The Walking Dead (Season 4)

[Dukefrukem]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSi2fJALDyQ

[Henry Gale]

http://images.amcnetworks.com/blogs.amctv.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TWD-S4-Key-Art-1280x965.jpg

Thought the premiere wasn't bad, but definitely nowhere near great or exactly excitement-instilling for this season to come. It had some small poignant moments, paired with some big super-dumb™ moments. Some fruitful plot ideas that didn't quite seem pan out or resolve as strongly, and some really basic character stuff that was more surprisingly gratifying than I expected (especially since these characters don't exactly the most dimension to them).

Basically it was the most exemplary episode of the show in its current state that I could have imagined seeing, and there it is right out of the gate. Such is this show, I guess. It's an expectation-meeter, for better or worse.

[Dukefrukem]

bump

[Dukefrukem]

merge <3

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?4859-The-Walking-Dead-(Season-4)

[Raiders]

I thought it was one of the best episodes yet. Loved the opening and the way the show gradually introduced information about the new order of the community, Michonne's obsession with the governor and the distinction between the community life and the outside life, bleeding (literally) into one another at the rather grahpic and disturbing method of preventing the walkers from overruning the fence. The grocery store action set piece was really well executed, especially loved the almost poetic shots of zombies falling from the sky. I also loved the final scene between Rick and Kerry Conran's cameo character who seems a more pathetic and sad version of a cross between the Governor's obsession and Rick's lingering trauma of what has been taken from him.

I am really looking forward to the Gimple era.

[Ezee E]

While the grocery invasion scene may very well be the best action sequence compiled on the show, doesn't it feel like the entire episode was a formula? Nothing really progressed, everything was just re-established, which I suppose may be the point. It'll remind everyone where we're at, while also bringing in new viewers, but this is the difference between a series like this and something great like Breaking Bad.

But yeah, what a great action scene in the grocery store! I shouldn't come across so negative on the show, because this portion was awesome.

[Spun Lepton]

Grocery store.

I found it a little tough to swallow that not a single zombie had yet to fall through the roof, then all of a sudden all KINDS of holes tear open all over the place! I mean, understand the dramatic reasons behind such a choice, and I otherwise enjoyed the scene, but I thought they could've handled that better with maybe a shot of a zombie that had fallen through a hole a long time ago, or just having the whole roof collapse at once and then have the group have to deal with the remaining horde. Very minor nitpick, though. Really enjoyed it. I also want to say if the reanimated dude from the end runs, I will be pretty disappointed.

[Ezee E]

By the way, how did that many zombies end up on the roof?

[Raiders]

By the way, how did that many zombies end up on the roof?

Helicopter crash.

[Ezee E]

Helicopter crash.

All the helicopters I've seen only fit 4-6 people.

[Raiders]

All the helicopters I've seen only fit 4-6 people.

I was joking. It didn't really make sense.

[Qrazy]

All the helicopters I've seen only fit 4-6 people.

They had zombie babies which obviously grow at faster than normal rates. Duh.

[Dukefrukem]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/funny-walking-dead-memes-0.jpg?w=500&h=300&crop=1

[Dukefrukem]

No this is the best one yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNxvo8AcpQQ

[Spun Lepton]

By the way, how did that many zombies end up on the roof?

Well, I suppose it's possible there was a group of survivors on the roof when the helicopter crashed.

[Ezee E]

Well, I suppose it's possible there was a group of survivors on the roof when the helicopter crashed.

There's a sad thought!

Time for survival... This guy fucking sucks at landing a helicopter. AND WE'RE DEAD.

[Qrazy]

This show is still so herpderp.

[amberlita]

I was more emotionally moved by the piglet sacrifice scene than the last 50 human deaths on this show.

[D_Davis]

This show is still so herpderp.

Then why are you watching it?

If you don't like something, don't watch it.

[Raiders]

Not sure of the issue. It's on the nose and corny, but I find it endearingly dedicated. I prefer this to the group bickering we got all through the frequently irritating and interminable second season.

[Qrazy]

Then why are you watching it?

If you don't like something, don't watch it.

Because it became tolerable again in Season 3 but now it's back to stupidity. The blood spraying suddenly in Rick's face from the piglet was the dumbest shit. That whole problem was idiotic. The amount of time it takes to stab a bunch of people in the head while lined up against a wall is significantly shorter than the length of time it takes for a bunch more to over run a wall. Plus we have an 'oh my god the wall is coming down' moment! Followed by a 10 minute interlude while they round up the pigs and bring the car around. It's such false drama bullshit garbage.

Also Rick's don't touch me to his son! Follow by just hugging him and then letting him go back and HUG/TOUCH the other two people. They are doing a shit job of isolation and containment for people making such a big deal about it. This happened with a number of people.

[Qrazy]

Not sure of the issue. It's on the nose and corny, but I find it endearingly dedicated. I prefer this to the group bickering we got all through the frequently irritating and interminable second season.

Yes well, season two was an all time low.

[Russ]

Because it became tolerable again in Season 3 but now it's back to stupidity. The blood spraying suddenly in Rick's face from the piglet was the dumbest shit. That whole problem was idiotic. The amount of time it takes to stab a bunch of people in the head while lined up against a wall is significantly shorter than the length of time it takes for a bunch more to over run a wall. Plus we have an 'oh my god the wall is coming down' moment! Followed by a 10 minute interlude while they round up the pigs and bring the car around. It's such false drama bullshit garbage.

Also Rick's don't touch me to his son! Follow by just hugging him and then letting him go back and HUG/TOUCH the other two people. They are doing a shit job of isolation and containment for people making such a big deal about it.

Urm, just how much realism do you expect from shows that are about THE WALKING DEAD?

Just enough that one can overlook the genre premise, or enough that the protagonists aren't equally as silly?

Please don't mistake me for someone who's defending the show. But I'm with Daniel: why the heck are you even watching it? Oh, right. Because it used to be tolerable.

http://i1.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[D_Davis]

Because it became tolerable again in Season 3 but now it's back to stupidity. The blood spraying suddenly in Rick's face from the piglet was the dumbest shit. That whole problem was idiotic. The amount of time it takes to stab a bunch of people in the head while lined up against a wall is significantly shorter than the length of time it takes for a bunch more to over run a wall. Plus we have an 'oh my god the wall is coming down' moment! Followed by a 10 minute interlude while they round up the pigs and bring the car around. It's such false drama bullshit garbage.

Also Rick's don't touch me to his son! Follow by just hugging him and then letting him go back and HUG/TOUCH the other two people. They are doing a shit job of isolation and containment for people making such a big deal about it. This happened with a number of people.

That makes sense.

I liked S3 quite a bit. Only watched a bit of S2 off and on - seemed like nothing much happened.

It's still been downhill since the first episode, though. :)

[Qrazy]

Urm, just how much realism do you expect from shows that are about THE WALKING DEAD?

Just enough that one can overlook the genre premise, or enough that the protagonists aren't equally as silly?

Please don't mistake me for someone who's defending the show. But I'm with Daniel: why the heck are you even watching it? Oh, right. Because it used to be tolerable.

http://i1.ifrm.com/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

That is PRECISELY my problem with it. It makes pretenses towards naturalism but then indulges in standard genre cliche. I would rather it embrace it's ridiculousness stylistically or alternatively take itself as earnestly as it pretends to. Which is to say, don't generate false drama (season two well scene was the most egregious example).

[Ezee E]

It was very effective for me. Lincoln is showing off his best work yet here, being completely overwhelmed by all, but still trying to preserve face. It's quite the season so far, without the need of outside forces.

[Qrazy]

Hershel: Guys you don't understand, no one else can distribute tea the way I can. It has to be me.

Herpderp.

Daryl: Oh man the camera needs to crane out, I better stay parked while it does that.

Derpdoodadeeda.

Some new Dumbass: I can't turn my head to the side, I have to cough blood right into your face.

DERPPPAPDPFJAEKLF::FAjld

[Ezee E]

Getting a cold and watching this episode are not ideal.

[amberlita]

This "virus" that is going around the camp has a ridiculous mortality rate. Every single person dies from it. Seriously. That's a worse case fatality rate than Ebola.

[Dukefrukem]

Hershel: Guys you don't understand, no one else can distribute tea the way I can. It has to be me.

Herpderp.

Daryl: Oh man the camera needs to crane out, I better stay parked while it does that.

Derpdoodadeeda.

Some new Dumbass: I can't turn my head to the side, I have to cough blood right into your face.

DERPPPAPDPFJAEKLF::FAjld

Yup. These episodes are so fucking poorly written. So far Season 4 is the worst. On top of that, Comcast didn't record the last part of episode 3. Did it run longer than it usually does? Did I miss any important dialog between Rick and Carol?

[amberlita]

Yup. These episodes are so fucking poorly written. So far Season 4 is the worst. On top of that, Comcast didn't record the last part of episode 3. Did it run longer than it usually does? Did I miss any important dialog between Rick and Carol?

Yeah.

Carol admitted to Rick, rather coldly and casually, that she burned those two people. And then she walked away without saying another word. Because she's hardcore and stuff.

[Dukefrukem]

Haha.. so I missed the most important part of the episode.

[Ezee E]

Seems out of character though. I don't think she could do anything that crazy. I could see her killing in the idea of defense, but not pulling them out to the back and burning them alive.

It does make her scene where she shrieks at Tyreese a little more significant.

Also, did you all know that episode was written by Robert Kirkman?

Last, despite a good amount of deaths this week, none were by a zombie.

I guess I'm the only one that liked this episode. The despair, frustration, and desperation are at their highest here. People are doing things without a moral conscience now. I like it.

[Ezee E]

I've decided that show's a whole lot better when Maggie and Glenn aren't on it.

[Henry Gale]

I've decided that show's a whole lot better when Maggie and Glenn aren't on it.

I haven't seen the last three episodes, but they're probably the only characters I care about whatsoever. And yet I kinda agree with you, they don't almost don't fit the show, with their constant reminders to me of how human beings behave.

EDIT: Maybe I care about Darryl too. But even then I forgot about him when I wrote this post.

[Qrazy]

Andrew Lincoln is seriously the worst. Look at the way he stupidly inclines his head when he's being intense.

[Ezee E]

I haven't seen the last three episodes, but they're probably the only characters I care about whatsoever. And yet I kinda agree with you, they don't almost don't fit the show, with their constant reminders to me of how human beings behave.

They could fit the show, but they've had the same story since they initially fell in love with each other in season 2.

Everyone else has changed. In a downtridden way. Could you imagine if Rick Grimes was played by a better actor? That's a hell of a part that simply isn't getting the talent it should. But it's still working for me.

No character is a standout to me. But the ensemble works, not sure how that happens.

[megladon8]

So far this is the best season. Even better than 3.

[Spun Lepton]

Aside from a few nitpicks, I'm enjoying the season as much as I did S3.

Qrazy, why do you keep watching it if you hate it so much? I mean, if I were watching whatever Canadian show you have available on your special Canadian TVs, I dunno, like The Oh Geez Maple Syrup and Hockey Report, and I didn't like it, I wouldn't keep watching it.

Just sayin'.

:)

[Qrazy]

Aside from a few nitpicks, I'm enjoying the season as much as I did S3.

Qrazy, why do you keep watching it if you hate it so much? I mean, if I were watching whatever Canadian show you have available on your special Canadian TVs, I dunno, like The Oh Geez Maple Syrup and Hockey Report, and I didn't like it, I wouldn't keep watching it.

Just sayin'.

:)

Because I'm a completionist and have an inescapable compulsion to finish watching everything I begin.

[Spun Lepton]

"The Walking Dead renewed for a 17th season? Cool!"

"Did I just hear a scream from Montreal?"

[Spun Lepton]

All right. I'll face up to one problem I've had with the series for a while. Mind you, this doesn't keep me from enjoying it. As many of you probably already realize, zombies are probably my favorite movie/tv monster, so I'm not hard to please.

Rick and the group learned early on if they smeared themselves with zombie guts, they were less likely to get attacked. Why don't they do this more frequently when they're out and about? Sure, it's gross, but if it's a matter of life-and-dead-and-undeath, you'd think they'd do it a little more often.

Of course, with these new "sick" zombies, that idea would be thrown out the window.

[Qrazy]

All right. I'll face up to one problem I've had with the series for a while. Mind you, this doesn't keep me from enjoying it. As many of you probably already realize, zombies are probably my favorite movie/tv monster, so I'm not hard to please.

Rick and the group learned early on if they smeared themselves with zombie guts, they were less likely to get attacked. Why don't they do this more frequently when they're out and about? Sure, it's gross, but if it's a matter of life-and-dead-and-undeath, you'd think they'd do it a little more often.

Of course, with these new "sick" zombies, that idea would be thrown out the window.

Because this show doesn't believe in attention to detail or continuity concerns.

[Ezee E]

I don't really understand the "sick" zombies.

I kind of just put that one up to complete uncertainty of the group I guess.

[Spun Lepton]

How long could a virus survive in a corpse? I'm under the impression it could be a while.

[Dead & Messed Up]

How long could a virus survive in a corpse? I'm under the impression it could be a while.

In most cases, only a few hours. Under proper refrigerated conditions, the max is around 16 days for the HIV virus.

Source. (http://www1.paho.org/english/dd/pin/Number21_article01.htm)

Then again, while zombies are putrefying, they'd still need a functional cardiovascular system to be able to move, which suggests oxygenated blood, which suggests a viable environment for pathogens, and let's also not forget that this is fucking Walking Dead.

[Ezee E]

All bets are off to me as far as trying to describe the science of what's going on. That's why I'm going with it.

It is a good point on why they don't cover themselves with guts. But then again, covering yourself with guts seems like a disgusting thing to do. I'd rather risk life. :lol:

[Spun Lepton]

Yes, despite all its problems, there have been few shows that have made me care about the characters as well as Walking Dead has. Given how ready they are to knock off lead characters, there's always a sense of dread. Well, unless it's Rick or Daryl, they're pretty much untouchable.

[Raiders]

Thought the specific focus this last episode had, not to mention the greatness of Wilson (seriously, how much does he shame Lincoln like, every episode?) was a nice change of pace from the first few episodes. The reveal at the end was hilarious, and I think intentionally so.

[Spun Lepton]

Prediction.

Given how much WATER!!! they've shown what with all the episodes featuring WATER!!! and moments with WATER!!! I think the virus is infecting people through the WATER!!!!!

[Ezee E]

Prediction.

Given how much WATER!!! they've shown what with all the episodes featuring WATER!!! and moments with WATER!!! I think the virus is infecting people through the WATER!!!!!

Then everyone would have it. Because everyone drinks the water.

[Spun Lepton]

Then everyone would have it. Because everyone drinks the water.

Second prediction.

Non-sickies like Rick and Herschel are immune.

[Dukefrukem]

Seriously? The Governor fuckin returns?

[Ezee E]

Seriously? The Governor fuckin returns?

Duh. Why wouldn't he?

Happens in the comics too.

But yeah, the intro of him at the end was kind of comical. He just isn't as villainous enough to truly earn that.

[Dukefrukem]

Just didn't figure it would be so soon.

And could it be more obvious that Carol will show up to save the day at some point in this season?

[Ezee E]

Just didn't figure it would be so soon.

And could it be more obvious that Carol will show up to save the day at some point in this season?

Oh no. I didn't consider the idea.

And she isn't listed to do any upcoming TV or movie work elsewhere, so it probably will happen.

Dang. I was hoping she was done.

[Sxottlan]

I did like this previous episode for the focus on Hershel. Wilson did a great job.


Because this show doesn't believe in attention to detail or continuity concerns.

This. Because I'm pretty sure this whole fence problem could have been solved if they simply did what Michonne did with her two "pets" last season. Break off the jaws and arms of walkers, string them up along the fence perimeter and you'd think it'd be enough to keep away the others. Andrea even did it at one point.

Then again, I never understood why everyone left the town and moved to a dank prison. Seemed like it should have been the other way around.

[Dukefrukem]

The episode where Rick let Carol go must have been the worst written episode of the franchise thus far.

Except that I loved the scene with Daryl and the alchy. I just thought it was a really sloppy setup and execution.

[Spun Lepton]

I am always impressed with their music selection.

[megladon8]

I loved last night's episode.

[Spun Lepton]

Seriously fucking agreed, meg. That might've been the best episode to date.

[Spun Lepton]

Nobody agrees? I know Den of Geek had a mildly negative opinion of it.

[amberlita]

Nobody agrees? I know Den of Geek had a mildly negative opinion of it.

I appreciate it's attempt at a change-up, similar to getting an episode juxtaposing Rick and Carol's adventures in scavenging with Daryl and Co's adventures a couple episodes ago, but I thought it was a hella boring episode. Primarily because I don't find the Governor very interesting at all. I'm curious where they are going with this, but I was still dismayed that I had to spend an entire episode of the season focused on a character that I have never really cared about and am not particularly eager to get to know. What dimensions of this guy were revealed from this episode? That we had him pegged all wrong as a cartoonish villian last season? That he's got dead daughter issues? They're trying to erase the wrongs done to that character last season, and maybe they will accomplish the task, but it's going to be a slog getting there. And from the previews it looks like we'll be spending all of next episode with him too. *sigh* I'd rather have an episode dedicated solely to how Carol is getting on having been outcast from the group. I actually care what happens to her.

Overall I do think the season is strong. Or at least stronger than it's been in the past.

[Ezee E]

I like the changeup, but kind of found it boring. The backup characters seem like the subplot characters we see in every episode. They don't have anything new to add, and look like zombie bait.

[Qrazy]

Run to me child! Run to me! This is the time and place for us to patiently wait for your hesitating ass.

[Gizmo]

this whole season has been a big let down. In fact, not even sure I like the show, since I can't recall being engaged since about halfway through season 2. I may be watching only because I enjoy the comics now that I've begun reading them.

Until this morning, I've been about 2 episodes behind all season and haven't really cared if I caught up.

[amberlita]

OH MY GOD

What a monumental fucking waste of time these last two episodes have been. The plotting on this show is the television writing equivalent of a hamster wheel.

[Ezee E]

I'll agree on the two episodes. We realize that he almost has a change of heart, but not really at all. I don't get the point of it. Take away the last two episodes, go right to this finale, and I don't think we'd have lost a beat.

[Raiders]

Yeah... I disagree. Not sure why the last two episodes need to drive the plot forward at all. When did TV suddenly become judged by its forward plot momentum?

Not to mention, wouldn't the questions exist about how the Governor got a new following when he attacked the prison if we just skipped it? It didn't need to be two full episodes, but I liked it. I liked that the Governor is doomed in the lawless post-apocalypse setting to follow the same cycle. His name is changed, he's more broken than before, but he still can't overcome himself. They talked about it on Talking Dead, but I did think it was a nice re-genesis that he obtained a "wife and child" again and now has re-asserted his leadership over people and desire to destroy Rick, Michonne and everyone else.

I think the lack of progress for the character, and the redundancy with before, is entirely the point. My biggest complaint is that he can only stare off in the distance so many times. I did find that redundancy annoying.

[Irish]

When did TV suddenly become judged by its forward plot momentum?

Since its inception? TV has always been a heavy commercial medium, and that aspect demands narrative.

Also: It's a show about a zombie Apocolypse.

[Raiders]

Since its inception? TV has always been a heavy commercial medium, and that aspect demands narrative.

Also: It's a show about a zombie Apocolypse.


It was with 100% certainty that when I typed that, you would respond with this retort in some form or another. I practically was raising an Irish signal into the sky.

And of course it needs a flippin' story. It had a story, it just didn't progress any further to the finale than we were two episodes ago. I don't see why that matters. And please don't tell me what TV is, as though we should draw some kind of box that every thing that is created must fit in becau...


Also: It's a show about a zombie Apocolypse.

Ok, nevermind.

[amberlita]

Yeah... I disagree. Not sure why the last two episodes need to drive the plot forward at all. When did TV suddenly become judged by its forward plot momentum?

Not to mention, wouldn't the questions exist about how the Governor got a new following when he attacked the prison if we just skipped it? It didn't need to be two full episodes, but I liked it. I liked that the Governor is doomed in the lawless post-apocalypse setting to follow the same cycle. His name is changed, he's more broken than before, but he still can't overcome himself. They talked about it on Talking Dead, but I did think it was a nice re-genesis that he obtained a "wife and child" again and now has re-asserted his leadership over people and desire to destroy Rick, Michonne and everyone else.

I think the lack of progress for the character, and the redundancy with before, is entirely the point. My biggest complaint is that he can only stare off in the distance so many times. I did find that redundancy annoying.

That may have been the point but it was still a waste of time. An insulting one at that. They pulled the old bait-and-switch. Two episodes ago: We are trying to bring nuance and depth to this once one-dimensional caricature of a villian. This episode: Just kidding, he's as ridiculous as he always was with the exact same motivations except now it's a live surrogate family rather than a dead one. There is still nothing that I know about the Governor now that I didn't know last season and panning to the back of his head two episodes ago I would have expected the same bullshit we are about to get from this character but I wouldn't have had to wade through two hours of a fake out.

And it isn't only about lack of forward movement in the last couple episodes. It's about being in virtually the same narrative position that we were at this time a season ago. I don't know where the show is going to head, but the last time we pitted our group at war with the Governor, the second half of the season took a nose-dive in quality from the first half. I can't help but expect history to repeat itself. Not killing this character and opting to revisit familiar but previously unsuccessful narrative territory is a mistake.

[Irish]

And of course it needs a flippin' story. It had a story, it just didn't progress any further to the finale than we were two episodes ago. I don't see why that matters. And please don't tell me what TV is, as though we should draw some kind of box that every thing that is created must fit in becau...

TV is a box with hard lines. To think otherwise is to be painfully naive or willfully stupid. There are no subcultures on TV. No arthouse. No indie. No underground. TV is singular in its purpose. It's all mainstream.


Ok, nevermind.

It matters because if you play in a genre, you have to give genre its due. That means a constantly moving narrative. People aren't tuning into a show about a zombie Apocolypse for subtley and character development and quiet moments. They want brains. And occasionally, more paramedics.

This is, I have to admit, something that Vince Gilligan understood on a fundamental level with Breaking Bad. He knew exactly where the line was between introspection and explosion, and when and how to deliver each to the fans. The guy had a knack for timing and pacing.

Gale Anne Hurd and the team behind Walking Dead? Not so much.

[Qrazy]

TV is a box with hard lines. To think otherwise is to be painfully naive or willfully stupid. There are no subcultures on TV. No arthouse. No indie. No underground. TV is singular in its purpose. It's all mainstream.



Twin peaks? Also, what about shows with cult followings (underground)?

[Irish]

Twin peaks? Also, what about shows with cult followings (underground)?

It went 30 episodes over the course of a single calendar year. The ratings dipped after each airing, from 30 million viewers at its premiere to around 10 when it was cancelled. Which was too bad. That show was waaaaay ahead of its time (by about a decade).

But it's also a good example of a genre show -- murder mystery -- that defied too many expectations. (AMC's The Killing is another one.)

Not sure what I'd call "underground" at this point. I mean, especially on cable, we're largely talking about pre-packaged, pre-existing, corporate owned media. I'm not sure how underground something can be when the producers drop $4 mil an episode and the show is advertised everywhere.

Did you have a show in mind? I'm at a loss.

[Qrazy]

It went 30 episodes over the course of a single calendar year. The ratings dipped after each airing, from 30 million viewers at its premiere to around 10 when it was cancelled. Which was too bad. That show was waaaaay ahead of its time (by about a decade).

But it's also a good example of a genre show -- murder mystery -- that defied too many expectations. (AMC's The Killing is another one.)

Not sure what I'd call "underground" at this point. I mean, especially on cable, we're largely talking about pre-packaged, pre-existing, corporate owned media. I'm not sure how underground something can be when the producers drop $4 mil an episode and the show is advertised everywhere.

Did you have a show in mind? I'm at a loss.

I mean of course something that is underground/cult gets cancelled fairly quickly. If it's not pulling the numbers they can't keep it on air forever, but that doesn't mean bizarre television isn't green lit or ever produced.

Here's a few that found viewership after their initial runs.

Garth Marenghi's Dark Place
Firefly
Arrested Development
Party Down
Jericho
Freaks and Geeks

Some obscure shows that still don't have much of a following as far as I know...

Twitch City
Jeremiah
Aliens in the Family
Nowhere Man

[Ezee E]

I've thought this season has been excellent in the prison, even with the logic of the medical problems being a little silly. The frustration of never being able to live simple, the constant reminder that death is around the corner, and now even inside the area deemed safe. We got to see this with each and every character, and the result it's taking on them. That was fascinating to me.

Moving on to the Governor, we got a taste of that as he was on his own, but it went through the same territory. People seeing their loved ones, and still wanting to keep them alive (they have moved on from this in the prison). The Governor basically found an excuse to continue on his revenge mission more then anything. There's really no need to figure out how he gained a following. We know he's charismatic and can achieve that. Break through those gates with the tank...

To me, that would've been the saddest thing in the entire show, after they discovered they found treatment for the virus, and things are getting better, only for their walls to literally be torn down.

[Irish]

I mean of course something that is underground/cult gets cancelled fairly quickly. If it's not pulling the numbers they can't keep it on air forever, but that doesn't mean bizarre television isn't green lit or ever produced.

Good list. Others: My So Called Life, Carnivale, Deadwood.

I wasn't trying to argue that outré TV never gets produced, just that it can never survive. The commercial demands and the audience expectations are far too rigid.

Unlike books, comics, and film, TV does not have a non-commercial component. There isn't any real TV equivalent to Wool, Love and Rockets, or Repo Man. TV has never had a Richard Brautigan, Charles Bukowski, Captain Beefheart, or Marc Maron and it never will.

(And yes, before anyone says it: I know Maron has a show. Notice how different it is than his standup, and how similar it is to other sitcoms).

[Spun Lepton]

Were there worms in the trees? There was one shot that looked a bit like that.

Qrazy, I love Twitch City. I wish they'd put it on Netflix, 'cuz I'd definitely watch it again.

[Qrazy]

Good list. Others: My So Called Life, Carnivale, Deadwood.

I wasn't trying to argue that outré TV never gets produced, just that it can never survive. The commercial demands and the audience expectations are far too rigid.

Unlike books, comics, and film, TV does not have a non-commercial component. There isn't any real TV equivalent to Wool, Love and Rockets, or Repo Man. TV has never had a Richard Brautigan, Charles Bukowski, Captain Beefheart, or Marc Maron and it never will.

(And yes, before anyone says it: I know Maron has a show. Notice how different it is than his standup, and how similar it is to other sitcoms).

True.

It also probably depends on the national television though. For instance, Kieslowski's Decalogue was made for TV. As well as Heimat and a number of other arthouse projects. They're typically miniseries though.

[Irish]

It also probably depends on the national television though. For instance, Kieslowski's Decalogue was made for TV. As well as Heimat and a number of other arthouse projects. They're typically miniseries though.

Good point. I'd love a more open medium. There's great stuff produced in England like Ultraviolet (1 series, 6 episodes) and Black Mirror (2 series, 6 episodes) that just don't fit into the American model.

[Qrazy]

Solid ep.

[Ezee E]

Very.

[Irish]

This is how season 3 should have ended (the original prison defense was never believable). Although, attacking a prison (that you want to keep) with a tank in the middle of the afternoon is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone could do.

Interesting that they took out Ten Line Grandpa. Either that violates one of the show's attempted themes (where people only die for disloyalty) or they want the absence of a Moral Voice(TM) to effect future storylines. Hopefully the latter.

Decent end to the Gov, but that also makes the last two episodes even more superfluous to the core storyline.

[Qrazy]

Also, Carl is clearly torturing animals, right?

[Raiders]

This is how season 3 should have ended (the original prison defense was never believable). Although, attacking a prison (that you want to keep) with a tank in the middle of the afternoon is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone could do.

I kept waiting for someone to question this.


Decent end to the Gov, but that also makes the last two episodes even more superfluous to the core storyline.

Meh, I still think they had a good arc.

The killing of the girl early on made me realize that regardless how little I actually care about the character (in this case, almost none) or how annoying they are (in this case, plenty), being a father of a little girl makes it impossible for me to stomach any violence against children, namely female, in media. I was sickened by the scene and for no real logical reason. Even Judith's implied off-camera demise made me shudder (I question her death given they showed nothing and the children that had her are still around somewhere).

[Dead & Messed Up]

Didn't watch this season, but read the AV club review for this, and the closing paragraphs explain precisely why I've never been able to love this series:


...There are plenty of stories and even television shows with downbeat themes, and it’s to be expected that a zombie apocalypse wouldn’t be the happiest place to live. But once again, we see characters being forced to learn the same lesson they’ve been learning since the first episode: You are fucked. Everyone is fucked. Every happy thought you have will be taken away from you, and you will suffer for it. That’s a fine theme for a two-hour movie, or even a novel, but for an on-going series, it leaves us in a story where every ending is always the same. Every situation, sooner or later, will end badly.

It’s not even a “theme,” really. The writers try and tart it up as such, giving Rick a big speech that the Governor can then contradict by murdering a nice old man, but it’s all for the shock value, because that’s all the show has. Every nice moment, every happy exchange, every positive connection is an investment that will pay off in misery down the line, because that is the only currency available. And so the writers will dig more deeply to try and catch us off our guard. Dead child not dark enough? Hey, how about a baby carrier soaked in blood. Are you not entertained? Don’t worry. Next time it will be worse.

[Ezee E]

That flaw has also been called out in the comic. That the dread just moves from one spot to another. Alexandria is just a larger, nicer version of Woodbury from Season 3.

I'm not sure how one counteracts this though. Unless they discover that it's all over somehow.

[Irish]

Didn't watch this season, but read the AV club review for this, and the closing paragraphs explain precisely why I've never been able to love this series:

I think they're wrong. The Road had an oppressive "you are fucked" vibe. Walking Dead really doesn't. If anything, it's almost too easy (simply because, over a year after the Apocalypse, people are still able to form larger, stable communities).

What continually strikes me as "off" about this show is that the people are entirely one dimensional. They don't display human behavior.

For one, they're not mean enough, petty enough, or cruel enough. But I can forgive that because, hey, it's a TV show.

But what strikes me as inauthentic is that every person is unrelentingly grim. They are tight lipped and super serious all the damn time. Nobody cracks jokes or makes sarcastic comments.

There are rarely any displays of culture. Nobody draws. Nobody tags buildings or trees. People rarely sing. And I've counted twice that characters have made reference to any aspect of culture that existed before The Turn. So the world ends and people stop making Simpsons references or quoting Shakespeare? They don't jokingly imitate Clint Eastwood or William Shatner? Bullshit.

In highschool I knew a bunch of guys who were part time volunteer EMTs. This was in suburbia, but they still saw fucked up things on a regular basis. Very quickly, they developed an obscene level of gallows humor. It helped them deal with the job.

But the characters on this show, who are in are far worse situation, never make each other smile with a bawdy joke or simple, creative expression.

They're almost robotic in their reactions to any situation, and every character reacts the same way. That seems to me to be entirely false, and a much bigger oversight in the writing that being "downbeat" and adopting a "you're all fucked" tone.

[Qrazy]

Didn't watch this season, but read the AV club review for this, and the closing paragraphs explain precisely why I've never been able to love this series:

Yeah it reminds me of that article about these types of TV shows a while back. Sons of Anarchy, The Shield and a few others are the same bullshit. The Shield had redeeming values though while Walking Dead is particularly poorly written. A post-apocalyptic film ought to be about world exploration, the interesting things you encounter along the way and what you learn about yourself and others. This show is just about introducing new characters and killing them off shortly thereafter and rehashing the same discussions endlessly. Also what's with this whole 'everyone has a job to do' obnoxiousness, that's seriously irritating.

[Irish]

Also, Carl is clearly torturing animals, right?

I don't think Carl is a sociopath. He's just hardcore. :D

My guess: One of Carol's adopted girls, probably the older one with dialogue, messed around with the rats. Fed the walkers by the fence because she was soft on "Nick," the one with the name tag.

I'm also guessing that those girls killed the two sick people, and Carol covered for them. That's why she was so matter-a-fact when Officer Friendly confronted her about the deaths.

If Carol was covering, the she'll be found alive & allowed to rejoin the group.

If she did commit the murders, then she'll be killed off. Characters who exhibit any form of disloyalty on this show die in short order.

[Spun Lepton]

Also, Carl is clearly torturing animals, right?

My money's on Bob.

[Ezee E]

I almost think it'd be fine if we never find out, seeing that some of the cast isn't going to reunite with Rick/Carl in the future.

[Spun Lepton]

I am a bit irked with the way S4 has been playing out. The last episode should've been the ending of S3. It feels really artificial and padded. And they seem to have resolved the sickness issue already, which makes that whole story line seem like padding. I dunno. For a season that started out seeming promising, it's kinda taken a nosedive for me.

We'll see.

Why wouldn't Michonne have killed the Gov when she had the chance? Again, it seems like an artificial decision made to give the woman he duped the opportunity to finish him off. And, you know, if it had been about Michonne leaving the Gov to be torn apart by the zombies, I would've been okay with that, but they didn't even give us that satisfaction.

[Raiders]

She did leave him to the walkers so he could die even more horribly. The show just decided instead to give Lilly the opportunity to finish him off the way he did Meghan. I am unsure if it was intended to be cold-blooded or not, though. It seemed that way, but she did give him a more humane conclusion. Maybe she just wanted to do it herself.

[Spun Lepton]

She did leave him to the walkers so he could die even more horribly. The show just decided instead to give Lilly the opportunity to finish him off the way he did Meghan. I am unsure if it was intended to be cold-blooded or not, though. It seemed that way, but she did give him a more humane conclusion. Maybe she just wanted to do it herself.

Should've been death by walkers. Would've been the most satisfying conclusion for me, so I'm assuming that's true for everybody. :)

[Spun Lepton]

Michonne wounds him, leaves him to the walkers. Gov manages to get to his feet as a group of them approach, staggers away, looks like he might make it and BLAM! Shot in the side by Lilly. He falls and gets torn apart. EVERYBODY'S HAPPY.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, a strange way to do it, but same outcome all said and done.

[Spun Lepton]

Yeah, a strange way to do it, but same outcome all said and done.

Why strange? Of all the characters so far, the Governor was the most deserving of a torn-apart-by-zombies death. Jus' sayin'.

[Dukefrukem]

ReStarts tonight folks.

[Dukefrukem]

First time doing this:

http://www.amctv.com/shows/the-walking-dead/story-sync

[Qrazy]

Really good episode.

[Dukefrukem]

I liked the Michonne parts. Her needing to be alone and avoiding the trails, a little bit of her backstory... all good stuff. But there's a lot of obvious rehashing with the Grimes family going on- the scene where the zombies pile up on Carl; the same scene happened to Rick in season 2. But I get it, the point was Carl needs his father and is not ready to be on his own, I just felt it was a really cheap and tedious way to bring out the point.

Probably won't watch the rest of this season live.

[Raiders]

I liked the Michonne parts. Her needing to be alone and avoiding the trails, a little bit of her backstory... all good stuff. But there's a lot of obvious rehashing with the Grimes family going on- the scene where the zombies pile up on Carl; the same scene happened to Rick in season 2. But I get it, the point was Carl needs his father and is not ready to be on his own, I just felt it was a really cheap and tedious way to bring out the point.

I don't really think that was the point, at least not in the way I assume you mean. His statements of "I win" and "he got my shoe but didn't get me" show a recklessness and overconfidence that I don't think is going away. I found the shot of him sitting on the roof and eating pudding to be really well done; troublesome in his growing belief on how tough he is and how he can conquer this post-apocalypse by himself but also kinda poignant in how he is still young enough to enjoy the little things like eating some pudding and dreaming of a return to suburban life. That he wasn't willing to kill his "dead" father shows he wasn't as committed to his hatred of him as he thought and that maybe he does want/need him around, but I suspect he will continue down the path of resistance and belief in his own toughness.

I am surprised how many people keep expecting that the show will set up Rick's death at some future point and Carl will take over... I cannot imagine this turning out any way other than Carl biting it. There are two constants: 1) Rick will survive and be unhappy, and 2) everyone else will die at some point.

[Dukefrukem]

That's true Raiders but I really hope it doesn't go in that direction (either Carl or Rick dying). I'm so fucking tired of Rick pulling the woe-is-me schtick. In the comic, he pulled of it really quickly when the next threat presented himself . I want to see Rick starting to give orders again, confidently. Become the badass you are supposed to be.. that we are waiting for you to be. He seems so helpless 99% of the time.

Rick had essentially given up right before they found the prison and he's been a whiny bitch ever since. Yeh I get it, he lost is wife, and feels like the decisions cost other lives... but let's move on from this plot point shall we?? It's been beaten to death.

There's a couple of things I want to happen before this season ends.

1. Happy they didn't have the Governor kill Tyreese- you have't even begun to use Tyreese so good move, now fucking make him an important character!
2. Intro-fuckin-duce Abraham.
3. And let's move on to the Alexandrians.

[Ezee E]

Really curious what they can do with Rick at this point. He is expendable in my eyes, and let the show move on to Michonne/Carl as the main characters, as much as Carl annoys me.

It was a good episode because it focused on those two. Carl's over confidence seems a little over-the-top, and I just don't really like the actor.

Great use of a dream sequence for Michonne.

[Dukefrukem]

1. Happy they didn't have the Governor kill Tyreese- you have't even begun to use Tyreese so good move, now fucking make him an important character!
2. Intro-fuckin-duce Abraham.
3. And let's move on to the Alexandrians.

Well now...

[Dukefrukem]

I never thought a Daryl episode could be so boring.

[megladon8]

That hurt bad. Jen was full-on sobbing.

[Qrazy]

Maybe by The Ink Spots seems to be the poster song for all things post-apocalyptic. It's great though.

[megladon8]

Am I the only one left watching this show?

Seriously, that last episode was harrowing.

[Dukefrukem]

Meh

[Russ]

I thought it was the best episode in the entire series run thus far.

[amberlita]

I thought it was brilliant. The show finally had some balls to do something truly dramatic that made sense in the context of how the story was progressing. There was no way to resolve that situation other than the way they did. I particularly loved that there was no argument. There was hardly even a discussion. Tyreese and Carol noted the options but always knew what needed to be done. No self-righteous posturing about how "wrong" it was (which I would have expected if any one of a handful of other main characters were with Carol instead of Tyreese).

And despite not really giving a shit about either one of those kids, I felt remorse because of Carol and the actress's performance. She's the best character on the show, hands down.

Really fantastic.

[Qrazy]

Yeah, these last few episodes have been strong.

[Ezee E]

That last episode is almost something I'd expect from Bergman if he had done a zombie movie. Damn.

[Acapelli]

this show has been pretty bad since it's gotten back from the break

[Thirdmango]

Usually I'm watching a lot of shows but this is one that this season I just stopped and haven't had any desire to go back. Maybe when the season is done I'll marathon it but I'm thinking I may be done with this show.

[Dukefrukem]

Now we're getting somewhere... but there's no climax for the finale.... I feel like Sunday's episode should have been the peak. Everything feels resolved.

[Sxottlan]

I dunno. Thought the whole second half of the season was a real drag. Found myself looking forward more to Cosmos and True Detective on Sunday nights while this was also on. "The Grove" was certainly the high point of this block, but it's kind of hard to feel the horror that the episode so very much wanted me to feel when I was rooting for that character to die all season long.

The only real surprise with the finale is that it ends in a cliffhanger. Thought the direction was kind of poor. For example: Apparently the people of Terminus are cannibals, but the camera pans past the bones so quickly it's kind of hard to tell. I assumed it was human remains given its conspicuous placement, but I had to pause the playback to notice a human ribcage. Or the death of a random stranger for no apparent reason. The guy is so frantic he didn't notice that if he just walked a few feet in one direction he wouldn't have been surrounded. So fucking lazy.

The teasing of more brutality kind of fell flat. The theme of identity came up in this episode. Who exactly these people are. It seems like it keeps shifting on this show. When the group acts in a ruthlessly efficient and logical manner, I enjoy the show. When they start entertaining notions of going back to the way things used to be, it's a relapse that I sit and wait to end. It feels like the final scene strives for balance with a group of people that love each other very much, they'll trust those who help and all others will feel their wrath if they get in their way. Hopefully this will stick, but I doubt it.

[Dukefrukem]

Kind of poor? It was wicked fuckin poor.

There was nothing subtle about the cliffhanger. Every climax was resolved before leading up to the and it's obvious these people are cannibals.

I was really hoping Terminus was going to be Alexandria.

[Sxottlan]

Kind of poor? It was wicked fuckin poor.

Ha! I keep using qualifiers like "seem" and "kind of" in my writing on here. It pisses me off. :D

[EvilShoe]

All caught up. That sucked.

[Morris Schæffer]

All caught up too. Fatigue setting in for me after the amazing three last seasons. Possibly too many new characters I have nary a connection with, the idea to focus a lot of episodes on a select few characters somewhat dissapointing because not all the characters are all that interesting to begin with. Uneventful season finale although I never would have guessed the folks at Terminus were cannibals. The gore is starting to wear me out. It used to be disgusting, memorable, but I feel like I've seen enough zombies getting stabbed in the head to last me a lifetime. That said, I'm not out yet. The production values, overal sense of desolation still strong enough for me to stick with it and by now I might as well ride it out, however long it's gonna last.

[Ezee E]

All caught up too. Fatigue setting in for me after the amazing three last seasons. Possibly too many new characters I have nary a connection with, the idea to focus a lot of episodes on a select few characters somewhat dissapointing because not all the characters are all that interesting to begin with. Uneventful season finale although I never would have guessed the folks at Terminus were cannibals. The gore is starting to wear me out. It used to be disgusting, memorable, but I feel like I've seen enough zombies getting stabbed in the head to last me a lifetime. That said, I'm not out yet. The production values, overal sense of desolation still strong enough for me to stick with it and by now I might as well ride it out, however long it's gonna last.

Pretty much my feeling. Although I didn't even pay attention to the finale.

Like the comic, it's really just moving from one location to another, waiting it out for whoever dies next.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Friend implored me to give this series another shot, even after I tried quitting during Season 2 and again after Season 3. Zombie show indeed.

Anyway, just saw the one episode end with the Governor, and noooooo. As in, boring.

Here's what sucks so far. The idea of a viral disease makes a lot of sense, as waves of secondary disease sweep populations historically. But ones that have pretty much 100% fatality rates? And there's never a clear sense of time or urgency. It feels like the drug search party is on a Sunday drive.

I get what Qrazy is saying about the patented Rick Lean.

Gilliard deserves a better backstory.

How dare they put Carol on a bus. She's the most interesting, best acted character in the bunch.

I do think the show has leveled up, insofar as it's shed enough crappy characters and actors to reach some consistently effective, if mild, melodramatics.

The production design has always been a high point of this show, along with the gore effects, even if the CG blood meshes poorly with the in-camera stuff.

For what it's worth, I'm not dreading new episodes anymore. There's a mild curiosity. Progress, I guess.