DC Comics Thread

[number8]

Palmiotti and Gray will be taking Batwing in a completely new direction, with a completely new look. Now he just looks like Black Panther. DC is really not afraid to be pulling out the semi-reboot cards already.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1360262372.jpg

[number8]

this might be the worst thing

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bryan-young/exclusive-dc-comics-revea_b_2641445.html

Nah. Cringey idea, but nice sentiment + top notch creative teams. I'd buy it.

[Acapelli]

i'm just reminded of the last time dc attempted a politically themed book

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081208142760/marvel_dc/images/7/7c/DC_Universe_Decisions_4.jpg

*shudder*

[number8]

Ugh I forgot about that.

[Sven]

Milligan's out at #20. I wonder who will carry it onward. Doubt I will keep following unless it's a revelatory pick, but it won't be.

[slqrick]

Batman 17 was disappointing. Amazing art, but the story would have worked better if it wasn't hyped to death by Snyder and DC. The neckbeards are crucifying him right now, but I'm still looking forward to seeing what Snyder does in his next arc with Riddler. I think he's better at writing Dick Grayson as Batman though.

[number8]

I'm really tempted to drop all my DC books.

[Sven]

The neckbeards are crucifying him right now...

What does this mean?

I've thought about dropping DC, but unfortunately Dial H is just too good.

[Grouchy]

I fully understand where the people rallying against Orson Scott Card are coming from, the guy is a turd after all... But where were these concerned folks when he was writing Ultimate Iron Man? Editors at Marvel must be laughing their asses off.

[Sven]

I fully understand where the people rallying against Orson Scott Card are coming from, the guy is a turd after all... But where were these concerned folks when he was writing Ultimate Iron Man? Editors at Marvel must be laughing their asses off.

I don't think Card's politics were such widespread knowledge at that point.

[number8]

I don't think Card's politics were such widespread knowledge at that point.

Correct. Ultimate Iron Man was published in 2005. Card didn't become the leader of NOM until 2009.

[number8]

Also, let's be honest. 21 Jump Street got it right. Support for gay rights being a mainstream majority is a very, very recent thing. Glee, Neil Patrick Harris and the It Gets Better project (among other things) only made it fashionable within the last 5 years. Before that, public support was mostly of the non-vocal agreement variety.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Correct. Ultimate Iron Man was published in 2005. Card didn't become the leader of NOM until 2009.

Yeah, but the guy has been publicly outspoken about his views on homosexuality for decades.

[Sven]

Yeah, but the guy has been publicly outspoken about his views on homosexuality for decades.
Speaking one's opinion is one thing, heading oppositional campaigns is another.

[number8]

Yeah, but the guy has been publicly outspoken about his views on homosexuality for decades.

How many people outside of his fans actually knew? Not a lot. Sven was talking about his views being widespread knowledge. People automatically equating Card's name with bigotry every time he is mentioned somewhere didn't really happen until after he became head of NOM.

[Acapelli]

Batman 17 was disappointing. Amazing art, but the story would have worked better if it wasn't hyped to death by Snyder and DC. The neckbeards are crucifying him right now, but I'm still looking forward to seeing what Snyder does in his next arc with Riddler. I think he's better at writing Dick Grayson as Batman though.
i've thought he was awful writing batman since court of owls

i don't think he really gets batman's rogues gallery. he struck out with the joker and mr. freeze

[number8]

Snyder's definitely a guy who struggles with endings. I feel like Severed, Court of Owls, American Vampire, and Swamp Thing all started out really good and then just went off the rails horribly.

[number8]

DC's official statement is predictably neutral.


“As content creators we steadfastly support freedom of expression, however the personal views of individuals associated with DC Comics are just that — personal views — and not those of the company itself.”

[slqrick]

i've thought he was awful writing batman since court of owls

i don't think he really gets batman's rogues gallery. he struck out with the joker and mr. freeze

I liked Court of Owls but it definitely went off the rails at the end. My problem with it was how noob-ish Bruce was throughout the story, and then I read that Snyder intended the arc to be for Dick when he was Batman before the whole new 52 thing happened. That makes much more sense since Dick had the connection to the Talons. I think he was much better at writing a nuanced Batman when it was Grayson under the suit, and the Bruce now is sorely lacking the "Batman who is 10 steps ahead of the game" feel.

I actually liked how he introduced Joker at the start of the storyline when he took out the GCPD, though.

[number8]

Black Mirror is still his best work, to me. That also had a pretty weak ending, but it was more consistent than his other work.

[Grouchy]

DC's official statement is predictably neutral.
It's what I'd expect.

Given the PC climate that surrounds superheroes recently (like the reactions to James Gunn's old horny blogging) I can't fathom how they originally thought that an outspoken bigot writing Superman was a good idea.

[number8]

Jonathan Glapion will no longer be inking Capullo on Batman.

[number8]

Oh shit this looks great. I wonder what book it's gonna be for.


My version for The Joker for a DC Comics project! Pay attention and try to see the two mouths. He wants to make you think that he is laughing all the time, but he isn't.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8050/8426484809_28cfcf9d3b_c.jpg

[Sven]

Grampa and Ryp are a definite DC coup, and I've been hoping to see them contracted on projects like this rather than covers and fill-ins.

[bac0n]

If they give Orson Scott Card Bat Woman after JHW3 leaves, I will know that DC actively hates its fans.

[Ezee E]

At least "Death of the Family" didn't end with a stupid surprise like Night of the Owls, but it really didn't deliver. So we don't have a Batman crossover for a while. Whoopiedoo. I bet when any of them are in dire trouble, everything is just fine in the family.

Between this and H'el on Earth, my comic buying is definitely dropping.

[number8]

A Superman pitch given to DC in 1998 written together by Tom Peyer, Mark Waid, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar.

http://superman.nu/theages/History/2000/SUPERMAN2000.php

Reading it, a lot of this was obviously incorporated into the New 52 Superman.

You can also tell which writer came up with which idea by recognizing which detail from this pitch eventually showed up in Birthright, Red Son or All-Star Superman. Heh.

[number8]

Also, holy shit, Marvel completely ripped off this pitch for One More Day.

[dreamdead]

So this the last issue of Batwoman with Williams art for the discernible future (and I think at all, with the shakedown that DC's done recently). I look forward to reading it soon, but I'll be honest that I really want Williams to start an original project at Image now... the scripts he's done for Batwoman have gotten better in terms of being detailed (though maybe too narration-heavy), so I think he could do his own thing easily enough.

Gorgeous cover:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EcAHmaKB8v8/UKIveX8XhXI/AAAAAAAAMRM/_zWyAGvir0M/s1600/batwoman17.jpeg

[ledfloyd]

yeah, Morrison is off Action as of today as well, so I'm reading Wonder Woman from DC and that's it. (edit: oh, and Batman Inc. duh.)

Williams' scripts have been narration heavy, but I feel like that works really well with his art. An Image book would be great, but I imagine we won't hear much from him until Sandman is complete.

[bac0n]

Wow think I'm gonna drop Batwoman and Action Comics too, which means I'll be down to Wonder Woman and Green Lantern and Batman Inc for DC and that's it. And GL is dropping Mahnke so I may be dropping that as well.

Amazing how in the past few months I've gone from mostly DC with a Marvel title or two, to the exact opposite.

[slqrick]

DC is really gonna try and cash in on Johns leaving Green Lantern...5 books a month is ludicrous, especially with all the creative turnover. Batman Inc. is almost over, so there's really nothing I'm looking forward to from them at this point.

I wish Morrison was writing some Marvel instead of that whole DC Multiverse thing.

[bac0n]

Yeah the whole GL universe has become muddled. The past several major arcs have all been messes.

[number8]

Trying my best to avoid the supposedly huge Batman Inc 8 spoiler that got leaked today.


"Little did I suspect when I accepted the BATMAN writing assignment back in 2006 that I’d wind up spending the next six years writing the longest continued comic story I’ve ever attempted. I thought I’d said most of what I had to say about the character with Arkham Asylum, Gothic, and Batman’s appearances in JLA. Clearly, I was wrong.

The original pitch was for 15 issues winding up with BATMAN R.I.P. but something happened along the way and, as I was researching his rich history, I became fascinated by the idea that every Batman story was in some way true and biographical - from the savage, young, pulp-flavored “weird figure of the dark” of his early years, through the smiling, paternal figure of the 1940s and the proto-psychedelic crusader of the ‘50s, the superhero detective of the ‘60s, the hairy-chested globetrotting adventurer of the ‘70s, to the brutally physical vigilante of the ‘80s and snarling, paranoid soldier of the ‘90s.

By taking his entire publishing history as the story of his life, I was able to approach Batman from a different angle and the multifaceted character that was revealed became the subject of my story.

What would such a man be like, realistically? This was a man who had saved countless lives, faced innumerable perils, and even prevented the destruction of the world itself. This was a master of martial arts, meditation, deduction, yoga and big business. This was a man who had tamed and mastered his demons and turned personal tragedy into a relentless humanitarian crusade.

Taking that man seriously meant I had to throw out a few of the accepted ideas about Batman as a semi-unhinged, essentially humorless loner struggling with rage and guilt. The totality of his history and accomplishments made that portrayal seem limited and unconvincing, so instead, my Batman was a true superhero at the height of his powers and the peak of his abilities, surrounded by a network of friends and associates, all of whom had been inspired by his lead.

I chose to build my story around the basic trauma, the murder of his parents, that lies at the heart of Batman’s genesis. It seemed to me there would be a part of Bruce Wayne that resented his parents for leaving him and especially resented his father for not being Batman that night, so the principal villains were an archetypal bad father figure in the form of Dr. Hurt and a dark mother in the form of Talia, our villain for the concluding chapters of the story.

This master theme of damaged and ruined families was nowhere more in evidence than in the creation of Damian, the first “Son of Batman” to be acknowledged in the canon. In many ways this has been Damian’s story as much as it has been the story of Bruce Wayne and it’s a story that had its end planned a long time ago - for what son could ever hope to replace a father like Batman, who never dies?

And so, via Batman, Batman and Robin, Return of Bruce Wayne and Batman Inc. this epic tale has finally reached its finale.

Thanks to all the artists who helped realise the story – Andy Kubert, JH Williams, John Van Fleet, Tony Daniel, Ryan Benjamin, Lee Garbett, Frank Quitely, Philip Tan, Cameron Stewart, Andy Clarke, Frazer Irving, Scott Kolins, Chris Sprouse, Ryan Sook, Yanick Paquette, Georges Jeanty, David Finch, Scott Clark and of course, Chris Burnham.

Thanks to the inkers, colorists and letters and to my indefatigable editors.

Thanks to the readers who joined in the fun and contributed to the thought-provoking debates and analyses online.

The conclusion is finally here, with only four more issues to go. Four issues which take Batman to dark places he has never had to visit before. Four issues and I’m done, while Batman himself continues into as yet unimagined future adventures. He’ll still be here long after I’m dead and forgotten; long after all of us have come and gone, there will be Batman. It’s been a joy and a privilege to spend so much time in the company of pop culture’s greatest character but it’s going to feel weird waking up and not having Bruce Wayne’s calm, commanding, ever-so-slightly cynical voice in my head.

Batman forever…

- Grant

Scotland, December 2012"

[number8]

After all the titles I'm dropping next month at #18 because of creative team changes, I'm still getting Batman, Batgirl, Batman Inc, Wonder Woman (which I'm not enjoying all that much anymore) and All-Star Western. I can live with those for the foreseeable future.

[sevenarts]

I rarely see anyone mention Dial H in this thread. Easily one of the best DC series right now, mostly because it's so thoroughly divorced from everything else going on in the line.

[number8]

I dropped it from my pull list a couple of issues back.

[Ezee E]

Dial H seems to be a comic that many are sticking with here. I didn't care for it personally.

[ledfloyd]

It's still on my list of things to read, but I've been in a bit of a lull comics-wise lately.

[Sven]

I rarely see anyone mention Dial H in this thread. Easily one of the best DC series right now, mostly because it's so thoroughly divorced from everything else going on in the line.

I mention it. I feel like people are sick of my mentioning it. And I'd venture that it's one of the best because it's super well-written and illustrated.

[sevenarts]

super well-written and illustrated.

Kind of what I meant by "thoroughly divorced from everything else" at DC :lol:

[slqrick]

lol looks like Didio decided to drop the WTF branding for April. Seriously though, what in the hell is going on at DC.

[number8]

What idiots.

[Sven]

"Won't happen" is the first thing my LCS owner/former boss said about it. Too many pockets of the country that wouldn't hock books aimed at minors plastered with a label with an implied "fuck", is what he said.

[number8]

"Won't happen" is the first thing my LCS owner/former boss said about it. Too many pockets of the country that wouldn't hock books aimed at minors plastered with a label with an implied "fuck", is what he said.

At the retailer summit last week, this was asked and DC said the WTF stood for "What the Fifty-Two."

[number8]

Batman Inc. shiiiiit.

[slqrick]

Brutal. With 4 issues to go, I think Morrison's definitely got something up his sleeve. Some great art by Burnham, the "big" spread felt kinda like JH Williams.

[Acapelli]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/mulletpeep/82bac237-e9d9-4ec4-8062-0d06e9c3a50f.jpg

best comic

[Sven]

Hm. I dissent. Damian/Dick's final team-up was too shoehorned and truncated to play as anything other than a fan service signoff (the double punch felt like the chicken fight in Family Guy... stripped of so much glee). Last two issues have been rushed, fraying. Fill-in pages, backgrounds dropped, transparent emotional ploys, lurching transitions (seems all the DC books are this way right now!). An inorganic build to Damian's dramatic moment. Sad that the li'l wunderkind had such a limp goodbye.

Am I saying it? Yes: Death in the Family read better.

[Acapelli]

Hm. I dissent. Damian/Dick's final team-up was too shoehorned and truncated to play as anything other than a fan service signoff (the double punch felt like the chicken fight in Family Guy... stripped of so much glee). Last two issues have been rushed, fraying. Fill-in pages, backgrounds dropped, transparent emotional ploys, lurching transitions (seems all the DC books are this way right now!). An inorganic build to Damian's dramatic moment. Sad that the li'l wunderkind had such a limp goodbye.

Am I saying it? Yes: Death in the Family read better.
i'm sorry sven that you have gone insane :D

"death of the family" had one of the limpest endings i've ever read in a comic

and snyder's joker is terrible

unless you're actually talking about "death in the family" which i haven't read and will defer to you on that one

[Sven]

unless you're actually talking about "death in the family" which i haven't read and will defer to you on that one

This one. The other one where a major Robin dies.

Have not read any of Snyder's Joker. I'm sure I wouldn't be a fan.

[number8]

The Bat covers for next month.

http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/2/28/11/enhanced-buzz-wide-9074-1362069067-5.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-16321-1362066221-16.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-21074-1362066160-9.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-31912-1362066254-5.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-20598-1362066126-20.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-19689-1362066109-13.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-20651-1362066163-15.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr03/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-28405-1362067015-6.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr01/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-20828-1362066185-9.jpghttp://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/webdr02/2013/2/28/10/enhanced-buzz-wide-32740-1362066344-3.jpg

Batman, Batman variant, Detective Comics, Batman Inc, Batman & Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing, Teen Titans, World's Finest, Red Hood.

[number8]

I'm planning on getting B&R #18 even though I haven't been reading the title. Apparently the entire issue is completely wordless, just Bruce silently mourning, and word is Gleason nailed the shit out of it.

[number8]

I didn't realize Morrison even read the other Bat-books, let alone would reference them on Inc. From Nightwing 17:

http://i.imgur.com/6gbuDzk.png

http://i.imgur.com/Fk0rNrM.jpg

[slqrick]

I'm planning on getting B&R #18 even though I haven't been reading the title. Apparently the entire issue is completely wordless, just Bruce silently mourning, and word is Gleason nailed the shit out of it.

Gleason's Joker issues were the best thing to come out of Death of the Family.

[number8]

Yeah I saw the snippets. Horrifying.

http://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpr ess.com/2012/12/the-joker-upside-down-face.jpg?w=593 http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9536/batmanandrobin15b.jpg

[Grouchy]

Wait a second, the Joker has killed yet another member of the Batman family?

Hasn't that happened way too much already?

[Acapelli]

jesus christ

i love capullo (easily the best part of his and snyder's batman run). but that is way creepier than anything i saw in the main book

[number8]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-Incorporated-8-Inc-Death-of-Robin-Signed-Sketched-by-Chris-Burnham-/221195428023?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item33804660b7

[EyesWideOpen]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Batman-Incorporated-8-Inc-Death-of-Robin-Signed-Sketched-by-Chris-Burnham-/221195428023?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item33804660b7

I'm surprised most artists don't do that to bring in extra income.

[Sven]

I'm surprised most artists don't do that to bring in extra income.

My guess is that they're contractually prohibited from such things.

[slqrick]

^^ I think it's much easier now in the Twitter era.

Allegedly, some people paid $20-30 for this issue. That kinda blows my mind.

[number8]

Chris Sprouse quit as Orson Scott Card's artist on Adventures of Superman, causing Card's story to be postponed to a later issue.


"It took a lot of thought to come to this conclusion, but I've decided to step back as the artist on this story," Sprouse said in a statement released Tuesday. "The media surrounding this story reached the point where it took away from the actual work, and that's something I wasn't comfortable with. My relationship with DC Comics remains as strong as ever and I look forward to my next project with them."

Due to the creative change, the Card story will not appear in the first collected issue out May 29. Instead, it will feature a story by writer Jeff Parker and artist Chris Samnee, as well as a tale by Jeff Lemire and one by writer Justin Jordan and artist Riley Rossmo.

DC is also looking for a replacement illustrator for Card's story.

[bac0n]

Good for him.

[number8]

309105461838372865

[EyesWideOpen]

For meg since I remember him talking about how much he loved it. DC is bringing back Astro City (http://ifanboy.com/articles/kurt-busiek-brent-anderson-alex-ross-and-astro-city-return-in-june-from-dc-comics/).

[number8]

The title of the Scott Snyder/Jim Lee Superman book is Superman Unchained.

Seriously.

No, really.

[Sven]

The title of the Scott Snyder/Jim Lee Superman book is Superman Unchained.

Seriously.

No, really.

good becusae why was he in chainz?!

[Sven]

Milligan's Stormwatch tenure is going to go down in infamy.

[sevenarts]

Milligan's Stormwatch tenure is going to go down in infamy.

Why? Good or bad? I gave up on it after a couple of issues.

[Sven]

Why? Good or bad? I gave up on it after a couple of issues.

He basically turned a brawny sci-fi action team book into a gay soap opera. It's lovely, but boy is it different.

[Acapelli]

miller-mazuchelli's year one - 4 issues

snyder-capullo's year zero - 11 issues

[number8]

miller-mazuchelli's year one - 4 issues

snyder-capullo's year zero - 11 issues

Groan. I'm not looking forward to this, either. A year's worth of origin story.

[number8]

Milligan's Stormwatch tenure is going to go down in infamy.

Hey are you reading All-Star Western? The backup feature is now 19th Century Stormwatch, led by Jenny Steam.

[Grouchy]

miller-mazuchelli's year one - 4 issues

snyder-capullo's year zero - 11 issues
They're really trying too hard in all the wrong ways.

[number8]

Chris Burnham's variant cover for Li'l Gotham #1.

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/Burnham-LilGotham-col.jpg

[slqrick]

Batman and Robin was a real gut punch. Tomasi handled the fallout to Batman Inc. much, much better than Snyder.

[number8]

Yet another one.

Andy Diggle quits as the writer on Action Comics for "professional reasons." Tony Daniel will be taking over writing.

314419145120825344

314432494151806976

From the way the rest of his tweets sound, bad shit went down between him and DC. Of course.

[number8]

Can you imagine the kind of shit that had to have gone down to make a writer say, "This is a tough decision, but I think it would be a better career direction for me to quit being the writer of the most popular comic book character in the world during the character's biggest year"?

[ledfloyd]

Pretty satisfying conclusion to Morrison's run, but the whole thing felt a bit disjointed and is far from Grant's best work.

[Acapelli]

fialkov has left the green lantern books too

dc is a disaster

[number8]

What the Fifty Two?!

[bac0n]

Wow, what a train wreck DC has become.

[number8]

lol DC removed a cigarette from the cover of Constantine #1.

[number8]

Here is Fialkov's comments. Basically the same as Diggle's.


Hey guys,

Just a quick note to confirm what everyone knows, I am no longer the writer of GLC and Red Lanterns for DC Comics. There were editorial decisions about the direction of the book that conflicted with the story I was hired to tell, and I felt that it was better to let DC tell their story the way they want. I’m grateful for the opportunity and I’ll miss working with the entire Green Lantern team.


This was not an easy decision to make emotionally or financially, but, I’m sure it was the right decision for both me, and for the Green Lantern books. The outpouring of support, your kind words and well wishes means so much to me and my family.

[number8]

THIS STORY KEEPS GETTING WORSE.


I understand that both the editorial input for both Fialkov’s books, and fellow walker-outer Andy Diggle‘s Action Comics, were in direct contradiction of the promises made at the DC Creative Summit by Dan DiDio, backed by Diane Nelson, that once an overview of an arc had been greenlit by editorial, it wouldn’t be changed by editorial. One creator told me that the promised lasted four days.

But for Fialkov it seemed it wasn’t so much that there were editorial changed, but what they meant.

I have been told by a number of high profile industry sources that Fialkov was asked change his upcoming story to instead kill off Green Lantern John Stewart, DC Comics’ most prominent black character. And that is why he quit.

[bac0n]

So, the plan is to kill off John Stewart and have Guy Gardner (my LEAST favorite lantern) be the boss of the Red Lanterns?

I... just... :frustrated:

[ledfloyd]

As soon as Batman Inc. is complete I am done with DC for the forseeable future. Maybe I'll check in on Wonder Woman down the road or give Dial H a shot at some point, but I can't be bothered anymore.

[sevenarts]

DC should just fire all their writers and let the editors write the books. See how well that works out for them. Of course it seems like the editors already think they're writing everything - or should be, anyway.

[number8]

Aw. Before Karen Berger left, Douglas Rushkoff pitched a new project to Vertigo and Berger told him to take it to another publisher, so he took it to Dark Horse.


Fuck Marvel and DC and these guys. I have an email exchange—the guy from Image is open to a pitch from me as soon as I’m ready to do one, but I’ve got [Present Shock] and I’m writing a graphic novel now for Dark Horse. I had pitched it to Karen Berger [at Vertigo], and she already kind of knew the writing on the wall, and was like, “Don’t, don’t do it here.”

[ledfloyd]

Vertigo is the most depressing part of this whole thing for me. The renaissance Vertigo experienced in the mid 00's single-handedly got me back into comics. Rushkoff's Testament was even part of that. Ugh.

[Sven]

Finished a full read-through of Morrison's Action and my mind is whirling. Truly a feat of boggling narrative spinning, it's hard to find sufficient words to describe my reaction. Minor beef in that I wish the last few issues spelled things out a little less, as the way the enigma of its plot crystallizes is super exciting. Fond emotions recollecting a year and a half ago, wondering how the first panel of issue 1 was gonna be significant. Now I'm marveling at the execution. Love how it works as a work of fractal weird fantasy... alt Superman as a result of fairy rivalry. It will find a following.

[slqrick]

Finished a full read-through of Morrison's Action and my mind is whirling. Truly a feat of boggling narrative spinning, it's hard to find sufficient words to describe my reaction. Minor beef in that I wish the last few issues spelled things out a little less, as the way the enigma of its plot crystallizes is super exciting. Fond emotions recollecting a year and a half ago, wondering how the first panel of issue 1 was gonna be significant. Now I'm marveling at the execution. Love how it works as a work of fractal weird fantasy... alt Superman as a result of fairy rivalry. It will find a following.

I read the first couple of issues of this for Morrison, but the Rags Morales art was really killing me so I couldn't do it. I was wondering if I should check out the run now that it's over, and maybe now I will. I heard mixed things though.

[ledfloyd]

I'm not as high on it as Sven is, but it definitely has its moments.

[sevenarts]

It's worth reading for sure. I can see it all coming together as Sven describes on a reread. But the art mostly remains the weak link in the whole thing.

[number8]

Sholly Fisch's back-ups don't get enough props, by the way. I heard that Morrison specifically asked for Fisch to accompany him because Morrison's a fan of his past work. Excellent choice, Grant. Fisch provides the down-home heart that nicely caps off Morrison's big ideas every issue. I can't believe DC didn't just give him the title when Diggle bolted, and instead handed it off to Daniel of all people.

[Acapelli]

Well Daniel is only on the title for the 3 issues he was supposed to be on with diggle

[number8]

lol The Flash will join Justice League Dark. Ah, who cares anymore.

[number8]

Heh. (http://comicsbeat.com/dc-fires-entire-writing-staff-editorial-takes-over/)

[number8]

The new Batwing is Lucius Fox's MMA fighter son, Luke Fox.

:|

I guess that explains the new Batman Beyond look.

[number8]

The Batbooks are kind of a mess right now. All of them are apparently still playing up the whole Death of the Family aftermath thing where they're all mad at Bruce, even though Damian's death already stole their thunder and now the Batfamily just look like a bunch of assholes because they're avoiding a guy whose son just died because of trust issues.

[number8]

Trinity War teaser. Justice League vs Justice League of America vs Justice League Dark. My interest is somewhere between zero and minus two.

http://i.newsarama.com/images/trinitywar_02.jpg

[number8]

I feel like all I do about DC is complain lately, and that doesn't really feel good.

[dreamdead]

I feel like all I do about DC is complain lately, and that doesn't really feel good.

I think I'm about done with Batwoman, which is the only book I followed past six issues (WW made it to that number, though). Their constant creative switcheroos just neutralized the good vibes, and little else about the reboot seemed useful--evident by the fact that Batwoman ignored the reboot entirely.

Note: I do know that Williams and Blackman had set up the series to premiere back in March of '11, and that the editorial decision was made to delay it so it could debut with the rest of the line.

[Ezee E]

I feel like all I do about DC is complain lately, and that doesn't really feel good.

Yeah, my visits to the comic shop have definitely not been as energetic as they once were.

[slqrick]

I feel like all I do about DC is complain lately, and that doesn't really feel good.

It's weird because I just read the first couple of arcs of Dial H, and it's ridiculously fun, which is what all these Justice League books are missing. The writers just don't have a good handle of the bigger characters.

[Sven]

It's weird because I just read the first couple of arcs of Dial H, and it's ridiculously fun, which is what all these Justice League books are missing. The writers just don't have a good handle of the bigger characters.

It's the only DC book I care about since Red Lanterns started crossover nonsense and G-Moz dropped the B,Inc ball.

[number8]

Villain month? Come on.

[Ezee E]

Villain month? Come on.

I saw that Batman cover... Eek. The one that I'm still following.

I left my wallet at work and couldn't get it.

What was with the $7.99 Detective Comics issue?

[Ezee E]

Villain month? Come on.

I saw that Batman cover... Eek. The one that I'm still following.

I left my wallet at work and couldn't get it.

What was with the $7.99 Detective Comics issue?

[number8]

No, they just announced a gimmick for this September, all 52 titles will be renamed to a villain's name and given #1.

[Ezee E]

No, they just announced a gimmick for this September, all 52 titles will be renamed to a villain's name and given #1.

Ah. I thought it was now since every cover had a weird double page cover with a villain on the other side.

[Grouchy]

Most of the news about superhero comics (and DC in particular) just remind me of The Boys now.

[number8]

Ah. I thought it was now since every cover had a weird double page cover with a villain on the other side.

That would be WTF month. The other side are not villains, but "shocking reveals."

[sevenarts]

That's WTF as in "WTF is DC thinking these days?" These gimmicks just get worse and worse, while the number of actual good comics they're putting out plummets.

Batman has just turned into an outright suckfest, though I did like the creepy backup story with Alex Maleev art this month. So not looking forward to a year's worth of origin story.

[Ezee E]

That would be WTF month. The other side are not villains, but "shocking reveals."

So is Red Robin really going to continue?

[sevenarts]

So is Red Robin really going to continue?

You mean Batman and Red Robin? No, that's a retitling since Damien's death. Next month it'll be Batman and Red Hood, then Batman and Batgirl, maybe more after that.

[number8]

Yes, it's the five stages of death thing. Batman & Red Robin was about denial, Batman & Red Hood will be about anger, Batman & Batgirl is about bargaining, Batman & Catwoman about depression, and finally Batman & Nightwing is acceptance.

I assume that they'll have a new Robin after that. Or cancel the series, heh.

[number8]

And the hits keep on coming! Tell me this isn't a weird overreaction:


With regret, CBR News has to inform our readers today that there will no longer be a "B&B" column on the site after only four short months.

When CBR proposed the idea of a regular column with DC's executive staff, our stated intent was for the feature to be a place to connect the decision makers at the publisher with the wider comics community. Aside from product and story information, discussing the industry news and debates of the day was something we always planned to focus on both in the regular interviews with Harras and Chase and the monthly fan Q&A. However, the DC team has made it clear to CBR that discussing some of the more controversial debates surrounding the company and the comics community is not something they feel comfortable doing in this format, and ultimately they decided to no longer participate in this feature.

Specifically, Harras and Chase declined to comment on questions about DC exclusive talent Jerry Ordway in regards to his statements about his work with the publisher. (Though it should be noted that DC Co-Publisher Jim Lee did discuss the matter in a recent CBR TV interview)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44966

[bac0n]

Anybody following Wonder Woman still? I found her exchange with Orion in the latest issue to be rather amusing.

[number8]

Yeah, I seem incapable of dropping it for some reason despite not enjoying it all that much.

[sevenarts]

Wonder Woman's one of maybe 3-4 good DC titles. Easily the best and most consistent of the launch titles. Loved that WW/Orion scene.

[ledfloyd]

I've let it go for now. I'll read the whole run whenever Azzarello leaves.

[number8]

Dial H and Demon Knights officially cancelled.

[Sven]

Dial H and Demon Knights officially cancelled.

Sigh...

[number8]

Ha!

http://www.hasdcdonesomethingstupidto day.com/

[number8]

I'm so glad I dropped Justice League Dark before all this Trinity War crossover. Nothing worse than buying a comic that's a random chapter in the middle of another book's story.

[bac0n]

Ha!

http://www.hasdcdonesomethingstupidto day.com/

Keeping that site up to date must be a herculean task.

[number8]

http://i.imgur.com/9rLSxIP.jpg

[Grouchy]

That Batman head on the second panel is a horrible drawing. I have some talented friends who could kick this "artist" out of a job.

[dreamdead]

That Batman head on the second panel is a horrible drawing. I have some talented friends who could kick this "artist" out of a job.

Worse, the border cuts off what could have been an awesome demonstration of the boobs-and-butt pose on the first panel. Sad.

[bac0n]

Yeah, that looks like Jason Voorhees in a Batman mask.

[number8]

We've got another one!

James Robinson has walked off Earth 2 and announced that he will no longer be writing for DC.

[Sven]

I'm pretty excited for Inc to end--I'm only reading it due to inertia now. Issue 11 is a fun idea but pretty embarrassingly executed, and everything around it from the dead boy to the raging bat Bruce is like instant pasta: hurried and limp.

I'm thinking Burnham might actually be a big part of the problem. Daniel's gloomy shades and statuesque flourishes would have fit the drama nicely, as well as giving it the heft of continuity from the last four+ years. With Burnham, this last act has become a cartoony jaunt, which has suited the story well in the past, but now is razing all prior investment.

[Fezzik]

I'll admit I'm not much of a comic book reader anymore, but I saw a spoiler of the new issue of JLA that confirms that DC just offed a major character.

When I saw who it was, my jaw dropped to the floor.

Then again, I'm not up on the stories anymore, so maybe it won't surprise everyone else :D

[number8]

I just found out about it too. The fuck? Does that mean her own book is getting cancelled?

[number8]

Holy shit. This has got to be a new low in blatant sales grabbing. For the September "villain month" gimmick, DC will be publishing multiple issues of their best selling titles (numbered 23.1, 23.2, etc), ensuring that Batman's most popular villains all get an issue.

4 issues of Batman: The Dark Knight
4 issues of Detective Comics
4 issues of Batman
4 issues of Batman & Robin
4 issues of Superman
4 issues of Action Comics
4 issues of Justice League
3 issues of The Flash
2 issues of Aquaman
2 issues of Earth 2

I think that makes it 28 Bat-related comics total in one month.

What nonsense. I'm gonna have to tell my LCS to completely skip this month for my pull list.

[ledfloyd]

I just found out about it too. The fuck? Does that mean her own book is getting cancelled?

Who is it?

[number8]

Who is it?

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk140/marquis_samedi/comic%20pages/photo3-600x571_zps6a6d9324.png

[sevenarts]

And I thought Marvel was bad with the double-shipping.

[number8]

DAMN, Paul Jenkins is not mincing words.


I have a publishing relationship that has lasted for years with Marvel. It was not always a perfect relationship, as both Marvel and I are aware. But while we have not always seen eye to eye, my business with Marvel is between myself and the company. Fans would be correct to have an issue with me if I simply aired my day-to-day grievances publicly without having a good reason to do so. But DC is a different matter altogether. Why am I willing to describe certain specific events during my brief encounter with them for the New 52? Because I am appalled at the way in which creators are being bullied, and somewhat freaked out at the things I saw in my own time there. I encountered more lies and veiled threats – more attempts to justify dysfunctional behavior and systems – than I have ever encountered in my career.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/05/the-bullying-of-creators-paul-jenkins-talks-about-leaving-dc-and-marvel-for-boom/

[number8]

That whole interview is heart sinking. Writers chasing editors who don't respond for over a week? That's insanity.

[Sven]

Way to go, Paul. Soon DC will be almost entirely off my pull list (the editorially-hashed hysteria of post-reboot Stormwatch is too hypnotizing to quit).

[sevenarts]

Could you imagine how bad those Jenkins Flash and Superman books would be, though? DC is a mess now but Jenkins could never be the cure.

[Sven]

So instead we get Manapul's milquetoast and Lobdell's hairballs. Gimme an idea man like Jenkins, whose talent should not be judged by high-concept summations, anyday.

[Acapelli]

Lex Luthor holds a gun to Ma and Pa Kent’s heads, asks Superman if he is “faster than a speeding bullet,” and then blows their brains out. The idea being that the only way to get this untouchable, invincible character is to drive him crazy.
I'm sorry that's fucking awful sub-mark millar trash

[number8]

Jenkins revealed one of the editorial notes he received on The Dark Knight:


I would like to relay an editorial comment that I received near the end of my time writing the Dark Knight New 52 series. In one scene, I had written that Batman is sitting on a rooftop during an intense conversation, close to a person who has been injured. The editorial comment: "We're not sure you are "getting" the character because it's common knowledge that Batman never sits down." This, mind you, after I had made it clear I was not going to rewrite material for the umpteenth time after it had already been approved.

Naturally, tumblr responded: http://batmansits.tumblr.com/

[number8]

I'm sorry that's fucking awful sub-mark millar trash

This is his response:


First of all, with regards to the Ma & Pa Kent idea: I actually told Eddie Berganza that I doubted my idea would be acceptable to DC, knowing that it would be difficult for them to publish. No problem, really. I happened to be doing similar stuff in Sentry at the time. I may have been too literal with this example. I did not particularly need to kill Ma and Pas Kent - I would have wanted to rock Superman's world to the core, and attack his confidence. The point was that something needed to happen to shake up Superman. If I were Lex Luthor I would go after his sanity because everything other path would seem too difficult. i might blackmail Superman, or kill his wife, or kill random people in the street until Superman flew off into space. Now that was my point - both to Eddie and in the context of this interview.

With regards to blowing of one of Flash's legs: okay, added to the first example it might seem that I like violence. But again, my point here is that while we want to see the heroes in action, the worst type of story in comics is where the hero runs into a villain, punches the villain hardest and wins. That is just not a story. To me, it would be more interesting for the readers to see their heroes challenged with something other than a giant killer robot from space, as cool as that might look. If I were pitching Flash, that is the kind of thing I would like to write. Let's see if we can get past the idea that DC are much better off without me because I wanted to dismember their characters, and perhaps get back to the point that the editorial interference is getting in the way of interesting stories.


And this is NOT about me being treated unfairly. This is about a truckload of good creators being forced to rewrite after stuff has been approved. It is about editors who should know better treating creators unfairly and then hiding behind "professionalism" as a reason not to solve the problem.

[Sven]

But again, my point here is that while we want to see the heroes in action, the worst type of story in comics is where the hero runs into a villain, punches the villain hardest and wins. That is just not a story.

Exactly. And as fun as it is to rag on DC of late, Marvel properties are historically twenty times worse in this regard.

[number8]

*BANGS HEAD ON DESK*

I should have seen this coming.

Batman: Zero Year is now a crossover, all the other Bat-books will have their own "Zero Year" stories too.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, crossovers were why I lost interest in comics 15 years ago, and it happened again.

[number8]

After a bunch of fill-ins, Greg Pak will be the Action Comics writer starting November. That's promising.

[Sven]

Recent hard dissing on Batman Inc does not prohibit a concession: this last issue was a grim, visceral sucker punch. Simultaneously and effectively corny and dark.

[Grouchy]

Recent hard dissing on Batman Inc does not prohibit a concession: this last issue was a grim, visceral sucker punch. Simultaneously and effectively corny and dark.
Is Morrison still writing? Honestly, I've only read Batman and Son because I don't like reading comics on the PC screen (and no tablet or such) but I know I will one day read all those crazy Bat-comics.

I didn't like to learn that he killed Damian Wayne so soon after introducing him, though.

[number8]

I didn't like to learn that he killed Damian Wayne so soon after introducing him, though.

...It's been 7 years.

[slqrick]

In other Batman news, Batman 66 anyone?

[Grouchy]

...It's been 7 years.
So? Granted, I haven't read these stories, but it seems to me like taking the easy way out instead of permanently altering the status quo.

[number8]

I wouldn't call 7 years "so soon" is all. That is a pretty long time for a writer to be building towards his character's death.

[EyesWideOpen]

I don't know why any one would be even the slightest bit bothered by comic book deaths since they are 99% of the time reversed whenever they want to use them again.

[number8]

Speaking of which, I live in constant fear that the New 52 will resurrect Tommy Monaghan.

[Ezee E]

I don't know why any one would be even the slightest bit bothered by comic book deaths since they are 99% of the time reversed whenever they want to use them again.

Exactly.

[sevenarts]

I both really want them to bring Damian back and really don't want it. Loved the little guy, but now that he's gone, I don't want them to cheapen all the intense, messy grief that Morrison and Tomasi have portrayed following his death.

And I don't care what anyone says, Inc is still great, an out of control hurtling rollercoaster of crazy emotion.

[slqrick]

Batman '66 ya'll.

[number8]

Ales Kot off Suicide Squad, leaves DC, plugs new Image series.

So it goes.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Ales Kot off Suicide Squad, leaves DC, plugs new Image series.

So it goes.

My little sister just lent me Vol. 1 of this series. Is it worth reading? I'm about ready to ignore all new DC output at this point.

[slqrick]

^ Gail Simone's Secret Six is a much, much better read. Get your hands on a volume of that if you can.

[number8]

My little sister just lent me Vol. 1 of this series. Is it worth reading? I'm about ready to ignore all new DC output at this point.

What slq said, but regardless, Ales Kot only came on as the writer in May. He's only had two issues out so far, which I didn't bother with, but it's the most acclaimed the book's been since the relaunch. Everyone's saying the book sucked until he came on.

So naturally, he's going to be off the book after only 4 issues. Because DC.

[sevenarts]

My little sister just lent me Vol. 1 of this series. Is it worth reading? I'm about ready to ignore all new DC output at this point.

Don't bother. Kot's two issues were the first time the series was actually pretty good, and look how long that lasted.

Just read John Ostrander and Kim Yale's 80s Suicide Squad instead. It's a shame that's never been collected.

[number8]

Yeah, Ostrander and Yale's SS is one of my favorite series of all time.

Comixology has all the issues, so digital's your best chance of reading it.

EDIT: Nevermind, they only have up to #29. Ugh.

[number8]

So this whole thread is interesting (read from the top tweet).

https://twitter.com/ales_kot/status/354941841117949952

[Sven]

A million mixed feelings about Kubert's Damian miniseries.

[number8]

lol, I didn't realize that DC released a video explaining Trinity War, including how it's going to end.

Don't watch if you're actually reading this event.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded& v=ncnbJtabH68

[number8]

*BANGS HEAD ON DESK*

I should have seen this coming.

Batman: Zero Year is now a crossover, all the other Bat-books will have their own "Zero Year" stories too.

I spoke too soon. It's not just the Bat-books now.

Action Comics, The Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern Corps and possibly more will all do "Zero Year" tie-ins later this year.

[slqrick]

Jesus.

I haven't read Batman since the Death of the Family debacle, and Batman Inc. is limping to a finish. Sad times.

[Ezee E]

I stopped reading all comics shortly after Death in the Family too.

I was thinking of looking for a store here in Cali this weekend, not sure what titles I'll go after.

[number8]

Image launched a bunch of new titles this year. Look them up.

Are you close to Meltdown Comics?

[Ezee E]

Image launched a bunch of new titles this year. Look them up.

Are you close to Meltdown Comics?

That's North Hollywood, why?

[EyesWideOpen]

Now is your chance to get weened off the DC/Marvel teat.

[number8]

That's North Hollywood, why?

Just wondering. It's a cool store, and they do a lot of events.

[Ezee E]

Just wondering. It's a cool store, and they do a lot of events.

I'll have to check it out sometime.

[number8]

Morrison drew a variant cover for his last issue of Inc.

http://i.imgur.com/xBy9E7I.jpg

[slqrick]

Looks cool. I just wish it hadn't run out steam after the Damien issue.

[Sven]

Inc concludes and it's the weakest of ass. Sigh... at least it's over now.

[number8]

What do you think of this excuse? It kinda sounds like he's telling people to blame the company.


Grant Morrison: I haven’t even thought of it yet. I’ll get to it when it’s done; the last one isn’t out yet. I really think a lot of people will hate it, because it’s super bleak. It kind of – to a certain extent it destroys the concept of Batman.

So I think a lot of people will not like it. But then a few years will pass, maybe a bit less, several months, and then people will start to say, “oh, this all makes sense.”

But I genuinely think it will cause a slight upset. Maybe if I say that it won’t!

Nrama: So is this like an “Empire Strikes Back” thing where it’s ending on a series of down notes?

Morrison: No, it’s not even that…

Part of what the Batman run has been is recapitulating the years of Batman and the different ways that Batman’s been dealt with. So I wanted to deal with that modern Batman that has started to get bleak again. The stuff that Scott [Snyder] is doing, that John Layman is doing, everyone is starting to get bleak again. You cannot bring Batman into the light, is basically what I’ve learned. So we wanted to acknowledge that in this last issue – it’s quite nightmarish in a way.

[slqrick]

I haven't read it yet, but I think he definitely was hurt by the fact that Batman Inc was essentially thrown in the backburner after the New 52 launched and it was no longer the premier Batman title, even though the events still "mattered" to the DCU. Some of his choices down the stretch have just been truly bizarre though, culminating in the issue of the Tokyo Batman's exploits, which exactly 0 people were clamoring for.

[number8]

That issue wasn't written by Morrison.

[Sven]

It is certainly a cynical conclusion. Every problem is resolved in a snap, things get back to square one in two pages, and there's a cliffhanger that basically says "look, all this is just the same dumb stuff over and over."

Less a reveal of the Batman mystique and more a demonstration of creative bankruptcy and publishing cowardice. Fightin' words.

The art is still pretty cool.

[slqrick]

That issue wasn't written by Morrison.

Ohhh, my bad. Clearly wasn't paying attention.

[sevenarts]

Kathy Kane as deus ex machina was really cool.

[number8]

Kathy Kane as deus ex machina was really cool.

Technically something is not a deus ex machina if it's set up at the beginning of the story.

[sevenarts]

OK, then Kathy Kane saving the day was really cool. That was probably the one moment in this issue that felt like a really great Morrisonian payoff, a nice resolution to some of the Silver Age concepts and characters he'd been resurrecting throughout his run. I still liked the issue OK overall, but I wish it'd had a few more moments and ideas of that nature, as is it wasn't the most thrilling or satisfying resolution to a run that's been one of the best thing going in comics at times over the years. This run definitely got sidetracked by the New 52 to some degree - when he started this run, Morrison's Batman was driving the whole Bat line, and that certainly wasn't the case anymore by the end, so some of the excitement drained out of it once Inc. was rebooted in the new continuity. It would've been a lot better if Morrison had been able to just ignore all that and finish up his run before the New 52 started.

[Sven]

The KK bit is one of the worst parts! So shoehorned, rendered so many machinations up to that point ineffectual, and the whole aspect she's representing leaves no wake, like it doesn't even register. What does her appearance mean for Batman? Nothing, apparently. No revealing tremors, no budding awarenesses.

These feelings are new and raw, and will likely change when I eventually reread G's Batsaga. But for now, I lament the absence of the expressive, ambitious, complicated braiding of plot, character, and concept that was RIP/Final Crisis/Return of Bruce Wayne/B&R. Heck, even the first half of Inc was tremendously entertaining.

[number8]

I'm convinced he wrote her in just to make that "I don't exist" joke.

[number8]

JESUS.


Asked by [Gene] Yang if he had tried to do an all-ages book with a franchise character, [Paul] Pope said he did test the waters, only to be knocked back. "Batman [Year 100] did pretty well, so I sat down with the head of DC Comics. I really wanted to do 'Kamandi [The Last Boy on Earth]', this Jack Kirby character. I had this great pitch… and he said 'You think this is gonna be for kids? Stop, stop. We don't publish comics for kids. We publish comics for 45-year olds. If you want to do comics for kids, you can do 'Scooby-Doo.' And I thought, 'I guess we just broke up.'"

We could've had a motherfucking Paul Pope Kamandi book, and the only reason it didn't happen is because DC isn't interested in publishing an all-ages book. That is fucking insanity.

[bac0n]

So, I guess that's why I can no longer find Tiny Titans at the comic shop :-(

[number8]

So, I guess that's why I can no longer find Tiny Titans at the comic shop :-(

Yeah, they cancelled TT at the beginning of this year.

[number8]

Er... If you were looking forward to Justice League 3000 (http://www.comicvine.com/articles/interview-j-m-dematteis-and-keith-giffen-talk-just/1100-146800/).

365535844636954624


Kevin Maguire (https://www.facebook.com/kevin.maguire.142) I don't know what there is to get in front of. I don't know what's going on. This morning I had something to work on and now I don't. Right now, my primary concern is to have something to do starting tomorrow that pays the bills.

[Sven]

"Last" issue of Dial was genius. Mieville and Ponticelli develop a tremendous conceptual model of creation and experience as it relates to narrative fiction. Kinda cornerstones the whole DCU in ways similar to Morrison's Superman Beyond and Moore's Promethea. Still in a bit of recoil from the book's sheer imaginative force.

Bummer about Maguire and Pope. Makes sense given DC's recent track record of "getting it right".

[Sven]

Appears that Maguire is staying with DC, just not on JL3K. Which is confusing because why would you have G&DM write a JL book and then not have Maguire draw it?

[number8]

Not only that, but they only offered him other projects AFTER he took to twitter and Facebook. Call me cynical...

Maguire definitely seemed like he had nothing lined up earlier today, and he still say that the whole thing was confusing and no one has told him why he got taken off the book.

It really bugs me when creators get taken off by editorial suddenly and for no reason, like the Gail Simone fiasco (also rehired only because she got online).

Question now: are they going to keep Maguire's designs for JL3000?

[sevenarts]

"Last" issue of Dial was genius. Mieville and Ponticelli develop a tremendous conceptual model of creation and experience as it relates to narrative fiction. Kinda cornerstones the whole DCU in ways similar to Morrison's Superman Beyond and Moore's Promethea. Still in a bit of recoil from the book's sheer imaginative force.

Yeah, this was very good, pretty much a perfect ending. Pretty funny, too, that this dismantling of the idea of ownership over concepts appears in a corporate comic like this. The imagination and vitality of this book has consistently put to shame pretty much everything else DC is putting out these days.

I can't wait to see what they come up with for that Justice League issue.

[Sven]

I wonder how the Dial U would have developed had Mieville had more time. The last issue could have been a whole arc itself. Oh, the things that could have been.

[number8]

I dropped Batwoman and Jonah Hex, finally. Only Wonder Woman, Batman, and Batgirl left on my pull list, I think? I'm not wowed by any of them, either. I'm gonna keep WW and Batgirl mostly for political reasons (it's silly, I'm aware) and I'm gonna stick out Batman through this Zero Year nonsense just to see how it goes.

Told my LCS that under no circumstances that he should put any Villains month issue in my box.

[sevenarts]

Wonder Woman is the last great DC title left now that Inc and Dial H are done. Pretty sad that out of 50 or so titles coming out monthly, exactly one is really great. There's a few more in a second tier. Animal Man is recovering nicely after the slog of Rotworld (the annual with Travel Foreman back on art was fantastic). Batman & Robin has been consistently good, and I may even stick around if Carrie Kelley becomes Robin (just as I'll definitely leave if Harper Row becomes Robin). Batwoman's fun but is probably well on its way into irrelevance with Williams more or less off the art now. Earth 2 has been not bad but of course now Robinson is leaving. And that's about it. It's pathetic, particularly compared to how much great stuff is coming out of Marvel, including some nice eccentric fringe books of the kind that DC cancels within a year but which seem to be doing OK at Marvel.

[number8]

This is pretty cool, though.

http://i.imgur.com/8i21Bsl.jpg

[Ezee E]

Pretty terrifying to look at.

[number8]

This JL3000 situation is getting weirder. They just announced that Howard Porter is going to do the book and #1 is delayed because Porter will be redrawing the entire issue. The issue that Maguire drew will not see print.

365878866008485891

[Grouchy]

Well, I don't want to make any big deal about it but I suppose I should say something. This is, as I tweeted, very humiliating. Obviously, I was looking forward to working on a fairly high profile book. I haven't had a top ten book since the 80s and I thought this would finally be my shot at doing one. But it's DC's book, it's their property, they can do whatever they want with it. They don't owe me anything. I've been told they wanted a book that was "dark and gritty", so I'm perplexed as to why they chose us for that. We did exactly the kind of book you would expect from us. Lots of action and humor. AND I turned down a Bendis X-Men project to do JL3K.As for my doing other projects with DC, they offered me a four page story and a 10 page digital first story. They're paychecks, so I'm grateful for that, but they're no Justice League #1. I really don't want to do back ups and fill-ins for my career. So, right now, I'll do the four pager and then I think that'll be it for me and DC for a while. I've received some interesting offers from other companies. Marvel generously offered me an issue of a cool book, so I'm going to do that for now, then see what happens.
I was supposed to do Baltimore Comic Con next month with Giffen and DeMatteis, but I'll be canceling that for obvious reason. Apart from the fact that I no longer have a project to promote with them, Giffen's Newsarama quote, which I'm certain had no intended malice, still kinda stung.
That's it. That covers all I have to say about this. It'll be forgotten news by next week and we all move on with our lives.

I'm curious what's the "Giffen Newsarama quote". I couldn't find it.

[number8]

This:


“The guy who nailed the character designs on the interior of the book? The guy who teamed with Grant Morrison to make JLA a hit? This is what they call a no-brainer,” series co-writer Keith Giffen said in a exclusive statement to Newsarama. “Welcome aboard Howard. I think this is the beginning of a beautiful collaboration.”

When I read that bolded part, I immediately cringed thinking at how suck that must be for Maguire to hear.

[Sven]

I'm curious what's the "Giffen Newsarama quote". I couldn't find it.

I think it was:

“The guy who nailed the character designs on the interior of the book? The guy who teamed with Grant Morrison to make JLA a hit? This is what they call a no-brainer. Welcome aboard Howard. I think this is the beginning of a beautiful collaboration.”

Edit: d'oh! 8's quick fingers...

[number8]

Geez. First they spoiled the ending of Trinity War to promote Forever Evil. Now they've spoiled Forever Evil by releasing this poster the event leads up to:

http://assets2.ignimgs.com/2013/08/09/fepromojpg-e93902.jpg

[number8]

...Wat. Starting with issue #2, Vertigo is changing Collider's title to FBP: Federal Bureau of Physics.

[number8]

Including holograms in the new Batman origin seemed so unnecessary.

[Acapelli]

scott snyder is the king of the unnecessary

[number8]

Justice League of America will be renamed Justice League of Canada after Forever Evil. lol.

[number8]

Here it is, the new Lobo in the New 52:

http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/112/071/original/Lobo_C_kr.jpg?1377276587

[Grouchy]

That's just fucking offensive, and I'm not even the biggest Lobo fan.

[number8]

It appears to be a genuine attempt to make him a mean, ruthless bounty hunter rather than an anachronistic campy cliche. Which just sounds so sad.

[Sven]

But regular Lobo has already appeared in the new 52...

[number8]

But regular Lobo has already appeared in the new 52...

It's really silly. They're retconning the brute in Deathstroke as an identity thief. The Lobo being introduced in Villains month will be chasing him down for daring to steal and dishonor his name.

[Sven]

What about Stormwatch? Or is that a silly question?

[ledfloyd]

the new Batman origin seemed so unnecessary.

ftfy

[number8]

Despite its cynical conception, the Batman Inc special was actually a whole lot of fun. Not a bad story in the bunch.

[sevenarts]

I especially liked the Burnham story. But then I think I was more positive than most here about his solo issue of Inc. The rest of the special was at least OK.

[Grouchy]

Despite its cynical conception
Curious as to why because I genuinely have no idea.

[number8]

Curious as to why because I genuinely have no idea.

Because Morrison has zero input in it and most of the people who contributed never even worked with him, and it came out after Grant's left. It's entirely a cash grab.

[slqrick]

lol DC (Forever Evil #1 spoiler):

http://i.imgur.com/fAr60Vo.jpg

[number8]

lolwut

In case someone doesn't understand what's going on: that's Ultraman, whose power increases when exposed to kryptonite. Him freebasing kryptonite is ridiculous and new, though.

[number8]

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS.

JH Williams III and WH Blackman have both decided to walk off Batwoman. Possibly DC?


Dear Batwoman readers -

From the moment DC asked us to write Batwoman — a dream project for both of us — we were committed to the unofficial tagline “No Status Quo.” We felt that the series and characters should always be moving forward, to keep changing and evolving. In order to live up to our mantra and ensure that each arc took Batwoman in new directions, we carefully planned plotlines and story beats for at least the first five arcs well before we ever wrote a single issue. We’ve been executing on that plan ever since, making changes whenever we’ve come up with a better idea, but in general remaining consistent to our core vision.


Unfortunately, in recent months, DC has asked us to alter or completely discard many long-standing storylines in ways that we feel compromise the character and the series. We were told to ditch plans for Killer Croc’s origins; forced to drastically alter the original ending of our current arc, which would have defined Batwoman’s heroic future in bold new ways; and, most crushingly, prohibited from ever showing Kate and Maggie actually getting married. All of these editorial decisions came at the last minute, and always after a year or more of planning and plotting on our end.


We’ve always understood that, as much as we love the character, Batwoman ultimately belongs to DC. However, the eleventh-hour nature of these changes left us frustrated and angry — because they prevent us from telling the best stories we can. So, after a lot of soul-searching, we’ve decided to leave the book after Issue 26.


We’re both heartbroken over leaving, but we feel strongly that you all deserve stories that push the character and the series forward. We can’t reliably do our best work if our plans are scrapped at the last minute, so we’re stepping aside. We are committed to bringing our run to a satisfying conclusion and we think that Issue 26 will leave a lasting impression.


We are extremely thankful for the opportunity to work on Batwoman. It’s been one of the most challenging and rewarding projects of our careers. We’ll always be grateful to everyone who helped us realize 26 issues: Mike Siglain, who brought us onto the project originally; Greg Rucka for inspirationally setting the stage; our amazing artists Amy Reeder, Trevor McCarthy, Pere Perez, Rob Hunter, Walden Wong, Sandu Florea, Richard Friend, Francesco Francavilla, Guy Major, Dave Stewart, and Todd Klein; Larry Ganem, for listening in tough times; and editors Mike Marts, Harvey Richards, Rickey Purdin, and Darren Shan.


And most of all, a huge thank you to everyone who read the book. Hearing your voices, your reactions, your enthusiasm every month was such a joy, so humbling, so rewarding. You guys rock! Because so many of you embraced the series, we were able to complete four arcs, and your passion for Batwoman encouraged us to push ourselves to do our best work with each and every issue.


Thank you for loving Batwoman as much as we do.


Goodbye for now,


Haden & J H

Williams posted that on his website, which has since crashed from the traffic.

[sevenarts]

Wow. Batwoman without Rucka was uneven anyway, and Williams was done drawing it so it was bound to lose something, but it was still pretty good a lot of the time. And whatever you think of how the series has been, the specific things that Williams mentions are really damning towards DC.

[dreamdead]

Not all that surprising, sadly. I've been waiting for number8 to post something like this in this thread since April. Hopefully Williams'll end up at Image doing some creator-owned title that comes out bimonthly (the Saga schedule could work for him), where he can explore sexual-political concepts that his editors won't force him to alter.

[bac0n]

Jesus. After issue 26 I'll be down to Wonder Woman for my DC list.

[number8]

Honestly, I give Azzarello until about issue 30 before he leaves too. I'm happy to be wrong on that, but his comments have had an air of days-being-numbered. He's been successfully pushing back on the Superman/WW romance, but who knows how long DC's going to be indulging him?

[number8]

I've been waiting for number8 to post something like this in this thread since April.

I dislike that 4 out of 5 times I come into this thread is to report some shitty thing DC is doing. I don't want this.

[sevenarts]

Wonder Woman is too good to be part of the current DC. It's actually surreal looking through their current lineup and seeing that one consistent bright spot amidst all these revolving-door creative teams, shitty gimmicks, and boring story-by-committee messes. They just don't have anything else with that kind of creative vision, ingenuity, and passion behind it. Clearly Marvel should just buy Wonder Woman, that book would fit in much better over there.

[bac0n]

I dislike that 4 out of 5 times I come into this thread is to report some shitty thing DC is doing. I don't want this.

I was thinking the same thing. Whenever I see a new post in this thread on the Literature screen, my first reaction is, "oh no, what now?"

[Grouchy]

What puzzles me is what goes through the mind of these editors. Sales might not go down, so financially there's no strain, but... superhero comics have a relentless, unforgiving fandom. People consider Karen Berger or Len Wein heroes for the groundbreaking authors they supported. Do you really want to go down in history as their polar opposite?

[ledfloyd]

What the fuck. Sure, just drive out the greatest artist currently working in comics. Because that makes sense.

[slqrick]

I dislike that 4 out of 5 times I come into this thread is to report some shitty thing DC is doing. I don't want this.

That's why this site (http://hasdcdonesomethingstupidtoday. com/) continues to have a daily relevance. Can't make this stuff up, apparently.

[number8]

It's Marvel's gain. Bendis has already asked Williams to call him, just like he asked Maguire a few weeks back.

[ledfloyd]

And when you thought it couldn't get any worse: http://jezebel.com/dc-comics-contest-draw-a-naked-woman-committing-suicid-1265537616

[Grouchy]

I'm not gonna go crazy about defending DC, but for the life of me I can't figure out what's the problem with the Harley Quinn panel. People are weird.

[Ezee E]

Isn't it just kind of odd to have a contest of drawing a naked girl about killing herself? I mean, it seems like a joke.

[Grouchy]

Because...

[Sven]

The character's history of Timmy cheesecake poses justifies the nudity. The character's history of comic violence justifies the tone. The character's history of wanton psychoses justifies the suicide theme.

This is an instance where I gotta pull a B-side-style "Seriously, guys, calm down."

[sevenarts]

And now DC has pushed Williams off Batwoman even earlier, shelving his already-written scripts, so his last issue will be #24. And in typical DC fashion, he only found this out when Dan Didio talked about it at a comic convention.

[number8]

The character's history of Timmy cheesecake poses justifies the nudity. The character's history of comic violence justifies the tone. The character's history of wanton psychoses justifies the suicide theme.

This is an instance where I gotta pull a B-side-style "Seriously, guys, calm down."

True, and I think the fact that they just released contextless descriptions of it as a "breaking in" contest and that both Jim Lee and Palmiotti had to go and explain to everybody that it's supposed to be breaking-the-fourth-wall tongue-in-cheek is the real boneheaded move. No one would have made a stink if it's just an issue that comes out, where the tone of the scene is clear.

[number8]

And now DC has pushed Williams off Batwoman even earlier, shelving his already-written scripts, so his last issue will be #24. And in typical DC fashion, he only found this out when Dan Didio talked about it at a comic convention.

Yep, and guess why? The #25 that replaces theirs is a Zero Year tie-in, which Williams and Blackman once again didn't plan on participating in, the way they ignored the two previous Bat crossovers. With them quitting, DC saw a chance to jump on the Zero Year bandwagon.

[Grouchy]

True, and I think the fact that they just released contextless descriptions of it as a "breaking in" contest and that both Jim Lee and Palmiotti had to go and explain to everybody that it's supposed to be breaking-the-fourth-wall tongue-in-cheek is the real boneheaded move. No one would have made a stink if it's just an issue that comes out, where the tone of the scene is clear.
This is probably what happened. If I remember Mad Love correctly, she also tries to kill herself in that at one point and it has never been a problem.

People on websites ranting about it, though... they're acting like censors. It's weird.

[slqrick]

Gail Simone, Waid and others chimed in (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/10/the-harley-quinn-tryout-page-debate-that-refuses-to-er-dc-comics-gail-simone-mark-waid-kurt-busiek/)on this. Didn't read the whole thing, but figured it's relevant for the thread.