The Act of Killing (Joshua Oppenheimer, Christine Cynn, Anonymous)

[Derek]

http://www.wearemoviegeeks.com/wp-content/uploads/the-act-of-killing__large-560x799.jpg

[Derek]

This was amazing. I can't recommend it enough.

[number8]

The movie that broke Match Cut!

[Winston*]

Started to talk about the film when I got home after seeing it and broke down crying. Never done that before. I will not see a better film this year.

[Boner M]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I need to give it another viewing; it was during TIFF last year and there was a prominent critic falling asleep nearby me at certain points, which was incredible distracting (and he ended up filing a review, lol).

[elixir]

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I need to give it another viewing; it was during TIFF last year and there was a prominent critic falling asleep nearby me at certain points, which was incredible distracting (and he ended up filing a review, lol).
gonna need a name here :P

[Boner M]

Surname rhymes with either "low key", "blotchy" or "Ho Chi". (not sure myself)

Also before the film started he said "boy did I like Argo!" to another journalist.

#criticgate

[elixir]

Thanks, Wats...not really familiar with him. :)

[Watashi]

It's James Rocchi.

[Boner M]

Was reluctant to name'n'shame since I once wrote a paid review of a film I missed the first 20 mins of.

[number8]

Surname rhymes with either "low key", "blotchy" or "Ho Chi". (not sure myself)

It's the first one. Source: used to know him, had many post-screening conversations with him. Well, he did the talking, I stood in the same circle, really.

[number8]

Wow, fantastic: Drafthouse Films, VHX and Vice are teaming up to release this in Indonesian theaters for free.

[Qrazy]

Yeah this one is just sort of undeniable.

[ledfloyd]

I'm afraid to watch this.

[Grouchy]

I forgot to vote for this one? I saw it a while back, very powerful stuff.

[dreamdead]

Absolutely stunning.

Seen a few articles state that it doesn't do anything that Morris's The Thin Blue Line didn't do, but such a notion feels inconceivable. The utter indictment of a whole society, how at ease they are demanding bribes from civilians on camera, is just haunting. Likely the best thing I'll see from last year.

Was amazed at how many people are listed as anonymous in the credits--anyone know how much retribution any of the crew could face for participating in the project?

[Spinal]

This was even more bizarre, harrowing and disturbing than I imagined it would be.

[wigwam]

I can't pull the trigger on watching this. It looks so boring and irritating and I don't trust any of the hype.

[Qrazy]

I can't pull the trigger on watching this. It looks so boring and irritating and I don't trust any of the hype.

Your loss.

[Watashi]

I can't pull the trigger on watching this. It looks so boring and irritating and I don't trust any of the hype.

Well, it's no Devil's Due.

[Ezee E]

I can't pull the trigger on watching this. It looks so boring and irritating and I don't trust any of the hype.

The preview IS boring. The movie is not.

[wigwam]

thx, E, that is helpful, I'll try it again sometime soon

[Henry Gale]

I'm not sure I ever saw a trailer for this, but the actual film itself is definitely one of the more mesmerizing, gut-wrenching and unique experiences I may have ever had with the medium. (Simply saying movie or documentary doesn't really grasp how one-of-a-kind the exploration of the mission it sets its subjects on eventually blurs and transcends all of that as anything so easy to define or even witness. Especially when you also take into consideration the significant repercussions it might have beyond the what we see in the film itself.)

[wigwam]

:|

[Grouchy]

Negative rape.

[Watashi]

Great stuff (http://badassdigest.com/2014/01/22/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-act-of-killing-and-the-real-meaning-of-impact/)

[Izzy Black]

Seen a few articles state that it doesn't do anything that Morris's The Thin Blue Line didn't do

Um.... lol?

[Ezee E]

Great stuff (http://badassdigest.com/2014/01/22/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-act-of-killing-and-the-real-meaning-of-impact/)

Why does he write in caps? I didn't even read beyond that first paragraph.

[number8]

Because he's Hulk.

[Ezee E]

Because he's Hulk.

Obnoxious.

[Spinal]

The power of the film is that it is a simple exercise in empathy. The film is not about an accurate representation of events. It is about how those events are perceived in the minds of those who played a part in horrific violence. They are asked to bring those memories and distortions out of their minds and actually give them form. They are asked to reflect on what they see. They are asked to consider the events from the perspective of others. If you're looking for a thorough history of these events, then you are seriously barking up the wrong tree. Meanwhile, you're missing an utterly fascinating exploration of human psychology.

[number8]

That's weird. I just noticed that I never posted this (http://www.artboiled.com/2013/the-unsettling-humanity-of-the-act-of-killing/)here.

[Spinal]

That's weird. I just noticed that I never posted this (http://www.artboiled.com/2013/the-unsettling-humanity-of-the-act-of-killing/)here.

Wow, this was a great read. Thanks for your perspective.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Yeah, this is just incredible. I had prepared myself, but still walked away shaken and nauseated. Oddly, I think what surprised me the most was just how prevalent the American influence was and still is to these men. That brought about a bit of shame that I wasn't expecting.

[Q & T]

Yeah, this is just incredible. I had prepared myself, but still walked away shaken and nauseated. Oddly, I think what surprised me the most was just how prevalent the American influence was and still is to these men. That brought about a bit of shame that I wasn't expecting.

Yeah, when Anwar kept talking about recreating his favorite scenes in different murders, I just felt even more horrified.

[Pop Trash]

Who came up with the musical numbers? Was that concept from the Indonesian 'gangsters' or was it just some affectation from Oppenheimer et al?

[Stay Puft]

Baffling, frustrating, fascinating, distressing, depressing, outrageous, somehow still hilarious at times... been a long time since I've seen something that provoked such strong reactions. I can understand why the likes of Morris and Herzog were so quick to champion it. Oppenheimer's treatment of his subject is incisive, thoughtful, original... surely this is what documentary filmmaking is all about. I was reminded of Herzog's quote about cinéma vérité: a documentary filmmaker must not be a fly on the wall, but a hornet that stings.

I often found myself muttering "this is insane" in response to what I was seeing on the screen. There was one scene where one of the gangsters was casually talking about raping young girls, and he almost seemed to be pining for the good old days, and I wanted to projectile vomit all over the screen so I didn't have to watch anymore of it.

But what really disturbed me were the Pancasila Youth rallies. Anwar and company are wrapped in a cozy narrative blanket of the evils of communism. Not too long after I saw this, I also saw Far from Vietnam, which spends a lot of time looking at the parades and protests in America. The camera lingers on one young gentleman for a while, as he screams about the moral failings of the Vietnam war protestors, and screams about how communism is evil, how communists are going to take everything they hold dear, how communism must be crushed, etc. But Marker, with his usual wit and insight, recognizes that the war isn't really about what everybody is screaming about: it's just a nice story. And that's where the brilliance of Oppenheimer's device comes in, the meta-narrative element of challenging the story Anwar participates in by making him participate in a new one, a deconstruction of the propaganda that enabled him and continues to protect him.

And that's also where the real horror of Oppenheimer's film comes in: if Anwar is an actor in a story, where does he actually stop being an actor? The ending is delirious, confusing... I remember wanting to scream so many times throughout the film, and how almost hopeful I felt when Anwar seemed to have something of a breakdown when playing the victim in a torture scene. But even Oppenheimer points out that he couldn't truly feel what his victims felt, because he knew he was shooting a movie, and wasn't really going to die. Anwar walks around at the end, dry-heaving as he remembers details of his past, but that's hardly satisfying. What did I really want in that moment? Anwar to recognize that what he did was wrong, so that the film can end on some morally acceptable conclusion? Does he even recognize that what he did was wrong? Would that even change anything? I don't need a film to tell me genocide is evil or something. I watched the Vice documentary afterwards, the brief interview with Morris and Herzog, curious to hear what they would have to say about the film, and it was Morris who crystallized this thought for me. He says we don't learn anything, and that's what has haunted me since. Anwar is still acting, looking to Oppenheimer as his director. I don't know how to unpack any of this and it's terrifying.

[amberlita]

Started to talk about the film when I got home after seeing it and broke down crying. Never done that before. I will not see a better film this year.

This. THIS.

Very glad to have seen this before the Oscars tomorrow, which I've felt exceedingly lukewarm about since I hadn't felt like I'd seen a truly great film all year, despite the insistence that this has been a banner year for quality filmmaking.

And now I've seen this movie. It won't win best picture. It will most certainly win best documentary. But it is the best movie of the year.

[baby doll]

Not to be that guy, but while I found the movie interesting enough, I'm a bit mystified by the enthusiasm you guys have been expressing for it. The depths of corruption that film uncovers are astounding (like that dude proudly shaking down Chinese shopkeepers on camera), but I didn't find the manner in which this information is presented to be all that inventive.

The staged recreations become more elaborate and gorier, though not any more effective or informative. (The use of a teddy bear as a prop was the sole effective choice they made.) To me, the most surprising thing about Anwar's fake epiphany is that it took him so bloody long; it's like he wanted to make sure that Oppenheimer had enough material before reaching a conclusion that was already obvious to everyone.

Plus, there's a lot of Michael Moore-ish material yukking at the tacky taste of corrupt officials and fascist leaders who are clueless enough to describe their teenage caddy's vagina while miked.

(As an Armond White-ish counter-recommendation, I'd cite Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media as a film that manages to impart a lot of information about the genocide in East Timor in the process of analyzing the US media's complicity in such atrocities, and manages to do so without any fake blood.)

[Izzy Black]

I'm not really sure the main function of the film was to impart information about corruption. Its status as a historical document is a bit complicated in that respect. It's not exactly a straightforward documentary in any traditional sense. What I found effective about the technique/form was the gradual blurring of reality and the resulting unreliability of what we were seeing as we move further and further into this dark, surrealist world of the minds of these monsters. Our sense of reality in the narrative slowly unravels through the use of jarring cuts and strange juxtapositions. The shakedown of the Chinese shopkeeper, for instance, is sandwiched between scenes of confession and reenactment, complicating our ability to determine whether what we're witnessing is happening in real time or yet another reenactment.

The film's emotional centerpiece for me, without question, was the confrontation between one of the victims' family members from the film crew and the perpetrators, which begins with the victim's step son going into a passive aggressive monologue casually detailing the horror of their crimes, followed by a devastating reenactment, where, at one point, the reenactment takes on an overwhelming sense of reality and meaning for the victim, and he seems to be legitimately afraid for his life. The reenactment itself was a form of catharsis for him because it allowed him, for better or worse, to relive the experience of his father's murder. I honestly couldn't believe what I was watching. At times, I literally thought I was watching a snuff film.

At some level, the film indicts the audience (and the film's authors) in our collective participation in the film, pulling us further into the madness, negotiating complex layers of meaning about the nature of truth through fiction, between catharsis, reenactment, empathy, and identification, but while underlying the dangers of the very same medium by identifying the problems of the depiction of violence and its perpetuation in cinema, and how it was exploited by these men to rationalize their crimes and to promote myth and propaganda. I somewhat share your skepticism about the authenticity of Anwar's remorse and the scope of his catharsis in the end, but for me, this just goes into the film's meditation on the complex relationship between cinema and violence.

[Grouchy]

Plus, there's a lot of Michael Moore-ish material yukking at the tacky taste of corrupt officials and fascist leaders who are clueless enough to describe their teenage caddy's vagina while miked.
I have no idea what you mean here. You think that is staged?

[Gizmo]

Not to be that guy, but while I found the movie interesting enough, I'm a bit mystified by the enthusiasm you guys have been expressing for it. The depths of corruption that film uncovers are astounding (like that dude proudly shaking down Chinese shopkeepers on camera), but I didn't find the manner in which this information is presented to be all that inventive.

The staged recreations become more elaborate and gorier, though not any more effective or informative. (The use of a teddy bear as a prop was the sole effective choice they made.) To me, the most surprising thing about Anwar's fake epiphany is that it took him so bloody long; it's like he wanted to make sure that Oppenheimer had enough material before reaching a conclusion that was already obvious to everyone.

Plus, there's a lot of Michael Moore-ish material yukking at the tacky taste of corrupt officials and fascist leaders who are clueless enough to describe their teenage caddy's vagina while miked.

(As an Armond White-ish counter-recommendation, I'd cite Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media as a film that manages to impart a lot of information about the genocide in East Timor in the process of analyzing the US media's complicity in such atrocities, and manages to do so without any fake blood.)

I feel like you did. Sure it was decent enough, but a lot of it seemed forced and manipulative or staged, and that's not counting all the actual staged bits. Maybe a bit emotional/tragic/sickening at times, but did feel a bit snuff-y, as Izzy Black also noted.

[Pop Trash]

I felt that way despite being pretty into it overall. There is a bit of a detached/educated/Western p.o.v. here and it's clear the subjects are completely ignorant of how media works. I guess it's a case of give them enough rope to hang themselves, but these guys are mentally vacant when they aren't outright drunk and I imagine they took all the suggestions at face value.

[baby doll]

I have no idea what you mean here. You think that is staged?Just that Oppenheimer seemed to be reaching for low-hanging fruit in these scenes.

[Grouchy]

Just that Oppenheimer seemed to be reaching for low-hanging fruit in these scenes.
But... the film is a documentary. You want them to leave the most shocking moments on the cutting room floor?

[baby doll]

But... the film is a documentary. You want them to leave the most shocking moments on the cutting room floor?Personally I didn't think it was that shocking that corrupt officials have bad taste, and even before the fascist youth leader mentioned his caddy's vagina, it was already blatantly obvious that these girls were up for sale. It's overkill.

[baby doll]

I'm not really sure the main function of the film was to impart information about corruption. Its status as a historical document is a bit complicated in that respect. It's not exactly a straightforward documentary in any traditional sense. What I found effective about the technique/form was the gradual blurring of reality and the resulting unreliability of what we were seeing as we move further and further into this dark, surrealist world of the minds of these monsters. Our sense of reality in the narrative slowly unravels through the use of jarring cuts and strange juxtapositions. The shakedown of the Chinese shopkeeper, for instance, is sandwiched between scenes of confession and reenactment, complicating our ability to determine whether what we're witnessing is happening in real time or yet another reenactment.

The film's emotional centerpiece for me, without question, was the confrontation between one of the victims' family members from the film crew and the perpetrators, which begins with the victim's step son going into a passive aggressive monologue casually detailing the horror of their crimes, followed by a devastating reenactment, where, at one point, the reenactment takes on an overwhelming sense of reality and meaning for the victim, and he seems to be legitimately afraid for his life. The reenactment itself was a form of catharsis for him because it allowed him, for better or worse, to relive the experience of his father's murder. I honestly couldn't believe what I was watching. At times, I literally thought I was watching a snuff film.

At some level, the film indicts the audience (and the film's authors) in our collective participation in the film, pulling us further into the madness, negotiating complex layers of meaning about the nature of truth through fiction, between catharsis, reenactment, empathy, and identification, but while underlying the dangers of the very same medium by identifying the problems of the depiction of violence and its perpetuation in cinema, and how it was exploited by these men to rationalize their crimes and to promote myth and propaganda. I somewhat share your skepticism about the authenticity of Anwar's remorse and the scope of his catharsis in the end, but for me, this just goes into the film's meditation on the complex relationship between cinema and violence.For me, the way that the movie alternates between the recreations and apparently unstaged material was its biggest weakness, as the film doesn't really build or go anywhere; it just keeps piling on more "shocking" footage. Individual sequences are often fascinating (like the confrontation with the actor whose father was murdered and the killers' response to his suggestions), but when a film opens with paramilitary killers proudly reenacting their crimes on camera, it's hard to be shocked by anything after that.

[Izzy Black]

For me, the way that the movie alternates between the recreations and apparently unstaged material was its biggest weakness, as the film doesn't really build or go anywhere; it just keeps piling on more "shocking" footage. Individual sequences are often fascinating (like the confrontation with the actor whose father was murdered and the killers' response to his suggestions), but when a film opens with paramilitary killers proudly reenacting their crimes on camera, it's hard to be shocked by anything after that.

Neither the point of the movie nor my interest in it was about how much more "shocked" I could be as it went on. It was more the formal and emotional development of the film's themes that I discussed in my post that I fond interesting.

[Qrazy]

I felt that way despite being pretty into it overall. There is a bit of a detached/educated/Western p.o.v. here and it's clear the subjects are completely ignorant of how media works. I guess it's a case of give them enough rope to hang themselves, but these guys are mentally vacant when they aren't outright drunk and I imagine they took all the suggestions at face value.

That's the point? These people are mentally/emotionally/spiritually vacant. They also run a country and killed hundreds of thousands of people.

[Qrazy]

Neither the point of the movie nor my interest in it was about how much more "shocked" I could be as it went on. It was more the formal and emotional development of the film's themes that I discussed in my post that I fond interesting.

You're forgetting, baby doll doesn't care about content. He wanted to be more emotionally invested with these murderers and rapists like he was with the KKK commiserators. More scenes of Commies in black face damn it!

Sorry BD, couldn't resist.

[Pop Trash]

That's the point? These people are mentally/emotionally/spiritually vacant. They also run a country and killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Those two guys don't run Indonesia. What the hell are you talking about?

[Qrazy]

Those two guys don't run Indonesia. What the hell are you talking about?

I did not mean literally those featured are at the top of the governing body, just that Pemuda Pancasila is still a very powerful force in Indonesia.

[baby doll]

Neither the point of the movie nor my interest in it was about how much more "shocked" I could be as it went on. It was more the formal and emotional development of the film's themes that I discussed in my post that I fond interesting.Personally, I didn't feel any sense of development; it was just more and more of the same.

[Izzy Black]

Personally, I didn't feel any sense of development; it was just more and more of the same.

I found the film progresses in very clear stages (arguably in a kind of three-act structure) in terms of its almost surrealist elements, the confrontation in the emotional centerpiece of the film, and the arch of the lead and the eventual (complicated) catharsis.

[Ivan Drago]

More than a year has gone by since I saw this for the first time, and the sound of Anwar's retching and gagging at the end still echoes in my head to this day.

It might be my favorite documentary of all time.