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DavidSeven
01-28-2013, 10:30 PM
Really enjoying this season thus far (through episode 3). More than anything, it's so far been consistently hilarious and without any head scratching plot developments. Hope they keep it up.

ledfloyd
01-29-2013, 01:06 AM
I don't think the Marnie and Booth stuff worked terribly well this week, otherwise I'm in agreement.

amberlita
01-29-2013, 01:07 AM
I haven't been too enamored with the first three episodes, abundance of Andrew Rannells not withstanding. However, I went ahead and watched the 4th episode on HBO Go and it was pretty damn fantastic.

number8
01-29-2013, 01:55 AM
Aye, the upcoming 4th episode may be the best of the show, definitely best of the season.

number8
01-29-2013, 02:10 AM
Should probably move S2 discussion the subforum.

Mara
01-29-2013, 12:27 PM
Should probably move S2 discussion the subforum.

Yeah, this is a new procedure so for right now I have moved over the discussion for just this episode. If you want to move over other specific posts, it's really easy to do.

And I know this is new stuff, so if it annoys or frustrates anyone, please just let us know.

Benny Profane
01-29-2013, 12:57 PM
I don't like this show but I watch it with my wife. Don't really find it interesting or funny. And for a show about girls the best characters so far have been guys. At least Jessa and Shoshanna have been marginalized so far in season 2 as they were nothing characters. Shoshanna in particular who is overly exaggerated and one-note. It could do more with the post BA 20-somethings theme but the writing is pretty bad imo.

ledfloyd
01-29-2013, 01:16 PM
I'm really enjoying Shoshanna this season; I think she's being used a lot more effectively. I think Hannah IS a great character, but I'm not entirely sure where they're going with Marnie this year. I do seem to enjoy the show's milieu and plotting more than the characters themselves.

Also, guys, if you haven't listened to Lena Dunham on Jeff Garlin's podcast (http://www.earwolf.com/episode/lena-dunham/) I can't recommend it enough.

Qrazy
01-30-2013, 05:30 PM
Episode 4 was alright but I find Dunham too frequently decides to amp up the drama beyond the point of believability rather than aim for emotional nuance.

For instance, Jessa's marriage ending so abruptly. I mean would they really go from lovey dovey to 'it's over' in an evening? Did not ring true to me. Same thing with Charlie kissing Marnie on the roof. I didn't buy it. It was more than enough for him to go up there and for his girlfriend to leave the party from that alone.

number8
01-30-2013, 06:27 PM
I buy it because of who the characters are presented as. If this was a show with more mature people who benefit from some nuance, I would agree with you, but because it's these characters, I can easily buy it.

Jessa and Thomas-John marriage ended as abruptly as it began. That's very believable.

Charlie always seemed like an indecisive dick, so that makes sense too.

Of course, you can still argue that by choosing these characters to focus on, Dunham is taking the easy road.

ledfloyd
01-31-2013, 12:58 AM
Wow, episode four was just... yeah. I agree with 8's assessment.

Qrazy
01-31-2013, 03:17 AM
I buy it because of who the characters are presented as. If this was a show with more mature people who benefit from some nuance, I would agree with you, but because it's these characters, I can easily buy it.

Jessa and Thomas-John marriage ended as abruptly as it began. That's very believable.

Charlie always seemed like an indecisive dick, so that makes sense too.

Of course, you can still argue that by choosing these characters to focus on, Dunham is taking the easy road.

No matter who the characters are on a purely dramatic level I feel that she's making choices to ratchet up the drama a notch above where it needs to be. I'm not saying it's soap opera-esque but it just starts pushing into melodramatic territory.

amberlita
01-31-2013, 04:25 AM
Okay fair enough. I guess we read them like we see them. It all certainly wasn't subtle.

I guess I just anticipated that this is where those storylines were going to go and so they don't strike me as melodramatic developments. Jessa's marriage was basically a lark. I'm completely unsurprised that the first hiccup out of the honeymoon phase didn't dissolve that marriage so much as reveal it for the sham that it always was. If they hadn't been married they simply would have "broken up" and it wouldn't have seemed so melodramatic. But they are married, so it seems rash, however there's nothing in either of their histories that has lead me to believe that a piece of paper means much of anything to either of them.

The smashing of humanitarian awards, though? Bit much.

I appreciated the contrast of various relationships. Jessa and Thomas-John compared to the proper kindling of love between Shoshanna and...that guy, can't remember his name. Admittedly their screen time has been too brief. Charlie and Marnie...well I can't bring myself to overanalyze them. I just don't care about either of them enough to do so.

Lena Dunham continues to paint a very real but unlikable character in Hannah. I dislike her more with each passing episode, though it doesn't keep me from enjoying her. The playing off of sides over dinner when the other wasn't looking strikes me as incredibly early-twenties-deceitfully-self-serving-girl. I wanted to punch her and then gab about doing drugs over dessert.

number8
01-31-2013, 02:31 PM
The smashing of humanitarian awards, though? Bit much.

Chris O'Dowd's delivery of that was fantastic.

"I won that for being a fucking humanitarian!'

slqrick
02-05-2013, 01:12 PM
I thought this past episode showed us the full potential of the show, although I do agree with Qrazy about the Jessa stuff getting a bit over the top. I thought the Charlie/Marnie interactions were real enough, especially since both don't know what they want. This was the first episode were I was really laughing my ass off at some of the things Hannah was saying as she was desperately trying to take hold of the her dinner party and act like an "adult." I think the Ray/Shoshanna stuff is the only stuff I somewhat care about on an emotional level.

DavidSeven
02-06-2013, 06:12 AM
Definitely my favorite episode of the season. Hit on all cylinders. Right up there with "All Adventurous Women Do" for best of the series. I'll agree that a lot of Charlie's actions still evade complete believability to me. The Jessa/Thomas-John fight, however, I felt had great detail and honesty in how it escalated. I thought it was one of the best cringe-inducing fights I've seen on screen.

Milky Joe
02-08-2013, 01:50 AM
"I am a UNICORN. I am a MIRACLE. I am a fucking needle in a hay-stack! And you're just some dumb hipster who's munchin' my hay."

Thomas-John is the best of the best.

Qrazy
02-08-2013, 02:47 AM
"I am a UNICORN. I am a MIRACLE. I am a fucking needle in a hay-stack! And you're just some dumb hipster who's munchin' my hay."

Thomas-John is the best of the best.

I've been hearing this use of unicorn a lot lately. They also use the term in the same context in the House of Cards remake and I could swear I heard it somewhere else as well.

edit: New Parks and Rec ep just used it as well. This must be some TV inside joke.

ThePlashyBubbler
02-11-2013, 04:03 AM
This week's episode was pretty great, I thought.

Were we supposed to empathize with Hannah's big monologue after her steam shower? It seemed like it at first, but as she started getting incredulous she kinda lost me.

Lazlo
02-11-2013, 04:38 AM
Really loved this episode. Great snapshot of a moment in Hannah's life. And the music at the very end was heartbreaking and beautiful.

Qrazy
02-11-2013, 08:43 AM
Meh. I can't stand her. Episode seemed like self-aware wish fulfillment to me, basically a female rendition of a Woody Allen scenario.

Sxottlan
02-11-2013, 09:17 AM
"It's a Shame About Ray" is probably the funniest episode the show has done. Tonight's episode was an interesting departure, but I'm sort of in agreement with Qrazy.

Lucky
02-11-2013, 07:22 PM
Meh. I can't stand her. Episode seemed like self-aware wish fulfillment to me, basically a female rendition of a Woody Allen scenario.

Right down to the jazzy blues piano at the end. I'm giving Dunham the benefit of the doubt that we're supposed to find Hannah a bit ridiculous. She spent the last part of her tirade mentioning how she's upset that she did all of the talking but then slips twice in conversation to reveal she hasn't listened to anything he has said. She's completely unaware of the level of her narcissism.

I did like the episode. Patrick Wilson fit very well here.

elixir
02-11-2013, 09:01 PM
We are definitely supposed to find Hannah somewhat ridiculous. The comment regarding Fiona Apple? Come on.

It is wish-fulfillment to a degree, yeah, but I didn't mind within the context of the episode.

ledfloyd
02-12-2013, 12:20 AM
She spent the last part of her tirade mentioning how she's upset that she did all of the talking but then slips twice in conversation to reveal she hasn't listened to anything he has said. She's completely unaware of the level of her narcissism.
Yeah, she thinks he's happy because he has things, but it's incredibly clear that he isn't anywhere near happy.

DavidSeven
02-12-2013, 12:44 AM
I think I was intrigued by this episode more than I actually enjoyed it. Patrick Wilson was a perfect and unexpected choice, though.

Thirdmango
02-12-2013, 01:57 AM
I think I was intrigued by this episode more than I actually enjoyed it. Patrick Wilson was a perfect and unexpected choice, though.

This. I found myself equal parts liking it and hating it.

Also I know Dunham has made mention of the usage of her own nudity but it has been a part of every episode so far.

slqrick
02-12-2013, 02:07 PM
Also I know Dunham has made mention of the usage of her own nudity but it has been a part of every episode so far.

I feel like its really forced at times, too. Like, "hey guys I know this is HBO and you want to see supermodel boobs, but I'm gonna make sure all you see is mine, because I'm not conventionally attractive so I gotta make sure everyone realizes how empowering this is." I get it, I just don't need it to be so obvious. I will say that the internet responses to these scenes does shed some light on the double standards of female nudity, as I've seen a disturbing amount of "ain't no one wanna see Lena Dunham's fatass on screen yo" comments.

Essentially, this is what makes me still go back and forth on this show. I really loved how this episode was shot and directed, and the bottled aspect of it. It felt a lot like an episode of Louie. However, I have to spend the entire episode with Hannah who continues to be awful. It was just hard at all to connect in any way with her or Dunham's acting during her big emotional scene, although I did enjoy Patrick Wilson's casting. The one thing I did buy though was that this dude would be lonely enough to have this fling, especially since he's much older, and living in a neighborhood that he feels alienated by. I was moved by the ending though, and I thought the last shot was simple but perfect.

Basically, I keep watching the show even though there is so much of it I don't like because of episodes like last week at Hannah's party, and because I do like when the show branches out to show what characters like Ray and Shoshana are up to. It just becomes problematic to me when the show goes back to being all around Hannah.

Lucky
02-12-2013, 04:43 PM
Did anyone else notice that it sounded like Dunham was yawning throughout the entirety of her crying sequence?

ledfloyd
02-12-2013, 04:52 PM
I feel like its really forced at times, too. Like, "hey guys I know this is HBO and you want to see supermodel boobs, but I'm gonna make sure all you see is mine, because I'm not conventionally attractive so I gotta make sure everyone realizes how empowering this is." I get it, I just don't need it to be so obvious. I will say that the internet responses to these scenes does shed some light on the double standards of female nudity, as I've seen a disturbing amount of "ain't no one wanna see Lena Dunham's fatass on screen yo" comments.

I've never really gotten this perceived subtext. Maybe it's because I find her relatively attractive, I mean she looks like an average girl.

It did feel a lot like an episode of Louie. I would like to see the inverse episode of Louie where an attractive 20-something shows up at his house.

Qrazy
02-13-2013, 01:27 AM
I've never really gotten this perceived subtext. Maybe it's because I find her relatively attractive, I mean she looks like an average girl.

It did feel a lot like an episode of Louie. I would like to see the inverse episode of Louie where an attractive 20-something shows up at his house.

Oh god, if either show lasted long enough and the networks allowed it I could definitely see them doing cross over eps.

Thirdmango
02-13-2013, 06:52 AM
I've never really gotten this perceived subtext.

Well I remember an interview with her about season 1 where she said the nudity was empowering because it wasn't all supermodel types like a lot of other shows which just want to have some random girls with nudity. But the nice thing about season 1 was that when it was used they justified it and they didn't over do it. This season I don't think there's a single episode we haven't seen Dunham specifically naked in.

Benny Profane
02-13-2013, 01:58 PM
I feel like its really forced at times, too. Like, "hey guys I know this is HBO and you want to see supermodel boobs, but I'm gonna make sure all you see is mine, because I'm not conventionally attractive so I gotta make sure everyone realizes how empowering this is." I get it, I just don't need it to be so obvious. I will say that the internet responses to these scenes does shed some light on the double standards of female nudity, as I've seen a disturbing amount of "ain't no one wanna see Lena Dunham's fatass on screen yo" comments.



She is physically repulsive and I'd rather not see her naked body. I realize by saying this that I'm probably proving some point she's trying to make, but so what.

She's not the ugliest girl in world but she's probably the ugliest girl I've seen naked more than once. So congrats to her?

That aside, I kinda liked this episode.

ledfloyd
02-13-2013, 05:47 PM
http://www.vulture.com/2013/02/attractiveness-least-interesting-thing-about-this-weeks-girls-patrick-wilson.html

Matt Zoller Seitz pretty clearly evokes the feelings I had while watching this episode.

Henry Gale
02-14-2013, 11:05 PM
The night before last I caught up on the last three episodes back-to-back, only to see how much I'd miss quality-wise and in terms of confusing, all-internet-consuming controversy. "One Man's Trash" might be my favourite episode of this show to date, and the two before it were among the funniest half hours I've seen in a long time.

The issues people are taking with the latest episode are just preposterous to me. This might be the strongest show airing at the moment, and while terrible shows glide by on horrible caricatures and stereotypes passing as characters to massive audiences week after week, Girls gets pulled through the ringer for daring to have worldview that dares to allow for Patrick Wilson to have a something of a human, sexual connection with Lena Dunham? Pay no attention to how lonely each of their characters clearly are in their own ways or how beautifully crafted the episode is in making it completely understandable as to where each of them are in their lives on that particular day, looking to escape from their norms, even if their personalities and day-to-day lives eventually show up to remind them how they might not gel with as much ease beyond that weekend. Forget all that, because apparently Wilson is way more attractive than Dunham and therefore he would never be the sort of person that would give her the time of day! Nice try, Lena! Dumb show!

If it was Allison Williams character walking up to, say, John C. Reilly's brownstone, people would suddenly find a whole different angle to tear this episode apart. But even in that situation of looks, I fear most guys' juvenile reaction would be "Who could blame him! Good on you dude!"

I haven't actually looked at how many reviews of this episode, glowing or scathing, were actually written by women, but I do think it's a bigger problem that people are just so locked into conventions of male-designed television that an episode like this, as much as the relationship it depicts isn't anything shocking in relative, is still somehow a brick to the face in terms of what the medium usually allows for. Luckily, some seem to be appreciating the wake-up call.

ledfloyd
02-15-2013, 02:13 AM
Forget all that, because apparently Wilson is way more attractive than Dunham and therefore he would never be the sort of person that would give her the time of day! Nice try, Lena! Dumb show!
Yeah, it's almost as if people never sleep with people that are more or less attractive than them in real life.

btw, Emily Nussbaum wrote a fantastic review of the episode for The New Yorker, it's worth seeking out.

DavidSeven
02-15-2013, 09:01 PM
I'm not really plugged into the internet milieu surrounding the show, so I don't know this, but were the people complaining about the Dunham/Wilson hook-up also complaining about Alison Williams making out with the SNL guy in the season 1 finale? I don't remember too many complaints about that, though I personally thought it stretched believability. Dunham/Wilson, I didn't have a problem with.

Henry Gale
02-16-2013, 05:28 PM
I dunno. Ladies love Jorma.

Or maybe they just generally love Lonely Island but have decided to target their affection most towards him out of the three. Either way I've heard girls vocalize it multiple times.

DavidSeven
02-16-2013, 08:29 PM
I dunno. Ladies love Jorma.

Or maybe they just generally love Lonely Island but have decided to target their affection most towards him out of the three. Either way I've heard girls vocalize it multiple times.

I was actually talking about the other SNLer she made out with (Moynihan).

I get the appeal of Jorma's character in terms of how he's written, and he's not a bad looking guy.

slqrick
02-18-2013, 04:54 AM
This was just a flat out great ep. Again, I think this show works so much better when it's giving everyone in the ensemble some scenes. A lot of hilarious dialogue, and the Ray/Adam stuff reaffirmed that the male characters are written really well on this show. "You're 'out'?"

Henry Gale
02-18-2013, 06:13 AM
I was actually talking about the other SNLer she made out with (Moynihan).

Oh right, I'd almost forgot about that. Then yes, that's a better comparison. Maybe if they'd devoted an entire episode to that people would've gotten more up in arms about it, but again I doubt it since it's still a double standard that's consistently perpetuated in American culture at the very least by whichever gorgeous actress is cast as Schlubby Actor X's girlfriend/wife in any given sitcom or theatrical comedy.

Instead, we still have people talking about Bar Rafaeli and "nerdy extra from every movie ever" making out two weeks after the Superbowl because who's he to suddenly do that?! He wasn't even Paul Blart or anything!

Boner M
02-19-2013, 06:00 AM
Last episode was directed by Claudia Weill, who made the overlooked 1978 film Girlfriends, which all fans of the show should watch immediately.

number8
02-25-2013, 03:24 PM
I got behind and just watched ep 5 and 6, but I did hear about the controversy surrounding "One Man's Trash." After finally watching the ep, it was definitely a whole load of nothing. I agree that a lot of the reactions seem to miss the disconnect that happened between Hannah and Patrick Wilson.


Meh. I can't stand her. Episode seemed like self-aware wish fulfillment to me, basically a female rendition of a Woody Allen scenario.


It did feel a lot like an episode of Louie. I would like to see the inverse episode of Louie where an attractive 20-something shows up at his house.

I did have this thought, that we've already seen this same scenario plenty of times before, but always with the age and/or gender reversed. Male comedians have been writing themselves into these kinds of situations for decades. I'm not sure I'm willing to credit Dunham enough to think it's intentional, but this ep is an interesting experiment in exposing how the public rarely question this trope, and the specific backlash that it received is more than enough proof that there is a problem with it both in terms of its creative use and the audience perception of what's acceptable.


I feel like its really forced at times, too. Like, "hey guys I know this is HBO and you want to see supermodel boobs, but I'm gonna make sure all you see is mine, because I'm not conventionally attractive so I gotta make sure everyone realizes how empowering this is." I get it, I just don't need it to be so obvious. I will say that the internet responses to these scenes does shed some light on the double standards of female nudity, as I've seen a disturbing amount of "ain't no one wanna see Lena Dunham's fatass on screen yo" comments.

I think in this episode, it was much less about that and really just a lot more about a refreshing sense realism, which I appreciated. A lot of people hang around the house naked or in their underwear, after all. If it's warm and I'm doing nothing all day but have sex and play ping pong, I wouldn't bother with clothes either, and most girls I know wouldn't, especially when they're with people who've seen them naked already. This is actually interestingly contrasted in the next ep where Marnie does the annoyingly TV thing of covering her naked body with a blanket to go to the bathroom despite the fact that no one else was there other than the guy she just had sex with.


She is physically repulsive and I'd rather not see her naked body. I realize by saying this that I'm probably proving some point she's trying to make, but so what.

She's not the ugliest girl in world but she's probably the ugliest girl I've seen naked more than once. So congrats to her?

As for this, I think the more important point being made isn't that "conventionally hot women get to be naked on TV, so why can't her?" Obviously most people prefer watching beautiful people, that's why our movie stars and pop idols are all attractive people.

I'm willing to bet, though, especially with comedians, that you've seen physically unfit male actors in similar states of nudity shown by Dunham, be it Ken Jeong or Seth Rogen or Philip Seymour Hoffman or Tony Shalhoub or whoever (maybe not as frequently, but that's because there are more of them doing it, whereas I can't think of any contemporaries to Dunham at the moment), and while you and others who think like you may be similarly repulsed by seeing those guys naked, there's never really been a "who do they think they are"/"what narcissists"/"stop shoving an agenda down our throats" reaction to them that we're seeing being thrown at Dunham.

number8
02-25-2013, 03:56 PM
btw, Emily Nussbaum wrote a fantastic review of the episode for The New Yorker, it's worth seeking out.

Just read it. This is terrific.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/02/that-sex-scene-on-last-nights-girls.html#ixzz2KiGZYwTM

Raiders
02-25-2013, 04:59 PM
This is actually interestingly contrasted in the next ep where Marnie does the annoyingly TV thing of covering her naked body with a blanket to go to the bathroom despite the fact that no one else was there other than the guy she just had sex with.

Among the people I know, and the small few I have actually seen naked, it is more common in my case to find casual nudity awkward and to cover up. Both my wife and I are very private about our bodies unless in the act of sex. It's a strange phenomenon for sure, but I don't think this is strictly a weird TV-specific thing.

Qrazy
02-25-2013, 05:44 PM
I wasn't that sold on this most recent ep. I would like to see just one episode where no one gets naked, no one has sex and no one excretes anything. At a certain point it's no longer an 'honest' portrayal, it's just a titillating crutch.

number8
02-26-2013, 02:24 AM
By the way, I very much sympathize with Ray regarding Staten Island.

number8
02-26-2013, 02:44 PM
I wasn't that sold on this most recent ep. I would like to see just one episode where no one gets naked, no one has sex and no one excretes anything. At a certain point it's no longer an 'honest' portrayal, it's just a titillating crutch.

I kinda liked the callback to the UTI.

number8
02-26-2013, 06:21 PM
http://badassdigest.com/2013/02/20/film-crit-hulk-smash-why-girls-is-remarkable/

Seriously good read.

Qrazy
02-26-2013, 09:35 PM
I kinda liked the callback to the UTI.

Still, does the episode need to begin and end with public urination?

Lucky
02-26-2013, 10:42 PM
Still, does the episode need to begin and end with public urination?

Which probably recurred due to having sex in a graveyard. I mean, having "cum on my thigh crease" in a graveyard...

amberlita
02-27-2013, 04:10 AM
http://badassdigest.com/2013/02/20/film-crit-hulk-smash-why-girls-is-remarkable/

Seriously good read.

He should rethink his all-caps policy. Yes, that's the primary thing I got out of that article.

number8
02-27-2013, 02:34 PM
He should rethink his all-caps policy. Yes, that's the primary thing I got out of that article.

That's nothing. At least the readers of BAD know him and are used to it, but last year he wrote a 14 pages long Looper set visit for Entertainment Weekly and their readers went insane:

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/09/26/looper-rian-johnson-film-crit-hulk/

Qrazy
02-27-2013, 02:51 PM
Which probably recurred due to having sex in a graveyard. I mean, having "cum on my thigh crease" in a graveyard...

It probably recurred because she hadn't gotten rid of the UTI yet. Neither of which is here nor there though because my point is she wrote the script in this fictional world so set it up to begin and end with public urination which to me is stupid and to her is funny.

Lucky
02-27-2013, 04:13 PM
It probably recurred because she hadn't gotten rid of the UTI yet. Neither of which is here nor there though because my point is she wrote the script in this fictional world so set it up to begin and end with public urination which to me is stupid and to her is funny.

I was agreeing with you. You thought the bookended nudity was enough as it is, and I was saying it was provoked by yet another scene of nudity.

number8
02-27-2013, 04:33 PM
I would argue that a very large part of the show is about sexuality, so I am very much not keen on the show cutting back on its depiction of sex. I think Jessa is the only one of the four girls whose main story is not focused on figuring out her sexuality.

Lucky
02-28-2013, 12:45 AM
This girl is pretty good.

v71HKkH55ec

romantisaurusrex
02-28-2013, 09:29 PM
Possibly my favorite moment of the series so far, in "Boys" Shoshanna's "like....does she think you're a Marmie or an Amy?"

number8
03-04-2013, 07:41 PM
If People Talked About Seinfeld Like They Talk About Girls (http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6874239/if-people-talked-about-seinfeld-like-they-talk-about-girls)

ledfloyd
03-04-2013, 10:25 PM
What are people's thoughts on the OCD thing? I thought Vanderwerff's write-up did a good job of delving into how it both works and doesn't work. I'm interested to see where it goes, but it was certainly jarring when it cropped up.

DavidSeven
03-04-2013, 11:12 PM
What are people's thoughts on the OCD thing?

I'm willing to roll with it for now, but it felt totally contrived and distracting to me. For better or worse, this show is centered around a sense of naturalism. Something like this felt like the transparent product of a writer's room discussion. And now you're asking Dunham to make it convincing through performance. This would be hard enough for an experienced and versatile actress. Doubt Dunham can pull it off.

Easily the worst part of the episode. I enjoyed the other story threads.

Thirdmango
03-08-2013, 04:31 AM
I didn't really care for the other threads, I thought I might, I'm starting to be okay with Adam but I still have a hard time with him.

amberlita
03-08-2013, 04:38 AM
I'm willing to roll with it for now, but it felt totally contrived and distracting to me. For better or worse, this show is centered around a sense of naturalism. Something like this felt like the transparent product of a writer's room discussion. And now you're asking Dunham to make it convincing through performance. This would be hard enough for an experienced and versatile actress. Doubt Dunham can pull it off.

Easily the worst part of the episode. I enjoyed the other story threads.

I loved the quiet shot of her sitting at the table with her parents at dinner listening to that lady sing. And the quiet torture she was going through at the therapist's office. While I agree that Dunham isn't a terrific actress and her performance registered the story development as manufactured for the most part, I think she pulled off those two scenes beautifully.

And wow, Allison Williams has a voice.

Qrazy
03-11-2013, 03:00 AM
I was agreeing with you. You thought the bookended nudity was enough as it is, and I was saying it was provoked by yet another scene of nudity.

Ah sorry, my misunderstanding.

ledfloyd
03-11-2013, 04:30 PM
What a great episode.

number8
03-12-2013, 01:49 AM
What a great episode.

Yep, really impressive stuff there. This is what I meant when I said earlier that the show is primarily about sex. That cut from Adam's disappointment to Hannah in the bathroom pretty much said it all.

Ivan Drago
03-12-2013, 05:11 AM
I'll never clean my ears with a Q-tip again.

Qrazy
03-12-2013, 02:08 PM
Yep, really impressive stuff there. This is what I meant when I said earlier that the show is primarily about sex. That cut from Adam's disappointment to Hannah in the bathroom pretty much said it all.

It's primarily about four girls in a city and their lives and the guys in and around their lives. Dunham just happened to simplify that into a narrative mostly about sex because it's easy. You have titillation built into every episode that way as well as physical comedy, grotesque humor and all the messy drama that goes along with sexuality. The weakness of her grasp on the complexity of human psychology comes to the fore when she focuses on that which does not involve sex (see Jessa and her dad's dramatically strained encounter or Hannah's two-dimensional father figure). Also, on an unrelated note Dunham shoots every party scene the exact same superficial way.

All criticisms aside I thought the last two episodes have been quite strong in relation to the show in general.

number8
03-12-2013, 02:49 PM
I'll never clean my ears with a Q-tip again.

You're not supposed to. Any ear doctor will tell you that. Q-tips are really bad for your ear canals.

I believe they even say that on the boxes.

number8
03-12-2013, 02:51 PM
It's primarily about four girls in a city and their lives and the guys in and around their lives. Dunham just happened to simplify that into a narrative mostly about sex because it's easy.

No, I think that's backwards. I see it as a show about the complexities of sex that simplifies it into the familiar "four girls in a city and the guys" narrative because that's easier to understand.

Qrazy
03-12-2013, 02:57 PM
No, I think that's backwards. I see it as a show about the complexities of sex that simplifies it into the familiar "four girls in a city and the guys" narrative because that's easier to understand.

You see sex as more complex than the entire spectrum of a human's psyche and the sociopolitical dynamic between four individuals? I agree with you though that the milieu is irrelevant except in so far as it impacts and shapes their lives.

To be clear I am not talking about the basic plot of the show as you have phrased it, I am talking about the potential to explore four fully realized characters and all their emotional, intellectual and spiritual intricacies.

Ehh, personally I'm just sick of the pervasiveness of graphic sex in art. Freud is too widely embraced by artists for me and I don't find that ceaselessly portraying it communicates all that much of interest after a certain point. But that's just me, to each their own.

slqrick
03-12-2013, 03:10 PM
Best episode of the season. The scene with Adam at the end was brutal...I like how they've managed to give his character some sort of humanity so when he does shit like it that the reaction is not all just revulsion. I kind of wish that the girl wasn't just an anti-Hannah, because it made things too easy when he saw Hannah outside of the party and it was supposed to be one of those, "these two crazy kids are meant for each other" type of moments.

Strangely enough I found Marnie's song to be the most disturbingly cringeworthy moment of the week. Loved Ray's reaction.

Again, I don't think it's a coincidence that the best episodes of the show find a way to manage all the characters instead of just focusing on Hannah. I hope its a trend that continues. As far as I'm concerned, the less Hannah, the better.

number8
03-12-2013, 04:13 PM
You see sex as more complex than the entire spectrum of a human's psyche and the sociopolitical dynamic between four individuals? I agree with you though that the milieu is irrelevant except in so far as it impacts and shapes their lives.

To be clear I am not talking about the basic plot of the show as you have phrased it, I am talking about the potential to explore four fully realized characters and all their emotional, intellectual and spiritual intricacies.

Right, you're talking about potential. I'm talking about what it is as it stands. In this season, especially, I see the things you're talking about being used as catalysts to explore sexual desire and compatibility. These characters' attitudes towards sex and how they use them are being more interestingly explored by the show than their romantic relationships.

The Adam/Hannah/Natalia thing is probably the most pronounced. We're used to Adam being a weirdo, and when Natalia came in, I kinda expected the eventual fallout would be based on his behavior, or how her togetherness in life is so different from Hannah's, but we actually see that they're pretty good to each other (even his falling off the wagon, he ordered the same girly drink as hers, which struck me more as a genuine attempt to, as he said, "be able to have fun with you"). Instead, the fallout we get is that dark episode bookends about sexual consent.

Episode opener: "I like how clear you are with me." "What other way is there?" And yet, when Adam's kinks come into it, Adam was being explicitly clear about what he wanted, and Natalia wasn't, but only because she was trying to be game. Consent itself is pretty basic stuff, but I think the working reality of it, especially between people who are still figuring each other out like this, can be a complex subject.

Mostly, though, I'll admit I'm just really happy that there is a TV show that recognizes how immensely important sexual satisfaction is to successful relationships and present it as such, since most shows--hell, most movies--use couples' sexual encounters as punctuation rather than a maintained significance.

Qrazy
03-12-2013, 04:20 PM
Right, you're talking about potential. I'm talking about what it is as it stands. In this season, especially, I see the things you're talking about being used as catalysts to explore sexual desire and compatibility. These characters' attitudes towards sex and how they use them are being more interestingly explored by the show than their romantic relationships.

The Adam/Hannah/Natalia thing is probably the most pronounced. We're used to Adam being a weirdo, and when Natalia came in, I kinda expected the eventual fallout would be based on his behavior, or how her togetherness in life is so different from Hannah's, but we actually see that they're pretty good to each other (even his falling off the wagon, he ordered the same girly drink as hers, which struck me more as a genuine attempt to, as he said, "be able to have fun with you"). Instead, the fallout we get is that dark episode bookends about sexual consent.

Episode opener: "I like how clear you are with me." "What other way is there?" And yet, when Adam's kinks come into it, Adam was being explicitly clear about what he wanted, and Natalia wasn't, but only because she was trying to be game. Consent itself is pretty basic stuff, but I think the working reality of it, especially between people who are still figuring each other out like this, can be a complex subject.

Mostly, though, I'll admit I'm just really happy that there is a TV show that recognizes how immensely important sexual satisfaction is to successful relationships and present it as such, since most shows--hell, most movies--use couples' sexual encounters as punctuation rather than a maintained significance.

Nice thoughts and agree on the last paragraph. I'm also perhaps unfairly holding Dunham to a higher standard than most of television although I think in my critiques I'm holding her to about the standard I have for most high end television amc/hbo/etc.

number8
03-12-2013, 04:49 PM
In an episode full of painful moments, the one that stabbed me right in the gut and almost made my teeth shatter was Marnie singing "You can be my white Kate Moss tonight" to Charlie.

Lucky
03-12-2013, 04:51 PM
In an episode full of painful moments, the one that stabbed me right in the gut and almost made my teeth shatter was Marnie singing "You can be my white Kate Moss tonight" to Charlie.

Yes. That struck me as well since it makes no sense as a lyric anymore.

number8
03-12-2013, 04:56 PM
Yes. That struck me as well since it makes no sense as a lyric anymore.

Pretty great satire of all those dudes on YouTube doing acoustic covers of Gaga and the likes and changing "he" to "she" in the lyrics though.

ledfloyd
03-12-2013, 05:20 PM
Ehh, personally I'm just sick of the pervasiveness of graphic sex in art. Freud is too widely embraced by artists for me and I don't find that ceaselessly portraying it communicates all that much of interest after a certain point. But that's just me, to each their own.
I appreciate the way Girls uses graphic sex because it almost always is used to develop characters psychologically. I think this is a pretty clear line of demarcation between Girls and other shows on cable. Like Game of Thrones for instance, which just seems to enjoy throwing boobs at viewers.

Qrazy
03-12-2013, 06:28 PM
I appreciate the way Girls uses graphic sex because it almost always is used to develop characters psychologically. I think this is a pretty clear line of demarcation between Girls and other shows on cable. Like Game of Thrones for instance, which just seems to enjoy throwing boobs at viewers.

HBO in general is terrible for this. One of the only major flaws with The Wire are the glamor shot sex scenes.

Lucky
03-18-2013, 02:15 AM
By far my least favorite episode of the season. The only storyline that felt organic was Soshanna/Ray's. The rest just made me roll my eyes.

Also, FaceTime requires an active WiFi connection, Dunham.

amberlita
03-18-2013, 02:39 AM
I fear I'm on the verge of a Hannah Horvath-level mental breakdown from work stress and deadlines. But I would never do that to my hair. Holy hell.

I'm not sure what I was supposed to make of that ending. Was she going for romantic or fucked up? Because I interpreted the latter. Particularly for Hannah and Marnie who only feel at peace with a devoted man at their side because their respective lives had hit rock bottom and they needed something to go in their favor. If Marnie didn't want Charlie when the weather was fair, she's not going to want him when the clouds part again. Double for Hannah. At least Shoshanna assessed the situation and made a concrete decision.

ledfloyd
03-18-2013, 02:54 AM
I'm not sure what I was supposed to make of that ending. Was she going for romantic or fucked up?
A little of column A, a little of column B.

ThePlashyBubbler
03-18-2013, 03:04 AM
Two years in a row I've had a very adverse reaction to the finale. The scene with Marnie/Charlie at brunch, and the entire last sequence seemed completely off with the show's tone. It's hard for me to put my finger exactly on why, but I felt the same way about the whole wedding plot last year -- it almost seems like a dream sequence it's so heightened.

That said, I would watch an entire show of Adam interacting with his phone.

number8
03-19-2013, 03:02 AM
I was not at all surprise to see in the end credits that Judd Apatow wrote that episode.

The most authentic relationship of the finale was Adam and Siri.

Qrazy
03-19-2013, 03:03 AM
That finale was abysmal.

ledfloyd
03-19-2013, 01:12 PM
Also, FaceTime requires an active WiFi connection, Dunham.
Nope.

Lucky
03-19-2013, 01:56 PM
Nope.

Has something changed over the past year?

number8
03-19-2013, 02:32 PM
Has something changed over the past year?

Yeah, since the release of iOS6.

slqrick
03-19-2013, 11:46 PM
Some really awful stuff in that finale. I never would have thought that of all the things that would bother me on this show, it would be overly saccharine scenes. The stuff with Hannah and Adam at the end seemed like it was lifted out of an ABC Family show, and I could really care less for that coupling so it was just brutal to watch. I like Charlie's sense of humor but being with Marnie again is a dead end for the character. Ray/Shoshanna stuff was good as usual, but also predictable. Forgot that Jessa was on this show.

In terms of sophomore seasons, this was overall much stronger and took chances in ways that stopped the show from falling into any kind of rut. That being said, that finale was really disappointing in the way it brought everything back to status quo pretty much. I found Adam's character to actually be really interesting this year when he was off doing his own thing away from Hannah. I'm not sure how much more mileage they can get out of those two. Likewise, I thought Marnie had some really hilarious moments this year off on her own. I'd like to see more episodes like one where they were all at dinner or something like Hannah's tryst with the neighbor, except with the other characters. The Hannah navel gazing is when the show is at it's weakest.

Sxottlan
03-20-2013, 07:58 AM
I dunno. This show started to lose me this season. Just wasn't as into it.


The Hannah navel gazing is when the show is at it's weakest. As far as I'm concerned, the less Hannah, the better.

This was a big part of the reason why. I just don't like the character. I like most of the other characters. Adam not so much. I guess I'm getting tired of characters that seem crazy for the sake of crazy. And after two seasons, I'm disappointed there isn't more to him. Jessa was also largely forgotten.

Otherwise, I enjoyed how the season took everyone's situation from season one and turned it upside down.

ledfloyd
03-20-2013, 03:19 PM
From "Bad Friend" through "Video Games," I'm not sure there was an episode that was less than stellar. "It's a Shame About Ray" and "One Man's Trash" in particular stand out as just exquisite pieces of television. Unfortunately the season started to show its seems with the introduction of Hannah's OCD, and, despite a really good penultimate episode, the whole thing kind of collapsed in on itself. I liked the individual arcs of the finale (I seem to be alone in loving Adam running across town on FaceTime), but Dunham and Apatow's hands guiding everything to neat resolutions was a bit too keenly felt.

Both seasons have kind of faltered when they attempted to wrap things up. I'm curious to see whether an extra two episodes will make things flow a little better in season three.

number8
03-20-2013, 05:12 PM
Yeah, I'd say S1 was more consistently good, but it didn't hit the peaks of the admittedly uneven S2. That whole middle chunk of this season was just extraordinary stuff. Really too bad about that finale.

number8
04-04-2013, 02:50 PM
So much for Marnie's married life. The actor who plays Charlie has quit the show and won't be back next season.

DavidSeven
04-04-2013, 05:24 PM
From Page Six, so take it for what you will (though they were the first to accurately report he quit):


But sources told Page Six that Abbott ("Charlie") and Dunham began butting heads as the critical-darling series entered production again. “They’ve just started work on Season 3, and Chris is at odds with Lena,” a source said. “He didn’t like the direction things are going in, which seems a bit odd since the show put him on the map.”