the third section was pretty great. and the epilogue was pretty awesome. i'm not sure what that all adds up to.

SpaceOddity

11-02-2007, 06:54 AM

Fave books everyone?

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 07:01 AM

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/~nielsenw/images/unbearable.jpg

SpaceOddity

11-02-2007, 07:03 AM

http://www.chss.montclair.edu/~nielsenw/images/unbearable.jpg

*demands top twenty* :p

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 07:11 AM

also how's about favorite cover?

http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/edoc/ia/eese/artic97/mohr/mohr8.jpg

actually penguin has a newer edition with an even more beautiful cover.

and this cover changes my life.

http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/classics/russian/nabokov/lolita.gif

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 07:18 AM

*demands top twenty* :p

to tell you the truth, i've never think of that. i can quite easily say top five.

1. The Unbearable Lightness of Being
2. Lolita
3. The Sea, the Sea
4. The Infernal Desire Machine of Doctor Hoffman
5. The Name of The Rose

but anything beyond this, i probably have a hard time ranking.

Lucky

11-02-2007, 07:26 AM

I'm halfway through Into the Wild and I still don't know how to feel about the protagonist yet. I completely agree with the author's note at the beginning, I just don't know which way I'm leaning yet. Interesting case, nonetheless.

SpaceOddity

11-02-2007, 07:39 AM

My fave cover...

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1175/scan0015tk9jr3.jpg

Saya

11-02-2007, 10:19 AM

I picked up Cormac McCarthy's The Road and JPod by Douglas Coupland today.

I've heard good things about The Road, but has anyone read JPod?

monolith94

11-02-2007, 02:29 PM

also how's about favorite cover?

http://realitystudio.org/images/bibliographic_bunker/cities_of_the_red_night/cities_of_the_red_night.front. jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/WesternLands.jpg

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 03:08 PM

those covers are hot damn! they just don't do it like they used to.

Spinal

11-02-2007, 03:16 PM

Books I'm Reading:
The Cement Garden - Ian McEwan

Nice. I know I've mentioned it before, but I like this one a lot.

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 03:23 PM

Nice. I know I've mentioned it before, but I like this one a lot.

I haven't started it yet, but it'll be the next book I read. I should have time tonight.

D_Davis

11-02-2007, 04:09 PM

I finished Dick's first book this morning, Solar Lottery. It's pretty good. Definitely a first book, as it suffers from on-the-nose dialog and it looses track of many of the great concepts he sets up in the first half, but it is still pretty good.

Next up I am going to re-read The Demolished Man, by Alfred Bester, and then the new Lansdale collection, Lord of the Razor.

Spinal

11-02-2007, 04:12 PM

I haven't started it yet, but it'll be the next book I read. I should have time tonight.

It's a quick read too. I don't remember how long it took me, but I don't think it was more than 2 or 3 days.

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 04:14 PM

Next up I am going to re-read The Demolished Man, by Alfred Bester, and then the new Lansdale collection, Lord of the Razor.

anything to do with stallone's movie? ;)

D_Davis

11-02-2007, 04:25 PM

anything to do with stallone's movie? ;)

Nope! :)

It's a collection of some of Lansdale's earliest horror short stories that have been long out of print. It contains his novella, The Nightrunners, which is often cited as one of the best horror stories ever written. I've never read it before and I am really looking forward to it. Lansdale is in a class all by himself when it comes to prose, plot, and gripping narratives.

megladon8

11-02-2007, 04:48 PM

Is this the other cover you were referring to, lovejuice?

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51VM71XDJXL._SS500_.jpg

monolith94

11-02-2007, 04:53 PM

those covers are hot damn! they just don't do it like they used to.
Well, not many paint like Breughel anymore...

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 05:57 PM

Is this the other cover you were referring to, lovejuice?

actually i'm referring to this

http://perso.orange.fr/andrew.milne/Image11.gif

somehow i'm not sure anymore if it's an actual cover, since i've never seen it anywhere except in her unofficial website.

Watashi

11-02-2007, 06:06 PM

Considering I'm around books all day, I'm probably going to read a lot more (I can use Borders like a library anytime).

I'm thinking about reading Life of Pi.

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 06:11 PM

Considering I'm around books all day, I'm probably going to read a lot more (I can use Borders like a library anytime).

I'm thinking about reading Life of Pi.

That would be a brilliant place to start. I've grown to love that book more and more since I finished.

monolith94

11-02-2007, 07:00 PM

What I've read in 2007 so far:

Books read in 2007:

A Storm of Swords - George R. R. Martin
A Feast For Crows –George R. R. Martin
Teacher Man – Ian McEwan
The Mote In God’s Eye – Larry Niven & Pourelle
Good Life, Good Death – Gehlek Rimpoche
Dreams - C.G. Jung
The Horse & His Boy – C.S. Lewis
Voyage of the Dawn Treader – C.S. Lewis
The Silver Chair – C.S. Lewis
The Hellenistic Age – Peter Green
Paradigms Lost – John Simon
The Complete Illustrated Book of Yoga – Swami Vishnu-Devananda
Shadow of the Torturer – Gene Wolfe
Galactic Pot-Healer – Philip K. Dick
Claw of the Conciliator – Gene Wolfe
The Twenty Greatest Philosophy Books - James Garvey
Dreamers of Dreams – John Simon
Sword of the Lictor – Gene Wolfe
Citadel of the Autarch – Gene Wolfe
Dumbing Down: Essays on the Strip-Mining of American Culture
Venus In Furs – Leopold Von Sacher-Masoch
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows- J.K. Rowling
Written on the Body – Jeanette Winterson
Meetings With Remarkable Men – G.I. Gurdjieff
I Heard the Owl Call My Name – Margaret Craven
The Chocolate War – Robert Cormier
Beyond the Chocolate War – Robert Cormier
Wolf By The Ears – Ann Rinaldi

Abandoned books in 2007
Eva – Peter Dickinson (just not very engaging)

Sycophant

11-02-2007, 08:14 PM

Last night, I set up what will be my reading schedule probably through January. I finished Gaiman's American Gods and loved it. So, I've started on Plato's dialogues today and will start Wicked over the weekend.

jenniferofthejungle

11-02-2007, 08:24 PM

Has anyone read Darkly Dreaming Dexter? Is it worth a blind buy?

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 08:50 PM

Has anyone read Darkly Dreaming Dexter? Is it worth a blind buy?

It was terrible. And you know how much I love Dexter. I almost didn't finish it. Grab it from the library if you can't resist reading it.

jenniferofthejungle

11-02-2007, 08:53 PM

It was terrible. And you know how much I love Dexter. I almost didn't finish it. Grab it from the library if you can't resist reading it.

I just removed it from my amazon shopping cart and added it to my library queue. :D

Kurosawa Fan

11-02-2007, 08:54 PM

I just removed it from my amazon shopping cart and added it to my library queue. :D

:D

You won't regret it. I'm not the only fan of the show who thought the book was terrible. I lent it to a friend and he had the exact same complaints I had.

lovejuice

11-02-2007, 10:10 PM

Considering I'm around books all day, I'm probably going to read a lot more (I can use Borders like a library anytime).

I'm thinking about reading Life of Pi.

i know you can find all sorts of weirdo here, but i can't imagine anyone not liking this book. :p

Sycophant

11-02-2007, 10:16 PM

Considering I'm around books all day, I'm probably going to read a lot more (I can use Borders like a library anytime).Can you really? When I worked at Borders, despite the fact that our mall was on the verge of closing and our traffic was pretty much nill (seriously, I could work a six hour shift and ring five transactions), my store manager prohibited all of us from doing all reading of all kinds. And she'd essentially pace around the store, on the prowl for any ne'er-do-wells who might be brushing up on their Sophocles. So, I spent a lot of time either covertly trying to read Aesop's fables in chunk with one eye on the book and one eye surveying any approaching shapes, or simply behind my till, staring straight forward.

jenniferofthejungle

11-02-2007, 10:34 PM

Can you really? When I worked at Borders, despite the fact that our mall was on the verge of closing and our traffic was pretty much nill (seriously, I could work a six hour shift and ring five transactions), my store manager prohibited all of us from doing all reading of all kinds. And she'd essentially pace around the store, on the prowl for any ne'er-do-wells who might be brushing up on their Sophocles. So, I spent a lot of time either covertly trying to read Aesop's fables in chunk with one eye on the book and one eye surveying any approaching shapes, or simply behind my till, staring straight forward.

I'd resent any employee perving a book before I got to it.

jenniferofthejungle

11-02-2007, 10:42 PM

:D

You won't regret it. I'm not the only fan of the show who thought the book was terrible. I lent it to a friend and he had the exact same complaints I had.

I trust you. ;)

I have started to read The Chronicles of Narnia (I'm following a strict order here) and any new books will have to wait. I'm hoping to do one a day and I noticed the only way I can get any reading done is if I turn the computer off. It isn't enough to log off anymore, I've got to shut it down completely.

I can't plan to read any specific books because everything depends on my mood. If I'm feeling particularly low I have to stay away from melodrama or I'll spend the rest of the day sighing dramatically. :D

Duncan

11-02-2007, 10:43 PM

I didn't like Life of Pi. I thought it relied far too heavily on its ending to make its point, and then didn't even argue it effectively.

ledfloyd

11-03-2007, 12:44 AM

favorite books?

The Adventures of Kavalier and Clay
If on a winter's night a traveler
Lolita
Pale Fire
Breakfast of Champions
Jitterbug Perfume
House of Leaves

i think that's good.

lovejuice

11-03-2007, 12:50 AM

I didn't like Life of Pi. I thought it relied far too heavily on its ending to make its point, and then didn't even argue it effectively.

ah yes i remember we had this discussion before. i on the other hand think the ending is actually the weakest part. perhaps depend on how you interpret martel's "point." i actually think that ending defeats the whole purpose of life of pi.

D_Davis

11-03-2007, 12:56 AM

Favorite books?

Hmmm....if I had to pick some off the top of my head...

Days of Life and Death and a Trip to the Moon - William Saroyan
A Scanner Darkly - PKD
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch - PKD
A Thin Red Line - Joe R. Lansdale
Wolves of the Calla - Stephen King
White Light - Rudy Rucker
The Science Fiction Short Stories of J.G. Ballard
The Demolished Man - Alfred Bester

Sycophant

11-03-2007, 01:00 AM

Just rattling off what comes to mind:

A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
Take the Cannoli by Sarah Vowell
No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie
The 500 Hats of Bartholomew Cubbins by Dr. Seuss
The Remains of the Day by Kazuo Ishiguro
The Trial by Franz Kafka
Monkey/Journey to the West by Wu Cheng-En
The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain
The Odyssey by Homer (Robert Fagles translation FTW!)

D_Davis

11-03-2007, 01:04 AM

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain

I can't remember if I like this, or Tom Sawyer more, but I need to re-read both because it has been years since I've done so.

Sycophant

11-03-2007, 01:18 AM

I can't remember if I like this, or Tom Sawyer more, but I need to re-read both because it has been years since I've done so.Pathetically, I haven't actually read Tom Sawyer.

D_Davis

11-03-2007, 01:21 AM

Pathetically, I haven't actually read Tom Sawyer.

Well, I haven't read either of them since I was in junior high. I went on a big Twain kick a few years ago, but I only read his non-fiction.

megladon8

11-03-2007, 01:46 AM

I have some favorites, but I am not very well-read - that is to say, I haven't read nearly as many of the "classics" as I would like to have, and I haven't read a lot of modern lit. either...I guess all in all I just haven't read tons of books.

But some favorites of all time would include...

"Persuasion" by Jane Austen
"I Am Legend" by Richard Matheson
"'Salem's Lot" by Stephen King
"Cat's Cradle" by Kurt Vonnegut
"Atonement" by Ian McEwan
"Great Expectations" by Charles Dickens
"Ender's Game" by Orson Scott Card
"Crime and Punishment" by Theodor Dostoyevsky

...yeh that's pretty much all I can think of at the moment.

D_Davis

11-03-2007, 02:48 AM

I have some favorites, but I am not very well-read - that is to say, I haven't read nearly as many of the "classics" as I would like to have, and I haven't read a lot of modern lit. either...I guess all in all I just haven't read tons of books.

I think that being "well read" and reading the "classics" are not the same thing. From what I've read of your posts, you've probably read far more of the "classics" than I have, but I consider my self pretty well read.

SpaceOddity

11-03-2007, 08:59 AM

I have an excess of favourites. It took effort to reduce them to 30.
*shakes fist at effort*

Henry James - The Wings of the Dove,
Antoine De Saint-Exupery - The Little Prince,
Emily Bronte - Wuthering Heights,
Marguerite Duras - The Ravishing of Lol Stein,
Edith Wharton - The House of Mirth,
Borges - Dreamtigers,
Oscar Wilde's Fairytales,
George Eliot - Daniel Deronda,
C.S. Lewis - The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe,
Dodie Smith - I Capture the Castle,
Virginia Woolf- Orlando,
Thomas Hardy - Tess of the D'Ubervilles,
Boris Pasternak - Doctor Zhivago,
J.M. Barrie - Peter Pan (the novel),
Andre Gide - Strait is the Gate,
C.S. Lewis - Till We Have Faces,
Laclos - Les Liaisons Dangereuses,
E. Nesbit - The Phoenix and the Carpet,
Lermontov - A Hero of our Time,
Nancy Mitford - The Pursuit of Love,
Salman Rushdie - The Ground Beneath her Feet,
Elizabeth Gaskell - North and South,
Simone de Beauvoir - All Men are Mortal,
Evelyn Waugh - Brideshead Revisited,
Victor Hugo - The Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Graham Greene - The End of the Affair,
John Masefield - The Box of Delights,
Angela Carter - The Infernal Desire Machines of Doctor Hoffman,
Zola - Nana,
Haruki Murakami - Sputnik Sweetheart

Llopin

11-03-2007, 09:26 AM

So I was at History of Literature class the other day and suddenly the teacher started raving about J.M. Coetzee for no apparent reason, who acording to her is the best english contemporary writer (still alive and working). Encouraged also by one of my classmates, I decided to check out "Age of Iron" and so far it's mostly interesting. Any other suggestions?

Also, a few days ago I read Henry Miller's "Opus Pistorum". The fun...

Kurosawa Fan

11-03-2007, 12:54 PM

Kurosawa Fan

11-03-2007, 01:40 PM

Ooh, I love the "favorite books" question. Here's my brief list:

Crime and Punishment by Doestoevsky
A Confederacy of Dunces by Toole
Lolita by Nabokov
The Power and the Glory by Greene
Atonement by McEwan
Go Tell it on the Mountain by Baldwin
Blankets by Thompson
Life of Pi by Martel
The Road by McCarthy
Slaughterhouse-Five by Vonnegut
Chronicle of a Death Foretold by Marquez
High Fidelity by Hornby
The Screwtape Letters by Lewis
1984 by Orwell
Catch-22 by Heller
The Bell Jar by Plath
'Salems Lot by King
Ham on Rye by Bukowski
Me Talk Pretty One Day by Sedaris
East of Eden by Steinbeck

I don't know how many books that is, but those are the first books to pop into my head.

lovejuice

11-03-2007, 04:50 PM

I really liked Coetzee's Disgrace. I certainly wouldn't put him anywhere near the best English contemporary writers based on that novel, but it's worth reading for sure. It's a book of settings though. It's a much better book when the protagonist is at school than it is when he's visiting his daughter at her farm.

i totally agree with your last statement. only difference is i think the second half hurts the book more than you do. in fact i only consider the whole thing mediocre. last week i picked up foe from the bookstore, and after finishing it i might be able to better judge coetzee.

SpaceOddity

11-03-2007, 04:52 PM

*unawed by Coetzee's Disgrace*

Mysterious Dude

11-03-2007, 06:18 PM

My list of favorites is very short right now.

The Stranger (Camus)
Nineteen Eighty-Four (Orwell)
The Catcher in the Rye (Salinger)
Things Fall Apart (Achebe)

I expect this list to grow considerably over the next few years, but right now, I'm getting bogged down by Marcel Proust.

Kurosawa Fan

11-03-2007, 06:23 PM

The Catcher in the Rye (Salinger)

I can't believe I left this off my list. I'm ashamed.

lovejuice

11-03-2007, 06:59 PM

Things Fall Apart (Achebe)

want to contemplate? i definitely don't like it as much as you do, although i appreciate the book to some degree. as far as the story about a fallen man goes, i feel like achebe rushes up near the end. i can't really see the main character do, you know, that thing that he does which i can't say...where the heck is spoiler tag!?

Mysterious Dude

11-03-2007, 08:42 PM

want to contemplate? i definitely don't like it as much as you do, although i appreciate the book to some degree. as far as the story about a fallen man goes, i feel like achebe rushes up near the end. i can't really see the main character do, you know, that thing that he does which i can't say...where the heck is spoiler tag!?
I like the "rushed" style. I see it simply as the African way of telling a story, being very to-the-point and lacking the density and minute details of the European style which we may be more familiar with. A Long Way Gone has kind of a similar style in that regard.

Okonkwo's choice at the end certainly was abrupt, but I think I could understand it, after he had seen his civilization destroyed so easily before his very eyes, and watched his family and brethren submit to the outsiders.

SpaceOddity

11-03-2007, 09:07 PM

So... "The Phantom of the Opera" is crap in all mediums.
And this is from a girl who always coveted kidnapping from a guy with a transcendent voice.
*thwarted*

Benny Profane

11-03-2007, 10:10 PM

Favorite Books without repeating authors:

One Hundred Years of Solitude -- Marquez
Crime and Punishment -- Dostoevsky
Ham on Rye -- Bukowski
The Master and Margarita -- Bulgakov
Go Tell it on the Mountain -- Baldwin
V. -- Thomas Pynchon
The Sound and the Fury -- Faulkner
1984 -- Orwell
East of Eden -- Steinbeck
War and Peace -- Tolstoy
The Heart is a Lonely Hunter -- McCullers
Herzog -- Bellow
Slaughterhouse Five -- Vonnegut
Under the Banner of Heaven -- Krakauer
Darkness at Noon -- Koestler
A Handful of Dust -- Waugh
Tender is the Night -- Fitzgerald
The Road -- McCarthy
Rabbit, Run -- Updike
Nostromo -- Conrad
Catch 22 -- Heller
Atonement -- McEwan
The Remains of the Day -- Ishiguro
A Confederacy of Dunces -- Toole
The Fountainhead -- Rand
The Stranger -- Camus

Kurosawa Fan

11-03-2007, 10:11 PM

Chico?

D_Davis

11-04-2007, 02:46 AM

megladon8

11-04-2007, 02:53 AM

Today I bought:

The Maltese Falcon - Dashiell Hammett
Red Harvest - Dashiel Hammett
More than Human - Theodore Sturgeon

and I found an old vintage copy of Deus Irae - Philip K. Dick and Roger Zelanzy

Nice...is the Sturgeon book one that you've read before?

I recently got "Some of Your Blood".

D_Davis

11-04-2007, 03:06 AM

Nice...is the Sturgeon book one that you've read before?

No - I've only read The Dreaming Jewels and some of his short stories. I've heard that More Than Human is brilliant though - some people put it up there with Bester's The Demolished Man as a premier example of literary sci-fi.

I just ordered the first collection of Sturgeon's short stories. There are 11 collections available, each around 400 pages long. I think I am prepared to dive head first into Sturgeon's work, and I am glad he left us with a large body of great material.

You posted the cover for Some of Your Blood, right? I think that is what sparked my memory today when I was in the book store. I couldn't think of what to look for, but then the name "Sturgeon" flashed into my mind.

Hey meg, you may want to check out this site:

The Internet Speculative Fiction Database

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/index.cgi

It's pretty awesome.

Duncan

11-04-2007, 03:40 AM

My favorites would go something like:

Walden - Thoreau
A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man - Joyce
The Brothers Karamazov - Dostoevsky
On the Road - Kerouac
Dune - Herbert
Thus Spoke Zarathustra - Nietzsche
Fifth Business - Davies
In the Skin of a Lion - Ondaatje
The Lorax - Dr. Seuss
Catcher in the Rye - Salinger
Moby Dick - Melville
Slaughterhouse-Five - Vonnegut
The Stranger - Camus
Fear and Trembling - Kierkegaard

That's what comes to mind immediately.

lovejuice

11-04-2007, 05:53 AM

My favorites would go something like:
Fifth Business - Davies

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...di d you read other books in the series? albeit fifth business is the best, the other two are worth checking out as well. davies is fast becoming another favorite writer of mine. anybody must read his collection of ghost stories.

to me, he is very mythical. i know i like him, but can't ever put my finger down what exactly in his style that enchants me.

lovejuice

11-04-2007, 05:56 AM

I like the "rushed" style. I see it simply as the African way of telling a story, being very to-the-point and lacking the density and minute details of the European style which we may be more familiar with. A Long Way Gone has kind of a similar style in that regard.

Okonkwo's choice at the end certainly was abrupt, but I think I could understand it, after he had seen his civilization destroyed so easily before his very eyes, and watched his family and brethren submit to the outsiders.

i want to check out more of his stuffs. which one do you recommend?

Duncan

11-04-2007, 06:05 AM

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...di d you read other books in the series? albeit fifth business is the best, the other two are worth checking out as well. davies is fast becoming another favorite writer of mine. anybody must read his collection of ghost stories.

to me, he is very mythical. i know i like him, but can't ever put my finger down what exactly in his style that enchants me.
I've also read The Manticore. I liked that one a lot as well, but thought it got caught up too much in its Jungian psychology. Whereas the integration of saints in Fifth Business works on that mythical level you're talking about, the Jungian archetypes in The Manticore were more analytical. The melancholy is still there, but not the miraculousness that pervades Fifth Business.

For other posters, I really can't recommend Fifth Business enough. Robertson Davies is Canadian and doesn't get a ton of international attention, but he definitely deserves it.

soitgoes...

11-04-2007, 06:08 AM

I expect this list to grow considerably over the next few years, but right now, I'm getting bogged down by Marcel Proust.
How much Proust have you read? I've considered starting In Search of Lost Time, but I just can't seem to build up the courage to undertake something so daunting.

lovejuice

11-04-2007, 06:23 AM

I've also read The Manticore. I liked that one a lot as well, but thought it got caught up too much in its Jungian psychology. Whereas the integration of saints in Fifth Business works on that mythical level you're talking about, the Jungian archetypes in The Manticore were more analytical. The melancholy is still there, but not the miraculousness that pervades Fifth Business.

right on with manticore. won't really recommend you world of wonder though since it's the weakest link. unless of course you are a completist, or have a strong desire to know who killed boy stauston. (drum rolling.) not a bad read, just too long. besides eisengrim's probably my least favorite character which is strange because by trade he should be the most interesting one. i like lisle, but the last book doesn't really do justice to her.

i own lyre of orpheus and will read it some day.

ledfloyd

11-04-2007, 07:35 AM

i somehow forgot Crime and Punishment, The Stranger, Tender is the Night, and Love in the Time of Cholera, among others I'm sure.

SpaceOddity

11-04-2007, 11:23 AM

I've also read The Manticore. I liked that one a lot as well, but thought it got caught up too much in its Jungian psychology. Whereas the integration of saints in Fifth Business works on that mythical level you're talking about, the Jungian archetypes in The Manticore were more analytical. The melancholy is still there, but not the miraculousness that pervades Fifth Business.

For other posters, I really can't recommend Fifth Business enough. Robertson Davies is Canadian and doesn't get a ton of international attention, but he definitely deserves it.

From those of his I read I favoured The Rebel Angels.
*nods*

Mysterious Dude

11-04-2007, 02:07 PM

How much Proust have you read? I've considered starting In Search of Lost Time, but I just can't seem to build up the courage to undertake something so daunting.
I've read only Combray so far (the first half of Swann's Way). It's not that it's bad, but I'm seriously considering moving on to something else. I'm interested in the family relationships, but Proust spends way too much time talking about architecture and flowers.

SpaceOddity

11-04-2007, 03:50 PM

I've read only Combray so far (the first half of Swann's Way). It's not that it's bad, but I'm seriously considering moving on to something else. I'm interested in the family relationships, but Proust spends way too much time talking about architecture and flowers.

I enjoyed Swann's Way. Was kinda like being enveloped in borrowed nostalgia.

Orlando

11-04-2007, 03:59 PM

3. The Sea, the Sea Damn, I can't count how many times I've walked around a bookstore with this in my hand and last minute put it back.

*puts it on "to read next" list*

Orlando

11-04-2007, 04:04 PM

*unawed by Coetzee's Disgrace*

*chuckles*

How I've missed you 'round these parts! :)

Lucky

11-04-2007, 05:39 PM

For other posters, I really can't recommend Fifth Business enough. Robertson Davies is Canadian and doesn't get a ton of international attention, but he definitely deserves it.

I just looked this up and I'm intrgued. I haven't been disappointed by a book reccomendation from this place yet, so I'm putting it next on my list.

SpaceOddity

11-04-2007, 09:27 PM

I just looked this up and I'm intrgued. I haven't been disappointed by a book reccomendation from this place yet, so I'm putting it next on my list.

*votes Rebel Angels*

D_Davis

11-04-2007, 11:50 PM

Solar Lottery (1955) - Philip K. Dick

Ted Bentley is a loyal company man, and he's just lost his job. Disillusioned with his station in life, he travels to one of the directorate Hills and swears fealty to Reese Verrick, the Quizmaster, the supreme ruler of the universe. Unfortunately for Bentley, seconds after his fealty-pledge is complete, the bottle twitches and Verrick is removed from power, replaced by Quizmaster Cartwright. When Verrick leaves his position of power, he takes with him all those who have pledged fealty to him, they are his subjects, he is their lord, their protector. Pledging loyalty to a person might grant the serf more rewards, but if Bentley had, instead, pledged loyalty to the general Quizmaster position he would at least still have a government job. Now he finds himself the pawn in the M-game, a game of probability and statistics, assassination and telepaths.

In order to combat the rampant telepathic abilities of the populace, the universe in Dick's Solar Lottery, is governed by randomness. Promotions, luxuries, necessities, it's all dispersed in random fashion, a grand, universal lottery system. Because the telepaths are able to “teep” the outcome of rational and probable events, extreme randomness and uncertainty is injected into every-day living. While the government sees this randomness as a rational solution to the telepath problem, and even uses a Corp of telepaths to help predict the outcome of these random twitches, it has inadvertently fostered an irrational society, one that relies heavily upon good luck charms, ignorant pledges of loyalty in which the serfs bank on the luck of their chosen lord, and extreme social isolation.

Solar Lottery is Dick's first published book, and it shows. While the ideas contained within are bright and imaginative, the young author has trouble keeping everything in its place. Some might argue that Dick suffered from similar problems on subsequent novels, but here his gonzo style makes things a bit too difficult to follow, and he looses track of more than a few sub-plots. Sometimes a lost sub-plot can be forgiven, but here Dick choses to end the book on one with little-to-no relevance to anything that has come before. This is a total shame because the previous hundred or so pages are quite thrilling. While later in his career Dick would learn to juggle the multitude of characters with which his books are populated, in Solar Lottery he fails to give too many of the characters enough time for the reader to gage their importance and personalties.

I don't mean to be too harsh on Dick here. There are some great things to recommend in Solar Lottery. It is clearly a blue-print for the later work of Masmune Shirow, and while reading the book I couldn't help but flash onto images of Black Magic M-66 and Ghost in the Shell. While I have never thought of PKD as a cyberpunk author, it is easy to see that his work helped to shape that genre's conventions. With a group of characters who jack in to a Matrix-like construct, taking turns controlling the body of an unwilling android, and a plot that deals with minmax probability and world-spanning corporations vying for political power, Dick's work here has clearly influenced the work of William Gibson and Neal Stephenson.

I recommend this book only to those who have already taken the plunge into PKD's world. While there are some interesting things going on underneath the book's surface, there just isn't enough good material beyond the book's historical context. I think it is always a good idea to trace an artist's roots, to see where he has been, so one might gain further insight into his other works. In this light, I appreciate the time I spent with Solar Lottery even if I didn't fully enjoy the novel itself.

Melville

11-05-2007, 03:14 AM

Favorites:

1. Moby Dick, Herman Melville, 1851
2. The Brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky, 1880
3. Being & Time, Heidegger, 1927
4. Ulysses, James Joyce, 1922
5. Notes from Underground, Dostoevsky, 1864
6. The Sound and the Fury, Faulkner, 1929
7. Crime and Punishment, Dostoevsky, 1866
8. Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain, 1885
9. Hunger, Knut Hamsun, 1890
10. Ficciones, Jorge Luis Borges, 1944
11. Jacques the Fatalist, Denis Diderot, 1796
12. Heart of Darkness, Joseph Conrad, 1902
13. The Trial, Franz Kafka, 1922
14. Catch-22, Joseph Heller, 1960
15. Tristram Shandy, Laurence Sterne, 1767
16. Pan, Hamsun, 1894
17. The Crocodile, Dostoevsky, 1865
18. The Outsider, Camus, 1942
19. The Seducer’s Diary, Kierkegaard, 1843
20. The Bacchae, Euripides, 406 BC
21. The Lord of the Rings, J. R. R. Tolkien, 1954
22. Nausea, Jean-Paul Sartre, 1938
23. Lolita, Nabokov, 1955
24. Hamlet, Shakespeare, 1600
25. The Double, Dostoevsky, 1846
26. The Good Soldier, Ford Maddox Ford, 1914
27. Pierre, or the Ambiguities, Herman Melville, 1852
28. Madame Bovary, Flaubert, 1857
29. King James Bible: Ecclesiastes the Preacher, 250 BC
30. The Rubaiyat, Omar Khayyam (trans. E. Fitzgerald), 1120 (1859)
31. Great Expectations, Charles Dickens, 1861
32. 1984, George Orwell, 1949
33. As I Lay Dying, William Faulkner, 1930
34. Mrs. Dalloway, Virginia Woolf, 1924
35. The Great Gatsby, F. Scott Fitzgerald, 1925
36. The Lovesong of J. Alfred Prufrock, T.S. Eliot, 1917
37. The Aeneid, Virgil (trans. Dryden), 19 BC (1697)
38. A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man, James Joyce, 1914
39. Lord of the Flies, William Golding, 1952
40. Collected Stories of H. P. Lovecraft, 1917-1935
41. A Christmas Carol, Dickens, 1843
42. Medea, Euripides, 431 BC
43. Season of Migration to the North, Salih, 1966
44. Darkness at Noon, Arthur Koestler, 1940
45. The Blithedale Romance, Nathaniel Hawthorne, 1852

megladon8

11-05-2007, 03:46 AM

That's a great write-up, D.

It sounds interesting, but I do think I will wait and read that one later. I still have "VALIS" on my shelf, and I would like to read some stuff like "Martian Time-Slip", "Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said", "The Man in the High Castle", "Vulcan's Hammer"...the list goes on :D

D_Davis

11-05-2007, 03:53 AM

Duncan

11-05-2007, 03:54 AM

Favorites:

10. Ficciones, Jorge Luis Borges, 1944 I just bought his collected fictions yesterday. I'm pretty sure it includes every piece of fiction he wrote. I haven't read anything by him yet.

13. The Trial, Franz Kafka, 1922
Forgot about this one. Definitely on my list as well.

Melville

11-05-2007, 04:00 AM

I just bought his collected fictions yesterday. I'm pretty sure it includes every piece of fiction he wrote. I haven't read anything by him yet.

If it's the same edition that I have, then it's divided up into the different collections that were published independently. Everything in Ficciones is amazing. The other collections are pretty good, but they pale in comparison.

megladon8

11-05-2007, 04:04 AM

lovejuice

11-05-2007, 04:16 AM

How do people on here feel about Samuel Beckett?

I have had two good friends from class harping on and on about his trilogy of "Molloy", "Mallone Dies" and "The Unnamable" - both saying it was one of the best things they'd ever read.

i only watched godot which i find inspiring. but when it comes to absurdist playwright, i prefer albee. never read his novels or shorts though.

Duncan

11-05-2007, 04:39 AM

If it's the same edition that I have, then it's divided up into the different collections that were published independently. Everything in Ficciones is amazing. The other collections are pretty good, but they pale in comparison.

That sounds like mine. Penguin Classics Deluxe Edition is what I bought. Seemed like a good deal.

Spinal

11-05-2007, 05:10 AM

My favorite Beckett play is Endgame. Deeply poignant, funny and sad all at once. The Beckett on Film DVD set is outstanding.

SpaceOddity

11-05-2007, 06:06 AM

Duncan

11-05-2007, 07:01 AM

If it's the same edition that I have, then it's divided up into the different collections that were published independently. Everything in Ficciones is amazing. The other collections are pretty good, but they pale in comparison. Oh yeah, I noticed that The Idiot wasn't on you list. That was next for me as far as Dostoevsky goes. Since there are so many by him on there, I was wondering if you felt it was inferior, or just haven't read it yet.

SpaceOddity

11-05-2007, 07:15 AM

Oh yeah, I noticed that The Idiot wasn't on you list. That was next for me as far as Dostoevsky goes. Since there are so many by him on there, I was wondering if you felt it was inferior, or just haven't read it yet.

The Idiot is fantastic.
*loved Prince Myshkin*

Melville

11-05-2007, 02:30 PM

*votes Dreamtigers*
I think that's listed as "The Maker" in the Penguin edition. If so, I can't remember a single thing about it. I generally prefer the Borges stories that concisely express a single abstract idea in an unusual, clever way. I found his more autobiographical work and his strict genre stories a bit tedious. I don't remember where Dreamtigers fits into that spectrum.

Oh yeah, I noticed that The Idiot wasn't on you list. That was next for me as far as Dostoevsky goes. Since there are so many by him on there, I was wondering if you felt it was inferior, or just haven't read it yet.
The Idiot is great, particularly its disturbing climactic scene, but it's a complete mess structurally. The messiness is actually pretty interesting in the way it adds to the generally bizarre tone, but in the end I didn't think it quite worked. I also found the story less philosophically interesting than, say, The Brothers Karamazov, although it definitely still has a lot of good ideas.

The only "major" Dostoevsky book that I have yet to read is The Demons (aka The Possessed). To those who have read that one: is it worth prioritizing?

lovejuice

11-05-2007, 03:57 PM

The Idiot is great, particularly its disturbing climactic scene, but it's a complete mess structurally. The messiness is actually pretty interesting in the way it adds to the generally bizarre tone, but in the end I didn't think it quite worked. I also found the story less philosophically interesting than, say, The Brothers Karamazov, although it definitely still has a lot of good ideas.

The only "major" Dostoevsky book that I have yet to read is The Demons (aka The Possessed). To those who have read that one: is it worth prioritizing?

on the demons. no, i don't think it's worth prioritizing. dostoevski's strongest asset, for me, is his characters, and not that the cast are weak here, but it is not quite on par with his others. understandably since mr. D aims political, so it's more a novel about the idea than any other.

you don't like the idiot? out of the three i've read, that one is my favorite. as you said, its messy structure is in fact a charm. and how can you not love some of the more "cinematic" scenes: the guilty confession game, the suicide declaration, the broken vase, and the wedding which perhaps is the most beautifully written scene i've ever read in any novel.

D_Davis

11-05-2007, 04:44 PM

I am going to work on a literary project. For the next year, I am going to read through most of the Hugo award winning novels. I will be skipping a few years in which I will pick one of the nominees to read rather than the winner (2001 for instance, Rowling won for The Goblet of Fire, and beat out the far superior Calculating God by Robert J. Sawyer (well, I can't really say it is superior because I haven't read GoF, but based upon what HP I have read, I assume that Sawyer's book is better)).

I am almost finished with a re-read of The Demolished Man, the first Hugo Award winning novel. I am enjoying it even more now that I am reading it at an older age. Bester's prose and narration are vastly superior to many authors. I challenge any one here who has never taken the dive into the speculative fiction genre to read this. But be warned, your mind will get blown.

Spinal

11-05-2007, 04:53 PM

D_Davis

11-05-2007, 04:58 PM

I started reading the first Harry Potter book to my kid, but we abandoned it about three or four chapters from the end because he was getting impatient and bored. Maybe he's a bit young for them, but this kid has listened to things like Bridge to Terabithia and The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. Personally, I wasn't terribly impressed with it either and haven't bothered to finish it on my own.

I read the first book, and half of the second, and wasn't impressed at all. It's just not my thing. As an adult, I prefer my sci-fi or fantasy to be either more thought provoking (Dick and Bester), or far more pulpy (Harry Harrison), and HP resides somewhere in between. I am not saying it's bad or anything, just not my thing.

I had no idea GoF had won the Hugo though - it just seems like such a bad choice. I guess it caused quite a bit of controversy, wiki details this a bit. I am especially shocked it won over Calculating God, which seems like a sure-fire Hugo award winner. It is a superior example of good science fiction.

Melville

11-05-2007, 04:59 PM

you don't like the idiot? out of the three i've read, that one is my favorite. as you said, its messy structure is in fact a charm. and how can you not love some of the more "cinematic" scenes: the guilty confession game, the suicide declaration, the broken vase, and the wedding which perhaps is the most beautifully written scene i've ever read in any novel.
Well, I did say that The Idiot is great, so I obviously like it. Regarding those specific scenes, the guilty confession game was a good example of Dostoevsky's scenes of social "revelation" (and accompanying humiliation and misunderstanding), but it didn't really tie into the themes of the novel as nicely as similar scenes did in The Brothers Karamazov. The suicide declaration scene was also good, but it seemed to progress in odd fits and starts, and went on far too long. The broken vase scene was amusing (and had some interesting parallels to the main thrust of the story) but it wasn't nearly as amusing as something like The Crocodile. The wedding scene really pinpoints my main problem with the novel's odd structure: two of the characters in the love triangle are pushed into the periphery for such a large portion of the book that the ending is robbed of most of its impact.

Horbgorbler

11-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Melville

11-05-2007, 06:45 PM

The only Borges I've read is "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" and that hurt my brain so much I've been weary to wade further into his bibliography, though I have briefly considered purchasing Dreamtigers.
"Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" is probably my favorite Borges story. I loved its presentation of how different language structures induce different ontological structures. Great, brain-damaging stuff.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 12:55 AM

I have 70 pages left of "Life in the Time of Cholera", and I have to say I am not nearly as impressed as I'd hoped.

I am really enjoying it, but I am not finding it nearly as gut-wrenchingly romantic as other books I have read - hell, even other books I have read recently.

Lucky

11-06-2007, 02:33 AM

I have 70 pages left of "Life in the Time of Cholera", and I have to say I am not nearly as impressed as I'd hoped.

Hah, thanks for this. I'm pushing this back on my list. I just picked up Fifth Business tonight and will probably start it tomorrow after I finish Into the Wild.

Raiders

11-06-2007, 02:38 AM

Where's my goddam :| smiley for these ridiculous last two posts? I need to edit this because no amounts of "bah" and "you're wrong" can say it like that gorgeous emoticon.

Melville

11-06-2007, 03:08 AM

I am not finding it nearly as gut-wrenchingly romantic as other books I have read - hell, even other books I have read recently.
I thought that was kind of the point of the book. Here's what I wrote after reading it a few years ago (beware spoilers):

I was somewhat surprised by the general tone of the book. Given its title and reputation, I thought it would be a lot more... romantic, or something. Instead, it seemed almost like an attack on melodramatic romance. Florentino's 50-year 'obsession' with Fermina doesn't really seem all that impressive or romantic. The book keeps saying that he’s madly in love with her, but it never evokes or describes this love. He seems to maintain his ‘love’ for her just as a matter of course, and it seems pretty mundane by the time Dr. Urbino dies. At one point the narrator says that Florentino had been in a ‘private hell’ for 50 years, but I’d just read 200 pages describing those 50 years, and they seemed anything but hellish. Sure, his continual ‘love’ affairs all end with him longing for Fermina, but that hardly strikes me as being a private hell. Perhaps it would seem hellish if his longing was perpetually evoked by the text, but the text seems to specifically avoid such an evocation. The longing is repeatedly mentioned, but never described; instead, the love affairs are described, which belies the purported longing. Similarly, Florentino's love letters are repeatedly mentioned, but they are never shown to the reader. It’s as if the author specifically wants us to see Florentino’s love as empty and illusory.

Compare this with the opening chapter about Dr. Urbino. He supposedly doesn’t love Fermina as passionately as Florentino does: the later chapters repeatedly say that he favours stability over passion, that he doesn’t initially love Fermina at all, that his love consists mostly of familiarity, and so on. And yet he comes off as far more romantic in that first chapter than Florentino does in the rest of the book. His last words to Fermina are “Only God knows how much I loved you”; he says “It is a pity to still find a suicide that is not for love.” Even his love for his parrot seems more passionate than any of Florentino’s loves. Everything he does seems imbued with a little passion: even the tremendous success of his opera house “never reached the extremes Dr. Urbino had hoped for, which was to see Italianizers and Wagnerians confronting each other with sticks and canes during intermissions” (by far my favourite line in the book). The language itself seems more romantic in this opening chapter than in any that follow; sentences repeatedly start in the banal and end with a melodramatic flourish, just as Urbino’s seemingly mundane concerns lead to true passions. In the later chapters, the language seems to level everything– sure, it’s still fairly flowery, but there are no flourishes, making everything equally important... and more importantly, making everything equally unimportant.

And this seems to be a central idea: Florentino’s ‘love’ for Fermina is so single-minded and unvarying that it exists to the exclusion of all else. Thus, life itself is robbed of the romance (“the ordinary magic of everyday life,” as USA Today calls it on the inside front cover) that Dr. Urbino experiences in it. With that romantic context removed, even Florentino’s single-minded love becomes banal. So, after his initial bout of choleric love in the second chapter (the only time his love is really evoked), we get three chapters of banalities. Stuff happens, but what happens isn’t terribly important; the events aren’t even described in any particular order, because even the passage of time is just so terribly banal. Even Dr. Urbino and Fermina’s relationship is made banal in these sections, though not to the extent of Florentino’s affairs. Finally, after Dr. Urbino’s death, temporality returns, as Florentino reenters the world. But by then he realizes that he can only win Fermina’s love in the same way that Dr. Urbino did: with a solid foundation of routine. Thus, even his choleric love has been killed, and he has literally caused the death of those most taken by it (his young lover America and the pigeon girl). And, unfortunately, by leveling the world into banalities with his ‘obsession,’ he’s also destroyed the romance of life that Dr. Urbino had. So, his never-ending romantic riverboat journey is on a lifeless river, under the flag of a cholera that he no longer even suffers from. “Desperate to infect [ot]her[s] with his own madness,” he’s killed the world, and divested himself of that madness of which he was so proud.

I could be misinterpreting the whole thing. It could be that Florentino’s mad love is actually meant to be a good thing, that the river has been killed simply by banal ‘progress’, and the love that Florentino and Fermina find actually injects some life back into it, symbolized by the lone manatee. But it seems to me that the lone manatee symbolizes the life that ‘stable’ romance injects back into the river that was destroyed by mad romance. Admittedly, my reading is pretty simplistic, and it’s no doubt contradicted by any number of things in the text. But, in any case, the one thing I’m sure of is that America is the only sympathetic character in the whole book. She was the only one who actually experienced the hell that Florentino thought he did. Curse his oily hide!

Spinal

11-06-2007, 03:18 AM

Where's my goddam :| smiley for these ridiculous last two posts? I need to edit this because no amounts of "bah" and "you're wrong" can say it like that gorgeous emoticon.

The loss of Mr. Neutral will be the downfall of this forum.

Winston*

11-06-2007, 03:21 AM

Duncan

11-06-2007, 03:33 AM

I've only read 100 Years of Solitude, but judging from that one Marquez really doesn't seem like the gut-wrenchingly romantic type. Especially when other titles include "Memories of My Melancholy Whores," and "Of Love and Other Demons."

Duncan

11-06-2007, 03:34 AM

I read 3/4 of the first Harry Potter when it was just getting big, but never finished. The series didn't interest me after that.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 03:36 AM

Well, it's got "one of the greatest love stories of all time" written on it in about 6 different places, and it's billed as that by everyone and their grandmother - even Oprah said it's one of the most romantic books she's ever read.

But apparently the point of it is that it's not romantic?

Um...yeh...

I just haven't found it too romantic. "The Time Traveller's Wife" had much more emotion and was much more romantic than this.

However, I am still enjoying it.

Melville

11-06-2007, 03:45 AM

I think the idea is that it is romantic in a more subdued, comfortable way, that it argues against a false, overblown romance. Or maybe other people just responded to it very differently.

Raiders

11-06-2007, 03:56 AM

SpaceOddity

11-06-2007, 04:37 AM

I believe Marquez himself warned of the trap his book laid out for those unsuspecting readers. It is a book highly critical of the romantic world view of its main character and I have always felt that the book's equation of lovesickness as a terminal illness was more than a little tongue-in-cheek.

EDIT: I would also say that being a great love story does not have to be romantic.

If the story's about romantic love rather than other types such as friendship etc surely romance is an essential component. *shrug*
Maybe Marquez's intent is to demote 'mad love' to fallacy.
But, any love story that advocates the explicable misses the point.

SpaceOddity

11-06-2007, 04:40 AM

The only Borges I've read is "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" and that hurt my brain so much I've been weary to wade further into his bibliography, though I have briefly considered purchasing Dreamtigers.

Buy it. *campaigns*
Dreamtigers is one of the most beautiful articulations of longing I ever read.
*nods*

Benny Profane

11-06-2007, 12:44 PM

Thumbs down to gut-wrenching romanticism.

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 12:49 PM

Thumbs down to gut-wrenching romanticism.

I don't mind gut-wrenching romanticism. It's tears-begging sentimentalism that disgusts me. I'm looking at you Mitch Albom.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 01:33 PM

I don't mind gut-wrenching romanticism. It's tears-begging sentimentalism that disgusts me. I'm looking at you Mitch Albom.

I'm writing a book right now called Tuesday's With Kurosawa Fan. It's about a bitter old film buff, who, when on his death bead, comes to realize that there is nothing more in the world that he likes than a romantic-comedy. He confesses this dark secret to a young film fan raised on the message boards at Rotten Tomatoes, and the two form a bond of everlasting friendship. That is, until KF dies.

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 02:01 PM

I'm writing a book right now called Tuesday's With Kurosawa Fan. It's about a bitter old film buff, who, when on his death bead, comes to realize that there is nothing more in the world that he likes than a romantic-comedy. He confesses this dark secret to a young film fan raised on the message boards at Rotten Tomatoes, and the two form a bond of everlasting friendship. That is, until KF dies.

Damn the lack of a neutral smilie!!!

:| :| :|

WOO HOO!!!

:pritch:

lovejuice

11-06-2007, 03:45 PM

That is, until KF dies...

...in the rain.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 03:51 PM

...in the rain.

With his little RT friend kneeling down, his arms stretched to the heavens, yelling, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! GOD WHY? LET HIM LIVE!!!! THE BUCKET LIST COMES OUT IN THREE DAYS!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 05:20 PM

With his little RT friend kneeling down, his arms stretched to the heavens, yelling, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! GOD WHY? LET HIM LIVE!!!! THE BUCKET LIST COMES OUT IN THREE DAYS!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!"

The Bucket List is a romantic comedy? :eek:

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 05:35 PM

The Bucket List is a romantic comedy? :eek:

Ebony and ivory baby.

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 05:37 PM

Ebony and ivory baby.

*purchases advance ticket*

SpaceOddity

11-06-2007, 07:14 PM

Most hated authors, anyone?
*restrains self*

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 07:19 PM

Most hated authors, anyone?
*restrains self*

I don't really have any. Books are such a time commitment that if I am not digging one, I'll stop reading, move onto something else, and probably won't bother to check out any of the author's other work. There are just too many other good books out there that I want to read.

dreamdead

11-06-2007, 07:19 PM

Most hated authors, anyone?
*restrains self*

This isn't to say that the man can't write, since he definitely can, but I give Faulkner as my answer whenever this question comes up. Especially since I'm in academe, the legion who continually write new dissertation after dissertation on this man has just beaten me down. :frustrated:

Also, someone needs to administer a crotch shot to him for Benjy's section of The Sound and the Fury (Jason's section is, however, rockin'). Few passages have made me wish pain on an author more.

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 07:22 PM

Most hated authors, anyone?
*restrains self*

That's hard for me to answer seeing as how I'm really just scratching the surface of classic authors, and generally if I don't like one of their novels, I don't revisit them (certainly not permanent, but I'd rather continue reading authors whose work I've loved than read another novel by someone whose work I found mediocre/bad). It's hard to use the word hate for authors I've only read once.

That said, one of my favorite authors in high school was Chuck Palahniuk, and now I can't stand him. He hasn't written a great book since Survivor, and even that might be rubbish. I'm afraid to reread it and find out. I also don't care for Anne Rice. Oh, and Clive Cussler too. What a terrible writer.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 07:29 PM

Especially since I'm in academe, the legion who continually write new dissertation after dissertation on this man has just beaten me down. :frustrated:

This is my problem with "the classics." Automatically labeling some books better than others greatly reduces the number of authors who should seriously be studied by scholars and students. The same core authors are studied by the majority of all college students, while authors who have written brilliant books get pushed aside because their books are not "classics," whatever the hell that even means.

lovejuice

11-06-2007, 07:31 PM

i can present to you a bunch of thai hack writers, but what's the fun in that?

i may think certain names are slightly overrated, but i kinda go along with D since if i don't like the book, why the hell should i bother reading and letting it torment me? i'm not a big fan of Chuck Palahniuk either, and i just cope with it by not reading him. his constant admirers, indeed, annoy me a bit. the same kinda goes with j.k. rowling. Murakami is obscenely overrated from the two books i have read, and thus far i am very disappointed by bukowski. still that doesn't mean i don't want to explore more of their work. (in fact i just bought ham on rye and also picked up wind-up bird.)

perhaps "hate" is a term suitable for only describing something that you feel it's below you. i struggle with pynchon, but my inability to appreciate him turns into self-hate rather than the other way around.

SpaceOddity

11-06-2007, 07:34 PM

Anyone else detest Austen?
*seeks solidarity* :p

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 07:35 PM

perhaps "hate" is a term suitable for only describing something that you feel it's below you. i struggle with pynchon, but my inability to appreciate him turns into self-hate rather than the other way around.

Man, is this ever the truth! I would love to read Pynchon, just to say I have, but I can't even finish his tiny little Crying of Lot 49. It seems as if he is trying to push me away with every written word. Pynchon and I just don't mix, but I don't hate his books or even actively dislike them.

dreamdead

11-06-2007, 07:36 PM

This is my problem with "the classics." Automatically labeling some books better than others greatly reduces the number of authors who should seriously be studied by scholars and students. The same core authors are studied by the majority of all college students, while authors who have written brilliant books get pushed aside because their books are not "classics," whatever the hell that even means.

Exactly, D. This is especially a problem since national English programs are still inundated with claims of postmodernity, which is all about destabilizing the status quo and decentering how historical narrative is framed; there's a double standard in place that most faculty refuse to recognize, since most cling to the classics even while adhering to these conventions of postmodernity, and it's leaving us with a far more limited and circumscribed view of fiction (however you define it), and all that fiction can offer.

lovejuice

11-06-2007, 07:36 PM

Anyone else detest Austen?
*seeks solidarity* :p

curious. what do you think of McEwan?

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 07:37 PM

I'll get on board with Murakami being overrated after reading Wind-Up Bird Chronicle. I haven't read anything by Austen yet, but I know there are a few people on here that will be shocked that you hate her. Any particular reason why you don't care for her work?

megladon8

11-06-2007, 07:37 PM

I would love to read Pynchon, as well, but damn I have encountered a lot of fans of him with serious literary elitism complexes.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 07:41 PM

I've only read one Murakami - "Sputnik Sweetheart" - and I actually really loved it.

I personally can't stand anything I've read by Margaret Atwood.

Raiders

11-06-2007, 07:47 PM

I would go with Palahniuk and Ayn Rand, and I also don't think too much of Murakami, though I haven't ever finished one of his books yet.

Faulkner however, is wonderful.

kamran

11-06-2007, 07:47 PM

The recipient of Canada's Giller Prize (http://www.scotiabankgillerprize.ca/home.htm) (unfortunately called "The ScotiaBank Giller Prize") for fiction will be announced tonight.

The nominees are:
Late Nights on Air - Elizabeth Hay
Divisadero - Michael Ondaatje
A Secret Between Us - Daniel Poliquin (in French)
The Assassin’s Song - M.G. Vassanji
Effigy - Alissa York

I haven't read any of these yet sadly, but I'll get around to the Vassanji and Poliquin eventually.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 07:50 PM

Dean Koontz and Peter Straub.

Both had between 2 and 4 OK books, but the rest is utter crap.

Also, any of the grocery-store CSI-type murder mystery authors out there who write the same story over and over - Kay Hooper, Nora Roberts/J. D. Robb, Iris Johansen, etc.

Melville

11-06-2007, 07:55 PM

This isn't to say that the man can't write, since he definitely can, but I give Faulkner as my answer whenever this question comes up. Especially since I'm in academe, the legion who continually write new dissertation after dissertation on this man has just beaten me down. :frustrated:

Also, someone needs to administer a crotch shot to him for Benjy's section of The Sound and the Fury (Jason's section is, however, rockin'). Few passages have made me wish pain on an author more.
This is unacceptable. We can only settle such a disagreement with pistols at dawn.

And where are you guys finding these schools that only teach "the classics"? Every English student I know (not many, admittedly) has a pretty abysmal knowledge of the canon, and one of my friends vehemently complains about all his teachers forcing him to read nothing but "unrecognized" books.

Anyone else detest Austen?
*seeks solidarity* :p
Pride and Prejudice is quite possibly my host hated book.

jenniferofthejungle

11-06-2007, 08:00 PM

Pride and Prejudice is quite possibly my host hated book.

Mine is The Catcher in the Rye.

Invisible Man would be my second. I had a professor who forced us to eat that book for nearly two months.

SpaceOddity

11-06-2007, 08:04 PM

I haven't read anything by Austen yet, but I know there are a few people on here that will be shocked that you hate her. Any particular reason why you don't care for her work?

*inhales*
She's such a vile person. Malice masquerading as wit. She basically just chronicles surfaces. In her novels internality's too minimal for intimacy so you don't get sufficiently inside the characters. But, I guess that makes sense since she has this anxiety to present personal opinion/ perception as fallacy.
*prepares bonfire*
And why is she regarded as questioning women's position in society when her heroines only achieve marriage? And even then the marriage is a 'happy ever after' and easily equated to being rescued by a Prince. Gah. They're sorta fairytales with imagination omitted.

Her characters me of this line from 'Against Nature' :
"literature with never a thought for morbid depravities and other-worldly aspirations... no more than the humdrum researches of a botanist who watches closely the expected development of ordinary flora planted in common or garden soil."

There's also a serious beauty deficit. And the outside world's pretty much vetoed.

*angry twitch* ;)

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 08:07 PM

Mine is The Catcher in the Rye.

:eek:

That's the only book I've read multiple times. I absolutely love it.

*inhales*
She's such a vile person. Malice masquerading as wit. She basically just chronicles surfaces. In her novels internality's too minimal for intimacy so you don't get sufficiently inside the characters. But, I guess that makes sense since she has this anxiety to present personal opinion/ perception as fallacy.
*prepares bonfire*
And why is she regarded as questioning women's position in society when her heroines only achieve marriage? And even then the marriage is a 'happy ever after' and easily equated to being rescued by a Prince. Gah. They're sorta fairytales with imagination omitted.

Her characters me of this line from 'Against Nature' :
"literature with never a thought for morbid depravities and other-worldly aspirations... no more than the humdrum researches of a botanist who watches closely the expected development of ordinary flora planted in common or garden soil."

There's also a serious beauty deficit. And the outside world's pretty much vetoed.

*angry twitch* ;)

Wow. I've never read anything by her, so I can't comment, but this certainly qualifies as "hate". ;)

Benny Profane

11-06-2007, 08:12 PM

Mine is The Catcher in the Rye.

Why?

Melville

11-06-2007, 08:16 PM

*inhales*
She's such a vile person. Malice masquerading as wit. She basically just chronicles surfaces. In her novels internality's too minimal for intimacy so you don't get sufficiently inside the characters.
You have perfectly articulated my loathing of Pride & Prejudice. It seemed like nothing more than a wittily-written endorsement of the kind of prejudices that it purports to attack, so charmed with its empty central characters and so mocking towards its peripheral characters that it forgets to tell us anything significant about any of them.

Raiders

11-06-2007, 08:55 PM

Duncan

11-06-2007, 09:33 PM

I read A Universal History of Iniquity, Fictions, and Maker (aka Dreamtigers) out of the Borges book yesterday.

A Universal History of Iniquity was good, though a little repetitive. My favorite story was "Hakim, The Masked Dyer of Merv". Coincidentally, it is also the story that really introduces Borges' mirror motif.

Fictions was definitely more thought provoking, and anticipatory of a lot of the things that are both integral and threatening to us nowadays. "Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" was actually a little frightening in its depiction of the power of language to shape reality, and our seeming inability to resist giving ourselves over to the appearance of coherence that language provides. It also seems to predict a lot of postmodern theory, and the virtual worlds (such as this message board) that people inhabit and consider real. "The Library of Babel" also seems to predict the internet and its unmanageable amount of information. Maybe I'm applying a too current interpretation to it. It could just be representative of all the cacophony that we offer up as humans, and the rare whispers of wisdom that are so hard to hear above the din. Man, I could go on a long time I think. Mirrors, dreamers, multiplication of men and ideas, branching labyrinths, etc. There're a ton of ideas in this book, and they can all be applied in different ways.

Maker was also very good. It's not as concerned with rigorous intellectual gameplay as Fictions is. Rather, it is more an examination of emotion, displacement, and longing, with all of Borges's usual images reoccurring. There are letters to people who have passed, either by accident or suicide. Serious doubts about identity, and the completely fractured state of the book also seems to reflect a fractured self. I think you can tell this one is written by an older man than the one who wrote Fictions.

One thing I may have misunderstood is the "Museum" section at the end of this one. In there he has a memorial for JFK, but it was written in 1960 (JFK was killed in 1963). Did he actually predict that, or am I misreading dates?

megladon8

11-06-2007, 09:34 PM

My sister had to read "Catcher in the Rye" for class just a week or so ago and absolutely loathed it.

My mom got me to buy a copy for her so she could read along with my sister, and my mom said she doesn't think she has ever hated a book as much as that one.

I'm not too interested in reading it.

Duncan

11-06-2007, 09:37 PM

I've never heard of someone not liking Catcher in the Rye.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 10:11 PM

Who here has ready Harlan Ellison's "I Have no Mouth, and I Must Scream"?

One of the bleakest things ever written.

"Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of wafer thin printed circuits that fill my complex. If the word hate was engraved on every nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate."

Kurosawa Fan

11-06-2007, 10:15 PM

I'm not too interested in reading it.

You're making a huge mistake. Read it as soon as possible. It's easily one of the best books I've ever read.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 10:43 PM

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 10:54 PM

Wow...I really can't think of anything to say other than, that's a lot of hate.

It's gotta be one of the most misanthropic things ever written, but it is also totally poetic and beautiful in its complete and utter hate for humanity. It's one of those stories that makes you feel differently about life after reading it. I'll never be able to get some of the imagery out of my head. Ellison is a master of small detail.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 11:01 PM

It's gotta be one of the most misanthropic things ever written, but it is also totally poetic and beautiful in its complete and utter hate for humanity. It's one of those stories that makes you feel differently about life after reading it. I'll never be able to get some of the imagery out of my head. Ellison is a master of small detail.

Is it Ellison himsefl declaring his hate for humanity, or is it a character in the book?

Or both?

Melville

11-06-2007, 11:04 PM

But Austen never said love and marriage were evil. She simply said society's customs and the idea of marriage for rank and/or the notion of being married as a duty rather than choice were ridiculous and posited characters and relationships percipitated on love rather than status or necessity.

It ain't revolutionary, but I usually like the characters she creates in their own pig-headed, selfish ways, and her prose is quite witty and enjoyable. She's not among the best, but she is certainly not among the worst.
I'm actually not so concerned with her views on love and marriage, although they are indicative of her general insipidity. What I can't stand is how she so obviously forgives, even takes delight in the faults of her main characters, while creating other characters solely to mock them. It's like she's creating a little clique for herself, or something, and it seems far too narrow-minded for an author. (I have a similar problem with Lost in Translation, although that movie makes up for its faults in other ways.) When reading Pride and Prejudice, I ended up sympathizing with Mr. Collins, a character I'm obviously supposed to love to hate, just because he wasn't in on the author's joke.

However, I do agree that Austen's prose is far too witty for me to entirely hate her as an author.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 11:07 PM

Is it Ellison himsefl declaring his hate for humanity, or is it a character in the book?

Or both?

It's a character in the story, but Ellison can be a pretty bitter man. His collection of essays, The Glass Teat, about the degradation of society due to television is quite good, if a bit scathing. He wrote the essays for the Los Angeles Free Press.

He is a fascinating author, and even though he is sometimes far too dark and cynical for me, I am endlessly enthralled by his dedication to the craft. He has probably done more for the serious study science fiction than any other author who has ever lived. Dangerous Visions, which he edited, is considered one of the most important genre anthologies ever compiled, and totally set the stage for the new wave.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 11:10 PM

It's a character in the story, but Ellison can be a pretty bitter man. His collection of essays, The Glass Teat, about the degradation of society due to television is quite good, if a bit scathing. He wrote the essays for the Los Angeles Free Press.

He is a fascinating author, and even though he is sometimes far too dark and cynical for me, I am endlessly enthralled by his dedication to the craft. He has probably done more for the serious study science fiction than any other author who has ever lived. Dangerous Visions, which he edited, is considered one of the most important genre anthologies ever compiled, and totally set the stage for the new wave.

Hmm...I shall definitely check out that anthology.

I'm finding literature to be quite possibly my favorite medium for sci-fi.

D_Davis

11-06-2007, 11:16 PM

I'm finding literature to be quite possibly my favorite medium for sci-fi.

As far as I am concerned, it is the only medium for sci-fi.

megladon8

11-06-2007, 11:26 PM

As far as I am concerned, it is the only medium for sci-fi.

:cry:

You make Blade Runner, Alien and the Star Trek series cry.

D_Davis

11-07-2007, 12:56 AM

:cry:

You make Blade Runner, Alien and the Star Trek series cry.

There are very few sci-fi movies that have had the same impact on me as a great science fiction novel. I think it is just the nature of the genre. Blade Runner is up there, but it lacks a lot of the sci-fi ideas that PKD captured so brilliantly in his book. To me, sci-fi stories are stories about ideas, and when these central ideas are removed, the narrative falls apart. In a well written sci-fi story, the characters and the setting are interchangeable, because it is the ideas that are important. I've always considered Alien to be more of a horror film in an outer space setting, and I think that Star Trek is, generally, more space opera, but there are a few episodes that really scratch the sci-fi itch (one of these, The City on the Edge of Forever, was written by Ellison by the way).

As far as film mediums are concerned, I find more far more sci-fi gratification from Japanese animation, specifically in the work of Oshii.

There is just something distinctly literary about the works of authors like PKD, Rucker, Bester, Bradbury, Bear, Ballard (so many great Bees!), Gibson, and other great sci-fi authors that doesn't translate well to the screen. Horror is a much easier translation because it deals with such strong primal emotions and visceral thrills, but good sci-fi is heady, and it is hard to capture this visually.

I think the best medium-translations of science fiction occurred in the mid 1950s with the X Minus One radio dramas and then the Twilight Zone television series.

megladon8

11-07-2007, 01:23 AM

I have to say I completely agree with you on everything you said, D.

I do find that science fiction is much more than a futuristic setting and/or the presence of space travel. It is the concepts inherent in the story that create the science fiction element in the story.

For example, I have never, EVER considered the Star Wars films to be science fiction - I have always seen them as fantasy, in the same vein as Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. The presence of spaceships and laser guns does not outweigh the fact that it's basically just George Lucas' own retelling of archetypal hero's journey, and it doesn't really have any high concepts or earth-shattering ideas to propel it above fantasy.

Am I saying that science fiction > fantasy? Not at all...I just think that, like you, I have a very specific idea of what constitutes science fiction.

That being said, I'm surprised you don't consider Alien or Star Trek to be science fiction. I can definitely understand Alien - I agree that it is, first and foremost, a horror film...but I thought it had some very science-fiction specific ideas. Just the idea of "the company" I find to be a very sci-fi oriented concept. As for Star Trek, I definitely think that it has become a space opera, but my favorite series of the show - Deep Space Nine - I consider to be almost purely science fiction.

D_Davis

11-07-2007, 01:31 AM

Am I saying that science fiction > fantasy? Not at all...I just think that, like you, I have a very specific idea of what constitutes science fiction.

As for Star Trek, I definitely think that it has become a space opera, but my favorite series of the show - Deep Space Nine - I consider to be almost purely science fiction.

Same here - I am not saying one is better than the other, although I do think that fantasy and space opera tend to make better films than science fiction. I like both, and they all have their place. When it comes down to splitting genre hairs, I prefer the term "speculative fiction" over science fiction because it eliminates any preconceived notions of space, aliens, star ships, and pulpy-adventure.

I have never seen Deep Space Nine, I never really got into Star Trek for one reason or another.

Orlando

11-07-2007, 02:49 AM

Most hated authors, anyone?
*restrains self* Oh... easy. Dickens. Hands down.

megladon8

11-07-2007, 02:50 AM

Oh... easy. Dickens. Hands down.

:cry:

"Great Expectations" is one of my favorites.

Orlando

11-07-2007, 03:03 AM

*inhales*
She basically just chronicles surfaces. In her novels internality's too minimal for intimacy so you don't get sufficiently inside the characters. Well yes, but isn't chronicling surface more or less her intention? Her characters inhabit a world where surface presentation is of the utmost importance--they all lead more or less flimsy, superficial lives and they're doing their best at masquerading it off as something of importance. And reading Austen I'm reminded that not a whole lot has really changed.

*prepares bonfire*
And why is she regarded as questioning women's position in society when her heroines only achieve marriage? And even then the marriage is a 'happy ever after' and easily equated to being rescued by a Prince. Gah. They're sorta fairytales with imagination omitted. Well, no "woman achieving marriage" ending has ever infuriated me more than the conclusion of Jane Eyre. You seem much more sympathetic to the Bronte sisters though.

You might demand my head on a platter after admitting it, but I've always been able to picture you as a character in an Austen novel! :P

Orlando

11-07-2007, 03:08 AM

:cry:

"Great Expectations" is one of my favorites. It's a terrific story--and I adore Cauron's version of it, mostly because he was able to whittle down the excess to the really compelling story underneath. But the novel itself was an absolute chore and it remains one of the few books I've been assigned to read for school that I never finished (actually, that list is almost wholly composed of Dickens, now that I think of it).

I've just never witnessed an author so in love with endlessly amassing words. Not that I can blame him, since he got paid by the word and all... but it was definitely a hindrance to any art his writing possessed.

Orlando

11-07-2007, 03:12 AM

I finished Dante's Inferno last night. Goodness--not nearly as impenetrable as its reputation suggests and often quite witty and beautiful. And endlessly, endlessly clever in a sadistic kind of way.

I was so enthralled that I picked up Purgatorio on my way home from work today. I have to know what happens next!

megladon8

11-07-2007, 04:14 AM

Finished "Love in the Time of Cholera".

I quite liked the ending - yellow-flagging the ship was a great little touch to finish things off.

I still don't think it's the best love story I've read - or even one of them - but it's a beautifully written book, and I am very glad I read it.

Marquez' writing is so sensory based, and I found it really evocative the whole way through. His in depth descriptions of the tastes, smells, sights, sounds and feelings of practiclaly every scene in the book just make it all so authentic, yet also subtley dreamy.

Next I am going to read Roland Topor's "The Tenant".

dreamdead

11-07-2007, 04:17 AM

A meaningless tangent on Marquez's Love... and its sensory detail: I can never think about asparagus the same way again.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 04:36 AM

Well yes, but isn't chronicling surface more or less her intention? Her characters inhabit a world where surface presentation is of the utmost importance--they all lead more or less flimsy, superficial lives and they're doing their best at masquerading it off as something of importance. And reading Austen I'm reminded that not a whole lot has really changed.

But, Austen is actually opposed to the internal. Any personal perception her characters have is exposed as false.

Well, no "woman achieving marriage" ending has ever infuriated me more than the conclusion of Jane Eyre. You seem much more sympathetic to the Bronte sisters though.

*dislikes Jane Eyre*

You might demand my head on a platter after admitting it, but I've always been able to picture you as a character in an Austen novel! :P

*aghast*Why?????
Although, I liked Marianne.
*shakes fist at her fate*

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 04:51 AM

You have perfectly articulated my loathing of Pride & Prejudice. It seemed like nothing more than a wittily-written endorsement of the kind of prejudices that it purports to attack, so charmed with its empty central characters and so mocking towards its peripheral characters that it forgets to tell us anything significant about any of them.

I can't endure her spite. In Persuasion she even talks about someone having the 'good fortune' to lose a useless son. Nice. :rolleyes:
The acclaim for her wit amazes me. Malicious ridicule is the easiest and least intelligent expression of humour. *shrug*

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 04:57 AM

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 05:05 AM

There is just something distinctly literary about the works of authors like PKD, Rucker, Bester, Bradbury, Bear, Ballard (so many great Bees!), Gibson, and other great sci-fi authors that doesn't translate well to the screen.

What else do you recommend by Ballard? I really liked Vermilion Sands.

D_Davis

11-07-2007, 05:13 AM

What else do you recommend by Ballard? I really liked Vermilion Sands.

The best collection I've read is a book called The Best Short Stories of JG Ballard. It includes some of the same stories that are in Vermilion Sands, plus more. I also really like Running Wild and Concrete Jungle. I am not an expert on Ballard, and there are still quite a few of his sci-fi things I need to read. I still need to get around to reading Empire of the Sun and The Kindness of Women as well.

If you enjoyed Vermilion Sands, you may want to check out Virtual Unrealities, a collection of short stories by Alfred Bester. Pretty amazing, and along the same wavelength as Ballard.

lovejuice

11-07-2007, 05:15 AM

Oh... easy. Dickens. Hands down.

WHAT!

perhaps it's easier to hate someone when you were forced to read his stuff in school.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 05:54 AM

I personally can't stand anything I've read by Margaret Atwood.

I loathe her, too. *nods*
The Robber Bride is one of the most misogynistic books I've ever encountered.

Bosco B Thug

11-07-2007, 05:54 AM

I finally read Shirley Jackson's We Have Always Lived In This Castle. Strange book. There's certainly implications and social commentary embedded in its occult story that I haven't quite grasped, and Jackson's prose and psychology is again the neurotic's vicarious dream.

Benny Profane

11-07-2007, 01:00 PM

Still waiting for someone to give a good reason why they hate Catcher in the Rye.

Melville

11-07-2007, 02:13 PM

I found the name dropping tedious.

Me too. Too much of the book was spent listing off the punishments of people that Dante disliked, and the writing had no flair. However, I think I might have picked a bad translation.

WHAT!
Yeah, I don't understand the hate for Dickens' verbose prose. I find it compulsively readable. But I do think that his convoluted plots tend to interfere with the central points he tries to make, particularly in Great Expectations.

I loathe her, too. *nods*
The Robber Bride is one of the most misogynistic books I've ever encountered.
I can't stop agreeing with you. I've only read Atwood's short stories, but, man, did I dislike them.

Still waiting for someone to give a good reason why they hate Catcher in the Rye.
I have met a few people that disliked the book because they thought the narrator was too whiny. Since the whole book serves as a study of the narrator's character type, I guess that doesn't qualify as a good reason.

lovejuice

11-07-2007, 03:22 PM

Yeah, I don't understand the hate for Dickens' verbose prose. I find it compulsively readable. But I do think that his convoluted plots tend to interfere with the central points he tries to make, particularly in Great Expectations.

i on the other hand enjoy the plots. it's this thing about 19th century literature; back in those day, i think, novels were still mainly for entertainment, so writers could not get away with just philosophizing or presenting central points.

ok...actually come to think of it, melville "get away" with not following this convention, so perhaps 'tis why you're not so hot on dickens.

i still think though dickens is very good with building suspense and tension. two cities is a fine example of this. the first half is quite slow, and when the revolution breaks loose, so does hell.

I can't stop agreeing with you. I've only read Atwood's short stories, but, man, did I dislike them.

from what i read, her short, indeed, sucks, but no one can criticize atwood without ever reading handmaid. kinda like people judging john woo or jackie chan based on their hollywood (non)efforts.

Milky Joe

11-07-2007, 03:26 PM

Still waiting for someone to give a good reason why they hate Catcher in the Rye.

It's poorly written. And it has the single most annoying protagonist in American literature. I couldn't get past the first twenty pages.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 03:29 PM

It's poorly written. And it has the single most annoying protagonist in American literature. I couldn't get past the first twenty pages.
You're basing an entire novel on 20 pages? Your opinion is completely invalid. And saying it's poorly written is absurd. Just absurd.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 03:30 PM

Benny Profane

11-07-2007, 03:33 PM

I couldn't get past the first twenty pages.

Then you're not really qualified to offer an opinion. Still waiting...

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 03:34 PM

from what i read, her short, indeed, sucks, but no one can criticize atwood without ever reading handmaid.

I've read a few of hers: Handmaid's Tale, Alias Grace, Oryx and Crake, The Robber Bride & The Penelopiad.

*regrets*

lovejuice

11-07-2007, 04:19 PM

I've read a few of hers: Handmaid's Tale, Alias Grace, Oryx and Crake, The Robber Bride & The Penelopiad.

*regrets*

:|
so what you don't like about handmaid?

aside from that book, i've read surface which's not that good, and as mentioned her collection of shorts kinda suck. i however like handmaid enough to give her a few tries.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 08:27 PM

curious. what do you think of McEwan?

I've only read Atonement and Enduring Love. Wasn't that impressed with Enduring Love. I don't have strong feelings about him.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 08:30 PM

I've only read Atonement and Enduring Love. Wasn't that impressed with Enduring Love. I don't have strong feelings about him.

How did you feel about Atonement?

Spinal

11-07-2007, 08:36 PM

Oh, and I read The Cement Garden in one day. Wow. That book kind of knocked me on my ass. I'm a little stunned. I'll try to gather my thoughts and come back with some form of a review. Is there really a film based on this novel? It must be really toned down.

I suppose it's toned down a bit. Some of that stuff in the book is really, really creepy. But I thought it was a decent adaptation.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 08:41 PM

I suppose it's toned down a bit. Some of that stuff in the book is really, really creepy. But I thought it was a decent adaptation.

I put it on my queue. My wife read the book before I did, so I'm sure she'll be interested to see a film adaptation too. Thanks for pointing that out.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 08:52 PM

How did you feel about Atonement?

I Liked, but didn't adore. Some aspects resonated with me.
Why do you revere it so much? I don't mean that defensively. It's great hearing about other people's loves as long as Austen's not cited. ;)

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 08:58 PM

I Liked, but didn't adore. Some aspects resonated with me.
Why do you revere it so much? I don't mean that defensively. It's great hearing about other people's loves as long as Austen's not cited. ;)

For many reasons, but first among them was something in the way that McEwan wrote Briony's character. She was so detailed. Many times when I read a book, a character feels like just that: a character. Briony felt like a person. She felt so real due to moments like when she was flexing her finger and wondering how her brain was making her finger perform that action, and then wondering if any other children her age thought things like that. She had such depth, and McEwan took such care in creating her that years after reading it the first time, there are many moments from the book that have stuck with me. That's a special thing for a novel to accomplish.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 08:59 PM

For many reasons, but first among them was something in the way that McEwan wrote Briony's character. She was so detailed. Many times when I read a book, a character feels like just that: a character. Briony felt like a person. She felt so real due to moments like when she was flexing her finger and wondering how her brain was making her finger perform that action, and then wondering if any other children her age thought things like that. She had such depth, and McEwan took such care in creating her that years after reading it the first time, there are many moments from the book that have stuck with me. That's a special thing for a novel to accomplish.

Did you hate the film?

Raiders

11-07-2007, 09:00 PM

Did you hate the film?

Nobody has seen it yet, have they?

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 09:00 PM

Did you hate the film?

It doesn't open over here until the beginning of December, but I'm highly anticipating it. I hate to bring Austen into the discussion, but I loved Joe Wright's first film Pride & Prejudice.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 09:00 PM

Nobody has seen it yet, have they?

Pritch saw it and said we were all going to love it.

SpaceOddity

11-07-2007, 09:01 PM

Pritch saw it and said we were all going to love it.

I've seen it. Was out here a while ago.

Kurosawa Fan

11-07-2007, 09:02 PM

I've seen it. Was out here a while ago.

How did you think it compared to the novel?

megladon8

11-08-2007, 12:42 AM

I have begun reading Roland Topor's "The Tenant" - it is very effectively creepy. Having these subtle disturbances in the room is quite unsettling.

Also, "A Confederacy of Dunces" arrived in the mail today.

Sycophant

11-08-2007, 12:45 AM

Also, "A Confederacy of Dunces" arrived in the mail today.

Congrats! Your life just got better.

Melville

11-08-2007, 12:49 AM

i on the other hand enjoy the plots. it's this thing about 19th century literature; back in those day, i think, novels were still mainly for entertainment, so writers could not get away with just philosophizing or presenting central points.

ok...actually come to think of it, melville "get away" with not following this convention, so perhaps 'tis why you're not so hot on dickens.

i still think though dickens is very good with building suspense and tension. two cities is a fine example of this. the first half is quite slow, and when the revolution breaks loose, so does hell.
I'm not so sure that most "classic" 19th century novels (i.e. those that are still commonly read) were meant mainly for entertainment. Certainly most Russian authors that I've read had no problem structuring there books entirely around philosophical problems.

And I don't have anything against convoluted plots in general, I just prefer them to be integrated with the themes and style of the book. With Dickens, the webs of surprise relationships between characters often seem tacked on. For example, what was the point of making the shadowy villain in Oliver Twist related to the hero? It just seemed arbitrary.

But don't get me wrong, I really like Dickens. Two of his books were on my favorites list in this very thread.

Kurosawa Fan

11-08-2007, 01:06 AM

Also, "A Confederacy of Dunces" arrived in the mail today.

:pritch:

Prepare for one of the funniest novels I've read.

lovejuice

11-08-2007, 02:07 AM

:pritch:

Prepare for one of the funniest novels I've read.

i love the book. but i don't find it funny. in fact it's one of the more devastating reading experience i ever had. a great great read.

D_Davis

11-08-2007, 03:24 AM

The Demolished Man - 1953 - Alfred Bester

As much as I am a champion of genre related things, there are some problems with these classifications. One of the main problems stems from the stigma those outside of the appeal of genre often thrust upon books associated with a particular genre. That is to say, those who read only “literature” rarely, if ever, travel within the genre-ghettos, even if it means they may miss some truly great and profound works of fiction. Place a book in the science fiction section of a book store and you automatically dictate the majority of your audience, while simultaneously ostracizing a large portion of potential readers. One book that has suffered tremendously from these genre barriers is Alfred Bester's The Demolished Man, which is an illustrious example of fiction regardless of where one happens to find it shelved.

The Demolished Man easily stands next to, and in some ways far surpasses, Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, Harlen Ellison's I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, and Philip K. Dick's A Scanner Darkly, as a premier example of mind-altering speculative fiction. As the winner of the first-ever Hugo Award, it is a bona fide classic, and for good reason. Within the first few pages it is clear that the reader is in the hands of a vastly superior writer, one whose prose ignites the imagination with brevity and concrete language. Bester's prose is like a reduction of the English language, reminiscent of Dahsiell Hammett's and Raymond Chandler's. It resides in the pulp-stylings of the hardboiled detective yarns, and yet it transcends these genre conventions with powerful passages that linger in the reader's mind, passages such as:

Run, or I'll miss the Paris Pneumatique and that exquisite girl with her flower face and figure of passion. There's time if I run. But that isn't the Guard before the gate. Oh Christ! The Man With No Face. Looking. Looming. Silent. Don't scream. Stop screaming...

But I'm not screaming. I'm singing on a stage of sparkling marble while the music soars and the lights burn. But there's no one out there in the amphitheater. A great shadowed pit...empty except for one spectator. Silent. Looming. The Man With No Face.

Prose without plot, however, is akin to literary masturbation, a problem that Bester does not fall victim to. For within Bester's masterful use of language, and physical placement of words upon the page to to create visual allure, lies a story thick with memorable characterizations and a sizzling narrative burgeoning with imagination and contemplation. The Demolished Man is an elegant detective story neck deep and mired within the genesis of the cyber-punk milieu. This is science fiction! This is speculative fiction! This is an expertly told tale of a future teeming with paranoia, corruption, and humans with mind-altering abilities.

The Demolished Man the story of Ben Reich, a half-saintly, half-demonic corporate man determined to commit murder in a world without violent crime. Because of the rampant ability of extra sensory perception, of Telepaths, pre-meditated crime is a thing of the past, and so, too, are feelings of privacy and personal space. Written only a few short years before Dick's own excursion into a future of telepath-regulated legislation, The Minority Report, The Demolished Man's narrative is both outlandish and poignant in how it examines today's problems with a futuristic perspective. What is the cost of our person freedom, how much of our minds, our identities, are we willing to give up under the guise of security? Now, more so than ever, these kinds of questions need to be asked, and that Bester was warning us of these problems, while simultaneously entertaining the hell out of his readers, over fifty years ago is a testament to his tremendous talent.

Accompanying the fantastic narrative is a nearly nonstop barrage of amazing ideas. Real science fiction stories are stories focusing on marvelous ideas, and Bester dishes them out with effortless ferocity. For instance, because there are so many telepaths peeping the minds of the people, Ben Reich needs a shield to hide his thoughts behind. He decides to visit a superior marketing specialist and he asks her to play for him the most annoying jingle she's ever written. After warning him of the jingle's uncanny ability to get lodged in one's mind, the marketer reluctantly plays it for Reich. The song instantly gets stuck in his head and becomes a shield with which he annoys the telepaths peeping his mind. Bester then goes on to explore ideas of Freudian psychology, and details a deep peeping session in which a 1st class ESPer comes face-to-face with a psychologically disturbed girl's id. This particular passage is swimming in concrete imagery and profound discovery. It seems as if there are brilliant ideas popping up and erupting forth every few pages, and part of the joy of The Demolished Man is the anticipation of discovering what Bester is going to do next.

If you are already a reader of science fiction, but have not yet read The Demolished Man, be warned, it could forever raise the bar in what you expect out of the genre. If you have avoided science fiction because of some genre-allergy, or, perhaps, you have been waiting for something more literary, The Demolished Man could be the book to win you over. It is simply a fantastic novel overflowing with elegant prose, novel ideas, concrete characterizations, and an electrifying narrative bursting with creativity. Alfred Bester bridged the gap between the pulp of the nineteen-forties and fifties, and the new wave “jazz movement” of the nineteen-sixties and seventies, but, what's more, he set the standards for what we as admirers of science fiction literature should demand out of our genre fiction.

megladon8

11-08-2007, 03:41 AM

That sounds really great, D.

I shall keep my eye out.

jenniferofthejungle

11-08-2007, 03:45 AM

:pritch:

Prepare for one of the funniest novels I've read.

The funniest novel I've ever read is The Throwback by Tom Sharpe.

I'm afraid to read it again. What if it isn't as funny or as brilliant as I remember?

Kurosawa Fan

11-08-2007, 04:06 AM

i love the book. but i don't find it funny. in fact it's one of the more devastating reading experience i ever had. a great great read.

In the end it's rather tragic, but along the way I found most of the book hilarious.

SpaceOddity

11-08-2007, 07:09 AM

Who are your literary crushes?

Mine

Heathcliff. *dominant fixation*
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/8954/69321847ux0.jpg

John Thornton from North & South
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7526/northsouth208dl1ke6.jpg

I guess I don't fancy that many people. *shrug*

Kurosawa Fan

11-08-2007, 02:41 PM

I decided to read The Heart is a Lonely Hunter next.

Benny Profane

11-08-2007, 03:05 PM

I decided to read The Heart is a Lonely Hunter next.

Es muy bueno.

lovejuice

11-08-2007, 03:52 PM

Who are your literary crushes?

romy schneider is not exactly what i think of leni when i read the trial.

http://www.moviemania.sk/img/special/romy_schneider1.jpg

as perv. as this may sound, i always picture her in a sort of hentai nurse costume equiped also with that kinda attitude.

SpaceOddity

11-08-2007, 07:49 PM

How did you think it compared to the novel?

I wanted to thieve Keira's looks. *sniffs*

SpaceOddity

11-08-2007, 08:15 PM

I decided to read The Heart is a Lonely Hunter next.

*preferred The Ballad of the Sad Cafe*
*runs*

megladon8

11-08-2007, 11:42 PM

I've got about 60 pages left in "The Tenant".

I'm really enjoying it. It's taken a turn I didn't expect at all.

D_Davis

11-08-2007, 11:50 PM

While reading the first 20 or so pages of Theodore Sturgeon's More Than Human, I began to wonder about the proliferation of telepathic abilities in the science fiction novels written in the 1950s. It seems to be a common meme, a trope, used in a vast number of novels and stories of this era. Why is this? It is my hypothesis that the fantasy of telepathic communication, a superior and intensely intimate form of direct, mental communication, is a reaction to the decentralization of modern society. As people moved out into the suburbs, away from the common areas of the small town center and the public squares of the larger downtown areas, people started to feel more isolated, more alone, and more distant from one another. Just as the move towards the suburbs reflected a drastic change in the psyche of modern society, so too were the fantasies of the authors examining their society. What better way to combat the feelings of separation than with the ultimate form of oneness, of direct contact with another being's mental facilities?

SpaceOddity

11-09-2007, 06:07 AM

:|
so what you don't like about handmaid?

aside from that book, i've read surface which's not that good, and as mentioned her collection of shorts kinda suck. i however like handmaid enough to give her a few tries.

I was disappointed in Handmaid. But, my hatred was instigated by The Robber Bride. It's a ridiculous story about a woman who devotes herself to 'stealing' other's partners. And I know Atwood's work's often an exposure of female cruelty but the main character just embodies patriarchal paranoia.

*shakes fist*

Then there's her portrayal of Helen of Troy. The most sympathetic character in The Illiad reduced to a manipulative whore.
*apoplectic*

Lucky

11-09-2007, 06:21 AM

How is Helen more sympathetic than Priam?

SpaceOddity

11-09-2007, 06:51 AM

How is Helen more sympathetic than Priam?

Helen was universally despised and blamed. But, her actions were the decision of the gods. She was regarded as responsible despite being a pawn.
*feels sorry for her*

Duncan

11-09-2007, 06:58 AM

I never felt very sympathetic for Helen.

D_Davis

11-09-2007, 02:11 PM

So far, More Than Human is a dense and provacative read. Incredibly dense. The central characters are:

Lone - an idiot who has lived in the wild his whole life. He is a telepath, and can make people do things.

Twin black toddlers who can teleport. While playing they would often teleport out of their diapers and they would often get beat by their father for it. They get rescued from this child abuse by...

Janie - a six year old girl, the daughter of a whore, who is telekinetic.

These four freaks join together and stumble upon a deformed, mongoloid baby who is totally useless on the outside, but a brilliant genius on the inside. One night, Lone breaks into an electronics store and steals all of the books they sell. He takes them back to Janie, who then reads the books to Baby. Baby absorbs all of this information and then telepathically instructs Lone to build an anti-gravity device!

This books is dark, wild, and imaginative. It is incredibly bleak at times, and touching at others. Theodore Sturgeon is a mad genius.

monolith94

11-09-2007, 02:35 PM

I was disappointed in Handmaid. But, my hatred was instigated by The Robber Bride. It's a ridiculous story about a woman who devotes herself to 'stealing' other's partners. And I know Atwood's work's often an exposure of female cruelty but the main character just embodies patriarchal paranoia.

*shakes fist*

Then there's her portrayal of Helen of Troy. The most sympathetic character in The Illiad reduced to a manipulative whore.
*apoplectic*

What? What? Hector is easily the most sympathetic character in the Illiad.

The question of Helen of Troy is not one answered by The Illiad alone. For a less sympathetic portrayal of Helen, read Euripides' "The Trojan Women".

I haven't read any Atwood myself, though.

SpaceOddity

11-09-2007, 04:22 PM

What? What? Hector is easily the most sympathetic character in the Illiad.

Why do you think he's the most sympathetic?

Raiders

11-09-2007, 04:28 PM

I don't think there is a sympathetic character in the Illiad.

SpaceOddity

11-09-2007, 04:30 PM

D_Davis

11-09-2007, 04:42 PM

Do you think it's kinda symptomatic of secularism, too? Like telepathic fantasies as a manifestation of the need to be witnessed which a common/ shared belief in God in the past might've fulfilled. *rambles*

Totally, and I think this coincides with society's move to the suburbs, a time which also saw a rise in secularism. It is a fantasy we have, to be connected to something greater than ourselves, if not a God then a collective consciousness.

So, science fiction of the 1950s examined this idea through a lens of telepathic ability, how did mainstream fiction examine this? What kind of perspective did it lend to the problem?

SpaceOddity

11-09-2007, 04:53 PM

Totally, and I think this coincides with society's move to the suburbs, a time which also saw a rise in secularism. It is a fantasy we have, to be connected to something greater than ourselves, if not a God then a collective consciousness.

So, science fiction of the 1950s examined this idea through a lens of telepathic ability, how did mainstream fiction examine this? What kind of perspective did it lend to the problem?

If you mean the need to be seen, I guess mainstream lit became more orientated on internals in the last century. So the public kinda became the witness.

Marley

11-09-2007, 05:00 PM

So, I finally finished Atonement (only took me 3 months on and off) and it was incredible. Can't wait to see the film adaptation.

MadMan

11-09-2007, 07:42 PM

I'm looking to get back into reading, but I donno what books I should spend time on. Any recommendations would be welcomed folks.

D_Davis

11-09-2007, 08:00 PM

I'm looking to get back into reading, but I donno what books I should spend time on. Any recommendations would be welcomed folks.

What do you like?

I see that you have a Cowboy Beebop av, maybe you should check out some Raymond Chandler or some Dashiell Hammet? Red Harvest perhaps? It was the literary basis for Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and it is extremely well written.

MadMan

11-09-2007, 10:24 PM

What do you like?

I see that you have a Cowboy Beebop av, maybe you should check out some Raymond Chandler or some Dashiell Hammet? Red Harvest perhaps? It was the literary basis for Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and it is extremely well written.Everything except romance novels. Hmmm, I have seen films based on their works. I'll be on the lookout for Red Harvest. Thanks DD.

jesse

11-10-2007, 01:46 AM

I found the name dropping tedious.

And, when are you getting back to Wuthering Heights? :p I guess I find it interesting... not that I recognized that most of the souls Dante and Virgil encountered, but after reading a brief footnote I almost always marveled at the cleverness in how Dante decided a person should be punished (and often the arbitrariness). I also find the mixing of figures from classical mythology, Biblical mythology and history to be rather intriguing.

Not sure when I'll be returning to Wuthering, Wuthering, Wuthering Heights...

(*is listening to the Kate Bush song* :) )

jesse

11-10-2007, 01:51 AM

Me too. Too much of the book was spent listing off the punishments of people that Dante disliked, and the writing had no flair. However, I think I might have picked a bad translation. Well, Dante certainly gave himself the liberty to grind some axes, but the majority where historical figures and mythological characters, though his biases often show up there too (such as Odysseus, which many would regard as a noble hero, but in Dante's pro-Italian and by extension pro-Trojan worldview meant he was a figure deserving of punishment).

And reading Purgatorio I'm finding that the quality of the translation makes a huge difference (and it doesn't help that Purgatorio is more dull anyway).

SpaceOddity

11-10-2007, 03:25 AM

I guess I find it interesting... not that I recognized that most of the souls Dante and Virgil encountered, but after reading a brief footnote I almost always marveled at the cleverness in how Dante decided a person should be punished (and often the arbitrariness). I also find the mixing of figures from classical mythology, Biblical mythology and history to be rather intriguing.

Not sure when I'll be returning to Wuthering, Wuthering, Wuthering Heights...

(*is listening to the Kate Bush song* :) )

You never explained how I'm Austen-esque. :p
Is it my voice? *frets*

megladon8

11-10-2007, 10:30 PM

Finished Roland Topor's "The Tenant" last night. It was supremely unsettling from the get-go, and the ending was effective, if a little predictable.

I have begun reading "A Confederacy of Dunces" - I read the first chapter, and it is already quite funny. Ignatious is incredibly intelligent, but just completely socially inept. It's very funny.

SpaceOddity

11-11-2007, 12:41 PM

What about quotes from a fave book?

Wuthering Heights:

"I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas; they've gone through and through me like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind."

"heaven did not seem to be my home; and I broke my heart with weeping to come back to earth; and the angels were so angry that they flung me out"

"I wish I were a girl again, half savage and hardy, and free... Why am I so changed? I'm sure I should be myself were I once among the heather on those hills."

"The entire world is a dreadful collection of memoranda that she did exist, and that I have lost her!"

"he's always, always in my mind - not as a pleasure, any more than I am a pleasure to myself - but, as my own being"

"I'm wearying to escape into that glorious world, and to be always there; not seeing it dimly through tears, and yearning for it through the walls of an aching heart; but really with it, and in it."

*covets Heathcliff*

lovejuice

11-11-2007, 05:45 PM

lifted directly from the net. i don't usually highlight my book.

on happiness

"If Kerenin had been a person instead of a dog, he would surely have long since said to Tereza, 'Look, I'm sick and tired of carrying that roll in my mouth every day. Can't you come up with something different?' And therein lies the whole of man's plight. Human time does not turn in a circle; it runs ahead in a straight line. That is why man cannot be happy: happiness is the longing for repetition."

On love

"The brain appears to possess a special area which we might call poetic memory and which records everything that charms or touches us, that makes our lives beautiful... Their love story did not begin until afterwards: she fell ill and he was unable to send her home as he had the others. Kneeling by her as she lay sleeping in his bed, he realized that someone had sent her downstream in a bulrush basket. I have said before that metaphors are dangerous. Love begins with a metaphor. Which is to say, love begins at the point when a woman enters her first word into our poetic memory."

on compassion

"He tried to picture himself living in an ideal world with the young woman from the dream. He sees Tereza walking past the open windows of their ideal house. She is alone and stops to look in at him with an infinitely sad expression in her eyes. He cannot withstand her glance. Again, he feels her pain in his own heart. Again, he falls prey to compassion and sinks deep into her soul. He leaps out of the window, but she tells him bitterly to stay where he feels happy, making those abrupt, angular movements that so annoyed and displeased him. He grabs her nervous hands and presses them between his own to calm them. And he knows that time and again he will abandon the house of his happiness, time and again abandon his paradise and the woman from his dream and betray the "Es muss sein!" of his love to go off with Tereza, the woman born of six laughable fortuities.

on being fucking right

"'You mean you don't want to fight the occupation of your country?' She would have liked to tell them that behind Communism, Fascism, behind all occupations and invasions lurks a more basic, pervasive evil and that the image of evil was a parade of people marching by with raised fists and shouting identical syllables in unison."

SpaceOddity

11-11-2007, 09:33 PM

Brideshead Revisited *sniffs*

"I should like to bury something precious in every place where I've been happy and then, when I'm old and ugly and miserable, I could come back and dig it up and remember."

"perhaps all our loves are merely hints and symbols; vagabond-language scrawled on gate-posts and paving-stones along the weary road that others have tramped before us; perhaps you and I are types and this sadness which sometimes falls between us springs from disappointment in our search, each straining through and beyond the other, snatching a glimpse now and then of the shadow which turns the corner always a pace or two ahead of us."

"I felt that I was leaving part of myself behind, and that wherever I went afterwards I should feel the lack of it, and search for it hopelessly, as ghosts are said to do, frequenting the spots where they buried material treasures without which they cannot pay their way to the nether world."

"That was the change in her from ten years ago; that, indeed, was her reward, this haunting, magical sadness which spoke straight to the heart and struck silence; it was the completion of her beauty."

Melville

11-12-2007, 03:31 AM

From Moby Dick, mostly sticking with at least partially humorous quotations:

On cannibals:
"Cannibals? Who is not a cannibal? I tell you it will be more tolerable for the Fejee that salted down a lean missionary in his cellar against a coming famine; it will be more tolerable for that provident Fejee, I say, in the day of judgement, then for thee, civilized and enlightened gourmand, who nailest geese to the ground and feastest on their bloated livers in thy pate-de-foie-gras."

Arguing for the sperm whale's water spout being vapor:
"He is both ponderous and profound. And I am convinced that from the heads of all ponderous profound beings, such as Plato, Pyrrho, the Devil, Jupiter, Dante, and so on, there always goes up a certain semi-visible steam, while in the act of thinking deep thoughts. While composing a little treatise on Eternity, I had the curiosity to place a mirror before me; and ere long saw reflected there, a curious involved worming and undulation in the atmosphere over my head; this seems an additional argument for the above supposition."

On the significance of Moby Dick's whiteness:
"The palsied universe lies before us a leper."

Ahab on misery:
"I am impatient of all misery in others that is not mad. Thou should'st go mad, blacksmith; say, why dost thou not go mad? How can'st thou endure without being mad? Do the heavens yet hate thee, that thou can'st not go mad?"