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View Full Version : Brave (Mark Andrews & Brenda Chapman)



EyesWideOpen
06-23-2012, 12:58 AM
imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1217209/)

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc261/gothamcentral79/brave-movie-poster-4.jpg

Pop Trash
06-23-2012, 01:10 AM
Wats?

Watashi
06-23-2012, 01:22 AM
What?

Spinal
06-23-2012, 02:57 AM
This movie's in Japanese?

Fezzik
06-23-2012, 02:59 AM
I liked this, but its definitely a lesser Pixar.

There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but except for the animation, there's nothing really noteworthy either.

There's some good moments, but I think Pixar's creativity might have been a little handcuffed by the fact that this was an adaptation.

It was missing that special something.

Good, not great.

EyesWideOpen
06-23-2012, 03:29 AM
This movie's in Japanese?

I liked that poster the best.

Pop Trash
06-23-2012, 04:15 AM
What?

I figured you'd have seen this twice already and figured out exactly where it fits in the Pixar pantheon.

Watashi
06-23-2012, 05:43 AM
I figured you'd have seen this twice already and figured out exactly where it fits in the Pixar pantheon.
No.... I'm in no rush. I'll get it to sometime next week.

B-side
06-23-2012, 06:12 AM
Pretty sad when not even Wats is excited to see this movie.

Pop Trash
06-23-2012, 06:28 AM
Pretty sad when not even Wats is excited to see this movie.

Right. I'm thinkin' Beasts of the Southern Wild will be a better Brave than Brave, but we'll see.

MadMan
06-23-2012, 08:20 AM
Right. I'm thinkin' Beasts of the Southern Wild will be a better Brave than Brave, but we'll see.I'm getting that feeling, too. I still want to see both, however.

Watashi
06-23-2012, 04:12 PM
Right. I'm thinkin' Beasts of the Southern Wild will be a better Brave than Brave, but we'll see.
I don't see what those two films have in common.

Russ
06-23-2012, 04:20 PM
I don't see what those two films have in common.
I read a spoiler for Beasts, I think I can guess.

EyesWideOpen
06-23-2012, 11:37 PM
This didn't feel like a Pixar movie. It was missing their high level of storytelling. It felt more like a Dreamworks picture. The animation was fantastic but everything else was just average.

Thirdmango
06-25-2012, 04:17 AM
It was decent, fun, I'm glad I saw it when I did. I agree that the story telling wasn't as good but I really liked the individual characters in the family. Each one had a good distinction to them. I think I liked the first half of the movie a bit more then the second half.

The short before hand was fantastic, probably my favorite of the before movie shorts I've seen so far.

dreamdead
06-25-2012, 12:26 PM
A very mild nay. This one almost works, but the sense of the film existing from an incomplete, or multi-, vision is apparent. The narrative seems fractured shortly after the mother changes, the conclusion overly obvious and lacking of any real ramification, and though the mother/daughter sentiment is wonderful, narrative beats throughout their arcs seem to happen too quickly, as though the characters are just the sketches of characters and don't exist as anything other than ciphers of difference.

Some fine moments throughout, but it just never ties together. Or, rather, it ties together so much that there's nothing in the way of real humanity here.

number8
06-25-2012, 12:46 PM
I rather appreciated the spartan story that doesn't turn it into a save-the-kingdom epic and instead kept the focus on the family drama. A studio other than Pixar might have been tempted to have a big battle scene at the end.

The mother-daughter bonding was handled excellently, and alleviated a concern I had. It was seeming like Merida was going to be made a modern role model simply by being tomboyish and relating more to a father figure, almost derisively treating the traditional "princess" model. But the circumvention of that, with her recognizing her mother's useful feminine qualities, was nice.

The best part is still La Luna, though. What a masterpiece.

eternity
06-26-2012, 01:56 AM
I don't understand any of these Dreamworks comparisons...it's certainly darker than any Dreamworks film I've seen.

I thought it was incredible up until the point where the queen becomes a bear, then you could really see the wheels turning to get to the right plot points at the right moment by any means possible, even if it clashed with the flow of events. The character's actions and motivations were convenient and unnatural.

I still liked it quite a bit, though.

EyesWideOpen
06-26-2012, 02:11 AM
I didn't find it dark in the slightest.

ledfloyd
06-26-2012, 05:42 AM
the dreamworks comparisons make sense to me when i think about the reliance on broad humor: the mooning, the pantsless men, the cleavage dive. otherwise, i find this to feel like a disney film, even more so than it does a pixar film. it creates something of an odd disconnect but i still think it's a relatively good film. it's nothing special, but i can't say too much negative about it either.

the friend i saw it with LOVED it. she was really impressed with how well and how subtly they dealt with celtic myth. she picked up on a lot of things that went over my head, that i've since forgotten. apparently the witch's crow and the one clan's blue tattoos both had special significance, among other things.

i unfortunately missed the short, but i'm sure it will turn up online sooner than later.

Sxottlan
06-26-2012, 09:22 AM
It was good. First solidly good mainstream film that I've seen since The Avengers. But no, it's not top shelf Pixar. Pacing is a little weird. It felt like there was quite a wait for the plot to get going; for Merida's character growth to happen.

The tone of the witch scene felt like a total miscalculation. It felt like it was from another movie. A zany wacky comedy suddenly breaks out here and it's jarring.

For example the pizza delivery truck from the Toy Story films makes a cameo in this 13th century setting. And look, potion choices act like a voice mail directory.

As Berardinelli pointed out, there's no clear villain. The one bear doesn't really do it for me.

And yet I liked all the characters, although I don't understand where the mother's change of heart comes from. Merida's hair alone has character. It's a triumph of art direction and animation. And the animated landscapes are pretty gorgeous. There's a moment when Merida is laying down and covering her face and I could have sworn I was looking at a real person.

And at least the post-credit scene addresses what I thought had been a big plot hole in the film. ;)

Fezzik
06-26-2012, 02:27 PM
And at least the post-credit scene addresses what I thought had been a big plot hole in the film. ;)

Gah. There was a post credit scene? What was it?

Arthur Seaton
06-26-2012, 08:27 PM
Pretty sad when not even Wats is excited to see this movie.
I know. Dafuq???

Bosco B Thug
06-26-2012, 11:17 PM
I thought this was superb, and completely of Pixar's calibre. I suppose the story isn't groundbreaking, but it's intelligent and it's morals/world-views far above cookie-cutter. Scene construction was completely on par in sophistication with Pixar's other films. I also thought there was very little to complain about concerning gratuitous comedy (and I'm someone who will target Finding Nemo for such things), with the main exception being the "voice mail delivery" gag, which was lame.

Anyway, very-close-to loved it.

Also, this may discredit me considering what I'm reading here, but the short La Luna was not for me. Nay. If anyone wants to explain their love for it, I'm kind of interested.

Watashi
06-27-2012, 05:20 AM
So I saw this.

For the first 20-30 or so minutes, I was loving this and in my head I was "what the fuck critics?". Then the scene with the witch came and this film fell apart fast. Hell, the whole witch character was entirely pointless. They could have easily made the curse come from some other supernatural source. The pacing of that scene was terrible. Merida meets the witch and automatically knows what she wants and doesn't think twice about what she's doing.

Hell, the entire second half when it went all Brother Bear troubled me especially the way to "break" the curse. It felt so haphazard.

It's tough, because I love the family dynamics and Merida is such a great character in herself. The scenes with her Mother Bear were often quite touching. Some of the Dreamworksy humor didn't bother me. I actually liked a lot of the gags.

If I was in a fouler mood, I would probably nay this, but... but... it's Pixar.

Also... dat hair.

Bosco B Thug
06-27-2012, 05:52 AM
Aw, the woodcut shop scene was gorgeously detailed and hilarious.

I ruffled a little bit at Merida's vague specifications regarding a spell, but I bought into it in the end.

Dead & Messed Up
06-27-2012, 05:59 AM
I actually thought the reverse of Watashi. I thought the opening twenty to thirty minutes were way too fast-paced and noisy and busy, but once the mother turned into a bear, I really enjoyed the slow-down for her mime act and bonding sessions. The rest of the film was solid, although the witch and the villainous bear felt like remnants of an early draft nobody was able to completely excise. They function, but they don't feel vivid.

Watashi
06-27-2012, 06:02 AM
Also, I liked La Luna, but didn't love it. It was cute, but nothing more.

Sxottlan
06-27-2012, 07:33 AM
Gah. There was a post credit scene? What was it?

The guard with the half mustache (halfstache?) wakes up at the gate to find the witch's raven perched on the magic broom. He floats a invoice to the guard and asks him to sign it and take delivery of all of the witch's woodcarvings. They're all bundled up on a cart behind him. It was kind of cute.

Robby P
06-28-2012, 02:40 PM
I thought this was dull, frivolous and repetitive. Not to mention completely recycled from just about every Disney movie we've seen before. Pixar has been awfully disappointing lately. Their short movies have become far more interesting and enjoyable than their dragged-out features.

number8
06-28-2012, 09:43 PM
By the way, is it just me or did the witch look exactly like the one in Spirited Away?

Mysterious Dude
06-29-2012, 12:24 AM
A lot of people on the Pixar team are big Miyazaki fanboys, so it wouldn't surprise me if they made an homage.

I've seen it mentioned that there's no clear villain. I haven't seen the film, but I suspect that's another attempt to emulate Miyazaki.

Pop Trash
06-30-2012, 08:37 AM
This was mostly dullsville. I can't believe a lot of this got past the story development phase. Even the animation wasn't that great. I kept waiting for a transcendent Pixar moment where something is thoroughly smart or moving but...no.

Watashi
06-30-2012, 09:09 AM
Even the animation wasn't that great.

You shouldn't post stuff that you don't anything about.

Pop Trash
06-30-2012, 09:26 AM
You shouldn't post stuff that you don't anything about.

And you do? Can we have a link to the wonderful shorts you've made with Maya?

KK2.0
06-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Haven't watched the film yet but I also find hard to believe that the animation is anything but flawless technically, maybe it's something else that bothered you Pop Trash, perhaps there's nothing that stands out as particularly impressive about the acting or mise en scene?

Maybe Merida's hair stole the attention? ^^

Pop Trash
06-30-2012, 08:34 PM
I just didn't find it as aesthetically pleasing as Ratatouille, Wall-E, Up, etc. beyond perhaps Merida's oft-talked about hair. But if Pixar was spending years developing working hair, perhaps they are missing the forest for the trees.

Kurosawa Fan
06-30-2012, 11:32 PM
On the fence about this one. It has charm, a warm and fuzzy story, and some decent humor. Still, it's fairly unremarkable in every aspect, animation included. Instantly forgettable, which is okay considering some of the kids films I've been dragged to that I wish I could forget, but disappointing considering Pixar's history. Still, the thought that I was able to use this film to avoid having to see Madagascar 3 makes it a positive experience overall. Fair or not, that's where I land with this one.

Saya
07-01-2012, 03:57 AM
This was disappointing. The story didn't grab me like previous Pixar movies and I found most of the characters not very interesting, with the exception of Merida of course. Character design wise I thought it felt quite similar to How to Train Your Dragon. The setting / world where the story takes place in also felt so unimaginative for a Pixar movie. The animation was ok. I thought Merida's hair was amazing, but beside that I can't really mention something that made me wow.

La Luna was cute.

megladon8
07-02-2012, 08:39 PM
In the theatre waiting for this to begin. We decided on a whim to see it in 3D. First movie I've seen in 3D since James Cameron's Smurfs in Space.

Ivan Drago
07-02-2012, 09:13 PM
And you do? Can we have a link to the wonderful shorts you've made with Maya?

I used Maya when I took two years of 3D Animation in college, and it's definitely not the best animation program in the world. Still, I learned enough about the animation process from it.

Pop Trash
07-02-2012, 10:06 PM
I used Maya when I took two years of 3D Animation in college, and it's definitely not the best animation program in the world. Still, I learned enough about the animation process from it.

That was more of a dig at Wats' Animation Expert on High persona than anything. I don't know much about Maya other than I have friends in animation school, and it still seems to be the standard program they use (I imagine, like Final Cut Pro and non-linear editing, if you learn Maya you can jump over to other CG animation programs fairly easily).

megladon8
07-03-2012, 12:23 AM
This was good. Agreed with those who say it isn't "top tier Pixar", but really, what does that even mean? Even a film of this caliber pretty much eclipses most everything else in visual splendor, rhythm and pacing, and great, memorable characters.

While there are those who say the film's greatest downfall is its simplicity (that it's really just a typical Disney film princess story), I thought that was kind of "the point". This was that kind of simple parable as told with the visual panache and clever wit of the Pixar studio. The characters are balanced (the mother would have undoubtedly been more of a conniving bitch in the Disney version, and the daughter's self-righteousness would have been justified).

Plus, it took us away to a setting and culture not often explored in films of any kind, let alone mainstream family fare.

Did it have its flaws? Certainly. The witch felt a little tacked on and unnecessary, and there were perhaps a few too many gags that felt more Dreamworks-y than Pixar clever. But it was all accomplished with such pure heart I couldn't really bring myself to fault it too heavily.

I thought this was great.

And 8 was not exaggerating at all in describing La Luna as a "masterpiece". What a beautiful short that was.

Kurosawa Fan
07-03-2012, 01:12 AM
Yeah, La Luna might be my favorite Pixar short, which is high praise, as I tend to love their short films.

Bosco B Thug
07-03-2012, 01:24 AM
While there are those who say the film's greatest downfall is its simplicity (that it's really just a typical Disney film princess story), I thought that was kind of "the point". This was that kind of simple parable as told with the visual panache and clever wit of the Pixar studio.

Plus, it took us away to a setting and culture not often explored in films of any kind, let alone mainstream family fare. :pritch:

Also, general comment: I think the comparisons to Dreamworks are becoming increasingly off-base. At least Pixar's comedic move here, despite unevenness, put its concentration towards situational humor, and didn't have to depend on talking animal quips and such.


And 8 was not exaggerating at all in describing La Luna as a "masterpiece". What a beautiful short that was. *breaks joyous and taboo-breaking male-to-male dance*

Well, I've got assholey Brave-review Walter Chaw on my side. The thing made no sense.

number8
07-03-2012, 02:18 AM
The thing made no sense.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120201175507/fantendo/images/thumb/4/48/You_dont_say.png/453px-You_dont_say.png

Bosco B Thug
07-03-2012, 02:35 AM
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120201175507/fantendo/images/thumb/4/48/You_dont_say.png/453px-You_dont_say.png Yeah. Kid should've died from his fall off the giant star (that apparently is a completely unprecedented event). And it shatters into just tinier stars. Jesus almighty I better stop talking about it.

Watashi
07-04-2012, 05:14 PM
Jesus. Time to go to Disneyland to.... stalk Merida.

lv8lTMD-AkU

KK2.0
07-05-2012, 02:12 AM
That was more of a dig at Wats' Animation Expert on High persona than anything. I don't know much about Maya other than I have friends in animation school, and it still seems to be the standard program they use (I imagine, like Final Cut Pro and non-linear editing, if you learn Maya you can jump over to other CG animation programs fairly easily).

I use Maya as my main animation tool, nearly all companies i've worked with use it. It's kind of a jack of all trades, and not all the things it tries to do are the best of it's kind, but it's a slightly open platform that allows for a lot of customization as well.


Back to topic, that youtube video links to a few other Meridas from Disneyland but that one is definitely the cutest. And those animatronic bears are adorable.

Rowland
07-08-2012, 07:05 AM
Thanks for the lowered expectations, mildly favorable but lukewarm collective consensuses of Match-Cut and the critical community, as well as the underwhelming marketing that now appears remarkably canny in retrospect, because I found myself surprisingly engaged and impressed by this. Not so much with La Luna however, I'm with Bosco there.

Watashi
07-08-2012, 07:19 AM
I'm still waiting for Bosco to explain why the vehement distaste for La Luna. I've liked every single Pixar short (even Boundin'). I think Lifted and Partly Cloudy are my favorites.

Spinal
07-08-2012, 03:35 PM
1. Presto
2. Boundin'
3. Every other Pixar short
4. Partly Cloudy

Dead & Messed Up
07-08-2012, 04:58 PM
"La Luna" was pretty and had a nice nostalgic feel to it, but beyond that, I'd agree with Spinal. "Presto" is much better.

Bosco B Thug
07-08-2012, 06:18 PM
I'm still waiting for Bosco to explain why the vehement distaste for La Luna. Well, my complaints are right on the surface... It's sentimental and generic. Anything it wishes to say about the hard, day-to-night work of humble ethnic families and the ingenuity of the future is killed by the fatuity of its contrived, pat premise and the even more fatuous execution of it. Obviously the makers of it were too pleased with their story that they couldn't avoid the scene of the wide-eyed little boy falling in slo-mo amidst a rain of plastic night lights. And I thought it didn't look like a Pixar film at all - the animation was detail-less and ugly.

Presto is excellent, this is rudderless.

Raiders
07-08-2012, 08:18 PM
2. Boundin'

Ew.

Day & Night is easily the best one and one of the finest pieces of animation ever.

Mysterious Dude
07-08-2012, 08:28 PM
Geri's Game > all

Rowland
07-08-2012, 08:33 PM
Day & Night is spectacular. I hated Partly Cloudy, that was worse than La Luna, which was at least inoffensive.

number8
07-08-2012, 08:44 PM
Spinal and Rowland are right. Partly Cloudy is a piece of shit. And offensive.

Watashi
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Spinal and Rowland are right. Partly Cloudy is a piece of shit. And offensive.
Not this shit again.

I can't seriously believe people think Pixar is trying to promote that babies come from storks.

Gizmo
07-08-2012, 09:25 PM
I agree with most assessments of the issues with Brave. I think I'm on the yay side, but barely. It was cute and not as raunchy as Dreamworks tends to be, so better for the little one. Nothing particularly impressive from the story, that fell into a very predictable final act.

I also didn't care for the short beforehand, found it forgettable, in fact had forgotten it until reading through this thread. I thought it was pretty corny in general, and annoyed me that the humans didn't say anything, just grunted along.

Watashi
07-08-2012, 09:29 PM
I thought it was pretty corny in general, and annoyed me that the humans didn't say anything, just grunted along.

This is a weird complaint considering no one has ever spoken anything in any Pixar short.

Russ
07-08-2012, 09:32 PM
I'm with you, Wats. Partly Cloudy was very good (not their best, tho). If it's offensive, then I guess similar WB toons that it paid tribute to were also offensive.


RV7sycGA0Lw

I think not.

Watashi
07-08-2012, 09:46 PM
Don't forget about Dumbo.

Winston*
07-08-2012, 09:59 PM
This is a weird complaint considering no one has ever spoken anything in any Pixar short.

Except for Boundin'.

Wryan
07-08-2012, 11:05 PM
This charmed me more than Up did, that's for sure, but this really was very simple, and only sparingly to its credit. I have a feeling that one of the big reasons why the marketing hid the main narrative twist is that once you see it, you pretty instantly know where everything is going to go. Yup, this happens. Yup, that one happens. You just check the beats and moments off as you go through it. It's done well, because it's Pixar, but perhaps I wanted a different story. Mordu could have been used better. He's terrifying. But would using him more have been the obvious route? (More/less obvious than what we did get?) I dunno. I loved the setting and animation generally. Fantastic voice acting, and there's some great music here. The dialogue at the showing I was at was terribly muddy, unfortunately, but I got the gist of things.

"La Luna" was good, too, but not as good as some other shorts.

Two Pixar in a row that didn't quite hit it out of the park for me. Am I setting too high a bar? I didn't see Cars 2. I don't think I will.

EDIT:
The fight between Mama Bear and Mordu didn't seem to leave so much as a scratch on Elinor when she changed back. Seems too easy. She got knocked around hard in that fight.

Wryan
07-08-2012, 11:12 PM
Also, someone posted this great poster on Reddit.

http://i.imgur.com/QBXWa.jpg

Rowland
07-08-2012, 11:40 PM
Not this shit again.

I can't seriously believe people think Pixar is trying to promote that babies come from storks.For what it's worth, my primary criticism concerning Partly Cloudy had to do with what struck me as an almost mean-spirited sadism in the short's treatment of the stork. I get what Pixar was going for, but I merely found it unpleasant.

Russ
07-08-2012, 11:43 PM
I get what Pixar was going for, but I merely found it unpleasant.
Rowland, I don't mean to come off as antagonistic, but what did you feel they were going for? (cheap laughs?)

Rowland
07-08-2012, 11:54 PM
Rowland, I don't mean to come off as antagonistic, but what did you feel they were going for? (cheap laughs?)No, that doesn't come across as antagonistic. I was kinda asking for it with my bluntly declarative phrasing. To be honest, I don't remember the specifics of the short all that well, but I presume they were going for something about necessary sacrifices for the common good, and empathy for the pain one must endure when being different, or something. Whatever the case, I recall feeling that it made the most sense to me as a metaphor for enduring an abusive relationship, which were hardly the feelings I expected to take away from a Pixar short.

Russ
07-09-2012, 12:23 AM
That's an interesting interpretation.

The common good to which you refer is, of course, the successful delivery of the offspring, and the sacrifices that are incurred are indeed metaphors for those struggles and difficulties that are inherent in the birthing process. I don't view the disparity of one vessel's lighter load (puppies and kittens) against that of another's (crocodiles and porcupines) as anything more than the crapshoot that is life; meaning, one hopes they are dealt the best draw of the cards but, if not, they make do with what they have. Kinda indicative of the the real world, right? Perseverence is a major theme, I would think. And the predominant message of the short would seem to reside in the viewers' attitude and perspective (not saying much since there seems to be a fair amount of disparity).

I don't know. I don't see it as abuse so much as reality.

Sven
07-09-2012, 01:51 AM
Pixar shorts: all you need to know

Boundin', good.
Partly Cloudy, bad.
Watch the other ones if you want.

Dead & Messed Up
07-09-2012, 02:39 AM
I have journeyed to the internet and returned to agree with the "Partly Cloudy" haters. Kind of a douche move for the cloud to not change, given that he's the one mucking things up.

Winston*
07-09-2012, 03:07 AM
I think the main problem with Partly Cloudy is that there are shots of the cute animals and babies being delivered, but there none of the main stork delivering the electric eel/ porcupine/crocodile to grateful parents. Something like that would've validated the cloud's position.

Watashi
07-09-2012, 05:40 AM
That's an interesting interpretation.

The common good to which you refer is, of course, the successful delivery of the offspring, and the sacrifices that are incurred are indeed metaphors for those struggles and difficulties that are inherent in the birthing process. I don't view the disparity of one vessel's lighter load (puppies and kittens) against that of another's (crocodiles and porcupines) as anything more than the crapshoot that is life; meaning, one hopes they are dealt the best draw of the cards but, if not, they make do with what they have. Kinda indicative of the the real world, right? Perseverence is a major theme, I would think. And the predominant message of the short would seem to reside in the viewers' attitude and perspective (not saying much since there seems to be a fair amount of disparity).

I don't know. I don't see it as abuse so much as reality.
Yes. Yes. Yes!

I never saw it as abuse for cheap laughs. The gags themselves are just slapstick and not to be anything deeper.

Grouchy
07-19-2012, 03:16 AM
So this isn't as brilliant as other Pixar films (The Incredibles) but it's still state of the art entertainment. "The plot is predictable" is basically the only valid criticism I see against it. Everything else just works perfectly - the setting is awesome, the gags are solid and the animation knocks it out of the ballpark.

And La Luna was beautiful.

Complaining about Brave when there are so many clumsily put together movies for kids out there seems irrational to me.

megladon8
07-19-2012, 03:37 AM
So this isn't as brilliant as other Pixar films (The Incredibles) but it's still state of the art entertainment. "The plot is predictable" is basically the only valid criticism I see against it. Everything else just works perfectly - the setting is awesome, the gags are solid and the animation knocks it out of the ballpark.

And La Luna was beautiful.

Complaining about Brave when there are so many clumsily put together movies for kids out there seems irrational to me.


Yeah, pretty much.

StanleyK
07-19-2012, 05:08 PM
I didn't care for this at all. Pixar's output is usually reliably solid, but here it feels like they weren't particularly invested in the material. The characters are generic and unmemorable; the main relationship between Merida and her mother doesn't elicit any emotional connection; the comic relief is bafflingly unfunny- 'people being hit' does not constitute humor. Most of all, everything seemed dumbed down to an unreasonable level, every point too painstakingly belabored. I posit that a movie has thoroughly failed when it features not one, but two scenes where someone counts to a number as low as 3 or 4 out loud, on their fingers. What possible purpose does that accomplish? How stupid are these characters/do they think the audience is? Some disgraceful shit.

Mr. McGibblets
07-19-2012, 05:50 PM
The intended emotional reconciliation scene just doesn't work at all. Both mother and daughter are supposed to be in a desperate hurry to get the tapestry and need to avoid being caught on pain of death (for the mother at least) and yet at that moment they become distracted by the future plans for royal marriages in their kingdom. The mortal danger is just so much more important that anything else going on right then is a silly distraction.

Bosco B Thug
07-19-2012, 11:55 PM
The intended emotional reconciliation scene just doesn't work at all. Both mother and daughter are supposed to be in a desperate hurry to get the tapestry and need to avoid being caught on pain of death (for the mother at least) and yet at that moment they become distracted by the future plans for royal marriages in their kingdom. The mortal danger is just so much more important that anything else going on right then is a silly distraction. ... Things were less urgent at that moment, time-wise... and something or other tip-off is made that the appeasement of the tribes is an equal necessity as getting to the tapestry (something about how the men'll "all kill each other"... if a woman doesn't step in...).

transmogrifier
11-10-2012, 09:03 AM
Easily Pixar's most featureless film to date (though I haven't seen Cars 2), it has a stunningly formulaic first 40 minutes, with few laughs and nothing surprising. Once the narrative finally decides to do something unexpected (though the actual mechanics of it is kind of perplexing: they couldn't think of anything else more interesting or thematically resonant than "Oh, change my Mum to change my fate"? But once the bear appears, at least there is a little bit of heart, but it all feels very fabricated and weirdly weightless

Dukefrukem
11-14-2012, 08:13 PM
This was huge letdown. I have to admire them for trying something new, but there's not a lot of charm that is usually apparent in Pixar movies.

Henry Gale
11-15-2012, 12:06 AM
Having watched it about a week ago, its imagery and some of its more clever gags and atmospheric set-piece mechanics have stayed with me, but not sure how much else will for the foreseeable future. I think the biggest problem is just that so much needs to rest on the conflict with Merida and the mother, and ultimately the first section of the movie does more to showcase the bond between her and her father instead. When the story turns the way it does, it feels like something it wasn't really meant to, especially since the King is mostly sidelined.

I almost feel like a better way of going about the story would have been for her father to be turned into a bear by someone who had some sort of a grudge with him (and I guess the triplets are turned again too, though their transformations seemed to be for comic relief instead of given the same amount of scary weight as the mother's potential fate in the final film), and Merida having work with her mother and through their differences to turn him back before he stays that way for good. If he's a bear, they'd have to rule the kingdom, so you could add some stuff about them having to accept that if things go wrong too.
But I did enjoy it, it breezes by, and looks gorgeous nearly the whole way through. Having said that, it does feel like it'll always remain one of Pixar's most minor works, though still not an outright failure like Cars 2. It's just a shame it does feel like an animated film where the director left halfway through its production, and though it's not entirely gutted by that, the finished product comes off like two fragmented visions with their own strengths and weaknesses battling for screen-time.

So given the choice, either for recommended viewing or potential awards season glory, I hope people go with ParaNorman instead.

Ezee E
11-29-2012, 06:02 AM
Snore...

We got it. The hair is beautiful. But there's nothing much beyond that. I rather enjoyed the first 20-30 minutes, even if it seemed like a combination of everything Disney did in the past... The witch even worked for me, except, after that... Just a snooze.

Sven
11-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Oh, right. I watched about a third of this over the holiday and thought it was pretty stupid.

Spinal
11-29-2012, 07:01 PM
Only Cars 2 was less successful financially when inflation is taken into account. (http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises/chart/?id=pixar.htm)

Although it's still one of the top 5 moneymakers of the year, so it can hardly be called a failure in that regard.

Watashi
11-29-2012, 07:14 PM
You know it's bad when I can't even muster any effort to defend this film.

Rowland
11-29-2012, 09:43 PM
I didn't love this or anything, but it easily qualifies for me as one of the year's most underrated releases. It's sure as shit superior to Sugar Rush, in any case.

transmogrifier
11-29-2012, 10:14 PM
I still don't get that most people seem to prefer the first half to the second, when to me the first half seems almost endless with its unfunny jokes and cliched "I don't want to be an X, I want to be me!" storyline. At least the second half has a bear.

Wryan
11-29-2012, 11:50 PM
I still don't get that most people seem to prefer the first half to the second, when to me the first half seems almost endless with its unfunny jokes and cliched "I don't want to be an X, I want to be me!" storyline. At least the second half has a bear.

Bitch it has five bears. And one of 'em is a giant weapon-impacted psycho villain tank bear.

number8
11-30-2012, 03:40 PM
Bitch it has five bears. And one of 'em is a giant weapon-impacted psycho villain tank bear.

Who is actually a mad god who killed his god brothers!

(Did that happen? I've already forgotten most of the story)