Cannes 2011

[ledfloyd]

presented without comment:


Google "Johnnie To" and "chopsocky" and see what happens, why doncha? Chopsocky is a very old, much-denigrated shorthand term for movies that consruct their movies around (or strongly highlight) vigorous & prolonged ballet-action sequences.

Just because To delves into comedy doesn't mean he's not essentially drawing water from the same old well.

Is it not a cliche that almost all (or certainly a vast majority of) commercially-viewed Asian films have this element as a centerpiece or a dominant refrain -- i.e., purple-faced screaming guys fighting each other ad nauseum?

Is not boring that this is so? Is it also not limiting and tedious and even neurotic? Can we be honest and ask if there's something in the genes of Asian directors and producers and audiences that automatically defaults to vigorous ballet-action sequences in their films? Can it not be said that almost the entire continent of Asia is highly enamored if not queer for the chop-socky/martial-arts/whatever-you-want-to-call-it instinct?

In my mind many if not most Asian filmmakers are locked behind bars in an action martiial-arts penitentiary doing life without parole.

[transmogrifier]

presented without comment:

Yep, he's funny and can write. The thing I like about him is that you are always clear about why he likes or doesn't like something, even when he is wrong, unlike say Armond White.

Not sure what the problem is - seems like you guys what bland Slant-esque humorlessness in all reviewers? No?

[Irish]

Not sure what the problem is - seems like you guys what bland Slant-esque humorlessness in all reviewers? No?

The problem is you'd expect a reviewer -- any reviewer -- to have a wider field of knowledge, especially if he's spouting off about foreign cinema.

While I can kind of see his point, it makes me think his only exposure to Asian cinema is the stuff that makes it to the West, the stuff that Miramax buys and Quentin Tarantino "presents."

On top of that, to espouse that Johnny To and his like-minded colleagues represent the whole of Asian cinema today (good god!) is akin to saying Francis Ford Coppolla and Martin Scorcese represent the whole of 70s cinema.

It's simply far too narrow a viewpoint and betrays an entirely superficial knowledge of the subject matter at hand.

[ledfloyd]

not to mention to doesn't really make martial arts movies. most of his films are gangster films. but still to claim that all popular asian cinema is composed of chopsocky films featuring purple faced guys screaming at one another. come the fuck on.

and then there's this:


Idiots. I thought I was using the term "chopsocky" ironically, "in quotes," like Quentin Tarantino uses "nigger" in "Pulp Fiction". No one has used the term "chopsocky" straightfaced since the '80s...God! The scolding mentality! Buncha nip-nips. I know my shit so many times over I've forgotten more than what a lot of you scolds actually know.

*eyeroll*

[Qrazy]

Yep, he's funny and can write. The thing I like about him is that you are always clear about why he likes or doesn't like something, even when he is wrong, unlike say Armond White.

Not sure what the problem is - seems like you guys what bland Slant-esque humorlessness in all reviewers? No?

There's nothing not problematic with that quote from Wells.

1. Balletic action sequences are not a distinctly Asian phenomenon.
2. Commercially viewed Asian films will of course be the action/adventure films because that's what people all over the work like to see. This is again true of Western cinema.
3. There are plenty of non-balletic Asian action films.
4. There's nothing wrong with balletic action, in fact it's awesome.
5. To is awesome.

The latter two points are debatable based on taste, the first three points are not.

[Irish]

and then there's this:

The worst part is that he's actually yelling at people in the comment sections of his own blog. Wth?

Wells used to be an interesting writer and reviewer, at least back when he was doing stuff for Mr Showbiz. Now he just sounds purely crazy. What happened?

[transmogrifier]

There's nothing not problematic with that quote from Wells.

1. Balletic action sequences are not a distinctly Asian phenomenon.
2. Commercially viewed Asian films will of course be the action/adventure films because that's what people all over the work like to see. This is again true of Western cinema.
3. There are plenty of non-balletic Asian action films.
4. There's nothing wrong with balletic action, in fact it's awesome.
5. To is awesome.

The latter two points are debatable based on taste, the first three points are not.

Yeah, he's wrong. And it's clear how and why he's wrong. But it's an interesting trend worth looking at, cultural tropes in mainstream film. I think it's clear that certain countries rely on certain cliches more than others. So while I don't agree with him, I enjoyed reading it. And that's all I ask for in any writing. Wells is a good read. He has interesting ideas. Many of them are wrong, many of them are right. He's spiky and opinionated. He's a good writer.

[transmogrifier]

The worst part is that he's actually yelling at people in the comment sections of his own blog. Wth?

Wells used to be an interesting writer and reviewer, at least back when he was doing stuff for Mr Showbiz. Now he just sounds purely crazy. What happened?

His commentators are by and large a bunch of dicks and probably deserve it :)

[Winston*]

Not a good idea to cite Tarantino's use of "nigger" in Pulp Fiction as defence of anything you do.

[transmogrifier]

I will say this though, having now read the thread from which those comments originated: Wells has chosen a bloody great time to act like a drunken, blinkered donkey.

I'm not defending anything he says in that thread. Embarrassing, really.

He's much better in standalone reviews than he is trying to "interact" with his commentators - mainly because I think he has a healthy streak of arrogance that doesn't reward challenge.

[Boner M]

Lazy copy + paste of some Melancholia tweets from Awards Daily:


"No boos, not that much applause, a very 'meh' reaction to Melancholia in the Lumiere this morning"

"MELANCHOLIA: Beautiful; Haunting; Brilliant."

"enjoyed #melancholia von trier's most mature film to date. Very bleak. Long round of applause. Can't see it winning anything tho."

"Really liked Melancholia. Overstayed it's welcome and wasn't totally focussed, but good performances and great visuals."

"Oh my, Lars Von Trier knows how to turn the apocalypse into a pretty snorefest. 'Melancholia' like walking through glue."

"Lars Von Trier's new film, Melancholia is absolutely stunning."

"Just got out of Lars von Trier's Melancholia at #CANNES_2011 Sure it's preposterous but stunning. Superb."

"Melancholia: Von Trier's grand science friction at world's end, sisters and planets colliding. Visuals heavenly, emotions draining."

"I found what I saw incredibly emotional actually - few films get you damp-eyed before anyone's actually said a word. If you liked the slo-mo bits in Antichrist, you're gonna love this."

"a sort of stunned silence among the people leaving the auditorium at the end. What did Lars do?"

""Melancholia" was superb. Wonderful (lack of) sentiment & yet uplifting. Felt like a collision of Trier's works in a simple idea & it works"

"Christ, I feel really shaken by Lars von Trier's Melancholia. And teary. Still digesting."

"Melancholia" is not a film. It's a mind-blowing experience. Forget about Malick! #cannes2011

"MELANCHOLIA + TREE OF LIFE = High points of Cannes 64: The world is not enough; two talented auteurs turn the cosmos into the canvas."

"Initial thought on Melancholia: Curious, contemplative, spine-tingling, but lacking soul #Cannes"

[ledfloyd]

he has a healthy streak of arrogance that doesn't reward challenge.
the sign of a great critic.

[Pop Trash]

Unless David Lynch sneaks in a movie this year, I'm calling Melancholia and Midnight in Paris as Spinal's top two flicks of 2011.

[Boner M]

Why MiP?

[Spinal]

I wasn't even planning on seeing Midnight in Paris at this point. Should I?

[B-side]

This Melancholia conference is hilarious. Trier is so awesome.

[Boner M]

I wasn't even planning on seeing Midnight in Paris at this point. Should I?
Just be grateful that someone has pegged a film that isn't - for a change - transgressive and/or blatantly allegorical as being up your alley.

[B-side]

Brody plays Dali in Midnight in Paris. With this knowledge, I am now excited for the film.

[Boner M]

This Melancholia conference is hilarious. Trier is so awesome.
Hahahaha: (http://www.filmlinc.com/blog/entry/lars-von-trier-when-i-make-comedies-they-become-very-melancholy)

"For a long time I thought I was a Jew and I was happy to be a Jew," von Trier began, labeling himself a second rate Jew. Then, he said he found out that he was actually of German heritage. "I found out that I was actually a Nazi," he exclaimed, "Which also gave me some pleasure."

Stirring laughter, he kept going. Rambling.

"What can I say, I understand Hitler," Lars von Trier quipped. "I think he did some wrong things. I think I understand the man...I sympathize with him a little bit."

"I don't mean I'm in favor of World War II and I'm not against Jews," von Trier clarified as Dunst, Gainsbourg and the actors seated with him on stage started to look just a bit uncomfortable.

"In fact I'm very much in favor of them," von Trier concluded, "All Jews. Well, Israel is a pain the ass."

As a few members of the press gasped and many others laughed, Von Trier wondered aloud, "How do I get out of this sentence?"

[B-side]

He's the best. Such a troll. Genuinely funny.

[Ezee E]

Maybe you had to be there?

[Qrazy]

He's...Such a troll...

Indeed.

[Raiders]

I wonder what the emotional reaction will be to Panahi's This is Not a Film? I hadn't even heard about it until yesterday. Surprised he was able to get it smuggled out.

[Derek]

I wonder what the emotional reaction will be to Panahi's This is Not a Film? I hadn't even heard about it until yesterday. Surprised he was able to get it smuggled out.

Wow, that's awesome. I figured he'd be done making films for a while.

[Raiders]

Wow, that's awesome. I figured he'd be done making films for a while.

Well, it's not a traditional film. It's a single-day document of his and Iran's struggles as he waits for the appeals court's decision.

[Pop Trash]

I wasn't even planning on seeing Midnight in Paris at this point. Should I?

I thought you were a big Woody Allen fan? Didn't you love Vicky Cristina Barcelona?

[transmogrifier]

the sign of a great critic.

It's not really a sign of anything, really, but thanks for playing.

[Derek]

It's not really a sign of anything, really, but thanks for playing.

It's not a sign of anything, yet it's the main reason why you like him as a critic?

[Bosco B Thug]

Melancholia will be better than Antichrist, now that I'm not instantly seeing Cannes peeps going "Arrrggghhh, Von Trierrrrr!!! I am up in ARMS! Up in arms I tell you!!!"


It's not a sign of anything, yet it's the main reason why you like him as a critic? I was confused at first, too, but I think he's just using laid-back irony to combat ledfloyd's sarcasm regarding the vaguely, or yet-to-be, defined argument of what makes a "great critic."

[transmogrifier]

It's not a sign of anything, yet it's the main reason why you like him as a critic?

Is it? I was explaining why he was not very good at interacting with his commentators, that's all. Read again - the "doesn't reward challenge" part of the sentence (conveniently left off led's quote) makes it obvious I'm describing his personality in terms of interaction with others, NOT writing ability

[transmogrifier]

I was confused at first, too, but I think he's just using laid-back irony to combat ledfloyd's sarcasm regarding the vaguely, or yet-to-be, defined argument of what makes a "great critic."

See above.

Many people good at a craft have a "healthy streak of arrogance" and many people good at a craft do not. No particular correlation.

But having "healthy streak of arrogance" IS likely to produce someone who doesn't interact well with others and bristles when contradicted.

Hence my reply to led, who got the wrong end of the stick and tried to claim it as my original argument.

[Derek]

Is it? I was explaining why he was not very good at interacting with his commentators, that's all. Read again - the "doesn't reward challenge" part of the sentence (conveniently left off led's quote) makes it obvious I'm describing his personality in terms of interaction with others, NOT writing ability

Gotcha, makes sense now.

[transmogrifier]

Gotcha, makes sense now.

Oops, just reading back, led DIDN't leave part of the quote off. I'm guilty of my own accusation. Sorry led!

[Spinal]

I thought you were a big Woody Allen fan? Didn't you love Vicky Cristina Barcelona?


Definitely love Vicky Cristina Barcelona but I wouldn't say that Woody is one of my go-to directors.

[Spinal]

Melancholia will be better than Antichrist, now that I'm not instantly seeing Cannes peeps going "Arrrggghhh, Von Trierrrrr!!! I am up in ARMS! Up in arms I tell you!!!"


I'm kind of disappointed there isn't more of that. And someone calling it his "most mature film"? Blah. Hate that loaded phrase.

Still greatly looking forward to it though.

[ledfloyd]

Oops, just reading back, led DIDN't leave part of the quote off. I'm guilty of my own accusation. Sorry led!
haha, no problem, though i was confused.

i was merely suggesting that if your arrogance is such that you don't deal well with challenge it would imply that you don't have an open mind, which i think is a necessity in criticism. but really, he's just gone off on so many misguided rants like that that i stopped taking him seriously a long time ago.

anyway, cannes right?

[Spinal]

So, I guess it's safe to say that Trier took his film out of the running for the Palme d'Or with his press conference. Ah well.

[Spinal]

yizpWta-5Uw

[Russ]

off-topic, but gotta love the Kids:

(not exactly SFW..)

7Zu0vAMkpag

[Spinal]

OK, I get it. Trier showed poor judgment in making flippant comments that weren't particularly funny. But does the press really have to view this through the most dim-witted, imperceptive lens possible? Headline on Ebert's blog says ... Von Trier: "Yes, I am a Nazi!"

Honestly, fuck you, Rog.

[Boner M]

Someone make a LvT/"FUCK EVERYTHING" jpg.

[Raiders]

I think the point is, there isn't really a context in this setting where that is appropriate or worse, funny. The line speaks for itself.

[Boner M]

I think the point is, there isn't really a context in this setting where that is appropriate or worse, funny. The line speaks for itself.

"How do I get out of this sentence?" made me LOL.

[Irish]

Turns out that soft pedaling jokes about Nazis while in a country actually invaded and occupied by Nazi Germany isn't going to be well received.

Who knew? Crazy.

[Spinal]

This is from the first comment on Ebert's blog. I agree with it:


One particular interesting thing about Lars von Trier, is how woefully different European press and American press reacts to his sarcasms and obvious teases. Apparently European press "gets" him and take his b..s... for what it is (which is as immature jokes), while the American press believes everything he says. How ever, since the man *is* European.understood by his cultural sorroundings, could it then be then that it is the American press and journalists, therby also you who in my opinion manipulated a story untill you got the one presented here, that really don't "get him"? Maybe, I'd say, it is true what they say about Americans and self-irony (and in Lars von Trier's case- self loathing sarcasm). This story is a fart in a bubble bath, not a storm. I just wanted to object to the notion that one can butcher an event and take thing so much out of context that you end up: lying.

[Irish]

Honestly, fuck you, Rog.

Read the by-line. His wife Chaz is the one who posted that headline and that article, not Ebert.

Splitting hairs, maybe, I know.

[Raiders]

I'm not accusing him of being overly offensive (I think most people have come to a point where spouting "Nazi jokes" isn't considered a great offense), rather I am accusing him of being immature, tasteless and not funny and the Nazi jargon was just poorly conceived no matter what the context or intent.

[Spinal]

Read the by-line. His wife Chaz is the one who posted that headline and that article, not Ebert.

Splitting hairs, maybe, I know.

As the primary talent, I hold Roger culpable for the content of his blog.

Much like when Bill Keane goes on hiatus and lets young Billy fill in creating Family Circus.

[Irish]

Much like when Bill Keane goes on hiatus and lets young Billy fill in creating Family Circus.

Thanks. I almost spit soda all over my keyboard reading this. :lol:

[Spinal]

I'm not accusing him of being overly offensive (I think most people have come to a point where spouting "Nazi jokes" isn't considered a great offense), rather I am accusing him of being immature, tasteless and not funny and the Nazi jargon was just poorly conceived no matter what the context or intent.

I don't disagree.

I also don't think it's a news story, except for the fact that it allows people to easily dismiss a filmmaker that takes them to uncomfortable places through his work.

[Irish]

I also don't think it's a news story, except for the fact that it allows people to easily dismiss a filmmaker that takes them to uncomfortable places through his work.

It's definitely a news story. Maybe not frontpage news, but definitely a story.

Maybe it would have been self-important and dramatic, but I think the cast on stage with him should have stood up and walked out as soon as he started spewing this shit.

[happ]

It certainly wasn't funny at all, and he should have known better. Some things just shouldn't be joked about. "I sympathize with Hitler a little bit?" My God, why would he say such a thing?

I noticed the actresses were very uncomfortable. I wonder if they'll work with him again.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't disagree.

I also don't think it's a news story, except for the fact that it allows people to easily dismiss a filmmaker that takes them to uncomfortable places through his work.

In fairness this is completely von Trier's fault.

[Spinal]

It certainly wasn't funny at all, and he should have known better. Some things just shouldn't be joked about. "I sympathize with Hitler a little bit?" My God, why would he say such a thing?

It's worth noting that this was almost identical to the time when the press accussed him of misogyny with Manderlay (or was it Dogville?) and he mockingly agreed with them, saying he liked to make women suffer or something like that.

[NickGlass]

No one here was amused by the Susanna Bier joke?

[Spinal]

No one here was amused by the Susanna Bier joke?

It's hilarious.

[happ]

It's worth noting that this was almost identical to the time when the press accussed him of misogyny with Manderlay (or was it Dogville?) and he mockingly agreed with them, saying he liked to make women suffer or something like that.
Yeah, I can understand what he was doing, and frankly, I don't care that he said those things. It has no bearing on his work. But still, I think it was in very poor taste, and as you yourself have noted, it's just another excuse to disregard his films. He should have stopped at the mention of his "Nazi ancestry", but just kept digging himself in deeper by mentioning his "understanding" of Hitler.

I'll admit that it reads worse than it actually was. I saw part of the press conference on YouTube, and it's not quite as bad as how it is being portrayed in written reports.

[Bosco B Thug]

Ugh.

I haven't watched the press conference, but from reading the account in the article Boner posted, I'm completely on Von Trier's side. I'm not glad he went there and that it was said, but to hell with the dullard-viewed disseminating press making it out as worse than it is. Perhaps I should watch it, though, first (and later, unfortunately).

[Spinal]

Just watched the video. This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. Trier clearly knows he's not expressing himself clearly and needs to wiggle away from it. He knows that the larger point he wants to make is going to be lost because people are uncomfortable with the subject matter. People are laughing along with him. Like George Carlin said, it's not the content, it's where you place the emphasis of the joke. This is clearly self-depricating humor acknowledging that because of his reputation, some people are willing to believe anything about him.

LayW8aq4GLw

[Derek]

How did we not see this coming?

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j94/DSmith724/i1411.jpg

[B-side]

Just watched the video. This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. Trier clearly knows he's not expressing himself clearly and needs to wiggle away from it. He knows that the larger point he wants to make is going to be lost because people are uncomfortable with the subject matter. People are laughing along with him. Like George Carlin said, it's not the content, it's where you place the emphasis of the joke. This is clearly self-depricating humor acknowledging that because of his reputation, some people are willing to believe anything about him.

Yup. It's abundantly clear Trier kinda gave up on the press a while ago after they kept insisting he hated women and all that nonsense. I don't think he was being tasteless or immature. He's mocking the press' superficiality and willingness to demonize anyone and everyone for the sake of a story.

[Boner M]

http://imageshack.us/m/812/4771/fever.png

[Spinal]

Watched the press conference in its entirety. Good stuff. Love the very end where you can hear the mic picking up Dunst saying, "Oh Lars, that was intense."

[Qrazy]

Yup. It's abundantly clear Trier kinda gave up on the press a while ago after they kept insisting he hated women and all that nonsense. I don't think he was being tasteless or immature. He's mocking the press' superficiality and willingness to demonize anyone and everyone for the sake of a story.

So he made the remark in order to get bad press in order to mock the press? No.

He was making a bad joke, but who cares, this issue is stupid. Can we move on now?

[Irish]

Just watched the video. This whole thing is fucking ridiculous. Trier clearly knows he's not expressing himself clearly and needs to wiggle away from it. He knows that the larger point he wants to make is going to be lost because people are uncomfortable with the subject matter. People are laughing along with him.

Wait, what? What was the larger point he was trying to make?

He sounds like a blundering idiot, and he knows how badly he's screwing up. I don't think people were laughing along with him (Dunst seemed to guffaw out of embarrassment to me, and then tried to stop him from talking almost immediately).

Also interesting is that none of the articles picked up on the "Speer I liked. Albert Speer. Was very talented..." and so on. That in itself was pretty gross, but the whole "[Hitler] ... did some bad things" was waaaay over the top.

Why are you defending this dude? He doesn't deserve it.

(Listen, I like Spike Lee, but whenever he pops out a racist or bigoted remark, I don't try and defend him. I think, "Jesus, what an ahole.")

[Spinal]

Wait, what? What was the larger point he was trying to make?

That for most of his life, he thought that he was a Jew. This was a part of his identity. The oppressed. The victim.

Later, he found out that he had German ancestry. This shifted how he perceived himself. He was descended from the oppressor. The villian.

I've heard Trier talk about this before, so I know the story and how it was a life-changing event for him. They asked him about his use of music. How it tied in with his German roots. And he was explaining (poorly) that it was a part of who he is and he has accepted that. Again, I'm using other interviews to fill in the blanks because I've heard him talk on this topic before.




Why are you defending this dude? He doesn't deserve it.


Oh, he absolutely does. He is honest in grappling with complex feelings. He's engaging and funny and an irreplaceable artistic talent. The response to this press conference has been childish.

[Bosco B Thug]

LayW8aq4GLw Aaaand it's even less bad than it sounded.

I don't even need to try to defend what he said (and one could) or mention how he qualifies everything he says, because of how clearly he doesn't want to be saying any of it.


Watched the press conference in its entirety. Good stuff. Love the very end where you can hear the mic picking up Dunst saying, "Oh Lars, that was intense." Cute. I did enjoy the Dunst poise in that two-minute excerpt.

[Ezee E]

Yikes. It was an attempt to be funny, and he tried to get out of it, but all he did was make it worse. Which is why von Trier doesn't do comedies...

Dunst should've just interrupted like she wanted to. Would've saved everything.

[Irish]

Jew. [...] The oppressed. The victim.
German [...] the oppressor. The villian.

As someone who is frequently accused of enormous simplifications and looking at things in a too black-and-white manner ... this ... just wow, really?


I've heard Trier talk about this before, so I know the story and how it was a life-changing event for him. They asked him about his use of music. How it tied in with his German roots. And he was explaining (poorly) that it was a part of who he is and he has accepted that. Again, I'm using other interviews to fill in the blanks because I've heard him talk on this topic before.

I understand what you're saying on the context of his background. But how does that excuse his absolute buffoonery or the massively insensitive, ignorant things that he said?


Oh, he absolutely does. He is honest in grappling with complex feelings. He's engaging and funny and an irreplaceable artistic talent. The response to this press conference has been childish.

Fuck him. Every adult grapples with complex feelings. But they sure don't blather on about Nazism and sympathy for Hitler in public settings.

It's a massive gaffe, and while I don't thing the guy should be ridden out of town for this or anything ... I don't think it's right to make excuses for the guy or downplay the nature and ugliness of what he actually said.

[transmogrifier]

Neither the "poor Lars, victim of the press" and "damn Lars, purveyor of evil" readings carry much water. It is merely another case of a director courting controversy for extra publicity. Von Trier and the press feed off each other, need each other.

[Winston*]

I will never see another Lars Von Trier movie.

[Winston*]

Which is why von Trier doesn't do comedies...

He did the Boss of it All, which shows he shouldn't do comedies.

[baby doll]

I dunno, I thought his whole Nazi rant was pretty hilarious ("I'm not against Jews. No, not even Susanne Bier"). But then, I seem to be one of the few people around here who thought Dogville was borderline hilarious.

[baby doll]

P.S., I'd much rather hang out with Trier than Terrence Malick.

[Boner M]

What the fuck (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/19/lars-von-trier-persona-non-grata-banned-canes_n_863996.html). :eek:

[B-side]

Jesus. Shouldn't surprise me considering they have a history of being prudish and reactionary.

[Philosophe_rouge]

Quebec does not have Opinions, but only sentiments.
Wilfrid Laurier

He was confused and meant french people. He predicted this Cannes incident. I always thought it was John A. who had the insight into the future via his dead pets, but Sir Wilfred Laurier has been the underdog all along.

[Raiders]

It's amazing the extremes we seem to go. Either completely condemn and remove ourselves like the festival or distributors, or like many here rush to the defense of what seems to me nothing more than a poorly conceived joke that he sadly only realized in the middle wasn't working. It doesn't deserve condemnation, but it also doesn't deserve intelligent people trying to wriggle alterior motives and humor from something so ill-designed.

[Boner M]

Guess I'll be the first to boo this news.

[Spinal]

Oh, for fuck's sake.

[number8]

"I think one of the reasons is that the French themselves treated the Jews badly during the second world war. Therefore it is a touchy subject for them. I highly respect the Cannes festival, but I also understand that they are very angry with me right now."

Dude has BAAAAALLLLS.

[NickGlass]

Guess I'll be the first to boo this news.

I let out a "Huh? Idiots. This is absurd." upon reading, but didn't post my "boo."

I will say, Lars has always been shy, impish, self-deprecating, and goddamn sarcastic in all press interviews, so I'm surprised by the absolutely shocked reaction. He had the New York film critics in stitches during the post-AntiChrist Skype session.

[number8]

Maybe the barring has less to do with the Nazi comment and more to do with him making nasty comments about Susanne Bier.

[NickGlass]

Maybe the barring has less to do with the Nazi comment and more to do with him making nasty comments about Susanne Bier.

But that was the funniest part! Not mocking her background, but mocking her mark on Danish cinema.

I mean, it's a total asshole comment to publicly make, but it should be very apparent to anyone who knows cinema (you know, people at Cannes) that they have very different sensibilities.

[NickGlass]

Also, hasn't Mel Gibson been strutting up and down the red carpet like a martyr over the past few days?

[Qrazy]

Also, hasn't Mel Gibson been strutting up and down the red carpet like a martyr over the past few days?

Well the good news is that he can now get Mel Gibson to distribute the film.

[Derek]

But that was the funniest part! Not mocking her background, but mocking her mark on Danish cinema.

I mean, it's a total asshole comment to publicly make, but it should be very apparent to anyone who knows cinema (you know, people at Cannes) that they have very different sensibilities.

Yeah, you'd think the negative comments about Bier would almost outweigh the positive ones about Hitler.

[Bosco B Thug]

In light of recent events, I'd just like to recall the excellence of Spinal's previous post:


Oh, he absolutely does. He is honest in grappling with complex feelings... The response to this press conference has been childish.

He's in a live press conference, he's been baited with a question, and he's Lars Von Trier, an outspoken thinking man. He's tempered his statements after the fact and during the very contested incident. There's 5+ sympathy points right there towards him over the BS at Cannes.

Yes, he's unfortunately all too willing to "go there" and court controversy, and this is all a simple case of poor speaking and persona in the limelight - both which I'd readily sympathize with, even before recognizing that everything he said is him grappling/fumbling with complexity, not making "jokes" by pretending he harbors neo-Nazi sentiments, which, I repeat, is absolutely not what he's doing. What are people even going on about? Never once is he attempting to stretch out an implication of him thinking Nazism as good.

He absolutely is trying to make "greater points" (from his personal philosophical contemplations about Hitler to a jab at Israel, and now France), if not particularly notably, and if failing to recognize he's not in a forum in which to tease nuance out (which he actually does seem to recognize, and is one reason he gets so carried away).

I take greater offense to his Suzanne Bier smack, which is definitely kind of rude...

[Ezee E]

The snippet review I read of The Skin I Live In makes me very excited. An Almodovar picture shot in the style of Hitchcock? Awesome.

[Ivan Drago]

The snippet review I read of The Skin I Live In makes me very excited. An Almodovar picture shot in the style of Hitchcock? Awesome.

Watching the trailer again, I can definitely see the Hitchcock style. I'm following this film closely.

[Derek]

Not exactly the first time Almodovar's gone the Hitchcock route. Bad Education and Live Flesh off the top of my head...

[Qrazy]

He absolutely is trying to make "greater points" (from his personal philosophical contemplations about Hitler to a jab at Israel, and now France), if not particularly notably, and if failing to recognize he's not in a forum in which to tease nuance out (which he actually does seem to recognize, and is one reason he gets so carried away).

I take greater offense to his Suzanne Bier smack, which is definitely kind of rude...

No, he's really not.

His sympathizing with Hitler was a joke.
His Suzanne Bier comment was a joke.
His comments about Israel are also jokes.
They are all bad jokes.

Does he deserve to be kicked out of Cannes? No. But he brought it on himself so whatever. No one forced him to say those things.

[number8]

I just took it as him really disliking journalists and wanted to fuck with them because of the goddamn inane questions he got the last time he was at Cannes.

He went trolling before another idiot reporter decided to ask him to explain himself.

[Robby P]

I'm all for trolling the French, personally.

[origami_mustache]

I don't think sympathizing with Hitler is necessarily a joke. It's playful, but there is some truth to it, as I can see how you can sympathize with Hitler as a human being to some extent. I don't think he really knew where he was going with what he was saying and the awkward fumbling probably made things worse, but honestly people need to stop being over sensitive babies about everything especially when it comes to comedy. I see comedians make satirical jokes every week about 911, Hitler, outrageous racist statements, etc. and it's hilarious. Lars von Trier says fuck the tiptoeing around controversy bullshit and I'm completely on board with it. I'm sure he's doing it for attention and to be provocative and haters are gonna hate, but I love it.

[eternity]

Come on, you know Lars had to do something. Melancholia wasn't controversal, and since he's always eager and willing to make a headline, he proceeded to do so.

I wouldn't be surprised if his statements and Cannes' response are just a stunt.

[Dukefrukem]

In his defense, Hitler IS one of the most influential people of all time. Although he wasn't using that in context.

[eternity]

So...I assume Melancholia is not winning the Palme D'Or.

Or it's chances are better than ever. Cannes does love to make headlines, and...that would.

[Pop Trash]

This LVT news made the homepage of CNN and MSNBC. So is it just Lars the person banned from Cannes or his movies as well? Does this ipso facto take out Melancholia from contention for the Palme?

[Watashi]

D'Angelo loved Drive.

[Qrazy]

I just took it as him really disliking journalists and wanted to fuck with them because of the goddamn inane questions he got the last time he was at Cannes.

He went trolling before another idiot reporter decided to ask him to explain himself.

What happens to trolls on websites? They get banned.

[Qrazy]

I don't think sympathizing with Hitler is necessarily a joke. It's playful, but there is some truth to it, as I can see how you can sympathize with Hitler as a human being to some extent.

Well when you put it that way I guess I do sympathize with Idi Amin Dada somewhat. It has to be hard having that many children.

NO. BAD. NOT FUNNY.

[Derek]

What happens to trolls on websites? They get banned.

Not true. We still allow you to hang around, Qrazy. ;)

[Irish]

Jesus. Shouldn't surprise me considering they have a history of being prudish and reactionary.

Cannes is in southeastern France, former home of the Vichy government. Of course they're going to react strongly to this.

[Stay Puft]

When is the new Joachim Trier screening? I'm looking forward to that one.

[eternity]

D'Angelo loved Drive.
Guy Lodge called it the best film in competition, for what that's worth. Jeff Wells also liked it, again, for what that's worth.

[Bosco B Thug]

Does he deserve to be kicked out of Cannes? No. But he brought it on himself so whatever. No one forced him to say those things. And I'm saying he's brought nothing on himself.


I don't think sympathizing with Hitler is necessarily a joke. It's playful, but there is some truth to it, as I can see how you can sympathize with Hitler as a human being to some extent. I don't think he really knew where he was going with what he was saying and the awkward fumbling probably made things worse, but honestly people need to stop being over sensitive babies about everything especially when it comes to comedy. I see comedians make satirical jokes every week about 911, Hitler, outrageous racist statements, etc. and it's hilarious. Lars von Trier says fuck the tiptoeing around controversy bullshit and I'm completely on board with it. I'm sure he's doing it for attention and to be provocative and haters are gonna hate, but I love it. Agreed on all counts.

The bolded, though, reminds me that people are really choosing to frame this wrong. What everyone is actually doing is ganging up on someone for not perfectly expressing himself in a live talk, and literalizing his words as if it was a premeditated statement. This was him speaking as himself, spontaneously, rebelliously, clumsily, humanistically, trying to get at subversive and not-entirely-empty ideas.


Well when you put it that way I guess I do sympathize with Idi Amin Dada somewhat. It has to be hard having that many children.

NO. BAD. NOT FUNNY. Good one! The multifariousness of possible humanist argument = SHUT DOWN.

[Qrazy]

Not true. We still allow you to hang around, Qrazy. ;)

http://eirnin.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/trol-internet.jpg

[number8]

Wow. I'm reading all these news articles about LVT, and I can't believe how many of them think the porn project with Dunst is real.

None of them bothered to watch the press conference first before running this shit?

Fucking hell, journalism.

[NickGlass]

Wow. I'm reading all these news articles about LVT, and I can't believe how many of them think the porn project with Dunst is real.

None of them bothered to watch the press conference first before running this shit?

Fucking hell, journalism.

Indeed. If nothing, this frenzy is such an obvious look into the absurdity of sensationalistic and misunderstood literary reportage. Werner Herzog should make a documentary on the moment.

[Irish]

Wow. I'm reading all these news articles about LVT, and I can't believe how many of them think the porn project with Dunst is real

Maybe it's just wishful thinking on everyone's part? I myself have no trouble picturing this marquee:

Chloe Sevigny and Kirsten Dunst in Lars Von Trier's Logjammin'.

[Spinal]

So, I figured today that I should probably avoid reading this thread, because, ya know, it's a sunny day and all and I want to enjoy it.

But I just wanted to give number8 props for his thoughtful, responsible reaction on justpressplay. Good work, man.

[Boner M]

http://fourfour.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b8c369e201538e945797 970b-800wi

[Irish]

TMZ: Cannes Director -- Nazi Sharpest Tool in the Shed

:lol:

[Rowland]

Yeah. I'm just excited for Melancholia.

Hey, for those of you who don't follow Mike D'Angelo's twitter, he loved Refn's Drive, calling it genre bliss and giving it the second highest score of anything he's seen at Cannes, and this is after disliking every Refn film he's seen so far. Albert Brooks is also apparently badass in a supporting role.

[Boner M]

Yeah I can't wait for Drive. Refn a gun-for-hire is something I can get behind.

[Barty]

This whole ridiculous controversy has made me a fan of Trier.

[Ezee E]

Will this help or hurt Melancholia more though?

Gonna avoid all reviews on Drive. Seeing that clip a few weeks ago was all I needed.

[baby doll]

Albert Brooks is also apparently badass in a supporting role.I just like this sentence.

[baby doll]

As for Trier being banned, the question is: Does he really need Cannes anymore? Putting aside all the other major festivals from which he presumably hasn't been banned (Berlin, New York, Toronto, Venice), he makes films in English with American stars, so it's not going to be hard for him to get his movies to get distributed even without the Cannes seal of approval.

[Ezee E]

As for Trier being banned, the question is: Does he really need Cannes anymore? Putting aside all the other major festivals from which he presumably hasn't been banned (Berlin, New York, Toronto, Venice), he makes films in English with American stars, so it's not going to be hard for him to get his movies to get distributed even without the Cannes seal of approval.
He doesn't fly though, so he wouldn't get any press, unless he does choose Venice or Berlin.

[baby doll]

He doesn't fly though, so he wouldn't get any press, unless he does choose Venice or Berlin.I remember reading that when Antichrist was shown at the New York Film Festival, he did his press conference via Skype.

[origami_mustache]

As much as I'd like to think he loves all the attention of being banned, it seems he actually really wanted to win The Palme d'Or at some point as frivolous as it may be.

[baby doll]

As much as I'd like to think he loves all the attention of being banned, it seems he actually really wanted to win The Palme d'Or at some point as frivolous as it may be.He won it eleven years ago. But then, he is an attention whore.

[baby doll]

By the way, does anybody know how actual neo-Nazis are reporting this controversy?

[number8]

By the way, does anybody know how actual neo-Nazis are reporting this controversy?

Yeah, I looked into a Stormfront thread. They're rallying behind his "If Hitler made a movie, Cannes should recognize it" comment.

[NickGlass]

I remember reading that when Antichrist was shown at the New York Film Festival, he did his press conference via Skype.

Yeah, I was there. I mentioned it on the previous page in this thread; he was hilariously self-deprecating.

[Stay Puft]

I remember reading that when Antichrist was shown at the New York Film Festival, he did his press conference via Skype.

He also did a regular old Q&A after the film's screening in Toronto, via Skype.

[Spinal]

As someone who is frequently accused of enormous simplifications and looking at things in a too black-and-white manner ... this ... just wow, really?


Just wanted to quickly address this. Obviously, if you look at it from a historical perspective, it's much more complex. I was looking at it from an individual's perspective. Originally, he felt proud to belong to one group. Only to discover that he really belonged to another. That's all I was saying.

[Spinal]

He did the Boss of it All, which shows he shouldn't do comedies.

Yeah, this is true.

[Spinal]

He absolutely is trying to make "greater points" (from his personal philosophical contemplations about Hitler to a jab at Israel, and now France), if not particularly notably, and if failing to recognize he's not in a forum in which to tease nuance out (which he actually does seem to recognize, and is one reason he gets so carried away).

I take greater offense to his Suzanne Bier smack, which is definitely kind of rude...

I thought the Bier crack was funny, but the Israel comment was the pinnacle. To have the audacity to make that joke in that situation ... man.

[Spinal]

I don't think sympathizing with Hitler is necessarily a joke. It's playful, but there is some truth to it, as I can see how you can sympathize with Hitler as a human being to some extent.

I thought that he was making reference to understanding what it was like to be universally reviled and have everyone coming after you (which is where I thought he was going with the bunker comment). But, I'm just speculating obviously.

[number8]

I admit I laughed the hardest at his audacity of bringing it back to Nazis after the panel already moved on to another question, about making movies on a grand scale:

"Yeah, that's we Nazis [do]. We have a tendency to do things on a greater scale."

I was in stitches.

[origami_mustache]

He won it eleven years ago. But then, he is an attention whore.

Wow, I didn't realize Dancer In the Dark won. He has at least 5 films more deserving than that one. Well I think he wanted to win 3 times :P.

[Izzy Black]

As for Trier being banned, the question is: Does he really need Cannes anymore? Putting aside all the other major festivals from which he presumably hasn't been banned (Berlin, New York, Toronto, Venice), he makes films in English with American stars, so it's not going to be hard for him to get his movies to get distributed even without the Cannes seal of approval.

I don't think Trier needs Cannes, but surely Cannes' publicity helps Trier and he would rather have it than not. Likewise, I think Cannes would rather have Trier around than not. They have a mutually beneficial relationship, and that's why I think Trier has apologized and accepted his banishment gracefully, and that Cannes' 'persona non grata' ban or whatever has the appearance of a special suspension rather than a permanent ban.

[Russ]

It just seems ironic (and more than a little hyprocritical) that Gibson has been getting ovations while LvT was packing his bags.

I've always like Lars. I think I like him even more now.

[balmakboor]

I keep checking in hoping the discussion has left Von Trier behind and moved on to really interesting topics like The Skin I Live In.

[Ezee E]

I keep checking in hoping the discussion has left Von Trier behind and moved on to really interesting topics like The Skin I Live In.
Hmm... Well, lets start off with predictions!

Palme D'or -- The Artist
Grand Prix -- Drive
Jury Prize -- The Kid With the Bike

Director -- Nicolas Winding Refn
Actor -- Sean Penn (This Must Be the Place)
Actress -- Tilda Swinton
Screenwriter -- Michael
Cinematography -- Tree of Life

[Irish]

It just seems ironic (and more than a little hyprocritical) that Gibson has been getting ovations while LvT was packing his bags.

Gibson's comments were made in private, close to home in the US. It's not as if he was standing on the red carpet of the Kodak Theater calling Mary Hart "sugartits" and telling Elvis Mitchell that the Jews control the media.

The festival isn't trying to act like some kind of universal moral arbiter (I mean, c'mon, this is France after all).

Politically, though, my guess is they have to be seen as doing something. To ignore Von Trier or the public outrage around his comments could be interpreted as them condoning them in some way.


I think I like him even more now.

I never had much an opinion on him one way or the other. Now I think he's just an immature asshole.

Sorta the same reaction I had when Prince Harry showed up at a costume party wearing a Nazi uniform.

[Boner M]

Predix:

Palme D'or - Le Havre
Grand Prix - The Artist
Jury Prize - Polisse
Director - Malick
Actor - The (titular) Kid With the Bike
Actress - Tilda Swinton
Screenwriter - Drive
Cinematography - Tree of Life

Un Certain Regard - Miss Bala
Camera D'or - Snowtown

[baby doll]

I'm guessing that Footnote will win the Palme d'or. Don't ask me why.

[Stay Puft]

A collection of reactions to the new Joachim Trier:
http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/3327

Some mixed or merely lukewarm reactions there but we'll see, Reprise was one of my favorites of its respective year so he's got my attention for a couple movies regardless.

[Stay Puft]

Uh... so Kim Ki-duk's Arirang won the top prize in UCR, granted sharing the prize with Dresen's Stopped on Track. Still. Huh. Were there any positive reviews out there for Kim's film? I could find nothing but critical thrashings.

[baby doll]

Uh... so Kim Ki-duk's Arirang won the top prize in UCR, granted sharing the prize with Dresen's Stopped on Track. Still. Huh. Were there any positive reviews out there for Kim's film? I could find nothing but critical thrashings.Wow, that's a pretty major upset. Based on the reviews, I figured Miss Bala had this one in the bag. Incidentally, I would've thought We Have a Pope a safe bet for the Ecumenical Jury Prize.

[Boner M]

Arirang's win is a little more understandable considering that the UCR jury is headed by Kusturica, another filmmaker whose glory days are behind him.

[ledfloyd]

what time do they announce the awards?

[B-side]

Palme d’Or: “The Tree of Life”
Grand Prix: (tie) “The Kid With a Bike” and “Once Upon a Time in Anatolia”
Best Actor: Jean Dujardin, “The Artist”
Best Director: Nicolas Winding Refn, “Drive”
Best Actress: Kirsten Dunst, “Melancholia”
Best Screenplay: “Footnote,” Joseph Cedar
Prix du Jury: “Polisse,” Maïwenn

Camera d’Or: “Las Acacias”
Palme d’Or (Short Film): “Cross Country”

[Watashi]

So those people were saying "Boo-urns" after all.

[eternity]

Could there be a time where the Brothers Dardenne didn't win anything? Ever? No? Okay.

[Henry Gale]

Wow, despite the fact that they were high profile movies in the competition, I still did not expect those awards to go to Tree of Life and Dunst. I'm happy that at least Malick's film comes out as soon as it does, but Melancholia has definitely gone from "strong curiousity" after the trailer to "oh wow, I guess this has a good chance of being great" now.

Also, earlier this year, I would have never believed a movie with this promotional poster would have gone on to become the Best Director winner at Cannes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AgMXidZ-TxQ/TcTCdrqTpSI/AAAAAAAAAzI/EvUobuOxcoE/s1600/drive+ryan.jpg

[Ezee E]

Wow, despite the fact that they were high profile movies in the competition, I still did not expect those awards to go to Tree of Life and Dunst. I'm happy that at least Malick's film comes out as soon as it does, but Melancholia has definitely gone from "strong curiousity" after the trailer to "oh wow, I guess this has a good chance of being great" now.

Also, earlier this year, I would have never believed a movie with this promotional poster would have gone on to become the Best Director winner at Cannes:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-AgMXidZ-TxQ/TcTCdrqTpSI/AAAAAAAAAzI/EvUobuOxcoE/s1600/drive+ryan.jpg
Seeing the name "Nicolas Winding Refn" made me believe!

[eternity]

Seeing 'Winding' in the middle of someone's name just makes me laugh. I'll get passed it eventually.

[Boner M]

Haha, this interview (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2011/may/22/cannes-film-festival-ryan-gosling) with Refn and Gosling is awesome.

[eternity]

Haha, this interview (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2011/may/22/cannes-film-festival-ryan-gosling) with Refn and Gosling is awesome.Pretty cool that Refn made a film called 'Drive' and doesn't even drive.

[Boner M]

Pretty cool that Refn made a film called 'Drive' and doesn't even drive.
...and that he failed his driving test 12 times in his youth.

[baby doll]

The ten movies I'm most looking forward to are probably:

Chatrak (Vimukthi Jayasundara)
The Day He Arrives (Hong Sang-soo)
Le Havre (Aki Kaurismäki)
Hors Satan (Bruno Dumont)
Impardonnables (André Téchiné)
Melancholia (Lars von Trier)
Miss Bala (Gerardo Naranjo)
Once Upon a Time in Anatolia (Nuri Bilge Ceylan)
This Is Not a Film (Mojtaba Mirtahasebi / Jafar Panahi)
We Need to Talk About Kevin (Lynne Ramsay)

[Boner M]

The Refn, Ceylan & Naranjo are probably my top 3 most anticipated (Malick aside). Hope Melbourne Fest snags most of the titles.

[Morris Schæffer]

You would expect Malick to snag best helmer prize as well given how he has crafted a style all his own. I've no idea how Drive excels in the directing area, but I've also never seen a Refn movie.

[Boner M]

You would expect Malick to snag best helmer prize as well given how he has crafted a style all his own. I've no idea how Drive excels in the directing area, but I've also never seen a Refn movie.
I watched the press conference w/ De Niro and his jury and he said that they weren't going to award the same film twice.

[Ezee E]

I watched the press conference w/ De Niro and his jury and he said that they weren't going to award the same film twice.
Most Cannes juries seem to have this way of thinking, unless there's a standout performance in what is clearly the best movie.

Which I can't even think of an instance off the top of my head.

[Raiders]

Most Cannes juries seem to have this way of thinking, unless there's a standout performance in what is clearly the best movie.

Which I can't even think of an instance off the top of my head.

Last Palme d'Or winner which received another award was Elephant which got Best Director as well.

[ledfloyd]

i thought they weren't allowed to give one movie two awards.

[Sxottlan]

After reading the reactions from Cannes this year, I'm really looking forward to Drive and I'm at least curious about The Artist and Melancholia.

[Boner M]

The Artist is the only buzzed title that I can't work up any enthusiasm for.

[baby doll]

The Artist is the only buzzed title that I can't work up any enthusiasm for.Yeah, I can't either--maybe because it sounds a lot like last year's The Illusionist, and we all know how that worked out.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I can't either--maybe because it sounds a lot like last year's The Illusionist, and we all know how that worked out.
Match Cut Best Animated Film winner?

[Watashi]

Yeah, I can't either--maybe because it sounds a lot like last year's The Illusionist, and we all know how that worked out.
Yeah, it's fucking awesome.

Weird movie to single out.

[Robby P]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/charlielyne/2nd/abuse.jpg

Looks like Snowtown wins.

[B-side]

I'm officially excited for Snowtown now.

[Ezee E]

How'd The Artist sneak through the cracks and get in??

[Ivan Drago]

How'd The Artist sneak through the cracks and get in??

And how is Melancholia not on the abuse checklist??

[Spinal]

And how is Melancholia not on the abuse checklist??

I'm assuming the abuse had to occur within the film and not at the press conference.