Red State (Kevin Smith)

[angrycinephile]

Teaser:

http://smodcast.com/

[DavidSeven]

Uh, yeah, that's not what I was expecting.

[Dukefrukem]

I am sooooo in.

[BuffaloWilder]

Now we're talking, Mr. Smith.

[transmogrifier]

Say what you will about Smith, but that was a good teaser.

[MacGuffin]

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, no, I'm not interested. I'll probably never see this.

[Watashi]

Looks terrible.

[DavidSeven]

Looks terrible.

Not enough hammer-wielding gods in blue jeans?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Very intriguing trailer, but Smith has duped me before. I won't see this unless its reputation from Smith detractors on this site is stellar.

[transmogrifier]

Looks terrible.

No, the teaser is well structured and edited, with an intriguing use of sound (or lack thereof). The film may yet turn out to be terrible, but that is a captivating advertisement for it.

[Bosco B Thug]

Looks pretty much what I'd expect from Smith taking up the premise. The Bible Belt documentary aesthetic was practically predetermined. That gritty aesthetic and the trailer's construction are practically falling over themselves to get horror hardcores all tingly.

[DavidSeven]

Yeah, I'm almost positive this movie is going to be some level of awful, but they sold it well in that one minute clip.

[megladon8]

I really got nothing out of that, good or bad.

Looked like it could have come from just about any American horror films from the last 7 or 8 years.

I also see absolutely nothing of Kevin Smith in that teaser, which I suppose is a good thing because he's kind of incompetent behind a camera.

Did he write this one?

[Watashi]

Not enough hammer-wielding gods in blue jeans?
Every movie needs that.

[Ezee E]

I've got an inkling that Kevin Smith is actually trying here. Consider me interested.

[Sycophant]

I've got an inkling that Kevin Smith is actually trying here. Consider me interested.

Agreed.

It already looks more visually accomplished than anything Smith and his DP have done to date. Not groundbreaking in terms of modern American cinema, but looks like an interesting effort from this camp.

Goodman can't hurt either.

[Qrazy]

No, the teaser is well structured and edited, with an intriguing use of sound (or lack thereof). The film may yet turn out to be terrible, but that is a captivating advertisement for it.

It doesn't matter if the teaser is competently structured and edited, the images from the film it's representing still look terrible. Watashi is right. It looks terrible.

[transmogrifier]

It doesn't matter if the teaser is well structured and edited, the images from the film it's representing still look terrible. Watashi is right. It looks terrible.

I think it's full of striking images.

[Qrazy]

I think it's full of striking images.

Okay.

[Skitch]

Whoa. Looks tense.

[number8]

Directed by Kevin Smith. Or Rob Zombie. Or Alexandre Aja. Or Marcus Nispel. Maybe.

[Mysterious Dude]

There's a certain artistry to the cinematography that I would not have expected from a Kevin Smith film.

[RoadtoPerdition]

So is this the same Kevin Smith that did Clerks or some new guy on the scene trying to cash-in on the craze of crappy horror movies who just happens to also be named Kevin Smith? I'll probably catch this at some point, but this just seems very out-of-character, like someone dared him, as a joke, to make this type of movie and he complied.

[B-side]

Wow. Consider me pleasantly surprised.

[Henry Gale]

I mean, I'm not even someone that outright dislikes too much of Smith's stuff, but even coming from that standpoint I'd say this is the only sort of drastic change-up he could have done to keep me remotely interested in him as a director.

I also just like the story of Smith showing this to Richard Kelly, who apparently spent most of the movie turning to Smith asking: "No, but seriously... who made this?!"

[eternity]

I had a dream where I watched this movie in full, hated it, and then came on here and whined about it.

I'm still excited though.

[Ezee E]

I had a dream where I watched this movie in full, hated it, and then came on here and whined about it.

I'm still excited though.
Not a dream. You saw the future!

[angrycinephile]

If this movie fails someone should put Kevin on suicide watch.

He seems very bitter nowadays. Jokingly self-deprecating on his podcasts, but online he often lashes out at critics, bloggers and people who dislike his films.

[Mr. Pink]

I watched his latest Q&A movie and apparently he's sick of not really trying to be a real director and this is the result.

It's also the first movie he's written and directed since becoming a hard-core stoner so I'm kind of interested to see how it turns out.

[Ezee E]

It's also the first movie he's written and directed since becoming a hard-core stoner so I'm kind of interested to see how it turns out.

Well that's not believable at all.

[Mr. Pink]

Well that's not believable at all.

No shit. Even as he was telling the story I had trouble believing it. But when you see how much weight he's gained it pretty much speaks for itself.

[Qrazy]

He was being sarcastic.

[Mr. Pink]

He was being sarcastic.

What, that Kevin Smith only recently became a stoner? Could have fooled me.

[monolith94]

Looks like Crash, but with better cinematography.

[number8]

It's not like Smith is saying he wasn't a stoner before. He was. It's just that he got so depressed over Zack and Miri that he literally did nothing but smoke pot all day and binge eat.

[Mr. Pink]

No, he said he wasn't a stoner until recently. He said he'd done it a few times before, but didn't care much for it.

Did you see his new "Evening With" movie? He had a stash a friend gave him locked up in a safe in case someone who did smoke ever came over, just so he could seem cool and go "Yeah, I have weed." But he cracked it out one day for kicks and he's been doing it ever since.

Stoners don't keep their weed locked up in a safe.

[Grouchy]

What the hell is up with informing the free world on his smoking habits, for fucking crying out loud?

I'm pretty sure Fellini and Jodorowsky didn't tweet about their experiences with LSD. And Scorsese doesn't need to tell us about his most depressing cocaine dawn.

If he wants to rank with the top directors, he might wanna try being a fucking gentleman first.

[angrycinephile]

Kevin's response to someone tweeting "Criticism gives your perspective":


Nah - criticism gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's like taking marital advice from the clergy: if you've sworn your life to celibacy, how am I supposed to take anything you say about cohabitation seriously? You'd be clueless. So when other storytellers have something critical to say about my craft? Hey, I'm all ears; I might just learn something. Only someone critical will tell you how important taking criticism is. After a lifetime of experience, I'm here to tell you criticism is not only not important, it's counter-productive. Constructive criticism is a phrase coined by cretins looking for license to insult you to your face without getting punched.

Hmm.

[Qrazy]

What the hell is up with informing the free world on his smoking habits, for fucking crying out loud?

I'm pretty sure Fellini and Jodorowsky didn't tweet about their experiences with LSD. And Scorsese doesn't need to tell us about his most depressing cocaine dawn.

If he wants to rank with the top directors, he might wanna try being a fucking gentleman first.

Yeah but before that he needs to have more ass sex with his wife.

[megladon8]

I don't see what being a gentleman, and being a "top director", have to do with each other.

Nor do I see what being a gentleman has to do with whether or not you're open about smoking weed.


Newsflash: it's 2010, and smoking weed isn't really a big deal anymore.

[Ezee E]

Kevin Smith takes criticism to heart is what seems to be going on here. Possibly because the criticisms are right on.

[Mal]

This looks like a Rob Zombie movie. But frankly I'd rather watch a Rob Zombie movie instead.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Kevin Smith takes criticism to heart is what seems to be going on here. Possibly because the criticisms are right on.

He's always been bad at handling criticism, and now that his more populist efforts like the Apatowish Zack and Miri and buddy-cop Copout have tanked, I can understand him retreating from criticism completely. Shame, given that I like most of his movies.

[Sxottlan]

Well that was unexpected.

And even if the style isn't remotely new, at least there appears to actually be a style with this one.

[angrycinephile]

Kevin just had another meltdown on Twitter ranting about how movie bloggers are the scum of the universe. Again.

I can't decide whether to unfollow him or not. His rants are headache-inducing, but him eventually having to announce that Red State didn't find a distributor at Sundance and will be straight-to-DVD will be priceless.

[Dukefrukem]

Because I hate reading backwards.



A few movie websites this morning have chided me for talking about not doing press on RedState. Number one, that's ironic right there: even I say I'm not doing RedState press... and press writes about it. But I never said I'm not talking: said I always talk plenty right here.


So if you can always ask me anything you want right here (and often get a LONG-ASS response), what's the damage? Besides, the only story in RedState that really needs telling is the MichaelParks story - and, as per usual, NOBODY is writing it. "Gotta wait & see on the Parks of it all. Don't wanna be out front, first with THAT story. Now - the boring story of how KevinSmith Tweeted he's not doing press? THAT'S news!"

And one month from now, when EVERYONE ELSE is writing the MichaelParks story, these websites who wasted their time/space on a fruitless war of words with me are gonna wonder why other websites get more hits/have more followers/earn more than their site does. I'M TELLING YOU THIS FAR OUT: why the FUCK aren't you writing the MichaelParks story? First one out there gets the top Google hits. But these swine have zero vision; it's all "Kevin Smith is gonna hurt his career not talking to press." Seriously: someone actually wrote that story today (naturally,it was a movie news site). This site that's accomplished merely a fraction of what other movie sites in the online fraternity/sorority have,suggested that - since I'm not gonna play the game the normal, boring way, I'm gonna hurt my career. Once again, these motherfuckers are a day late & a dollar short? Hurt Kevin Smith's career? Have you SEEN this: http://smodcast.com/ ? I ain't hurting the career of Kevin Smith,I'm taking a fucking chainsaw to the career of Kevin Smith. That's what you gotta do as an artist: when everyone's comfy, pull the fucking chair out from under their settled asses while showing 'em something they're not used to seeing from anybody, least of all YOU. And if you lose some people in the process, so be it: art should be a little dangerous, scary & thrilling - ESPECIALLY for the artist. You think there isn't some tiny part of me that stops & says "You can make this SO much easier on yourself & the journey of this film if you just do what you've ALWAYS done and go hat-in-hand to the snark-factory..."? But nothing about RedState has been done conventionally; why should I start NOW? Best piece of advice I can give a bunch of people who only wanna shit on what I do? Go find MichaelParks and BECOME the interview of record. Stop writing about how you're mad at me, or how I'm not doing it your way, or how I'm gonna hurt myself. Write about something original: the guy who the entire WORLD is about to wanna talk to. The money's out there; pick it up it's yours; you don't, I got no sympathy for you. "Hurt Kevin Smith's Career"? Bitch, I've ANNIHILATED Kevin Smith's Career. And now? I get to remake it, all over again. And I've got a dopey movie blogger to thank for it: one day, one of these hymens wrote "Kevin Smith owes his career to people like me" - said people being bloggers, critics, movie journalists. I gave this some serious thought & realized I'd never know whether that theory was true or not.

But while I couldn't validate the veracity of the statement, I realized it didn't matter: if people like this were to thank for my career, then I didn't want that career anymore. So I made SModcast. And now RedState. And then combined the two. And realized I could do it without the help of the same people who don't seem to have anything nice to say about not only my flicks, but ANYBODY'S flicks they see. Their game is rigged; why play it? I go to the carnival, I wanna ride the roller-coaster, not waste money on the rigged games of chance, the rewards of which are cheap, empty prizes that don't seem nearly as cool in the light of day, away from the cotton candy haze. If they weren't convinced that I made my own way the first time, I'm happy (and more importantly, EXCITED) to do it again, one more time - just to prove that point.

And if you're gonna make art, you SHOULD reinvent periodically anyway. Lots of jackasses writing about my craft & how I conduct it weren't even BORN when I built my shit from scratch. They can't possibly be expected to be impressed by shit they couldn't witness for themselves because they were just cum when it happened the first time. So rather than continue being the same ol' KevinSmith that all these movie sites kept insisting I was, I practiced my game, skated night & day, and learned to stay out of the scrum & figure out where the puck was going.

I stopped being the KevinSmith they loved to bitch about; the KevinSmith they chided to change. So I changed. And guess what? Now they're bitching about that? And trying to scare me with some booga-booga bullshit about hurting my career. Like I said: the game's rigged. So why play it on THEIR terms? KobayashiMaru that shit: at the very worst, you get bitched-out by cowards. At best? You BECOME James Tiberius Kirk.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Gosh he's a jackass.

[Sycophant]

I don't like how he uses "hymen" as a pejorative.

"Jackass" is probably the best word for him.

[Raiders]

Since apparently it hasn't been reported by the hymen, what the heck is so interesting about Michael Parks?

[Kurosawa Fan]

My guess is that Kevin Smith thinks he did a good job in his movie. So everyone better rush to that breaking bit of news.

[angrycinephile]

The man made the same movie for 16 years, then makes one generic-looking slasher film and all of a sudden he starts preaching about the importance of reinventing yourself as an artist. Heh.

[number8]

...

You know, he met his journalist wife because she interviewed him when he was doing press for a movie.

[MacGuffin]

Okay, now I remember why I hate him.

[Dead & Messed Up]

It's weird that he's bold enough to step outside of the box with Red State and cowardly enough to dismiss any negative criticism.

[Sven]

Personally, I can't get upset with someone for understanding how retarded the film journalism industry is. Doesn't mean I like his movies, but he definitely has a point. And Michael Parks is tremendous -- I'm curious about what Smith is referring to, "his story."

[Dukefrukem]

I laughed a lot during Jay & Silent Bob Strike back.

[Sycophant]

Another note: I hate when people use Twitter to tweet long thoughts/sentences/paragraphs that have to be broken up into separate tweets. Commit to the 140-character limit and don't pollute my feed with a bunch of incomprehensible strings of words that I need to disassemble my brain to make sense of. Just get a blog and give us a link.

[eternity]

You guys...

[Ezee E]

Another note: I hate when people use Twitter to tweet long thoughts/sentences/paragraphs that have to be broken up into separate tweets. Commit to the 140-character limit and don't pollute my feed with a bunch of incomprehensible strings of words that I need to disassemble my brain to make sense of. Just get a blog and give us a link.
I think there's some tweeting thing that will let you post all of it. I don't know. I've given up on twitter myself

[Skitch]

I like that people are complaining about what Smith is posting on his twitter account. Maybe I'm a rube because I don't have an account, but you don't have to see his posts, yes? And if you hate the guy in the first place, why read his stuff at all?

Eh, maybe just me, but I wouldn't follow/friend people I hated. .

[Sycophant]

Mine was just a note about something people on Twitter (beyond Smith, who I don't hate but also don't follow) do that annoys me.

[Skitch]

I understood that in your initial post, sir. My coment wasn't pointed at you or anyone in this thread really, just a wide observation. :)

[Qrazy]

Twitter sucks.

[Sxottlan]

Remember when Smith posted over at Rotten Tomatoes?

Yikes.

:pritch:

[KK2.0]

I laughed a lot during Jay & Silent Bob Strike back.

Funny that you brought this because if i'm not mistaken, there's a scene where Jay and Silent Bob go door to door to beat the crap out of every kid that bashed their movie on the internet.


Remember when Smith posted over at Rotten Tomatoes?

It only took ONE troll for that thread to derail. :lol:

Smith has serious issues with approval, I don't hate the guy but he needs to get over this.

[Grouchy]

Remember when Smith posted over at Rotten Tomatoes?

Yikes.

:pritch:
He embarassed himself pretty badly.

[eternity]

Reception about the film itself has been generally positive (http://www.slashfilm.com/kevin-smiths-red-state-quick-reactions/#disqus_thread). Drew McWeeny is pissed off though, which is always nice.

[MacGuffin]

Damn, John Goodman is like twice as small now.

[Sxottlan]

Smith is saying (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=73468) he'll self-distribute Red State.

He also claims he'll quit directing after his next film. So I guess don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Henry Gale]

So it seems like Smith staged an auction for the film and instead got up onstage with and bought it himself for 20 bucks. He spent the rest of the time describing how he's going to roll out the movie himself, starting with an 13-stop American tour of it through March where he'll show the film and then follow with a Q&A with him and Michael Parks (though this will likely cost quite a bit). He then says they expect to make back about half of the movie's $4 million budget with that, but won't spend too much more on conventional advertising for the main, self-release on October 19th.

I think I can wait.

[Ezee E]

Anything more then $20 is silly.

[number8]

Drew McWeeny is pissed off though, which is always nice.

This part of his review cracked me up.


I am sure I'll hear people defend the script, talking about it as "bold" and "original" and how it takes risks and twists and turns. I disagree. I disagree completely. And for once, I am in a position to respond to the most immature reaction to criticism, because if someone says to me, "Well, if you think you can do it better, you should."

Ahem. I think I did. Humbly submitted, I will be happy to tell you every single thing I think is wrong with my "Masters Of Horror" episode "Pro-Life," directed by John Carpenter, and it's not a small list. But I will also tell you that we deal with very similar material, we did it in 2006, we did it for 1/4 of the money Smith spent, we had Ron Perlman who was amazing in the film, and I didn't spend a year of my life bent in half like a carnival freak blowing myself in public in the lead-up to the release of the episode.

[eternity]

This part of his review cracked me up.
I don't know who is more of a blowhard; McWeeny or Smith. It seems to me that after Cop Out was frowned upon and he was kicked off of a plane, Kevin Smith has legitimately gone apeshit, while McWeeny is just...well, an asshole.

But seriously Kevin, get help.

[Watashi]

I can never forgive Drew for naming his son, Toshiro Lucas McWeeny. I mean... what the hell?

[eternity]

I can never forgive Drew for naming his son, Toshiro Lucas McWeeny. I mean... what the hell?
I'm going to do to him what he did to Kevin Smith yesterday and never mention or think about him ever again. Christ.

[number8]

It's kinda funny because Kevin Smith did the same thing to his daughter, but at least his makes sense as a name (Harley Quinn Smith) beyond the reference.

[D_Davis]

I really don't like geek-homage names.

I'm going to name my kid Tsui Hark Lau Kar Leung Chang Cheh Kung Fu Ambient Davis.

[number8]

I tried to think of the most badass name for a son, and I have decided that a boy cannot have a manlier name than Batman's Cock Ponto.

[D_Davis]

I tried to think of the most badass name for a son, and I have decided that a boy cannot have a manlier name than Batman's Cock Ponto.

I'll name my kid Bane's Dick Davis, then we'll make them fight.

[eternity]

Funny thing about Batman's back...

[Acapelli]

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2011/01/who_would_pay_1.html

he's charging $68-142 to see "red state" at radio city in new york

what a ridiculous man

[Dead & Messed Up]

See, the problem with McWeeny is that I've seen "Pro-Life," and if he's not bringing up "Pro-Life" so he can apologize for it, he should shut up, because that's how bad "Pro-Life" is.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Who the fuck is McWeeny and why do you guys know what he named his kid?

In other news, charging $68-142 for a Kevin Smith movie ticket (or really, any movie ticket as far as I'm concerned) is so laughable, putting a laughing smiley wouldn't do it justice.

[Ezee E]

I'm guessing he still has enough followers that people will still buy tickets though.

[Watashi]

Drew McWeeny used to work for Ain't It Cool News. Now he's just a blogger with his own website. I used to like his reviews, but lately, he's become more douchey. He's turning into another Devin Faraci.

[number8]

He used to write under the name Moriarty. The story of how he started to write under his real name is pretty funny actually.

One day, Harry Knowles posted an article gushing about a random indie horror spec script he just came across called Amusement and that it's going to be the next big thing. Some other bloggers basically went, "Umm, Harry, isn't that written by Drew McWeeny, and isn't that the real name of Moriarty, who is your writer? And isn't this ridiculously unethical?"

[Dead & Messed Up]

He used to write under the name Moriarty. The story of how he started to write under his real name is pretty funny actually.

One day, Harry Knowles posted an article gushing about a random indie horror spec script he just came across called Amusement and that it's going to be the next big thing. Some other bloggers basically went, "Umm, Harry, isn't that written by Drew McWeeny, and isn't that the real name of Moriarty, who is your writer? And isn't this ridiculously unethical?"

Hah! I didn't know this happened. My lasting memories of Harry are his face and his review of Blade 2. Sometimes I think of them simultaneously, and I get ill.

[Watashi]

I've been warming up to Harry over the years. His writing style is nauesating to a point, but you just have to admire that guy's passion for movies.

[Sycophant]

you just have to admire that guy's passion for movies.

I really don't.

[number8]

Hah! I didn't know this happened. My lasting memories of Harry are his face and his review of Blade 2. Sometimes I think of them simultaneously, and I get ill.

Harry was also the one who introduced McWeeny to Carpenter, who he's good friends with. So you can blame Pro-Life on him too, I guess.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I've been warming up to Harry over the years. His writing style is nauesating to a point, but you just have to admire that guy's passion for movies.

No, I don't. The Internet's not lacking for people passionate for film.

[number8]

Despite the asinine name, I do want to go to Butt-Numb-a-Thon one of these years.

[Ezee E]

Despite the asinine name, I do want to go to Butt-Numb-a-Thon one of these years.
I'd sign up for that. But Harry's "passion" almost seems forced to me. His writing style is not interesting in the least either. I stopped reading him years ago, around the time of that infamous Blade 2 review. Although it was a Charlie's Angels review that finally did it.

[Sven]

I really don't.

srsly

[Raiders]

I wouldn't call what Harry Knowles has "passion"... more like selective retardation.

[DavidSeven]

I just looked up this supposedly infamous Blade 2 review for the first time.






Oh lord. Please let me un-see what I have seen.

:|

[D_Davis]

Thanks guys. For the last couple of years I had completely forgotten about Ain't it Cool, and that Blade II review. Thanks for making me remember.

[Acapelli]

let's go back to ridiculing kevin smith for asking for outrageous sums of money to see his new movie followed by some verbal ejaculation about star wars or something

[number8]

It's basically the cost of a ticket to his regular speaking tour + $10.

[Derek]

It's basically the cost of a ticket to his regular speaking tour + $10.

Except this is a movie with Q&A. Anything over $30 is absurd.

[number8]

I agree, I'm just saying it's still in the ballpark of how much his fans would pay to see him. And this time they get a new movie out of it.

[Sycophant]

People pay that much for live concerts. If you're a fan, it makes sense. I'd probably drop $100 for a touring screening of a Takeshi Kitano film with Kitano doing a talkback or something after.

Can't imagine doing it for Smith, personally, but I get it.

[Acapelli]

i would NEVER pay that much for a concert, no matter how much i love the band

but then again i don't have very much disposable income

[Sycophant]

i would NEVER pay that much for a concert, no matter how much i love the band

I don't think I would either. But I hate concerts.

Unless I could sit in a chair like I can at a film or a speaking engagement. Then maybe.

[number8]

You don't think people sit at concerts?

[Derek]

People pay that much for live concerts. If you're a fan, it makes sense. I'd probably drop $100 for a touring screening of a Takeshi Kitano film with Kitano doing a talkback or something after.

Can't imagine doing it for Smith, personally, but I get it.

But most directors don't charge anything for doing a Q&A is my point.


You don't think people sit at concerts?

Yeah, I sit at concerts all the time. I'm all about front-row balcony seats.

[Sycophant]

You don't think people sit at concerts?

Not at the rock concerts Ive been to. Unless you sit at the far, far end if a venue, either on the floor or some obscure bench where the acoustics are terrible and you can't see the band at all.

[Sycophant]

Not at the rock concerts Ive been to. Unless you sit at the far, far end if a venue, either on the floor or some obscure bench where the acoustics are terrible and you can't see the band at all.

Exception to the above: when I saw the Coup at a local bar. I coulda sat down and watched just fine from my table, but I was compelled to stand ip and DANCE.

[DavidSeven]

My favorite concert experiences are definitely the ones where I was comfortably seated. But yeah, I've been to many where this wasn't a preferable option.

[Watashi]

Thanks guys. For the last couple of years I had completely forgotten about Ain't it Cool, and that Blade II review. Thanks for making me remember.
It's a must read for everyone.

[Watashi]

Unless you are going to Coachella or a huge festival concert, you pretty much sit and enjoy the music.

[Sycophant]

Non-stadium venues in Salt Lake might just be worse than they are in California. After 3 hours of standing, my back usually hurts too much to see the main act qt a lot of shows.

[Ezee E]

Don't go to many concerts. But I rarely pay for general admission, and the only choice you have is to sit, minus standing and "dancing" to the big songs and for the encore.

[Ezee E]

I wouldn't call what Harry Knowles has "passion"... more like selective retardation.
Well said.

I sometimes read his articles about the DVDs coming out, and this describes his capsules perfectly.

[Grouchy]

Can't imagine wanting to sit down at a rock concert. I want to stand, dance and sing.

Must be why Argentina is the favorite audience of a lot of rock bands from the Rolling Stones to Iron Maiden.

[Ezee E]

Can't imagine wanting to sit down at a rock concert. I want to stand, dance and sing.

Must be why Argentina is the favorite audience of a lot of rock bands from the Rolling Stones to Iron Maiden.
Of course, then there's groups like Dropkick Murphys or Reverend Horton Heat, where it's ideal to be in the general admission area.

Moshpits aren't for me, but it's still fun to be rocking out. There seems to be a "respect" for people in moshpits around here, because whenever I see people fall, they are immediately picked up by 5-6 others, and it's always in a centralized area, so others can rock out on there own.

[Grouchy]

There seems to be a "respect" for people in moshpits around here, because whenever I see people fall, they are immediately picked up by 5-6 others, and it's always in a centralized area, so others can rock out on there own.
Of course, that's the first rule of moshpits - don't allow anyone to get hurt.

[Derek]

Of course, that's the first rule of moshpits - don't allow anyone to get hurt.

I thought it was you do not talk about moshpits.

[/grrrroan]

[Kurosawa Fan]

Can't imagine wanting to sit down at a rock concert. I want to stand, dance and sing.

Must be why Argentina is the favorite audience of a lot of rock bands from the Rolling Stones to Iron Maiden.

Seriously? You believe rock bands when they tell you that? Do you also believe strippers when they tell you how turned on they're getting during a lap dance?

[Derek]

Clearly the best audiences in the world are in Portugal.

P7F3O6WYfHQ

[Kurosawa Fan]

:lol:

Awesome.

[Skitch]

Seriously? You believe rock bands when they tell you that? Do you also believe strippers when they tell you how turned on they're getting during a lap dance?

From a guy who was in a rock band that went nowhere in the states, its true. We got tour offers in South America.

[Lasse]

Do you also believe strippers when they tell you how turned on they're getting during a lap dance?

Way to ruin my day. :|

[Kurosawa Fan]

Way to ruin my day. :|

Well, I don't want to pile it on, but you also should trust contractors when they give you and estimate or a time frame.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Well, I don't want to pile it on, but you also should trust contractors when they give you and estimate or a time frame.

Or when an auto repair shop insists on ten other things you really should take care of while you're there.

[Lasse]

Well, I don't want to pile it on, but you also should trust contractors when they give you and estimate or a time frame.

You're just asking for a link in the quay!

[Kurosawa Fan]

You're just asking for a link in the quay!

Maybe you should have a glass of water and calm down!

[Lasse]

Maybe you should have a glass of water and calm down!

Water! :frustrated:

[Grouchy]

Seriously? You believe rock bands when they tell you that? Do you also believe strippers when they tell you how turned on they're getting during a lap dance?
Heheh.

Fine, but it's true. The crowds in South America are way more enthusiastic and warm than in the US and Europe.

[Dukefrukem]

coming to VOD this Labor Day

[Dead & Messed Up]

I liked this movie.

[B-side]

I liked this movie.

Talk to me, brother.

[eternity]

Kevin Smith doesn't understand anything except comic books and sodomy, does he?

Fuck. This movie was his funniest in a decade and for all the wrong reasons.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Talk to me, brother.

Okay. Here's what I said in my blog.


In the credits of Red State, Kevin Smith lists the characters by grouping them into categories. Sex, Religion, and Politics. Almost all of his characters embody the worst aspects of their respective group. "Sex" refers to the trio of teenage boys who are sexually anxious, constantly swearing, so eager to prove themselves to each other that they agree to have a four-way with a woman online. Ew. Michael Angarano, Kyle Gallner, and Nicholas Braun play Travis, Jared, and Billy Ray as helpless horndogs, more pitiable than sleazy, difficult to care for...but after being drugged and bound and ball-gagged and stuck in a cage, sympathy’s easy to come by.

"Religion" belongs to the evangelical gun-nuts headed by Abin Cooper, and Michael Parks makes the role both lionesque and serpentine. He leads his pride with a triumphant mane of grey hair, and his words slip from his mouth like temptations in Eden. His speeches might go on longer than necessary, but Parks is so good – the way he cheerily ushers the children out, the switches between doom-saying and warm smiles – that too much is not enough. Melissa Leo is the only actor in this group to escape his shadow, her fury an effective counterpoint to his confidence, but even she kneels before him and cooks him tea. It's easy to see how these people could be led to murder.

The government agents ("Politics") assigned to capture the Cooper family fall under the leadership of John Goodman’s Joseph Keenan, and what a relief it is to see him enter the movie. Like Marge Gunderson in Fargo, he’s a late-film-arrival who’s smarter and more thoughtful than anybody else in the film. After he speaks with the nervous Sheriff Wynan (Stephen Root, far too blustery), Keenan assembles a support team ready to follow orders. Keenan's initial desire is to take out the entire Cooper family, but the growing complexity of the situation leaves him uncertain. In this fight, there's no right thing to do, just varying degrees of wrong.

Previous films from Smith emphasized dialogue over action, but the energy here is palpable, as the film morphs from a horror-thriller into a bleak gunfight, Peckinpah filtered through the gift and curse of modern action editing. Call it intensified continuity or shakey-cam or chaos cinema, but here, it serves a purpose. Smith wants his violence to feel ugly and messy, and the newsreel immediacy evokes real-life atrocities like Jonestown and Waco. There are scenes of sudden, shocking violence in this film that keep the film genuinely on edge, and the editing matches the action throughout. The camera holds steady on Abin's face during his sermon, while a desperate flight through the Cooper house leaves viewers' eyes racing to keep up.

There are also images of humor and of sick irony, as when a terrified Billy Ray crosses himself before leveling his gun at a door. There is even a moment that recalls films like The Rapture and Frailty, where viewers have to wonder how God and our world can possibly be reconciled. But a deus ex machina would miss the point, because Red State wants to challenge the idea of absolute higher power. Across all three spheres - sex, religion, politics - characters abandon who they are for the certainty of some higher power. Teen boys follow their hormones. Believers follow their God. Soldiers follow their generals. These are the rules. These are the groups. Blue states and red states. Welcome to America.

RATING: B

[B-side]

That's a fantastic piece. Better than anything I could've possibly written on it. I actually was not aware that Smith divided them into categories in the credits, though that certainly feels right given the trajectory and characterizations in the film. I was going to compare Red State to something the child of Rob Zombie and Sam Peckinpah would make, but feared repercussions. :P

[Dead & Messed Up]

That's a fantastic piece. Better than anything I could've possibly written on it. I actually was not aware that Smith divided them into categories in the credits, though that certainly feels right given the trajectory and characterizations in the film. I was going to compare Red State to something the child of Rob Zombie and Sam Peckinpah would make, but feared repercussions. :P

I think that's right-on. And if we as a board can make room for Speed Racer and Crank admiration, I think we can make room for this as well. No fear of repercussions necessary.

[eternity]

This film gives me vibes of Uwe Boll's non video game adaptations. The commentary on politics and religion as well as the way the action is filmed just scream Boll. It fits right in there with his film Rampage.

And that's only kind of a bad thing.

[Dukefrukem]

This is streaming on Netflix!

[Skitch]

Yep, I watched it the day it hit. :)

Interesting film. Very unique.

[Ezee E]

Dislike thread title.

[Dukefrukem]

His best film.

[Mr. Pink]

A friend of mine doesn't even wanna see this because he says it's too easy to make Christians seem crazy, and it would be better going after Islam instead.

I think he shut up when I told him that would be an even easier target, and the only difference between the two is how closely they follow their respective religious texts.

[number8]

Finally decided to give this a go.

On one hand, I'm somewhat impressed that Kevin Smith managed to pull this off, in scope and in pulling great performances from the cast in a way that isn't the typical "just make sure you emphasize the delivery of my awesome dialogue when you act."

On the other hand, this is quite a shitty movie, narratively. It seems obvious that he didn't really have an actual story to tell and just wanted to exploit some things on the news he finds disturbing and then speculating their rationale in the most banal way possible. Why would teenage boys have a four way in a trailer with an old woman? "Cause we wanna fuck!" Why are the religious so hostile? "Cause people like to fuck!" Why would the government execute children? "Cause fuck people like them!"

Also, what's with the lawsuit-phobic backtracking where John Goodman explicitly spells out that these guys are different from Westboro? "Phelps are suers, these guys are doers." It doesn't just undercut the satire, but it also saps the tension out of the premise when you call attention to the real life counterpart. You make the family borderline Die Hard villains, then anything violent they do isn't as disturbing as Parks' sermons, which is truly unsettling because you can easily see people like Phelps, Pat Robertson etc preaching. The White Al Qaeda with Chuck Norris' armory angle... They probably exist, too, but it's not a representation of the true horror of the Christian cult mentality that the movie's premise banked on.

Really, the only thing I found genuinely creepy is the moment with the apocalyptic horn. Too bad Smith then gives us an overly elaborate explanation as to what it was in what's probably the most energy-sapping epilogue to follow a climax since the psychobabble at the end of Psycho.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Also, what's with the lawsuit-phobic backtracking where John Goodman explicitly spells out that these guys are different from Westboro? "Phelps are suers, these guys are doers." It doesn't just undercut the satire, but it also saps the tension out of the premise when you call attention to the real life counterpart.

I agree with this. There's a scene like this in In the Mouth of Madness, where the lady says, "You can forget about Stephen King, Sutter Cane outsells 'em all." These characters are supposed to be metaphors. Putting them right next to the inspiration dilutes the message.

[Dukefrukem]

I agree with this. There's a scene like this in In the Mouth of Madness, where the lady says, "You can forget about Stephen King, Sutter Cane outsells 'em all." These characters are supposed to be metaphors. Putting them right next to the inspiration dilutes the message.

Having watched that recently I also agree with both this and 8's example.

[Spun Lepton]

Agreed on the Westboro thing, it does dull the sharper edges of the satire, however, he's very obviously mocking them. I suspect a studio lawyer required him to do it.

[Rowland]

Really, the only thing I found genuinely creepy is the moment with the apocalyptic horn. Too bad Smith then gives us an overly elaborate explanation as to what it was in what's probably the most energy-sapping epilogue to follow a climax since the psychobabble at the end of Psycho.I read it more in the same manner as how the Coens ended Burn Before Reading, albeit it's achieved nowhere near as successfully or meaningfully.

[Grouchy]

Just finished watching this. My thoughts mirror number8's. I'm pleasantly surprised that Kevin Smith managed to pull his head out of his own ass long enough to make a proper movie, but it still isn't very good. It feels underwritten, mostly. Michael Parks and Melissa Leo give power performances but the script doesn't help them. The structural similarities with Fargo and Burn After Reading also came to mind.

[megladon8]

When I was 18 I discovered H.P. Lovecraft through a book of his short stories, which happened to include most of his most defining work with the Cthulhu mythos. I became so obsessed with these stories that I began to have a recurring nightmare in which I was either on a boat or on the shore of a lake. It's nighttime, and all of a sudden a few small bubbles begin to float to the surface near the center of the lake. A few more. Suddenly a small patch begins to form at the surface, a white foam of all the bubbles collecting. The water begins to swirl lightly, only noticeable when the wind-swept trees are blown out of the way of the moonlight enough to see the dead, black water creating a mini whirlpool.

thruuuuuu-uuuuuuummmm

A sound so deep it can be felt more than heard begins to emanate from the water, deep below the silken black surface.

THRUUUU-UUUUUUUUUUUMMMM

The sound gets louder. Something is getting closer to the surface. The entire lake is collected into the spinning of the water.

THRUUUUUUU-UUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMM

We're almost able to see what is coming up, now. There is a bulge pushing up from under the water. We can see the top of it beginning to pierce through.

THRUUUUUUUUU-UUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM

The sound is deafening now, the bass hurting my chest. Just one more second and we'll start to see the form of this...thing rising from the water.


And I wake up. Like that split second before hitting the ground, I wake up startled, unsure of where I am. It takes ten or fifteen seconds for me to collect myself before I begin to reflect on how utterly terrifying that moment was. How it took a fairly bland, unimaginative dream and gave it something that would stay with me for years. How glad I was that it had ended there, at that perfect moment, knowing what was coming and allowing my mind to imagine the horrors laying underneath that lake.


So when I was a kid I had these two dogs. They were born and grew up together. Best of friends. One of them liked to eat a lot and the other one was kind of scrawny. I always felt bad for the smaller one because he so readily submitted to the bigger one. He didn't even try to defend his dish, his food, even his life. He just accepted that his food wasn't ever really his. Until one day, out of the blue, he decided to fight the bigger one over a turkey leg. He got his ass handed to him. Died on our kitchen floor.

I really don't know why I decided to tell that story. Kind of ruined what came before, right? You know, I thought it had something to do with what I was talking about...

Oh, well.

[Ezee E]

Wrong thread?

[megladon8]

Wrong thread?


Have you seen the movie?

[Ezee E]

Have you seen the movie?
Scanned your post more then anything.

[D_Davis]

This film gives me vibes of Uwe Boll's non video game adaptations. The commentary on politics and religion as well as the way the action is filmed just scream Boll. It fits right in there with his film Rampage.

And that's only kind of a bad thing.

Boll's non video game films are kind of interesting.

[megladon8]

Scanned your post more then anything.


If you've seen the movie, the post will make sense.

[eternity]

Boll's non video game films are kind of interesting.
Rampage was surprisingly competent considering who made it, but Seed was the worst of the Boll films I've seen, which there are way too many of.