Moneyball (Bennett Miller)

[Watashi]

Trailer (http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1810166670/video/25625800)

Pitt, Sorkin, and baseball? Yes, please.

[DavidSeven]

Not seeing what's immediately interesting about this film. That trailer was the definition of inert.

[Watashi]

Not seeing what's immediately interesting about this film. That trailer was the definition of inert.
Looks as interesting as someone making a movie about Facebook.

[Ivan Drago]

Wally Pfister is the DP too. Looks really good.

[Ezee E]

The movie doesn't interest me much, but Pitt mixed with Sorkin dialog seems like a gold idea.

[Ezee E]

Looks as interesting as someone making a movie about Facebook.
Yeah, but the story of how facebook was made was actually interesting.

[DavidSeven]

Looks as interesting as someone making a movie about Facebook.

I don't think that's true.

[Ezee E]

And Bennett Miller is several tiers below Fincher.

[DavidSeven]

Also, the last minute of this trailer was a totally shameless knockoff of Friday Night Lights.

[Watashi]

I wasn't comparing this to the quality of The Social Network. You just can't write something off because the premise doesn't "interest" you.

[Dukefrukem]

meh. Jonah Hill annoys me.

[Watashi]

Heh. Looking through the cast of the film, former SS Royce Clayton plays Miguel Tejeda.

[Robby P]

The casting director for this movie had one hell of a sense of humor.

[Ezee E]

I wasn't comparing this to the quality of The Social Network. You just can't write something off because the premise doesn't "interest" you.
Then why'd you compare it then?

[DavidSeven]

I wasn't comparing this to the quality of The Social Network. You just can't write something off because the premise doesn't "interest" you.

Can I write it off if the premise doesn't interest me and I think Bennett Miller is a hack?

[Watashi]

Can I write it off if the premise doesn't interest me and I think Bennett Miller is a hack?
Can you be a hack with one film on your resume?

I didn't know Capote was so loathed around here (it was decent).

[Dukefrukem]

After watching the trailer:

Oh wow, Pitt really is supposed to be Billy Bean. Haha. They made a movie out of this???

This will earn aprox $40 at the box office.

[Dukefrukem]

Haha, I'm such a Red Sox fan I can tell they are filming at Fenway part at 1:45

edit: and Scott Hatterberg! I wonder if they'll throw in the year the Sox beat them in the ALDS in 2003. They did have a good team back then and it WAS because of BB. But they never won anything.

[Irish]

I haven't read the book, but I gotta wonder what trailer you guys watched.

I thought that looked awesome.

Goofy casting on the surface, but this looks worth seeing just for interplay between Pitt and Hill alone.

[Dukefrukem]

I'll probably watch Blindside before I watch this. I also hate sports movies.

[Ezee E]

I'll probably watch Blindside before I watch this. I also hate sports movies.
This can't be a sports movie. The highlight would be winning two games of the playoffs.

[Dukefrukem]

This can't be a sports movie. The highlight would be winning two games of the playoffs.

They could change the outcome a little for the movie, but in the early 00s the As were seen as a very impressive team because of their small payroll and stellar focus on pitching. Remember The Mulder, Zito, Hudson, Hanson, combo....

[Ezee E]

They could change the outcome a little for the movie, but in the early 00s the As were seen as a very impressive team because of their small payroll and stellar focus on pitching. Remember The Mulder, Zito, Hudson, Hanson, combo....
Maybe on a 20 game win streak? Either way, it's about as entertaining as the result of the first Major League movie, but without Charlie Sheen.

[Morris Schæffer]

The casting director for this movie had one hell of a sense of humor.

Bobby Kotick, CEO of Activision, plays Pitt's boss!

At 0:17 in the trailer.

[Dukefrukem]

Bobby Kotick, CEO of Activision, plays Pitt's boss!

At 0:17 in the trailer.

This seals it. I will not support anything involving Activision.

[Spinal]

Dear god, no. I can think of few things I'd rather do than hear Aaron Sorkin's musings on baseball.

[D_Davis]

HA HA Wats! Looks like your thread got shat upon!

BURN.

[megladon8]

I find Aaron Sorkin to be a very boring writer.

[number8]

This can't be a sports movie.

http://wapedia.mobi/thumb/efb7498/en/fixed/140/220/Sportsnightpromo.JPG?format=jp g

[Sven]

Looks like garbage.

[Spinal]

The casting director for this movie had one hell of a sense of humor.

Most of the characters are real people, like Art Howe and David Justice and Jorge Posada, etc.

However, Robin Wright is listed as playing "Sharon". I smell another composite character.

[Watashi]

HA HA Wats! Looks like your thread got shat upon!

BURN.
I try to please.

[Ezee E]

Sorkin's anything but a boring writer. That's the only reason I'd consider seeing the movie at this point.

[Watashi]

Also, I'm still waiting on how a director can be a hack with only one film under his belt.

[Watashi]

Sorkin's anything but a boring writer. That's the only reason I'd consider seeing the movie at this point.
Steve Zaillan wrote the original draft but apparently it was so bad, Soderbergh left the film and they hired Sorkin and Bennett.

[Ezee E]

Steve Zaillan wrote the original draft but apparently it was so bad, Soderbergh left the film and they hired Sorkin and Bennett.
Sounded like Soderbergh nearly made it a documentary instead, but quit a few days before.

I never said anything about Bennett Miller being a hack. Capote was a fine movie to me actually. The acting is pretty great all around in it. He was able to capture an essence of time very well too. But nothing like how Fincher was able to capture the time in Zodiac. And, I've made my opinion enough on this movie. The book doesn't even iinterest me. The Accidental Billionaires did.

[Spinal]

Sorkin's not a boring writer. He's an overwrought writer. His writing draws attention to itself in a bad way.

[number8]

I liked one Bennett Miller movie. (http://www.justpressplay.net/articles/7282-watch-out-the-cruise-1998.html)

[DavidSeven]

I just don't get the Jonah Hill casting. Buying him as an economics wiz is hard enough, but then you're telling me he's playing this guy...

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/images/2004/02/18/aiyDNFwn.jpg

Come on.

[DavidSeven]

Not to say the guys have to look or sound like their real-life counterparts, but if you're going to veer that far off of reality, seems you might as well pull for a better actor.

[Spinal]

People don't like Capote? I thought that was just a bizarre Sven eccentricity.

[Spinal]

Not to say the guys have to look or sound like their real-life counterparts, but if you're going to veer that far off of reality, seems you might as well pull for a better actor.

If I was Peter Brand, I would have to feel shafted. Your Hollywood counterpart is supposed to be more handsome that you are.

[Spinal]

If I was Peter Brand, I would have to feel shafted. Your Hollywood counterpart is supposed to be more handsome that you are.

Then again, Art Howe kind of got hosed too.

[DavidSeven]

If I was Peter Brand, I would have to feel shafted. Your Hollywood counterpart is supposed to be more handsome that you are.

I read that "Peter Brand" is a made up name in place of Paul DePodesta. DePodesta asked for his name to be taken off the film some time after Hill's casting. Ouch.

[Spinal]

I read that "Peter Brand" is a made up name in place of Paul DePodesta. DePodesta asked for his name to be taken off the film some time after Hill's casting. Ouch.

:lol: That is awesome.

[Watashi]

The part was originally going to go to Dimitri Martin.

I think Hill is a step up. After Cyrus, Hill has proven to do more than act like a juvenile jackass.

[DavidSeven]

The part was originally going to go to Dimitri Martin.

Not familiar with the guy, but judging by pictures, he's far more plausible as a young DePodesta.

[Watashi]

It's funny too, because after filming Moneyball, Jonah Hill lost a lot of weight for his role in 21 Jump Street.

http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/21_jump_street-550x303.jpg

[Ivan Drago]

^ Damn. Good for him!


I liked one Bennett Miller movie. (http://www.justpressplay.net/articles/7282-watch-out-the-cruise-1998.html)

Yeah, The Cruise is excellent.

[megladon8]

People don't like Capote? I thought that was just a bizarre Sven eccentricity.


I preferred the version with Toby Jones, Infamous. It was both a better film, and a better performance as Truman Capote.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I thought Capote was fantastic.

*shrug*

[Winston*]

I think the word "hack" gets thrown around too much. I'm not a big fan of Capote, but its hardly hackwork.

[Winston*]

You just can't write something off because the premise doesn't "interest" you.

Why can't you do this? This seems like a good reason to write off something.

[Irish]

Capote was a good movie.

I liked it mostly for the questions it raised, about Capote knowing that the boys had to die for him to get his book, how that just killed his soul in the end.

And for the line, "It's as if Perry and I grew up in the same house. And one day he stood up and went out the back door, while I went out the front." That's such a great line I could watch the entire movie just to hear it again.

Jonah Hill might have a chance at interesting if he gets away from the kind of movies he's been doing, away from the Apatow/Rogen 'comedy' crowd.

21 Jump Street is probably a step in the wrong direction. I get a Starsky and Hutch reboot vibe from it.

Moneyball seems like a step in the right direction.

[Irish]

A little more background on the movie, from back in 2009:


It all started when a woman named Rachael Horovitz decided that she needed some good books to read when she went to Tahiti in 2003 for a much-needed vacation. Having spent years working at Fine Line and Revolution, Horovitz decided to strike out on her own and become a producer. She fell in love with "Moneyball," not so much for its inside take on baseball, but because it was such a compelling example of a workplace drama. "For me, the movie is a love story about a man and his job," she explained the other day.

The film rights were there for the taking. "Every studio had passed on the book," she recalled.... "Of course, they all asked the same question -- how do you make a movie out of it? I kept telling everyone 'This is a story anyone can relate to, because it's basically a second chance story. It's about a guy whose early failure could have doomed him to failure, but managed to turn it into a huge life lesson.'"

More: http://articles.latimes.com/print/2009/jun/02/entertainment/et-bigpicture2

[Rowland]

I forgot Capote existed.

[eternity]

Sounded like Soderbergh nearly made it a documentary instead, but quit a few days before.



He didn't quit; Amy Pascal fired him and the film was then shopped around to other studios and nobody wanted it, so they started over.

[transmogrifier]

I have not seen Capote nor Infamous. I don't think I ever will.

Sorry I can't solve the debate this time guys.

[transmogrifier]

Why can't you do this? This seems like a good reason to write off something.

Exactly. It's how we decide what movies we watch, isn't it?

I doubt Wats watches every single movie ever released, so I wonder how HE decides which movies not to bother with. Title font on the poster?

[Irish]

Sorry I can't solve the debate this time guys.

Are you sure? Not knowing what you're talking about has never stopped you from trying before.

:P ;)

[transmogrifier]

Are you sure? Not knowing what you're talking about has never stopped you from trying before.


Fine. Capote is better because it has a shorter title and so I waste less of my life typing it out. Done.

[Irish]

Fine. Capote is better because it has a shorter title and so I waste less of my life typing it out. Done.

:lol: I owe you a +1. Great comeback.

[Watashi]

Exactly. It's how we decide what movies we watch, isn't it?

I doubt Wats watches every single movie ever released, so I wonder how HE decides which movies not to bother with. Title font on the poster?

Director. Cast. Reviews.

Plot synopsis is one of the last things that makes me excited to see a movie.

[Ezee E]

This is good.

Sorkin/Pitt are a great matchup.

Probably an ideal fantasy baseball fan's movie.

[Kiusagi]

This is good.

Sorkin/Pitt are a great matchup.

Probably an ideal fantasy baseball fan's movie.

I've read at some places that Sorkin rewrote the script originally by Zaillian, while some say it was the other way around. So it definitely has Sorkin's style?

Really looking forward to this, either way.

[MadMan]

I'm a fan of Pitt, and the previews make this look halfway solid, so I'm interested in seeing it now. Well that and to get a good look at a guy who could end up being the Cubs' GM (probably not, but you never know).

[Ezee E]

I've read at some places that Sorkin rewrote the script originally by Zaillian, while some say it was the other way around. So it definitely has Sorkin's style?

Really looking forward to this, either way.
I don't know Sorkin that well, but there's exchanges that are similar to the ones in Social Network.

Combine that with the overall tenderness of the whole movie. It RESPECTS baseball more then most baseball movies, as a game. There's hardly any baseball in it for that matter too.

[MadMan]

Just like many other genre heavy movies, the best baseball films are the ones that have more to offer than just baseball.

[Raiders]

From my understanding, Zaillian's original script was the project with Soderbergh directing, but that fell through when Soderbergh's vision couldn't be reconciled with the script. Then, in order to keep it moving, they brought in Sorkin to do a rewrite. Then, I guess not completely happy with his efforts, they brought back in Zaillian again to do a final rewrite.

So... whatever. I'm rather looking forward to it, but it seems likely a DVD/Netflix movie.

[Dukefrukem]

This is good.

Sorkin/Pitt are a great matchup.

Probably an ideal fantasy baseball fan's movie.

Tell me this; Did they end the movie with a made up outcome? Or did they have them losing to the Sox in 2003 ALDS?

[Ezee E]

Tell me this; Did they end the movie with a made up outcome? Or did they have them losing to the Sox in 2003 ALDS?
It focuses on the 2002 season, not 2003.

And it follows seasonal facts exactly.

It even mentions Boston winning it in 2003. There's a good clip of Youkilis, with Beane's assistant obsessing over him, and mentioning that nobody liked him because of his batting stance.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Does it deal with Beane's homosexuality, or does it ignore that aspect of the book?

[Robby P]

Billy Beane is married and has three kids. I think you're confusing him with Billy Bean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bean).

[Ezee E]

Does it deal with Beane's homosexuality, or does it ignore that aspect of the book?
Well, there's maybe two female characters in the whole thing. His ex-wife married to a Spike Jonze looking guy, and the daughter.... Not one other.

Oh, a secretary or two.

There is no mention of his admiration for Tottenham.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Billy Beane is married and has three kids. I think you're confusing him with Billy Bean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bean).

Gah! You're right. My mistake. Was Billy Bean talked about in Moneyball, or am I getting my books confused?

[Robby P]

Billy Bean wrote a book called Going the Other Way (http://www.amazon.com/Going-Other-Way-Major-League-Baseball/dp/1569244863) which went into detail about his homosexuality.

[soitgoes...]

It focuses on the 2002 season, not 2003.The best baseball season of my life. Awesome.

[Robby P]

The worst baseball season of mine. :evil:

[soitgoes...]

The worst baseball season of mine. :evil:
Sorry. Stupid Scott Spiezio.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Billy Bean wrote a book called Going the Other Way (http://www.amazon.com/Going-Other-Way-Major-League-Baseball/dp/1569244863) which went into detail about his homosexuality.

Nope. Never read it. I must be confused.

[number8]

No, you're not. Don't let others tell you that you're "confused" for being who you really are.

[Kurosawa Fan]

No, you're not. Don't let others tell you that you're "confused" for being who you really are.

Stop hitting on me.

[Morris Schæffer]

Emanuel levy thinks jonah hill should get a supporting actor nom!

[number8]

All right.

[Watashi]

Morris Schaeffer: Posting useless information since 2007!

[Derek]

Sorry if it's been mentioned before, but this has to be one of the laziest film posters I've seen in a while:

http://www.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Moneyball-Theatrical-Poster-Brad-Pitt.jpg

[MadMan]

Its so green!

[Watashi]

This movie is terrific.

It's very baseball-heavy. I don't quite get the "you don't need to know baseball to enjoy this movie!" mentality, as someone clueless about it will definitely get lost in all baseball lingo.

There's a scene between Pitt and Hill during the trade deadline that's just amazingly well done and it's all over a middle-relief pitcher.

[Ezee E]

This movie is terrific.

It's very baseball-heavy. I don't quite get the "you don't need to know baseball to enjoy this movie!" mentality, as someone clueless about it will definitely get lost in all baseball lingo.

There's a scene between Pitt and Hill during the trade deadline that's just amazingly well done and it's all over a middle-relief pitcher.
Great scene indeed. I can't say I know people's baseball knowledge, but the acting had these teenage girls laugh the whole way through when they were talking with each other. It still works.

[Sxottlan]

A strangely engaging film. Strange because I'm not remotely a baseball fan. But while there is affection for the game in the film, it's really not romanticized at all. Players are treated like cattle or in this case, currency. They're traded and with exception of a few of them, they're pretty anonymous.

Lately I've become convinced people can love sports so much because they're stand ins for combat and this is the story of the logistics of a military campaign. Beane and Brand move their players around like pieces on a chessboard. The trade deadline scene was great and even though I don't follow baseball, I think I was able to follow along.

I also enjoy movies and shows about ideas. The Social Network kind of had this angle and so does Moneyball. Seeing something new trying to take root and become the standard. Reading an SI article tonight, turns out that this style of drafting and signing players more or less has become the norm.

Pitt and Hill are great. Loved the scene too of Brand having to tell Pena he's been traded. An interesting reversal with the portly bookworm telling the athlete that he's done. Hoffman is kind of wasted.

[TGM]

I must say, the more I hear about this movie, the more interested I am in seeing it. Just might end up checking it out sometime this week.

[MadMan]

This was actually a really great movie, one that can appeal to both baseball lovers (myself) and those who aren't as big a fan of the game itself. The humor comes off as well played and not forced at all, and the performances are all excellent-especially Hill, which was a surprise to me. I'll be shocked if Pitt doesn't merit recognition come awards time, but he's been passed over unfairly before.

Two of my favorite scenes are Hill and Pitt trying to get a middle RP (as noted already), and Hoffman's reaction to Pitt telling him he's undercut him as manager due to Hoffman's refusal to follow Pitt's orders.

[DavidSeven]

I can only describe this as a pleasant little film that's bound to please folks from all sectors. I can see why it has 94% approval from the critics. At the same time, I'm guessing a lot of those views aren't raves. This movie is perfectly OK. It's so inoffensively OK that people just aren't going to deride it. Capote, anyone? Pitt is OK as Beane; Hill is still a stretch as a Yale educated econ wiz; and yes, the movie is about 15-20 minutes too long. Miller's direction is fine, but still several notches below Fincher's work on the similarly talky/number-y The Social Network. As for Sorkin's contribution (in collaboration with Zaillan), his first ode to Ivy League nerds (the aforementioned TSN) was definitely more polished, if similarly flawed.

[Dukefrukem]

I liked this more than I thought I would. I can't tell if it's my love for baseball and how I lived through most of these events, or if it really was an interesting story. Did they write Billy Beane's childish behavior into the story to make it more interesting? Or were there reports that he did things like, throw things out of his office? tip over water coolers? Smash stereos? Drive in circles in parking lots?

[Robby P]

This was overly dramatized to the point of absurdity. The story isn't nearly interesting enough to carry a two hour long Hollywood production so they really have to crank up the histrionics and embellish the details. Sorkin's dialogue is sharp as usual but the story just doesn't translate very well.

It tries very hard to avoid the pitfalls of a formulaic sports movie but it ultimately succumbs to just that.

[Dukefrukem]

This was overly dramatized to the point of absurdity. The story isn't nearly interesting enough to carry a two hour long Hollywood production so they really have to crank up the histrionics and embellish the details. Sorkin's dialogue is sharp as usual but the story just doesn't translate very well.

It tries very hard to avoid the pitfalls of a formulaic sports movie but it ultimately succumbs to just that.

I agree, and that was the ultimate decision on why I gave it a Nay. Hard to write a story on a team where nothing happens. I loved the actor that played John Henry at the end and it’s interesting they mentioned the Red Sox two titles under Beane’s philosophy. If the A’s had more money to spend, they’d be in the playoffs every year.

[Morris Schæffer]

"This better work."

That cracked me up, especially because Hill's Brandt was such a demure, cuddly presence. :)

A good movie really. A bit dry, trying its damndest to make a halfway boring subject look exciting and invigorating and mostly succeeding thanks to some sharp dialogue and verbal sparring. That meeting where Brandt sits in for the first time was pretty exciting. There is little feel for Brandt's talent or how these guys incorporate statistical work - a few spreadsheets left and right is all we get - but perhaps that's a good call. There's no doubt what the movie's about anyway.

Acting's good. Hill was believable, but at the same time a bit underwhelming. I had the feeling he played rotund kid who just sits on chair and occasionally opens his mouth. But perhaps that's good acting. Ya know, of the not-so-showy kind.

I liked it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Benny Profane]

It was great to reminisce about the time Hatteberg and David Justice slugged their way to a Division title with no overhand pitching, save Rincon.

How do you make a movie like that and just leave out the entire all-star pitching staff, along with your 3-4-5 hitters? You think they had any effect on the team being good?

I honestly couldn't believe it. The AL MVP and Cy Young winner from 2002 were on that team and weren't mentioned even once, as far as I can remember.

[Robby P]

Miguel Tejada is played by Royce Clayton (lol) but I don't remember him having any lines in the movie. They show him fielding grounders at one point.

[Watashi]

I assume it's because Mulder and Zito didn't want their names to be a part of the film.

[eternity]

I assume it's because Mulder and Zito didn't want their names to be a part of the film.
You do see their names in the background at least once.

[Ezee E]

It is pretty surprising that the movie never even mentions that they had the best rotation in baseball that year, including two of the top five Cy Young players, and MVP as mentioned.

It's a good movie, but upon retrospect, it gets a little worse when it doesn't mention those key points.

[Watashi]

It is pretty surprising that the movie never even mentions that they had the best rotation in baseball that year, including two of the top five Cy Young players, and MVP as mentioned.

It's a good movie, but upon retrospect, it gets a little worse when it doesn't mention those key points.
Why? The film is not about them.

[MadMan]

Yeah the film was about Beane and Brandt. My thoughts continue to be that the movie is great largely because of the cast, and because it makes even the non-baseball material largely compelling and interesting. Despite the fact that it made a good deal of money, starred Brad Pitt and is generally a crowd pleaser, I was a bit surprised that Moneyball got nominated for Best Picture.

[Watashi]

This movie is about the battle of wits between the old school and the new school. It's about the veteran seasoned scouts against the young inexperienced Harvard grad. It's more about taking risks and sticking with your instincts than relying on history. I really don't think Miller or Sorkin cares if sabremetrics worked or not.

[DavidSeven]

Film probably would have been more interesting if they actually highlighted the fact that they had these ridiculously talented starting pitchers who were presumably scouted by "old school" techniques -- guys who had those Billy Beane "good looks" but didn't immediately fizzle out in the majors. Of course, that stops this from being the easily digestible feel good story that it is and leaves the audience with more to consider. It's probably easier to just say Beane overcame all odds with a band of misfits and outcasts. Go math!

[Ezee E]

This movie is about the battle of wits between the old school and the new school. It's about the veteran seasoned scouts against the young inexperienced Harvard grad. It's more about taking risks and sticking with your instincts than relying on history. I really don't think Miller or Sorkin cares if sabremetrics worked or not.
You shouldn't be ignoring the fact that Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Tejada were already prominent in the league though. If it weren't for them, no way the A's got to the playoffs either.

[Adam]

Agreed with Benny, Ezee, David7, etc - As a baseball fan, this was the overriding thought I had throughout the whole movie. They won 90+ games that year because they had the MVP and three great starting pitchers. Scott Hatteberg had one solid second half for the A's, but they kept him on the team for three more middling years. Chad Bradford was already on the team and was pretty clearly an effective middle reliever

Oakland hasn't been competitive for six years. Some people apparently say that's because teams have adopted Moneyball-like philosophies but really the teams that spend the most (Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Cards, Rangers, Tigers) and the ones who stockpile enough studs through picking low in the draft (Rays, Giants) are the ones who keep winning. This offseason, the A's traded away probably their two best pitchers and their big free agents were Johnny Gomes and Bartolo Colon. And they're in a division with the Rangers and Angels

[Thirdmango]

so I just watched this movie last night and I have to wonder, does this movie work more for baseball fans or for non-baseball fans? I would think it would work for non-baseball fans maybe a bit more because as we can see from you guys who actually did follow it at the time you're saying all this mumbo-jumbo that a non-baseball fan like me couldn't care about.

[Rowland]

I liked the movie a lot, more so than most of the posters around here it seems, and I'm willing to acknowledge that some of that may have to do with my lack of knowledge and interest regarding the actual sport itself. If I knew more about the real life story, all the deviations may have bothered me more if I felt they took away from the story in some important manner.

[Adam]

Not even acknowledging the pitching staff or the middle of the batting order is the filmic equivalent of fawning biopics about the movie careers of Toshiro Mifune or Klaus Kinski that didn't mention Kurosawa or Herzog