MC Yearly Database: What's Your Flavor of Choice?

[DavidSeven]

Vote above. Sway voters below.

[transmogrifier]

I assume labeling it "snooty" means it's not your cup of tea? Anyway, it is the best choice for a more informative, but still workable, consensus system.

For example, a film with 13 yays and 13 nays could be just one of those mediocre, moderately tolerable things that people just tend to shrug at. Or it could be:

YAY: 9
yay: 3
mixed: 2
nay: 4
NAY: 8

[MadMan]

Oops, I meant to vote for "Yay/Mixed/Nay." Which makes the most sense.

Also I didn't know this place was a democracy :P

[Stay Puft]

I was about to post in the other thread that I like the current system E has going and would be fine with it continuing. However...

I also agree with trans about the PRO/pro/mixed/con/CON rating system. I found that to be a good system for consensus in the past, striking a nice balance between robust and intuitive, as Derek and trans have both described in the other thread.

[Stay Puft]

I also agree with trans about the PRO/pro/mixed/con/CON rating system.

In fact, I have cast my vote in this direction, and would be willing to organize the thread if this is the wish of the majority, or help organize, as I see I'm not the first to volunteer.

[baby doll]

Under Tranny's system we're probably going to see a lot of people vote "YAY," and then downgrade to "yay" or "mixed" once they sober up a bit. Should we pass a rule saying that all votes are final and irreversible?

[baby doll]

Also, "mixed" can mean a lot of things. I mean, I'm guess I'm mixed on The Tree of Life since it struck me as shapeless overall, but many sequences are flat out brilliant, so I'd probably vote "yay" or even "YAY" because I think it's worth going out of your way to see.

[DavidSeven]

FYI, this is unofficial poll that has absolutely no bearing on what the people who are actually doing the work are obligated to do. Also, I created the poll on my phone, after midnight, with a couple drinks in me. I'm not even sure what I was getting at with "snooty" ... perhaps a subconscious association to the old RT Critics Forum (sorry, Derek). I also apologize for not making this a public poll with a closing date.

Anyway, I sort of like Yay/Mixed/Nay (with only the Yays counting toward the "x out of # of voters" tabulation). And I sort of love in depth discussions of film rating systems.

[baby doll]

And I sort of love in depth discussions of film rating systems.We've been gradually moving towards a meta-discussion about film discussion ever since this place got started.

[Rowland]

YAY
yay
mild yay
meh
mild nay
nay
NAY

You all know this be true. :cool:

[TGM]

Under Tranny's system we're probably going to see a lot of people vote "YAY," and then downgrade to "yay" or "mixed" once they sober up a bit.

This is what I'm thinking. I think the 5 choice option just makes things needlessly more complex. The 3 choice option just adds that needed middle ground without making things more complicated than they need to be.

[Melville]

I like the yay/mixed/nay option. It preserves the simplicity of the current system while making the consensus clearer.

[Irish]

Voted status quo. Not a big fan of ratings system in general, because movies aren't something you can measure with a ruler.

Collective ratings systems are most often meaningless outside a larger context (5 stars from Duke can mean something very different than 5 stars from Spinal, but you wouldn't know that without knowing each of them pretty well).

[elixir]

The 5 options are the best to me. I'm much more interested in the difference between very positive/negative and mild positive/negative than I am on adding a mixed option (though that should be included). For instance, I would wager there's a large(r) difference between, say, Uncle Boonmee's 28 yays out of 32 and Midnight in Paris's 24 yays out of 30...maybe even with this system Uncle Boonmee would "score" higher or whatever than Rango's 32 yays out of 32.

[Melville]

Voted status quo. Not a big fan of ratings system in general, because movies aren't something you can measure with a ruler.
Saying you liked a movie, disliked it, or had mixed feelings about it doesn't have anything to do with putting a ruler on it.

[Irish]

Saying you liked a movie, disliked it, or had mixed feelings about it doesn't have anything to do with putting a ruler on it.

I was speaking more of the "snooty" option, which isn't any different than your run of the mill 5 star rating system.

For me, especially with collective ratings, the more options available the less valuable the system becomes (since given enough voters and enough time, everything ends up at around ~3 stars).

[Raiders]

Voted Flexibility. The "mixed" seems a good inclusion, but I see no reason to start in with the caps/no caps idea. The point of the database is to get a consensus for how many people liked a film; not to get a qualitative score for it. Otherwise, we might as well just use a rating system from 1 to 5.

[Melville]

I was speaking more of the "snooty" option, which isn't any different than your run of the mill 5 star rating system.

For me, especially with collective ratings, the more options available the less valuable the system becomes (since given enough voters and enough time, everything ends up at around ~3 stars).
Well, a 5 star rating system also doesn't try to reduce the movie to a measurable quantity. Nobody would say the movie had been so reduced if someone said they loved, liked, were indifferent to or mixed on, disliked, or hated it. Or maybe you are saying that. Also, the old director consensus threads on here showed that a wide range of mean scores could result even with a lot of voters.

But I do agree it's better to keep these things simple. Derek suggested in the other thread that these tallies aren't for consumer advice, but that's actually how I use them.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Oops, I meant to vote for "Yay/Mixed/Nay." Which makes the most sense.

Also I didn't know this place was a democracy :P

What did you actually vote for, since the tally is now skewed?

[Ezee E]

Status Quo.

I also take thoughts from other threads based on people's rave/hate for a movie and include it in the database. Sometimes I'm wrong, but in that case, I blame their writing. :lol:

You've all seen that I make a fair amount of mistakes throughout the year. Adding a 5-option would be awful in my opinion, and I (and probably anyone else) would be unable to do that transfer.

Flexibility is alright, but the idea isn't to get a rating out of it, but a simple, "Did people like it or not?" Sort of as Raiders mentioned.

[Dukefrukem]

Status Quo here too. Let's not make this too complicated.

However, There are alternate ways we could do it. Ezee could start a google documents thread, give everyone access and we can update the list ourselves.

[Lucky]

I wish I would have read the thread before voting, because now I want to change my vote. I thought having a "mixed" category would be a wise way to go, so I picked the 3 choice option. Then, I started to realize how that puts a strike against the purpose of the consensus thread. I do believe it's important to commit to one side over the other. I would elect either the original system or a 4 tier system of YAY-yay-nay-NAY.

[Lucky]

However, There are alternate ways we could do it. Ezee could start a google documents thread, give everyone access and we can update the list ourselves.

This isn't a bad idea, either. The first post could be updated monthly based on a simple copy/paste of this document.

[Raiders]

However, There are alternate ways we could do it. Ezee could start a google documents thread, give everyone access and we can update the list ourselves.

Yeah right. We already have a wiki that nobody ever touched which would accomplish the same thing, so I doubt this would happen.

[Ezee E]

Yeah right. We already have a wiki that nobody ever touched which would accomplish the same thing, so I doubt this would happen.
Agreed. Hence, why I don't mind updating the thread posting.

[Winston*]

I vote we keep the two option system but change the categories to "My New Favourite Film" and "Bullshit".

[Spinal]

If you use more than three options, you might as well just use numbers, in my opinion.

[Rowland]

I said I'd happily take over if the demand for a more complex system was there, but match-cut has spoken, and it appears that maintaining the status quo is the most popular option, which is fine.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah right. We already have a wiki that nobody ever touched which would accomplish the same thing, so I doubt this would happen.

Well i completely forgot about the wiki up until this second... if there was a link inside the database thread, it might help draw more attention to it.

[Ezee E]

Well i completely forgot about the wiki up until this second... if there was a link inside the database thread, it might help draw more attention to it.
NEW POLL!!!!!! I love polls!

[Winston*]

I said I'd happily take over if the demand for a more complex system was there, but match-cut has spoken, and it appears that maintaining the status quo is the most popular option, which is fine.

Doesn't have an outright majority though. Flexibility and Snooty could form a coalition government.

[Raiders]

Well i completely forgot about the wiki up until this second... if there was a link inside the database thread, it might help draw more attention to it.

You think a link inside a thread draws more attention than the existing link on the main forum page??? Not to mention it was intended for more than this only, but whatever, I'm over it. It wasn't that much effort.

[Lucky]

You think a link inside a thread draws more attention than the existing link on the main forum page??? Not to mention it was intended for more than this only, but whatever, I'm over it. It wasn't that much effort.

Nice, I never knew this wiki existed. I just requested to join.

[Dukefrukem]

You think a link inside a thread draws more attention than the existing link on the main forum page??? Not to mention it was intended for more than this only, but whatever, I'm over it. It wasn't that much effort.

Haha. I've never seen that link before this second either. It's like it blended in with the rest of the site. Sorry Raiders.

[MadMan]

What did you actually vote for, since the tally is now skewed?Flexibility: Yay/Mixed/Nay, as I noted in my previous post.

I forgot my password and username for the wiki, but I can drag them back up. I'd be happy to post reviews there, I just use my blog already for that purpose, however. But never mind that-I also didn't use it because I felt that other, better posters should post stuff there first.

[Mysterious Dude]

Flexibility: Yay/Mixed/Nay, as I noted in my previous post.
You said that was what you meant to vote for, and you also said "Oops," implying that you accidentally voted for something else. Did you not intend to imply that? If so, why did you say "Oops"?

[Spinal]

Here is my proposal:

PRO+ (masterpiece)
PRO+
PRO+
PRO+
PRO+
PRO+
PRO
PRO-
pro+
pro
pro-
pro
mixed
semi-mixed
re-mixed
sir-mixed-a-lot
con
con+
con
con-
CON+
CON
CON-
CON-
CON-
CON-
CON-
CON- (Condoleezza Rice)

[Derek]

It's funny how people who use a *-**** scale (7 options by my count) find it SO appalling and absurd to have GASP, 5 options for a sitewide scale.

[Raiders]

It's funny how people who use a *-**** scale (7 options by my count) find it SO appalling and absurd to have GASP, 5 options for a sitewide scale.

Or maybe, like me, they accept that this isn't the intent of the database thread E started?

[Derek]

Or maybe, like me, they accept that this isn't the intent of the database thread E started?

Shouldn't the intent be to get an accurate representation of what the site thinks about a film? Do you really not think that the scale on Fugees is much more useful and accurate than a simple yay/nay?

[Spinal]

It's funny how people who use a *-**** scale (7 options by my count) find it SO appalling and absurd to have GASP, 5 options for a sitewide scale.

I really don't care either way. I just like making jokes.

[Raiders]

Shouldn't the intent be to get an accurate representation of what the site thinks about a film? Do you really not think that the scale on Fugees is much more useful and accurate than a simple yay/nay?

So is this your offer to be the one to tabulate the results?

[Winston*]

I really don't care either way. I just like making jokes.

Do you really think this is a fitting target for your lampoonery, Spinal? These ratings go sitewide.

[Derek]

So is this your offer to be the one to tabulate the results?

Yes. I already mentioned I'd help on the other thread and also offered to help Rowland as well.

[Rowland]

If you combine the results for flexibility, snooty, and my lone asshole vote, that's 60% in favor of some sort of change. I've offered to tabulate the results twice already, and Derek has offered to assist as well if the ability for more than one of us to edit a post is possible. E has done enough work on these types of threads in the past that I don't blame him for not desiring even more work to concern himself over.

[MadMan]

You said that was what you meant to vote for, and you also said "Oops," implying that you accidentally voted for something else. Did you not intend to imply that? If so, why did you say "Oops"?Never fucking mind....just forget it. It doesn't matter. Whatever.

[transmogrifier]

Never fucking mind....just forget it. It doesn't matter. Whatever.

I think this is pretty uncalled for. I was confused about what you meant as well - hardly a big deal, seeing as the internet is a breeding ground for confusion wherever you go.

Not sure why you need to respond to a pretty genuine inquiry from Isaac, especially seeing as it is an indication that people are actually interested in what you are writing.

[MadMan]

I think this is pretty uncalled for. I was confused about what you meant as well - hardly a big deal, seeing as the internet is a breeding ground for confusion wherever you go.

Not sure why you need to respond to a pretty genuine inquiry from Isaac, especially seeing as it is an indication that people are actually interested in what you are writing.I clearly indicated twice what I meant, when people can't figure it out when I clearly stated it twice I get annoyed I'm not going to repeat it three times. And I don't have to justify myself to you, or anyone else. Especially to you.

[transmogrifier]

I clearly indicated twice what I meant, when people can't figure it out when I clearly stated it twice I get annoyed I'm not going to repeat it three times.

Also you are the last person I'm going to listen to a lecture from. In fact, you are one of the few people on these boards that I really dislike. Maybe the only one. Congrats.

I think I can live with that, MadMan. That's your choice. But I still think you were out of line reacting that way to a simple question.

[MadMan]

I think I can live with that, MadMan. That's your choice. But I still think you were out of line reacting that way to a simple question.:rolleyes:

PS: Reported.

[Spinal]

Let somebody love you, desperado.

[MadMan]

:lol:

You know, I hate the Eagles but their version of that song is the best. Although Clint Black's is not that bad.

PS: Re on "Snooty: YAY/yay/mixed/nay/NAY." Did someone in this thread explain what the difference between a "nay" and a "NAY" is? Or a "YAY" and a "yay?" I like the word "Snooty," though. Has a nice ring to it.

[DavidSeven]

I voted for yay/mixed/nay, but would prefer the status quo to a five option system. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say the snooty system wins on some kind of merger theory.

Let the debate rage on.

[transmogrifier]

:rolleyes:

PS: Reported.

I never thought that smiley looked anything like sarcastic.

[TGM]

I voted for yay/mixed/nay, but would prefer the status quo to a five option system. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say the snooty system wins on some kind of merger theory.

Let the debate rage on.

I'm with this. I voted yay/mixed/nay, though I would definitely prefer to keep things as they currently are than change to the five option format.

[Derek]

I voted for yay/mixed/nay, but would prefer the status quo to a five option system. Therefore, I don't think it's fair to say the snooty system wins on some kind of merger theory.

Let the debate rage on.


I'm with this. I voted yay/mixed/nay, though I would definitely prefer to keep things as they currently are than change to the five option format.

You guys do realize that if there was a 5-option system, you could still choose to only use the middle 3 (pro-mixed-con). Using the PRO and CON option is not forced. Same deal for people who don't want mixed, but like the idea of PRO-pro-con-CON. It kinda leaves room for everyone to use it how they want...

[Watashi]

The problem with a "mixed" option, is that it would way overused. I mean, what qualifies as mixed anyway? I've never personally been mixed on a film. A 5/10 for me is nay and a 6/10 is yay.

[Dukefrukem]

The problem with a "mixed" option, is that it would way overused. I mean, what qualifies as mixed anyway? I've never personally been mixed on a film. A 5/10 for me is nay and a 6/10 is yay.

We all have different ways the way we interpret ratings. A 5/10 for me is something that had potential, I enjoyed some elements, but there were also major continuity errors. That to me sounds like “MIXED”. Anything above the 50s is a YAY. Anything below the 50s is a NAY.

So I’d like to change my vote from the status quo to the three pronged approach.

[Lucky]

The problem with a "mixed" option, is that it would way overused. I mean, what qualifies as mixed anyway? I've never personally been mixed on a film. A 5/10 for me is nay and a 6/10 is yay.

I agree with this. That's why I would vote status quo over the other two. I'm pro-YAYs and NAYs but anti-mixed.

EDIT: Please don't mistake that for a pro- because I'm anti that as well.

[elixir]

Then simply don't use "mixed." I would use it quite rarely, perhaps never, myself, since I ultimately come down positive or negative on most movies.

[Lucky]

Then simply don't use "mixed." I would use it quite rarely, perhaps never, myself, since I ultimately come down positive or negative on most movies.

Then why have it at all? What benefit does mixed have in a consensus, I guess is my big question? I believe it hinders the point of the thread. Take a stand one way or another.

[Thirdmango]

the moment I saw the poll just now I quickly voted status quo simply because ezee looks at our posts and changes it. Giving someone more work on a menial task that they are happily doing for free is no bueno.

[Spinal]

I have 14 more options I am willing to add to my system if it will help.

Preview:
Wrath of Con
Wrath of Con -

[Derek]

I have 14 more options I am willing to add to my system if it will help.

Preview:
Wrath of Con
Wrath of Con -

Very CONfident-
CONfident
unCONfident+

?

[Derek]

Btw, I'm probably just going to do the 5-choice approach anyway and people who can't simply use whatever of those 5 options they like and ignore the others can stick with E's thread. I definitely don't feel the need to push everyone one way or the other, so both can co-exist if it's that big a point of contention.

I've created on online Excel doc and already have one person who's willing to help me update it. I can make it editable for anyone else who'd want to help out. Absolutely no pressure as you could simply use that to make sure all your votes are correct, add a few recent votes, add titles of upcoming films even before people have seen them (just to have them on the list, etc.) or help update whenever you have a couple spare minutes. In other words, I'd just give you access and you could help out as little or much as you want. It's easy since it saves changes instantly too.

As far as why "mixed" is a nice option - personally I'm 'mixed' on at least 1/4 of the films I see. Not meaning that I couldn't pick a side one way or the other in most cases, but that I don't feel strongly enough to have a 'yay' lumped in with someone elses 'yay' who thinks it's a masterpiece or to have a 'nay' grouped in with someone who thinks it's horrible shit.

It's also better for calculations - PRO's = 5, pro = 4, mixed = 3, con = 2, CON = 1. Add up the collective points, divide by 5 and voila, an accurate MC concensus rating that accounts equally for love, hate and sheer indifference.

Still tweaks to work out, but should have it ready to go towards the end of the week.

[Irish]

Derek, you've obviously put some thought into this so I don't want to belittle your contributions.

But maybe take a step back & ask Ezee what he wants to do? It seems like that thread is his "baby" & he's put no small amount of work maintaining it.

I kinda hate the idea that he might be voted out of a job without having had any significant impact on the process.

[Rowland]

I'm fine with the mixed option, that's where about two-thirds of my mild-affixed yay/nays belong.

[Derek]

Derek, you've obviously put some thought into this so I don't want to belittle your contributions.

But maybe take a step back & ask Ezee what he wants to do? It seems like that thread is his "baby" & he's put no small amount of work maintaining it.

I kinda hate the idea that he might be voted out of a job without having had any significant impact on the process.

Like I said, both can still continue to exist and if people who feel strongly against having a mixed, PRO and/or CON option want to keep using E's thread, I'm perfectly cool with that. I also think it's the most egalitarian way of pleasing everyone as you can choose to use only 2 or 3 of the options and ignore the others while those of us who want all 5 can use them. People who disagree can stick with the yay/nay thread.

I like the 5-option way and believe it'll offer something that a 2-3 option consensus doesn't. I offered to help E out as much as he needed to make that happen and he said he doesn't want to go more than 3 because it's too much work. Again, that's fine and I totally understand, but it means the only way to have a consensus that a decent portion of MC think is a good idea is to start it myself. I already have offers from 2 other people for significant help, both on the updating and technical side, so it'll eventually be available for those who want to use it.

At this point, I see no reason to continue arguing over something that no one's going to budge on and that, to me, is kinda self-explanatory, so let's move on to other things...

[transmogrifier]

I've created on online Excel doc and already have one person who's willing to help me update it. I can make it editable for anyone else who'd want to help out.

I'd be in on that. Love stats. Plus one of the disadvantages to the current system is that I see most films well into the year AFTER they were released, so I never get to add my vote to the consensus. I assume that this is a problem with many other people too - but an online database that can be kept and edited would continue to accumulate info even after all the awards stuff is done.

[EyesWideOpen]

I would love to have the threads continue to be updated after the year is up also. I'm willing to help also. I have tons of freetime.

[Ezee E]

So two threads?

[Russ]

So two threads?
So it would seem.

See which one gets the most traffic, and there's the answer to your poll question.

[Spinal]

Can't you guys just work on this together in one thread? So that we can quickly make a post that says something like ...

Horrible Bosses - nay/con

Somebody take the first post and the other take the second post and you can edit at will.

[Ezee E]

Can't you guys just work on this together in one thread? So that we can quickly make a post that says something like ...

Horrible Bosses - nay/con

Somebody take the first post and the other take the second post and you can edit at will.
Seems like the best of ideas.

Fairly sure the thread would get the more replies instead of the website. Just as Raiders mentioned with the unvisited wiki.

[eternity]

I like the Metacritic way. Positive/Neutral/Negative.

[MadMan]

I'm just going to start rating movies on a four coconuts scale. There will be half coconuts, just for further confusion. After all, I'm confusing. CONFUDDLED.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That sounds exactly like the traditional four star rating system, and won't be the slightest bit confusing. C'mon Madman, you can do better.

[Derek]

That sounds exactly like the traditional four star rating system, and won't be the slightest bit confusing. C'mon Madman, you can do better.

We could try the Madman 75-100 scale.

[Derek]

Can't you guys just work on this together in one thread? So that we can quickly make a post that says something like ...

Horrible Bosses - nay/con

Somebody take the first post and the other take the second post and you can edit at will.

I'd be fine with that, but we'd need a separate thread to post the results anyway so that idea doesn't really work.

[Spinal]

I'd be fine with that, but we'd need a separate thread to post the results anyway so that idea doesn't really work.

I don't follow. Wouldn't the results be edited into the first two posts?

[Derek]

I don't follow. Wouldn't the results be edited into the first two posts?

Sorry, didn't get the last part of your past. Yeah, if we start a new thread and go from there, sure.

[Mysterious Dude]

I saw a porn site once that used a rating system of erect penises.

[Raiders]

You know, the initial point of the Wiki's film database was to use the star-rating widget to come to a total consensus score and then we could post all our yay/nay votes at the bottom... but nevermind. This more convoluted way works best.

[Boner M]

MAKE THIS DISCUSSION(S) STOP

[Spinal]

MAKE THIS DISCUSSION(S) STOP

I give this post three coconuts and a half erect penis.

[Irish]

So wait, the new method is actually saying stuff like "Hugo nay/con"? Or "yay pro"? Do I have that right?

[Derek]

So wait, the new method is actually saying stuff like "Hugo nay/con"? Or "yay pro"? Do I have that right?

For now. I think we're going to create a new thread so E and I have the first 2 posts and you can post using either or both rating systems.

Although , only the 'mixed' ratings need a clarification for the yay/nay scale, so you could just post PRO/pro/con/CON (first 2 clearly yay, latter clearly nay) and post mixed/yay or nay.

Honestly, at this point, people can do whatever they want b/c I'm gonna shoot myself in the face if this keeps going on and on like this.