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ledfloyd
04-30-2012, 07:22 AM
so yeah, we need this thread.

the first episode was good, the second episode was great. this one wasn't quite great but pretty much cemented the fact that i'm in love with this show.

Henry Gale
04-30-2012, 08:44 AM
Yup. By the end of this episode, I was kinda blown away how far my opinion of the show had come in just three episodes.

The storylines in it didn't necessarily tackle anything unheard of for a modern comedy, but it dealt with everything in such spectacularly understated ways, making it all feel that much more genuine and hilarious. I did not think a scene with a character tweeting on their laptop could end with that sort of emotional payoff. The ending was absolute perfection.

Raiders
04-30-2012, 12:43 PM
Yeah, this third episode was easily my favorite so far. I'm glad I stuck it out. The emotion in it felt more genuine, for whatever reason, than in the first two episodes. It was also a little funnier, but I'm getting the sense this is a show that I may find works in spite of its humor for me.

Irish
04-30-2012, 04:02 PM
You three are fucking crazy.

:-P

amberlita
04-30-2012, 04:56 PM
You three are fucking crazy.

:-P

Your father is gay.

number8
04-30-2012, 08:04 PM
Renewed for a second season already! YES!

Lucky
04-30-2012, 08:12 PM
Your father is gay.

:lol:

Well done. I knew how that scene was gonna play as soon as that guy opened his mouth.

number8
04-30-2012, 08:14 PM
Is it going to be a ritual now that whenever Irish criticizes a comedy show, we just quote insults from the show at him? I did that in the Community thread and I wasn't really sure if he actually got the joke. :lol:

amberlita
04-30-2012, 08:57 PM
Is it going to be a ritual now that whenever Irish criticizes a comedy show, we just quote insults from the show at him? I did that in the Community thread and I wasn't really sure if he actually got the joke. :lol:

Well if nothing else I knew it'd be a way of figuring out whether or not he'd seen this third episode or was basing the opinion on disliking the first two. You still going to keep giving it a chance, Irish, or are you done at this point?

There have been some spectacular guest actor choices so far. Mike Birbiglia, Anthony somethingorother from The Book of Mormon, that guy from Lonely Island. Just awesome.

And Marnie is out of her gourd. Charlie's haircut is hot.

Lucky
04-30-2012, 09:01 PM
And Marnie is out of her gourd. Charlie's haircut is hot.

I imagine it's a case of every little thing he does will annoy her no matter what. And she won't give him a compliment to save her life. I think it's intended for us to know it looks better.

amberlita
04-30-2012, 09:10 PM
I imagine it's a case of every little thing he does will annoy her no matter what. And she won't give him a compliment to save her life. I think it's intended for us to know it looks better.

Yeah I know, but still felt it warranted mentioning. Poor Charlie.

Did anyone else catch the prior two tweets Hannah had posted prior to the one at the ending? I think one of them was to the effect of "Just poured water on a perfectly good piece of bread to keep myself from eating it. I ate it anyway, because I AM AN ANIMAL!" :lol: She does have quirky web presence.

Sycophant
04-30-2012, 09:15 PM
Goddamn, this show is great.

Sycophant
05-01-2012, 05:21 AM
Yeah I know, but still felt it warranted mentioning. Poor Charlie.

Did anyone else catch the prior two tweets Hannah had posted prior to the one at the ending? I think one of them was to the effect of "Just poured water on a perfectly good piece of bread to keep myself from eating it. I ate it anyway, because I AM AN ANIMAL!" :lol: She does have quirky web presence.

Yeah, I paused to make sure I could give those the attention they deserve. Excellent touch. Pitch fucking perfect.

Oh my god, Hannah is following 902 people and only has 26 followers. That is heartbreaking.

number8
05-01-2012, 05:38 AM
I hate using "it's so real" as a compliment because it's such a reductive and cheesy way to describe fiction, but presently I'm finding it hard to pinpoint my awe at the quality of this show any other way. It's so insanely dead-on in its characterizations of everybody that it's making me a little self-conscious and guarded watching it.

DavidSeven
05-01-2012, 06:37 AM
I really like this show. It makes me feel things.

Maybe it's authentic; maybe it's not. I just appreciate the fact that the show has its own voice and has already established totally compelling characters. I think the third episode really showed signs of how emotionally evocative this show has the potential to be. Twitter update and final dance-off was just beautiful.

ledfloyd
05-01-2012, 01:26 PM
I hate using "it's so real" as a compliment because it's such a reductive and cheesy way to describe fiction, but presently I'm finding it hard to pinpoint my awe at the quality of this show any other way. It's so insanely dead-on in its characterizations of everybody that it's making me a little self-conscious and guarded watching it.
this. i think a few people have already described it as genuine but that's about the most accurate descriptor i can think of. i find it all the more surprising because i was expecting something twee and affected like a miranda july or mumblecore film. the only weak spot i see at this point is the zosia mamet character, but i'm hoping that'll snap into focus as it goes on.

number8
05-01-2012, 02:53 PM
She seems to be the broadest character on the show conceptually right now, and I think making her a virgin puts her in over the top territory. If Dunham has a fresh take on the losing virginity story, then it might be worth it, but so far I don't see the point of it. Her mannerisms and habits are so well-realized, though. I loved her nonchalant and passe way of talking about the game show, until she discovers someone who's never seen it. That rings exceptionally true.

Irish
05-01-2012, 03:10 PM
What. The. Fuck.

The third episode was freaking fantastic. She nailed the look, the pacing, the music, the dialogue. I liked how the show doesn't really try to go for rapid fire gags, but saves the humor for a pitch-perfect line.

My only complaint is that the plot lines, such as they are, are way too contrived and trite. Every single plot here was old and tired. Gay ex, lying current, babysitter with the Dad, status seeking babe finds guy with status. Unless she's pulling a narrative rabbit out of her hat, this seems too predictable to be true.

I also think eventually she's gonna run into trouble. She's cramming a movie's sensibilities into a sitcom format, and I don't think that works well in the long term. Parts of this show smell like Clerkettes or The Sisters McMullen. Arguably, that didn't work out well for Kevin Smith or Ed Burns.

number8
05-01-2012, 04:04 PM
Release him right now before I call the cops.

Qrazy
05-01-2012, 05:19 PM
Repost of mine from the TV discussion thread.

'This show like it's characters is at it's core self-involved and lacking in nuance of characterization. Of course this is often a problem with comedy in general. It's hard to round out an individually successfully while keeping them the butt of your jokes (the men especially). That said, while I don't find the show all that interesting as a character study, a lot of the dialogue is quite funny (ex: the tale of hitting a puppy in response to hearing someone's a virgin) and it's certainly much truer to life than most other shows of it's ilk.'

I have to say I'm much less enthusiastic than the rest of you about that final dance off. It seemed like something I'd seen many times before and felt exactly like what it was, a little heart tuggy moment of female bonding.

Irish
05-02-2012, 02:43 PM
Release him right now before I call the cops.

:lol: Out of all the shows I watched over the weekend, this was by far the best one.

romantisaurusrex
05-08-2012, 04:07 AM
This last episode was my favorite.

I found the justification of the women in the office for the pervy old boss, and the arbitrary lines they draw for Heather for "self respect" really believable.

I think the show can get cutesy, but knows how to pull it off. Like this moment:
Shoshanna: Would YOU have sex with a virgin?
Jessa: Depends on the virgin.
Shoshanna: me...
Jessa: Oh, shosh. If I had a cock, it's all I'd do.

Russ
05-08-2012, 04:28 AM
Agree w/everyone who has pointed out the show's strongest suit: the knowing (and genuine) dialogue. I somewhat expect the plotting and characterizations to catch up to that high standard fairly quickly, ie, I see a lot of potential here and I hope it's not squandered.

number8
05-08-2012, 05:49 AM
She seems to be the broadest character on the show conceptually right now, and I think making her a virgin puts her in over the top territory. If Dunham has a fresh take on the losing virginity story, then it might be worth it, but so far I don't see the point of it.

Ooh, and there we go, in the latest episode. There's definitely a stigma, or at least reluctance, against virgins among sexually active men nowadays. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that Dunham would take this route. I guess I subconsciously got too used to expecting media to portray girls as preciously holding on to their virginity. Well done.

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:15 AM
Is it that she's a virgin or that she's twenty four years old and still a virgin?

Boner M
05-08-2012, 09:27 AM
Been digging it, but did anyone think the diary-song performance in ep4rang false? I hope it's not a premonition of the tone the rest of the series is gonna take.

B-side
05-08-2012, 09:53 AM
I'm really enjoying it so far.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:08 PM
Been digging it, but did anyone think the diary-song performance in ep4rang false? I hope it's not a premonition of the tone the rest of the series is gonna take.

Yes, it's ridiculous that he would play an entire set in a relatively okay manner and then cap it off with that track.

DavidSeven
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
I agree with Boner/Qrazy that the last scene seemed a little off. They've spent so much time establishing Charlie as being hopelessly and believably passive that this jump to ballsy/overtly aggressive was just kind of jarring, and maybe not in the good way. Also, Marnie's reaction didn't really seem right either. Her anger toward Hannah seemed so misplaced that it felt forced for the sake of dramatic effect.

Fortunately, the preceding scene with Hannah and Adam was written and executed brilliantly. Great stuff there. Love what they did with Shoshanna this week, too.

number8
05-08-2012, 08:14 PM
Is it that she's a virgin or that she's twenty four years old and still a virgin?

Is what?

number8
05-08-2012, 08:18 PM
I agree with Boner/Qrazy that the last scene seemed a little off. They've spent so much time establishing Charlie as being hopelessly and believably passive that this jump to ballsy/overtly aggressive was just kind of jarring, and maybe not in the good way. Also, Marnie's reaction didn't really seem right either. Her anger toward Hannah seemed so misplaced that it felt forced for the sake of dramatic effect.

Fortunately, the preceding scene with Hannah and Adam was written and executed brilliantly. Great stuff there. Love what they did with Shoshanna this week, too.

It's the first time anything on the show felt viscerally contrived to me, so yeah. Although it's cut so suddenly that it's hard to gauge. We'll see if the next ep picks up on it.

Agreed on your second part. The Adam confrontation especially seemed very precise in what happened, and I'm glad it retains the uncomfortable awkwardness in Hannah's decisions.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:18 PM
I agree with Boner/Qrazy that the last scene seemed a little off. They've spent so much time establishing Charlie as being hopelessly and believably passive that this jump to ballsy/overtly aggressive was just kind of jarring, and maybe not in the good way. Also, Marnie's reaction didn't really seem right either. Her anger toward Hannah seemed so misplaced that it felt forced for the sake of dramatic effect.

Fortunately, the preceding scene with Hannah and Adam was written and executed brilliantly. Great stuff there. Love what they did with Shoshanna this week, too.

The character reactions didn't bother me really. I've known guys who are super nice to their girlfriends act out at them when they feel betrayed and it was Hannah's fault it all came out so I can see Marnie taking things out on her. It was more the context of it all coming down in that band setting that didn't fit for me.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:19 PM
Is what?

Basically what he's trying to say is that he's one of those guys who wouldn't have sex with a virgin. 'They bleed and they cling.'

Sycophant
05-08-2012, 08:22 PM
1. I think Shoshanna's a little younger than most of the girls. 22, I think it was said.

2. I know 22's probably considered a bit late to lose your virginity, but is it that fucking unbelievable (ignore Mamet's attractiveness here if that's what you can't buy)? I mean, sometimes people don't have relationships or sex and not just awkward Internet shut-in dudes.

DavidSeven
05-08-2012, 08:26 PM
The character reactions didn't bother me really. I've known guys who are super nice to their girlfriends act out at them when they feel betrayed and it was Hannah's fault it all came out so I can see Marnie taking things out on her. It was more the context of it all coming down in that band setting that didn't fit for me.

Was it really Hannah's fault though? She wrote those thoughts down in a private journal, and I believe these are all things she's already said to Marnie in person, so she can't be pissed about the substance of what was written.

But yeah, it all happened so fast that I can probably buy that it was just an instaneous emotional reaction with Hannah being the most physically immediate outlet to vent anger.

number8
05-08-2012, 08:29 PM
2. I know 22's probably considered a bit late to lose your virginity, but is it that fucking unbelievable (ignore Mamet's attractiveness here)? I mean, sometimes people don't have relationships or sex and not just awkward Internet shut-in dudes.

Surely not, but I was initially criticizing it as a creative decision. As in, the naive, girliest one of the four happen to be the virgin of the bunch, and I stupidly thought we were going to have a storyline of her deciding or not deciding to lose her virginity.

I found her story this ep very prescient, reflecting on how when you're a twenty-something hip kid in a big city and you're hooking up with someone, you typically want a great lay, not someone inexperienced. The dude's reaction is really tactless, but mostly understandable.

Not really sure what Irish is getting at.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:32 PM
Was it really Hannah's fault though? She wrote those thoughts down in a private journal, and I believe these are all things she's already said to Marnie in person, so she can't be pissed about the substance of what was written.

But yeah, it all happened so fast that I can probably buy that it was just an instaneous emotional reaction with Hannah being the most physically immediate outlet to vent anger.

It's not that it was Hannah's fault. It's that the fact that Hannah wrote the thoughts down which gave the boyfriend a chance to read the remarks. This gives Marnie the room to project all of her own guilt/shame/anger onto Hannah. Marnie is the quintessential girl who never takes responsibility for her own thoughts and actions. She pretends that she does by showing up to abortions and such on time but in reality she is as lost and immature as any of her female friends.

On top of that though let's remember that Hannah is supposed to be a friend of the guy as well. They live together after all, but she talks about him as just a hurdling block for her female friend. Basically she is objectifying him (not sexually) but as just any other male figure in her life. So she is just as at fault as Marnie in her own way.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:37 PM
I know a fair number of 20 something attractive virgins (friends of friends mostly). And I'm sure there are a great deal more than I know because those who are typically don't like talking about it.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 08:38 PM
I actually had sex with an early 20's virgin earlier this year and I have to say it did make me a little uncomfortable initially... but I went ahead with it for the greater good.

DavidSeven
05-08-2012, 08:42 PM
It's not that it was Hannah's fault. It's that the fact that Hannah wrote the thoughts down which gave the boyfriend a chance to read the remarks. This gives Marnie the room to project all of her own guilt/shame/anger onto Hannah. Marnie is the quintessential girl who never takes responsibility for her own thoughts and actions. She pretends that she does by showing up to abortions and such on time but in reality she is as lost and immature as any of her female friends.

On top of that though let's remember that Hannah is supposed to be a friend of the guy as well. They live together after all, but she talks about him as just a hurdling block for her female friend. Basically she is objectifying him (not sexually) but as just an other male figure in her life. So she is just as at fault as Marnie in her own way.

Fair enough. Good thoughts.

number8
05-08-2012, 08:45 PM
Oh, almost forgot: Hannah's handsy boss. Yep, totally happened to a friend of mine at her old workplace here. This probably sounds racist, but it's the little authentic details like the fact that he was Jewish that made it even better. I even temped for someone who looked and acted identical once, and he was touchy with me, too, but not as sexually suggestive. When Hannah's boss said to tell him if he's making her uncomfortable and that he's just a "touchy guy," and Hannah says she strangely got used to it after that, I was just grinning ear to ear. That's more or less what my friend said happened.

romantisaurusrex
05-08-2012, 08:46 PM
I agree with Boner/Qrazy that the last scene seemed a little off. They've spent so much time establishing Charlie as being hopelessly and believably passive that this jump to ballsy/overtly aggressive was just kind of jarring, and maybe not in the good way. Also, Marnie's reaction didn't really seem right either. Her anger toward Hannah seemed so misplaced that it felt forced for the sake of dramatic effect.




I liked that they did that. It would make sense to me if the first real independent/manly move Charlie does actually ignites some kind of attraction in Marnie, making her take his side over Hannah's. But yeah, we'll have to see in the next episode.

DavidSeven
05-08-2012, 08:47 PM
"And I don’t even want a boyfriend so…I just want someone who wants to hang out all the time, who thinks I’m the best person in the world, and wants to have sex with only me. And it makes me feel very stupid to tell you this because it makes me sound like a girl who wants to like go to brunch. And I really don’t want to go to brunch. And I don’t want you to like sit on the couch while I shop or like even meet my friends. I don’t even want that, okay?"

Don't care if anyone disagrees. That shit is on point.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 09:01 PM
I liked that they did that. It would make sense to me if the first real independent/manly move Charlie does actually ignites some kind of attraction in Marnie, making her take his side over Hannah's. But yeah, we'll have to see in the next episode.

Well I'm sure it will as well but if there's any justice hopefully Charlie will break up with her and Marnie will have to suffer a bit for her actions. I want to see him break up with her, her hook up with that other guy and cry during sex with the manlier guy (realizing what she's lost), that would be genuine to me (in that I have known 3+ girls who have followed a similar arc in real life).

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 09:02 PM
"And I don’t even want a boyfriend so…I just want someone who wants to hang out all the time, who thinks I’m the best person in the world, and wants to have sex with only me. And it makes me feel very stupid to tell you this because it makes me sound like a girl who wants to like go to brunch. And I really don’t want to go to brunch. And I don’t want you to like sit on the couch while I shop or like even meet my friends. I don’t even want that, okay?"

Don't care if anyone disagrees. That shit is on point.

Yeah although that pretty much is a boyfriend, whether or not they go to brunch together. But the monologue is cognizant of that so it works.

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:06 PM
Did 8 break out a special batch of brownies or what? What's gotten into you people?

number8
05-08-2012, 09:08 PM
I know, right? All these feelings. PUSSIES.

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:12 PM
:lol:

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:45 PM
1. I think Shoshanna's a little younger than most of the girls. 22, I think it was said.

2. I know 22's probably considered a bit late to lose your virginity, but is it that fucking unbelievable (ignore Mamet's attractiveness here if that's what you can't buy)? I mean, sometimes people don't have relationships or sex and not just awkward Internet shut-in dudes.

1. I could have sworn they said 24, but okay.

2. Sure, it's possible that, barring religion, a young woman living in New York City, who looks like that, could still be a virgin in her early twenties. But possible doesn't mean probable.

It's not so much that the idea, in the abstract is "fucking unbelievable," but it's a stretch to believe it in this character in this environment. She's flighty and babbles, but so far I haven't seen any emotional baggage from her that indicates the reasons behind her choice.

I find it a little too pat, a little too contrived, especially given Lena has hung a single archetype on her characters and let them twist (eg the virgin isn't about anything except her virginity).

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 09:51 PM
1. I could have sworn they said 24, but okay.

2. Sure, it's possible that, barring religion, a young woman living in New York City, who looks like that, could still be a virgin in her early twenties. But possible doesn't mean probable.

It's not so much that the idea, in the abstract is "fucking unbelievable," but it's a stretch to believe it in this character in this environment. She's flighty and babbles, but so far I haven't seen any emotional baggage from her that indicates the reasons behind her choice.

I find it a little too pat, a little too contrived, especially given Lena has hung a single archetype on her characters and let them twist (eg the virgin isn't about anything except her virginity).

Sorry but I guess your experience pool just isn't wide enough. I know three girls in Montreal the same age (22-26) that are all attractive and virgins. One of them is similar to Sho's character in terms of temperament. Another one is more the shy type, the third one is a devout Muslim. The thing is that the older you get the harder it is to become no longer a virgin if you're up front about it (as witnessed in the scene in the show but which I have seen play out irl as well).

Also she just gave us the emotional baggage verbatim in this past episode. She suffers from anxiety.

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:55 PM
Marnie is the quintessential girl who never takes responsibility for her own thoughts and actions. She pretends that she does by showing up to abortions and such on time but in reality she is as lost and immature as any of her female friends.

That is, if you don't mind my saying, a wildly off the wall interpretation. I didn't see the pilot, but nothing in the subsequent episodes supports your take. In fact, outside the gallery scene, there hasn't been much from this character at all.

In the context of the story, how is it Hannah's fault for keeping her thoughts private and leaving her journal in her room? She wasn't talking shit behind Marnie & Charlie's backs. She was writing in a diary.

Unless you're saying that this outrage is really over a belief that Hannah is being two faced,

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 09:57 PM
That is, if you don't mind my saying, a wildly off the wall interpretation. I didn't see the pilot, but nothing in the subsequent episodes supports your take. In fact, outside the gallery scene, there hasn't been much from this character at all.

In the context of the story, how is it Hannah's fault for keeping her thoughts private and leaving her journal in her room? She wasn't talking shit behind Marnie & Charlie's backs. She was writing in a diary.

Unless you're saying that this outrage is really over a belief that Hannah is being two faced,

Watch the pilot and then delete this.

Irish
05-08-2012, 09:58 PM
Sorry but I guess your experience pool just isn't wide enough. I know three girls in Montreal the same age (22-26) that are all attractive and virgins.

Yes, because women have never lied to men about sex.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 10:01 PM
Yes, because women have never lied to men about sex.

Haha you're so ridiculous. Yeah you're right, none of those girls are virgins, my mistake.

1. I slept with one of them and she was clearly a virgin.
2. The second one her cousin told me.
3. The third one told me she was a virgin and she's Muslim.

Irish
05-08-2012, 10:04 PM
This probably sounds racist, but it's the little authentic details like the fact that he was Jewish that made it even better. I even temped for someone who looked and acted identical once, and he was touchy with me, too, but not as sexually suggestive. When Hannah's boss said to tell him if he's making her uncomfortable and that he's just a "touchy guy," and Hannah says she strangely got used to it after that, I was just grinning ear to ear. That's more or less what my friend said happened.

It's not racist, because "Jewish" isn't a race. It may or may not be anti-Semitic, because the actor is a Jew but that isn't central to the character, the plot, or even, iirc, mentioned during the course of the show. So it's a little weird that you honed in on that.

I now have this image of you in my head, watching the show wrapped in a tattered blanket, laughing, and saying out loud to an empty room, "Oh, it's true, it's true. Those Jews! So grabby."

number8
05-08-2012, 10:04 PM
This conversation is nearing duke-ogling-Courtney-Stodden levels of uncomfortable.

[ETM]
05-08-2012, 10:10 PM
I hope Irish never imagines me wrapped in a blanket.

Irish
05-08-2012, 10:11 PM
"And I don’t even want a boyfriend so…I just want someone who wants to hang out all the time, who thinks I’m the best person in the world, and wants to have sex with only me. And it makes me feel very stupid to tell you this because it makes me sound like a girl who wants to like go to brunch. And I really don’t want to go to brunch. And I don’t want you to like sit on the couch while I shop or like even meet my friends. I don’t even want that, okay?"

Don't care if anyone disagrees. That shit is on point.

This scene and the one from the earlier episode, in the bar with the ex boyfriend, was really well done.

I'm a little afraid she knows that though, and it'll become a crutch, kinda a writing equivalent to a good parlor trick.

I hopes she's got more -- the scene where Hannah got the cock picture, assured her friend that she wouldn't respond, then immediately sexted back was more interesting to me, and telling from a character standpoint, then the pleasantly assured, rambling, self-actualized monologues.

Irish
05-08-2012, 10:15 PM
Haha you're so ridiculous. Yeah you're right, none of those girls are virgins, my mistake.

1. I slept with one of them and she was clearly a virgin.
2. The second one her cousin told me.
3. The third one told me she was a virgin and she's Muslim.

You've twice now bragged about busting cherries. On the Internet.

I'm fairly confident that, of the two of us, I'm not the one who is ridiculous.

Qrazy
05-08-2012, 10:19 PM
You've twice now bragged about busting cherries. On the Internet.

I'm fairly confident that, of the two of us, I'm not the one who is ridiculous.

No, it's the same girl, I was just reiterating for your sake so you would know that I know she wasn't lying to me. Probably tmi but it seemed apropos of the show so I could not resist divulging personal information to clarify the point.

But anyway I will accept your above comment as your ungracious acceptance that you are in fact wrong about the amount of 20+ attractive female virgins in this world.

Lucky
05-08-2012, 10:33 PM
I don't think it's as weird as it sounds, either. Especially with pampered, prissy college students, which she is. They definitely said she was 22, she's also still in school from what I interpret. She's not attractive enough to make that a valid point for the "I can't believe that" argument. Not unattractive by any means, just nothing special. Meh, I don't have trouble buying into her character. She's the least interesting one out of the four (so far), though, I'll give you that.

Irish
05-08-2012, 11:37 PM
No, it's the same girl, I was just reiterating for your sake so you would know that I know she wasn't lying to me. Probably tmi but it seemed apropos of the show so I could not resist divulging personal information to clarify the point.

But anyway I will accept your above comment as your ungracious acceptance that you are in fact wrong about the amount of 20+ attractive female virgins in this world.

Wow. Overreact much?

First, I never said there were no older virgins in the world. Just that what may be true and possible in real life often plays as false and improbable on a television show.

Second, for a guy who prides himself on "logic," you've just sought to disprove my own anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence. (Her cousin told you? Did you really just say that? When did we go back to the 5th grade?). I don't know why you'd think otherwise, but you've proved nothing.

Third, for a guy who takes pains to make semantic arguments, you've failed to realize it's possible to brag twice in succession about the same thing. Worse, you don't see your original statements can be read both ways.

Fourth, you came into it today looking to pick a fight over this and just dying for an excuse to relate your cherry-poppin' adventures. I threw a wrench into that, which is, I'm guessing, the reason for your little tantrum.

Fifth, this is really fucking boring. And off topic.

If you want to hurl around baseless insults because I pissed in your Cheerios, create a Kitchen Sink thread and I'll post in it.

But let's agree to keep it out this thread, because the discussion here, even though I disagree with chunks of it, is good and on point.

Qrazy
05-09-2012, 01:01 AM
Wow. Overreact much?

First, I never said there were no older virgins in the world. Just that what may be true and possible in real life often plays as false and improbable on a television show.

Second, for a guy who prides himself on "logic," you've just sought to disprove my own anecdotal evidence with your own anecdotal evidence. (Her cousin told you? Did you really just say that? When did we go back to the 5th grade?). I don't know why you'd think otherwise, but you've proved nothing.

Third, for a guy who takes pains to make semantic arguments, you've failed to realize it's possible to brag twice in succession about the same thing. Worse, you don't see your original statements can be read both ways.

Fourth, you came into it today looking to pick a fight over this and just dying for an excuse to relate your cherry-poppin' adventures. I threw a wrench into that, which is, I'm guessing, the reason for your little tantrum.

Fifth, this is really fucking boring. And off topic.

If you want to hurl around baseless insults because I pissed in your Cheerios, create a Kitchen Sink thread and I'll post in it.

But let's agree to keep it out this thread, because the discussion here, even though I disagree with chunks of it, is good and on point.

You make two mistakes here.

1. You think because you have a thought it is worth stating.
2. You think because you have a thought it is correct.

---

Her cousin is one of my closest friends, I have no reason not to believe her. You on the other hand are arguing for the sake of arguing. The girl is a virgin fucking deal with it.

---

Firstly, this is not a semantic argument, you still do not know what that means. Secondly I am not bragging about that girl. If you actually read what I wrote the virgin idea made me uncomfortable at first but then I figured it wouldn't be fair to her to bail on the situation because of that (directly related to the show). This was not a conquest, it was consensual sex between two adults for a period of time (it's now over), sorry I didn't realize discussing our sexual history was off limits. And by sorry I mean fuck you for even seeking a justification from me, this is the last I'll give you.

---

Here's a thought, you can just not respond and then it will be kept out of this thread.

Irish
05-09-2012, 07:28 AM
Here's a thought, you can just not respond and then it will be kept out of this thread.

Nooooooo, Cherry Popper. I don't think so. You don't get to do that.

You tried hard to pick a fight, so now that you've got one you don't get to tell me not to post. (It's as if your telling me to stop hitting myself; like you're regressing before my eyes.)

So, yes, I'm taking your bait. Last time.

Let's recap to the collective groan of every Match Cutter who doesn't have a dick in this pissing match:

You've once again (1) misinterpreted something I said, (2) lept to a conclusion I did not make and then (3) angrily berated me for it.

When I'm feeling charitable, I've often thought we annoy each other so much because we each see attributes in the other that we don't like about ourselves. This is not one of those times. This is one of those times where I think you're an unqualified asshole, who too often uses his intellect to browbeat the posters here into submission.

And this is an open discussion forum, not your personal domain. The idea, which seems lost on you (much like, apparently, the popular use of the word 'semantic'), is that people throw out ideas, see what sticks, and talk about it. It's a simple concept, one that makes what you just posted ridiculous and your posturing pathetic.

I'll leave the last word to you, if you want it. You seem like the kind of guy that needs it.

Chinga tu madre, Cherry Popper.

romantisaurusrex
05-09-2012, 01:56 PM
Haha you're so ridiculous. Yeah you're right, none of those girls are virgins, my mistake.

1. I slept with one of them and she was clearly a virgin.


Not that it has anything to do with the show, but as a female I'm really uncomfortable FOR her for you stating this on the internet.

Raiders
05-09-2012, 02:02 PM
Chinga tu madre, Cherry Popper.

Above all else, this is why people take issue with you. There is just no reason to be this nasty behind the curtain of the Internet. Be fucking civil. It isn't hard. Not every disagreement with you has to devolve into name calling. It's petty and lame and undermines everything you have to say.

Qrazy
05-09-2012, 06:47 PM
Not that it has anything to do with the show, but as a female I'm really uncomfortable FOR her for you stating this on the internet.

Why? You don't know who I am or who she is. I don't see how my statement is any different than innumerable statements that number8 and others have made about their sex lives. Would it have been more acceptable if she hadn't been a virgin and was just some girl I had had relations with? Again the virgin stigma rears it's head.

Also Irish just a quick fyi I've put you on ignore so I didn't read your last post nor will I.

number8
05-09-2012, 06:52 PM
Bro, why you gotta rope me in, bro?

Qrazy
05-09-2012, 06:54 PM
Bro, why you gotta rope me in, bro?

If I have to go down I'm not going alone! :lol:

ledfloyd
05-09-2012, 09:22 PM
i thought this was probably the weakest episode so far but i still enjoyed it and it has some great moments.

Irish
05-09-2012, 10:39 PM
Above all else, this is why people take issue with you. There is just no reason to be this nasty behind the curtain of the Internet. Be fucking civil. It isn't hard. Not every disagreement with you has to devolve into name calling. It's petty and lame and undermines everything you have to say.

Taking this to a PM.

romantisaurusrex
05-09-2012, 11:36 PM
Why? You don't know who I am or who she is. I don't see how my statement is any different than innumerable statements that number8 and others have made about their sex lives. Would it have been more acceptable if she hadn't been a virgin and was just some girl I had had relations with? Again the virgin stigma rears it's head.

Also Irish just a quick fyi I've put you on ignore so I didn't read your last post nor will I.

I guess yeah. I mean I think it would depend on the person's comfort level if they hypothetically found out you were talking about taking their virginity on a public forum. From what I can tell, number8 tends to reference sexual encounters with people who wouldn't mind them being referenced. As a woman, especially since she held onto her virginity for so long, I'm betting it was a personal and vulnerable thing for her when she lost it. I don't think that's virgin stigma, just the way it tends to be.

Qrazy
05-09-2012, 11:50 PM
I don't feel comfortable talking about this here, hopefully you read my clarification but something I only meant to state in passing has now become much more involved and personal than I am interested in discussing, so never mind.

romantisaurusrex
05-14-2012, 01:15 PM
So many hilarious moments in this episode, and the closing shot was brilliant. I don't really like when the show gets too outlandish (Hannah hitting on her boss, the obvious flamboyancy of Hannah's boyfriend in the flashback), and I think she does way better when she sticks to the mundane. That being said, each episode so far for me has had one scene that is just absolutely spot on, and this episode it was Marnee's sex scene when she breaks up with Charlie. Totally believable/relatable

romantisaurusrex
05-14-2012, 01:16 PM
I don't feel comfortable talking about this here, hopefully you read my clarification but something I only meant to state in passing has now become much more involved and personal than I am interested in discussing, so never mind.
I read it and I got you. Probably shouldn't have said anything I wasn't offended I was just kind of like "woah," but I understand your point.

Raiders
05-14-2012, 01:18 PM
I really find that this show more than any other I can remember watching is able to combine great scenes with irritating ones practically in succession. I definitely appreciate what Dunham is doing with this show and its view/placement of sex within a kind of mundane setting (it manages to make sex and sexuality meaningful without ever building up to it which is pretty unique), but she definitely stretches herself and the show way too much sometimes (the scene with her hitting on her boss just felt so unbelievable and dumb).

Qrazy
05-14-2012, 04:31 PM
I agree.

ledfloyd
05-14-2012, 05:57 PM
i feel like these last two episodes which she hasn't directed have had a much different feel than the first three. i thought both the scene with the boss and the final scene with her boyfriend were pretty outlandish (although the latter scene was really good until she came out of the bathroom). and the jessa/shoshanna stuff this week was completely disposable. marnie's breakup was handled so well though. fantastic.

Lucky
05-14-2012, 06:29 PM
The musical interludes between scene changes were odd. Glad they didn't continue that throughout the episode, it was like an awkward Seinfeld allusion.

slqrick
05-14-2012, 11:08 PM
I really find that this show more than any other I can remember watching is able to combine great scenes with irritating ones practically in succession. I definitely appreciate what Dunham is doing with this show and its view/placement of sex within a kind of mundane setting (it manages to make sex and sexuality meaningful without ever building up to it which is pretty unique), but she definitely stretches herself and the show way too much sometimes (the scene with her hitting on her boss just felt so unbelievable and dumb).

After catching up on this, this is pretty much how I feel. The majority of the scenes between any combination of the girls works really well, but I get annoyed when Dunham tries to be too clever or self-aware of the fact that her character is making a "deep" speech.

Jessa's arc has been god awful so far, and Shoshanna isn't getting enough to do.

I know it's been discussed ad nauseum by some critics, but for a show that gets praised so much for being realistic, the complete lack of any colored folk in a show that's supposed to take place in the heart of NYC is just incredibly strange to me. I'm not even talking about having a token ethnic friend, but small stuff like the bar they went to in Bushwick for Charlie's performance, where it looked like there wasn't a single non-white person in the crowd, in an area of Brooklyn that tends to be pretty diverse. At the end of the day it doesn't affect my perception toward the quality of the show, but it does seem to be a real blind spot to me on Dunham's part.

number8
05-15-2012, 04:17 AM
This was probably my favorite episode to date. The role reversal at the end had me dying throughout the whole scene.

"30, because I also want pizza."

Russ
05-15-2012, 10:14 PM
I thought last ep was pretty weak overall. I think I'm bailing. Glad it comes on after GoT and Veep.

Henry Gale
05-15-2012, 10:22 PM
See, when I don't watch them live, I go Game of Thrones, Girls, then Veep. Just has a better flow for me, but I understand why they schedule it otherwise.

And I kinda loved this episode too, maybe second to "Adventurous Women". I agree that Dunham isn't giving the same level of material to Jessa and Shoshanna as she is to Marnie and her own character, but I don't think it's really meant to be an equally-balanced ensemble show just yet. Once they cement the main two, it'll probably be easier for them to flesh out the others.

I also didn't expect Marnie's storyline, especially with the flashback coming into play, to be as good as it was. Sure, Hannah's scenes felt broader (though still funny enough to work no matter what), but that might have just been in comparison to how genuine the Marnie/Charlie stuff felt.

number8
05-16-2012, 12:23 AM
I also like how the three sex scenes in the episode work out to the girls' favor—Jessa taking revenge for being dumped, Marnie finally having the courage to dump Charlie, and Hannah getting Adam to switch roles—which is a change from previous episodes.

romantisaurusrex
05-16-2012, 02:52 AM
I also like how the three sex scenes in the episode work out to the girls' favor—Jessa taking revenge for being dumped, Marnie finally having the courage to dump Charlie, and Hannah getting Adam to switch roles—which is a change from previous episodes.

Jessa's scene in this episode is a good example of why I disagree with some people who have suggested that she isn't a complex character. It wasn't a revenge hook up at all, and the guy got exactly what he wanted-- unattached sex and the ability to go back to his presumably less hostile, more mature girlfriend. Jessa really didn't get much other than the confirmation that she's hot-- he was physically gratified, she wasn't. I think it really speaks to the need for Jessa's more feminine needs to be reassured and admired no matter how unattached she portrays herself. I really could be reading too much into it, I just like this show a lot.

DavidSeven
05-16-2012, 04:15 AM
I liked the episode a lot, but I agree with Raiders that Hannah's scene with her boss rang false. This is probably the tricky thing about establishing what feels like an uncommonly realistic tone right off the bat. The more "plotty" developments are going to be harder to sell. I also do wish Durnham was able to direct every episode, because it's artistically more interesting that way, but I understand that's damn near impossible considering her duties as star and writer.

Raiders
05-16-2012, 01:07 PM
I also do wish Durnham was able to direct every episode, because it's artistically more interesting that way, but I understand that's damn near impossible considering her duties as star and writer.

Yeah, I think Louis C.K. only manages it because a) half of every episode is a stand-up routine and, b) the other half are one-location, single-camera vignettes.

number8
05-16-2012, 03:01 PM
Jessa's scene in this episode is a good example of why I disagree with some people who have suggested that she isn't a complex character. It wasn't a revenge hook up at all, and the guy got exactly what he wanted-- unattached sex and the ability to go back to his presumably less hostile, more mature girlfriend. Jessa really didn't get much other than the confirmation that she's hot-- he was physically gratified, she wasn't. I think it really speaks to the need for Jessa's more feminine needs to be reassured and admired no matter how unattached she portrays herself. I really could be reading too much into it, I just like this show a lot.

Hm, I didn't read that interaction that way. I don't think she was looking for physical gratification to begin with. I saw it as more of a power play between them. There are guys who are just as satisfied with an ex-girlfriend wanting them even if they don't hook up, and he struck me as that type, with his dangling the news that he's moving in with his girlfriend to Jessa. He was trying to get her to desire him and deny her the pleasure, because he was more interested in control, but she made him lose his resolve and sent him home with the exact opposite: that she made him desire her enough to cheat on his supposedly great girlfriend, and cemented the idea that she's the gatekeeper and she's the one in control when she denied him the kiss.

The idea of sex as a position of control is reflected in the other two sex scenes, too. With Hannah/Adam it's an obvious switch from their usual roles, and with Marnie/Charlie it started as Charlie being in control when Marnie was begging him not to break up, and during the sex he was telling her what to do. But then Marnie took it back by pulling away and dumping him.

romantisaurusrex
05-16-2012, 08:01 PM
Hm, I didn't read that interaction that way. I don't think she was looking for physical gratification to begin with. I saw it as more of a power play between them. There are guys who are just as satisfied with an ex-girlfriend wanting them even if they don't hook up, and he struck me as that type, with his dangling the news that he's moving in with his girlfriend to Jessa. He was trying to get her to desire him and deny her the pleasure, because he was more interested in control, but she made him lose his resolve and sent him home with the exact opposite: that she made him desire her enough to cheat on his supposedly great girlfriend, and cemented the idea that she's the gatekeeper and she's the one in control when she denied him the kiss.

The idea of sex as a position of control is reflected in the other two sex scenes, too. With Hannah/Adam it's an obvious switch from their usual roles, and with Marnie/Charlie it started as Charlie being in control when Marnie was begging him not to break up, and during the sex he was telling her what to do. But then Marnie took it back by pulling away and dumping him.

Yeah, I get that too. I think regardless, what Durnham perhaps has done best consistently is shown how sex can be a playing field for other (i guess bigger) issues. Her characters are really starting to work through character arcs through it.

Boner M
05-21-2012, 12:51 PM
Best episode yet. Any show that can make "I'm tight like a baby, huh?" such a poignant line is something special indeed.

Raiders
05-21-2012, 01:06 PM
Best episode yet.

Without question. There wasn't really a single moment I can think of that didn't land well.

Mara
05-21-2012, 03:03 PM
Ah, man, I just read that this episode visited East Lansing? That's my home town. Now I'm all ambivalent again.

Mara
05-21-2012, 03:13 PM
Ah, man, I just read that this episode visited East Lansing? That's my home town. Now I'm all ambivalent again.

Ooh, some preliminary digging has turned up two facts:

1. It wasn't filmed in EL because of monetary constraints.

2. People from EL are pissed about the way it was portrayed-- I guess as small-town and backwards? It's not a huge town, about 50,000 people, but there is also MSU, which adds almost another 50,000 people, and attracts more theater, art, literature, etc. than you'd expect. It's not a thriving metropolis, but it's not the tail-end of nowhere.

Sycophant
05-21-2012, 03:17 PM
As someone from a city fairly comparable in size to East Lansing (Pocatello, Idaho--which when combined with Chubbuck has a population of about 75,000), that surprises me. The town didn't feel like it was portrayed as backwards to me. Just a little boring for a person who felt it necessary to move to New York.

A great episode, indeed.

Mara
05-21-2012, 03:19 PM
As someone from a city fairly comparable in size to East Lansing (Pocatello, Idaho--which when combined with Chubbuck has a population of about 75,000), that surprises me. The town didn't feel like it was portrayed as backwards to me. Just a little boring for a person who felt it necessary to move to New York.

I wouldn't put it past my hometown compatriots to be overly sensitive.

Lucky
05-21-2012, 03:23 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't say it was portrayed as backwards. Just "safer" in comparison to NY. This episode actually reminded me of Garden State at times. I felt like the blonde girl could have been a part of that movie word for word.

romantisaurusrex
05-21-2012, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't put it past my hometown compatriots to be overly sensitive.

I kind of agree that it was portrayed as overly lame if not backwards (Do full-fledged adults REALLY still listen to the Goo Goo Dolls in 2012?) But come on, watch the episode before you judge it! :lol:

Best moment:
"You are from New York, therefor you are just naturally interesting. It is not necessary for you to fill all of the positives-- you are not in danger of mortifying yourself. The worst stuff you say sounds better than the best stuff that other people say."

Lucky
05-21-2012, 04:56 PM
My interpretation of the poster was that it was still a hanging remnant from when Hannah lived there. Could be off base with that one, but it sits better than the parents having a Goo Goo Dolls poster up especially since the band hasn't been relevant in years.

romantisaurusrex
05-21-2012, 05:04 PM
My interpretation of the poster was that it was still a hanging remnant from when Hannah lived there. Could be off base with that one, but it sits better than the parents having a Goo Goo Dolls poster up especially since the band hasn't been relevant in years.

Oh yeah, I was referring to how they were playing I'll Be at the benefit.

slqrick
05-21-2012, 06:34 PM
I have to agree with all the praise here, and have to say that this was by far my favorite episode of the show, and the first one I truly liked start to finish.

I think this speaks a lot about the failings of the previous episodes too, though. This episode made everyone involved around Hannah compelling characters in ways that weren't really present throughout much of this season. Having it focus solely on her and none of the other girls made this a much stronger episode, and something they should do more often. The relationship with Adam also took a nice turn.

The Fleet Foxes at the end doesn't hurt either.

ledfloyd
05-21-2012, 06:39 PM
The Fleet Foxes at the end doesn't hurt either.
yeah, i'm loving the music decisions on this show.

this hasn't usurped "Vagina Panic" or "All Adventurous Women Do" for me but it's a great episode. i do want to say the portrayal of small town life was somewhat caricatured but as an inhabitant of a small town i have been to eerily similar benefits and it does seem like everyone around me is just having the most boring sex possible.

and yeah, the way they used that scene to comment on Hannah's relationship with Adam was special indeed.

Thirdmango
05-22-2012, 05:55 AM
I am not as in love with this show as most everyone else watching this, however this was my favorite episode so far. Her mom and dad were fantastic. The writing was really good in portraying similarities between Hannah and the Dancer chick. Just with the whole I'm gonna move out of this town and become a famous whatnot. I still hate Adam, I understand I'm supposed to hate him but I think I hate him more then is intended.

Sxottlan
05-22-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm liking this show, but I'm not loving it like how it appears others here do.


I really find that this show more than any other I can remember watching is able to combine great scenes with irritating ones practically in succession.

This. I'm seeing scenes that I greatly enjoy and then scenes where the characters' behavior becomes bizarre to me or obtuse. Why would Hannah not be angry with Charlie and his friend for going through her journal? And then asking Marnie for her detached opinion of her prose? Maybe I just don't have a good read on Hannah. I'm trying to figure out if she's trying to be funny or she's really that dense. Hate Adam too.

Edit: I have liked the show's selection of music.

romantisaurusrex
05-22-2012, 03:56 PM
I'm liking this show, but I'm not loving it like how it appears others here do.



This. I'm seeing scenes that I greatly enjoy and then scenes where the characters' behavior becomes bizarre to me or obtuse. Why would Hannah not be angry with Charlie and his friend for going through her journal? And then asking Marnie for her detached opinion of her prose? Maybe I just don't have a good read on Hannah. I'm trying to figure out if she's trying to be funny or she's really that dense. Hate Adam too.

Edit: I have liked the show's selection of music.


Hannah's not angry with Charlie because she's secretly loving the fact that people are actually paying attention to her writing, and because she's happy that it might get Charlie out of the picture. She's not dense, but she's selfish.

And I don't know if the show wants you to hate Adam, but I don't. He's not really my particular brand of douchebag, but I'm okay with him. He's self-serving, but Hannah hasn't really given him any reason not to be.

NickGlass
05-22-2012, 04:23 PM
I'm seeing scenes that I greatly enjoy and then scenes where the characters' behavior becomes bizarre to me or obtuse. Why would Hannah not be angry with Charlie and his friend for going through her journal? And then asking Marnie for her detached opinion of her prose? Maybe I just don't have a good read on Hannah. I'm trying to figure out if she's trying to be funny or she's really that dense. Hate Adam too.


I agree with this, as well, which furthers my complete ambivalence regarding this show. Of course, I keep watching, curiously, and I am possibly the biggest defenders of the show among my friends (most of who disliked it after the first couple episodes, even if it's a flippant dismissal).

Also, I really like the Adam character. Not because of the character, but because of the performance. It's so recognizable, but so weird--there's something about the rhythms in his line delivery. His cadence shoots through bullshit, as it peddles more bullshit.

Qrazy
05-22-2012, 05:15 PM
Yeah, I really like Adam.

number8
05-23-2012, 12:30 AM
I think the show is actually doing a marvelous job portraying Adam the way Hannah sees him. He's frustratingly dismissive, but like she said in her confession to him, he's incredibly charming without seeming to try or even realize it at all. He feels real in the kind of douches that a girl like Hannah would fall for, unlike the usual portrayal of the douchebag boyfriend in movies that we don't understand why girls are attracted to them in the first place. Adam's very... recognizable, like Nick said. I can easily see why someone would have a hard time dumping him.

DavidSeven
05-23-2012, 02:14 AM
Adam's a dick, but Hannah connects with him on a level that's hard to come by. They're comfortable around each other. She can say things without fear of judgment around him that she can't with others (e.g. ridicule a dance routine at a faux memorial service or engage in creepy sex talk). In reality, connections like this are pretty rare. I feel we don't feel how rare they are in film and TV because characters are generally written to have chemistry with each other. This, however, isn't how interactions in the world generally operate, and at the end of day, we're more interested in finding that connection than we are in finding the person who's going to treat us the best. This general idea is conveyed really clearly in the last episode without ever being directly stated by the characters in dialogue. Really strong stuff.

Adam, as a character, is written and performed so precisely. As Nick and 8 said, he's recognizable, but what makes him interesting is that the familiarity isn't from we've previously seen on film and TV. Dunham and Driver (the actor) have really tapped into something special with the character and his dynamic with Hannah, I think.

number8
05-23-2012, 02:38 PM
Why would Hannah not be angry with Charlie and his friend for going through her journal? And then asking Marnie for her detached opinion of her prose? Maybe I just don't have a good read on Hannah. I'm trying to figure out if she's trying to be funny or she's really that dense.

She wants to publish a memoir. Why would she be angry that people read her journal? She probably wanted to put all that stuff on a blog, but was afraid that Marnie would be mad. I would find it more bizarre if she did get angry.

I don't think journal entries are a sacred private thing anymore to this generation.

number8
05-23-2012, 03:11 PM
Ha, I saw an interview with the show's costume designer and apparently the show's wardrobe for the girls are all used clothes purchased from this Williamsburg thrift store I know.

Realism, guys.

Henry Gale
05-23-2012, 08:06 PM
Maaan, this isn't the first time I've thought this after an episode, but this is definitely the time I've most wished that this show was an hour long. When it ended I thought it couldn't have played more perfectly, but I just didn't want it to be done there, especially since I assume next week will pick up back in New York.

And this was also the episode I felt the strongest echoes of Freaks and Geeks live on (which I've also loved seeing similarity in before in something like the ending of "Adventurous Women") with its vividly awkward portrayals of everyday social interactions (which are then beautifully mirrored with intensely private moments that end up equally bumpy), and not just because of Judd Apatow co-writing this one with Becky Ann Baker featured so prominently, though they probably didn't weaken the comparison.

Lucky
05-28-2012, 04:09 AM
This was the first episode that fell completely flat for me. Disliked all four storylines.

ledfloyd
05-28-2012, 07:58 AM
i really liked it. the jessa/dad stuff is still pretty rote but the hannah, marnie and (surprisingly) shoshanna plotlines were all pretty strong. adam confronting hannah about how her selfishness deprives her of the right to be upset with his behavior was relaly strong, and i also liked her conversation with tako. marnie's reaction to how quickly charlie has moved on was intriguing as well. and shoshanna's scene with charlie's friend was maybe the most insight we've gotten into her character all season.

i also thought it was probably the funniest episode of the show.

Thirdmango
05-28-2012, 11:55 AM
This is the first episode I liked Adam, and I really liked the roommates storyline (I forget her name). Entourage did this thing and now this show is doing the same thing where they'll play a song and I'll be like ooh I like that but they don't put that in the credits. Does anyone happen to know what song was playing when Adam and Hannah first started dancing? I want to know.

romantisaurusrex
05-28-2012, 01:39 PM
Really unbelievably out of character for Adam to agree to be Hannah's boyfriend.

Lucky
05-28-2012, 02:23 PM
Really unbelievably out of character for Adam to agree to be Hannah's boyfriend.

Completely agreed.

I know that a cover of the Britney Spears song "When the World Ends" played, but I'm not sure if it was during their first meeting.

Irish
05-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Really unbelievably out of character for Adam to agree to be Hannah's boyfriend.

At first glance I'd agree, but then she redeemed it a bit at the end. The last couple of scenes between Hannah and Adam were strong (I'm convinced that the guy playing Adam is the only real performer in the cast).

Part of the problem is that she condensed too much into the final 10 minutes for it to be completely believable. If they had an argument where he ended it with the "you never never asked, you don't want to know me" bit (great lines, underlined by a previous scene with Marnie and the gay ex dishing on Hannah's selfishness) and then next week the boyfriend question was raised, I think it would have been smoother, more believable. As it stands, it's a little too much of a jump between the Adam we know -- selfish, angry asshole -- and this guy in the street bemoaning how this girl doesn't want to know him. (The actor really sold it for me, more than the writing).

As for the rest of the episode -- the show has some energy at the scene level but I'm finding it highly repetitive. I think Dunham needs to start pulling rabbits out of her narrative hat, otherwise people will cotton on to this thing being not much more than Sweet Valley High with hard drugs and awkward sex.

ledfloyd
05-28-2012, 06:13 PM
Entourage did this thing and now this show is doing the same thing where they'll play a song and I'll be like ooh I like that but they don't put that in the credits. Does anyone happen to know what song was playing when Adam and Hannah first started dancing? I want to know.
HBO's website is great for this. http://www.hbo.com/girls/index.html#/girls/episodes/01/07-welcome-to-bushwick-aka-the-crackcident/music.html

number8
05-28-2012, 09:46 PM
Adam was reaaaaaaaaaaally likable this ep.

Henry Gale
05-28-2012, 09:59 PM
i really liked it. the jessa/dad stuff is still pretty rote but the hannah, marnie and (surprisingly) shoshanna plotlines were all pretty strong. adam confronting hannah about how her selfishness deprives her of the right to be upset with his behavior was relaly strong, and i also liked her conversation with tako. marnie's reaction to how quickly charlie has moved on was intriguing as well. and shoshanna's scene with charlie's friend was maybe the most insight we've gotten into her character all season.

i also thought it was probably the funniest episode of the show.

Yup, agree with all of this. It's kind of telling you from the whole "Everyone's going to be at this party!" angle of having every relevant character show up that the show is as concerned with heightening its realism as much as it is with having a big storytelling convenience like that, but in the end having all of them bump into one another in the ways they do makes for a really enjoyable half-hour.

I still think last week's was better (or, at least stronger with less elements and only concerning itself with Hannah at the center), but this was probably still one of my favourites, especially because, like you mentioned, it was also just extremely funny at times.

romantisaurusrex
05-28-2012, 10:07 PM
At first glance I'd agree, but then she redeemed it a bit at the end. The last couple of scenes between Hannah and Adam were strong (I'm convinced that the guy playing Adam is the only real performer in the cast).

Part of the problem is that she condensed too much into the final 10 minutes for it to be completely believable. If they had an argument where he ended it with the "you never never asked, you don't want to know me" bit (great lines, underlined by a previous scene with Marnie and the gay ex dishing on Hannah's selfishness) and then next week the boyfriend question was raised, I think it would have been smoother, more believable. As it stands, it's a little too much of a jump between the Adam we know -- selfish, angry asshole -- and this guy in the street bemoaning how this girl doesn't want to know him. (The actor really sold it for me, more than the writing).

As for the rest of the episode -- the show has some energy at the scene level but I'm finding it highly repetitive. I think Dunham needs to start pulling rabbits out of her narrative hat, otherwise people will cotton on to this thing being not much more than Sweet Valley High with hard drugs and awkward sex.

I just don't really think it was sold in the context of the story line. If A was going to be vulnerable, wouldn't he have done so when H poured her little 1-dimensional heart out to him during their "break up"? Instead he decided to push her away instead of continuing to string her along. I don't see him doing that if what he really wanted was emotional closeness. Them being in a relationship isn't going to somehow fix the fact that she doesn't really get him or even really want to. He should know that...

I disagree with people not liking Jessa's story line. I loved her "I liked you more when you were being the good guy".

Lucky
05-28-2012, 10:18 PM
I disagree with people not liking Jessa's story line. I loved her "I liked you more when you were being the good guy".

That was fine, I dislike the caricature that they're turning Jessa into. I'm irked by nearly every attempt they make to scream that she is freespirited. Wearing the vulture carcass, grabbing naked girl's boob, chucking the wine bottle, telling those guys off, texting her boss, et al. The way it was all handled really put me off. Her storyline was ok, but I find Jessa less interesting after it, so it's hard to qualify it a success.

Qrazy
05-28-2012, 10:37 PM
That was fine, I dislike the caricature that they're turning Jessa into. I'm irked by nearly every attempt they make to scream that she is freespirited. Wearing the vulture carcass, grabbing naked girl's boob, chucking the wine bottle, telling those guys off, texting her boss, et al. The way it was all handled really put me off. Her storyline was ok, but I find Jessa less interesting after it, so it's hard to qualify it a success.

Sort of agree but also know some girls like that so it kind of sums up how much I can't stand them.

romantisaurusrex
05-28-2012, 10:37 PM
That was fine, I dislike the caricature that they're turning Jessa into. I'm irked by nearly every attempt they make to scream that she is freespirited. Wearing the vulture carcass, grabbing naked girl's boob, chucking the wine bottle, telling those guys off, texting her boss, et al. The way it was all handled really put me off. Her storyline was ok, but I find Jessa less interesting after it, so it's hard to qualify it a success.

Yes.

EDIT: @Qrazy, that's why I'm not bothered by it in the show-- I see it less as the show trying too hard to fit her into a box and more as the character trying to put herself there.

Thirdmango
05-29-2012, 02:18 AM
The song I was looking for was:

Mark Ronson & The Business Intl - Bang Bang Bang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM6TCGltfHM&ob=av2e

Qrazy
05-29-2012, 02:20 AM
The song I was looking for was:

Mark Ronson & The Business Intl - Bang Bang Bang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM6TCGltfHM&ob=av2e

I've been post episode bingeing on that Oh Land track.

DavidSeven
05-29-2012, 07:58 AM
I really liked the episode. It had a good, cinematic energy to it, which is great to see the show accomplish without Dunham as the credited director. Everything Hannah/Adam was magic again, and I'm not sure I agree that Adam went too far out of character. Agreeing to be Hannah's boyfriend in that moment isn't necessarily the same thing as following through thereafter. I'd be surprised if the latter happens immediately. I think a lot of what's being called Adam's "vulnerability" in that scene was just him finding a way to call Hannah on her shit after being called out himself. Whether he actually gives her greater access to him is still in the air

Sycophant
05-29-2012, 08:06 AM
Yes.

EDIT: @Qrazy, that's why I'm not bothered by it in the show-- I see it less as the show trying too hard to fit her into a box and more as the character trying to put herself there.

Yeah, this is the image she's cultivated for herself (note how much Shoshannah buys it in the first episode) and with this episode, it seems we're being signaled that she's finding it tiring. She doesn't feel like the person that does this crazy shit anymore. At least, I think this is where this is going.

Just about everything in this show is working for me. It's basically wonderful.

Boner M
05-29-2012, 08:26 AM
I really liked the episode. It had a good, cinematic energy to it, which is great to see the show accomplish without Dunham as the credited director.
This is the first ep that the show's DP Jody Lee Lipes directed; he also shot Martha Marcy..., Afterschool and Dunham's Tiny Furniture. One of the most gifted cinematographers out there.

Qrazy
05-29-2012, 08:36 AM
I don't think Adam went out of character and I think he will continue as her boyfriend at least for a while. The reason for this is that I think she's tapping into the profile of guys who act distant and disinterested precisely because they like the girl somewhat. Adam started genuinely liking Hannah when she started sticking up for herself.

number8
05-29-2012, 11:07 AM
I don't think Adam went out of character and I think he will continue as her boyfriend at least for a while. The reason for this is that I think she's tapping into the profile of guys who act distant and disinterested precisely because they like the girl somewhat. Adam started genuinely liking Hannah when she started sticking up for herself.

Yeah, I don't know what's so out of character about it.

I actually think Adam liked her even before that. I got the impression that he was really happy with Hannah's doorway confession, but kept his distance because a big part of that speech was Hannah repeating "I don't want a boyfriend" to him. In this ep, he basically called her out that he's been the distanced guy because that's what Hannah seems to want out of him. I think the conversation with Tako pretty much confirmed that. Tako says anybody who knows Adam would know that he's in AA and loves books, which implies that he's not actually that distant with people. He's only like that with Hannah because he's unsure if Hannah even considers him a friend.

The show basically reverses our perception of Adam by revealing that we've only been seeing Hannah's version of him, not his actual self ("I've never seen him outside his house... I've never seen him in a shirt!").

Adam Driver's excellent.

Irish
05-29-2012, 05:30 PM
If A was going to be vulnerable, wouldn't he have done so when H poured her little 1-dimensional heart out to him during their "break up"? Instead he decided to push her away instead of continuing to string her along. I don't see him doing that if what he really wanted was emotional closeness. Them being in a relationship isn't going to somehow fix the fact that she doesn't really get him or even really want to. He should know that...

There's a couple of different ways of looking at the character, and unfortunately part of the challenge is that chunks of him seem vast underwritten (we don't know how he and Hannah met, how and why they have no friends in common, why and how they can manage to have zero interaction outside his place, etc. So in a lot of ways, the character lacks the larger context that we need to really make assumptions about him).

My take on their entire relationship has been that it's primarily about control between two incredibly self involved people. Up until now, every scene between them has been all about him controlling her. All of her actions go toward fulfilling his needs, never her own (even the pseudo dominatrix estuff was playing into a mastubatory fantasy which he initiatived and directed).

Most of what she says to him is a passive aggressive way to get what she wants ("I don't want a boyfriend", when that's exactly what she wants), or needle a reaction out of him ("I was having sex with a pharmacist." "Was it weird when I told you that?" She wants him to yell "How could you do this to me!", get some kind of emotional declaration, and goes about it in ways that carry almost no risk).

So it's interesting that you'd ask why he wouldn't take the chance to be vulnerable when she came around with the "I don't want a boyfriend, but I really do" speech, because I think that's how a more emotionally well adjusted person would react -- ie, making themselves vulnerable in turn to achieve emotional parity with someone they care about.

But the maladjusted, self involved egoist is going to protect themselves from any display of raw emotion and then turn it to their advantage. It's never "I'll give you want I want because I care about you," it's "Oh, I have something you want! Well now, these are my conditions."

From Adam's viewpoint, it's never been about emotional closeness. The final scene in the last show jars because, at face value, him saying he'll play the boyfriend role doesn't give him anything he doesn't already have (ie, idle conversation and sex on demand, and total control).

But I feel like the entire build up here has been an emotional game of chicken between two control freaks approaching the same problem two different ways, and they've been waiting to see who blinks first. Hannah just goaded Adam into a declaration, and without her having to risk her own feelings (contrast her wormy approach to someone just stating "I love you" or even "I care about you, and this is what I need from this ...").

Another way of looking at it? This is a 30 minute weekly show with writing strength that seems to vary from scene to scene and week to week. There may be more than on instance where Durham isn't doing a very good job.

Sycophant
05-29-2012, 05:34 PM
BTW, her name's Dunham with an "N."

romantisaurusrex
05-29-2012, 06:49 PM
There's a couple of different ways of looking at the character, and unfortunately part of the challenge is that chunks of him seem vast underwritten (we don't know how he and Hannah met, how and why they have no friends in common, why and how they can manage to have zero interaction outside his place, etc. So in a lot of ways, the character lacks the larger context that we need to really make assumptions about him).

My take on their entire relationship has been that it's primarily about control between two incredibly self involved people. Up until now, every scene between them has been all about him controlling her. All of her actions go toward fulfilling his needs, never her own (even the pseudo dominatrix estuff was playing into a mastubatory fantasy which he initiatived and directed).

Most of what she says to him is a passive aggressive way to get what she wants ("I don't want a boyfriend", when that's exactly what she wants), or needle a reaction out of him ("I was having sex with a pharmacist." "Was it weird when I told you that?" She wants him to yell "How could you do this to me!", get some kind of emotional declaration, and goes about it in ways that carry almost no risk).

So it's interesting that you'd ask why he wouldn't take the chance to be vulnerable when she came around with the "I don't want a boyfriend, but I really do" speech, because I think that's how a more emotionally well adjusted person would react -- ie, making themselves vulnerable in turn to achieve emotional parity with someone they care about.

But the maladjusted, self involved egoist is going to protect themselves from any display of raw emotion and then turn it to their advantage. It's never "I'll give you want I want because I care about you," it's "Oh, I have something you want! Well now, these are my conditions."

From Adam's viewpoint, it's never been about emotional closeness. The final scene in the last show jars because, at face value, him saying he'll play the boyfriend role doesn't give him anything he doesn't already have (ie, idle conversation and sex on demand, and total control).

But I feel like the entire build up here has been an emotional game of chicken between two control freaks approaching the same problem two different ways, and they've been waiting to see who blinks first. Hannah just goaded Adam into a declaration, and without her having to risk her own feelings (contrast her wormy approach to someone just stating "I love you" or even "I care about you, and this is what I need from this ...").

Yeah it's just weird that her obvious "I don't want a boyfriend but I actually really do" declaration didn't make him blink, but somehow her "I'm blaming you for the fact that I never showed interest in really getting to know you" did, because the former was way more attractive/sympathetic I guess. I don't buy that he didn't believe she wanted him to commit to her after the declaration, it was way too transparent.


Another way of looking at it? This is a 30 minute weekly show with writing strength that seems to vary from scene to scene and week to week. There may be more than on instance where Durham isn't doing a very good job.
Yeah I think we might be dissecting this more than is intended, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop. :)

Irish
05-29-2012, 07:47 PM
Yeah it's just weird that her obvious "I don't want a boyfriend but I actually really do" declaration didn't make him blink, but somehow her "I'm blaming you for the fact that I never showed interest in really getting to know you" did, because the former was way more attractive/sympathetic I guess. I don't buy that he didn't believe she wanted him to commit to her after the declaration, it was way too transparent.

In the first instance, they were in his apartment and didn't have an audience. I think that makes a difference. On top of that, in the second instance he's turning it back on her, and making his lack of response her fault, and ultimately, her sole problem. That's kind of a masterstroke in emotional manipulation, and even if it seems against his character to fill a boyfriend role, his purpose on the show -- to indulge and even encourage Hannah's worst tendencies about herself -- is served perfectly by that scene.

I agree that it doesn't completely play well & I feel I'm reaching a bit trying to make it work.


Yeah I think we might be dissecting this more than is intended, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop. :)

Hehe, me either. One of things I've been trying to figure out is if Durham is trying to be, in some small sense, an actual "voice of her generation" and has something to say. I keep looking for thematic threads and coming up more or less empty. So I'm not sure if it's there and I'm missing it, or it's not there at all and the show is trying to fill another purpose.

elixir
05-29-2012, 09:12 PM
BTW, her name's Dunham with an "N."

Durham is trying to be, in some small sense, an actual "voice of her generation" and has something to say.
lols

No, I don't think she is. But that doesn't mean she isn't saying anything. As for thematic threads...this isn't Mad Men. But I'm sure you could pull a few out there if that's what you're looking for.

And I had no problem with the whole Adam/Hannah thing, though as to why as already been said above. I mean, like has been mentioned, we've seen Adam filtered almost completely through Hannah until now, and I saw (forget who? Sepinwall maybe?) someone say that it'd be interesting to go back and watch the beginning scenes with more of the info we have in mind, and I agree...I'm excited to see where this goes.

number8
05-29-2012, 09:15 PM
It's because Irish keeps imagining Kevin Costner's face on her body.

Irish
05-29-2012, 10:30 PM
No, I don't think she is. But that doesn't mean she isn't saying anything. As for thematic threads...this isn't Mad Men. But I'm sure you could pull a few out there if that's what you're looking for.

So then, what do you think she is saying?

You don't have to be as subtle and finely grained as Mad Men to present themes and a specific worldview, and I don't think it's an either/ or proposition. (Uh oh, Marcia is anorexic this week! And next, Uncle Ned is a closeted drunk!)

Plenty of 30 minute shows -- from MASH to Cosby to The Simpsons to Seinfeld -- had plenty to say about the worlds their character inhabited. Mostly, yeah, their primary purpose were the laughs, but there's also a definite point of view being presented in each of them.

Durham has the only a handful of episodes to her credit so far compared to their multi-year runs, but I'm also not getting the sense that she has, well, any specific point to make or any kind of worldview at all. This is disappointing given the show's apparent ambition, the press it received, and even the grand, broad reach of its title.

Maybe it's just supposed to be throwaway entertainment, thirty minutes of distraction at the end of the weekend. In that case, it needs to be funnier. A lot funnier.

elixir
05-29-2012, 11:01 PM
I'm not sure I really would call Mad Men subtle anymore, as much as I love it.

Well, first off, I find the show absolutely hilarious. So.

But also, I'm not sure she's trying to present a specific worldview necessarily so much as show the lives of the main characters (which, then of course, will have to say something about them, no?). I mean, Dunham, to me, adeptly points out their insecurities and self-absorptions (in different ways for different characters) and shows how that affects how they act and react to things. I'm not the first one to say it, but the relationship w/ Adam and Hannah is unlike anything I've really seen on TV before; I think it's great. And in general the show focuses on sex in a way I also haven't really seen...so if you want to know what she's saying, you can look the dozens of reviews written but more insightful and eloquent writers than I, but I enjoy the show for, yes, its humor, and also moments like the dancing at the end of episode 3 or the smile that comes across Hannah's face at the end of the latest episode (the show often has good endings, huh?), among many other things. And yeah, it's very well shot, too.

The show is definitely working for me.

romantisaurusrex
05-30-2012, 12:02 AM
In the first instance, they were in his apartment and didn't have an audience. I think that makes a difference. On top of that, in the second instance he's turning it back on her, and making his lack of response her fault, and ultimately, her sole problem. That's kind of a masterstroke in emotional manipulation, and even if it seems against his character to fill a boyfriend role, his purpose on the show -- to indulge and even encourage Hannah's worst tendencies about herself -- is served perfectly by that scene.

I agree that it doesn't completely play well & I feel I'm reaching a bit trying to make it work.

No I think you're getting at something with Adam wanting more of an ability to manipulate Hannah. While it's true that she never asked a lot about him, she never suggested that she didn't want to get to know him better, and most people in a sexual relationship would gradually share more and more of themselves without the degree of aloofness Adam put on. He can't in all fairness blame someone who is texting him without response for weeks on end for not being open enough, but that's exactly what he did. And he loved the fact that he could show up Marnie after she obnoxiously told him off.




Hehe, me either. One of things I've been trying to figure out is if Durham is trying to be, in some small sense, an actual "voice of her generation" and has something to say. I keep looking for thematic threads and coming up more or less empty. So I'm not sure if it's there and I'm missing it, or it's not there at all and the show is trying to fill another purpose.

She definitely is trying to do this IMO. She is trying to highlight how place-less modern girls are...regardless of whether or not Hannah is going to be able to be financially independent, all of the girls' emotional dependencies are quite evident. They are malleable, confused, and deeply flawed. It is a far cry from the typical young woman portrayed on TV as sexually powerful and at her core okay with herself. I think this demographic more than any other is often portrayed as who we want them to be rather than who they are.

DavidSeven
06-01-2012, 01:07 AM
James Franco chimes in on Girls (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-franco/girls-hbo-lena-dunham_b_1556078.html)



I worked at McDonalds, and my first suggestion to Hannah would be this: get a fucking job. If you really want to have experiences to write about, go to work; and if you really want to be an artist, take responsibility for yourself and wait some tables. You might mature a little in the process.

...

I've read comments about Girls that said, in a nutshell, "I like the show, but I can't see me in the show." I feel the same way. The guys in the show are the biggest bunch of losers I've ever seen. There is a drip who gets dumped because he bores his girlfriend; a dad who hits on his babysitter; a bevy of wussy hipsters who are just grist for the insatiable lust of the too-cool girl with the British accent; and the king of them all, the shirtless dude who talks funny and hides his stomach all the time. I know this sorry representation of men is fair payback for the endless parade of airheaded women on the West Coast male counterpart to Girls, Entourage, which in turn was fair payback for the cast of male dorks on Sex in the City. (They seemed like dorks to me, at least, on the occasions when my ex-girlfriend tuned in while I happened to be around.)


The rest isn't as harsh toward the show, though none of it's really glowing. I pretty much disagree with his entire take and think he's focusing on entirely the wrong things, but everyone's entitled to an opinion.

romantisaurusrex
06-01-2012, 01:51 AM
James Franco chimes in on Girls (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-franco/girls-hbo-lena-dunham_b_1556078.html)



The rest isn't as harsh toward the show, though none of it's really glowing. I pretty much disagree with his entire take and think he's focusing on entirely the wrong things, but everyone's entitled to an opinion.

White male in crisis because a show isn't about him...

DavidSeven
06-01-2012, 02:03 AM
Calling Entourage the "West Coast male counterpart to Girls" is just straight dumb. As is his qualifier to having seen snippets of Sex and the City.

Irish
06-01-2012, 03:17 AM
I wouldn't have quite framed it the same way, but I think he's right -- at least as far as the way the male characters in this show are written most of the time.

Ie, that they don't sound like guys, but guys written by women. Sex and the City had this same problem.

Entourage seems almost like a different category, though. Superficially it's similar (ensemble cast focusing on a single gender) but the show's tone always seemed more slanted toward straight wish fulfillment fantasy.

number8
06-01-2012, 03:20 AM
Utter nonsense. I recognize the guys entirely.

Sycophant
06-01-2012, 03:34 AM
Do I know guys who act exactly like the guys she writes? No. But I recognize qualities of myself and other in them.

Irish
06-01-2012, 03:34 AM
Utter nonsense. I recognize the guys entirely.

^ Drunk post. :P

romantisaurusrex
06-01-2012, 08:15 PM
She definitely is trying to do this IMO. She is trying to highlight how place-less modern girls are...regardless of whether or not Hannah is going to be able to be financially independent, all of the girls' emotional dependencies are quite evident. They are malleable, confused, and deeply flawed. It is a far cry from the typical young woman portrayed on TV as sexually powerful and at her core okay with herself. I think this demographic more than any other is often portrayed as who we want them to be rather than who they are.

I actually kept thinking about this and the show and what she's trying to do in my opinion, and collected my thoughts much better in this (http://onedimensionalgirl.blogspot.co m/2012/06/animal-spirits-to-be-edited-later.html) essay, if anyone wants to read it. It's not about the show, but the show got me thinking about the topic.

Pop Trash
06-02-2012, 07:32 AM
I feel bad for Andrew Bujalski. He pretty much invented Lena Dunham's career in 2002 with Funny Haha.

Adam
06-02-2012, 04:44 PM
This is one of the most irritating shows I've ever sorta liked. Think I'm gonna take a break, though, yeah. I'd love it if it was a lot more focused on Lena Dunham's character like that episode where she went home, because that's been by far the best episode for me. James Franco is kind of right; most of these characters are really terrible

Adam Driver = 2012 Timothy Carey

DavidSeven
06-02-2012, 07:08 PM
I feel bad for Andrew Bujalski. He pretty much invented Lena Dunham's career in 2002 with Funny Haha.

I don't see it. Outside of generally dealing with the broad topic of mid-20s malaise, Girls and Funny Haha have virtually nothing in common. I don't even think they share the same perspective on the topic. Plus, Dunham is clearly more interested in characterization and dynamic filmmaking than Bujalski.

Edit: still haven't seen Tiny Furniture. Was that grouped in the mumblecore genre?

number8
06-02-2012, 07:27 PM
It did, rather incorrectly. One of the most defining things about mumblecore is the improvisational quality. Dunham's dialogue is very tightly scripted.

Lucky
06-04-2012, 03:49 AM
Hmm I think my stock in this show is dwindling. Between this week and last, I've been having a reaction similar to when you find a group of people interesting at first, but then the novelty fades and you realize you don't care about them at all. There have been some odd character choices the past couple episodes, too. Chris O'Dowd's character's outburst was bizarre. Actually, that whole scene was bizarre. And add a golden shower for good measure (which was hilarious - I'll give credit there).

Qrazy
06-04-2012, 06:49 AM
Hmm I think my stock in this show is dwindling. Between this week and last, I've been having a reaction similar to when you find a group of people interesting at first, but then the novelty fades and you realize you don't care about them at all. There have been some odd character choices the past couple episodes, too. Chris O'Dowd's character's outburst was bizarre. Actually, that whole scene was bizarre. And add a golden shower for good measure (which was hilarious - I'll give credit there).

That was so bad.

Sxottlan
06-04-2012, 09:53 AM
Yeah wasn't sure if that was supposed to be a joke with him talking about no compromising with art and then suddenly launching into a tirade straight out of Midnight Cowboy.

Irish
06-04-2012, 01:18 PM
She really did a 180 with Adam. He's gone from controlling jerk to super supportive boyfriend in the span of two weeks.

"Hannah, don't minimize" is the kind of line Franco was talking about when he referred to some of these characters as "wussies" and "dorky."

Episode was so-so. Seemed again highly repetitive. She's developing to Adam/Hannah relationship a bit, but at the expense of all the other characters.

I'd like to see a change up with an episode where someone doesn't earnestly talk about their feelings as if they're sitting across from a $400 an hour shrink, and somebody else doesn't use inappropriate sex as a way of acting out emotionally. Can we start there?

ledfloyd
06-04-2012, 04:33 PM
being considerate of your friends emotions is considered wussy and dorky now?

that said, i don't buy hannah and adam's relationship. it seems like such a u-turn from what they've had going on all season. it makes sense on hannah's end, but not really adam's.

aside from last week's episode, this show seems to really suffer when dunham isn't behind the camera. it's weird.

Milky Joe
06-04-2012, 09:04 PM
I think it makes sense for Adam. He seems like a guy who, when he makes up his mind about something, he's going to go all-out about doing it. You want me to be your boyfriend? Ok, I'll be your boyfriend to the utmost. I'm just waiting for Hannah to get sick of him.

Irish
06-05-2012, 06:26 AM
being considerate of your friends emotions is considered wussy and dorky now?

Not exactly. While therapeutic/self help language has gone more mainstream, I'm saying it's not believable, or even likely, that a character like Adam -- a young, brash New Yorker, full of piss & vinegar -- would use it in this context.

romantisaurusrex
06-05-2012, 11:56 AM
Not exactly. While therapeutic/self help language has gone more mainstream, I'm saying it's not believable, or even likely, that a character like Adam -- a young, brash New Yorker, full of piss & vinegar -- would use it in this context.

It was definitely a reference to AA. Last episode Hannah found out that AA was a huge part about him that she wasn't expecting, and this episode he whipped it out again.

romantisaurusrex
06-06-2012, 01:13 AM
and somebody else doesn't use inappropriate sex as a way of acting out emotionally. Can we start there?

I am really tired of this too, I threw my slipper at the screen when Marnie and Jessa started making out. So done with the experimental girl/girl theme in t.v. lately and I just hated that whole story line.

Irish
06-06-2012, 12:03 PM
It was definitely a reference to AA. Last episode Hannah found out that AA was a huge part about him that she wasn't expecting, and this episode he whipped it out again.

I thought about that and I think you're right, in a sense (although the language used seems more Oprah than 12 Stepper). I'd be more willing to buy into it if Adam had ever used any "I'm working a program" kind of language before, in any context.


I am really tired of this too, I threw my slipper at the screen when Marnie and Jessa started making out. So done with the experimental girl/girl theme in t.v. lately and I just hated that whole story line.

Tying this back into what you said previously -- about the unique way young women are represented here -- this is one of my biggest frustrations with the show. It's got so much promise, yet seems so unmbitious on an episode by episode basis.

number8
06-06-2012, 12:49 PM
I didn't really think it was supposed to be them experimenting. Jessa laid out her interest pretty strongly from the beginning, and there's no sense at all that hooking up with girls is something unusual for her, while Marnie seemed more interested in having a threesome (something she's probably never done before) to shed her uptight reputation than having a girl-on-girl experience.

I sort of get what they were doing with the Chris O'Dowd character. Williamsburg, especially the waterfront area, has largely been taken over by Wall Street yuppies who buy the overpriced condos because they want to seem cool living with the art kids, forcing the hipsters to move away to places like Bushwick (where the party was last week) or Greenpoint (where Hannah and Marnie live). The portrayal—especially his making mash-ups as a hobby—is solidly accurate. But yeah, they didn't really take him anywhere interesting, and his outburst was more bizarre than pointed or funny.

romantisaurusrex
06-06-2012, 12:58 PM
I didn't really think it was supposed to be them experimenting. Jessa laid out her interest pretty strongly from the beginning, and there's no sense at all that hooking up with girls is something unusual for her, while Marnie seemed more interested in having a threesome (something she's probably never done before) to shed her uptight reputation than having a girl-on-girl experience.


You just want a fight. ;)

Even if Marnie was just interested in having a threesome, still a tired girl/girl theme, and there's nothing in the show to suggest how much or how little Jessa has hooked up with girls.

number8
06-06-2012, 01:16 PM
You just want a fight. ;)

Aaaand I shall prove you right with this:


Even if Marnie was just interested in having a threesome, still a tired girl/girl theme, and there's nothing in the show to suggest how much or how little Jessa has hooked up with girls.

Exactly! So why should we immediately assume it's out of the ordinary or experimental for her?

romantisaurusrex
06-06-2012, 02:34 PM
Aaaand I shall prove you right with this:



Exactly! So why should we immediately assume it's out of the ordinary or experimental for her?


You are so stretching! :P We should assume it's out of the ordinary because we've followed her plot line for weeks and she's had encounters with multiple men and no women. And because last week she said "I can't keep doing stuff like this" to a man, and the next week she's all over Marnie.

number8
06-06-2012, 03:25 PM
You are so stretching! :P We should assume it's out of the ordinary because we've followed her plot line for weeks and she's had encounters with multiple men and no women. And because last week she said "I can't keep doing stuff like this" to a man, and the next week she's all over Marnie.

Well, I assume she's primarily into men. That doesn't necessarily mean she's not experienced in women. I've got a friend who exclusively dates girls and never seeks out men, but when presented with the opportunity to have sex with a cute boy, she'd go for it, because why not? I read Jessa as such from her reaction to the kiss. She was surprised at first, then pleased and went for it. Whereas Marnie was pretty desperate about it, less about wanting to kiss her and more about wanting to stay in that situation that was developing, in order to refute the image she's blaming for her breakup.

But now I'm not sure what I'm arguing anymore :lol:. I guess I didn't see it as surprising or unusual so I'm caught off guard by it being an issue. We shall see if it turns into anything at all next week. I'll only stretch it this far this time. ;)

number8
06-06-2012, 06:22 PM
Also, I don't really find Adam all that different from before.

romantisaurusrex
06-07-2012, 01:38 AM
Also, I don't really find Adam all that different from before.

No, but he is becoming the most consistently good part of the show, which is a problem for Dunham considering what she's trying to do.

number8
06-07-2012, 02:22 AM
What's that?

romantisaurusrex
06-07-2012, 02:29 AM
What's that?

God! Make a show about girls.

number8
06-07-2012, 02:34 AM
God! Make a show about girls.

Oh right.

Yes.

Irish
06-07-2012, 04:24 AM
No, but he is becoming the most consistently good part of the show, which is a problem for Dunham considering what she's trying to do.

The guy playing Adam graduated from Juilliard. Two of the "girls" are first time actors, another has a single screen credit (Dunham's Tiny Furniture).

I figure that accounts for the differenes in performances.

romantisaurusrex
06-11-2012, 08:16 AM
Adam's monologue while he was doing sit-ups about "there's no fucking meat" is the reason why this show is great.

Irish
06-11-2012, 12:16 PM
Adam's monologue while he was doing sit-ups about "there's no fucking meat" is the reason why this show is great.

That was the only dialogue scene that approached any level of authenticity.

I yelled at my tv when the ex-employer shows up at Jessa's place and tells her these little personal dramas are "keeping her from being who she was meant to be." What a load of total nonsense.

Likewise the argument between Marnie and Hannah, which felt totally contrived.

My only interest at this point is figuring out Dunham's overall gameplan, by creating a character that's almost totally unlikeable.

romantisaurusrex
06-11-2012, 10:30 PM
That was the only dialogue scene that approached any level of authenticity.

I yelled at my tv when the ex-employer shows up at Jessa's place and tells her these little personal dramas are "keeping her from being who she was meant to be." What a load of total nonsense.

Likewise the argument between Marnie and Hannah, which felt totally contrived.

My only interest at this point is figuring out Dunham's overall gameplan, by creating a character that's almost totally unlikeable.


Yes the Jessa scene was pretty bad. I still was okay with the Hannah/Marnie stuff, though. It felt a lot like real "I want to hear myself talk while saying nothing" drama, and it fit in with Hannah realizing that the real things she has to say at this point are going to be trivial.

number8
06-12-2012, 04:36 AM
That episode was uncomfortably close to home. I really hate readings. And book launches, fucking god.

Lucky
06-12-2012, 10:29 AM
I actually liked the Hannah/Marnie conflict as I've been Marnie in that scene before. Well, not quite do dramatically, but similar. The yogurt line was definitely something that would have come out of my mouth verbatim. When you're at work all day (compounded by a job you hate) coming home to someone who does nothing, you have a false sense of superiority and a short fuse with them. You also feel entitled to their gratitude, so I thought that scene played pretty true on Marnie's end.

number8
06-12-2012, 03:07 PM
I don't know what's so contrived about the fight, too. Seems like a perfectly realistic roommate blowup (that is to say, it was over nothing), especially Marnie's "I can tell you a million things wrong with you, but I won't." What I thought was really spot on was how both of them think the other is the inconsiderate roommate.

The yogurt thing reminds me of two of my friends who just went their separate ways recently. These two girls were really tight friends until about several months after they moved in together. Passive-aggressiveness came bubbling out, they started actively avoiding each other in the house, and then they moved out and now their friendship is damaged. There were a lot of talk about this problem and that problem with their friendship dynamic, but as far as I can tell of the situation, the powder keg finally got lit up because one of them used a hand towel as a dish towel (or the other way around, I forgot) and the other snapped big time.

romantisaurusrex
06-12-2012, 03:31 PM
I don't know what's so contrived about the fight, too. Seems like a perfectly realistic roommate blowup (that is to say, it was over nothing), especially Marnie's "I can tell you a million things wrong with you, but I won't." What I thought was really spot on was how both of them think the other is the inconsiderate roommate.

The yogurt thing reminds me of two of my friends who just went their separate ways recently. These two girls were really tight friends until about several months after they moved in together. Passive-aggressiveness came bubbling out, they started actively avoiding each other in the house, and then they moved out and now their friendship is damaged. There were a lot of talk about this problem and that problem with their friendship dynamic, but as far as I can tell of the situation, the powder keg finally got lit up because one of them used a hand towel as a dish towel (or the other way around, I forgot) and the other snapped big time.


:lol: Yes, this might be sexist, but these are the kinds of fights girls have when they live together which is why I 100% prefer having male roommates.

And Lucky, I'm with you on the false sense of superiority. One time after spending a ton on groceries including litter for my roommates' kittens I came home to her soaking her hair in some Cosmo renewal bullshit that included all the egg whites I'd just bought and I snapped. It happens.

Irish
06-12-2012, 05:49 PM
My feeling is that Marnie didn't earn her line, "I'm done. I don't want to live with you anymore."

At the scene level, the dialogue played well. It really did sound like two angry people chucking half-rationalized resentments at one another. But the payoff was forced, and contrived. In scene, there wasn't a big enough build up to Marnie's declaration, and out of it, her decision makes almost no sense at all.

In number8's anecdote about his two friends, there's beats. There's a chain of events that follow one another and lead to a bad conclusion. But half the beats 8 included are missing from Dunham's episode. There's no build up to that scene. It's just shoved into the series with barely any set up at all (Marnie complaining about Hannah to a half remembered friend at a party?).

She's done this before, with the end-of-episode event at the bar when Charlie and Ray "perform" lines from Hannah's journal. That didn't make any sense either, but Dunham needed the drama because she likes to end each episode with something that pops.

DavidSeven
06-13-2012, 05:18 AM
The Hannah/Marnie scene was great. To me, Hannah's declaration that being a "good friend" to Marnie was really low on her list of priorities was more than enough to understand Marnie's "I'm done" response. It doesn't matter that the entire argument was over trivial nonsense. Once one party crosses the line by saying that maintaining the relationship is no longer important to them, it's hard to immediately recover from that. It doesn't even matter if there's evidence to back the statement up. It's basically the worst thing you can say to a best friend or significant other. I've been there and seen it happen with others. Scene rang very true to me.

The Jessa stuff felt way too "written." About on par in bad-ness with the O'Dowd stuff last week.

Milky Joe
06-13-2012, 05:21 AM
Jessa's employer recounting her dream got a big laugh out of me, but the "be who you were meant to be" was a fairly weak climax.

number8
06-13-2012, 02:56 PM
Also, not enough Shoshanna. But her one scene was fantastic.

Irish
06-14-2012, 07:01 AM
AV Club: How Girls challenges the masculine expectations of "good TV" (http://www.avclub.com/articles/how-girls-challenges-the-masculine-expectations-of,81266/)

ledfloyd
06-19-2012, 10:57 PM
nothing on the finale guys? i just caught up with it. stunning television.

romantisaurusrex
06-19-2012, 11:48 PM
it was dec.

Lucky
06-20-2012, 12:06 AM
I enjoyed the use of Lady's "Yankin'".

amberlita
06-20-2012, 12:29 AM
nothing on the finale guys? i just caught up with it. stunning television.

Loved loved LOVED the fight between Adam and Hannah. Except for him getting clipped by a car. Dumb.

Qrazy
06-20-2012, 12:56 AM
nothing on the finale guys? i just caught up with it. stunning television.

Hrm, I thought it was pretty bad. Whereas most Girls eps only have a few moments that strain credulity I thought this ep was chock full of them. That Adam/Hannah conversation was pretty good but everything else ehhh.

ThePlashyBubbler
06-20-2012, 04:41 AM
Agreed with Qrazy, particularly the wedding. Granted the point was that it came out of nowhere, but it felt almost like a dream sequence it was so disconnected from the last time O'Dowd was around. The explanation didn't work for me, and the weird, goofy vibe was frankly just weird.

ledfloyd
06-20-2012, 04:43 AM
it seemed in tune with jessa's character to me.

NickGlass
06-20-2012, 05:17 PM
Hrm, I thought it was pretty bad. Whereas most Girls eps only have a few moments that strain credulity I thought this ep was chock full of them. That Adam/Hannah conversation was pretty good but everything else ehhh.

This.

Reading the effusive A.V. Club recap (http://www.avclub.com/articles/she-did,81178/) of this finale really, really makes me question what I think of the show on the whole...in a negative light. It's essentially an essay that attempts to justify the shows "bold" (read: audaciously unrealistic) choices.

ledfloyd
06-20-2012, 07:48 PM
i think the piece by Matt Zoller Seitz (http://www.vulture.com/2012/06/matt-zoller-seitz-season-one-reappraisal-of-girls.html) is a better appraisal.

Qrazy
06-21-2012, 07:12 AM
This.

Reading the effusive A.V. Club recap (http://www.avclub.com/articles/she-did,81178/) of this finale really, really makes me question what I think of the show on the whole...in a negative light. It's essentially an essay that attempts to justify the shows "bold" (read: audaciously unrealistic) choices.

Yeah, for me the show's only major strength is it's verisimilitude, whenever it abandons that it loses my interest. As an aesthetic experience it's competent but not overly interesting. The value of the show lies in it's honest depiction (via dialogue, setting and acting) of the relationships of 20 somethings bumbling their way through life.

ledfloyd
06-21-2012, 04:37 PM
you can get at honest depictions of things even while abandoning versimilitude, but you already know this.

DavidSeven
06-21-2012, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I don't know. Jessa, Marnie and Shoshanna didn't feel like real people in this episode at all. They felt like TV characters bending to the will of a writers' room. I did not recognize the people in this episode with the exception of Adam. I mean, I didn't hate the episode, and the Adam/Hannah stuff was still rock solid, but I thought there were so many things about it that were concerning. I just didn't buy Jessa's wedding, Marnie's aggressiveness with the meek SNL guy, or Shoshanna's naive virgin act being turned to 11. I really felt like these scenes wouldn't have felt misplaced in an episode of Sex in the City or some other standard TV show. They just felt so damn manufactured. Where's the authenticity at?

Qrazy
06-21-2012, 07:28 PM
you can get at honest depictions of things even while abandoning versimilitude, but you already know this.

Of course you can, but you need consistency of vision. Welles, Fellini and Kurosawa films are honest and not all that close to life. Girls is close to life though and so it's honest when it's really close and inconsistent when it's just throwing plot threads at the wall to spice up drama.

romantisaurusrex
06-21-2012, 07:33 PM
I also find it ironic that Adam gave that speech about "don't think if they're not laughing they're not feeling anything" because as the show's gotten less realistic it's gotten funnier, imo. I giggled the whole way through the finale.

Milky Joe
06-22-2012, 12:17 AM
Best episode of the season by my count. And funniest. I love Shoshanna. That wedding was wonderfully absurd.

number8
06-23-2012, 01:02 AM
I also find it ironic that Adam gave that speech about "don't think if they're not laughing they're not feeling anything" because as the show's gotten less realistic it's gotten funnier, imo. I giggled the whole way through the finale.

I agree. This and the Bushwick party episode exemplified that. Hilarious finale.

"My dress matches my shoes! Kinda!"

number8
06-24-2012, 08:24 PM
Saw a movie last night and Adam was in it. Makes me appreciate the fact that the character's speech pattern and demeanor really are an intentional act.

number8
08-29-2012, 03:14 PM
Saw permit signs on my way out this morning saying that they're filming on my street tomorrow.

Ivan Drago
01-08-2013, 11:16 PM
I'm four episodes into the first season of this show and I'm loving it. I'm finally motivated to check out Tiny Furniture, too.

Thirdmango
01-08-2013, 11:30 PM
I'm four episodes into the first season of this show and I'm loving it. I'm finally motivated to check out Tiny Furniture, too.

I like Girls, I hated Tiny Furniture.

EyesWideOpen
01-09-2013, 12:55 AM
I'm four episodes into the first season of this show and I'm loving it. I'm finally motivated to check out Tiny Furniture, too.

I just watched the first five and this is pretty much my favorite show ever.

ledfloyd
01-09-2013, 03:05 AM
I like Girls, I hated Tiny Furniture.
what he said.

Ivan Drago
01-14-2013, 04:30 AM
Finished the first season yesterday morning and loved it.

Caught the pilot on HBO Go after the Golden Globes. Great start to the season, and Donald Glover having a role this season is a plus.

number8
01-15-2013, 03:17 AM
Wow, I thought Glover was guesting on one ep. Didn't realize his role is that big. Also, Andrew Rannells being upgraded to a regular is a good decision.

Spinal
01-23-2013, 05:25 AM
Never expected I would be watching this show, but it's pretty hilarious.

Spinal
01-23-2013, 07:12 AM
Aaaaaand I just watched the first five episodes in one sitting. Didn't intend to do that.

Lucky
01-23-2013, 08:26 PM
The Missy Elliott line in the last episode was great. Actually the entire episode was funnier than usual. I watched it twice.

number8
01-23-2013, 08:30 PM
I hope that's not the last we see of Sandy...

ledfloyd
01-23-2013, 08:44 PM
Aaaaaand I just watched the first five episodes in one sitting. Didn't intend to do that.

all adventurous women do.

Henry Gale
01-23-2013, 09:55 PM
Yeah, completely agree about this week's. Not sure this show has ever delivered laughs as consistently in one episode, all the way up until the final seconds when you're not sure exactly how Hannah is processing Adam being taken away.

slqrick
01-24-2013, 12:08 AM
I'm enjoying this season much more, seems the writing has been tighter in these first couple of episodes. I think it's also that the show's done a good job of expanding the secondary characters, so it's not just constantly focused on Hannah, which really bothered me early on. The scene with Hannah's ex and his dude was particularly funny. I'm still not a fan of Adam, but I chuckled really loudly at "You called the po po?!"

number8
03-08-2013, 04:19 PM
Dunham fired a number of the writers going into S3.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2013/03/8178843/lena-dunham-quietly-shakes-writing-operation-girls


But the staff changing does seem to represent a shift for "Girls." Last spring, one of the show's writers, Deborah Schoeneman, described Dunham's approach to the writer's room in an interview (http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/culture/2012/04/5780909/new-york-seen-ground-floor-apatower?page=all) with Capital:


"I think that what Lena and Jenni were interested in were writers who had a lot of real-life experience," said Schoeneman. "They were not interested in a lot of writers who had lots of credits. They were interested in getting a diverse group of people and people who had a lot of life experience, people who were interested in sharing their life experiences, who were oversharers, if you want."

Spinal
03-14-2013, 04:24 PM
Next Episode Of 'Girls' To Feature Lena Dunham Shitting Herself During Gyno Exam While Eating A Burrito (http://www.theonion.com/articles/next-episode-of-girls-to-feature-lena-dunham-shitt,31661/)


“When a naked Hannah dribbled hot sauce all over herself in front of the doctor, shit in every corner of the office, cried, became angry with the doctor, had sex with the doctor, finished her burrito, had sex with the doctor again, shit herself again, and then realized who she was really angry at and sexually attracted to was Adam, I just closed my eyes and said, ‘Thank you.’ These are real girls with real bodies doing things that real girls do.”

Thirdmango
03-14-2013, 05:25 PM
the thing I love about that staff changing quote is it's basically exactly like her "job" in the show where they want her to just talk about sex and only want "experienced" people. It's like it's Ironic.

Also everyone should listen to the podcast by Jeff Garlin with Lena Dunham (By the Way in Conversation). It's the first time I've actually really liked Dunham specifically.

Gamblor
08-24-2013, 06:52 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/1229847_512172382193699_128568 8134_n.jpg

Dukefrukem
01-10-2014, 03:34 PM
Holy comment section Batman!

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/01/09/girls-producers-defend-nudity/

ledfloyd
01-10-2014, 03:46 PM
Jesus Christ. I couldn't get out of there quick enough.

number8
01-10-2014, 03:49 PM
Butters already accurately analyzed the use of nudity on Game of Thrones in that three-parter parody.

Sycophant
01-10-2014, 05:27 PM
I know Konner said she was in "a rage spiral" later but nothing in the article points to Dunham being anything other than principled and collected, if not a bit indignant. It doesn't sound as discordant and hostile from the description as the broad statements about it seem to be getting at. But without video or another account, who knows? Question was awful.

Comments section 100% upsetting.

One of the comments I saw (leaving now, never to go back) mentioned it got mentioned on Drudge. I guess that explains the makeup of the section.

number8
01-10-2014, 05:45 PM
Honestly, some dude essentially said to her face, "I'm okay with these attractive girls getting naked, but you shouldn't be naked." If anything Dunham and Apatow were being too kind to him with their responses. The other producer had the correct reaction to that question.

Dukefrukem
01-10-2014, 05:56 PM
Drudge is where i got the link.

Kurosawa Fan
01-10-2014, 07:10 PM
Honestly, some dude essentially said to her face, "I'm okay with these attractive girls getting naked, but you shouldn't be naked." If anything Dunham and Apatow were being too kind to him with their responses. The other producer had the correct reaction to that question.

I haven't heard audio of the question, only read the transcript of the question in his response (http://tv.yahoo.com/news/judd-apatow-lena-dunham-mad-asking-why-she-025943887.html), but unless he used a tone that strongly implied what you credit him as essentially saying to her face, it isn't even close to the truth. Reading his quote in transcript form and the conversation thereafter with Apatow, I see nothing wrong with his question, and find the panel's reaction perplexing.

EDIT: I should add that I think Dunham's response to his question was logical and satisfactory. I just don't understand the defensiveness and the shitstorm that followed.

DavidSeven
01-10-2014, 07:25 PM
I haven't looked into this much, but isn't he essentially giving a pass to the nudity on "Game of Thrones" because it's titillating (i.e., the actresses are hawt) whereas he's describing Dunham's nudity as pointless because there's no titillation factor (i.e., he doesn't think she's that hawt). Honestly, I can understand the thinking, but I can also understand why it would be offensive to pose the question to her face.

number8
01-10-2014, 07:27 PM
“I don’t get the purpose of all the nudity on the show. By you particularly. I feel like I’m walking into a trap where you say no one complains about the nudity on ‘Game of Thrones,’ but I get why they’re doing it. They’re doing it to be salacious. To titillate people. And your character is often naked at random times for no reason.”

The guy seems to acknowledge that the nudity in GoT is gratuitous, but that's understandable because it's to titillate people. He then implies that Dunham's nudity cannot be justified the same way. How is that not him essentially saying "you're not titillating enough to be gratuitously naked on the show"?

D_Davis
01-10-2014, 07:30 PM
I did that in the Community thread and I wasn't really sure if he actually got the joke. :lol:

If he didn't laugh he got the joke.

Watashi
01-10-2014, 08:02 PM
I think Lena Dunham is hawt and I enjoy seeing her naked.

ledfloyd
01-10-2014, 10:10 PM
Me too, but the idea that people that aren't "hawt" should have to justify being naked in media is annoying. Which is the problem with the question which is basically "you're not titillating, so why are you not wearing clothes?"

EyesWideOpen
01-10-2014, 11:15 PM
I think Lena Dunham is hawt and I enjoy seeing her naked.

Same here. I have a huge crush on her.

Kurosawa Fan
01-12-2014, 04:09 AM
“I don’t get the purpose of all the nudity on the show. By you particularly. I feel like I’m walking into a trap where you say no one complains about the nudity on ‘Game of Thrones,’ but I get why they’re doing it. They’re doing it to be salacious. To titillate people. And your character is often naked at random times for no reason.”

The guy seems to acknowledge that the nudity in GoT is gratuitous, but that's understandable because it's to titillate people. He then implies that Dunham's nudity cannot be justified the same way. How is that not him essentially saying "you're not titillating enough to be gratuitously naked on the show"?

The nudity on GoT is rarely just nudity. It's usually accompanied by sex, which provides the titillation. He says that Dunham's nudity is random, and questions why she inserts it into the show so often. At no point does he mention her attractiveness nor does he imply it. He calls her out specifically because she is nude so often.

Spinal
01-12-2014, 07:07 AM
It does bother me that there is an inconsistency to the show the way that the actresses deal with nudity. You have Dunham who will be naked all over the place and play ping pong and shit. And then you have that other actress who holds her hands over her breasts throughout the entirety of a sex scene. I want consistency, damn it.

Spinal
01-12-2014, 07:11 AM
Anyway, I've always thought that the purpose of Dunham's nudity was quite clear. Not so much to titillate as to present a decidedly average body type in a positive light. I've always thought it was charming and effective.

Qrazy
01-12-2014, 07:23 AM
Personally I've always found HBO's use of nudity in general excessive and lazy. Girls is just another example in a long line of such abuses.

Sven
01-12-2014, 02:55 PM
I've never seen Girls, but the only thing I ever hear about it is the nudity, which means to me that the nudity is being used to sell the show, thereby making it just like everything else.

D_Davis
01-12-2014, 03:04 PM
I've never seen Girls, but the only thing I ever hear about it is the nudity, which means to me that the nudity is being used to sell the show, thereby making it just like everything else.

Same here. Same thing with sex and violence in Game of Thrones. It's all I ever hear people talk about. I'd rather hear people talk about how the fantasy elements are so expertly crafted.

Derek
01-12-2014, 04:44 PM
I've never seen Girls, but the only thing I ever hear about it is the nudity, which means to me that the nudity is being used to sell the show, thereby making it just like everything else.

I think that has much more to do with the number of lazy and/or misogynistic journalists out there. I hardly ever see it mentioned by fans of the show, since the show offers much more interesting things to talk about, unless it's defense of journalists making dumbass comments.

number8
01-12-2014, 04:57 PM
The nudity on GoT is rarely just nudity. It's usually accompanied by sex, which provides the titillation. He says that Dunham's nudity is random, and questions why she inserts it into the show so often. At no point does he mention her attractiveness nor does he imply it. He calls her out specifically because she is nude so often.

I disagree with it being any more random than GoT or any other HBO show (plenty of GoT nudity is not sexual, especially with the slaves and the Dothraki--there's like several Emilia Clarke bathing scenes in the first season--and most of the time Dunham's nudity on Girls is in a sexual context), but even if we grant that premise, the wording of the question, which does not mention attractiveness but also doesn't mention sex, is specifically saying that other shows use naked bodies to be titillating, and he implies that Dunham's naked body is not titillating just by positioning it as something other to that.

Watashi
01-12-2014, 05:00 PM
I like the nudity in Game of Thrones.

I like the nudity in Girls.

I like nudity.

What are we arguing about again?

Sven
01-12-2014, 05:29 PM
I think that has much more to do with the number of lazy and/or misogynistic journalists out there. I hardly ever see it mentioned by fans of the show, since the show offers much more interesting things to talk about, unless it's defense of journalists making dumbass comments.

Well, I also know many IRL people who have seen it. Even still, the show is mostly mentioned in terms of the embarrassing/crazy sex/nudity content. As far as I can tell, this is why the producers want people to watch it.

Which is fine. I have watched many things for similar and even less reasonable purposes.

Spinal
01-12-2014, 05:54 PM
I like the nudity in Game of Thrones.

I like the nudity in Girls.

I like nudity.

What are we arguing about again?

Voice of reason.

ledfloyd
01-12-2014, 06:20 PM
I think there is a ton more to the show than nudity. It's more about how millenials relate to each other and the world, sex is just a part of that.

DavidSeven
01-12-2014, 07:20 PM
I don't feel like there's that much nudity on the show relative to other things on HBO and Showtime, so the fact that people think of it as this crazy sex/nudity show is absolutely bizarre to me.

slqrick
01-12-2014, 11:08 PM
The real issue is still the race thing. I get that they're privileged white kids who don't hang out with colored folk, but if you're going to present your setting as "authentic" Brooklyn/NYC , it's bothersome to me. The Donald Glover arc didn't really help.

I could care less about the nudity. It seems trolling on Dunham's part at times, since she knows people will talk about it, but it's not really a big deal.

EyesWideOpen
01-12-2014, 11:22 PM
Well, I also know many IRL people who have seen it. Even still, the show is mostly mentioned in terms of the embarrassing/crazy sex/nudity content. As far as I can tell, this is why the producers want people to watch it.

Which is fine. I have watched many things for similar and even less reasonable purposes.

Maybe by people who don't watch the show and just read articles. I don't know anyone who watches the show who mainly mentions the crazy sex/nudity.

Benny Profane
01-13-2014, 01:06 PM
I'm more offended by her hideous tattoos than seeing her bare gelatinous physique.

Ezee E
01-15-2014, 12:30 AM
The real issue is still the race thing. I get that they're privileged white kids who don't hang out with colored folk, but if you're going to present your setting as "authentic" Brooklyn/NYC , it's bothersome to me. The Donald Glover arc didn't really help.

I could care less about the nudity. It seems trolling on Dunham's part at times, since she knows people will talk about it, but it's not really a big deal.

Brooklyn has changed!