The Comic Book Discussion Thread

[megladon8]

I'm really digging JMS's "Thor".

[megladon8]

So for my 5 favorite writers and artists, I've spent a long time thinking about it and it would probably look something like this (in no particular order):

Writers

Warren Ellis
Grant Morrison
Chris Claremont
Jack Kirby
Kurt Busiek


Artists

Neal Adams
Jack Kirby
JH Williams III
Mike Mignola
George Perez

[Ezee E]

Read Batwoman, and now I think I came across the flaw of reading online. The layout of most of the comic is on two pages, which, unless you have a giant HD monitor, you can't appreciate as much as you would on print. That's some great, original stuff right there. Probably the best art out of the new ones I've read.

With that, it sure beats trying to find a comic book store. I've been to three, and none of them have shit, and one of them is about to close. That's unfortunate, because the employee there was the only one that didn't seem "above" those comics.

On other note, should we just have a "New 52" thread?

[number8]

That's not a bad idea. Keeps this thread from becoming the ghetto of this subforum, so to speak.

[Melville]

Top 5 Artists:
Chris Ware
Dave Sim
Al Columbia
Mike Mignola
Jacques Tardi
HMs: David Mazzuchelli, Frank Miller, Jim Woodring, Jason, Lorenzo Mattotti, Chester Brown

Top 5 Writers:
Chris Ware
Jim Woodring
Charles Schulz
Alan Moore
Chester Brown

[Russ]

Top 5 Writers:

Jim Woodring
Chester Brown
I love you, man.

Hey Melville, have you ever read Joe Matt's Peepshow?

[Melville]

I love you, man.

Hey Melville, have you ever read Joe Matt's Peepshow?
I read one issue of it a long time ago. At the time, it seemed to me that it largely just wallowed in Joe Matt's ugly behavior. But I've been told there's a lot more to it once you read more of it, and wallowing in ugly behavior sounds more appealing to me now anyway.

Have you read Chester Brown's most recent book, Paying for It? I didn't realize it existed until just now. Sounds like an interesting move into a sparer, more emotionless style. I haven't read any of Jim Woodring's stuff after The Frank Book. I plan to buy all of it once I've moved.

[megladon8]

Chester Brown's latest book "Paying For It" destroyed my view of one of my favorite childhood TV hosts.

[number8]

Sook-Yin Lee? Why?

[megladon8]

Sook-Yin Lee? Why?


Have you read the book?

[number8]

Have you read the book?

No, but I know her and I know they dated, which is why I'm curious.

[megladon8]

No, but I know her and I know they dated, which is why I'm curious.


Well of course we only get his point of view, but she was pretty much solely responsible for him giving up any attempts at relationships with women, instead choosing to become somewhat of a regular with prostitutes.

She kind of destroyed him.

[ledfloyd]

i didn't see it that way. i certainly don't think it was her fault.

[megladon8]

i didn't see it that way. i certainly don't think it was her fault.


You don't think what she did was realy awful?

"So like, I know you're in love with me and we were planning a future together and everything, and I'm not breaking up with you per se, but I'm gonna start sleeping with other people now. So I'm gonna need you to start sleeping on the couch because I need the bed. For sex. And we're gonna be loud.

Kthx!"

[number8]

Really? Now I'm curious. The reviews I've read said the book begins with them mutually breaking up. Brown himself said in interviews that it was amicable and they're still very close friends to this day. I believe Sook-Yin Lee herself helped promote Paying For It.

[megladon8]

Perhaps my personal feelings clouded my judgment?

I dunno...if someone did that to me I would hardly consider the break up "amicable".

[ledfloyd]

but the thing is he consented to it all. and he even told his friends he didn't have a problem with any of the things she was doing. i wouldn't react well to it either, but i can't blame her for doing things he allowed her to do. the option to break up or move out was always there.

[number8]

Solicit for Leviathan Strikes.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2011/09/BMINC_LEV1_jsadfhklasd6f8as98d f6245kjhsdf.jpg


“The long-awaited conclusion to season 1 of BATMAN INCORPORATED is here at last!” said Morrison. “For months, Batman and his allies have fought a shadow campaign against the deadly legions of the mysterious Leviathan, but now it’s time for all-out war – a war which Batman may not be able to win. Schoolgirl assassins! Bat-robots! Nazi masterminds with Alzheimer’s! Guest stars galore! Batman and Spoiler team to face the School of Night while Batman Incorporated travels to a sinister Cold War interrogation facility to face the mind-bending menace of Doctor Dedalus for the last time while the true identity of Leviathan is finally revealed, with shocking consequences for the Dark Knight. With incredible artwork from Cameron Stewart (BATMAN AND ROBIN MUST DIE) and Chris Burnham (BATMAN INC.), LEVIATHAN STRIKES! rounds out season 1 and is also the prologue to 2012’s BATMAN: LEVIATHAN – the epic, tragic, final act of a story six years long.”

[megladon8]

Hmmm...I got a copy of vol. 1 of "Thor Visionaries: Walter Simonson" and I'm pretty sure this one is colour corrected.

The pics Sven posted suggested that the "proper" printing would be on regular newsprint paper, but this is glossy with much bolder, shinier colours.

Kind of disappointed.

[Sven]

It's colored as per the original separations. Sure the colors are bold and shiny, but that's just because it wasn't printed thirty years ago on decent paper.

[megladon8]

It's colored as per the original separations. Sure the colors are bold and shiny, but that's just because it wasn't printed thirty years ago on decent paper.


Okay, okay, we're all friends here.


I was just caught off guard when I opened the book to shiny pages. I was expecting old newsprint, ala the "Fourth World" books.

I know that many people say DC is much better at creating the omnibuses of older works than Marvel is.

[Sven]

I do find that Marvel is much more prone to gloss than I prefer, though DC's paper preferences generally have a shorter shelf-life. The textures of the Visionaries reprints are actually among my favorite for comic printing. They are more permanent than newsprint ("decent paper" in my last post meant to read "newsprint"), allowing the colors to pop without making them feel antique, the way embedded ink on truly glossy paper does.

Anyway, at least it's the original colors.

[megladon8]

My god, Garth Ennis' "The Pro" is hilarious.

[megladon8]

I'm torn on "Promethea".

The base concept is brilliant. J.H. Williams dazzles with innovative page layouts and gorgeous designs.

But Alan Moore too often abandons story telling for philosophical ramblings that are, quite frankly, boring.

The best issues are those that leave the philosophy at a level inherent in the story and character, rather than trying to give a freshman course on the "immateria".

[dreamdead]

I'm torn on "Promethea".

The base concept is brilliant. J.H. Williams dazzles with innovative page layouts and gorgeous designs.

But Alan Moore too often abandons story telling for philosophical ramblings that are, quite frankly, boring.

The best issues are those that leave the philosophy at a level inherent in the story and character, rather than trying to give a freshman course on the "immateria".

I find that the whole philosophy critique is often overstated. Although the second half of the series presents Sophie as more of a cipher than a character, Moore reconciles this tendency with Sophie's whole flight from the Promethea idea itself, which feels tied to character rather than philosophy.

And Promethea contains one of Moore's fullest encapsulations on queer desire and all of its attendant ambiguities. I love it for that, in addition to the absolutely amazing final three or so issues, which is beautifully disjointed and willing to directly engage the reader in a way that I find effective.

[Sven]

And Promethea contains one of Moore's fullest encapsulations on queer desire and all of its attendant ambiguities. I love it for that, in addition to the absolutely amazing final three or so issues, which is beautifully disjointed and willing to directly engage the reader in a way that I find effective.

One of my favorite moments in the series is at the end, when the two police officers are witnessing the event and one turns to the other and asks "Do you want to fool around?"

I have a terrific love for issue 12, which is Moore's musings on the Tarot. So utterly stunning, and I would venture more advanced than a freshman class rambling.

[number8]

People always rave about the tarot issue, but the final "poster" issue is my favorite. I need to track down an actual copy of the issue.

[ledfloyd]

with all this new 52 stuff did we forget to mention that ed brubaker closed out his best work to date last week with last of the innocent #4? a wonderfully concise treatise on the dangers of nostalgia viewed through the lens of archie comics. brilliant work.

[megladon8]

Man, I am totally taken with Jonathan Hickman's "Fantastic Four" work. Does his "FF" title come even close to the issue-to-issue brilliance presented here?

Fascinating, moving stuff.

In fact, is there any other "Fantastic Four" run I should check out that will not leave me disappointed after this?

A great surprise, especially after being thoroughly underwhelmed by his "Transhuman" book.

[number8]

with all this new 52 stuff did we forget to mention that ed brubaker closed out his best work to date last week with last of the innocent #4? a wonderfully concise treatise on the dangers of nostalgia viewed through the lens of archie comics. brilliant work.

Nay, I mentioned it. I said Batwoman was the book of the week, if we conveniently forget that Criminal was out.

[number8]

Huh. Since I was buying it monthly, I didn't realize that the Batwoman "Elegy" arc of Detective was collected with an intro by Rachel Maddow. Kinda wanna track it down now.

[dreamdead]

The Maddow intro is mildly disappointing because she affirms such love for Rucka that she ends up nearly discounting the artistic choices made throughout the book, which are (though tied to Rucka's scripts) so much of what made it special. Most of the extra material (covers and a few script pages to compare with Williams's imagining of them) are similarly superfluous, though I love the narrative enough that I've got both single issues and the collected volume.

[ledfloyd]

maddow is a huge rucka fan? could she be any more awesome?

[megladon8]

Wow. "Severed" is somethin' else.

[megladon8]

8 - if you could choose one, which would be your favorite arc so far with Brubaker's "Criminal" titles? And why?

[Sven]

Captain Britain is well-written, but I can't help but feel like vampires weren't the most interesting route Cornell could have taken. The concept of England as the center of anti-vampiric ideology is a fun one, but it's still just boring hordes of vampires. The corridor-demon plot was better. Both Wisdom and Knight and Squire demonstrate a greater affinity for narrative, character, and culture, and in a third of the space.

Still, a read I would not be hesitant to recommend.

[megladon8]

I really know nothing at all about "Captain Britain". I'll keep my eyes out.

"Planetary" amazes me all over on a re-read. Awe-inspiring stuff.

[Acapelli]

vampires whose home base is a castle on the moon and are sailing through space on a magic pirate ship to invade england.

i think you're selling these vampires short as villains. and this iteration of dracula is much more interesting than the one that's been a part of x-men for the past couple of years

[number8]

8 - if you could choose one, which would be your favorite arc so far with Brubaker's "Criminal" titles? And why?

Maybe "Bad Night," but the latest one ("Last of the Innocent") is simply amazing, and lots of people would say it's the best.

[ledfloyd]

Maybe "Bad Night," but the latest one ("Last of the Innocent") is simply amazing, and lots of people would say it's the best.
those are certainly the two best. i give the edge to last of the innocent though.

[megladon8]

You know what else is an awesome work by Brubaker? "Incognito".

Man, I dug the heck outta that one.

[Acapelli]

meg, have you read sleeper? it's very similar to incognito, and in my eyes, better

[ledfloyd]

yeah, i prefer sleeper to incognito as well.

i read azzarello's Joker this weekend. that, tony daniel, is how you do a 'dark and gritty' joker story. i also started the first trade of Knightfall but i don't think i'm going to keep up with it, it feels much more like engelhart's stories from the 70s than the more modern take on the character miller, moore, morrison and milligan pioneered in the late 80s. it's just not my thing.

[Sven]

You really think Milligan's Bat books are all that pioneering? I've only ever really heard them mentioned in the context of the Dark City storyline, and that's because of Morrison.

Don't get me wrong: love the man and love his run. The Identity Crisis issue may be my favorite single issue of anything. But I don't think many took cues from it, the way they did from even Dixon and Moench.

[Sven]

http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/iss/600w/87/100871/8401561_1.jpg

Buy it. Read it. Love it.

[Winston*]

Super cool cover.

[Sven]

Three issues prior is one of my very favorite covers:


http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/iss/600w/87/100871/8004101_1.jpg

[ledfloyd]

maybe pioneer was the wrong word. but his approach is much more modern than dixon and moench's. and dark knight, dark city is one of my favorite batstories. i don't think i've read identity crisis. i will look for it next time i'm at the comic shop.

[Sven]

and dark knight, dark city is one of my favorite batstories.

I've always found Milligan's Batman to be too stupid, making bumbles left and right all the time. But then maybe I'm too used to Morrison's super genius Batman. If you'll recall, Dark Knight, Dark City was the story that made me quit Milligan "for good". I haven't revisited it since my conversion.

[ledfloyd]

perhaps i need to reread it, i thought it was one of the better riddler stories i've read, and the barbatos mythology is fun.

[megladon8]

I now only require volume 4 of Jack Kirby's "Fourth World" to have the whole collection.

If anyone happens across a good condition/new copy, please let me know. :)

[Grouchy]

Which one is the identity crisis issue? Perhaps I read it.

[Sven]

Which one is the identity crisis issue? Perhaps I read it.

To clarify, it's an issue titled "Identity Crisis," and does not relate to the Identity Crisis event. It came out in the summer of '91. Bruce Wayne emerges from the ether to a Gotham in which, much to his great confusion, he has never been Batman.

[ledfloyd]

are streets of gotham or gotham city sirens any good?

[Grouchy]

To clarify, it's an issue titled "Identity Crisis," and does not relate to the Identity Crisis event. It came out in the summer of '91. Bruce Wayne emerges from the ether to a Gotham in which, much to his great confusion, he has never been Batman.
No, no, I knew what you meant. I haven't read it then. Like the Batman: TAS episode.

"Dark Knight, Dark City" is a great storyline.

[EyesWideOpen]

are streets of gotham or gotham city sirens any good?

There are a few good stories within but they are pretty far down the line as far as Bat books go.

[megladon8]

These two covers are issues I still have from when I was a kid, and remain two of the most memorable covers (for me) from "Detective Comics"...


http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2985/6381.jpg

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/9513/detectivecomics655.jpg

[ledfloyd]

There are a few good stories within but they are pretty far down the line as far as Bat books go.
that's a shame, i've been going through some recent batman stuff i've missed lately and was really enjoying dini's run on detective. i was hoping one or the other would function as a continuation of it.

[EyesWideOpen]

that's a shame, i've been going through some recent batman stuff i've missed lately and was really enjoying dini's run on detective. i was hoping one or the other would function as a continuation of it.

He was working on the Ultimate Spider-Man animated series pretty much the whole time he was doing those books so there is loads of fill in writers. Streets of Gotham has places where you'd get part one of a story and then have a fill in guy do two or three issues with a completely unrelated story and then back to the original story. It was a clusterfuck. But Dustin Nguyen's artwork was amazing.

[sevenarts]

those are certainly the two best. i give the edge to last of the innocent though.

I agree on this. This latest Criminal arc is just amazing, I'd go so far as to say it's Brubaker's best work yet. All of Criminal is really good but this is on a whole other level with the way it pulls in the Archie-style comics as part of a consideration of the effects of nostalgia and the way our memories of the past are warped by our desires.

[Sven]

Is it alienating to say that I hated Red Son? The political element doesn't make a lick of sense and Millar's writing is flatheaded. Also, I thought I wanted to see Dave Johnson interiors, but it turns out that his style is definitely better suited to paint and thick ink brushes. Plunkett fares better, though a lot of pages feel rushed. And Batman is too neutered. Pretty disappointing.

So: the more I read Millar, the more I don't like him. BUT I did read the first issue of Old Man Logan and thought it had a lot of promise. Should I read it?

[number8]

There's a Superman elseworlds written by John Cleese (yes, that John Cleese) where Kal-El lands in England. it is superior to Red Son.

[number8]

Anyway, I don't hate Red Son, but it annoys the tits out of me when people continually cite as one of the best Superman books, or suggest that it should be adapted into a movie. That's just fucking dumb.

Also, rumor has it that Grant Morrison came up with the "bottle" twist.

[Sven]

Also, rumor has it that Grant Morrison came up with the "bottle" twist.

I kept hearing that Morrison had something to do with the end "twist" and as I was finishing the book, I was thinking: "Which one?" Because there are a bunch. Ultimately I assumed it was the one dealing with the folding of time, as Jor L launches Kal L back in time to crash in Ukraine.

[Sven]

Finished Jason Aaron's Ghost Rider run. Uneven, though never bad, and definitely stacked to please those with an affinity for the character's legacy, but when it's on, it's some great action comics. Tony Moore's issues are the best, and the miniseries that concludes his run definitely makes it worth the read.

[ledfloyd]

has anyone read holy terror yet? i'm curious, while fully expecting it to be awful.

[Grouchy]

Just read the X-Men stoyline God Loves, Man Kills. Kind of disappointed really. It's a pretty standard story and Brent Anderson's drawings are awful - I would've prefered Neal Adams. It's not until the last two or three pages of epilogue that the characters experience some kind of depth. Claremont has done a lot better in the regular X-Men comic book.

I understand why it made such a huge impact back in the '80s, though.

[Ezee E]

Got the Sandman Volume 1 from the library.

Good lord, it's huge. This is going to take a while.

[megladon8]

Got the Sandman Volume 1 from the library.

Good lord, it's huge. This is going to take a while.


So I'm guessing it's "Absolute Sandman"?

[Ezee E]

So I'm guessing it's "Absolute Sandman"?
Yes.

[Sven]

Didn't realize The Shade had his own 4 part miniseries in '97 as well. Getting!

[megladon8]

Yuck. Jonathan Hickman's "Transhuman" was kind of awful.

A few funny moments in the first half, but reading it to the end proves it to be nothing but half baked and completely disappointing.

By far the weakest thing I've read from Hickman thus far.

[Sven]

I thought it was funny.

[number8]

Woah. Guess who the villains are in the new upcoming Batman cartoon.

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/6601/bewarethebatmanscreenca.jpg

Did not expect that.

[sevenarts]

Hahaha how the hell do you do Professor Pyg justice in a kids' cartoon?

[megladon8]

I'm a tad confused by the timeline of the stories in "Criminal".

Do they occur chronologically? Is "Lawless" after "Coward", "The Dead and the Dying" after "Lawless", and so on?

Or is it scattered?

[number8]

No.

[megladon8]

Ugh...what is with your one word answers?

Can you not actually give me an answer?

[ledfloyd]

timeline doesn't really matter. there are characters who overlap and interconnect but for the most part it's more easter eggy than vital. the third arc kind of elucidates on characters in the first two. and the fifth is kind of a continuation of the second, to some degree. just read them all. it's all great stuff.

[megladon8]

Yes, it is all great stuff.

I was just wondering about recurring characters and that, for example Leo showing up in "Lawless".

[number8]

Sorry. You asked if it's chronological and I said no. I figured that's a clear and direct answer.

[megladon8]

Sorry. You asked if it's chronological and I said no. I figured that's a clear and direct answer.


Well I kind of asked a few questions, so your I didn't know to which one your "no" was directed.

[sevenarts]

The various Criminal stories overlap and interlink but as others have said, the order you read them isn't too important.

Chronologically, Coward is set before Lawless, and The Sinners is a sequel to Lawless. The Dead & The Dying is set in the past with an earlier generation of characters. The connections in the other two stories are even more tangential. Bad Night must happen after Lawless. I don't remember anything in The Last of the Innocent that suggests it has to be set at any particular time in relation to the other arcs.

It's an amazing series.

[megladon8]

I wasn't worried about what order to read them in.

I was just confused because...

...Leo (at least seemed to have) died at the end of "Coward". Yet he's back in "Lawless".


But yeah, I can't argue with the reviewers who have said "best crime comic ever published".

[sevenarts]

It's actually made very clear in the text of Coward that

Leo does not die.

[megladon8]

You mean...

"Just my luck"?


I didn't think that was "very clear".

More ambiguous.

[number8]

I don't remember anything in The Last of the Innocent that suggests it has to be set at any particular time in relation to the other arcs.

It's set in the 80's and has Sebastian Hyde in it, so it pretty obviously takes place before the others.

[number8]

Anyone else got Severed #3? So creepy.

[Acapelli]

didn't like #1 all that much so i dropped it

[sevenarts]

Anyone else got Severed #3? So creepy.

Yeah I'm really digging this series so far. It's very slow-moving and the pacing is perfect to build this sense of dread and creepiness.

[megladon8]

Yeah, "Severed" is in my "it's fustrating waiting a month to find out what's next" pile :)

[Sven]

I just read Cornell's Batman and Robin story and I'm actually pretty bowled over. Ingenious design and a terrific resolution. If only McDaniel didn't botch it every few pages.

[Acapelli]

mcdaniel probably only had a few weeks to draw it since it was a fill-in before the tomasi/gleason run which was running late

[number8]

What the silly fuck. Good news for comic book stores, I guess.


In what looks like the first shots of a new tablet content war, Barnes & Noble has instructed its stores to stop selling and remove the physical copies of the 100 graphic novels DC Comics plans to sell exclusively through the new Amazon Kindle Fire tablet.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/comics/article/49008-b-n-pulls-100-dc-graphic-novels-from-shelves-over-kindle-fire-deal.html

[Ezee E]

It's not part of the "New 52" but anyone check out "Penguin: Pride and Punishment?" Seems like any ordinary Penguin origin story, but with art that I like. Curious where it goes though. I guess it does make the Penguin into a guy that will fuck up your entire life to prove a point instead of killing you.

[Sven]

Aw, too bad. I'm going to be in NYC right after the con.

[megladon8]

Reading through "Planetary" again for the third time.

This is easily in my top 5 series' of all time.

Really interested in checking out the "Planetary: Batman" trade.

[Sven]

has anyone read holy terror yet? i'm curious, while fully expecting it to be awful.

I read it last night and I think it's far from awful. It's so archetypical that I'm not sure why there is a furor: who isn't against terrorists? It is, through and through, a Frank Miller work, which means that the script is clipped repetition and the art is a virtuosic coordination of brushstrokes and abstracted textures that blend weather, leather, and violence to hypnotic effect. It is not graceful, and the heroic attitude is too macho for my tastes, but it does possess an effectively distilled scenario which, in my mind, 1) deflects accusations of insensitivity and 2) strengthens the emotional core of the book's reason for being. It's not offensive, but is totally frenzied and quite beautiful.

[number8]

I wrote this before I read it. After reading it, my opinion of it hasn't changed much.

http://www.justpressplay.net/articles/8083-frank-miller-goes-irrelevant-with-qholy-terrorq.html

And here's a review that I more or less agreed with:

http://nerdnewsandreviews.com/2011/09/30/review-holy-terror/

[number8]

Interesting. Books-a-Million is joining Barnes & Nobles' DC boycott. What's gonna happen if this catches on with other retailers?

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/book-news/comics/article/49063-bam-joins-b-n-removes-dc-graphic-novels-over-kindle-fire-deal.html

[Sven]

A fine morning of reading news, packing for my trip tomorrow, making grilled vegetable quesadillas for lunch, engaging in comics discussion, and reading the DC stories of Alan Moore...

...now I am sipping on some strong Hawaiian coffee, digesting both the satisfying lunch as well as the cavalcade of strange delights offered by Moore and company. My favorite story was Blackest Night, in which a creature with no concept of color or light becomes a member of the GLC.

In a moment, I will slip out for a leisurely walk in the crisp, lightly breezy autumn air. I think it's sixty. Delightful.

[number8]

Everybody loves Rot Lop Fan.

[number8]

YUUUUCK. Image is resurrecting Liefeld's Extreme Studios and continuing a bunch of their 90's titles 9with original numbering).

But it means they're going to do Alan Moore's remaining Supreme scripts, with Erik Larsen drawing, and then Larsen will continue writing the title once they're done with the Moore scripts. They're also going to do his leftover Youngblood scripts.

Wow, I wonder what he'll think of this.

[number8]

Sigh.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1318612365.jpg

[Ezee E]

Shadowhawk??????

[bac0n]

wow, i was expecting more pouches.

[number8]

You want pouches, you say?


We launched "Bloodstrike" years before Deadpool had his own title, and I believe there is a shared fanbase between the characters. Fans who have fallen away from the moronic depiction of Deadpool that has been presented of late will find Bloodstrike more their liking. This is modern, rogue, mercenary action-adventure. Tons of great concepts, as well. Tim Seeley put his Grant Morrison hat on and has some great big ideas. I'm drawing an issue of the title, I'm so excited by it. Again, easily my favorite of the new Extreme line.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1318612350.jpg

[number8]

Just look at those arms. And his missing leg. And swords that are apparently just hilts.

I don't understand how someone can draw comics professionally for over 20 years and has not improved at all. This man lives in a goddamn time machine.

[Acapelli]

that looks like he took deadpool's head and put it on cable's body

[EyesWideOpen]

Just look at those arms. And his missing leg. And swords that are apparently just hilts.

I don't understand how someone can draw comics professionally for over 20 years and has not improved at all. This man lives in a goddamn time machine.

Yes, yes, yes!

I badmouthed him over at the 11 oclock comics forums and got eaten alive for it. Apparently there are quite a few people who worship at his altar.

[megladon8]

Loving Brubaker's "Sleeper".

Especially love the little crossover with "Planetary" :D

[Acapelli]

i'll read anything brubaker/phillips ever do

so excited for fatale

[number8]

Yeah, trailer looks great, as expected.

[bac0n]

Just look at those arms. And his missing leg. And swords that are apparently just hilts.

I don't understand how someone can draw comics professionally for over 20 years and has not improved at all. This man lives in a goddamn time machine.

I just love how creative he is in his attempts to not have to draw feet.

[ledfloyd]

i read the first arc of punisher max and... it just reminds me why i'm not a fan of ennis. over the top macho bullshit and unimaginative use of profanity that is intended to be amusing but really isn't. it doesn't help that the only female character talks solely about how wet punisher makes her. i understand (hope?) it's intended to be satire but, you can do way better than that.

[Sven]

...but oh, what a haul I did get at Midtown when I was there:

The Reign of the Doomsdays arc on Action (which is hella confusing)
Walt Simonson Thor Vol. 2
Punisher War Journal Vol. 2 (I'm not sold on this run, but it's very strange, no doubt)
Punisher: In the Blood (now a favorite... so good, guys)
Kirby's 70s Captain America Omnibus

I also read on the plane and busride from DC to NYC the Justice book by Krueger, Ross, and Braithwaite, which was good, but I'm convinced that it would've been better without Ross's brushes over Dougie's pencil's (he's one of the best). And I finished the Adventures of Luther Arkwright, which is, hands down, a masterpiece.

[megladon8]

I felt the same way about "Justice", Sven. Good, not great. Could have been much better.

[bac0n]

Picked up the Thanos Imperative TPB and blasted right through it. Great read - I loved the epic-ness of it - and loved how they mixed in some Lovecraftian stuff. Cosmo just shot up into my list of favorite superheroes.

[ledfloyd]

is fourth world a good first kirby book or is there a better place to start?

[Sven]

is fourth world a good first kirby book or is there a better place to start?

For Kirbyness, it doesn't get much purer than that. No primer necessary, just the hope that your mind can hold out. Lest it be blown.

[Sven]

bac0n, have you read any of the other A&L cosmic stuff? Annihilation, Realm of Kings, etc? I feel I need to do more Marvel cosmic surfing, and I've just about exhausted the more mainstream properties.

Speaking of Thanos, I read my first full Jim Starlin book finally. Punisher POV, illustrated by Bernie Wrightson. High quality all around.

[bac0n]

bac0n, have you read any of the other A&L cosmic stuff? Annihilation, Realm of Kings, etc? I feel I need to do more Marvel cosmic surfing, and I've just about exhausted the more mainstream properties..

Nope - this is really my first foray into the cosmic marvel stuff since I was following the Silver Surfer comic where the elders of the universe were plotting to kill Galactus, which was, like over 20 years ago... But I must say, I am intrigued by the Annihilation stuff.

[number8]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ld51soHdaiY/TqgBDu07ybI/AAAAAAAAB_U/sXA6zxylTSY/s1600/watchmen+final.jpg

[number8]

David Slade is making a Criminal movie based on "Coward."

[Sven]

For the last day on which I am allowed to spend more than tweny bucks on comics per week, I'm getting quite the haul:

Captain Swing 4
Aquaman 2
JLD 2
Spaceman 1
Kirby Genesis 4
Butcher Baker 7
Red Wing 4
Daredevil 5
Incredible Hulk 1
Journey Into Mystery 630
Mighty Thor 7
Wolverine & the X-Men 1

As well as:
Fantastic Four TPB 4
SHIELD HC

And I might get All-Star Western and I Vampire as a last second 'why the hell not' pile on.

[number8]

This made me laugh so much. Dammit, not another title I want to get!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/terry3906/scans_daily/jeangreyschoolbrochure.jpg

[Ezee E]

I bet Gambit is an awesome teacher.

[sevenarts]

This made me laugh so much. Dammit, not another title I want to get!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/terry3906/scans_daily/jeangreyschoolbrochure.jpg

This was such a good comic. So fun and funny. Loved the class list too.

[Acapelli]

really wasn't planning on picking up wolverin and the x-men, but i've heard nothing but good things

[Sven]

Yeah, it's fantastic, and has an enticing teaser page for upcoming issues. I'll also probably be sticking with Aaron/Silvestri's Hulk, even if rubble-comics are not my favorite kind.

Also: Spaceman. I like it better than any issue of 100 Bullets. Inimitable presentation. Layers.

Every time I think I'm going to drop this new Daredevil run, I'm totally hooked again. Any other Waid recommendations?

In less awesome news, Mighty Thor 7 is probably the weakest Fraction Thor issue to date, despite even the presence of Ferry. Bummer that he botched it, because the ideas were there.

[Ezee E]

If Marvel improved their online selection, I'd go for some. But it's rather hard to get what I want on there.

[ledfloyd]

Also: Spaceman. I like it better than any issue of 100 Bullets. Inimitable presentation. Layers.
i was planning on waiting for trade but now i'm tempted.

[EyesWideOpen]

Every time I think I'm going to drop this new Daredevil run, I'm totally hooked again. Any other Waid recommendations?



The Dr. Strange mini he did with Emma Rios is great. Potter's Field and Irreedemable I also highly recommend.

[number8]

Also: Spaceman. I like it better than any issue of 100 Bullets. Inimitable presentation. Layers.

Skimmed through this at the shop. So close to picking it up, but I decided that I can wait for the trade since it's a mini.

[number8]

Also, I can't stand Silvestri's art. Aaron and Hulk is a nice combo, but one look at the pages and I was bleeeech no fucking way.

Biggest WTF convo with the shop owner: the only sold out title this week was The Dark Knight #2. You've got to be kidding me.

[Sven]

Risso/Mulvihill's work looks so good on glossier paper (flip through the new HC of 100 Bullets to see what I mean). The pulpy pages that Vertigo likes to use make it more difficult than necessary to differentiate line and darker hues. Camuncoli's work on Hellblazer would also benefit enormously from better paper.

[sevenarts]

In less awesome news, Mighty Thor 7 is probably the weakest Fraction Thor issue to date, despite even the presence of Ferry. Bummer that he botched it, because the ideas were there.

Agreed on this. I didn't think it was bad but the first 6-issue arc was so good all around that this was a definite letdown. On the other hand, Journey Into Mystery seems to have finally hit its stride this week: what a GREAT, funny-as-hell issue that was.

Marvel had a great week in general, between that, Wolverine and the X-Men, Daredevil (why would you ever think about dropping this?) and FF. Venom and Incredible Hulk were also not bad. Over at DC, The Flash, All Star Western and Justice League Dark all continue to be great.

Looking forward to reading Spaceman.

[Sven]

On the other hand, Journey Into Mystery seems to have finally hit its stride this week: what a GREAT, funny-as-hell issue that was.

Have you been reading it long? All of Gillen's stuff has been terrific.


Daredevil (why would you ever think about dropping this?)

I'm not compelled by the stories, first issue aside, or the characters, though I do like Murdock's cheeriness. It's all very straightforward, and I enjoy a good bit of ambitious subterfuge. Still, like I said, every issue wins me over. There is something, after all, to be said for Waid's clarity of direction.

[sevenarts]

Have you been reading it long? All of Gillen's stuff has been terrific.

Yeah, I've been reading it since it split off from the Fraction Thor. I feel like every issue has some good stuff but it was never quite all there until this one. Volstagg is such an awesome character. I want a Fraction- and/or Gillen-written Volstagg series. Heh.


I'm not compelled by the stories, first issue aside, or the characters, though I do like Murdock's cheeriness. It's all very straightforward, and I enjoy a good bit of ambitious subterfuge. Still, like I said, every issue wins me over. There is something, after all, to be said for Waid's clarity of direction.

It's straightforward, narratively, but the art is fantastic and it just has such a fun, energetic tone. I love the rendering of Murdock's senses.

[number8]

http://files.redux.com/images/d64019831b35a898e9d7f1fd0de293 38/raw

[sevenarts]

Man, Grant Morrison would love that. Especially since the main premise of Supergods is that superheroes are in some sense real and can interact, as stories and archetypes, with the real world that created them.

[Sven]

A moving story, and a great moment in the comic, but I wonder how much of an asshole I should feel suspecting that it is made up.

[Kurosawa Fan]

A moving story, and a great moment in the comic, but I wonder how much of an asshole I should feel suspecting that it is made up.

I'd be equally asshole-ish. It was my first thought.

[number8]

A moving story, and a great moment in the comic, but I wonder how much of an asshole I should feel suspecting that it is made up.

This thought always comes up whenever I read any touching anecdote on the internet. It's almost always followed by me realizing that either way it doesn't really change how touching I find the story is so it's really completely up to me whether or not it's true. And I almost always choose true.

[Sven]

The "tl;dr" is a weird inclusion. Why the sarcasm all of a sudden?

[Ezee E]

What is tl;dr?

With that, I feel like it's real, only because I'm curious as to why someone would write such a thing if it hadn't affected them.

[Kurosawa Fan]

What is tl;dr?


Too long; didn't read.

[Sven]

In a fit of "why not?", I reread New X-men. Let's talk.

Verdict: Chris Bachalo's issues stand out as the most conceptually exciting. They read the most like a "Grant Morrison" comic, replete with weird timespace particle physics and a rapidly escalating scale. Quitely gets the love, but his arcs are so very X-menesque, dealing with big plot and Marvel history, while one of the pleasures of the Bachalo arc was in Wolverine's discovery and subsequent non-disclosure of his history. It all amounts to "I'm not going to talk about it because it's too convoluted." Adequately meta, aside from featuring lots of neat sci-fi tricks and great illustration. It's a great setting to showcase Bachalo's intricate style.

Quitely's great with action (despite one of the cooler elements of the book being how coolly everyone acts in moments of chaos), but he drops backgrounds more than the others, which is a big peeve, and there are many transitions in the 'Nuff Said issue that I still don't get. But the opening arc, E is for Extinction, moves at an infectiously exciting clip.

You all know my love for Igor Kordey, and it only deepened on this go-round. His panel-to-page reflection, as always, is fluid and, quite frankly, exemplar. Where someone like Van Sciver spends his time hatching tableaux, Kordey makes motion flow like water. There is a well of satisfaction when, after reading a page, absorbing the entirety of it at once. Only Kordey provides that pleasure. He's also best at anchoring locations. The Shi-ar arc is clearly rushed, but the Fantomex issues are some of the better comics I've read.

The aforementioned Van Sciver renders impressively, and given the thankless task of primarily filler issues, stands out well enough. John Paul Leon's Xorn issue may be the strongest, dramatically, though one wonders why Morrison wrote it at all when he allegedly planned for the Magneto twist all along. Sienkiewicz is an interesting choice to ink his pencils, not in a bad way, though I think the coloring doesn't fit.

Phil Jimenez is the weakest of the bunch, spending what seems to be too much time doing photo-realism and not enough effort to make his expressions pop. At the same time, the finale of Wolverine and Jean heading into the sun is among the strongest sequences in the run, as well as the terrific issue where the X-men visit the decimated Genosha. His detail is appreciated there.

And what does one say about Silvestri in this age? His rubble approach works for apocalyptic visions, and some of his drawings of Beast are, pardon the reference, uncanny. Probably my favorite arc for its ideas, and I'm glad they got someone out of the box for such a wildly variant story.

What struck me this time, though, was how much Morrison omits or lets the reader assume. I know this has become one of his defining characteristics lately, but it seemed sometimes to his detriment. The two part "murder mystery" makes very little sense. And while this is more of an X-Men complaint, the psychic powers of the characters are maddeningly inconsistent.

Anyway, still, good times. Some very exciting reading.

[number8]

Super happy spoilers from today's FEAR ITSELF.

Confirmed that Bucky isn't dead! Steve faked his death so Bucky can go solo as the Winter Soldier fighting old Soviet weapons, which will be told in a new WINTER SOLDIER series by Brubaker and Guice out next year.

ZOMFGYES.

[Sven]

Oh cool. I didn't realize that the Saucer Country short from Strange Tales is going to become a series. Definitely gotta check that out.

[megladon8]

What's going on with Marvel comics? Are some of their titles delayed?

I haven't gotten an issue of "Punisher" in quite a while now. And "Ultimate Comics Spider-Man" seems late, too.

[Sven]

I don't know what quite a while is to you, but Punisher 4 came out Oct 12th. Dunno about SpiderMan.

[megladon8]

I don't know what quite a while is to you, but Punisher 4 came out Oct 12th. Dunno about SpiderMan.


I only have up to issue 2 of "Punisher".

Clearly my local comic store is messing up my pull list again.

[megladon8]

Just wrote an e-mail to the store telling them that this is the second time in two months that they've shafted me on titles I pre-paid for.

Get it sorted out, or I'm going digital.

[Sven]

I only have up to issue 2 of "Punisher".

Clearly my local comic store is messing up my pull list again.

I don't know how they do it at your store, but we have to give all of our orders two months in advance to Diamond. So if someone starts a pull list, they are essentially starting it two months down the road. Anything we put in their box before then is a store copy. Is it possible that this is how they do it and you put the request in less than a couple of months ago?

By the way, the third issue of Punisher was the best comic that week that I read. A mid-flight battle with Vulture... wicked cool.

[number8]

Ultimate Spiderman is on #3. #4 comes out next week. What issue are you on?

[number8]

Also, pre-paid? What? You pay for your comics upfront?

[sevenarts]

By the way, the third issue of Punisher was the best comic that week that I read. A mid-flight battle with Vulture... wicked cool.

Yeah I love this comic. I love that it took until the 4th issue for the main character to actually say more than 1 or 2 words. It's a very unique twist on the Punisher in that it puts the character almost in the background as a Batman-like shadowy legend. The emphasis of the series so far is more on the people whose lives are affected by the Punisher's gory war on crime.

[megladon8]

Yes, the store puts their orders to Diamond in 2 months in advance. So I've paid for everything right through December at this point. And you have to pre-pay for the issues to be put on your pull list that far in advance. They order the number of issues they need.

"Punisher" I pre-paid far before the books came out. Which is why it is particularly bothersome because I got issues 1 and 2 with no problem, but 3 and 4 never arrived.

I called today and he said he doesn't know what happened - maybe my issues were not properly labelled and so were sold on the shelf.

This has happened several times now. First it was issue 1 of "Red Lanterns" getting accidentally put on the shelf, then the same thing happened with issue 1 of "Demon Knights".

Now this with "Punisher" and "Ultimate Spider-Man" - both titles I only have up to issue 2 of, even though I pre-paid for everything.


"Go to another comic store", you say?

There aren't any others unless I want to drive an extra hour (making my commute to and from the comic book store 2 hours each way).

[number8]

is that common for comic stores in Canada? I've never heard of people paying for pull lists in advance.

[megladon8]

is that common for comic stores in Canada? I've never heard of people paying for pull lists in advance.


I've never heard of people not doing so, so I guess the answer is yes.

[sevenarts]

Just got Kevin Huizenga's GANGES #4 today, so excited about this! It's an amazing book that's almost entirely about introspection and thought - the plot of this issue, like the last one, can basically be summed up as "an insomniac guy tries to sleep and can't" but there's so much happening in the way the book deals with the protagonist thinking about time, mortality and memory. No one visualizes abstract concepts in comics better than Huizenga. One of those creators and series that should be WAY better known.

[Sven]

Just got Kevin Huizenga's GANGES #4 today, so excited about this! I

Sounds pretty cool. I'll check it out.

[sevenarts]

Cool, it's a great series. The second issue is probably the highlight - this remarkably poignant story about video games and the dot-com revolution - but the whole series is great and consistently generates a lot to think about from the most dramatically minimal material.

Here's a great abstract spread from #2:

http://www.fantagraphics.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/gange2-sp.jpg

[number8]

Yo, E, good news for you.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-same-day-digital-111103.html

[Ezee E]

Yo, E, good news for you.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/marvel-same-day-digital-111103.html
Nice. Now here's to hoping it's a little more user-friendly by then.

I hate that if you ask for the most recent issues, it happens to send issues from 2005, 1998, etc that were just uploaded to the website

[ledfloyd]

is jack kirby supposed to feel like a guilty pleasure? his art has a kinetic quality to it that makes him a ton of fun to read, but the overabundance of exclamation points and sloppy expository dialogue makes it more than a little hard for me to take seriously. which isn't to say the story isn't engaging, the dialogue is just so over the top. through the first fourth world omnibus at this point. i kind of wish i had decided to do this prior to reading morrison's JLA, because i might have understood what the fuck was going on.

[Sven]

i kind of wish i had decided to do this prior to reading morrison's JLA, because i might have understood what the fuck was going on.

I know, right? Also Final Crisis. Big time.

He's too well-loved to be a guilty pleasure. And I'm not sure what guilty pleasures are supposed to feel like, so I'm not much help there. I love his dialogue because it's so over-the-top. The second omnibus is probably the best one.

[megladon8]

is jack kirby supposed to feel like a guilty pleasure? his art has a kinetic quality to it that makes him a ton of fun to read, but the overabundance of exclamation points and sloppy expository dialogue makes it more than a little hard for me to take seriously. which isn't to say the story isn't engaging, the dialogue is just so over the top. through the first fourth world omnibus at this point. i kind of wish i had decided to do this prior to reading morrison's JLA, because i might have understood what the fuck was going on.


No. Not at all.

[ledfloyd]

No. Not at all.
i just can't get around the fact that if i were reading a modern comic that ended every single sentence with an exclamation point and featured blatant expository dialogue like 'be content with your "mobius chair" which rides the dimension winds of time space!' 'it can defy any barrier--but the one which guards the secret of the source!' i would say it is a poorly written book. yet i'm enjoying this.

[Sven]

i would say it is a poorly written book.

For exposition, your examples are pretty succinct (and don't actually explain anything, rather broadcasting the surreal zest of Kirby's fantastic sci-fi vision). Read anything by acclaimed comics writer Scott Snyder and you will find exposition of a much more circuitous and labored nature.

As for the exclamation points, that was how action comics were written in the day. Stan Lee may be responsible.

At any how, Kirby is definitely lauded for his art, not his dialogue, which a lot of people don't like. But stuff like The Losers and The Demon showcase a bit of subtlety in their scripts, despite being as replete with exclamations.

[ledfloyd]

For exposition, your examples are pretty succinct (and don't actually explain anything, rather broadcasting the surreal zest of Kirby's fantastic sci-fi vision). Read anything by acclaimed comics writer Scott Snyder and you will find exposition of a much more circuitous and labored nature.

As for the exclamation points, that was how action comics were written in the day. Stan Lee may be responsible.

At any how, Kirby is definitely lauded for his art, not his dialogue, which a lot of people don't like. But stuff like The Losers and The Demon showcase a bit of subtlety in their scripts, despite being as replete with exclamations.
i don't think snyder has characters blatantly telling each other things they already know. and certainly not with the frequency kirby does. this isn't to say i'm not enjoying the book, because i am. and i might actually be able to comprehend final crisis after reading it. which should be cool. and yeah, the focus is on the concepts and action and art, even if the dialogue is pretty cringeworthy at times.

[Dukefrukem]

good news? (http://gizmodo.com/5856092/exclusive-all-marvel-digital-comics-will-be-available-same-day-as-print)

[number8]

Already posted here last week.

[Dukefrukem]

Ah sorry. One thing the article doesn't mention, is how the comics are distributed. Is there an app you buy it through like the Kindle app? I'd love to buy some of these on my Kindle Fire.

[Sven]

Help guide me to my next Remender read. I've finished his Punisher stuff, and just read Last Days of American Crime (which is essential).

Maybes:
Fear Agent (I may hold off until it is all collected)
Blackheart Billy
End League
Venom
Gigantic
Doctor Voodoo
Night Mary
Strange Girl
Sea of Red

[sevenarts]

I need to read more Remender too (on that list I've only read Venom, which is pretty good) but is Uncanny X-Force missing from the list because you've already read it? Because if not it's totally awesome.

[Sven]

...is Uncanny X-Force missing from the list because you've already read it?

I read the first trade. I'm reading too many monthlies as it is, so I'm holding off on that one until he's done, or at least until there's a good deal of trades in the bag. Same with Venom, really, though I included that one mostly in case anyone felt like making a strong case for it. I've heard surprisingly little about it, though I imagine it's good.

He's amazing with dialogue. Natural, but flamboyant. Complicated, but never straying from economical. And his predilection for extremes is appreciated.

[number8]

He's taking over Secret Avengers next year when Ellis is done.

[Sven]

He's taking over Secret Avengers next year when Ellis is done.

Excellent news. Related inquiry: should I go back and read the pre-Ellis stuff on that title? I just can't imagine it will hold up, so I'm tempted not to.

[sevenarts]

Excellent news. Related inquiry: should I go back and read the pre-Ellis stuff on that title? I just can't imagine it will hold up, so I'm tempted not to.

Brubaker's run (the first 12 issues I think?) is pretty good but unfortunately ends really abruptly without really resolving his overall story. Apparently he was doing too much other work and had to drop the title. The Nick Spencer Fear Itself tie-ins that followed are really terrible.

Ellis' run is great so far though and I'm really excited for the Remender stuff.

[Acapelli]

it really deserves repeating how awful the nick spencer issues of secret avengers are. they are really bad. easily the worst comics i've read in the past year

i was actually angry i paid money for them

[number8]

I liked them.

[Acapelli]

you've gotta be kidding me

nick spencer is probably the most overrated new talent in the big two. part of me is actually happy that his young doom series was canceled since i'm sure it would've been insufferable. although not entirely a net positive since i'm sure it would have looked gorgeous. love becky cloonan

[dreamdead]

Adrian Tomine's Shortcomings is plenty good. It mines a lot of the self-loathing territory that Clowes and Ware engage in, but the focus on ethnicity enables it a larger canvas with which to draw from. Even though it comes off a teensy bit simple and with little growth for Ben, it's artistry is in solid characterization. And I like the last page, which nicely encapsulates the whole affair.

I'll likely check out his Summer Blonde collection soon...

[number8]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1817933359/occupy-comics-art-stories-inspired-by-occupy-wall

Check this out! Some great names are involved. If you want to support the Occupy movement AND get some potentially great comics at the same time, here's your chance!

[number8]

Aw. Miracleman creator Mick Anglo passed away yesterday.

[Sven]

Eleven credited artists on Incredible Hulk 2:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/iosos/matchcut/untitled-1-1320984340-1320984432.jpg

[number8]

12 if you count the colorist.

[number8]

You think HOLY TERROR was satirical? Frank Miller weighs in on Occupy Wall Street, ladies and gentlemen:


This is no popular uprising. This is garbage. And goodness knows they’re spewing their garbage – both politically and physically – every which way they can find.
*
Wake up, pond scum. America is at war against a ruthless enemy.
*
Maybe, between bouts of self-pity and all the other tasty tidbits of narcissism you’ve been served up in your sheltered, comfy little worlds, you’ve heard terms like al-Qaeda and Islamicism.
*
And this enemy of mine — not of yours, apparently - must be getting a dark chuckle, if not an outright horselaugh - out of your vain, childish, self-destructive spectacle.

http://frankmillerink.com/2011/11/anarchy

[Sven]

You think HOLY TERROR was satirical? Frank Miller weighs in on Occupy Wall Street, ladies and gentlemen:

Nobody who knows how to read would call Holy Terror satire. His rantings here are synchronous with the same mind.

[Mysterious Dude]

I read Akira. It sure is different from the movie, which seems to have the same characters in a completely different story. Some of the same things happen, but they happen for different reasons. There's so much more in the book, and a few things that didn't make sense to me were clarified. I never understood, for example, why Tetsuo turned into a hideous monster, but the book explains it pretty well.

Ultimately, I'm not sure which I prefer. Part of what I really like about the movie is the use of color and the music, which are both absent from the comic. Still, the comic has great art. I'm impressed by the backgrounds in a lot of anime and manga. There's an attention to detail that I think is lacking in most American comics. Little things like cracks in the sidewalk make Neo-Tokyo seem like a real place.

[number8]

I'm impressed by the backgrounds in a lot of anime and manga. There's an attention to detail that I think is lacking in most American comics. Little things like cracks in the sidewalk make Neo-Tokyo seem like a real place.

I don't know what you're using as your basis for comparison, but it's generally quite the opposite of what you said. Katsuhiro Otomo is a glaring exception, but the majority of manga slack on details by utilizing a ton of close-up panels, the stereotypical Japanese action lines and cut-and-paste wallpaper patterns, or mostly just plain old solid colors. Heavily detailed background art in manga is considered rare.

http://s.m.mangafox.com/scans/450/8/01-000.0/naruto_pilot_manga.naruto_pilo t_33.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1917/johan3.jpg

Anime, even more so, because outside of theatrical movies and expensive OVAs, the animation studios often work on a shoestring budget that doesn't allow them to animate anything other than key characters. Anime is famous for the creative ways they get around using the same static image in multiple shots.

[Mysterious Dude]

You're probably right, and I don't have it in me to try to prove you wrong. I've just noticed in the backgrounds I've seen an attention to detail and perspective that just makes them seem real.

http://koiwai.biz/users/images/koiwai/ch01/01_06.jpg

[number8]

There's a pretty good reason for that, actually. Japanese and American comics are both created by teams, but they have a very different division of labor, which I find fairly interesting.

With Japanese comics, typically a single auteur would plot the story with an editor, and then translate that into panels of art themselves, but it's very common for manga artists to have a team of assistants who would do various specific jobs from drawing background buildings, vehicles, animals, or shade the B&W art with screentones, depending on their specialty. Mostly, a lot of artists are hired as assistants just to fill in those deep black backgrounds and rigorously draw the action lines, since the author wouldn't have the time to sweat over that stuff.

So like in that page you posted, I'm fairly certain the truck and the road perspective were drawn by technical drawers who specialize in that stuff.

[number8]

It's interesting to me because with manga, in the instances that you see the background, it's technically proficient, but often clashes with the main artist's art style because of its realism. With American comics, with the artist doing both characters and backgrounds, you get something less proficient, but you see the artist's style transferred into the background.

So with a classical draftsman like Jim Lee, you get these backgrounds that are just as clean as he draws pretty superheroes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/Popninja/hushpage.jpg

And then you get something more whimsical looking with Frank Quitely's bgs.

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2009/05/bat06b.jpg

http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2009/05/bat07b.jpg

Gabriel Ba's impressionistic backgrounds conveys personality.

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6671/noir1c.jpg

My favorite is usually Kevin O'Neill when it comes to populating panels.

http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_9492/subcat_77335/O'Neill%20League3_pg10.jpg

[dreamdead]

Following Shortcomings, I hit up Adrian Tomine's Summer Blonde. I'm finding myself more attuned to his visual style and thematic issues. While there's still a degree of self-loathing and misanthropy that inhabits almost all of the independent scene, I find the stories angling for something profound, and they all know when to end as short stories.

[Sven]

Though I can barely afford it, I bought the War of the Green Lanterns hardcover (my Mahnkephilia trumps). I'm surprised I like this Lantern stuff as much as I do, because it's all kind of simplistic and silly. Hyperhued epic space adventure with villainous grandstanding, noble hearts, tears, tension, and one-liners. Loving Pasarin's textures, and Kirkham is excellent with scope and framing.

[megladon8]

Freaking "Severed". Horrifying. And I want to know what happens next, damnit!

[D_Davis]

The backgrounds in manga were some of the things that drew me to the form. One of the first I ever read (among the first to be translated by Viz back in the day) was Grey, from Yoshihisa Tagami. It's not so much that the background depicts a place, but it suggests motion in a way that I think is lacking in many American comics. The pages shows the action is such a vibrant and kinetic way.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-o3xWRa9-s18/TrEcL0xYxqI/AAAAAAAAAiY/DDQ9m8jwuns/s640/grey.png

http://www.anymanga.com/manga/grey/002/002/005.png



http://www.anymanga.com/manga/grey/002/003/030.png

[megladon8]

I've never been much of a fan of that style of background art. I find that particular "motion blur" technique (often mocked in send ups of anime tropes) to be kind of bland. Yes, it depicts the object(s) in the foreground moving rapidly past the background, but it's just one effect with not much variation available aside from changing the size and direction of the lines.

I much prefer, for a recent example, the work by Williams III in "Batwoman", where Batwoman is shown in a step-by-step action scene, moving across the static background in an acrobatic fight. It shows each one of her poses and movements as she progresses from one side of the page to the other.

Here's a straight-forward, left-to-right example of what I'm speaking of, showing Batwoman and Plebe using their acrobatics to traverse the tops of buildings in issue 1 of "Batwoman"...

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3904/1314cn.jpg

[D_Davis]

I don't really sense any energy or movement in that page/example. The art is great, and I like the layout.

[number8]

Coool. Marcos Martin is leaving Daredevil to do a creator-owned book with BKV.

[Acapelli]

yay, 2 new bkv series!

[number8]

yay, 2 new bkv series!

Of course, since he just got a TV showrunner deal, it'll probably be 4 months between each issue.

[Acapelli]

well when you've got such incredible artists like fiona staples and marcos martin, maybe giving them some extra time between issues would be a good thing

[number8]

BY THE SWEET DICK OF CHRIST:


THE INVISIBLES OMNIBUS HC
Writer: Grant Morrison
Artists: Steve Yeowell, Jilll Thompson, Dennis Cramer, Chris Weston, John Ridgway, Steve Parkhouse, Kim DeMulder, Paul Johnson, Phil Jimenez, John Stokes, Tommy Lee Edwards, Dick Giordano, Mark Buckingham, Mark Pennington, Michael Lark, Keith Aiken, Marc Hempel, Ray Kryssing, Philip Bond, Glyn Dillon, Ivan Reis, Warren Pleece, Sean Phillips, Jay Stephens, Frank Quitely, Grant Morrison, and others
Collects: THE INVISIBLES #1-25, THE INVISIBLES VOL. 2 #1-22, THE INVISIBLES VOL. 3 #12-1 and a story from VERTIGO: WINTER’S EDGE #1
$150.00 US, 1,536 pg

[ledfloyd]

Coool. Marcos Martin is leaving Daredevil to do a creator-owned book with BKV.
whaaaaaaaaat!? :pritch:

[number8]

Fantastic Four #600. Fabulous.

[megladon8]

Fantastic Four #600. Fabulous.


Yeah I'm wishing I had added that to my pull list. I didn't know about it until a few days back.

I'll get the trade for sure. Hickman has made me an FF fan.

[Sven]

Fantastic Four #600. Fabulous.

Yeah, made me resolve to get caught up on FF. Curse Hickman and his thoroughly realized epic vision.

[Sven]

I. Kordey av, bitches.

[Acapelli]

hey sven, joe casey and nathan fox start their run on haunt this week

[Sven]

hey sven, joe casey and nathan fox start their run on haunt this week

I've been torn about whether or not to read the first 18 issues. Capullo and Kirkman can be as obnoxious as they are clearly talented.

Anyway, definitely checking it out, though Casey's own ambivalence toward properties that aren't his (as espoused in his Butcher Baker back material) has tempered my expectations at least a little. Checking out Doc Bizarre too, which is also this week.

[Acapelli]

i think you're overstating kirkman's "talents"

i'm sure it won't be necessary to read the first 18 issues. and the fact that he chose an artist as interesting as nathan fox has me pretty pumped. did you read their previous collaboration, dark reign: zodiac?

[Sven]

i think you're overstating kirkman's "talents"

I haven't read anything of his recently, but a few years ago, I read the first seven volumes or so of Invincible and was surprised at how excellently plotted it is. First ten issues or so of Walking Dead weren't bad either.


i'm sure it won't be necessary to read the first 18 issues. and the fact that he chose an artist as interesting as nathan fox has me pretty pumped. did you read their previous collaboration, dark reign: zodiac?

I still never have. I keep seeing it and passing it by. Dunno why.

[Grouchy]

What are some good sites for reading archive comics online? I've been curious about that for a while.

[megladon8]

Woo-hoo! My comic store finally came through with something!

They had a single copy of "Fantastic Four" #600 left on their shelf. It's now put aside for me.

Rockin'.

[megladon8]

Really, is there anyone who can write or has written "Fantastic Four" as well as Hickman?

He's the writer who single-handedly made me a fan of the title, and I haven't ventured much outside of him for fear that I pretty much started at the top at anything else will be a step down.

[number8]

Alan Moore on Frank Miller:


Well, Frank Miller is someone whose work I’ve barely looked at for the past twenty years. I thought the Sin City stuff was unreconstructed misogyny, 300 appeared to be wildly ahistoric, homophobic and just completely misguided. I think that there has probably been a rather unpleasant sensibility apparent in Frank Miller’s work for quite a long time. Since I don’t have anything to do with the comics industry, I don’t have anything to do with the people in it. I heard about the latest outpourings regarding the Occupy movement. It’s about what I’d expect from him. It’s always seemed to me that the majority of the comics field, if you had to place them politically, you’d have to say centre-right. That would be as far towards the liberal end of the spectrum as they would go. I’ve never been in any way, I don’t even know if I’m centre-left. I’ve been outspoken about that since the beginning of my career. So yes I think it would be fair to say that me and Frank Miller have diametrically opposing views upon all sorts of things, but certainly upon the Occupy movement.

As far as I can see, the Occupy movement is just ordinary people reclaiming rights which should always have been theirs. I can’t think of any reason why as a population we should be expected to stand by and see a gross reduction in the living standards of ourselves and our kids, possibly for generations, when the people who have got us into this have been rewarded for it; they’ve certainly not been punished in any way because they’re too big to fail. I think that the Occupy movement is, in one sense, the public saying that they should be the ones to decide who’s too big to fail. It’s a completely justified howl of moral outrage and it seems to be handled in a very intelligent, non-violent way, which is probably another reason why Frank Miller would be less than pleased with it. I’m sure if it had been a bunch of young, sociopathic vigilantes with Batman make-up on their faces, he’d be more in favour of it. We would definitely have to agree to differ on that one.

[Sven]

Combined with a cancelled Morrissey show and discovering a Bakshi-hosted screening of American Pop thirty minutes too late, I also missed this:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=35746

I was just there!

[Sven]

Guys, I got this brand new copy of Gillen's Thor run, but it's on that new super glossy paper that seriously distracts me. Amazon will sell it for around $21 before tax and shipping. If you're interested, I'll sell you my copy for $25, which includes shipping. I read the first two issues and it was seriously awesome. Doom Asgardotrons.

[Grouchy]

Really, is there anyone who can write or has written "Fantastic Four" as well as Hickman?

He's the writer who single-handedly made me a fan of the title, and I haven't ventured much outside of him for fear that I pretty much started at the top at anything else will be a step down.
This means you've never read the early Lee/Kirby years, then?

Also, doesn't anyone have ANY answer to my question?

[Sven]

Also, doesn't anyone have ANY answer to my question?

I wrote something saying that I wish I had links for you, but that I don't like reading comics on my computer. I figured it was unhelpful, so I didn't post it.

[Sven]

Fraction + Fox + Raid on Osama bunker + GQ magazine = http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/201112/osama-bin-laden-death-comic

[number8]

Aside from the fact that that version of the story has been disputed to death, this doesn't seem to add anything whatsoever to the discussion, and probably would have worked better if Fraction kept it silent.

[Sven]

Aside from the fact that that version of the story has been disputed to death, this doesn't seem to add anything whatsoever to the discussion, and probably would have worked better if Fraction kept it silent.

Sadly, I agree. Even Fox's illustrations are a bit limp given his work.

[Sven]

Are there any illustrators that you will get issues or books from, despite the writer?

For me, Kevins O'Neill and Maguire have recently made the list.

[ledfloyd]

williams is the only one i can think of off-hand. perhaps darwyn cooke as well.

[number8]

Frank Quitely, definitely. Though he's high profile enough that he only teams with good writers, quite frankly.

[Acapelli]

mike allred
jh williams iii

[sevenarts]

Also, doesn't anyone have ANY answer to my question?

This is where I go to download each week's newest issues:

http://komiqueros.com/index.php?board=78.0

There are threads for each comic release day, and over the course of the day they fill up with tons of links. Lots of clutter to browse through but it's a good place to get everything.

When I want to download back issues or a whole run of a series I just go to a torrent site, like Demonoid.

[Grouchy]

Fantastic. Thank you.

[number8]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1817933359/occupy-comics-art-stories-inspired-by-occupy-wall

I want to post the Kickstarter for Occupy Comics once again because it ends in less than 48 hours. They've already reached double their goal, but please help out because you'll get some cool shit!

The money will pay the page rates of the creators involved, but they've all pledged to donate 100% of their earnings to Occupy protesters.

The people contributing to the comic are:


Alan Moore (V For Vendetta, Watchmen, Batman: The Killing Joke, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, From Hell)

Mike Allred (Madman)
Shannon Wheeler (Too Much Coffee Man)
Eric Drooker (Flood!)
Ryan Ottley (Invincible)
Dean Haspiel (American Splendor)
painter Guy Denning
David Lloyd (V For Vendetta, designer of the now iconic Guy Fawkes mask)

Dan Goldman (Shooting War, 08: A Graphic Diary of the Campaign Trail)
Amanda Palmer (The Dresden Dolls)
Darick Robertson (Transmetropolitan, The Boys)

Mike Cavallaro (Parade (with fireworks), Life & Times of Savior 28)
Vito Delsante (Superman, FCHS)
Troy Dye (Shrek, Puss in Boots, The Goblin Chronicles)
Jenny "Devildoll" Gonzalez-Blitz (Coffin Factory art collective)
Joe Harris (Ghost Projekt, Spontaneous)
Tom Kelesides (Shrek, Puss in Boots, The Goblin Chronicles)
Jonathan Swifty Lang (Feeding Ground)
Mark Sable (Two Face: Year One, Rift Raiders, Unthinkable)
Salgood Sam (Dream Life, RevolveR One, Revolution on the Planet of the Apes)
Anna Wieszczyk (Godkiller, Lucid)

Charlie Adlard (The Walking Dead)
Marc Andreyko (Manhunter)
Susie Cagle (Notes on Conflict, arrested at Occupy Oakland)
Kevin Colden (I Rule the Night, Grimm's Fairy Tales)
Molly Crabapple (Dr. Sketchy's)
Tyler Crook (Petrograd, B.P.R.D.)
J.M. DeMatteis (Justice League, Spider-Man, Imaginalis)
Joshua Dysart (Swamp Thing, The Unknown Soldier)
Zoetica Ebb (Biorequiem)
Joshua Hale Fialkov (I Vampire, Tumor)
Brea Grant (We Will Bury You, Suicide Girls)
Zane Grant (We Will Bury You, Suicide Girls)
Joe Keatinge (Hell Yeah, Glory, Brutal)
Ales Kot (upcoming projects w/ Image Comics & DC Ent)
George Krstic (Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Megas XLR)
Joseph Michael Linsner (Dawn)
Patrick Meaney (Grant Morrison: Talking With Gods)
Mark L. Miller (Luna, Nanny & Hank)
Caleb Monroe (Batman: Fearless, Hunter's Fortune)
B. Clay Moore (Hawaiian Dick, Superman Confidential)
Jerem Morrow (Drive-In Horrorshow, Kingdom Suicide)
Amancay Nahuelpan-Bustamante (Hijos de P)
Steve Niles (30 Days of Night, Batman: Gotham County Line)
Laurie Penny (Penny Red)
Matt Pizzolo (Godkiller)
Steve Rolston (Ghost Projekt, Queen & Country)
Riley Rossmo (Proof, Cowboy Ninja Viking)
Douglas Rushkoff (Testament, media theorist)
Tim Seeley (Hack/Slash, Witchblade)
Simon Spurrier (2000 AD, X-Men: Curse of the Mutants)
Ben Templesmith (30 Days of Night, Fell)
Ronald Wimberly (MF GRIMM: Sentences)

They already said that they're only printing the anthology book for backers.

[megladon8]

I could only afford to pledge $50.

[dreamdead]

I am not one to often use invectives on this site. However, what the motherfuck (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/dec/07/watchmen-2-prequel-rumours)? If DC does this I'll lose respect from them as a corporation, since I'd been ambivalent to Moore's constant critiques of them recently.

[sevenarts]

Anybody going to do a best comics of the year list? I made a quick one, so I'm sure I left some stuff out, but here goes:

1. Love & Rockets: New Stories #4 (Jaime & Gilbert Hernandez)
2. Big Questions (Anders Nilsen)
3. Animal Man (Jeff Lemire & Travel Foreman)
4. Ganges #4 (Kevin Huizenga)
5. Garden (Yuichi Yokohama)
6. Criminal: The Last of the Innocent (Ed Brubaker & Sean Phillips)
7. The Punisher (Greg Rucka & Marco Checchetto)
8. Congress of the Animals (Jim Woodring)
9. Batwoman (JH Williams III)
10. Rachel Rising (Terry Moore)
11. Wolverine and the X-Men (Jason Aaron & Chris Bachalo)
12. Uncanny X-Force (Rick Remender & Jerome Opena)
13. Casanova: Avaritia (Matt Fraction & Gabriel Ba)
14. Journey Into Mystery #630 (Kieron Gillen & Richard Elson)
15. Stigmata (Lorenzo Mattotti & Claudio Piersanti)
16. FF (Jonathan Hickman & various)
17. Wonder Woman (Brian Azzarello & Cliff Chiang)

[Sven]

I'd need some kind of master list to work from. I'll do my three favorite current titles:

Vengeance
Ellis's Secret Avengers
Red Lanterns

[ledfloyd]

hmm, this is completely off the top of my head.

1. Echo
2. The Death-Ray (if it counts)
3. Criminal: Last of the Innocent
4. Paying For It
5. Habibi
6. Batwoman
7. Optic Nerve
8. Swamp Thing
9. The Walking Dead
10. Detective Comics: The Black Mirror

there's a lot i haven't read. like big questions especially, celluloid, the new jason and seth books, also the new woodring book, actually everything on your list that isn't on mine with the exception of wonder woman and animal man. and there are a lot of series like scalped, rachel rising, rasl, dmz, northlanders, american vampire, sweet tooth, etc that i haven't been keeping up with week to week. the top six are all pretty stellar though and i think would make any list.

[sevenarts]

Yeah this just kind of demonstrates that I need a master list to work from too. I forgot Paying For It somehow, that should definitely be on my list. And was Echo really 2011? Or I guess just the last few issues of it? Didn't realize that Snyder's Detective Comics was 2011 either, I loved that arc.

I didn't like Optic Nerve at all, Tomine just does nothing for me.

The Death Ray is amazing in any year, one of Clowes' very best works. It'd definitely make a reissue list if I made one. I have Habibi and Celluloid but haven't read either, yet, though they both certainly LOOK gorgeous.

And Sven, Ellis' Secret Avengers is really good, I love that series too.

[ledfloyd]

the last few issues and collected edition of echo are 2011, so i counted it. and snyder's run on 'tec ran right up to the reboot.

[EyesWideOpen]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/10/fanboy-rampage-jms-vs-steve-wacker/

Mark Waid's closing line is so good!

[dreamdead]

Finished 100 Bullets Vol. 8 (The Hard Way)... Gabe's ending in this collection was brutal. This one hurt far more than many of the other reversal of fortunes. Man. :sad:

[number8]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/12/10/fanboy-rampage-jms-vs-steve-wacker/

Mark Waid's closing line is so good!

I read that earlier. Waid's takedown is spectacular.

[Sven]

Finished 100 Bullets Vol. 8 (The Hard Way)... Gabe's ending in this collection was brutal. This one hurt far more than many of the other reversal of fortunes. Man. :sad:

Brutal. A series highlight, for sure.

[Sven]

Joe Casey's Earth's Mightiest Heroes miniserieses are, unfortunately, not very good. The first one's better... Rosado is no Kolins, after all. Hollowly expository, lotsa standing around the Avengers Mansion, discussing what to do. So boring.

However, Tom Peyer's four issue Marvel Knights Punisher story, about the taxi wars, was a nice surprise. Peyer is tops, I've decided.

Oh, and I finished Chronicles of Wormwood. Didn't like Last Enemy, but Last Battle is a funny, intelligent capstone.

[megladon8]

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/1/firstplaceo.jpg



Just sayin'

[number8]

Very cool. Found in the Carl Banks' estate's collection: a greeting card from Osamu Tezuka.

http://cdn.comicartfans.com/Images/Category_10329/subcat_104718/osamu%20tezuka.jpg

[Sven]

Unless someone makes a compelling case to read the proper book, I'm going to read this Lapham/Huddleston adaptation of The Strain instead. The first issue is quality.

I've been digging all over Lapham lately. I'm just about ready to call him one of the greats.

[Sven]

Very cool. Found in the Carl Banks' estate's collection: a greeting card from Osamu Tezuka.]

So badass, by the way.