I just blind bought The Wayward Cloud

[MacGuffin]

I hope it's good!

[Kurosawa Fan]

Great thread.

[MacGuffin]

Great thread.

That was fast.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That was fast.

In the future, please keep stuff like this in the film discussion thread. It isn't necessary to create a new thread for a simple statement like this.

[MacGuffin]

In the future, please keep stuff like this in the film discussion thread. It isn't necessary to create a new thread for a simple statement like this.

Sure. I simply thought it was inevitable that it would spark discuss regarding the film, as I'm curious to see what people think about it.

[balmakboor]

I haven't seen it yet. You can still rescue the thread though by watching it and leaving some long and compelling thoughts here.

I loved I Don't Want to Sleep Alone except for the ending which just didn't quite work.

[MacGuffin]

I haven't seen it yet. You can still rescue the thread though by watching it and leaving some long and compelling thoughts here.

Yeah, I was going to plan on doing that, but whatever.


I loved I Don't Want to Sleep Alone except for the ending which just didn't quite work.

I hated the last shot in the film, and while everything else up to that was pretty, I don't see what it was supposed add up to.

[balmakboor]

I hated the last shot in the film, and while everything else up to that was pretty, I don't see what it was supposed add up to.

What appealed to me was its sense of humor. There was something very comical about them carrying that mattress all over town. (I think it was intentional, but then again does it matter? I'll take my humor any way I can get it and it's especially tasty if it comes in a place where I wasn't expecting it.) But there was just something too schematic and visually disappointing about that last shot.

[Melville]

What appealed to me was its sense of humor. There was something very comical about them carrying that mattress all over town. (I think it was intentional, but then again does it matter? I'll take my humor any way I can get it and it's especially tasty if it comes in a place where I wasn't expecting it.) But there was just something too schematic and visually disappointing about that last shot.
That last shot (and much of the film) went right over my head. I had no idea what it was trying to accomplish.

The Wayward Cloud, on the other hand, is solid, understandable gold, and its final shot is perfect.

[MacGuffin]

That last shot (and much of the film) went right over my head. I had no idea what it was trying to accomplish.

So, we're on the same page with this one.


The Wayward Cloud, on the other hand, is solid, understandable gold, and its final shot is perfect.

That's good to hear.

[Rowland]

I thought I Don't Want to Sleep Alone was at its best in the last 15 minutes. I took the last shot to represent their transient euphoria, drifting along together and at peace, away from the material world.

Still, it's my least favorite Ming-Liang movie.

[Raiders]

This thread is pure plagiarism of Qrazy. I declare nobody else is allowed to make random, personal "discuss" threads but he.

[chrisnu]

It is good. I don't think it's a masterpiece, but it goes places that not many films go.

[Boner M]

That last shot (and much of the film) went right over my head. I had no idea what it was trying to accomplish.
I thought it was a beautiful if elusive way of showing the connections made by the three main characters, however tenuous/unconscious they are (EDIT: What Rowland said, basically). Doesn't have to have meaning-with-a-capital-M to have resonance - that's one of Tsai's strengths, I feel.

[DSNT]

I hope it's good!
Boy Golly Gee, me too!

[Melville]

I thought it was a beautiful if elusive way of showing the connections made by the three main characters, however tenuous/unconscious they are (EDIT: What Rowland said, basically). Doesn't have to have meaning-with-a-capital-M to have resonance - that's one of Tsai's strengths, I feel.
Yeah, that's why I was careful to say "what it was trying to accomplish" rather than "what it meant". What you and Rowland say makes sense, but I definitely wasn't feeling it when I saw the movie; I was just kind of bored and bewildered. I had the same reaction to the end (actually, to most of the second half) of Syndromes and a Century, which I think you also liked.

Edit: I probably would have got more out of it if I had been more familiar with Tsai's earlier films when I saw it. At that point I had seen only The Wayward Cloud, which didn't at all prepare me for the muted style of I Don't Want to Sleep Alone.

[Rowland]

I'd say that Tsai's usual style lies between The Wayward Cloud and I Don't Want to Sleep Alone. They both represent opposite extremes of his filmmaking approach.

[Melville]

I'd say that Tsai's usual style lies between The Wayward Cloud and I Don't Want to Sleep Alone. They both represent opposite extremes of his filmmaking approach.
Here's what I've seen from him:

The Wayward Cloud – 9
The Hole – 8
The River – 8
I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone – 5
Rebels of the Neon God – 4

Given these ratings, what should I seek out next? I've wanted to see What Time is it There? and Goodbye, Dragon Inn for a while, but I'm afraid they might lean too far toward the I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone style.

[Rowland]

Here's what I've seen from him:

The Wayward Cloud – 9
The Hole – 8
The River – 8
I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone – 5
Rebels of the Neon God – 4

Given these ratings, what should I seek out next? I've wanted to see What Time is it There? and Goodbye, Dragon Inn for a while, but I'm afraid they might lean too far toward the I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone style.What Time Is It There? is my favorite movie of his, so I'd recommend that. It's not even close to I Don't Want to Sleep Alone on the patience-testing meter.

[Melville]

What Time Is It There? is my favorite movie of his, so I'd recommend that. It's not even close to I Don't Want to Sleep Alone on the patience-testing meter.
Excellent.

[Raiders]

What Time is it There? is masterful and Goodbye, Dragon Inn has a lot of great little moments that make a worthwhile film. I really should see more from Tsai. I am most interested by this film, except it seems quite an unusual film and I think I would rather see more of his earlier work before delving into this.

[Rowland]

What Time is it There? is masterful and Goodbye, Dragon Inn has a lot of great little moments that make a worthwhile film. I really should see more from Tsai. I am most interested by this film, except it seems quite an unusual film and I think I would rather see more of his earlier work before delving into this.Go with The Hole next. I don't know why, but I think you'll really dig it.

[balmakboor]

My first Tsai film was The Hole and it made me make a mad dash to see his other work. I have to say though that The Hole did and did not prepare me for his other works in about equal measures.

I would say my top three are:

1. What Time is it There?
2. The Hole
3. Goodbye, Dragon Inn

How is Wayward Cloud available? I don't see it yet at Netflix. Some other region thing?

[MacGuffin]

Here's what I've seen from him:

The Wayward Cloud – 9
The Hole – 8
The River – 8
I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone – 5
Rebels of the Neon God – 4

Given these ratings, what should I seek out next? I've wanted to see What Time is it There? and Goodbye, Dragon Inn for a while, but I'm afraid they might lean too far toward the I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone style.

Goodbye, Dragon Inn is my favorite so far, and you can't go wrong with renting the DVD since it includes his short film The Skywalk is Gone, which is a prequel to What Time is it There? (another good film) that I just watched for the first time yesterday, and thoroughly enjoyed, despite its short length.

[origami_mustache]

I really love The Skywalk is Gone along with the other two films revolving around those characters, but it actually is an epilogue to What Time Is It There? and a prequel to The Wayward Cloud.

[origami_mustache]

Given these ratings, what should I seek out next? I've wanted to see What Time is it There? and Goodbye, Dragon Inn for a while, but I'm afraid they might lean too far toward the I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone style.

Definitely see those.

Vive L'Amour is another great one.

[MacGuffin]

I really love The Skywalk is Gone along with the other two films revolving around those characters, but it actually is an epilogue to What Time Is It There? and a prequel to The Wayward Cloud.

Are we supposed to assume that the Hsiao Kang from Rebels of the Neon God is the same Hsiao Kang from What Time is it There?, The Skywalk Is Gone, and supposedly The Wayward Cloud?

[Rowland]

Are we supposed to assume that the Hsiao Kang from Rebels of the Neon God is the same Hsiao Kang from What Time is it There?, The Skywalk Is Gone, and supposedly The Wayward Cloud?Don't forget the two Hsiao Kangs in I Don't Want to Sleep Alone.

[origami_mustache]

Are we supposed to assume that the Hsiao Kang from Rebels of the Neon God is the same Hsiao Kang from What Time is it There?, The Skywalk Is Gone, and supposedly The Wayward Cloud?

The River too; same actors playing the parents and same character names, although the stories work on their own. What Time Is It There, The Skywalk is Gone and The Wayward Cloud are the only films that actually tie together though.

[Qrazy]

Here's what I've seen from him:

The Wayward Cloud – 9
The Hole – 8
The River – 8
I Don’t Want to Sleep Alone – 5
Rebels of the Neon God – 4

Given these ratings, what should I seek out next?

What Time Is it There

[Boner M]

I had the same reaction to the end (actually, to most of the second half) of Syndromes and a Century, which I think you also liked.
Ouch, they're two of my favorite films of the year. :sad:

I thought the second half of Syndromes was magnificent, although I think it's supposed to be more baffling (in a good way!) than IDWTSA. But really, I thought it was clear that the repetitions of interaction between the same characters in different settings were supposed to highlight the frailty of human connection/communication in regards to the physical surroundings (and in effect critiquing the industrialization of Thai hospitals, I guess); all those shots that scan the architecture of the hospital environs accompanied to that ghostly music score were masterful in evoking the mysterious and imperceptible ways that emotions and human connection can be affected by such mundane things.

I have to admit that my appreciation of the film has coincided with my depreciation of Inland Empire in that I find Weerasethakul's film is a testament to narrative experimentation not having to be aggressive or deliberately punishing in order to challenge or engage. Why can't avant-garde cinema be fun and happy?

[Melville]

Ouch, they're two of my favorite films of the year. :sad:

I thought the second half of Syndromes was magnificent, although I think it's supposed to be more baffling (in a good way!) than IDWTSA. But really, I thought it was clear that the repetitions of interaction between the same characters in different settings were supposed to highlight the frailty of human connection/communication in regards to the physical surroundings (and in effect critiquing the industrialization of Thai hospitals, I guess)
That did seem to be the obvious intention at the beginning of the second half, with the interview with the monk, but the narrative seemed to drift away from that as it progressed. By the time it got to the gas floating through the ventilation pipes, I didn't really know what was going on.

However, I think that a rewatch would probably be kind to both these films, since my low opinion of them is entirely due to my befuddlement by them.


I have to admit that my appreciation of the film has coincided with my depreciation of Inland Empire in that I find Weerasethakul's film is a testament to narrative experimentation not having to be aggressive or deliberately punishing in order to challenge or engage. Why can't avant-garde cinema be fun and happy?
But the ending of Inland Empire was fun and happy. And I think that the narrative experimentation that preceded the ending was ideal for the film's themes of the disintegration of identity and its relation to cinema (although a second viewing has made me more aware of how much the structure could be improved).

[Boner M]

By the time it got to the gas floating through the ventilation pipes, I didn't really know what was going on.
One of the best scenes ever. :pritch: Sure, it doesn't explicitly mean anything but I found the cutting between smoke being sucked back into the funnel with people leaving the hospital to be a perfectly strange yet apt visual rhyme. However... if we're to read the modernized hospital in the second half as something that obfuscates the connections of the principal players - who get along so well in the first half's more traditional setting - the room becoming less smoky/foggy as they all leave the environs makes quite a bit of sense on reflection (especially since that scene's followed with a bunch of jazzercisers on the streets of Bangkok... an upbeat image of community).


But the ending of Inland Empire was fun and happy. And I think that the narrative experimentation that preceded the ending was ideal for the film's themes of the disintegration of identity and its relation to cinema (although a second viewing has made me more aware of how much the structure could be improved).
I guess the final scene is, but all I seem to remember from the film are those interminable monologues... I came away from the film really liking it when I saw it last year, but I find myself agreeing with Rowland's constant disses more and more with each day. Buuuut, I'll give it another chance for sure.

[Sycophant]

Every time I've popped into General Film Discussion and seen this topic today, Kansas has blared "CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SON" in my mind's ear.

I still haven't seen any Tsai. :sad:

[Qrazy]

Every time I've popped into General Film Discussion and seen this topic today, Kansas has blared "CARRY ON MY WAYWARD SON" in my mind's ear.

I still haven't seen any Tsai. :sad:

Guitar Hero? :)

[dreamdead]

Thoughts on I Don't Want to Sleep Alone appear here cos I'm too tired to post them in the general thread. Anyhoo, this being the third Tsai film (The Hole and What Time is it There? being the others), this one does feel like the most minor of those seen thus far. Parts of the mise en scene belabor the langour that is a part of the characters' lives, especially in that first half, which on initial viewing possesses so little plot that I occasionally lost patience with the atmosphere. That said, I've always responded to Tsai's films more when reflecting on them than on the initial take; that is, they age well and I tend to forget the frustration in favor of the indelible images and mood.

Here the second half of the film works wonders for me, and once Kang became infatuated with the waitress (and plot unfolded) things became more discernable and appreciative. There was something haunting about the scene of the fiberoptic lights out in the streets, and the undercurrents of sexuality had real empathy to me. The Rawang character is definitely the revelation here, as Kang's done his schtick a little too much in my eyes. The can opener scene has real rancor to it, and Rawang's disappointment when Kang and the waitress disappear together is memorably devastating. And I love the final image, despite the circuitousness of it.

Think I'll give this one some time and make The River Tsai's next one.

[Li Lili]

I still haven't seen any Tsai. :sad:
oh!!!!!

:)

[MacGuffin]

I just finished it. It was weird.

[Llopin]

The Wayward Cloud is so wonderful... it takes Tsai's bizarre infatuations with musicals (also present in The Hole) and mixes them with his usual slow, laconic, naively humorous style, in a way which I find most perfect. The ending is just sublime, both funny and emotional, and Lee Kang-sheng gives off an amazing performance.

I'm a sucker for Tsai, I've enjoyed everything's he's done, and eagerly await his next movie, Face, set in Paris, starring Kang-Sheng and also Maggie Cheung and Jean-Pierre Léaud (exciting, but not surprising after all - see Irma Vep and What Time is it There?).

[Li Lili]

The Wayward Cloud is so wonderful... it takes Tsai's bizarre infatuations with musicals (also present in The Hole) and mixes them with his usual slow, laconic, naively humorous style, in a way which I find most perfect. The ending is just sublime, both funny and emotional, and Lee Kang-sheng gives off an amazing performance.

I'm a sucker for Tsai, I've enjoyed everything's he's done, and eagerly await his next movie, Face, set in Paris, starring Kang-Sheng and also Maggie Cheung and Jean-Pierre Léaud (exciting, but not surprising after all - see Irma Vep and What Time is it There?).
hey! Me too. ;)
Lee Kang-sheng's films are worth to check out too, even though they are too much like Tsai films. The Missing was better than Help me Eros.

[MacGuffin]

I'm a sucker for Tsai, I've enjoyed everything's he's done, and eagerly await his next movie, Face, set in Paris, starring Kang-Sheng and also Maggie Cheung and Jean-Pierre Léaud (exciting, but not surprising after all - see Irma Vep and What Time is it There?).

That sounds promising.

[MacGuffin]

I haven't seen it yet. You can still rescue the thread though by watching it and leaving some long and compelling thoughts here.

Ask, and you shall recieve. Well, sort of. I just watched it a second time and came up with this:


You know, fuck this shit. This is probably Tsai's worst movie yet, but obviously not because I'm not sure what to make of it as a whole. But because what little I can make of it is so obnoxiously stupid and aberrantly idiotic, I found myself wondering what was going through Tsai's head half the time. Mind you, he does the romantic comedy well - the first time I watched the movie at the end of last year, I was laughing hysterically at how surprisingly unsubtle everything was, and this time, I guess I just appreciated the body language of the interactions of the characters. In fact, if it weren't for the musical numbers, I'd probably say Lee Keng-sheng gives the best dialogue free performance since Christina Lindberg in Thriller: A Cruel Picture, but then, the musical numbers gave the movie the energy I believe it needed.

But the characters! What are we supposed to make of them? Hsiao-kang has certainly stopped selling watches, and he's sunk into a world of misogyny that Tsai emphasizes in the movie's conclusion. But the problem is he's seriously a nice guy!!! I shit you not, he even asks for seconds on watermelon juice. That's right, watermelon juice! I guess Taiwan just has all these draughts and because of this, they gotta sell those watermelons. Shiang-chyi, the most wholesomely remarkable character in the whole movie (Shiang-chyi Chen's performance is damn near the movie's saving grace) is wholesomely remarkable just because she's clearly just as confused as I am. She wanders around the hallways of her apartment building, she goes to work at the video store, she gazes down at the water under a bridge (but nevermind the whole bit about the draught, so long as we can get that shot of her noticing all of those really dandy watermelons floating in the water). She watches television and wonders: 'Hey, what is going on here?', while drinking some watermelon juice.

Shiang-chyi reunites with Hsiao-kang, the man who sold her a watch in What Time Is It There? (a watchable, but egotistically "profound" movie about longing... for people who sell you watches on street corners) at a park, and the two hit it up once again. She asks him if he still sells watches, and he just smiles and shakes his head no, as if to say, 'No, I have sex with watermelons now'. They're very much alike, but one is clearly more on Tsai's wavelength than the other. If you can tell the difference, then congratulations, you've likely gotten as much as you're going to get out of The Wayward Cloud.

The first time I saw The Wayward Cloud it disgusted me. The second time I saw The Wayward Cloud it disgusted me. Now, I understand that it's not fair to judge how a movie might make you feel, but I think it's perfectly fair to assess The Wayward Cloud based how it makes you feel the way you do. In this situation, the movie is so familiar, and is no more daring than the critically panned Vincent Gallo movie The Brown Bunny.

To be sure, this is probably Tsai's most visually accessible to date. However, I'd say it's his least accessible thematically. The frustrating final minutes don't help much either, as the tone changes without notice almost as if Tsai decided to combine two separate original ideas for the movie (one being the aforementioned "arthouse romcom" and the other being a seriously messed up drama). I agree with the critics who say this is simply a rehash of Tsai's earlier themes. This time, however, he uses all of the elements in his previous movies to create this sleepy, meandering, nihilistic mess which may be little more than an exercise to make as many people feel like shit as possible.

But perhaps I'm asking for more than intended. Maybe The Wayward Cloud doesn't so much focus on Tsai's signature theme 'loneliness', so much as the distance between one another. Where What Time Is It There? focuses on physical distance, The Wayward Cloud takes a more mental approach. The relationship between Hsiao-kang and Shiang-chyi is delightfully humorous because it is so awkward. Hsiao-kang asks for a second cup of watermelon juice right after he pours the first one out the window while Shiang-chyi is in the other room.

Nonetheless, while their relationship is humorous in tone, and completely unsubtle compared to a movie like Goodbye Dragon Inn, where the only real relationships are between the characters and cinema, it is almost entirely subdued. Subdued in the world of The Wayward Cloud, where the entire movie isn't so much a blank palette, but a dark and ugly one, with some colorful musical numbers thrown in.


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