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View Full Version : The Whitest Shows on Television Consensus Thread (1980-Present)



Derek
10-27-2010, 11:12 PM
http://www.fogette.com/wg/wildchild.jpg

An idea that spawned yesterday when upon singing the theme song to The Golden Girls to a Mexican co-worker, I was met with a blank stare and an admission that he'd never watched the show. Perhaps the comic exploits of Dorothy, Rose, Blanche and Sophia don't speak to the experience of a tatted up Mexican raised in East LA I thought, yet shows like this were not only a crucial part of my formative years, but also in molding my racial identity as a white male who was raised in the suburbs and attended a high school that was 97% white. So what shows are most tightly linked to whiteness?

To clarify, I'm not necessarily looking for shows that only have white people them, but shows that are both designed for mainstream white audiences and speak specifically to the collective white experience, or more accurately, the collective white experience the powers that be would like us to imagine we have. Lots of shows have been suggested in the Random Thoughts thread and will be listed below. I will include almost any suggestion, but will be ruling out soap operas (daytime and primetime) as well as teen shows (Dawson's Creek, One Tree Hill, 90210) since their whiteness is more a niche whiteness and the former are often watched more by older adults/the elderly and the latter marketed to an age group rather than a race. Shows like Frasier and Roseanne will certainly be eligible, though personally, these shows speak as much to a certain class experience as they do race, but that's just me and what we have here is a consensus.

For now, I'd like to leave the thread open for continued discussion and suggestions, but on Friday, everyone can submit a ranked top 10 (simple 10 thru 1 scoring), though I will accept any list with at least 5 with a countdown to follow in the future.

I'm opening the thread now, but will add all suggested shows from Random Thoughts in this thread at some point today.

Eligible Shows (In progress)

7th Heaven
Adventures of Pete and Pete, The
ALF
Blossom
Bosom Buddies
Charles in Charge
Coach
Designing Women
Doogie Hauser MD
Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman
Drew Carey Show, The
Due South
Early Edition
Empty Nest
Everybody Loves Raymond
Facts of Life, The
Family Ties
Frasier
Friends
Full House
Gilmore Girls
Golden Girls
Greatest American Hero
Growing Pains
Highway to Heaven
Home Improvement
JAG
Just the Ten of Us
Kate & Allie
Mad About You
Major Dad
Mama's Family
Moonlighting
Mr. Belvedere
Murder She Wrote
Murphy Brown
My Two Dads
Nash Bridges
Newhart
Northern Exposure
Perfect Strangers
Punky Brewster
Roseanne
Scarecrow and Mrs. King
Silver Spoons
Small Wonder
Step By Step
The Hogan Family
Thirtysomething
Too Close for Comfort
Two and a Half Men
Walker, Texas Ranger
Who's the Boss
Will & Grace
Wings
Wonder Years

Spaceman Spiff
10-27-2010, 11:24 PM
None of those shows look any good.

Derek
10-27-2010, 11:32 PM
None of those shows look any good.

Trust me, this thread was not meant to make white people feel good about themselves.

soitgoes...
10-27-2010, 11:35 PM
Highway to Heaven, Happy Days, Three's Company, Laverne & Shirley, ALF and Coach

Derek
10-27-2010, 11:45 PM
Highway to Heaven, Happy Days, Three's Company, Laverne & Shirley, ALF and Coach

First and last two added. Good call on ALF. Happy Day's, Three's Company and Laverne & Shirley, despite their whiteness, are pre-80s and thus ineligible.

soitgoes...
10-27-2010, 11:45 PM
I guess some of those started in the 70's. They had an impact in syndication throughout the 80's for me at least.

soitgoes...
10-27-2010, 11:59 PM
Too Close for Comfort, Will & Grace, Doogie Hauser MD, Blossom, Greatest American Hero

The first one is a must.

Derek
10-28-2010, 12:02 AM
I guess some of those started in the 70's. They had an impact in syndication throughout the 80's for me at least.

No doubt. I had to put SOME sort of restrictions on or there'd be no overlap or agreement, so I made the cutoff 1980. In the 80s, you finally started to get more shows that weren't distinctly aimed for whites or blacks, so I think it's more interesting to focus on the modern era. The 70s had Sanford & Sons, Good Times, The Jeffersons, What's Happening!, etc. that kind of opened the market to a wider black audience and most shows outside of that niche were essentially really, really white. The grey area started in the 80s IMO.

Spaceman Spiff
10-28-2010, 12:03 AM
Trust me, this thread was not meant to make white people feel good about themselves.

I'm not white. Thank god for small mercies.

Derek
10-28-2010, 12:06 AM
Too Close for Comfort, Will & Grace, Doogie Hauser MD, Blossom, Greatest American Hero

The first one is a must.

Can't believe I overlooked Blossom. I didn't remember Too Close for Comfort until I watched the opening and it looks like you're right. Poor Ted Knight. :(

Derek
10-28-2010, 12:07 AM
I'm not white. Thank god for small mercies.

Oh, sorry, didn't mean to implicate you. I'm white and, therefore, I assume everyone else is white until informed otherwise. ;)

Spaceman Spiff
10-28-2010, 12:09 AM
Oh, sorry, didn't mean to implicate you. I'm white and, therefore, I assume everyone else is white until informed otherwise. ;)

Don't worry, I can't dance either.

soitgoes...
10-28-2010, 12:11 AM
I didn't remember Too Close for Comfort until I watched the opening and it looks like you're right. Poor Ted Knight. :(
As white as you can get.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/soitgoes22/Too_Close_for_Comfort.jpg

soitgoes...
10-28-2010, 12:15 AM
I'm afraid the majority of our posters are too young to know about most of these shows.

Watashi
10-28-2010, 12:30 AM
Two and a Half Men
Everybody Loves Raymond
The Drew Carey Show

Ezee E
10-28-2010, 12:31 AM
I've never seen an episode of probably 95% of these.

Watashi
10-28-2010, 12:32 AM
Dinosaurs!

soitgoes...
10-28-2010, 12:35 AM
Eight Is Enough shouldn't count.

Russ
10-28-2010, 12:43 AM
Just doin' my part...

Simon and Simon
The Fall Guy
Dynasty
Falcon Crest
Magnum, PI
Cagney & Lacey (candidate for whitest show of all time)
Remington Steele
Hardcastle and McCormick
The Hogan Family
Jake and the Fatman (it was the Walker, Texas Ranger of its time :))
The Arsenio Hall Show (woop woop, can I get a amen?)
Quantum Leap ("them crazy white mothafuckas jumpin' all over time")
Saved by the Bell
America's Funniest Home Videos (Please. This show is almost too white.)
The Tracey Ullman Show (except, I don't think even white people watched it)
Melrose Place
The Nanny
Touched By an Angel (sounds pretty white to me)
The Drew Carey Show (Drew rivals Bob Newhart as the whitest man in television)
Everybody Loves Raymond (candidate for whitest show of all time)
Ally McBeal (Calista Flockheart is the female Bob Newhart)

and I'm gonna stop on Dharma and Greg, another candidate for the whitest show ever made.

Derek
10-28-2010, 12:46 AM
As white as you can get.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee171/soitgoes22/Too_Close_for_Comfort.jpg

Wow, and with Jim J. Bullock to boot.


I'm afraid the majority of our posters are too young to know about most of these shows.

I'll start posting the opening credits for the older/lesser known shows. For stuff like Family Ties and The Hogan Family, it only takes about a minute to get the idea. Obviously, the younger crowd is welcome to vote for the more recent eligible shows.


Two and a Half Men
Everybody Loves Raymond
The Drew Carey Show

Will add.


I've never seen an episode of probably 95% of these.

Really? There are about 50 shows as of now...you've only seen episodes from 2 1/2 of them? ;) Just go by the opening credits or you know, go with your gut. You're white - your instincts won't mislead you here.


Eight Is Enough shouldn't count.

Well, damn. I've never seen an episode, but I would've sworn it was an 80s show.

soitgoes...
10-28-2010, 12:51 AM
Wow, and with Jim J. Bullock to boot.And he plays a gay living in a conservative household! Look out 80's suburbia! If it can happen to Ted Knight, it can happen to you.

Derek
10-28-2010, 01:01 AM
And he plays a gay living in a conservative household! Look out 80's suburbia! If it can happen to Ted Knight, it can happen to you.

Thankfully representations of gays have ditched the fear-mongering and stereotypes...

ZNM7SV8uCjo

Oh wait...

Hopefully no one watched this show when it was on, but I caught 10 minutes and Rappaport's character was essentially created from some horrifying think tank of tea-partying Midwesterners.

Adding this show to the mix - one of the whitest shows of the last 5 years for sure.

Ezee E
10-28-2010, 01:56 AM
The correct answer is 5. :)

DavidSeven
10-28-2010, 02:59 AM
You know, I don't think there's anything so "white" about Friends, Roseanne, and Two and a Half Men besides the all white cast. I guess I can't nail it down, but the situations in those shows don't seem as limited to the white experience. Roseanne specifically seems like it was trying to break the mold of upper-middle class, white family sitcoms, and I can't name a thing about it that strikes me as "white." I mean, I can see Golden Girls (four unrelated elderly women living together probably isn't a culturally universal concept) and Family Ties (show is centered around a young white republican teenager). That being said, I don't know how to qualify this shit.

What I can tell you is that I know non-whites definitely watched and enjoyed Home Improvement, Saved By the Bell, Full-House, Everybody Loves Raymond, Wonder Years, and Will & Grace.

Ezee E
10-28-2010, 03:02 AM
You know, I don't think there's anything so "white" about Friends, Roseanne, and Two and a Half Men besides the all white cast. I guess I can't nail it down, but the situations in those shows don't seem as limited to the white experience. Roseanne specifically seems like it was trying to break the mold of upper-middle class, white family sitcoms, and I can't name a thing about it that strikes me as "white." I mean, I can see Golden Girls (four unrelated elderly women living together probably isn't a culturally universal concept) and Family Ties (show is centered around a young white republican teenager). That being said, I don't know how to qualify this shit.

What I can tell you is that I know non-whites definitely watched and enjoyed Home Improvement, Saved By the Bell, Full-House, Everybody Loves Raymond, Wonder Years, and Will & Grace.
Saved by the Bell and the Wonder Years should really be part of that teen niche like 90210 in my opinion.

DavidSeven
10-28-2010, 03:05 AM
I'm not white and have a lot of non-white friends (though I grew up in the 'burbs so I don't know if that makes me "white" for all intents and purposes). Anyway, you know what show my non-white friends never watched or talked about? The Adventures of Pete and Pete. Rewatching the intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnqeeBdGhh4) confirms whiteness. (Though I remember personally enjoying the show).

Derek
10-28-2010, 03:21 AM
You know, I don't think there's anything so "white" about Friends, Roseanne, and Two and a Half Men besides the all white cast. I guess I can't nail it down, but the situations in those shows don't seem as limited to the white experience. Roseanne specifically seems like it was trying to break the mold of upper-middle class, white family sitcoms, and I can't name a thing about it that strikes me as "white." I mean, I can see Golden Girls (four unrelated elderly women living together probably isn't a culturally universal concept) and Family Ties (show is centered around a young white republican teenager). That being said, I don't know how to qualify this shit.

I agree with you about Friends and Roseanne, particularly the latter. I included both because they're widely seen and I didn't want to prevent other from voting for them. I, however, will not be.


What I can tell you is that I know non-whites definitely watched and enjoyed Home Improvement, Saved By the Bell, Full-House, Everybody Loves Raymond, Wonder Years, and Will & Grace.

You can't convince me that Full House isn't one hell of a white show. HI, FH & Raymond are all more recent shows, so I imagine it's impossible to find any popular primetime sitcom from the last 10 years that only white people watched. Will & Grace addressed issues of sexuality and I'm pretty sure homosexuals of all races enjoyed it...not to suggest straight people didn't, but I never met any.


Saved by the Bell and the Wonder Years should really be part of that teen niche like 90210 in my opinion.

Wonders Years is awesome and certainly in a different class than the other teen shows I mentioned. Probably more adults than teens watched it when it was on.

Saved By the Bell is borderline since it originally aired Saturday mornings and reruns always came on afterschool, yet there is something quintessentially white, middle class capitalist about Zach Morris. Despite the multi-racial cast, everyone ultimately deferred to him and he was presented as the white male teen fantasy. I'll let that one in since it's a sit-com and closer to the spirit of other shows on the list than the 90210, etc. I'm not including.

Acapelli
10-28-2010, 05:26 AM
non-white people love full house. really, anything that ran on nick and nite could be excluded from this thread

Derek
10-28-2010, 05:47 AM
non-white people love full house. really, anything that ran on nick and nite could be excluded from this thread

You can convince me of many things, but not that Full House should be taken off the ballot. It probably won't be in my own top 10 if that makes you feel any better.

And dude, Nick at Nite aired Bewitched and I Dream of Jeannie, which were wet dreams for white male suburbanites in the 60s. Just because non-whites may enjoy these shows in syndication doesn't necessarily mean they should be excluded. I mean, those two don't fit the time period, but the point remains the same.

Henry Gale
10-28-2010, 06:36 AM
Yeah, I was going to say earlier, I can't think of anyone I've known my age that didn't grow up with and love Saved By The Bell. No matter what ethnicity or taste they have otherwise.

Now, it may just be a generational thing (being single digit ages in the '90s), but it seems like it was that, Fresh Prince and Boy Meets World that they used to constantly have in syndication or Saturday mornings after cartoons to make us feel like we were older and cooler than we were.

Then there's this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr6Y6kOo5rY).

Ezee E
10-28-2010, 06:41 AM
I'd still like to hear a defense for Arrested Development.

MadMan
10-28-2010, 07:44 AM
This thread is one of the reasons why the TV forum rightfully exists.

Mr. Pink
10-28-2010, 08:47 AM
My picks for whitest shows ever are already on the list (Silver Spoons, Family Ties, Charles in Charge, etc.), but props for being so thorough. Just the Ten of Us and My Two Dads are a little obscure but incredibly white.

Dawson's Creek should definitely be on there. California Dreams also had a mixed cast, but even the non-white people acted really white.

Kurosawa Fan
10-28-2010, 12:27 PM
I'd still like to hear a defense for Arrested Development.

Hipsters aren't always white. Hipsters love Arrested Development.

I'll throw Married... With Children out there for discussion. I can't decide either way.

Ezee E
10-28-2010, 03:12 PM
It feels weird to be saying if "whites only watched this" or "Yeah, um... when I was in high school, it seemed like all the Mexicans watched reruns of Married With Children.

But yeah...

DavidSeven
10-28-2010, 10:52 PM
Artificial wholesomeness seems like a defining characteristic of a lot of, um, white culture. I mean, if I had to be racist and stereotype white people with one degrading stereotype, it'd be that many of them come off incredibly fake in their impossible cheeriness and wholesomeness. It just seems like a characteristic you don't see in any other race, and if you do, that individual is quickly labeled "white washed".

This is why I don't think shows like Arrested Development or Married with Children would apply.

[ETM]
10-28-2010, 10:57 PM
Why is Frasier on the list, and Cheers isn't?

DavidSeven
10-28-2010, 10:58 PM
;296595']Why is Frasier on the list, and Cheers isn't?

Personally, I don't think either should be.

[ETM]
10-28-2010, 11:01 PM
Personally, I don't think either should be.

Well, the more I think about the subject, the thread idea makes less sense.

Watashi
10-28-2010, 11:21 PM
Lois and Clark belongs on here.

Kurosawa Fan
10-29-2010, 12:27 AM
Lois and Clark belongs on here.

Good call.

Derek
10-29-2010, 02:43 AM
Dawson's Creek should definitely be on there. California Dreams also had a mixed cast, but even the non-white people acted really white.

If I allow Saved By the Bell, I'll have to allow California Dreams, which was basically an even whiter version of the former.

I already explained why Dawson's Creek and other niche teen shows (90210, One Tree Hill, etc) are excluded.


Hipsters aren't always white. Hipsters love Arrested Development.

Yeah, the show's WAY too self-aware to fit what I'm looking for here. I don't really see what makes it unique to the white experience, so I'd have to here an argument for it to even consider including it.



I'll throw Married... With Children out there for discussion. I can't decide either way.

I'll put Married... in there to add another familiar show, but I don't think it fits. If anything, the show takes repeated shots at whiteness and the supposed necessity of the family unit. Kinda deconstructed all the perfect tv families that populated most/all sitcoms before it.


Personally, I don't think either should be.

Cheers never struck me as a particularly white show - working class male, sure, but nothing distinctly white about it aside from the fact that it starred an all-white cast.

Completely agree with your forced wholesomeness/cheeriness description. You get the spirit of the thread. :)

Frasier is a bit more white, but I've said before why it's not quite as good a pick as some would think.


Lois and Clark belongs on here.

Yeah, Dean Cain oozed so much whiteness in that show that I don't think anyone would believe he's part Asian anymore.

Mr. Pink
10-29-2010, 10:53 AM
If I allow Saved By the Bell, I'll have to allow California Dreams, which was basically an even whiter version of the former.

I already explained why Dawson's Creek and other niche teen shows (90210, One Tree Hill, etc) are excluded.


Ah, okay. I glanced over that post initially.

I recently re-watched (and enjoyed) California Dreams ('cause I'm white), but the theme song alone warrants its inclusion on the list. So white.

Qrazy
10-29-2010, 07:42 PM
Derek why don't you spend a little less time being racist and a little more time watching Aleksei German films. Hrmmmm?

D_Davis
10-29-2010, 08:33 PM
I'd argue against the inclusion of Married With Children and Rosanne because although they feature only white characters, the characters they portray are not the ideal white, middle-to-upper class, successful, wholesome stereotypes that so many of the other white shows portray. You know how people often joked around that Bill Clinton was the first "black" president? I might argue that both of the above-mentioned shows are more "black," or at least more urban, than "white." Hey, they are at least more "black" than any of Tyler Perry's shows.

Derek
10-29-2010, 09:14 PM
Derek why don't you spend a little less time being racist and a little more time watching Aleksei German films. Hrmmmm?

But it's so much fun being racist against white people. Plus it builds up cred, so I can make jokes about Mexicans and Asians later on.

Which AG film should I check out next? I'll KG one up and watch before the end of the year just for you.


I'd argue against the inclusion of Married With Children and Rosanne because although they feature only white characters, the characters they portray are not the ideal white, middle-to-upper class, successful, wholesome stereotypes that so many of the other white shows portray. You know how people often joked around that Bill Clinton was the first "black" president? I might argue that both of the above-mentioned shows are more "black," or at least more urban, than "white." Hey, they are at least more "black" than any of Tyler Perry's shows.

I completely agree. I was on the fence with including them, only doing so to have recognizable titles, but you've convinced me to give 'em the axe.

Acapelli
11-01-2010, 05:49 PM
bored to death is extremely white

Qrazy
11-01-2010, 06:40 PM
But it's so much fun being racist against white people. Plus it builds up cred, so I can make jokes about Mexicans and Asians later on.

Which AG film should I check out next? I'll KG one up and watch before the end of the year just for you.



I completely agree. I was on the fence with including them, only doing so to have recognizable titles, but you've convinced me to give 'em the axe.

Which have you seen again?

Henry Gale
11-01-2010, 09:35 PM
bored to death is extremely white

The funny thing for me is that even though as a show (its cast, writing, setting) there's no doubt that Bored To Death is as white as it gets, at the same time, it (along with It's Always Sunny and Eastbound & Down) is the sort of thing that seems to have just as many (if not more) non-white fans amongst the people I know, despite how it may come across as a show. I'd definitely attribute some of that to Bored's cast connections to Hangover instead of Rushmore or Becker, though.

But then again, I'm from Toronto, apparently one of the more multicultural cities in the world. So I feel like I sometimes don't have the best barometer for these sort of discussions.

Winston*
11-01-2010, 09:39 PM
Antiques Roadshow?

Acapelli
11-02-2010, 08:50 PM
Antiques Roadshow?
stoners of all colors love antiques roadshow