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View Full Version : Blue-ray/HD-DVD format war to end sooner than we think?



Morris Schæffer
01-06-2008, 09:42 AM
Warner Bros. will throw all its weight behind Blu-ray later this year, a decision that could serve as a death blow to the rival HD DVD format.

Studio, which had hinted it might drop one format after the holidays, said it decided to back Blu-ray to try and reduce confusion brought on by the high-def format war and better drive mainstream adoption. Warner made the decision heading into the annual Consumer Electronics Show confab in Las Vegas, where it had been skedded to participate in activities promoting the rival HD DVD format on Sunday evening.

Warner execs cited Blu-ray's domestic and international sales as the tipping point in its favor. From the start, the Sony developed format enjoys has had an advantage in greater studio support and the PlayStation 3 console, which plays high-def movies and, at least in the early going, was much more affordable than Blu-ray decks, which have tended to carry a higher price tag than HD DVD counterparts.

Warner's move leaves only Paramount and Universal squarely in the HD DVD camp. Sony, Fox, Disney and Lionsgate all back Blu-ray. Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well.

Warner has been the sole major backing both formats since late this summer, when Paramount dropped Blu-ray in favor of HD DVD, due in part to marketing incentives proffered by Toshiba and belief HD DVD's lower cost would drive greater mainstream adoption.

However, hardware manufacturers for both sides offered sizable discounts for players during the holidays, reducing the price gap between the two formats. And studios did their part to dangle promotional incentives on the software side.

Yet Warner found that consumers still hesitated to dip their toes into the high-def waters due to confusion over the dueling formats.

"The price impediment was going away, but the take up wasn't increasing that much," said Warner Home Entertainment topper Kevin Tsujihara. "The research was making it pretty clear there was still a tremendous amount of confusion among consumers."

Supporting both formats came with a cost for the studio, which had to maintain dual inventories for their releases. And while the studio had some of the best sellers on high-def when both formats were added together, they couldn't help but wonder whether dual support was helping, or hurting, the transition to a next-gen format.

"By us being both, we were playing into consumer confusion," Tsujihara said. "There's a window of opportunity with first time buyers of HD TVs to also buy a high-def player at the same time."

"The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger," Warner Bros. chairman and CEO Barry Meyer seconded.

However, the studio insists that cost was not the underlying motivation for the shift. Paramount drew a lot of flak for taking Toshiba incentives, said to be $150 million, to exclusively back HD DVD.

"This was not a bidding war," Tsujihara said.

He pointed out that worldwide the DVD biz brings in $42 billion annually and his studio draws the greatest portion of that as market share leader.

"That amount far dwarfs any financial incentives," he said.

And indeed, Paramount has maintained that it backed HD DVD because it was generally lower priced and therefore had a greater chance of mass adoption.

Warners' Blu-ray shift has been rumored for some time, but the studio insisted it would wait to see how both formats fared during the crucial holiday sales period before backing one format exclusively. Indeed, late in the fourth quarter, the studio ran full page newspaper ads touting HD DVD benefits on one side and Blu-ray on the other. During this point, homevid topper Ron Sanders talked openly of the need to move beyond the format war and convince consumers of the benefits of high-def (Variety, Dec. 17-23).

Warner’s timing apparently took the HD DVD camp by surprise, however. Thursday afternoon, shortly before Warner said it notified Toshiba of the decision, HD DVD backers were paying media calls. The North American HD DVD Promo Group cancelled its Sunday CES confab after Warner’s went public with the decision Friday afternoon.

The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Last summer, Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs from rental rotation.

Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format's backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs at its rental stores.

Studios and manufacturers have been fighting a pitched battle over high-def because there is so much at stake: Sales of standard DVD has started to decline and digital downloads are even smaller than high-def at this point. DVD sales generate around $16 billion annually for the studios, with rental biz contributing another $8 billion or so to the annual domestic homevid spending.

Warner's decision to back Blu-ray exclusively reps its third shift in high-def strategy. Initially, the studio said it would back HD DVD, then shifted toward dual format support in October 2005, several months before the first high-def discs hit shelves (Daily Variety, Oct. 20, 2005). Paramount made similar moves before settling on HD DVD late this summer (Daily Variety, Aug. 21). That commitment is believed to run through this year.

Warner's shift toward Blu-ray is expected to hasten the demise of HD DVD. Victory would give Sony a long awaited triumph after Betamax lost the videocassette war to VHS.

AND:


With Warner Bros. announcing that they are exclusively supporting Blu-ray, one of their sister studios, New Line Cinema, was apparently not on the cards. However, it has been revealed that they will also follow.

When you think of New Line Cinema, certain films should come to mind; Lord of the Rings, Dumb and Dumber, Nightmare on Elm Street, Se7en, Austin Powers, and most recently The Golden Compass. Even though they are a part of Time Warner, this is not an insignificant studio.

I've yet to jump aboard the High-def train, but at least this sounds like excellent news.

DSNT
01-06-2008, 01:16 PM
I'm glad I held out before committing. A friend of mine bought into the HD-DVD format and has been obsessively buying DVDs for the last few months. He's going to be bummed to hear this.

megladon8
01-06-2008, 06:40 PM
I have to be honest...I saw a display at Best Buy playing a movie on HD-DVD, a movie on Blu Ray, and a movie on DVD all side-by-side.

And while the picture is certainly clearer than DVD, I really didn't notice a large enough difference to warrant the ridiculously high prices.

It's still like $500+ for an HD/Blu Ray player (unless you get an attachment for X-Box 360, which is $200). And then the actual movies are $30+.

It's just not worth it to me, until they go down to DVD prices.

shaun
01-07-2008, 02:17 PM
Meh. No big deal. I only ended up buying 5-6 movies in HD-DVD format so I'm not out a ton and I did get a bunch use out of the player from Netflix.

If the stand alone blue-ray players don't come down in price quickly, it looks like I'm buying a PS3.

And while the picture is certainly clearer than DVD, I really didn't notice a large enough difference to warrant the ridiculously high prices.There's a huge difference in picture quality. It may or may not warrant the price since that's up to the individual, but I found that it was tougher to watch standard DVDs after watching something in HD.

Sycophant
01-07-2008, 03:37 PM
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm still under the impression it's going to be totally acceptable to sit out this generation of players. The next really valuable video generational shift will begin somewhere between 2012 or 2015. Asking the majority of consumers to change out their entire video library every ten years isn't going to fly.

Morris Schæffer
01-07-2008, 04:24 PM
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm still under the impression it's going to be totally acceptable to sit out this generation of players. The next really valuable video generational shift will begin somewhere between 2012 or 2015. Asking the majority of consumers to change out their entire video library every ten years isn't going to fly.

Is that what is being asked however? Admittedly, there's a few movies I already own on DVD and that I would like to upgrade to Blue-ray (2001: ASO and Lawrence of Arabia spring to mind), but I certainly have no intention of replacing my entire 350+ collection of DVD's. So why not sample this generation as well? Why wait yet another 5-8 years? Naturally, if prices remain high, then some of us are going to have to be rather selective, but I'd like to take the plunge somewhere this year. Unless, as Meg points, the quality improvement isn't all that. Still, I'm sure there are tons of other folks, like Shaun, who will claim otherwise.

Doclop
01-07-2008, 04:29 PM
I love blu-ray and was really happy to hear the news. Also, players are not as expensive as people seem to think. You can get a good one for under $300 and the discs themselves are often much cheaper than $30 (Amazon for new releases and Best Buy for sales - $15 for a whole batch of them this week).

As for the image quality, I think with the right equipment it's really quite noticeable.

Sycophant
01-07-2008, 04:40 PM
It is certainly noticeable and I'll admit to avoiding HD as much as possible in order to still appreciate the picture on my grubby little 20" SD set. However, I'm still thinking of it as the Laserdisc of the aughts.

Qrazy
01-07-2008, 04:43 PM
I have to be honest...I saw a display at Best Buy playing a movie on HD-DVD, a movie on Blu Ray, and a movie on DVD all side-by-side.

And while the picture is certainly clearer than DVD, I really didn't notice a large enough difference to warrant the ridiculously high prices.

It's still like $500+ for an HD/Blu Ray player (unless you get an attachment for X-Box 360, which is $200). And then the actual movies are $30+.

It's just not worth it to me, until they go down to DVD prices.

The great thing is it's going to force DVD prices even lower. :)

number8
01-07-2008, 09:35 PM
Fuck HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

There won't be a point when we're going to get direct HD digital files in a few years. Seriously.

Mysterious Dude
01-07-2008, 09:44 PM
Fuck HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

There won't be a point when we're going to get direct HD digital files in a few years. Seriously.
Exactly.

I'm glad I've only amassed a collection of about 20 DVD's. I learned my lesson after my VHS collection became obsolete.

shaun
01-07-2008, 09:48 PM
Fuck HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

There won't be a point when we're going to get direct HD digital files in a few years. Seriously.Delivering media via plastic disc is a dying distribution method to be sure. That doesn't mean that there's no value in paying for 2-3 years of quality use until those vast libraries of recently released HD OnDemand content are available.

shaun
01-08-2008, 07:26 PM
Paramount set to drop HD-DVD

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0a2c04dc-bd7a-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac.html


Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD-DVD last summer, joining General Electric's Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.

However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD-DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.Death knell.

baby doll
01-08-2008, 07:47 PM
I learned my lesson after my VHS collection became obsolete.Personally, if I see a VHS yardsale, I'll buy that shit up. I got Albert Brooks' Mother and Mike Leigh's Secrets and Lies for two bucks a pop.

Sycophant
01-08-2008, 07:57 PM
Personally, if I see a VHS yardsale, I'll buy that shit up. I got Albert Brooks' Mother and Mike Leigh's Secrets and Lies for two bucks a pop.
Most VHS looks about as good or worse than YouTube quality to me anymore. Throw in the ubiquitous pan & scanning and I can't begin to fathom how you can do that.

origami_mustache
01-08-2008, 11:17 PM
considering this dispute was predicted to be settled by the end of 2007...I'd have to say no?

Rowland
01-09-2008, 01:31 AM
FotR - HD vs. DVD (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/)

megladon8
01-09-2008, 01:52 AM
FotR - HD vs. DVD (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/)


I've seen that comparison before.

They did a good job of blurring the DVD images ever so slightly to make it look like more of a difference.

Rowland
01-09-2008, 01:55 AM
They did a good job of blurring the DVD images ever so slightly to make it look like more of a difference.Did they? I wouldn't know.

megladon8
01-09-2008, 01:56 AM
Did they? I wouldn't know.


They either did that, or they took the DVD images from a terrible source.

I just put the DVD in now, and compared both sets of images to my DVD, and my DVD isn't far off the HD version at all.

number8
01-09-2008, 02:13 AM
They either did that, or they took the DVD images from a terrible source.

I just put the DVD in now, and compared both sets of images to my DVD, and my DVD isn't far off the HD version at all.

They're always going to be blurry when you take captures from a DVD player program. Those HD stills look shit compared to images I see on my HDTV. That's not the point. The point is the guy put two formats through the same treatment, and that's the comparison.

Buffaluffasaurus
01-09-2008, 02:52 AM
They did a good job of blurring the DVD images ever so slightly to make it look like more of a difference.
They didn't blur the DVD images. They took them and blew them up to the resolution (1920x1080 pixels) of HD, which is effectively what your TV does if you watch normal DVDs on a high-def screen. Blowing up the images to HD is the only way to properly judge the quality comparison. If you try to compare and HD-DVD and a normal DVD on a non-high-def TV, the difference won't really be able to show through.

SirNewt
01-09-2008, 05:10 AM
Does this mean we'll finally get Casablanca on Blu-ray? That transfer is damn sexy.

With no malicious intent, you guys that think that HD content, equal to the kind on either HD format, is coming over the internet in a few years are crazy. Americas going to need a lot more bandwidth for that to happen, maybe Japan, but not here for awhile. Heh, especially where I live.

Also to those who mentioned it, what exactly will the generation of video players after this one be? It may seem a bit short sighted but I don't see how you would market anything more than blu-ray. Unless you have a very large screen video resolution above 1920x1080 is moot. With many BDs featuring uncompressed sound we can't really upgrade from there. Are you thinking of boxes with several hundred TBs of storage specially made for digital distro?

First post, sorry if I stepped on anybodies toes. I was surfing and saw a discussion on the best French films of all time and had to join the boards here.

Mysterious Dude
01-09-2008, 05:22 AM
With no malicious intent, you guys that think that HD content, equal to the kind on either HD format, is coming over the internet in a few years are crazy. Americas going to need a lot more bandwidth for that to happen, maybe Japan, but not here for awhile. Heh, especially where I live.
It doesn't matter if it's HD or equal to HD. As soon as it becomes convenient to download movies over the internet and watch them on your home television, that method of distribution will replace DVD's.

number8
01-09-2008, 05:50 AM
With no malicious intent, you guys that think that HD content, equal to the kind on either HD format, is coming over the internet in a few years are crazy. Americas going to need a lot more bandwidth for that to happen, maybe Japan, but not here for awhile. Heh, especially where I live.

Five years ago, it took me 30-45 minutes to download one song. Today, I can watch DVD quality feature length film streamed nearly instantly as soon as I clicked the link. In 5 years?

Downloading HD films and TV shows off XBox Live is already pretty successful. If studios push for this to become the norm, then it's going to come faster than we think.

The more logical hindrance for direct movie downloads to happen is that more often than not, electronics manufacturers and movie studios have the same parent company. That is the real problem.

SirNewt
01-09-2008, 09:24 AM
True, I'll concede. Thinking of it now, the possibilities for downloading are affected more by compression techniques than by bandwidth. I've not downloaded any HD content via XBLA yet so I've no experience with that.

Morris Schæffer
01-09-2008, 02:15 PM
I like to go shopping for new DVD's. Downloading just isn't the same.

shaun
01-09-2008, 02:57 PM
Thinking of it now, the possibilities for downloading are affected more by compression techniques than by bandwidth. Pretty much. Current broadband infrastructure can handle Standard DVD or compressed HD without much issue. My home cable is advertised as 30Mb/s but real world is more like 24Mb/s. That's plenty.

And for the people that think lossy compression is a crime against humanity, Comcast is giving them 160Mb/s in the near future with DOCSIS 3.0...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/01/08/ces.comcast.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

KK2.0
01-10-2008, 07:09 PM
They didn't blur the DVD images. They took them and blew them up to the resolution (1920x1080 pixels) of HD, which is effectively what your TV does if you watch normal DVDs on a high-def screen. Blowing up the images to HD is the only way to properly judge the quality comparison. If you try to compare and HD-DVD and a normal DVD on a non-high-def TV, the difference won't really be able to show through.

exactly, you can only compare the formats on large tv sets that require bigger resolutions, than DVD's start looking terrible while HD look totally sexy.

since i'm buying one of these TVs soon, i'm afraid i'll have to start re-purchasing a select few movies... however, there are upscaling software that minimizes the damage done when you blow up DVD resolution, right?



I like to go shopping for new DVD's. Downloading just isn't the same.

and until we have better compression software, larger hard drives and faster connections, and all this for cheap, downloading 25+ gigs for each movie doesn't sound like fun.

number8
01-10-2008, 07:29 PM
since i'm buying one of these TVs soon, i'm afraid i'll have to start re-purchasing a select few movies... however, there are upscaling software that minimizes the damage done when you blow up DVD resolution, right?

Correct. And if you use a component cable, it actually doesn't look blurry at all, just a little grainy. But I kinda like film grain, so...

number8
01-10-2008, 07:35 PM
and until we have better compression software, larger hard drives and faster connections, and all this for cheap, downloading 25+ gigs for each movie doesn't sound like fun.

Okay, how about this. My whole thing is that I'm sure that we'll eventually switch to digital files instead of written discs. It's unnecessary to have a median like a player that reads from disc when we have the technology now (like the Xbox360) to have a small computer that can play HD video files on your TV.

Downloading is the most convenient way to distribute those files, but you can still have a retail sale of it. Kind of like software, you can buy a retail version or purchase a download from the official website. The difference is that instead of selling written DVD formats, they'll start selling data discs that contain the movie file, or even in thumb drives that you can plug and play.

They actually already did this for Live Free or Die Hard. I want to see more of it.