The Comic Book Discussion Thread

[megladon8]

Cool, thanks for the info!

[Sven]

Although I have a lot of new reading material, I started re-reading The Filth on a whim and am doubly encouraged at my latest hobby. Knowing now how to read Morrison (well, more or less, anyway, dude's still crazy), I can see now the wealth of reward that visiting his works multiple times offers. However, I've come across an unexpected problem: instead of being able to safely process it as "whacked out," it is now making far too much sense. And that's a little worrisome. :lol:

[Sven]

haven't really heard any good things about moore's wildcats

Two chapters in, it is quite nice, actually. Hopefully it retains its quality.


or skrull kill krew

Yeah, it wasn't great. I wasn't sold on Yeowell's artwork this time around, though his work on Sebastian O is among my favorite artist collaborations with Morrison. His work here frequently looks too roomy and unbalanced. And the narrative stop-lurch-pivots here and there. It was pretty funny, though, and does some fun things.

[Sven]

Read all of Major Bummer finally (comic order arrived today). Among the best I've read. Pains me to see it end. Reading Tomasi's commentary in issue 14's letter column describing how much more they had planned for the series hurt.

Sorry that I have been dominating this thread lately. The scope of my insights hardly warrant it. :lol:

[megladon8]

Read all of Major Bummer finally (comic order arrived today). Among the best I've read. Pains me to see it end. Reading Tomasi's commentary in issue 14's letter column describing how much more they had planned for the series hurt.

Sorry that I have been dominating this thread lately. The scope of my insights hardly warrant it. :lol:


It's been awesome getting some new life into this thread. I've enjoyed reading all your comic adventures :)

Have you read "Pluto" yet?

[Sven]

Have you read "Pluto" yet?

I got to vol. 6 then stopped. Same thing happened with Monster. Got about 2/3rds of the way through, then just never thought to pick up another volume. Strong starts on both--I don't know why my interest waned.

[megladon8]

I got to vol. 6 then stopped. Same thing happened with Monster. Got about 2/3rds of the way through, then just never thought to pick up another volume. Strong starts on both--I don't know why my interest waned.


I haven't read "Monster", but you should definitely get your bum in gear and finish "Pluto". Masterful stuff.

Check out my favorite comics thread (http://www.match-cut.org/showthread.php?t=1427) for more recommendations :)

[dreamdead]

What do we make of the Eisner award winners, folks? I'm elated to see Williams artwork recognized, but bummed that Unwritten got shut out of its nominations. Is Chew that good or interesting? Other recommendations that are worthy?

[number8]

Chew's premise is pretty great.

[EyesWideOpen]

I've read through the first ten issues of Chew and it's good but not Eisner quality. I wouldn't even put it in my top 50 comics series currently coming out.

Brubaker is my favorite writer ever but this was by far his most lackluster year in a while and him getting best writer and best single issue is pretty crazy. Geoff Johns deserved it this year for sure.

Otherwise I think they did good. Asterios Polyp, Scott Pilgrim, Marvel's Wizard of Oz, Beasts of Burden, and The Hunter are all some of the best stuff I read last year so I'm glad to see them get recognized. I wish Urasawa could have won some awards but he lost to Walking Dead for best series and David Mazzucchelli for best writer/artist so at least he lost to other fantastic books/creators.

[Acapelli]

that issue with gene colan was pretty fantastic though

[bac0n]

I still dream of owning a comic shop bar/lounge like The Isotope (http://isotopecomics.com/). By far the best comic shop I've ever had the pleasure of frequenting. If any of you ever visit SF, please give them your business.

You'll be happy to know I checked this place out when I rolled through SF on vacation the week before last (right after stuffing down way too much food at Stacks).

VERY cool place, VERY friendly staff. Thumbs up from me.

[number8]

Awesome! I take it you liked Stacks too.

[bac0n]

Awesome! I take it you liked Stacks too.

Yeah, very classy joint, that Stacks. They had a pretty killer huevos rancheros.

In fact, that entire area is pretty awesome. And when we left, our GPS led us up and down some pretty steep hills into the really high-buck part of town and finally to the Golden Gate bridge. It was a great drive.

Thanks again for the recommendations.

[number8]

Bought Neonomicon #1 at SDCC and got Jacen Burrows to sign it. Pretty great stuff, I must say. Chilling end.

I also got Burrows to sign Chronicles of Wormwood.

[bac0n]

Bought Neonomicon #1 at SDCC and got Jacen Burrows to sign it. Pretty great stuff, I must say. Chilling end.

I also got Burrows to sign Chronicles of Wormwood.

Yeah! Surprised as hell it was out so early. Wasn't expecting it to be out for several months. I like Burrows' drawing style. Very crisp.

[Acapelli]

have you guys read the courtyard?

story is way more effective if you've read it

[EyesWideOpen]

Anybody who hasn't read any of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing needs to get on it immediately. I just finished up the third hardcover and this is some mindblowing shit.

[megladon8]

Anybody who hasn't read any of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing needs to get on it immediately. I just finished up the third hardcover and this is some mindblowing shit.


Yeah, it's his best work.

[megladon8]

Well, IMDb's page for the upcoming DTV movie Batman: Under the Red Hood is full of fail.

If you haven't read the storyline it's based on, and you're at all interested in it or in seeing the film, don't look at the IMDb page.

[Acapelli]

i don't get it. is it that jason todd is red hood?

[megladon8]

i don't get it. is it that jason todd is red hood?


Yes.

Which is quite a spoiler, I thought.

[number8]

Not in the movie.

[number8]

Why does Kevin Smith keep trying to find new reasons for me to despise him?

[Sven]

Why does Kevin Smith keep trying to find new reasons for me to despise him?

What has he done now? I read his Daredevil thing and found it entirely unsatisfying and forgettable.

[number8]

Batman: Widening Gyre has been absolutely terrible, but in the latest issue, he retconned a badass moment from Year One (where Batman blew up a wall and threatened Gotham's wealthiest that the feast is over) into Batman admitting to a new vigilante (before revealing his identity cause they're so best buddies now, WTF?) that the explosion on the wall was actually so intense that Batman pissed his pants.

Batman pissed his pants.

[number8]

Found a scan:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/07/wg07.jpg

[bac0n]

I'm gonna just pretend I never saw that. Kinda like Highlander 2.

[Acapelli]

god, fuck kevin smith

got some stuff from my comic shop. finally have the full first arc of criminal, all ten issues of the order, wildcats 3.0 #1-12 and brendan mccarthy's solo

[Sven]

I'm tempted to pick up the newly released hardcovers of Blackest Night, but I made a vow. Stupid vow. Plus, I don't know if they're any good, but I love me some Doug Mahnke (to the point where I don't hesitate to use the word "best").

Are they any good?

[number8]

I tend to avoid crossovers these days. No idea.

[Acapelli]

i really didn't like blackest night all that much, but it seems like i'm in the minority

[number8]

What I've read of it just from the press coverage makes it seem like an endless repetition of "dead loved one comes back as evil lantern, hero shocked, hero is killed, hero brought back as evil lantern, other heroes are shocked, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen kick some ass, things go back to normal." Is this accurate?

[bac0n]

What I've read of it just from the press coverage makes it seem like an endless repetition of "dead loved one comes back as evil lantern, hero shocked, hero is killed, hero brought back as evil lantern, other heroes are shocked, Hal Jordan and Barry Allen kick some ass, things go back to normal." Is this accurate?

Sorta. Jordan was definitely the focal point towards the beginning, but Sinestro took center stage toward the end, which I loved. In the middle, there is a lot of plot dedicated to uniting the various Corps towards the common threat.

And yeah, there was lots of heroes fighting undead versions of fallen heroes stuff, lots.

My favorite element of the whole deal, tho, was the Blackest Night Flash spinoff. That was awesome.

[EyesWideOpen]

The whole Blackest Night storyline was very enjoyable but went on for far too long. It's definitely not required reading especially if you weren't already reading/or were interested in the Green Lantern series.

[Acapelli]

it actually killed my interest in green lantern. i wish it was more like sinestro corps war and not a linewide crossover

[Sven]

Well, it is nice to hear things that temper the urge, though you know how when it comes to specific talents, one tends to be more forgiving and the desire to acquire hangs around anyway. Really I should just go reread Superman Beyond to scratch that Mahnke itch. It was totally the best part of Final Crisis.

[EyesWideOpen]

Well, it is nice to hear things that temper the urge, though you know how when it comes to specific talents, one tends to be more forgiving and the desire to acquire hangs around anyway. Really I should just go reread Superman Beyond to scratch that Mahnke itch. It was totally the best part of Final Crisis.

Batman: The Man Who Laughs is the best book Mahnke has been apart of have you read that?

[Sven]

Batman: The Man Who Laughs is the best book Mahnke has been apart of have you read that?

I haven't. And in all honesty, despite the raves he gets from everywhere seemingly, I've never read any Brubaker at all. I'll look into this title, though I'm skeptical that it will best Superman Beyond, any of The Mask, Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein, or Major Bummer. Still, I'm willing to be surprised and completely open to new comics at this point. I am very excited.

[Grouchy]

The Man Who Laughs is a solid retcon of the first Joker story, certainly much better than the one Denny O'Neill wrote a few years back, but I wonder why both writers (O'Neill and Brubacker) felt the urge to contradict Killing Joke by making Batman find out that Red Hood became the Joker.

It seems to me that's a silly thing to do since Batman wondering about the Joker's origins is part of the villain's appeal.

[bac0n]

Ya know, if they ever came out with a Saint Walker series, I'd totally be all over that shit.

[Sven]

Alan Moore's WildC.A.T.S. was pretty great. Starts strong. Ends strong. There's a bit in the middle that lasts about three chapters where there's big space battle stuff and characters are flying everywhere and things are happening for who-knows-why and I have no idea what was happening. I think my unfamiliarity with the universe is what hindered my comprehension.

Still, very cool. The art is deliciously early 90s. Relief lines, huge muscles, wavy hair. Love it. And as always, Moore's prose is admirably expressive, even when mostly expository.

[Sven]

Oh, and I ended up, to my surprise, loving Miller's Ronin. I think the set-up is weak. A little blunt. But the last act is incredible. The colors are genius.

[megladon8]

Oh, and I ended up, to my surprise, loving Miller's Ronin. I think the set-up is weak. A little blunt. But the last act is incredible. The colors are genius.


YES!

IMO one of his best works. Better than "The Dark Knight Returns", for my money.

[dreamdead]

Alan Moore's WildC.A.T.S. was pretty great. Starts strong. Ends strong. There's a bit in the middle that lasts about three chapters where there's big space battle stuff and characters are flying everywhere and things are happening for who-knows-why and I have no idea what was happening. I think my unfamiliarity with the universe is what hindered my comprehension.


Yeah, his arc gets a worse rap than it needs to. I love the final scene, and though I don't remember much of the intricacies of the narrative, he nicely complicates a narrative not known for depth. Naturally his additions to the team have the most depth, not Lee's originals. And strangely, T. Charest's (?) artwork is much more expressive and suited to Moore's style than Lee's art itself.

[Sven]

Have you ever read Morrison's first issue of his reboot attempt? It is a great opening. Too bad it will likely never happen. Also, his WildC.A.T.S/JLA crossover issue is just as brilliant as his best work, and I say this having read nearly everything he's written post-1988.

Currently reading both Hellboy and Swamp Thing simultaneously. It's amazing, even though I love Hellboy, how much I prefer Swamp Thing. It is likely in the running for my favorite series.

[number8]

I love this Grant Morrison interview. He talks about how he sees Bruce Wayne and why he doesn't want him to be just an angry dark vigilante.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/08/grant-morrison-.html


...there was a tendency to push the character into a very dark place where I think he didn’t entirely belong. There’s a lot more to a man like that, if you want to try to take it seriously and imagine what he would be like. There was almost a blue-collar Batman that was being presented. This guy who is very singular and thuggish in his motivations and I thought we had to kind of bring back an aristocratic seeker, the guy who has traveled the world and seen and done everything. That has a lot more story potential.

[number8]

It reminds me of that old interview where Morrison said that most people got it reversed, that Batman is the childish fantasy and Superman is the more adult wish fulfillment, simply because Batman is a rich James Bond with a cool costume, while Superman is a thankless working stiff who has to put up with a sassy wife, and the fantasy of tearing off your workshirt to fly the world and be appreciated is something adults, not boys, would dream about.

[Sven]

Cool stuff. I was just thinking yesterday that Morrison's treatment of Batman may well be my very favorite thing ever done to a fictional character.

[number8]

I think his Superman is better, but he definitely knows how to handle Gotham really well.

[D_Davis]

GM's Doom Patrol is one of my favorites.

[D_Davis]

One of the best comic book covers of all time:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0f/Doom_patrol50.jpg

[Sven]

I think his Superman is better, but he definitely knows how to handle Gotham really well.

Tony Daniel's art also informs my opinion quite a bit, admittedly. I think RIP is up there, art-wise, with the best looking comics I've seen. So atmospheric. Whoever colored that series (*leaves to check, colorists are "Guy Major and Alex Sinclair") is a genius. Also, the Zur-En-Arrh angle totally resonates with me.

I did recently tackle a few chapters of All Star Superman again and it was even better reading it again. I think a whole re-read would do it well, as the first time, a lot of the more universe-heavy stuff (esp. the Bizarros) kind of flew over my head.

[Sven]

Any of those Bisley covers is in the running for "best".

http://simonbisleygallery.com/art/doom_patrol__35_00.jpg

I like this one because it has a bushy Flex Mentallo:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Simon_bisley_doom_patrol_cover .jpg

[number8]

Hey, it's Alan Moore!

[Acapelli]

ew you like tony daniels sven?

i hate all those jim lee wannabes

[Sven]

ew you like tony daniels sven?

RIP has practically physical atmosphere about it. The visual pacing, the action layouts, and the colors are all immaculate. I have only read RIP and his other Morrison Batman stuff, but I can't find anything to dislike about it other than maybe the overdramatic cape stuff.

[Acapelli]

he's perfectly acceptable, but it's really hard to distinguish between bruce, dick, tim and sometimes even damian, which is ridiculous

plus i'm just not a fan of his style of art. he's better than philip tan, but i'd pretty much prefer it if he worked with any other artist he's used so far on his batman (besides the aformentioned philip tan and the absolutely dreadful georges jeanty who did the art for the most recent issue of the return of bruce wayne)

[Acapelli]

i'm actually really glad that yanick paquette is going to be the ongoing artist for the next part of morrison's ongoing batman saga, "batman inc."

[number8]

Yeah, I pretty much dislike the 90's Image style. Todd MacFarlane, Tony Daniels, J. Scott Campbell, Michael Turner, Brandon Choi, Eric Larsen, even Jim Lee. None of them are terrible artists. I just find their art incredibly boring.

[megladon8]

I thought Todd MacFarlane had some incredible talent in his beginning years. His work was very unique. But he quickly attained a cookie-cutter style which can be seen in Michael Turner, Jim Lee...well...pretty much everyone in 8's above list.

Jim Lee is one of the worst offenders. Again, echoing 8's statement, it's not that he's a bad artist - he's obviously very talented and can (on a technical level at least) draw better than I ever will. But his work is boring, and frequently characters look exactly the same when not in costume.

[number8]

The only one I can tolerate is J. Scott Campbell, because he draws great exaggerated facial expressions. He should really work on cartoons.

[bac0n]

I think the 90s image style is what turned me off the most about the Age of Apocalypse TPB I picked up.

[Sven]

So am I supposed to think that Batman RIP looks like a 90s comic? Because I don't really get that vibe. Especially not after just having read Moore's WildC.A.T.S., which exemplifies the style that is being spoke of.

[number8]

Well, he's no goddamn Liefeld. No one's that terrible.

I think the coloring on RIP helped Daniel' art a lot (a lot of the atmosphere was in the colors), but while he's definitely improved over the last decade, Daniel was a pretty quintessential 90's artist. When I think of Tony Daniel, I think of stuff like these:

http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/400/11/11193.jpg

http://images.darkhorse.com/covers/400/11/11743.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4/66154-11295-99151-1-adrenalynn_super.jpg

Just... meh.

[D_Davis]

God, those are terrible.

[number8]

Yeah, I pretty much dislike the 90's Image style. Todd MacFarlane, Tony Daniels, J. Scott Campbell, Michael Turner, Brandon Choi, Eric Larsen, even Jim Lee. None of them are terrible artists. I just find their art incredibly boring.

Actually, I take this back. I can't stand Michael Turner's art. RIP and all, but bleeeccch.

He drew the worst fucking Hulk I've ever seen:

http://www.comicsbulletin.com/news/images/0808/Hulk_07_TurnerVariant.jpg

[Sven]

I think the coloring on RIP helped Daniel' art a lot (a lot of the atmosphere was in the colors)

Yeah, I think I really ought to single out the colorists. Because I think it is the chromatic life of RIP's Gotham that is most compelling. Though Daniel's work has, as you say, definitely improved on those super meh-tastic jpegs you posted. I still think RIP has some of the strongest visuals in Morrison's catalogue.

[number8]

Over his collabs with Quitely? Psch.

[Sven]

Over his collabs with Quitely? Psch.

I said "some of". Quitely's work on Earth 2 and his huge creative spreads in We3 (I love the security camera sequence) are on the top of the list too. As is some of Porter's work on JLA (love the World War III stuff), Fegredo's work on Kid Eternity, Mahnke's work on Superman Beyond, Williams III's work on The Black Glove, Semeik's work on DC One Million as well as the aforementioned WildC.A.T.S./JLA cross-over, Stewart's work on Seaguy, Janson's work on Batman Gothic, and the work of Mahnke (again), Bianchi, and Irving on Seven Soldiers of Victory.

Off the cuff, those would comprise a top ten-ish. Though I also loved Yeowell's work on Sebastian O, McKean's drawings for Arkham Asylum, and a lot of Truog's stuff in Animal Man is beyond classic. A list would be pretty difficult to make... there's too much to represent.

[EyesWideOpen]

I wasn't reading comics in the 90's so I don't know that I'm supposed to hate certain artists and styles but Batman: Hush is fucking gorgeous as is All Star Batman and Robin.

J. Scott Campbell is my least favorite of the artists named but I've never seen any of his interiors just his covers and I don't care for them. I like Michael Turner and Tony Daniel just fine.

[Acapelli]

the worst thing about the 90s style image artists is that evryone looks EXACTLY THE SAME

that's what i really dislike about daniels, et al

[Acapelli]

I said "some of". Quitely's work on Earth 2 and his huge creative spreads in We3 (I love the security camera sequence) are on the top of the list too. As is some of Porter's work on JLA (love the World War III stuff), Fegredo's work on Kid Eternity, Mahnke's work on Superman Beyond, Williams III's work on The Black Glove, Semeik's work on DC One Million as well as the aforementioned WildC.A.T.S./JLA cross-over, Stewart's work on Seaguy, Janson's work on Batman Gothic, and the work of Mahnke (again), Bianchi, and Irving on Seven Soldiers of Victory.

Off the cuff, those would comprise a top ten-ish. Though I also loved Yeowell's work on Sebastian O, McKean's drawings for Arkham Asylum, and a lot of Truog's stuff in Animal Man is beyond classic. A list would be pretty difficult to make... there's too much to represent.
so basically daniels is near the bottom of your list then

discounting fill in artists, his work with daniels is really bottom of the barrel

[Sven]

discounting fill in artists, his work with daniels is really bottom of the barrel

I just cannot imagine someone reading RIP and getting that impression. I'm so in love with it. But I can drop it if you can.

[Acapelli]

I just cannot imagine someone reading RIP and getting that impression. I'm so in love with it. But I can drop it if you can.
well i meant bottom of his barrell, as you mentioned, i would rank almost all his his other collaborations with above his work with daniels. not saying that it's bad at all, it's good, but not great

[EyesWideOpen]

Daniel.

[Sven]

Instead of 702, which I have to wait for (damn it), I got the rest of available Batman and Robins, all the available Return of Bruce Waynes, and Aliens: Stronghold. I'm excited!

[Acapelli]

Instead of 702, which I have to wait for (damn it), I got the rest of available Batman and Robins, all the available Return of Bruce Waynes, and Aliens: Stronghold. I'm excited!
NICE!

enjoy!

[Sven]

NICE!

enjoy!

AND, as a badass present, the first volume of Jack Kirby's Fourth World omnibus. Damn!

[megladon8]

Ben Bova is a tool. (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/aug/14/ben-bova-knowledge-really-power----better-or-worse/)



Take the idea of graphic novels. Essentially, these are comic books for adults. Some of the works are quite striking and even powerful. But War and Peace they’re not. They’re not even Valley of the Dolls.

It’s impossible to reproduce a novel’s deep characterizations and nuances of plot development in a comic book format. I’ve had a couple of my short stories done in graphic style and, while I’m pleased with the results, I don’t see how a novel could be done that way — except by boiling down the novel to a few incidents and characters and tossing away almost all of the depth and plot development.

[Grouchy]

That whole article is disgraceful, specially the part where he claims that "ignorance and crime go hand in hand". I'm entirely against that notion.

[Sven]

AND, as a badass present, the first volume of Jack Kirby's Fourth World omnibus. Damn!

Goodness, man. Nobody warned me how awesome this was gonna be. I'm gonna half to cough up another 100+ bucks to finish this collection off. I guess not until next year. Sigh.

[Sven]

Frazer Irving is totally the real deal. After his Clarion run in Seven Soldiers, I was intrigued. After his issue of Return of Bruce Wayne, I was sold. After his first issue in this new chapter of Batman and Robin, I am ready to call him one of the best. That issue alone is among the finer comic collaborations, period. Every day, I'm getting jazzed about something new. I'm loving it.

[Acapelli]

Frazer Irving is totally the real deal. After his Clarion run in Seven Soldiers, I was intrigued. After his issue of Return of Bruce Wayne, I was sold. After his first issue in this new chapter of Batman and Robin, I am ready to call him one of the best. That issue alone is among the finer comic collaborations, period. Every day, I'm getting jazzed about something new. I'm loving it.
i definitely agree with you on irving

his work on the days missing mini for archaia was great too. he also did work on this b&w doctor strange one shot that was excellent. i even bought the issue of marvel's timestorm 2009/2099: x-men that he did solely to see his work

[number8]

There's nothing to argue here.

[Sven]

In fact...

I don't know how much I like it, but I think I need at least an interim new avatar.

[number8]

Let it be said that I was adoring Damian when most comic book fans were hating on him.

[dreamdead]

Curse you, Sven. I read The Invisibles Vol. 1 yesterday. After talking it over with the wife, I've ordered the whole run. Very intrigued to see how it develops.

[number8]

http://www.time-management-techniques.com/image-files/snowball_effect.jpg

[Sven]

Just about done with the third volume of 52. Folks were not lying: it's getting better. Still, I've never been fond of the outright murderous take on Luthor, the Batman stuff feels phoned in, all the Black Adam/Isis stuff (despite a compelling subject) is exactly the same scenes over and over, and the Question stuff is a drag.

Pretty much everything else is gnarly. I wish Jimenez did all the artwork. It's making me want to go take another look at Infinite Crisis.

[number8]

The Batman stuff does feel superfluous in 52, and it's there basically just so Morrison can set up his run. Otherwise, is there really a need for it? The story's already told at the end of Infinite Crisis. "Batman's off grid for one year to re-train and find himself." You can jump right into his return and it wouldn't miss anything.

[Sven]

... 52.

HO-ly Jesus. One minute I'm laughing out loud to his silliness. A few pages later...

Sobek! Holy God.

[Sven]

Finished 52. I'm very happy that the Oolong/Metal Men, Ralph Dibny, Animal Man/Starfire/Adam Strange, and the Booster Gold stuff take up as much narrative space as they do. The last bit of Montoya's progression was satisfying despite its lukewarm build up. I love Steel and his story with Luthor and his niece was great, but feels at once truncated (climaxes too early and too limply) and stagnant (John Henry, who rocks, is given little to do but worry). I was very sad with the way Black Adam & family's story turned out. Shocked at the uncompromising quality of it. My involvement with it is complex and uncomfortable, but in a mostly good way.

It was satisfying. It felt like watching a big, expensive, epic film, but one that doesn't suck.

[Sven]

Shame on me for not knowing earlier about the second arc of Seaguy and Joe the Barbarian! Masterpieces of artwork and narrative, both.

[Winston*]

Are you buying all of these comics you're reading, Sven?

[number8]

Clayton Crain's digital paintings have improved a lot since the abysmal mini he did with Garth Ennis. Pages from Shadowlands: Ghost Rider:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/pvw/aug18/gr/images/image0002.jpg

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/pvw/aug18/gr/images/image0003.jpg

[Acapelli]

i really can't get into his art, it's just not my thing

[Sven]

Are you buying all of these comics you're reading, Sven?

I have bought them all, yes. Some I regret (I don't know if I'd've bought 52), but for the most part, I've got a pretty respectable collection, comprised largely of Grant Morrison stuff, though I've also got quite a bit of other stuff. Enough to keep me reading for a while.

[Winston*]

I have bought them all, yes. Some I regret (I don't know if I'd've bought 52), but for the most part, I've got a pretty respectable collection, comprised largely of Grant Morrison stuff, though I've also got quite a bit of other stuff. Enough to keep me reading for a while.

Would your public library not carry any of the Morrison trades and whatnot? Or do you just feel you have to own them?

[Sven]

Would your public library not carry any of the Morrison trades and whatnot? Or do you just feel you have to own them?

Well, I do re-read the comics I have quite a bit. I'll remember some neat instance and flip back to it for reference or something. Best example would be the four-issue arc at the end of Morrison's X-Men run, set in the future where Beast is like this badass emperor of the world because he's possessed by this abstract awareness named Sublime. I've gone back to it a handful of times, never with diminishing returns. Or the first several pages of Flex Mentallo.

But I am somewhat of a materialist. I feel like I better know who I am if I have adequately customized the space around me with my interests. Books and DVDs are essential in this defining process. I recognize that this is a shortcoming and it has been undergoing an amendment process.

However, the Seattle Library DOES have quite a number of available comic books in its collection. I have utilized this as well. It is how I read Pride of Baghdad (lame) as well as the first bits of Preacher (wow) and Ex Machina (surprising). I am resolved to patronize it more frequently, particularly since my vow was re-implemented after my birthday.

[number8]

Dude, finish Preacher. It's one of the most emotionally satisfying series I've ever read.

[Sven]

Dude, finish Preacher. It's one of the most emotionally satisfying series I've ever read.

Good to know. I will likely tackle it when I am done with all that I have in my possession at the moment. Which will be soon-ish.

[dreamdead]

Kick Ass is plenty annoying. Its narrative moves quickly, but there's nothing thoughtful or engaging about the characters. It's obscene, ultra-violent, and feels as though those characteristics are enough to make it interesting.

Chew Vol. 1 and 2, on the other hand, are interesting and enjoyable. Not nearly as innovative to me as others seem to believe (as the Eisner awards testify to), but it's fun, engaging, and structured with interesting arcs. The F.D.A. stuff could develop into something more meaningful, as could the character arcs, but hopefully it'll keep expanding its universe.

[number8]

I'm salivating at the previews for Batman & Robin #14.

[Sven]

Kick Ass ... obscene, ultra-violent, and feels as though those characteristics are enough to make it interesting.

This, I find, is Millar's MO. Reading his stuff w/Morrison, it is SO clear who is writing which part at any time. Millar occasionally has some flair for intense action and epic emotions, but for the most part comes across as an intensely juvenile person.

[Sven]

I'm salivating at the previews for Batman & Robin #14.

Ack! If it's anywhere as good as 13, this arc will be something special.

[number8]

So no reaction yet on the ending of Ex Machina? I thought it was quite shocking, yet definitely fitting. Vaughan seems to have a penchant for bittersweet endings that are always more bitter than sweet.

[ledfloyd]

So no reaction yet on the ending of Ex Machina? I thought it was quite shocking, yet definitely fitting. Vaughan seems to have a penchant for bittersweet endings that are always more bitter than sweet.
i just read it last night. great ending. i can't wait to see what vaughan does next. y:tlm and ex machina are among my favorite books ever.

[number8]

So many people are focusing too much on the McCain twist and kind of missing the point.

[EyesWideOpen]

Thank you for spoiler tagging the Ex Machina discussion. I don't get my comics for another week.

[Sven]

I've been reading a ton lately. Thing is, I've been reading a ton of comics. And unfortunately, that's not the kind of thing you can really say too loudly these days, particularly when working in a bookstore where you are surrounded with "legitimate" reading. Still, I haven't read this much since high school pretty much. It feels pretty... excellent. And it feels great to expand the modes by which I am capable of translating visual expressions and information.

[EyesWideOpen]

Yeah it's sad that there is still such a preconceived notion about comics that they are for children and they're all male fantasy superhero books. My wife thought the same thing until she started reading some of the stuff I read.

In the last week or two I've read:

Complete Essex Trilogy (Jeff Lemiere story about Canadian rural life)
Gente Vol. 1 (manga series about senior citizens working at a cafe)
Torpedo Vol. 1 (80's noir book with some great art by Alex Toth & Jordi Bernet)
Life and Times of Martha Washington in the Twenty-First Century Omnibus (bat-shit crazy Frank Miller book)

All are examples of how expansive the medium is.

[Sven]

Yeah it's sad that there is still such a preconceived notion about comics that they are for children and they're all male fantasy superhero books.

It would probably be more sad, though, if one was able to say "I've been reading a lot of Batman lately" and not receive at least a little bit of a cocked eyebrow. I'm all for comics keeping at least a slight stigma of disrepute. I just wish such interests were a little more understood.


Life and Times of Martha Washington in the Twenty-First Century Omnibus (bat-shit crazy Frank Miller book)

Started this yesterday night at about midnight. I'm just over halfway done now. Gibbons is mighty impressive. I like his work here better than his Watchmen work. And I like that Frank Miller knows how to develop heavy themes without turning his characters into theme-spouting machines. He lets the story do the exploring.

And it's funny that you call it "bat-shit crazy," because next to most of the stuff I've been reading by Morrison, it is completely sensible and straightforward.

[megladon8]

I don't like that sometimes I feel I have to "hide" my interest in comic books in order to make new friends or maintain friendships.

When someone asks me what's new and if I've read anything good lately, it's rare I feel it is appropriate for me to say "I just re-read 'All-Star Superman' and it really is an incredible piece of work".

[number8]

Hm. I guess I've always been pretty open about it. Unless it's some obscure comic, then I don't bother saying it.

[megladon8]

Hm. I guess I've always been pretty open about it. Unless it's some obscure comic, then I don't bother saying it.


I'm open about it depending on my company.

The other night when I ran into three of the big jock guys who used to torment me in high school, the last thing I was going to do was say "yeah, I'm big into comic books, hoping to become a comic book writer myself."

I probably would have woken up in a ditch.

[number8]

Wait, why were you talking to them in the first place?

[megladon8]

Wait, why were you talking to them in the first place?


They approached me when I was at a pub with a couple of friends.

[number8]

They approached me when I was at a pub with a couple of friends.

....and then asked you if you read anything interesting lately?

[megladon8]

....and then asked you if you read anything interesting lately?


No, they asked me what I'd been up to.

[Acapelli]

i read comic books at my regular bar, the train, waiting for a concert, etc

i really don't care if someone thinks less of me and occasionally someone will be interested in whatever i'm reading and talk to me, which is pretty cool

[number8]

i read comic books at my regular bar, the train, waiting for a concert, etc

i really don't care if someone thinks less of me and occasionally someone will be interested in whatever i'm reading and talk to me, which is pretty cool

This is the same thing that happens to me when I go to bars wearing geeky t-shirts. I'd meet fellow Harry Potter, BSG, Batman fans, etc. just by standing around. Bonus if they're cute, which has happened.

[Sven]

My guess is it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't work in a book store and am constantly confronted about my interests and what I'm reading. And unfortunately my store's comic patronage is an unappealing bunch, and FAR more prolifically read than I, so I can't really put this current experience to much use.

The best thing that's come from it, though, is that I'm now decent buds with staff-folk from three of the city's four comic book shops.

[number8]

Actually, haha, I just remembered this.

At my local bar, I'm kinda known as the guy with the zippo because I'm always playing with it (a tic) and would always offer to light everyone's cigarette. So I met a new guy last week and he asked to see my zippo. He saw the "Fuck Communism" on it and, as with everyone else who've asked in the past, he just said, "Huh." as he handed it back. So I knew what that meant and just said, "John Wayne gave it to my daddy in Khe Sanh." He went, "Really?!"

After giggling for a minute, I explained what it really is, and he didn't seem that impressed.

[Grouchy]

After giggling for a minute, I explained what it really is, and he didn't seem that impressed.
This kind of 100% private humor irks me a bit. I like jokes that only one third of the room understands.

And now for something completely different. Could you post the whole scan of the page in your avatar?

[number8]

And now for something completely different. Could you post the whole scan of the page in your avatar?

Oh, it's a classic Heroes for Hire issue. Basically Dr. Doom hired Luke Cage for a job and then skipped town without paying. Cage got pissed, so he broke into the Baxter Building, stole the Fantastic Four's plane, flew to Latveria, broke into Doom's castle and basically pimpslapped the shit out of Dr. Doom.

Because of $200.

http://www.4thletter.net/gavok/50/11.jpg

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've been reading a ton lately. Thing is, I've been reading a ton of comics. And unfortunately, that's not the kind of thing you can really say too loudly these days, particularly when working in a bookstore where you are surrounded with "legitimate" reading. Still, I haven't read this much since high school pretty much. It feels pretty... excellent. And it feels great to expand the modes by which I am capable of translating visual expressions and information.

You should jump into indie comics. I'd be very interested what you make of guys like Clowes, Ware, Burns, Jason, Brown and Seth, foreign comic writers like Tardi and Herge, and psychopathic weirdos like Robert Crumb.

[Sven]

Clowes

Read two things. Thought he was okay.


Ware

Genius artist, great storyteller, too bleak for my tastes


Burns

Read some of Black Hole but thought it was kind of annoying. Would like to give it another try.


Jason... Seth

Know them as artists more than writers. Seth is cool. Jason is kind of overrated.


Herge

All I know is that Tintin's quality absolutely does not explain its reputation.


and psychopathic weirdos like Robert Crumb.

Again, I know his art and have read miscellaneous things. I'm not really captivated. He's a bit comic strippy, which is not exactly why I read these things. Though I have the book he did of the Bluesmen and it's one of my favorite books.

[number8]

Have you read any Jeffrey Brown?

[Sven]

Have you read any Jeffrey Brown?

I have a friend who swears by him, but I have not read anything by him.

Martha Washington was okay. The artwork and narrative in the first three chapters are so great that the rest of the book (which is fine) is ugly and plodding by comparison.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Read some of Black Hole but thought it was kind of annoying. Would like to give it another try.


All I know is that Tintin's quality absolutely does not explain its reputation.

Again, I know his art and have read miscellaneous things. I'm not really captivated. He's a bit comic strippy, which is not exactly why I read these things. Though I have the book he did of the Bluesmen and it's one of my favorite books.

I figured your appreciation for weirdness and the grotesque would translate well to Burns' oeuvre. Black Hole is his most daring and biggest success, but for you I'd check out El Borbah, Big Baby and Skin Deep first which are all twisted and disturbing in a darkly hilarious way.

I don't know what you mean by 'All I know is that Tintin's quality absolutely does not explain its reputation', but I hope it means that you have a frankly bizarre perception that people don't rate Tintin or something, and it's quality is simply too good for the masses... or something. I can't think of a more taut and well-crafted adventure series in any medium. Truly one of literature's greatest acheivements.

Crumb doesn't write book-length narratives this is true, but his worldview is absolutely fascinating and (I'd argue) essential to the development of comics. Kinda like Peanuts or Gasoline Alley, but with far more sexual hangups, homicidal fantasies and racist ideology.

And nobody ever listens to me, so I have say it again until you guys get it in your head - READ JACQUES TARDI.

[Grouchy]

All I know is that Tintin's quality absolutely does not explain its reputation.
You know very little then. Hergé was a wonder amongst storytellers.

Two more recommendations from me - Will Eisner's The Spirit and Peter Bagge's Hate.

"When my men reported a crazy black man in the Fantastic Four's craft, I knew it HAD to be you!"

[Sven]

I don't know, guys. I've read a couple of those Tintin adventures, and well...

I'd like to try Black Hole again. Potentially soon.

[EyesWideOpen]

I traded in some books today and with the credit picked up the first three Grant Morrison Animal Man trades. I've been wanting to read these for awhile.

[dreamdead]

I traded in some books today and with the credit picked up the first three Grant Morrison Animal Man trades. I've been wanting to read these for awhile.

It starts typically, gets awesome by the beginning of the third volume, and has one of the best final issues I've ever read. Mildly curious about the recent reboot of Animal Man, but I'll wait for others to say if it's worthwhile or not...

[EyesWideOpen]

I just noticed that Morrison only was on the book until issue #26 so the three trades collect all of his run and the series kept going with other writers until issue 90 or so and were never collected.

[D_Davis]

You should jump into indie comics. I'd be very interested what you make of guys like Clowes, Ware, Burns, Jason, Brown and Seth, foreign comic writers like Tardi and Herge, and psychopathic weirdos like Robert Crumb.

Chester Brown

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's who I referred to with 'Brown'. Sorry, that should have been clearer.

And yeah, Chester Brown is pretty neat. I actually saw him the other day buying cheese at this cheese store I always go to, but was too shy to say hello.

[megladon8]

I love indie comics but some of the regularly touted "masters" I find terribly overrated.

[Sven]

New av. Russ's comment about Rosie O'Donnell made me too self-conscious to wear the other one.

[megladon8]

New av. Russ's comment about Rosie O'Donnell made me too self-conscious to wear the other one.


I like it!

[Acapelli]

man, i loathe jeffrey brown

[Acapelli]

and seaguy rules. i got cameron stewart to sign my copies of seaguy 2 #2 & #3

[Acapelli]

It starts typically, gets awesome by the beginning of the third volume, and has one of the best final issues I've ever read. Mildly curious about the recent reboot of Animal Man, but I'll wait for others to say if it's worthwhile or not...
"last days of animal man"? it's ok, nothing special

he's awesome in 52 though

[ledfloyd]

i don't think contemporary comics get much better than clowes and ware.

[Grouchy]

I don't know, guys. I've read a couple of those Tintin adventures, and well...
What have you read? The first couple of books are somewhat naive and reflect a very Euro-centric view of the world, but that's all the negative I got about Tintn.

[Spaceman Spiff]

i don't think contemporary comics get much better than clowes and ware.

They don't. Although I adore Jason as well.

[number8]

I'm torn. On one hand this is a nice point to make. On the other, man, way to lay it on thick, Ellis.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2199/axm035024.jpg

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4508/axm035026.jpg

[Sven]

Pretty cool.

[number8]

I can never get tired of Warren Ellis' phrasings. That's why I follow him on Twitter.

"Murder science." Ha.

[EyesWideOpen]

I'm re-reading (originally read in single issues) through 52 in trade (just finished volume 2) and it's such a better read this way. I love the creator comments at the end of each issue.

[Sven]

I'm re-reading (originally read in single issues) through 52 in trade (just finished volume 2) and it's such a better read this way. I love the creator comments at the end of each issue.

I was just talking about how much more successful I speculate it would have been to read them week by week, although I'm sure that would've nerfed what I feel to be the series's best quality: bombast. The louder, tighter, and more aggressive it was, the better.

[Sven]

Reading through both RIP and Final Crisis again, to piece together Batman's narrative. Holy intricacy!

[ledfloyd]

something possessed me to check out jason yesterday. i read i killed adolf hitler, werewolves of montpellier, and the left bank gang

i think the hitler book is my favorite, but they're all kind of brilliant. his deadpan abusrd humor paired with his existential queries speaks pretty directly to me. he almost reminds me of jim jarmusch. but with crazier, pulpier plots.

[EyesWideOpen]

something possessed me to check out jason yesterday. i read i killed adolf hitler, werewolves of montpellier, and the left bank gang

i think the hitler book is my favorite, but they're all kind of brilliant. his deadpan abusrd humor paired with his existential queries speaks pretty directly to me. he almost reminds me of jim jarmusch. but with crazier, pulpier plots.

I plan on buying everything I can get of his very soon. So far I have Werewolves of Montpellier and The Last Musketeer. Both fantastic but Musketeer is my favorite.

[megladon8]

Does the name Aaron Cain, or this drawing mean anything to anyone here?

I'm drawing a blank.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/7480/flashil.jpg

[ledfloyd]

I plan on buying everything I can get of his very soon. So far I have Werewolves of Montpellier and The Last Musketeer. Both fantastic but Musketeer is my favorite.
i read what are you doing this for?, the last musketeer, and hey, wait... today.

i'd say of the bunch my favorites are what are you doing this for and i killed adolf hitler. hey wait is terribly depressing. the last musketeer is a ton of fun. it's kind of a shame they are so short and quick and easy to read. although my library/friends don't have anything else by him.

[EyesWideOpen]

Here's a list I put together of all his stuff available in the US. Some are collections which contain a few stories in one volume:

Almost Silent (collects Meow Baby, Tell Me Something, You Can't Get There From Here, and The Living and the Dead.)
I Killed Adolf Hitler
Low Moon (collects "Emily Says Hello", "Low Moon", "&", "Proto Film Noir", and "You are Here")
Pocket Full of Rain and Other Stories (Collects Pocket Full of Rain and 24 other Jason shorts)
The Left Bank Gang
What I Did. (collects Hey Wait, Sshhh!, and The Iron Wagon)
Why Are You Doing This?
The Last Musketeer
Werewolves of Montpellier

The What I Did HC doesn't come out till october.

[ledfloyd]

yeah, apparently most of the stuff i haven't read is in those collections. i may have to pick them up sooner or later.

still mulling over/rereading the ones i have right now. so good.

[jenniferofthejungle]

Does the name Aaron Cain, or this drawing mean anything to anyone here?

I'm drawing a blank.



http://www.aaroncain.com/

[Spaceman Spiff]

yeah, apparently most of the stuff i haven't read is in those collections. i may have to pick them up sooner or later.

still mulling over/rereading the ones i have right now. so good.

Yeah, Jason is great. I keep telling everyone I know to read him. I love his artwork too. Those bird beaks are great.

[Sven]

Re-read Final Crisis and am now just about done with the second Volume of Fourth World. My life is being rocked with hardcore epic sauce. Gods, cosmic planes, atomic age masters of infinity, time and space...

It is certainly filling the hole in my soul that is so rarely filled by films these days: the need for grand, epic narrative, heroes, eternal dimensions, vistas and worlds and the fantastic. Scope. I need scope, and this stuff doesn't feel canned the way cinema has come to feel. Perhaps comic art is the medium best suited for scale. Maybe opera. I am interested in thinking more about this idea.

[EvilShoe]

Need some advice. I want to buy those Alan Moore Swamp Thing collections, but don't know which to get.

I assume this (http://www.amazon.com/Saga-Swamp-Thing-Book-1/dp/1401220827/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283334627&sr=8-1) is the first volume? How many are there in total?

Or should I just buy the paperbacks?

[EyesWideOpen]

Need some advice. I want to buy those Alan Moore Swamp Thing collections, but don't know which to get.

I assume this (http://www.amazon.com/Saga-Swamp-Thing-Book-1/dp/1401220827/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283334627&sr=8-1) is the first volume? How many are there in total?

Or should I just buy the paperbacks?

Yep, that's the first one. There are 3 so far. It will probably be cheaper for you just to buy the HC's since they tend to include 2 paperbacks worth of stories and the HC's are the only way to get Alan Moore's first issue #20 which wasn't reprinted in the softcovers.

[Grouchy]

Ythe HC's are the only way to get Alan Moore's first issue #20 which wasn't reprinted in the softcovers.
I... didn't know that. I thought the first issue was "The Anatomy Lesson".

[EyesWideOpen]

I... didn't know that. I thought the first issue was "The Anatomy Lesson".

Yeah, he uses the #20 issue to wrap up loose ends that were from the first 19 issues (the Len Wein and Marty Pasko stuff) so he can start his stories. It's still a great issue even if you hadn't read the first 19.

[number8]

So the Wolverine relaunch is awesome, 1 Month 2 Live is very promising, and Taskmaster #1 is my favorite of the week.

[EyesWideOpen]

So the Wolverine relaunch is awesome, 1 Month 2 Live is very promising, and Taskmaster #1 is my favorite of the week.

Jason Aaron Wolverine has been awesome for the last two years it's about time you got with the program.

[megladon8]

So was Aaron's "Wolverine: Weapon X" title good?

[EyesWideOpen]

So was Aaron's "Wolverine: Weapon X" title good?

Yes!

[megladon8]

Yes!


Cool, I'll have to check it out.

I've been holding off on buying Aaron's much-lauded "Ghost Rider" run because I figured there'd be an all-in-one collection at some point. Low and behold! October 10th!

[Irish]

Led, is that avatar from Werewolves of Montpelier?

Also, has anyone here red Warren Ellis' "Red"? Kinda curious how it compares to his other stuff & whether it's worth buying.

[Sven]

I'm salivating at the previews for Batman & Robin #14.

Seriously, oh my goodness...

[bac0n]

Yeah, I quite enjoyed Taskmaster 1 too.

On a different note, I counted and ordered all the various comics that comprised the Blackest Night story line that I had picked up over the course of its run, starting with Blackest Night 0 and whichever GL comic served as the prologue, running all the way to the GL Corps that was the epilogue.

Counting the GLs, GL Corps, Blackest Nights, the three Tales of the Corps preview issues, Blackest Night Batman & Blackest Night Flash (I didn't bother with the half dozen other offshoots), the total comes to 37 issues.

Yeesh

[ledfloyd]

i gave up on following morrison's batman monthly. it's much easier to follow in trades. still think it's the best batman story outside of year one and DKR. i can't wait until it's complete.


Led, is that avatar from Werewolves of Montpelier
it's the cover of low moon.

[ledfloyd]

i've been binging on comics as of late. after working through jason i read fun home, a small killing and black hole. black hole is among the best comics i've ever read.

after that i read ed the happy clown, which i thought was kind of awful, and i followed it up with louis riel, which i really enjoyed. i decided to check out yummy fur, and something about seeing the ed stories paired up with his retellings of the gospels warmed me up to them. what a unique guy. and i'm really enjoying the gospels. it's a shame these have never been collected. prior to this i had only read i never liked you and the playboy.

i also reread adrian tomine's work. i wonder where the issue of optic nerve he alluded to in the final issue of shortcomings is? i can never get enough of him.

[Sven]

The Man Who Laughs is a really uninteresting story told exceptionally well. Mahnke is (easily) my favorite pencil man, period. Brubaker is clearly talented, but the story isn't really about anything. It's just a rote procedural with some technical flair, but little personality. The second story in the TPB, however, by Brubs & Zircher, is much better. Gordon is made very compelling.

[EyesWideOpen]

The Man Who Laughs is a really uninteresting story told exceptionally well. Mahnke is (easily) my favorite pencil man, period. Brubaker is clearly talented, but the story isn't really about anything. It's just a rote procedural with some technical flair, but little personality. The second story in the TPB, however, by Brubs & Zircher, is much better. Gordon is made very compelling.

Have you read any Gotham Central yet?

[EyesWideOpen]

i've been binging on comics as of late. after working through jason i read fun home, a small killing and black hole. black hole is among the best comics i've ever read.

after that i read ed the happy clown, which i thought was kind of awful, and i followed it up with louis riel, which i really enjoyed. i decided to check out yummy fur, and something about seeing the ed stories paired up with his retellings of the gospels warmed me up to them. what a unique guy. and i'm really enjoying the gospels. it's a shame these have never been collected. prior to this i had only read i never liked you and the playboy.

i also reread adrian tomine's work. i wonder where the issue of optic nerve he alluded to in the final issue of shortcomings is? i can never get enough of him.

That's some great reading! I just finished Black Hole yesterday and I've read Fun Home and Shortcomings within the last few months, all fantastic. Have you read any other of Tomine's work you can recommend? Shortcomings is the only thing I've read.

[Spaceman Spiff]

i also reread adrian tomine's work. i wonder where the issue of optic nerve he alluded to in the final issue of shortcomings is? i can never get enough of him.

Lost me here. I love Jason, Burns and Brown but Tomine just doesn't do it for me. Too many comics these days are about lonely, depressed 20-something hipsters who still get laid and have friends, so I'm not sure why they're being lonely and depressed. He doesn't really add much to the genre, even if I love his ligne claire style, but then I would as I'm a total Hergé fanboy.

[number8]

Tomine's characters don't always get laid, though. :P

[Spaceman Spiff]

Tomine's characters don't always get laid, though. :P

True, I was talking generally about Shortcomings, and some of the Optic Nerve series (haven't read Summer Blonde). It's still a pretty recurring motif though.

I suppose his thematic concerns involving race and 'Asian-ness' in modern 'bohemian living' (i guess) might resonate with some, but I'm not asian, so... I dunno. I am latin, but a very assimilated one.

[ledfloyd]

That's some great reading! I just finished Black Hole yesterday and I've read Fun Home and Shortcomings within the last few months, all fantastic. Have you read any other of Tomine's work you can recommend? Shortcomings is the only thing I've read.
i think i might prefer summer blonde to shortcomings. and sleepwalk is really good too.


and a lot of people get laid and have friends but are still lonely and depressed. i think tomine does a good job of capturing the unsatisfiable urge to truly know someone else. and the struggle to really understand ourselves.

[Sven]

Are there any good resources for reviews and criticism of comics, including single issues and superhero comics?

[megladon8]

Are there any good resources for reviews and criticism of comics, including single issues and superhero comics?


Comic Book Resources (http://www.comicbookresources.com/) has up-to-date reviews of weekly releases as well as reviews of graphic novels and even some manga.

They also cover all comic-related events, as well as providing news on film adaptations.

[number8]

Charlie Huston wrote a Punisher one-shot. Definitely buying.

[EyesWideOpen]

Charlie Huston wrote a Punisher one-shot. Definitely buying.

I could have sworn he had written a couple Punisher one-shots but looking through my database it looks like I was wrong.

He had a story in the Punisher Max #75 issue, along with a story in the Shang-Chi Black and White One Shot, and in the X-Force: Ain't No Dog Special all three were fantastic.

[Sven]

So, issue 1 of Tom Strong: ♪ fan-TAS-tiiiic! ♫
Issue 1 of Transmet: Enticing.
Issue 1 of Tokyo Storm: Dumbfounding.
Issue 1 of Black Adam: Metal.
Final Crisis: Requiem: not gonna lie, I choked up a bit.

[Sven]

Warning. Tokyo Storm Warning.

[Acapelli]

Comic Book Resources (http://www.comicbookresources.com/) has up-to-date reviews of weekly releases as well as reviews of graphic novels and even some manga.

They also cover all comic-related events, as well as providing news on film adaptations.
make sure to check out the buy pile guy if you want to read THE WORST OPINIONS EVER

[EyesWideOpen]

make sure to check out the buy pile guy if you want to read THE WORST OPINIONS EVER

YES!

I check the site every day or so just to read new interviews or see a new story but most of their editiorial stuff is just awful. I've read the buy pile guy's column a few times and it usually comes down to "I read 20 books this week and two of them were worth buying".

[ledfloyd]

tom strong is one of the few substantial moore books i haven't read. swamp thing and marvelman are my other big blind spots.

[number8]

Oh man, Batman Odyssey is sooooooooo bad.

Never let Neal Adams write anything.

[megladon8]

I had no idea Bob Kane was such a fraud. And a dick.

[Acapelli]

tom strong is one of the few substantial moore books i haven't read. swamp thing and marvelman are my other big blind spots.
speaking of swamp thing, i just picked up the first hardcover. was a little disappointed with the package though. 8 issues for msrp $25 felt like a bit of a ripoff (even though that's not what i paid for it) and i wish it was oversized

[Acapelli]

YES!

I check the site every day or so just to read new interviews or see a new story but most of their editiorial stuff is just awful. I've read the buy pile guy's column a few times and it usually comes down to "I read 20 books this week and two of them were worth buying".
the best part is that one of the few books that he says is worth buying week in and week out is a FUCKING HANDBOOK

[EyesWideOpen]

speaking of swamp thing, i just picked up the first hardcover. was a little disappointed with the package though. 8 issues for msrp $25 felt like a bit of a ripoff (even though that's not what i paid for it) and i wish it was oversized

Have you not been buying a lot of trades in the last few years? Because that's become the norm. Almost all 3-4 issue miniseries are collected in trade for $15-20. Hell, the Absolute Green Lantern Rebirth costs $75 and it includes the 6 issue mini and the first issue of Green Lantern. It's only 228 pages. The trade which cost $14.99 is 192 pages.

I also have pretty much never paid MSRP for any trade/hardcover so I don't even think about what the original price was what with amazon/instocktrades/borders coupons and the like I get every book for at least 30% off.

[Spaceman Spiff]

tom strong is one of the few substantial moore books i haven't read. swamp thing and marvelman are my other big blind spots.

Do you mean Miracleman? I actually don't really like Moore's run. I thought Watchmen did a much better job at fusing superhero mythos and cliches in 80s America.

Not a huge fan of Swamp Thing either, but it's certainly well-written (kinda) and wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from reading it.

[monolith94]

speaking of swamp thing, i just picked up the first hardcover. was a little disappointed with the package though. 8 issues for msrp $25 felt like a bit of a ripoff (even though that's not what i paid for it) and i wish it was oversized
I read the whole series for free, from the library.

[number8]

Dude Batman & Robin #14 is absolute sweetness.

[number8]

Great interview.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/09/09/alan-moore-speaks-watchmen-2-to-adi-tantimedh

This part is especially biting:


This is just my appraisal of these things, but it’s… I don’t know, again, a funny thing to do if they see these things as being as important as they seem to think they are. At the end of the day, if they haven’t got any properties that are valuable enough, but they have got these ‘top-flight industry creators’ that are ready to produce these prequels and sequels to WATCHMEN, well this is probably a radical idea, but could they not get one of the ‘top-flight industry creators’ to come up with an idea of their own? Why are DC Comics trying to exploit a comic book that I wrote 25 years ago if they have got anything? Sure they ought to have had an equivalent idea since? I could ask about why Marvel Comics are churning out or planning to bring out my ancient MARVELMAN stories, which are even older, if they had a viable idea of their own in the quarter-century since I wrote those works. I mean, surely that would be a much easier solution than all of this clandestine stuff? Just simply get some of your top-flight talent to put out a book that the wider public outside of the comics field find as interesting or as appealing as the stuff that I wrote 25 years ago. It shouldn’t be too big an ask, should it? I wouldn’t have thought so. And it would solve an awful lot of problems. They must have one creator, surely, in the entire American industry that could do equivalent work to something I did 25 years ago. It would be insulting to think that there weren’t.

[EyesWideOpen]

That is a great article. It shows me how completely out of touch with reality Alan Moore has become.

[megladon8]

Seriously, did anyone else know about Bob Kane's rather dubious career and how pretty much everything attributed to him was not actually done by him?

[number8]

Is this that shit from that Men of Tomorrow book that accused Kane of actually creating a "Birdman" rather than Batman? I never took that seriously.

[megladon8]

Is this that shit from that Men of Tomorrow book that accused Kane of actually creating a "Birdman" rather than Batman? I never took that seriously.


No, he created Batman.

He was just both a terrible artist and writer and most everything attributed to his writing/drawing skills was ghosted by someone else. Not that this was an uncommon practice at the time, but Kane has a lot of work that is solidly attributed to him and he simply didn't create it.

Even when he took a break from comics and tried to have a career as a fine artist, he showed a gallery of his paintings of sad clowns and it was later found that it was some young girl who lived near him who actually painted them, then he came in and wrote "Bob Kane" on them.

[Acapelli]

read "welcome back frank" and the first swamp thing hc

both were great

[Grouchy]

That is a great article. It shows me how completely out of touch with reality Alan Moore has become.
What a strange thing to say.

[Acapelli]

What a strange thing to say.
how so? he's made it known that he hasn't read any mainstream comics in years, yet he can feel like he can describe with confidence the current state of the comic book industry based on the recent happenings with watchmen and miracleman? i really doubt that marvel and dc are staking their entire company futures on those two properties which is what it sounds like to me what he's saying. dude is a great writer, but completely out of touch

[Grouchy]

how so? he's made it known that he hasn't read any mainstream comics in years, yet he can feel like he can describe with confidence the current state of the comic book industry based on the recent happenings with watchmen and miracleman? i really doubt that marvel and dc are staking their entire company futures on those two properties which is what it sounds like to me what he's saying. dude is a great writer, but completely out of touch
For me what he's saying is completely grounded and clear as water. If they need to exploit those two finished properties like that, they are starved for ideas. And they are.

How is that being out of touch with anything?

[EyesWideOpen]

For me what he's saying is completely grounded and clear as water. If they need to exploit those two finished properties like that, they are starved for ideas. And they are.

How is that being out of touch with anything?

Sounds like your out of touch with how publishing works. Watchmen is the highest selling graphic novel of all time do you not understand how DC would like to make more of them. It has nothing to do with being out of ideas. They release plenty of high quality books each year and quite a few with "ideas" in them. But their number one purpose is to make money and getting Alan Moore or Dave Gibbons to be involved in making another one or some off-shoot even would be a huge deal in the comics industry and that's why they pursue it.

And how dare Marvel try to bring back in to print his old Marvelman stories which haven't been available in years for a new generation to read. I bet Orson Welles got equally pissed when they released Citizen Kane on vhs/dvd for future generations to watch. It's obvious the studio was starved for ideas.

[number8]

But their number one purpose is to make money and getting Alan Moore or Dave Gibbons to be involved in making another one or some off-shoot even would be a huge deal in the comics industry and that's why they pursue it.

And that's why Alan Moore was making fun of them. He's looking down on the fact that something 25 years old that's by and large a finite and completed story that he has expressed multiple times for two decades that he's not interested in revisiting is still being pursued, and snobby as that may be, it's not exactly a baseless opinion. I mean, he is the author, after all.

Moore's dry sense of humor aside, which I don't think ever comes off very well in print interviews, nobody can justifiable fault him for not understanding why he keeps getting harassed by DC to this extent.

[Acapelli]

i can understand the watchmen stuff, but why does he seem so surprised that there's interest in miracleman? it's been out of print pretty much forever and regarded as one of his best stories ever. does he really want to deprive new readers of his stories just because they weren't around when they were first released?

[Sven]

I'm siding with Moore on this one. It feels right to bemoan the emphasis of consumption over creation. Plus, dude's intellectual properties have been thoroughly junked by modern consumers, so I don't blame him at all for taking his argument to a broader level.

[number8]

i can understand the watchmen stuff, but why does he seem so surprised that there's interest in miracleman? it's been out of print pretty much forever and regarded as one of his best stories ever. does he really want to deprive new readers of his stories just because they weren't around when they were first released?

No, I think he's taking into account the incredibly messy history of Marvelman's rights. People have been battling for that title for literally decades, which is why it's out of print, and Moore is just fed up with it. He had to put up with Marvel's bullshit suing him for using the word "Marvel" in the title, and forcing them to change it to Miracleman. And now they get the rights 30 years later and they get to print it finally, when Moore originally gave them to Neil Gaiman, who really should be the owner?

Kudos where it's deserved: Marvel was actually going to pay Moore royalties from the reprints, and as usual, Moore told them to just give them all to the Mick Anglo.

[Sycophant]

I may well be the only one who cares, but here are some Darkwing Duck #6 and #7 covers. The more spoilerish 6 and 7s are under the spoiler.

http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/dw6a.jpg http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/dw7b.jpg

http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/dw6b.jpg http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/dw7a.jpg


The issue 7 cover A (under the spoiler) has me geeking the fuck out.

Also, in case y'all didn't hear, Rescue Rangers is coming back via Boom! Studios in an ongoing starting in December.

http://www.whatnotstudios.com/shit/cdrr1a.jpg

[megladon8]

I find Alan Moore to be a self-important, crotchety old koot with hypocritical "morals" regarding artistic integrity.

It really bugs me the way some of his fans seem to blindly support anything he says as if it is scripture.

The guy has been wronged in the past, no doubt about that, but his statements regarding the industry are as ridiculous and outdated as film fans who have been saying since the '50s that "filmmakers are running out of ideas".

When I read of all the problems he's had with publishers, copyrights, I don't understand why people never think that, hey, the industry is difficult for sure, but maybe he is incredibly difficult and demanding to work with too.

Like Acapelli said, I think it's wrong of him to be so vehemently dismissive of modern superhero comics when he openly says that he never reads them, and hasn't in years.

That's the kind of crap that no one would put up with if it weren't for the fact that he's Alan Moore. But since he says it, it must be profound and incredible!

The guy's written some brilliant stuff for sure, but so have a lot of other writers. And he's also written some all-out shit.

[number8]

It really bugs me the way some of his fans seem to blindly support anything he says as if it is scripture.

It really bugs me when people say this. Because more ridiculous than the people who agree with his more paranoid remarks is the people who get up in arms over his opinion on things he doesn't pay attention to anymore.

Here's a question: he's openly said that superhero comics no longer interest him, he doesn't read them and he'd rather do other things. Why do people keep pestering him to say and do otherwise?

[megladon8]

It really bugs me when people say this.


Why because it's true? :P

Alan Moore fans I know IRL are some of the most frustrating people I've ever tried to talk with because they insist every single word emitted from that man's vocal cords is littered with brilliant nuance.

If he took a shit and smeared it on a piece of paper they'd call it the finest thing to hit graphic art since "Watchmen".

And don't even get me started on the people who use his promiscuous sex life as a means to support his brilliance.

[megladon8]

Here's a question: he's openly said that superhero comics no longer interest him, he doesn't read them and he'd rather do other things. Why do people keep pestering him to say and do otherwise?


Because he makes statements about the current state of superhero comics when he openly doesn't read them.

If I were to say that everything Takashi Miike has done since Audition is insipid and unoriginal, then went on to say that I haven't seen anything he's done since Audition, would you really not call me on that?

[Grouchy]

When I read of all the problems he's had with publishers, copyrights, I don't understand why people never think that, hey, the industry is difficult for sure, but maybe he is incredibly difficult and demanding to work with too.
Or maybe he doesn't like being fucked in the ass and that makes him a rarity. It's amazing how you are so quick to side with the corporation over the author without an intimate knowledge of the facts, which is what that interview with Moore provides. Have you read it?


Sounds like your out of touch with how publishing works. Watchmen is the highest selling graphic novel of all time do you not understand how DC would like to make more of them. It has nothing to do with being out of ideas. They release plenty of high quality books each year and quite a few with "ideas" in them. But their number one purpose is to make money and getting Alan Moore or Dave Gibbons to be involved in making another one or some off-shoot even would be a huge deal in the comics industry and that's why they pursue it.
So wait a second here. You're admitting that DC wants to throw a little smear in a finished book by publishing unnecessary and most likely frustrating sequels with the sole purpose of making mad money (since that's how publishing works), and you don't understand why Alan Moore is against it?

If the answer is yes, discussion is over.

[Grouchy]

Because he makes statements about the current state of superhero comics when he openly doesn't read them.
Does he really need to read them, though? I read superhero comics, I like them, and I have to admit I can imagine what's in 90% of them just by looking at the covers.

[megladon8]

Or maybe he doesn't like being fucked in the ass and that makes him a rarity. It's amazing how you are so quick to side with the corporation over the author without an intimate knowledge of the facts, which is what that interview with Moore provides. Have you read it?


Yes, I'm siding with the corporation. That's exactly what I'm doing.

Just a second...I'm finishing up the order I'm placing for security cameras in your apartment. The feed will be sent to Marvel, Microsoft and the Pentagon.

BTW - there are aliens at Area 51.

[megladon8]

Does he really need to read them, though? I read superhero comics, I like them, and I have to admit I can imagine what's in 90% of them just by looking at the covers.


Wow.

Alan Moore doesn't have to read books to judge them.

See? This is the kind of crap that drives me nuts.

[Sycophant]

Y'all sure you didn't do this one last Fall or Spring or something? I guess the new season doesn't usually start till late September.

[Grouchy]

Wow.

Alan Moore doesn't have to read books to judge them.

See? This is the kind of crap that drives me nuts.
No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying nobody needs to read them to know that they're more of the same, which is essentially Moore's complaint - that the mainstream comic book world is stuck on a wheel.

[megladon8]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying nobody needs to read them to know that they're more of the same, which is essentially Moore's complaint - that the mainstream comic book world is stuck on a wheel.


But that's not true. And that's what I have a problem with, because Moore is an intelligent guy and he should know better.

There are incredible, different titles out there. Yes, they are certainly outnumbered by the same-ol', same-ol' crap, but that's the same as every single media out there from literature to fine art to music.

It's called Sturgeon's Law. "Ninety percent of everything is crud."

Yes, ninety percent of big-name superhero comics are crud. But he's ignoring the ten percent that are genuinely great.

The law applies to his own work, too. I've read a lot of Moore stuff that ranges from good-but-overrated, to utter crap. There are only a handful of titles he himself has written that I find to be genuinely masterful pieces of work.

I consider myself a Moore fan, actually. I just don't want to fellate him every time he opens his mouth.

[Grouchy]

But Moore's beef with superhero comics doesn't come from whether they're good or bad quality, whether they have intelligent scripts, poor scripts, good or bad drawings. He's against them because they're more of the same, and you can't deny that. It's all Batman, Batman is dead and resurrected, Spiderman is single again, Green Lantern stuff, whatever. It might be good or bad, but it's more of the same.

Now, I don't have such an extreme position. I like superheroes, I like more of the same. But that doesn't mean I can't see a valid point when I see one.

Honestly, compare even the best mainstream superhero comic-books, even the ones Morrison writes, with "Promethea" and "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", and tell me which ones are more unique and note-worthy for comic books, both in their ideas and in their approach to telling stories.

[number8]

Because he makes statements about the current state of superhero comics when he openly doesn't read them.

If I were to say that everything Takashi Miike has done since Audition is insipid and unoriginal, then went on to say that I haven't seen anything he's done since Audition, would you really not call me on that?

Not if Takashi Miike insulted your mother, prompting you to not want to watch his films again, and I continually come over to your house screaming through your bay window, "No, really his movies are awesome. LET ME IN AND WATCH THIS WITH ME, YOU PUSSY! Change your mind!"

[megladon8]

Morrison > Moore

[Grouchy]

Morrison > Moore
Huh, whatever. Next time you want to argue something, bring arguments.

[megladon8]

Huh, whatever. Next time you want to argue something, bring arguments.


:lol:

You're too funny.

I made my points pretty clear.

Now I'm just stating an opinion. I prefer Morrison's work to Moore's.

[number8]

The idea of Alan Moore being difficult and demanding is rather laughable to me, because so far he hasn't asked for anything but to be left alone. He gave up the money, and he's even given up on putting a stop to all these bastardizations of his work. He even gives his blessing to his co-creators to capitalize on his work and make some money for themselves. All he wants is for his name to be kept out, and they can't even do that.

It's just a sad, sad career everytime I think of him. I can't even imagine the level of frustration one has to go through when you leave a company as big as DC to form your own (excellent) comic book line with an independent company, only to helplessly watch said company bought by DC and then forced to continue writing for them after you've already publicly and bitterly left the company.

And the disgusting thing about it is that people would criticize him by saying, "Well, that's just how the industry works." That's fine. It's true. And many other writers are willing to compromise and let themselves get fucked over and over (Dwayne MacDuffie, my heart is with you) by the publishers because they love the iconic characters and they want to keep writing them. And god bless those guys for their patience. But why in the name of hell that when one guy decides to say, "Um, this practice sucks. I'm just gonna go do my own thing, you guys suck, please leave me alone," he is suddenly mocked? It blows my fucking mind.

[number8]

Ugh, my head hurts when I think about ABC. It's too depressing.

[Grouchy]

Exactly. It reminds me of Straczynski and the "One More Day" debacle. Joe Quesada was running the story, and Stracz wanted his name taken off it, only he didn't have the balls to go ahead with it and antagonize the industry, so to speak. The result? His reputation as a writer forever tied to one of the shittiest ideas of all time. In light of stories like that, I think "difficult to work with" should be regarded as a compliment.

[Sven]

This reminds me of a question I was going to ask: how much say does a writer of magnum caliber have over the direction a canonical character's life goes? I'd guess major sort of things probably have to be board approved, but is there anything more to it than that? To reword the question to stay relevant: how much of Grant Morrison's All Star Superman narrative did he create himself and how much of it was him doing what DC says?

[ledfloyd]

The law applies to his own work, too. I've read a lot of Moore stuff that ranges from good-but-overrated, to utter crap. There are only a handful of titles he himself has written that I find to be genuinely masterful pieces of work.
i'm not arguing here but i am curious as to which moore works you consider utter crap.

[ledfloyd]

This reminds me of a question I was going to ask: how much say does a writer of magnum caliber have over the direction a canonical character's life goes? I'd guess major sort of things probably have to be board approved, but is there anything more to it than that? To reword the question to stay relevant: how much of Grant Morrison's All Star Superman narrative did he create himself and how much of it was him doing what DC says?
all star superman i'm sure was all grant because the series exists out of continuity. i can't imagine dc had much of a hand in the direction all star batman and robin took.

[Sven]

I guess the better example would've been to ask about his current Batman, although that has become its own beast now, as Daniel is in control of the regular run (I think.)

Like, how much of RIP was DC, how much was Morrison?

[ledfloyd]

I guess the better example would've been to ask about his current Batman, although that has become its own beast now, as Daniel is in control of the regular run (I think.)

Like, how much of RIP was DC, how much was Morrison?
i would imagine morrison pitched it to DC and they told him to run with it. though it had to work with final crisis. but he was writing that. i would guess it's more of a hassle if you're doing a like 6 issue run on a marvel book and there's a big event approaching and everything has to tie in to the run preceding yours and the one following yours.

[megladon8]

I've been meaning to read more ABC comics.

[Acapelli]

hey guys comics are pretty good right

[megladon8]

hey guys comics are pretty good right


They're for kids.

With that in mind, they're OK if you're looking for an adolescent power fantasy.

[number8]

I guess the better example would've been to ask about his current Batman, although that has become its own beast now, as Daniel is in control of the regular run (I think.)

Like, how much of RIP was DC, how much was Morrison?

Not really a better example, since Morrison and Geoff Johns were basically steering DC for the past few years. :lol:

Morrison pitched RIP, that's why he was able to tie it into Final Crisis and the aftermath and all that. He was running the show and DC let him, because the writer-publisher relationship is very similar to director-studio. If they trust you, you can get away with a lot. WB gave Nolan free reign with Batman, but he still couldn't show Two-Face raping Jim Gordon in the mouth, for example. They still have the final say, no matter what.

This is if you're a superstar director like Nolan (or superstar writer like Morrison) and you're running the show. The trouble with a shared universe like Marvel and DC is that you have one or two writers taking the lead and the others have to follow, or you have an editor who comes up with an idea and instructs the writers to follow them. Sometimes this means having your book compromised by events/books by bigger writers, or sometimes this just means being told what the status quo has to be.

An example of the former is what happened to Dwayne McDuffie's disastrous JLA run, where he would set up certain storylines only to be told that he can't do it because someone else is doing something else with the character, or someone else is going to resolve it in another book, or a big event book is going to make it impossible. Then being told that certain characters or plots are off-limits. He ended up having to write a JLA book full of C-list heroes because they wouldn't let him have the big seven. It's moronic.

An example of the latter would be when Adam Beechen got the gig writing Robin. DC basically told him, "Hey, Batgirl is going to be evil and crazy now and he's going to be Robin's nemesis on the book. Go do that." He wasn't given a reason, or why they want this to happen, and there's absolutely no set-up for this. So Beechen did the best he could to make this work, but of course it came up short because the decision didn't make any sense in the first place, at least not without a ton of gradual build-up.

[number8]

From the horses' mouths, if you're curious:


(regarding the Injustice League) I'd originally intended for that story to run 8 issues, but it had to be cut short for Suicide Run, so I made up a new secret Luthor plot that tied into the dangling Per Degaton plot from Brad's run, but it turned out that Geoff already had plans to wrap that up, so I've come up with a third Luthor plot, but I'm not sure when I'll get back to it, as I'm fairly tightly plotted for the next couple of years. I will get to it though, promise.

I still think the multiverse is off-limits to me, along with time travel and a couple more areas that other DCU titles are focusing on. If that changes, I'll definitely pitch a road trip through some of the 52.

Looking ahead, the line-wide continuity is going to eventually line up for a more traditional JLA, but we're not there yet. At the moment, none of the big seven are available. Beyond that, The Hawks, Green Arrow, both Atoms, Captain Marvel and almost everyone I think of as either a big gun, or a traditional JLA favorite are likewise not available.

Final Crisis and other events left me without access to any of the characters that I want on the team. I couldn't just have everyone disappear mid-arc, so I had it happen on camera. Losing the big guns was a problem for me, so I decided to make it a problem for Black Canary.

there are three current members of the League I wish weren't on it.

I've had virtually no input into the composition of JLA. It's DC Comics' flagship book. They tell me who to put on the team, based on their needs elsewhere in the universe, and I do it. I believe I had influence in getting rid of Red Tornado, but even there I was forced to put him back in his body about two years before I had planned to.


McDuffie ended being fired off the book for revealing all this.


You know, I never got into it with them as to the reasoning behind why they wanted to make this change. I wasn't privy to those conversations. I guess, probably, as a new writer coming to a book, I didn't want to rock the boat or ask a lot of questions. I just dove in and did it.

They didn't present me with a rationale as to why Cassandra was going to change, or a motivating factor. That was left for me to come up with and them to approve. And we did that. But as far as to why the editors and writers and whoever else made the decision decided that was a good direction, I honestly couldn't answer.

[Sven]

Interesting, 8. Thanks.

[EyesWideOpen]

So wait a second here. You're admitting that DC wants to throw a little smear in a finished book by publishing unnecessary and most likely frustrating sequels with the sole purpose of making mad money (since that's how publishing works), and you don't understand why Alan Moore is against it?

If the answer is yes, discussion is over.

Of course I understand why he is against it, creator integrity and all that. What I don't understand is how he doesn't understand why DC is for it. He says it's because they are out of ideas which has nothing to do with it. It's not like they said were going to only make Watchmen sequels from now on. It's a valuable property that they would like to make more money off of. I personally don't want any more Watchmen stuff but do I understand that DC is in the business of making money and they do want more of course.

The same reason people will hound J.K. Rowling to make another Harry Potter book her whole life or Stephanie Meyer another Twilight book. They know these will be instant massive sellers it doesn't matter to them if the series had a logical conclusion or not.

[Sven]

Just read the Mary issue of Transmet, which struck me as being exceptionally good. The series is very funny, sometimes a little much, and it repeats panels with a saddening frequency (something about it suggests a counterargument to Spider's insistence on being told the truth). Still, I like it a lot so far, and the aforementioned issue I just read is excellent science-fiction/commentary, with some wonderfully atmospheric illustrations. I wish Ellis would scale back, as he did here, on Spider's rants. Not in their violence, which is entertaining. But the strings of profanities and insults are becoming samey.

Great universe building which has so far amassed quite a bit of momentum. Each issue (I should say "chapter" since I'm reading the trades) concludes perfectly.

[number8]

Ah, Transmet. I wish I could read it over again.

Wait, I can.

[Grouchy]

Of course I understand why he is against it, creator integrity and all that. What I don't understand is how he doesn't understand why DC is for it. He says it's because they are out of ideas which has nothing to do with it. It's not like they said were going to only make Watchmen sequels from now on. It's a valuable property that they would like to make more money off of. I personally don't want any more Watchmen stuff but do I understand that DC is in the business of making money and they do want more of course.

The same reason people will hound J.K. Rowling to make another Harry Potter book her whole life or Stephanie Meyer another Twilight book. They know these will be instant massive sellers it doesn't matter to them if the series had a logical conclusion or not.
Well, ok, then we do understand each other.

His claim of them not having any ideas of their own is obviously rude and meant as mockery. But it rings true to me, even if they don't need to survive on Watchmen alone. I don't think we have to accept so lightly that artistic endeavors the size of DC have to settle for easy bucks just because they can make them, and therefore I give the high five to Moore and his rants. It's the reason regular Disney sucks these days, and most Hollywood movies just don't know how to handle it anymore. It's a problem.

I simply want to go watch a big-bucks Hollywood action movie these days and have it come up with something as exciting as this:

http://filmforno.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/1mmd.jpg

And today I saw The Expendables.

[Sven]

Read all 14 issues of Batman and Robin again last night. Another industry-specific question occurred to me:

Artist/writer collaborations... are they more often the result of coordination? assignment? choice? On something like The Return of Bruce Wayne, do you think that Morrison has a specific artist in mind for every issue? Or were they assigned the project? I'm sure much of it is coordinated, given how frequently he works with the same person, but reading the comments in the 52 trades, it sounds like some of the time, if not a lot, the company will assign artists to projects often regardless of the artists' strengths.

I'm so ignorant of the practice of comic publishing... I often feel like I need to think about these companies like movie studios rather than publishing houses. I also think I'm thinking it's more complicated than it actually is.