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number8
08-03-2012, 12:29 AM
IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1623288/)

http://dribbble.s3.amazonaws.com/users/29682/screenshots/645154/attachments/55419/ParaNorman_flat_web_driblarge. jpg

number8
08-03-2012, 12:34 AM
WTF? We didn't even have an Upcoming Thread for this film? I thought you guys loved Coraline.

Saw it tonight and this was absolutely freaking fantastic. Started out as just a fun horror movie tribute (film opens with basically a stop-motion Lucio Fulci send-up with Dario Argento style cinematography, complete with Jon Brion's score emulating Goblin), but then it ended up being a pretty strong moral message about ignorance.

I hope it wins best animated picture over Brave next year.

Watashi
08-03-2012, 12:38 AM
I want to see it.

I find it cool that we are getting TWO stop-motion animated films (ParaNorman and Frankenweenie) that hark back to classic horror films and both look genuinely really good.

Bosco B Thug
08-03-2012, 01:19 AM
I want to see it.

I find it cool that we are getting TWO stop-motion animated films (ParaNorman and Frankenweenie) that hark back to classic horror films and both look genuinely really good. Frankenweenie will have to get through-the-roof positive reviews for me to see it. The whole project seems very dull, and the trailer that begins like an entire portion of the film playing out seemed like very bad judgment to me.

ParaNorman's trailer, though... it'd been a while since I'd been so wowed by a trailer. Makes me almost surprised that the first word about it here isn't disappointed.

Bosco B Thug
08-03-2012, 01:24 AM
Can't wait.

Watashi
08-03-2012, 01:25 AM
Frankenweenie will have to get through-the-roof positive reviews for me to see it. The whole project seems very dull, and the trailer that begins like an entire portion of the film playing out seemed like very bad judgment to me.


Have you seen the latest trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4rfCfQ9eZQ)? It looks much better.

Watashi
08-03-2012, 01:29 AM
Hotel Transylvania also comes out next month. Which promises to be the exact opposite of quality from these two.

Bosco B Thug
08-03-2012, 01:36 AM
Have you seen the latest trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4rfCfQ9eZQ)? It looks much better.
Okay, that's much better. Sad I need big action and can't tolerate the sweet childhood-and-mortality/boy-and-his-dog story, but yeah, I really can't tolerate it. Passe.

Also, I think Hotel Transylvania looks pretty funny.

Spinal
08-03-2012, 11:21 PM
Yes, I'm very much looking forward to this. Go Laika!

NickGlass
08-09-2012, 05:57 PM
WTF? We didn't even have an Upcoming Thread for this film? I thought you guys loved Coraline.

Saw it tonight and this was absolutely freaking fantastic. Started out as just a fun horror movie tribute (film opens with basically a stop-motion Lucio Fulci send-up with Dario Argento style cinematography, complete with Jon Brion's score emulating Goblin), but then it ended up being a pretty strong moral message about ignorance.

I hope it wins best animated picture over Brave next year.

What?! Yes, I plan to see this, and knowing Jon Brion did the score helps a ton. I was in Lincoln Center yesterday and the small, window-display dioramas were very detailed and impressive, as well.

I like Caroline fine, for the record.

Dukefrukem
08-09-2012, 06:05 PM
Lucio Fulci? Ughhhh

eternity
08-12-2012, 01:47 AM
Hotel Transylvania also comes out next month. Which promises to be the exact opposite of quality from these two.
Genndy Tartakovsky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

number8
08-17-2012, 05:37 PM
Here's my review. (http://www.justpressplay.net/reviews/9714-paranorman.html)

D_Davis
08-17-2012, 10:04 PM
Have you seen the latest trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4rfCfQ9eZQ)? It looks much better.

Wow! That looks great.

Ivan Drago
08-18-2012, 03:58 AM
Genndy Tartakovsky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Exactly. I'm not dismissing Hotel Transylvania just yet.

EDIT: And Frankenweenie looks great too.

Sven
08-18-2012, 04:08 PM
My sister-in-law just got a job at Laika. Sweet.

Dillard
08-19-2012, 01:28 AM
3D or not 3D on this one in theaters? Should I see it one way or the other? Or rather should I fork over extra for 3D. Wow. Difficult to spew out the correct question.

Winston*
08-19-2012, 01:29 AM
Weird. This doesn't come out here until January.

eternity
08-19-2012, 02:20 AM
Holy shit. That is my review.

Watashi
08-22-2012, 05:16 AM
Great movie.

When they reveal that the jock was gay, there was dead silence in my theater. I live in a very conservative town, so it was really awkward in an auditorium full of families. Never thought I would see that in a "kids" movie.

eternity
08-22-2012, 09:49 AM
Great movie.

When they reveal that the jock was gay, there was dead silence in my theater. I live in a very conservative town, so it was really awkward in an auditorium full of families. Never thought I would see that in a "kids" movie.

Four people started clapping and there was a mix of uproarious laughter and audible disgust in the theater. So happy it was a sold out crowd. What an unexpected, perfect moment.

ciaoelor
08-24-2012, 01:02 AM
3D or not 3D on this one in theaters? Should I see it one way or the other? Or rather should I fork over extra for 3D. Wow. Difficult to spew out the correct question.

Not worth seeing in 3D.

Sxottlan
08-25-2012, 12:22 AM
This was very good. This is what I wanted Dark Shadows to be.

Don't know why it got an August release when the critics are all on vacation.

EyesWideOpen
08-25-2012, 08:34 PM
Not worth seeing in 3D.

This answer works for any movie.

Bosco B Thug
08-26-2012, 06:33 PM
Some ending spoilers...

This was a lot more uneven than I wanted it to be. Brilliant individual moments throughout, but the story is sort of an ungodly mess, with the social positivity of its message valiantly surviving the confusion of its story. Strong character writing fights an unfocused core of personal odyssey with logey supernatural adventure and hit-and-miss comedy, while an indelicate climax loudly insists on extraneous morality concerning "the victim becoming the bully" while the hero is tossed around violently for our satisfaction. Good, even very good, but this actually just makes Brave fare even better in memory.

Stay Puft
08-28-2012, 12:56 AM
I enjoyed this. Had a smile on my face the whole time.

The animation was incredible. The combination of styles and visual effects, and how they were able to blend it into a cohesive whole, was mighty impressive. I loved the whole look of the film, the lighting in the interiors of Norman's home, or the first time Norman passes through the veil and sees the Judge in the forest... I enjoyed just soaking in the atmosphere. I can agree with some of the structural criticisms expressed by Bosco and 8, and I found the second act protracted given the obviousness of the upcoming twist, and yes some of the comedy is hit or miss, but overall I'd say I was thoroughly charmed.

Bosco B Thug
08-28-2012, 02:22 AM
Yes, the look and atmosphere alone, and the audaciousness of both, makes it worthy of being called a success. Its milieu of a gritty town is incredible for an animated film (the graffiti artist!).

Also, the opening scene = literally the best thing ever. (Wish there were more movie jokes... FYI Everyone's Expectations, horror movie nerdiness is short-lived, to make way for the serious themes and Norman's dark emotions).

Henry Gale
09-01-2012, 10:40 PM
This was really good, indeed. Just insanely well-crafted, making such an extraordinarily detailed setting where any one frame is packed with endless ideas is something that could be daunting for any story to live up to. But its celebration of its influences, best character work, consistently firing humour (with a hit ratio that's admittedly not perfect) and themes all perfectly fit into its right angle-allergic universe. The movie just ends up feeling so unique that I can't imagine it having been visualized any other way. Always nice to see a modern wide-release movie ostensibly made for kids that doesn't shy away from some of the darker places this does, and the younger audience members didn't seem bothered by that at all.

Also, the movie was surprisingly emotional. I say that about a few bits along the way, but mainly the very ending hit me in a way I definitely didn't expect and can't really put my finger on. I still think Coraline is better overall, but ParaNorman had a more defined, stronger, thematically-fueled catharsis for me. Either way, while it's heartbreaking what Disney did to Selick's new film, I hope Laika can thrive with projects as good as these first two in their future.


Four people started clapping and there was a mix of uproarious laughter and audible disgust in the theater. So happy it was a sold out crowd. What an unexpected, perfect moment.

Before seeing the movie, I read this but not Wats' spoiler-box, so afterward I assumed it referred to the reveal of the witch being a little girl. But of course, now I see it was something that shouldn't have been so deeply shocking that got that sort of hilarious reaction. My theatre was mostly a few short, seemingly well-intentioned laughs, but nothing too memorable. Maybe that's just the difference between a Toronto matinee audience and how you guys saw it.

And I knew I sort of recognized the voice of the jock, but didn't try too hard to figure it out and was mostly captivated by how funny he was. Somehow finding out during the end credits that it was Casey Affleck made it even better in retrospect. He really embodied that dumbass beautifully.

Overall, I agree that the movie isn't anywhere near perfect, with a lot of stretches structured awkwardly, some characters not given much real function by the end, and broadly nitpick-y stuff like that. But the things it does best, it does fantastically, and that's the stuff I'll remember most.

***½ / A-

number8
09-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Maybe that's just the difference between a Toronto matinee audience and how you guys saw it.

Obviously it depends on where you are. I've read some accounts of that twist vocally not being so well-received by parents in certain parts of America.

Stay Puft
09-02-2012, 01:06 AM
I'm still thinking about this movie. I'm tempted to go see it again.

Going back over some of the moments that got big laughs, I think my favorite bit is Alvin dancing to impress a girl. It's a good example of the strength of the animation, as well, not just in the big obvious special effects but in the small details, the facial animations as well as the body movements of the characters. I laughed in the theatre, but I'm laughing even harder remembering it now.

My audience (also Toronto, late night screening) laughed and clapped during the boyfriend line, but the biggest reactions were reserved for the horror references (Norman's ringtone, etc.) and stuff like Prenderghast's tongue falling on Norman's face.

eternity
09-04-2012, 08:53 AM
Obviously it depends on where you are. I've read some accounts of that twist vocally not being so well-received by parents in certain parts of America.
I'm in Arizona, so...yeah, needless to say there were a few bad apples in my audience who really did not like that.

Dukefrukem
11-19-2012, 05:33 PM
Awww man, they ripped off John Leguizamo's "D. E. D. Dead!" line.

Kurosawa Fan
12-22-2012, 01:26 AM
Saw it tonight and this was absolutely freaking fantastic. Started out as just a fun horror movie tribute (film opens with basically a stop-motion Lucio Fulci send-up with Dario Argento style cinematography, complete with Jon Brion's score emulating Goblin), but then it ended up being a pretty strong moral message about ignorance.

I hope it wins best animated picture over Brave next year.

My thoughts exactly. Fun nod to classic horror turned strong message about not only ignorance but also acceptance (plus bullying and victims. Loved the music, the animation, the way it totally embraced the morbid and macabre right through to the end, and aside from a few missteps, the humor as well. Really strong work.

transmogrifier
01-22-2013, 11:00 PM
77/100


The best animated film I've seen in a while, a perfect blend of humor and heartfelt message that doesn't come across as cloying - in fact, it is exquisitely sad and bittersweet. What sets it apart though is the direction; it is so smooth in its editing, and the shots so well-chosen, it glides along until it soars. A very pleasant surprise.

Spinal
01-22-2013, 11:22 PM
I thought this was just OK. The humor fell flat for me and I don't think the mixture of ghosts, zombies and witches was successful. I would have rather seen them focus on one of those elements and develop a story around that. The definition of this universe and its supernatural peculiarities was not clear or particularly interesting to me. That said, I liked that it had a much different rhythm than something by Dreamworks, Pixar or Disney and some of the animation towards the end was spectacular.

Mal
01-29-2013, 05:03 AM
Freakin loved this. Brion's score is brilliant. The voice acting is brilliant. Damn, I have to see this again.

Irish
01-29-2013, 07:47 PM
Lots of fun. Great animation. Reminded me a lot of "How to Train Your Dragon" in terms of its tone, the characters, and the "message."

Unfortunately, it also reminded me of that film because "ParaNorman" suffers from the same thin plot and heavy handiness that "Dragon" does, and seems to be going for the same very-young audience. As an adult, I kinda resented the fact that the movie telegraphs its plot so damn clearly.

I also think it's far too dark and scary for younger viewers.

The reveal -- a group of adults murdered a little girl in the woods -- is deeply, deeply fucked up. I mean, think about that for a minute. Think about the audience. The movie, obviously, can't ever be graphic but I thought even the idea they were presenting here was beyond the pale.

Although, I did think the resolve was good --

-- at least in that it depended on words and appeals to emotion, rather than violence or cleverness.

It's good, but I don't think Norman is in Best Pic territory. The animation category suffers from lack of choice. There's probably an average of one big studio animated picture released each month, and that's a pretty shallow pool to pull from when you've got to fill five nomination slots.

Some of the winners of that award deserved it more than others, but I can't buy into the idea of classing "Norman" on the same level as "Spirited Away," "Finding Nemo," or even "Shrek."

number8
01-29-2013, 08:04 PM
I also think it's far too dark and scary for younger viewers.

You severely underestimate children.

Winston*
01-29-2013, 08:14 PM
I think it probably is too scary for young children. A little girl whose family was sitting next to me seemed really frightened. Had to get out of her seat to hug into her dad.

Winston*
01-29-2013, 08:16 PM
Great movie.

When they reveal that the jock was gay, there was dead silence in my theater. I live in a very conservative town, so it was really awkward in an auditorium full of families. Never thought I would see that in a "kids" movie.

This was great in how it tied into the more movie's more general anti-closed mindedness theme. Quite a sly film.

number8
01-29-2013, 08:25 PM
Oh, come on. We grew up with Nightmare Before Christmas, Goosebumps, Ghostbusters and Are You Afraid of the Dark?

Winston*
01-29-2013, 08:44 PM
Parts of Paranorman are more straightforward horror than Nightmare Before Christmas and Ghostbusters, I think. Didn't watch Goosebumps or Are You Afraid of the Dark? Read the Goosebumps books when I was a few years older than this girl was.

transmogrifier
01-29-2013, 11:09 PM
Some of the winners of that award deserved it more than others, but I can't buy into the idea of classing "Norman" on the same level as "Spirited Away," "Finding Nemo," or even "Shrek."

Shrek? Shrek?.....Shrek?

Shrek is an abomination.

Irish
01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
Shrek? Shrek?.....Shrek?

Shrek is an abomination.

Ha. I think it's a difficult one to judge now because of all the sequels, which could be described using variations of the words 'craptacular' and 'cash in.'

"Shrek" is definitely the weakest of the all the winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Animate d_Feature), but it still has more depth than "ParaNorman." And by depth here I pretty much mean 'has a meaningful subplot in its running time' and 'characters that aren't completely and utterly based on high archetypes.'

Kurosawa Fan
01-29-2013, 11:15 PM
Parts of Paranorman are more straightforward horror than Nightmare Before Christmas and Ghostbusters, I think. Didn't watch Goosebumps or Are You Afraid of the Dark? Read the Goosebumps books when I was a few years older than this girl was.

Yeah, my seven-year-old was too scared to finish it. He watched The Simpsons with my wife in the bedroom while my oldest and I finished the movie.

As for Irish's first spoilered text, I have no problem addressing this with my kids. It happened. It's a part of Puritan history. I wouldn't go into graphic detail, but in talking out the themes of the film, and addressing the need for reason and empathy in society instead of panic and violence, it serves as a real life example of what can happen when people aren't better than their basest instincts and are instead governed by fear.

transmogrifier
01-29-2013, 11:22 PM
"Shrek" is definitely the weakest of the all the winners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Animate d_Feature), but it still has more depth than "ParaNorman." And by depth here I pretty much mean 'has a meaningful subplot in its running time' and 'characters that aren't completely and utterly based on high archetypes.'

Yeah, I'm just going to disagree with you, think you're crazy and walk away.

Winston*
01-29-2013, 11:36 PM
I think echoing The Crucible to convey both themes both applicable to children (bullying) and and adults (contemporary social intolerance e.g. homophobia) is plenty deep for a mainstream animated film.

Irish
01-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Yeah, my seven-year-old was too scared to finish it. He watched The Simpsons with my wife in the bedroom while my oldest and I finished the movie.

As for Irish's first spoilered text, I have no problem addressing this with my kids. It happened. It's a part of Puritan history. I wouldn't go into graphic detail, but in talking out the themes of the film, and addressing the need for reason and empathy in society instead of panic and violence, it serves as a real life example of what can happen when people aren't better than their basest instincts and are instead governed by fear.

Ah, the teachable moment!

But how did you address it with the kid out of the room? I mean, he left. When I said I thought the movie was too scary, I was imagining kids about his age. They seem to be the primary audience for this movie.

I dunno, man. It seemed fucked up.

"Hey, you know those authority figures that are around you every day? Step out of line, and they'll murder ya in the woods!". That's a hyperbolic way of putting it, but I dunno. Seemed way dark. I'd think this would be kinda fucked up if it appeared in material for adults..

Irish
01-29-2013, 11:41 PM
Yeah, I'm just going to disagree with you, think you're crazy and walk away.

Not so fast, Clown Boy.

Are you just arguing that "Norman" has depth or simply that "Shrek" sucks? If it's the former, then I'd invite you to approach this from that angle -- and explain your case.

If it's the latter, then I gotta shrug too. I had a lot of problems with "Shrek", but a thin story and characterizations weren't among them.

Watashi
01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
You don't think Norman has depth? The film has a lot to say about intolerance in a very unique way (by comparing bullying to Puritan witch hunts) and even addresses gay bullying slyly.

Irish
01-29-2013, 11:54 PM
I think echoing The Crucible to convey both themes both applicable to children (bullying) and and adults (contemporary social intolerance e.g. homophobia) is plenty deep for a mainstream animated film.

That's a good point. My issue here is that this is a kid's movie aimed, presumably, at very young kids. It's not a high school English class (where I studied "The Crucible"). I think there's a wide gap between 'bullying' and 'murdering a little girl.' Just in tone, wow, deeply fucked up.

You're making a distinction as an adult that the primary audience won't be able to make. (As an aside, I can't give ya the homophobia thing. That was a throwaway line at the end of the movie that has no bearing on anything at all).

Irish
01-29-2013, 11:57 PM
You don't think Norman has depth? The film has a lot to say about intolerance in a very unique way (by comparing bullying to Puritan witch hunts) and even addresses gay bullying slyly.

Narratively and structurally, no.

There's a difference between that and having a theme -- or what was, for KF, a 'teachable moment' for children. Almost every animated movie has some kind of moral. They're modern day fables, and that tradition goes back to the Brothers Grimm.

But having a moral to the story isn't the kind of depth of talking about, especially since in this context having a moral isn't remarkable at all.

Watashi
01-29-2013, 11:58 PM
You're making a distinction as an adult that the primary audience won't be able to make. (As an aside, I can't give ya the homophobia thing. That was a throwaway line at the end of the movie that has no bearing on anything at all).

Wow. I disagree with this completely. I think it's set up from the start.

Kurosawa Fan
01-29-2013, 11:58 PM
Ah, the teachable moment!

But how did you address it with the kid out of the room? I mean, he left. When I said I thought the movie was too scary, I was imagining kids about his age. They seem to be the primary audience for this movie.

I dunno, man. It seemed fucked up.

"Hey, you know those authority figures that are around you every day? Step out of line, and they'll murder ya in the woods!". That's a hyperbolic way of putting it, but I dunno. Seemed way dark. I'd think this would be kinda fucked up if it appeared in material for adults..

Well, perhaps the audience is my 11-year-old, who loved it. 10-14 year olds seem to be quite taken with this (my two nephews, as well as my 15-year-old sister). Perhaps your idea of the audience is not their idea of the audience. As a parent, there was a reason I didn't take my 7-year-old to the theater to see it, and instead waited for the DVD. Reasonable parents should have done the same thing.

number8
01-29-2013, 11:59 PM
"Hey, you know those authority figures that are around you every day? Step out of line, and they'll murder ya in the woods!". That's a hyperbolic way of putting it, but I dunno. Seemed way dark. I'd think this would be kinda fucked up if it appeared in material for adults..

He's not talking about the gag at the end. The entire first act with Norman is straight up gay bullying language. At one point, Norman's father told him he wishes he was more like other boys, and his mother literally said in response to it, "It gets better."

Kurosawa Fan
01-29-2013, 11:59 PM
Wow. I disagree with this completely. I think it's set up from the start.

Yeah, that's untrue. Again, my son picked up on this, and we talked about how that worked with the theme after the movie was over.

Watashi
01-30-2013, 12:01 AM
I mean, Norman's mom at the beginning tells her son that "it gets better" when discussing his condition.

Watashi
01-30-2013, 12:01 AM
I should read what Ary says too.

Winston*
01-30-2013, 12:07 AM
Also that line isn't just throwaway. It underlines the homophobia theme by retroactively placing a gay character in the same group as two characters that have been discriminated against because of their appearance (his brother) and their personality (Norman), a group that has been pursued by ignorant townsfolk.

Irish
01-30-2013, 12:09 AM
Well, perhaps the audience is my 11-year-old, who loved it. 10-14 year olds seem to be quite taken with this (my two nephews, as well as my 15-year-old sister). Perhaps your idea of the audience is not their idea of the audience. As a parent, there was a reason I didn't take my 7-year-old to the theater to see it, and instead waited for the DVD. Reasonable parents should have done the same thing.

I'm reading this from the position that the intended audience are kids a year or two younger than the protagonist. That, and the relatively unsophisticated, straight-on nature of the material made me think "Norman" skewed very young.

That doesn't mean I thought other kids couldn't watch it and enjoy it. (Like, 11 year olds probably wouldn't find this scary at all. Or really all that fucked up). Kids younger than that, though, I don't know. Ick.

transmogrifier
01-30-2013, 12:42 AM
I have an idea that might help: watch a movie as if YOU were the audience, rather than a member of some hypothetical target market. You might enjoy things more.

Irish
01-30-2013, 12:46 AM
He's not talking about the gag at the end. The entire first act with Norman is straight up gay bullying language. At one point, Norman's father told him he wishes he was more like other boys, and his mother literally said in response to it, "It gets better."

That's a good point. I didn't catch the "it's get better line" and thought the father's reference to "limp wristed hippie language" was really odd.


I have an idea that might help: watch a movie as if YOU were the audience, rather than some hypothetical target market. You might enjoy things more.

What a strange thing to say, especially in the context of a children's movie. By this outburst, am I to take it you are unwilling or unable to say anything substantive about "Norman's" characters and story?

transmogrifier
01-30-2013, 12:50 AM
What a strange thing to say, especially in the context of a children's movie. By this outburst, am I to take it you are unwilling or unable to say anything substantive about "Norman's" characters and story?

It's not a strange thing to say, because that is what you are doing. When I was watching the climax, with the genuine emotion and melancholy involved in talking a scared little girl out of her tree, the last thing I was thinking was "Wow, I wonder what 7 year olds think about this?". You approach films from the point of view of a movie executive sometimes.

And if you want a defense of the movies characters and story, I suggest you read what other people have written on this very page. I'm merely going to repeat what they said.

Irish
01-30-2013, 12:53 AM
It's not a strange thing to say, because that is what you are doing. When I was watching the climax, with the genuine emotion and melancholy involved in talking a scared little girl out of her tree, the last thing I was thinking was "Wow, I wonder what 7 year olds think about this?". You approach films with from the point of view of a movie executive sometimes.

I don't think it's particularly out of bounds, or odd, to wonder if something is age appropriate when you're watching a kid's movie, especially as you're likely watching them with kids.

Fair enough on the movie-exec thing. But I'm not sure how/why that's necessarily a problem. I like playing inside-baseball.


And if you want a defense of the movies characters and story, I suggest you read what other people have written on this very page. I'm merely going to repeat what they said.

Not quite the same points as I was attempting to raise.

number8
01-30-2013, 02:21 AM
That's a good point. I didn't catch the "it's get better line" and thought the father's reference to "limp wristed hippie language" was really odd.

See also: neighborhood parents not letting their children play with him, F word written on his locker, his friend's brother whispering about him being "different," humiliating his dad by outing himself at a school play.

Irish
01-30-2013, 03:27 AM
See also: neighborhood parents not letting their children play with him, F word written on his locker, his friend's brother whispering about him being "different," humiliating his dad by outing himself at a school play.

Yeah. I have a problem now. I just watched this again. Most of what you said isn't accurate.

There is nothing in the dialogue that's "straight up gay bullying language." Norman gets called freak, weirdo, and variations of geek (mostly from Alvin. A kid offscreen calls him "AbNorman").

That's not gay specific. It's completely generic. I used (and had used against me) the same kind of slang when I was in grade school. (We also used sped, retard, and gay. Yes, I realize this is a kid's movie and they're not explicitly going to have someone call Norman a 'faggot,' but still.) Most of the euphemisms and double entendres come from the father. The bulk of those are said offscreen in the first act (as Norman, and the audience, eavesdrops on the parents arguing).

Nowhere in this movie does the mother utter the line "It gets better," nor does she say anything that uses similar language. I found a copy of the script (http://screenplayexplorer.com/wp-content/scripts/ParaNorman.pdf) (it looks to be pretty much a straight conscription of the movie), and this line doesn't appear there either.

Still, I think it's a valid interpretation, but also one that largely works for any outsider class (Norman is a hardcore horror fan, too, it seems, and overly interested in the macabre. So is the movie's bullying "straight up nerd bashing" too?).

So, yeah, +1 to "ParaNorman" for a clever use of this subtext (even though it'll go straight over the heads of most of the intended audience). This still doesn't have anything to do with my complaints of the movie as forerunner for Best Animated Feature and the lack of depth in its characterizations and storyline.

number8
01-30-2013, 05:53 AM
Hmm. It's been months since I saw the film so I don't remember the exact wordings of it, but I definitely remember noticing how some of the language in that first act in regards to Norman's bullying seem to have been cribbed from LGBT safe space talking points*, which was why the movie got extra traction during its release by some gay publications promoting it, and I even read an interview with the director where he talks about it. He specifically said the thing Winston said, that the reason they decided to go with that gag about the jock being gay at the end was because he felt it would be hypocritical and cowardly for them to make a movie with pro-gay tolerance message and not have a gay character in it.

*Source: my girlfriend works for GLSEN.

Irish
01-30-2013, 07:27 AM
It's been months since I saw the film so I don't remember the exact wordings of it, but I definitely remember noticing how some of the language in that first act in regards to Norman's bullying seem to have been cribbed from LGBT safe space talking points*, which was why the movie got extra traction during its release by some gay publications promoting it, and I even read an interview with the director where he talks about it.

Do me a favor and ask her, see if she remembers anything. I'd like to know the viewpoint, if nothing else than for my own elucidation.

number8
01-30-2013, 12:59 PM
I'm probably gonna go rent this now. You owe me $1, Irish.

number8
01-30-2013, 01:01 PM
Here's one of the interviews I read, on The Advocate no less. I know there were more.


The Advocate: I believe thatParaNorman (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00993FEUK/ref=cm_sw_su_dp) is the first mainstream animated film with a main character who is gay. I loved that it was a punch line, but not at Mitch’s expense.
Butler: Yes, I believe it is. It was important to us. We were telling a story that was fundamentally about intolerance. We believed that it was important to have the strength of our convictions. And yes, we played it off as a punch line to a joke. But in a sense, that made it all the more potent, I think, because Mitch is just an ordinary guy — and what I wanted to do with the script throughout the story was, first of all, to turn preconceptions on their head. But also, every character in the movie is judging someone else, good and bad, usually misjudging, and I wanted to make the audience complicit in that. You think you know that a zombie is going to want to eat your brain, you think that this dumb jock is straight. Actually, you don’t know everything just by looking at them. That was important to me. And also, I thought it was a funny joke.

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/dvds/2012/11/29/why-paranorman-featured-first-gay-character-animated-film

Irish
01-30-2013, 08:50 PM
I'm probably gonna go rent this now. You owe me $1, Irish.

:D Post a follow up after you see it again.

dreamdead
02-05-2013, 02:09 AM
The humor in the first act is awesome here. A good "psting" joke, the hockey mask, and others. And was that an Asian prostitute?

The LGBT material seems haphazard since the uncle is initially identified as weird and eccentric and thus a bad influence on Norman. But, lacking the follow-through to suggest Goodman's character has this angle, it doesn't feel quite developed. While the jock undercurrent works, I don't think it's as seamless as 8 makes it out to be.

Some of the appeal starts to drop off in the final act, where the morale overshadows the character. I think I wanted the witch to be more dynamic. Though the film plays with the archetype of the villain and undercuts that type, it wraps up a bit too neatly, staying in the abstract for me emotionally. I find the interaction between the grandmother and Norman filled with a sense of grace, though, and wish the film had shown more of those interactions so that they don't seem like mere bookends.

Pretty animation style throughout.

Gizmo
05-15-2013, 04:41 PM
I saw this and thought it was pretty meh. Seemed to be too adult for kids (other than maybe tween aged ones) and a little too 'cartoonish' for adults. It looks pretty, but I just didn't really enjoy the substance, the jokes mostly missed and the story was a bit chaotic at times.

Qrazy
05-16-2013, 01:42 AM
I watched 10 minutes of this and found it extremely boring, I guess I'll give it another shot down the road.

Watashi
05-16-2013, 02:13 AM
I watched 10 minutes of this and found it extremely boring, I guess I'll give it another shot down the road.

I stared at your face for 10 minutes and found it extremely boring.

Qrazy
05-16-2013, 02:27 AM
I stared at your face for 10 minutes and found it extremely boring.

I've decided I have a very low tolerance for this style of morbid filmmaking. I guess I'm not much of a Tim Burton fan either.

megladon8
06-08-2013, 05:52 PM
This was great.

I'm surprised no one here has mentioned my favorite gag in the movie - the guy waiting for his chips to drop in the vending machine while zombies lurk down the alleyway to get him.

The audio/visual experience is amazing, and it has a wonderful story and strong characters to back it up.

Watching the making-of featurettes made me want to build a little town in my basement.

Dead & Messed Up
07-06-2014, 04:59 AM
Is it too late to say that now there's a third contender for my favorite horror film of 2012. The Cabin in the Woods, Kill List, and now this gorgeous smorgasbord of horror iconography laden with actual meaning and wonderful subversions. What a charming and visually delirious movie. That climax in the witch's lair took my breath away.

I mean, really, fantastic.