MC Decade Consensus - 1990s

[Spinal]

Submit your ten favorite eligible films from this decade and in a week I will give you a top twenty.

The point system is as follows

1st Place-10 points
2nd Place- 8 points
3rd Place- 7 points
4th Place- 6 points
5th Place- 5 points
6th Place - 4 points
7th Place - 3.5 points
8th Place - 3 points
9th Place - 2.5 points
10th Place - 2 points

As you can see, the scale is weighted to give your top film a little bonus and to make sure that the difference between a 6th place and a 10th place is not too drastic.

Ten eligible films must be listed. Please make any edits by making a new post and telling me what changes have been made.

PLEASE READ:
In order to be eligible for this vote, a film must have placed in the top 10 for the Yearly Consensus Poll for the year it was released. Honorable mention films are not eligible. Since you only have ten slots to fill, I want you to focus on films that have a realistic chance of making the final list, so that we may achieve the most accurate results possible. My goal is to increase the influence of your vote. Please feel free to post an additional list that reflects your "true" top films of the decade. However, only lists with ten eligible films will be counted towards the final poll.

In order to add some suspense to the final results, you may (if you choose) PM your ballot to me instead of posting it in the thread below. Either method of voting will be acceptable. (But please do not do both.) "Secret" ballots will be revealed after the final poll is posted.

You may begin now.

Eligible films
Archangel (Maddin)
Baraka (Fricke)
Barton Fink (Coen)
Beau Travail (Denis)
Beauty and the Beast (Trousdale/Wise)
Before Sunrise (Linklater)
Being John Malkovich (Jonze)
Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson)
Bottle Rocket (W. Anderson)
Boys Don't Cry (Peirce)
Breaking the Waves (Trier)
Chungking Express (Wong)
Close-Up (Kiarostami)
Crash (Cronenberg)
Crumb (Zwigoff)
Cure (K. Kurosawa)
Cyclo (Tran)
Dances with Wolves (Costner)
Days of Being Wild (Wong)
Dazed and Confused (Linklater)
Dead Man (Jarmusch)
Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet)
Ed Wood (Burton)
Edward Scissorhands (Burton)
Election (Payne)
Exotica (Egoyan)
Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
Fargo (Coen)
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Gilliam)
Fight Club (Fincher)
Freeway (Bright)
Fucking Åmål (Moodysson)
Funny Games (Haneke)
Goodfellas (Scorsese)
Groundhog Day (Ramis)
Hana-bi (Kitano)
Hard-Boiled (Woo)
Heat (Mann)
Heavenly Creatures (Jackson)
Husbands and Wives (Allen)
In the Company of Men (LaBute)
Jackie Brown (Tarantino)
Jacob's Ladder (Lyne)
JFK (Stone)
Kikujiro (Kitano)
L.A. Confidential (Hanson)
La Promesse (Dardennes)
Lessons of Darkness (Herzog)
Lone Star (Sayles)
Lost Highway (Lynch)
Magnolia (P.T. Anderson)
Malcolm X (S. Lee)
Metropolitan (Stillman)
Miller's Crossing (Coen)
Naked (Leigh)
Nikita (Besson)
Orlando (Potter)
Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (Berlinger/Sinofsky)
Pleasantville (Ross)
Princess Mononoke (Miyazaki)
Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)
Raise the Red Lantern (Zhang)
Ratcatcher (Ramsay)
Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino)
Run, Lola, Run (Tykwer)
Rushmore (W. Anderson)
Safe (Haynes)
Sátántangó (Tarr)
Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg)
Schindler's List (Spielberg)
Se7en (Fincher)
Secrets and Lies (Leigh)
Short Cuts (Altman)
Sling Blade (Thornton)
Sonatine (Kitano)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (Cameron)
The Big Lebowski (Coen)
The Celebration (Vinterberg)
The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski)
The Nightmare Before Christmas (Selick)
The Piano (Campion)
The Player (Altman)
The Rapture (Tolkin)
The Shawshank Redemption (Darabont)
The Silence of the Lambs (Demme)
The Straight Story (Lynch)
The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan)
The Thin Red Line (Malick)
The Truman Show (Weir)
Three Colors: Blue (Kieslowski)
Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski)
Three Colors: White (Kieslowski)
Toy Story (Lasseter)
Trainspotting (Boyle)
Twelve Monkeys (Gilliam)
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Lynch)
Underground (Kusturica)
Unforgiven (Eastwood)
Waiting for Guffman (Guest)
Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (Park)
Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)
Wild at Heart (Lynch)

[Spinal]

1. Breaking the Waves
2. The Sweet Hereafter
3. Heavenly Creatures
4. Boys Don't Cry
5. Fargo
6. The Celebration
7. Orlando
8. Run Lola Run
9. Raise the Red Lantern
10. Fucking Amal

[Spinal]

Sorry that the "The ..." films are not alphabetized properly. Silly Excel.

[soitgoes...]

Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson)
Three Colors: Blue (Kieslowski)
Raise the Red Lantern (Zhang)
Fucking Åmål (Moodysson)
Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski)
Breaking the Waves (Trier)
The Big Lebowski (Coen)
Schindler's List (Spielberg)
Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (Park)
Cyclo (Tran)

[Yxklyx]

1. Magnolia
2. Lost Highway
3. Heavenly Creatures
4. Run Lola Run
5. Being John Malkovich
6. Groundhog Day
7. Se7en
8. The Nightmare Before Christmas
9. Three Colors: Red
10. Barton Fink

Too bad Velvet Goldmine wasn't eligible .

[Spinal]

Also, PM me if you would like to be reponsible for the counting and presentation of this or another of the Decade Consensus threads. You may follow my example or take it in another direction. All I ask is that you put some effort into it and that the presentation is cleanly formatted.

[DavidSeven]

01. Exotica (Egoyan)
02. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)
03. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson)
04. The Piano (Campion)
05. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
06. The Celebration (Vinterberg)
07. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan)
08. Fargo (Coen)
09. Days of Being Wild (Wong)
10. In the Company of Men (LaBute)

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'll get back to this after I finish watching the second half of Satantango.

[Adam]

1. Rushmore
2. Miller's Crossing
3. Chungking Express
4. Naked
5. Before Sunrise
6. Dead Man
7. Being John Malkovich
8. Pulp Fiction
9. Short Cuts
0. Three Colors: Red

[B-side]

1. Breaking the Waves (Trier)
2. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
3. Dead Man (Jarmusch)
4. Naked (Leigh)
5. Secrets and Lies (Leigh)
6. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
7. The Celebration (Vinterberg)
8. Baraka (Fricke)
9. Chungking Express (Wong)
10. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson)

[Watashi]

1. Whisper of the Heart
2. The Thin Red Line
3. Pleasantville
4. Chungking Express
5. The Shawshank Redemption
6. Being John Malkovich
7. Princess Mononoke
8. Three Colors: Red
9. The Sweet Hereafter
10. Se7en

[Mysterious Dude]

1. Fight Club
2. Fargo
3. Funny Games
4. In the Company of Men
5. Schindler's List
6. Baraka
7. Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers
8. Twelve Monkeys
9. The Silence of the Lambs
10. Dead Man

[Dillard]

1. Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski)
2. Lone Star (Sayles)
3. Groundhog Day (Ramis)
4. Chungking Express (Wong)
5. Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (Park)
6. The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski)
7. Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)
8. Wild at Heart (Lynch)
9. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
10. Bottle Rocket (W. Anderson)

[Melville]

1. Lost Highway (Lynch)
2. Schindler's List (Spielberg)
3. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
4. Unforgiven (Eastwood)
5. Rushmore (W. Anderson)
6. Crumb (Zwigoff)
7. Boys Don't Cry (Peirce)
8. The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski)
9. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan)
10. Fargo (Coen)

HMs: Close-Up (Kiarostami), Princess Mononoke (Miyazaki), Exotica (Egoyan), Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)

My true list would have Buffalo 66 and Alone. Life Wastes Andy Hardy on it.

[StanleyK]

1. The Thin Red Line (Terrence Malick)
2. Fargo (Ethan Coen, Joel Coen)
3. Schindler's List (Steven Spielberg)
4. Fucking Åmål (Lukas Moodysson)
5. The Big Lebowski (Ethan Coen, Joel Coen)
6. Hana-Bi (Takeshi Kitano)
7. Boogie Nights (Paul Thomas Anderson)
8. Magnolia (Paul Thomas Anderson)
9. Terminator 2: Judgment Day (James Cameron)
10. Pulp Fiction (Quentin Tarantino)

Didn't qualify: Rosetta (Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Luc Dardenne), The Virgin Suicides (Sofia Coppola)

Need to rewatch: Eyes Wide Shut (Stanley Kubrick), Rushmore (Wes Anderson), Unforgiven (Clint Eastwood)

[MacGuffin]

1. Fargo
2. Beau travail
3. The Big Lebowski
4. Rushmore
5. Dead Man
6. Sátántangó
7. Cure
8. Kikujiro
9. Before Sunrise
10. Breaking the Waves

[B-side]

My true list would have Buffalo 66 on it.

http://i814.photobucket.com/albums/zz70/SalvadorDali_2010/vlcsnap-2010-07-11-03h58m36s145.png

Love it.

[Russ]

1. Eyes Wide Shut
2. Crumb
3. Breaking the Waves
4. Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me
5. Lessons of Darkness
6. The Big Lebowski
7. The Straight Story
8. Pulp Fiction
9. The Rapture
10. The Silence of the Lambs

[Boner M]

Yeah, how on Earth did B66 not qualify? It's not like '98 was a year of riches (Pleasantville LOL).

[transmogrifier]

Yeah, how on Earth did B66 not qualify? It's not like '98 was a year of riches (Pleasantville LOL).

Cos it's kind of boring and overrated?

[Boner M]

Cos it's kind of boring and overrated?On the contrary, it is the films you enjoy that are boring and overrated!

[Killed_by_Smalls]

1. The Celebration
2. Lost Highway
3. Pulp Fiction
4. Fargo
5. Se7en
6. Magnolia
7. The Big Lebowski
8. Being John Malkovich
9. Exotica
10. Heavenly Creatures

Just Missed: Red
Ineligible: Bad Boy Bubby

[Ezee E]

1. Goodfellas
2. Boogie Nights
3. Eyes Wide Shut
4. JFK
5. Pulp Fiction
6. Barton Fink
7. Jackie Brown
8. Magnolia
9. Groundhog Day
10. Saving Private Ryan

If I pasted all the films again, it'd probably end up completely different each time.

[Spinal]

Yeah, how on Earth did B66 not qualify? It's not like '98 was a year of riches (Pleasantville LOL).

It finished tied for #11 in that poll. 3 points out of the money.

[Raiders]

1. Safe (Haynes, 1995)
2. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan, 1997)
3. Days of Being Wild (Wong, 1991)
4. Dead Man (Jarmusch, 1995)
5. The Thin Red Line (Malick, 1998)
6. Exotica (Egoyan, 1994)
7. Underground (Kusturica, 1995)
8. Ratcatcher (Ramsay, 1999)
9. Groundhog Day (Ramis, 1993)
10. Hana-bi (Kitano, 1997)

[transmogrifier]

On the contrary, it is the films you enjoy that are boring and overrated!

Interesting point, though I have been regularly informed that my tastes are at odds with the prevailing winds of popular opinion here at Match Cut, and therefore, by definition, the films I like cannot be overrated.

QED, mofo!

[Boner M]

Interesting point, though I have been regularly informed that my tastes are at odds with the prevailing winds of popular opinion here at Match Cut, and therefore, by definition, the films I like cannot be overrated.

QED, mofo!
YOUR FACE is at odds with the prevailing winds of popular opinion!

[transmogrifier]

YOUR FACE is at odds with the prevailing winds of popular opinion!

The qualities, or lack thereof, of my face in no way pertain to the shallowness and boringosity of Buffalo '66. That said, you suck.

[Spinal]

Man, I'm so glad we're not at RT any more. Remember how juvenile that site got sometimes?

[transmogrifier]

Man, I'm so glad we're not at RT any more. Remember how juvenile that site got sometimes?

Tell me about it.

[Boner M]

Man, I'm so glad we're not at RT any more. Remember how juvenile that site got sometimes?
Remember how juvenile YOUR MOM got sometimes?

Sorry.

[Watashi]

Pleasantville is better than most of the movies on that list (hence my #3).

[B-side]

Man, I'm so glad we're not at RT any more. Remember how juvenile that site got sometimes?

I was gonna respond with something remarkably similar to what Boner just did in the interim between me quoting you and the page actually showing up to add my text, so... yeah. Cool story, me.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Shut up trans, Buffalo 66 is awesome.

[transmogrifier]

Shut up trans, Buffalo 66 is awesome.

Charming. Attracted to sleaze, you say?

[eternity]

1. Ed Wood
2. Boogie Nights
3. The Big Lebowski
4. The Player
5. Fight Club
6. Rushmore
7. Election
8. Miller's Crossing
9. Lost Highway
10. Fucking Amal

[Watashi]

Buffalo 66 makes me never want to visit Buffalo.

[Bosco B Thug]

1. Cure
2. The Thin Red Line
3. Naked
4. Three Colors: Blue
5. Breaking the Waves
6. Safe
7. Heavenly Creatures
8. Short Cuts
9. Fight Club
10. Rushmore

EDIT: Forgot Safe, mourned Rushmore, so have decided to snub The Piano for some reason.

[StanleyK]

Also, PM me if you would like to be reponsible for the counting and presentation of this or another of the Decade Consensus threads. You may follow my example or take it in another direction. All I ask is that you put some effort into it and that the presentation is cleanly formatted.

I'm up for, like, any of them.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Charming. Attracted to sleaze, you say?

Better that than foolhardy wrongness, but yes, yes I am.

[Boner M]

Man, the 90's was a pretty sweet movie decade.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Man, the 90's was a pretty sweet movie decade.

Yep. Better than the 80s or 00s.

[baby doll]

What, no Basic Instinct?! This is bullshit, man.

Ten Eligible Films:

1. Breaking the Waves (Lars von Trier, 1996)
2. Dead Man (Jim Jarmusch, 1995)
3. La Promesse (Jean-Pierre and Luc Dardenne, 1996)
4. Exotica (Atom Egoyan, 1994)
5. Chungking Express (Wong Kar-wai, 1994)
6. The Thin Red Line (Terrence Malick, 1998)
7. Rushmore (Wes Anderson, 1998)
8. Trois couleurs: Rouge (Krzyzstof Kieslowski, 1994)
9. Crumb (Terry Zwigoff, 1994)
10. Cyclo (Tran Anh Hung, 1995)

Ten Ineligible Films:

Les Amants du Pont Neuf (Leos Carax, 1991)
La Cérémonie (Claude Chabrol, 1995)
Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks, 1991)
L'humanité (Bruno Dumont, 1999)
Irma Vep (Olivier Assayas, 1996)
The Neon Bible (Terence Davies, 1995)
The Puppet Master (Hou Hsiao-hsien, 1993)
Summer of Sam (Spike Lee, 1999)
Wayne's World (Penelope Spheeris, 1992)
The Wind Will Carry Us (Abbas Kiarostami, 1999)

[Weeping_Guitar]

01. Rushmore
02. Miller's Crossing
03. Three Colors: Red
04. The Big Lebowski
05. The Double Life of Veronique
06. The Nightmare Before Christmas
07. L.A. Confidential
08. Metropolitan
09. JFK
10. Schindler's List

[Boner M]

1. Beau Travail (Denis)
2. Sátántangó (Tarr)
3. Naked (Leigh)
4. Lost Highway (Lynch)
5. Being John Malkovich (Jonze)
6. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
7. Cure (Kurosawa)
8. Heat (Mann)
9. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
10. Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)

Could've easily made it depending on mood: Goodfellas, Exotica, Dead Man, Safe, Reservoir Dogs, Ed Wood, La Promesse

Full list'd probably have: What Happened Was..., Buffalo '66, La vie de Jésus, Bad Boy Bubby

[Duncan]

1. Naked (Leigh)
2. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
3. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
4. Beau Travail (Denis)
5. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
6. Lessons of Darkness (Herzog)
7. Lost Highway (Lynch)
8. Close-Up (Kiarostami)
9. Exotica (Egoyan)
10. The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski)

Naked might be benefiting from a recent re-watch.

[Boner M]

Duncan's list wins.

[Raiders]

Could've easily made it depending on mood: ...Exotica, Dead Man, Safe...

Then your current mood sucks.

[Pop Trash]

1. Pulp Fiction
2. The Sweet Hereafter
3. Safe
4. Paradise Lost
5. Schindler's List
6. The Silence of the Lambs
7. The Shawshank Redemption
8. Before Sunrise
9. Groundhog Day
10. Terminator 2

Tough, but that's a nice, diverse list. I'm tempted to vote for the better Coen Brothers' films to thwart the Lebowski votes, but nah, I'm cool.

[Boner M]

Then your current mood sucks.
I blame trans.

[baby doll]

I'm tempted to vote for the better Coen Brothers' films to thwart the Lebowski votesIt's been too long since I watched Barton Fink.

Speaking of The Big Lebowski and its intense popularity, my guess is that none of the films in the top ten will pass the Bechdel Test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLF6sAAMb4s). (With the possible exception of Exotica, I don't think any of the films I voted for pass the test either.) I'm not saying that it's a bad movie (The Big Lebowski, that is, but you could substitute any other film likely to make our collective top ten: Pulp Fiction, Rushmore, The Shawshank Redemption); I just think it's worth noting that, first of all, as the skirt in the video argues, the film industry systematically caters to me, and secondly, that the films which become incredibly popular (not only every Coen brothers movie, but The Godfather, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and Jackass just to name a few) are films in which women are of only peripheral importance to the plot.

[B-side]

I just think it's worth noting that, first of all, as the skirt in the video argues, the film industry systematically caters to me, and secondly, that the films which become incredibly popular (not only every Coen brothers movie, but The Godfather, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, and Jackass just to name a few) are films in which women are of only peripheral importance to the plot.

Some brilliant insight.

[Adam]

I bet Naked will make the top ten. That passes your test, babydoll

[baby doll]

Some brilliant insight.I'm sensing some sarcasm here.

[baby doll]

I bet Naked will make the top ten. That passes your test, babydollMike Leigh saves the day.

[B-side]

I'm sensing some sarcasm here.

Not at all! I'm not being down on you, but how much intellect does it take to comprehend that cinema is largely geared toward men and the women that enjoy similar films?

[Pop Trash]

You know, I actually agree with you Baby Doll. After Pulp Fiction, I was conscious to not litter my list with the typical violent, snarky, dude/bro movies that tend to wind up decorating the walls of college dorms.

[baby doll]

Not at all! I'm not being down on you, but how much intellect does it take to comprehend that cinema is largely geared toward men and the women that enjoy similar films?Probably none at all, but I think it's something that should be talked about more often, especially when we're talking about why certain films become classics and others are marginalized.

[Spinal]

Are you more comfortable when complaining about something? I'm not irritated, just kind of amused. Dropping the Bechdel Test in out of nowhere? All right then.

[DavidSeven]

Man, the 90's was a pretty sweet movie decade.

Gotta agree. Certainly creams cinema of the aughts in every conceivable dimension.

[Spinal]

But you did make me realize that I voted for three films that focus on a lesbian coupling. And that's not even counting Orlando. Hmmmm.

[B-side]

Probably none at all, but I think it's something that should be talked about more often, especially when we're talking about why certain films become classics and others are marginalized.

It's a discussion worth having, though I'm sure it's been done to death. Additionally, when we get into these kinds of discussions about whose viewpoint isn't being expressed enough, there are much more desperate cases than this one.

[soitgoes...]

Ghost doesn't pass this test, but Boogie Nights does.

[baby doll]

Are you more comfortable when complaining about something? I'm not irritated, just kind of amused. Dropping the Bechdel Test in out of nowhere? All right then.I don't think it's completely out of nowhere, since The Big Lebowski, which seems poised to take a top five slot on our list, is a movie practically stewing in testosterone. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out why a movie about a bunch of guys sitting in a bowling alley calling each other "dude" resonates with so many men.

But in response to your question, I think of it more as questioning things than complaining. Why are this year's consensus favorites, Inception and The Social Network, movies by, for, and about tech geeks with lame-ass female characters?

[DavidSeven]

Inception passed the test according the site (http://bechdeltest.com/). Not really sure how you narrow it down to being for, by or about tech-geeks either. Also, Ariadne is probably the most well-rounded character in the entire film even if she functions as somewhat of a plot device. Even Mal is a much deeper character than Arthur, Eames, Saito, or Yusef who are all quite one dimensional in their archetypal roles by comparison.

As for The Social Network, well, that's already been accused of being sexist (http://www.deadline.com/2010/10/aaron-sorkin-on-social-network-women/) so it's too easy a target.

[kopello]

1. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
2. Sátántangó (Tarr)
3. Princess Mononoke (Miyazaki)
4. Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski)
5. Unforgiven (Eastwood)
6. Schindler's List (Spielberg)
7. Heat (Mann)
8. Raise the Red Lantern (Zhang)
9. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
10. Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (Lynch)

Veronique may deserve a spot here but I really need to rewatch it. Also I feel bad for having Lebowski all the way at number 9, considering it's probably my favorite comedy. Too many good films!

[Lazlo]

1. Schindler's List
2. The Shawshank Redemption
3. JFK
4. Princess Mononoke
5. Unforgiven
6. Pulp Fiction
7. The Silence of the Lambs
8. Saving Private Ryan
9. Eyes Wide Shut
10. Fargo

[MadMan]

My list sucks. But there it is.

1. Goodfellas (1990)
2. Pulp Fiction (1994)
3. Fargo (1996)
4. Rushmore (1998)
5. Ed Wood (1994)
6. Fight Club (1999)
7. JFK (1991)
8. LA Confidential (1997)
9. Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (1993)
10. Unforgiven (1992)

HM: Too many to list

[Grouchy]

1. Eyes Wide Shut
2. Goodfellas
3. The Big Lebowski
4. Pulp Fiction
5. Hana-Bi
6. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
7. Terminator 2: Judgment Day
8. Underground
9. Hard Boiled
10. Three Colors: Blue

The Insider not elligible? Weird.

[Stay Puft]

1. Hana-bi (Kitano)
2. Chungking Express (Wong)
3. Dead Man (Jarmusch)
4. Exotica (Egoyan)
5. Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski)
6. Groundhog Day (Ramis)
7. Cyclo (Tran)
8. Cure (K. Kurosawa)
9. Lost Highway (Lynch)
10. Raise the Red Lantern (Zhang)

[Mr. Pink]

1) Naked
2) Pulp Fiction
3) Dazed and Confused
4) Fargo
5) The Straight Story
6) Goodfellas
7) Terminator 2
8) Run Lola Run
9) Hana-bi
10) Before Sunrise


Damn -- so I guess Red was the good color, then?

[soitgoes...]

Damn -- so I guess Red was the good color, then?Which is weird because I always thought that the love for Red and Blue were split rather evenly. I love them both, but it seems I'm in the minority for liking Blue more.

[Raiders]

Which is weird because I always thought that the love for Red and Blue were split rather evenly. I love them both, but it seems I'm in the minority for liking Blue more.

Solidarity, brother.

[Eleven]

1. Rushmore
2. The Double Life of Veronique
3. Close-Up
4. Safe
5. Cure
6. Crash
7. Groundhog Day
8. Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers
9. Jackie Brown
10. Raise the Red Lantern

HMs: The Rapture, The Big Lebowski, White.

Ineligible: A Moment of Innocence, The Puppetmaster, Porco Rosso, A Brighter Summer Day, To Sleep with Anger.

[Fezzik]

I wasn't as into films back in the '90s as I am now, so I am sure there are some on this list that make you guys think I'm crazy (or maybe you already did, I don't know), but here they are:


Schindler's List (1993, Spielberg)
Chungking Express (1994, Wong)
Groundhog Day (1995, Ramis)
Fight Club (1999, Fincher)
Beauty and the Beast (1991, Trousdale/Wise)
The Truman Show (1998, Weir)
Before Sunrise (1995, Linklater)
Goodfellas (1990, Scorsese)
Pulp Fiction (1994, Tarantino)
The Shawshank Redemption (1994, Darabont)



Favorites not on the list: Jerry Maguire, Searching for Bobby Fischer, Good Will Hunting

[Raiders]

I know what you mean. I wasn't unfortunately very big into film in the 1930s so my list for that decade will probably look strange too.

[Spinal]

I know what you mean. I wasn't unfortunately very big into film in the 1930s so my list for that decade will probably look strange too.

Times were hard. I remember that after the stock market crashed in '29 I had to cancel my Netflix subscription.

[dreamdead]

Denis's film got shafted as I was ranking these, but otherwise happy with the list.


1. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
2. Naked (Leigh)
3. Hana-bi (Kitano)
4. Breaking the Waves (Trier)
5. The Piano (Campion)
6. Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)
7. Exotica (Egoyan)
8. The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski)
9. Days of Being Wild (Wong)
10 Cyclo (Tran)

[Raiders]

Denis's film got shafted, but otherwise happy with the list.

Beau travail? It's eligible.

[dreamdead]

Beau travail? It's eligible.

Hmm, I'm bad with the English today. I meant that sentence to suggest that it was #11 in my list, but I couldn't push it into the top ten. I could probably watch that top ten for a month and be sated, though. What a great decade.

[Raiders]

Hmm, I'm bad with the English today. I meant that sentence to suggest that it was #11 in my list, but I couldn't push it into the top ten. I could probably watch that top ten for a month and be sated, though. What a great decade.

I considered for a second that this is what you meant, but I had never seen someone use "shafted" for their own list.

I think any decade list of only 10 films will always leave this feeling. I mean, ten years and only ten films. That's some tough shit. Spinal is a mean, mean dude.

[Dukefrukem]

I don't like how the Matrix is not on this list...also lame that Beauty & the Beast is on but the Lion King isn't... (end vent)

1. The Shawshank Redemption
2. Pulp Fiction
3. Unforgiven
4. L.A. Confidential
5. Terminator 2
6. Fargo
7. Saving Private Ryan
8. Se7en
9. Being John Malkovich
10. Rushmore

[Spinal]

OK, I'll go ahead and tabulate this one since I've already got at least one PM ballot.

Then we'll do ...

StanleyK 80s
Grouchy 70s
Raiders 60s

OK?

[StanleyK]

OK, I'll go ahead and tabulate this one since I've already got at least one PM ballot.

Then we'll do ...

StanleyK 80s
Grouchy 70s
Raiders 60s

OK?

I can't promise I'll have computer access this weekend, but I guarantee I can do at least the 60's.

[Dillard]

Solidarity, brother.Yeah, need to get one of the Three Colors films into the top 20. It looks like it's the only Kieslowski film that stands a chance based on how people are voting.

[Spinal]

I can't promise I'll have computer access this weekend, but I guarantee I can do at least the 60's.

You're confusing me.

[StanleyK]

You're confusing me.

Aren't we doing the 80's next?



Oh, unless you mean this:


I'm up for, like, any of them.

In which case, sorry, something came up yesterday.

[Raiders]

I'll swap with him. He can take the 60s, I'll do the 80s.

[Spinal]

Aren't we doing the 80's next?



Yeah, but not for another week. Not sure what that has to do with this weekend. But whatever, you and Raiders can switch.

[baby doll]

Inception passed the test according the site (http://bechdeltest.com/). Not really sure how you narrow it down to being for, by or about tech-geeks either. Also, Ariadne is probably the most well-rounded character in the entire film even if she functions as somewhat of a plot device. Even Mal is a much deeper character than Arthur, Eames, Saito, or Yusef who are all quite one dimensional in their archetypal roles by comparison.

As for The Social Network, well, that's already been accused of being sexist (http://www.deadline.com/2010/10/aaron-sorkin-on-social-network-women/) so it's too easy a target.Fair 'nuff, although there still strikes me as something fairly laddish about Inception (i.e., "And I was like, bitch, I just bought the airline"), not to mention Nolan's work as a whole (what is Batman, if not a fantasy for control freaks?). And when you look at commercial filmmakers who are considered artists, particularly in the mainstream, it's always names like Nolan, Fincher, the Coens, Eastwood, Scorsese, Tarantino, etc., etc. (Sofia Coppola is an exception. Of course, she's often erroneously perceived as an indie filmmaker.) The weird thing is that they almost seem to be regarded as artists in proportion to the extent that their films are macho dick-measuring contests.

[Fezzik]

I know what you mean. I wasn't unfortunately very big into film in the 1930s so my list for that decade will probably look strange too.

Oh hush :P

I just meant that since I started really watching films in the 2000s, I'd naturally be more up on that decade. The other decades are all in catch-up mode.

[Bosco B Thug]

Which is weird because I always thought that the love for Red and Blue were split rather evenly. I love them both, but it seems I'm in the minority for liking Blue more. I have this weird thing against Red. I mean, it's undoubtedly masterful and I like it, but I've noticed most people calling it the best of the three and it's kind of inflamed my prejudice. Blue's less about pontification, and more accessible, and, you know, sometimes that's a good thing. And there's no fancy multi-narrative and schmancy through-the-telephone-wire shot.

[Eleven]

I guess I'm just a White supremacist then.

[Bosco B Thug]

I guess I'm just a White supremacist then. I've seen White. Liked it (of course), don't remember to what extent. I probably will like it more than Red. :D

[StanleyK]

Yeah, but not for another week. Not sure what that has to do with this weekend. But whatever, you and Raiders can switch.

I thought it would be sooner, since you said you're going to start tabulating. I was under the impression the 00's one was also about 3 days, turns out that's just my messed up sense of telling time. The 60's it is, then.

[transmogrifier]

I guess I'm just a White supremacist then.

White > Blue >> Red > good

[Bosco B Thug]

White > Blue >> Red > good After this and Wes Anderson, you're now my new favorite poster! :)

[Ivan Drago]

1. Magnolia
2. Pulp Fiction
3. The Thin Red Line
4. Schindler's List
5. The Truman Show
6. Being John Malkovich
7. Lost Highway
8. Fight Club
9. Ed Wood
10. Boogie Nights

[EyesWideOpen]

1. Eyes Wide Shut
2. Cure
3. Pulp Fiction
4. The Nightmare Before Christmas
5. Rushmore
6. Hana-Bi
7. Fight Club
8. Princess Mononoke
9. Magnolia
10. Beauty and the Beast

[Chac Mool]

From the eligible list:

01. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)
02. Goodfellas (Scorsese)
03. JFK (Stone)
04. Schindler's List (Spielberg)
05. Terminator II: Judgement Day (Cameron)
06. Being John Malkovich (Jonze)
07. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
08. Heat (Mann)
09. Breaking the Waves (Trier)
10. The Thin Red Line (Malick)

Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, JFK and Schindler's List defined the decade -- the most talked-about, acclaimed and (for varied reasons) controversial movies. Having grown up in the '90s, I watched Terminator 2 a couple of times a year on TV. I found it thrilling as a kid, and I find it thrilling now. It's essentially the perfect action movie. Being John Malkovich is the decade's perfect closer, foreshadowing the more ambitious and idiosyncratic early 2000s. Eyes Wide Shut is the last hurrah of one of the century's great artists, starring two of the 90s biggest stars in their best roles. Heat unites two of the century's great actors, while they still gave a damn. Breaking the Waves (criminally low on the list, I now realize) is von Trier's heartrending response to American cinema. The Thin Red Line is the decade's best war movie.

I'm sorry I couldn't include (for ineligibility or lack or space): Baraka (Fricke), Chunking Express (Wong), Days of Being Wild (Wong), The Game (Fincher), Out of Sight (Soderbergh), Life is Beautiful (Benigni), Raise the Red Lantern (Yimou), The Talented Mr. Ripley (Minghella), To Live (Yimou)...

[Boner M]

1. Beau Travail (Denis)
2. Sátántangó (Tarr)
3. Naked (Leigh)
4. Lost Highway (Lynch)
5. Being John Malkovich (Jonze)
6. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
7. Heat (Mann)
8. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
9. Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)
10. Lessons of Darkness (Herzog)

Updated list after rpt viewing of Cure:

1. Beau Travail (Denis)
2. Sátántangó (Tarr)
3. Naked (Leigh)
4. Lost Highway (Lynch)
5. Being John Malkovich (Jonze)
6. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
7. Cure (Kurosawa)
8. Heat (Mann)
9. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
10. Whisper of the Heart (Kondo)

[baby doll]

Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, JFK and Schindler's List defined the decade -- the most talked-about, acclaimed and (for varied reasons) controversial movies.I'm curious: Apart from being talked about and acclaimed (which would make Forrest Gump, Titanic, Saving Private Ryan, and The Matrix equally definitive), how did they define the decade--especially the last three, which are all set in earlier decades? Likewise, although Pulp Fiction is nominally set in the '90s (apart from Bruce Willis' father being killed in Vietnam, there aren't very many historical markers in the film), it's essentially a pastiche of movies from other decades. At best, it popularized certain narrative strategies (multiple story lines, a non-linear structure) and having lots of pop culture references in movie dialogue--and by "popularized," I guess I mean that it convinced studio executives that this sort of thing could turn a profit.

Personally, I'm not sure how any movie could "define" a decade, and assuming that one can, if that's a desirable thing. For starters, if we're using a movie about criminals in Los Angeles to stand in for everything that happened in the '90s, that leaves out most of Los Angeles, to say nothing of the planet in general. Personally, I find it very difficult to think of a '90s movie equivalent to Olivier Assayas' demonlover and Jia Zhang-ke's The World, where the subject of globalization is general enough for both movies to qualify as global statements rather than only being about France or China. The only thing that comes to mind are some of Abbas Kiarostami's films, such as Life, and Nothing More... and The Wind Will Carry Us, where the disparity between affluent filmmakers from the city and the unsophisticated people they encounter in the countryside is extreme enough to serve as a kind of microcosm, showing the divide between the haves and have-nots, which is analogous to the divide between developed nations like the United States and Japan, and less developed ones like Iran (Life, and Nothing More... in particular is about the aftermath of an earthquake in one of the poorest regions in the country).


Breaking the Waves (criminally low on the list, I now realize) is von Trier's heartrending response to American cinema.Okay, you're going to have to explain this one to me, too: How is this film (about the divide between religious dogma and secularism, made by a Dane and set in northern Scotland) a response to American cinema?


I'm sorry I couldn't include (for ineligibility or lack or space): To Live (Yimou)...I haven't seen this, but the book is amazing if you haven't read it.

[Chac Mool]

I'm curious: Apart from being talked about and acclaimed (which would make Forrest Gump, Titanic, Saving Private Ryan, and The Matrix equally definitive), how did they define the decade--especially the last three, which are all set in earlier decades? Likewise, although Pulp Fiction is nominally set in the '90s (apart from Bruce Willis' father being killed in Vietnam, there aren't very many historical markers in the film), it's essentially a pastiche of movies from other decades. At best, it popularized certain narrative strategies (multiple story lines, a non-linear structure) and having lots of pop culture references in movie dialogue--and by "popularized," I guess I mean that it convinced studio executives that this sort of thing could turn a profit.

Well, it's a subjective perception, obviously, but when I look back on '90s cinema, those are the four movies I see. Their critical AND popular reception, nationally and abroad, and their imprint on the public psyche and pop culture dwarfs that of most other movies released in those years. Of the titles you mentioned, Titanic obviously compares, but I don't consider it to be nearly as good, so I didn't include it.

(I also consider those four to be the crowning achievements of some of the '90s best directors.)


Personally, I'm not sure how any movie could "define" a decade, and assuming that one can, if that's a desirable thing. For starters, if we're using a movie about criminals in Los Angeles to stand in for everything that happened in the '90s, that leaves out most of Los Angeles, to say nothing of the planet in general. Personally, I find it very difficult to think of a '90s movie equivalent to Olivier Assayas' demonlover and Jia Zhang-ke's The World, where the subject of globalization is general enough for both movies to qualify as global statements rather than only being about France or China. The only thing that comes to mind are some of Abbas Kiarostami's films, such as Life, and Nothing More... and The Wind Will Carry Us, where the disparity between affluent filmmakers from the city and the unsophisticated people they encounter in the countryside is extreme enough to serve as a kind of microcosm, showing the divide between the haves and have-nots, which is analogous to the divide between developed nations like the United States and Japan, and less developed ones like Iran (Life, and Nothing More... in particular is about the aftermath of an earthquake in one of the poorest regions in the country).

I don't disagree with anything you've said.

I think my answer may disappoint you, but the indended sense was "defined the decade in cinema as I see it."


Okay, you're going to have to explain this one to me, too: How is this film (about the divide between religious dogma and secularism, made by a Dane and set in northern Scotland) a response to American cinema?

Well, it's style is heavily inspired by Dogme95, which is itself a response to the bloated budgets and artificial effects of Hollywood filmmaking. In terms of the plot, I've always seen it as an answer to the tsunami of feel-good love stories to come out in the early-to-mid-90's, in which neurotic men and ditzy women overcome obstacles, often humorously, while traipsing around photogenic settings. In Breaking the Waves, these archetypes are rendered raw and carnal. Jan is stolid, but he obviously has a dark side; Bess is less of a ditz and more of a holy fool. Their love is carnal and damaging instead of saccharine. The setting is the sparse, bleak Scottish countryside. And while the ending shows that love does overcome all, it is by no means happy.


I haven't seen this, but the book is amazing if you haven't read it.

Thanks for the heads-up. The film's great too, nicely poised between Yimou's colorful early stuff and his more realist later movies.

[Dillard]

Pulp Fiction, Goodfellas, JFK and Schindler's List defined the decade -- the most talked-about, acclaimed and (for varied reasons) controversial movies.
I think though that even if you're going to step back from your argument that these films defined the decade by adding a for me, it's helpful to point out that you could also put forward an argument by modifying what you original said in the following way: these films defined the decade for Hollywood film. You could make such an argument for these films as crowning achievements, as you say, of 4 heavyweight Hollywood directors in the '90s. Certainly it would be hard to argue, as Domino says, for any film to define a decade for all of film around the world.

But I also wonder in saying that what we mean by the phrase "define the decade." What assumptions must we use to have an common understanding about this phrase? Perhaps we mean by this phrase that such decade-defining films would be making a statement about culture (ie: you saying these films were controversial in their time, and domino mentioning examples of films that expose socio-political realities and problems), and thereby, through engaging with the statement these films are making, we have become more aware. But more aware of what? How films engage with culture? The pressing issues that our culture faces? The emergence of a globalized culture?

It seems to me that one problem with the idea of a decade-defining film is that we're shooting at a moving target. Using some of the assumptions that I list above, one could say that how one imagines the socio-political realities and problems of a decade would change as one gains more perspective on a decade with the passage of time (as more information has been revealed and as the decade has been interpreted by historians and others). Or, with the passage of time comes the possibility of forgetfulness, of histories becoming more obscured by interpretations of interpretations. Suffice it to say, with a changing perspective on what defines a decade, the films that define the decade will also change.

Perhaps though, decade-defining is simply meant with respect to film history. Within what we know of movements of film style and production, these films were influential. However, even if this is the assumption we're using, it's hard to get past the fact that style and production are grounded in history and culture and are connected to the aforementioned socio-political realities of the time in which the films were made.

Long comment here, apologies. I guess the bottom line is that we're all historians here, and that it's just assumed that along with being a historian comes a subjective narrativizing and categorizing. End of story right? Although I suppose that's somewhat cynical of me, if we have any hope to get at the truth of the matter. That's a conversation-ender to say that.

[Milky Joe]

1. JFK (Stone)
2. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
3. The Big Lebowski (Coen)
4. Boogie Nights (Anderson)
5. The Straight Story (Lynch)
6. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)
7. Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me (Lynch)
8. Short Cuts (Altman)
9. Ed Wood (Burton)
10. Husbands and Wives (Allen)

[baby doll]

Well, it's style is heavily inspired by Dogme95, which is itself a response to the bloated budgets and artificial effects of Hollywood filmmaking.When you say it's a "response to the bloated budgets" of Hollywood filmmaking, you make it sound like Trier could've raised hundreds of millions of dollars but chose not to on moral principle. It would be more accurate to say that Trier is taking an obstacle (or obstruction) and trying to turn it to his advantage, which is no different from what low-budget filmmakers have been doing since the beginning of low-budget films.

As for the aesthetics of Dogme95 (handheld camerawork, natural lighting, jump cuts), what is Trier doing here that John Cassavetes and the Nouvelle vague directors weren't already doing in the late '50s? (The only difference is that he signed a manifesto.) And if this aesthetic is so radically opposed to the artificial effects of Hollywood movies, why has it been so quickly adopted by directors like Kathryn Bigelow and Paul Greengrass? Meanwhile, one of the founding members of the Dogme movement, Lone Scherfig, has gone on to direct the very Hollywood-esque An Education.


In terms of the plot, I've always seen it as an answer to the tsunami of feel-good love stories to come out in the early-to-mid-90's, in which neurotic men and ditzy women overcome obstacles, often humorously, while traipsing around photogenic settings. In Breaking the Waves, these archetypes are rendered raw and carnal. Jan is stolid, but he obviously has a dark side; Bess is less of a ditz and more of a holy fool. Their love is carnal and damaging instead of saccharine. The setting is the sparse, bleak Scottish countryside. And while the ending shows that love does overcome all, it is by no means happy.Feel-good love stories weren't exclusive to the '90s, and more to the point, love stories (happy and unhappy ones) aren't exclusive to Hollywood. What is Trier doing in the film to allude specifically to the conventions of a Hollywood romantic comedy in order to contrast them with what happens in this film? (In Dancer in the Dark, for instance, the heroine escapes the grim reality of her life, which seems inspired by Stalinist-era propaganda films, by dreaming that she's the heroine of a Hollywood musical.)

In Breaking the Waves, Jan is associated with American pop music (in the opening sequence, when the church elders ask Bess if outsiders have ever brought anything of worth into the town, she answers their music, and we hear bits of songs from the period over the chapter titles), but rather than exposing the lyrics of these songs as lies by placing them against the story's harsh realities (as he did with the musical numbers in Dancer in the Dark), here the point is to allude to the sort of social changes that were happening in Europe in the '60s and early '70s in order to contrast them with life inside this repressive community. The only other reference to America in the film is when Jan takes Bess to see a children's film, which simply reinforces the idea that Bess is mentally handicapped.

[Chac Mool]

I think though that even if you're going to step back from your argument that these films defined the decade by adding a for me, it's helpful to point out that you could also put forward an argument by modifying what you original said in the following way: these films defined the decade for Hollywood film. You could make such an argument for these films as crowning achievements, as you say, of 4 heavyweight Hollywood directors in the '90s. Certainly it would be hard to argue, as Domino says, for any film to define a decade for all of film around the world.

It's not a question of stepping back at all. It's a question of being honest and accurate in what I say.

I grew up in North America. I was in my teens during the '90s. Therefore, the breadth and depth of my exposure to cinema was restricted to North American -- and therefore mostly to Hollywood. During my later years, as I got into cinema more seriously, I've certainly touched on non-Hollywood films from that era, but not to the same extent.

Furthermore, and perhaps more importantly, I don't consider my knowledge of film comprehensive. I think it's more varied and extensive than many, but certainly not comprehensive. Therefore, the only perspective I'm qualified to talk about is my own. That's why the "for me" is not a retreat so much as a very important qualification (which I thought was implied in everything I say, but which clearly needed to be stated). Since I haven't seen all (or even most) of the films released in the '90s, I don't see how I could make as sweeping a statement as that which has been interpreted above. So, to re-iterate: those four movies defined the '90s for me.


But I also wonder in saying that what we mean by the phrase "define the decade." What assumptions must we use to have an common understanding about this phrase? Perhaps we mean by this phrase that such decade-defining films would be making a statement about culture (ie: you saying these films were controversial in their time, and domino mentioning examples of films that expose socio-political realities and problems), and thereby, through engaging with the statement these films are making, we have become more aware. But more aware of what? How films engage with culture? The pressing issues that our culture faces? The emergence of a globalized culture?

It seems to me that one problem with the idea of a decade-defining film is that we're shooting at a moving target. Using some of the assumptions that I list above, one could say that how one imagines the socio-political realities and problems of a decade would change as one gains more perspective on a decade with the passage of time (as more information has been revealed and as the decade has been interpreted by historians and others). Or, with the passage of time comes the possibility of forgetfulness, of histories becoming more obscured by interpretations of interpretations. Suffice it to say, with a changing perspective on what defines a decade, the films that define the decade will also change.

Perhaps though, decade-defining is simply meant with respect to film history. Within what we know of movements of film style and production, these films were influential. However, even if this is the assumption we're using, it's hard to get past the fact that style and production are grounded in history and culture and are connected to the aforementioned socio-political realities of the time in which the films were made.

Long comment here, apologies. I guess the bottom line is that we're all historians here, and that it's just assumed that along with being a historian comes a subjective narrativizing and categorizing. End of story right? Although I suppose that's somewhat cynical of me, if we have any hope to get at the truth of the matter. That's a conversation-ender to say that.

Interesting thoughts. I can't disagree with any of them, and I'll add something that echoes my comment above: any discussion of film and its influence passes through the prism of the viewer. It's not just that we're all historians, but that we're all different too. To use your own terminology, not only do we see films differently, but our "targets" for evaluating them or defining their influence are different and moving differently.

In face of such staggering variability of criteria, my approach is simple: be as honest and personal as I can in my own opinions, and seek to understand where others' opinions are coming from.

With respect to my own view of "defining": certain events define their times by being, in retrospect, the most significant and influential. In European history, Classical Antiquity is centered by the Greco-Roman civilizations. No one is saying nothing else happened in those times, just that the influence of those two societies was bigger. My use of the term was similar: for me, based on what I've seen, those four movies define the '90s.



When you say it's a "response to the bloated budgets" of Hollywood filmmaking, you make it sound like Trier could've raised hundreds of millions of dollars but chose not to on moral principle. It would be more accurate to say that Trier is taking an obstacle (or obstruction) and trying to turn it to his advantage, which is no different from what low-budget filmmakers have been doing since the beginning of low-budget films.

As for the aesthetics of Dogme95 (handheld camerawork, natural lighting, jump cuts), what is Trier doing here that John Cassavetes and the Nouvelle vague directors weren't already doing in the late '50s? (The only difference is that he signed a manifesto.) And if this aesthetic is so radically opposed to the artificial effects of Hollywood movies, why has it been so quickly adopted by directors like Kathryn Bigelow and Paul Greengrass? Meanwhile, one of the founding members of the Dogme movement, Lone Scherfig, has gone on to direct the very Hollywood-esque An Education.

I don't think I make it sound like that at all. I merely mentioned that the Dogme95 movement is a response to extremely high budgets, and hence Hollywood filmmaking.

And I'm not sure what the second paragraph is meant to argue. I certainly didn't touch on the pros, cons, honesty or hypocrisy of the Dogme95 movement, its founders or its adopters. I even made sure to mention that Breaking the Waves is not a Dogme movie (because of its use of sets, background music and special effects), but merely inspired by.

Nevertheless, to answer you briefly: the Dogme95 movement is, at its core, much more ascetic in its completely dismissal of sets, props, external editing (of picture, sound), and even things like genre and "superficial action" (i.e. murders). I certainly don't think most of the Nouvelle-Vague or Cassavetes went that far.

EDIT: And I also don't think that it's in any way, shape or form correct to say that Kathryn Bigelow or Paul Greengrass are making Dogme95-inspired firms. Nor do I see why a Dogme95 director can't make a non-Dogme film.


Feel-good love stories weren't exclusive to the '90s, and more to the point, love stories (happy and unhappy ones) aren't exclusive to Hollywood. What is Trier doing in the film to allude specifically to the conventions of a Hollywood romantic comedy in order to contrast them with what happens in this film? (In Dancer in the Dark, for instance, the heroine escapes the grim reality of her life, which seems inspired by Stalinist-era propaganda films, by dreaming that she's the heroine of a Hollywood musical.)

In Breaking the Waves, Jan is associated with American pop music (in the opening sequence, when the church elders ask Bess if outsiders have ever brought anything of worth into the town, she answers their music, and we hear bits of songs from the period over the chapter titles), but rather than exposing the lyrics of these songs as lies by placing them against the story's harsh realities (as he did with the musical numbers in Dancer in the Dark), here the point is to allude to the sort of social changes that were happening in Europe in the '60s and early '70s in order to contrast them with life inside this repressive community. The only other reference to America in the film is when Jan takes Bess to see a children's film, which simply reinforces the idea that Bess is mentally handicapped.

I clearly referred not just to "feel-good stores" or "love stories", but to "the tsunami of feel-good love stories to come out in the early-to-mid-90's, in which neurotic men and ditzy women overcome obstacles, often humorously, while traipsing around photogenic settings". They're not exclusive to Hollywood (nothing is), but they are certainly representative of it.

As per where I get this from, I think it's explained fairly clearly in the paragraph you quoted: the characters are archetypes turned on their heads; the location is anti-romantic; the thematic arch if the film is inverted (neurotic -> normal becomes normal -> neurotic); we have a happy ending that isn't, and the entire film is guided by a director whose anti-Hollywood opinions are well-known. In my eyes, these elements add an additional (and fascinating) layer of meaning to the film (which does not, it should be noted, take any of the themes you mentioned away).

So, that's what I think. You may agree or disagree with my interpretation. Thank you for listening.

[Spinal]

One more day.

[baby doll]

I don't think I make it sound like that at all. I merely mentioned that the Dogme95 movement is a response to extremely high budgets, and hence Hollywood filmmaking.

And I'm not sure what the second paragraph is meant to argue. I certainly didn't touch on the pros, cons, honesty or hypocrisy of the Dogme95 movement, its founders or its adopters. I even made sure to mention that Breaking the Waves is not a Dogme movie (because of its use of sets, background music and special effects), but merely inspired by.

Nevertheless, to answer you briefly: the Dogme95 movement is, at its core, much more ascetic in its completely dismissal of sets, props, external editing (of picture, sound), and even things like genre and "superficial action" (i.e. murders). I certainly don't think most of the Nouvelle-Vague or Cassavetes went that far.

EDIT: And I also don't think that it's in any way, shape or form correct to say that Kathryn Bigelow or Paul Greengrass are making Dogme95-inspired firms. Nor do I see why a Dogme95 director can't make a non-Dogme film.Beginning with the Dogme movement generally, my point is that there's fundamentally no difference in the end result between a film like The Hurt Locker and, say, Italian for Beginners (a Dogme-certified romantic comedy--so much for the embargo on genre films). Location shooting, natural light, sync sound, and handheld camerawork have long been attributes of low-budget filmmaking, making it impossible to tell just by looking whether or not a film is in accordance with the manifesto. Furthermore, except for something really out there like julien donkey-boy, most Dogme movies stick to the rules of classical storytelling and continuity editing which have been the norm in Hollywood since the 1910s.

Incidentally, could some one explain to me the difference between a "superficial action" and any other action? What makes a murder scene more superficial than, for instance, the orgy sequence in The Idiots?


I clearly referred not just to "feel-good stores" or "love stories", but to "the tsunami of feel-good love stories to come out in the early-to-mid-90's, in which neurotic men and ditzy women overcome obstacles, often humorously, while traipsing around photogenic settings". They're not exclusive to Hollywood (nothing is), but they are certainly representative of it.

As per where I get this from, I think it's explained fairly clearly in the paragraph you quoted: the characters are archetypes turned on their heads; the location is anti-romantic; the thematic arch if the film is inverted (neurotic -> normal becomes normal -> neurotic); we have a happy ending that isn't, and the entire film is guided by a director whose anti-Hollywood opinions are well-known. In my eyes, these elements add an additional (and fascinating) layer of meaning to the film (which does not, it should be noted, take any of the themes you mentioned away).

So, that's what I think. You may agree or disagree with my interpretation. Thank you for listening.For one thing, I don't know about the location being "anti-romantic"; some of the landscapes we see in the film are downright stunning. If Trier really wanted an unromantic setting, he might've gone into the Glasgow apartment complexes we see in Red Road. And just because a director has an axe to grind with Hollywood doesn't mean that any film he makes will be inherently anti-Hollywood. I think in the case of Dancer in the Dark, he's specifically alluding to the conventions of Hollywood filmmaking--but then, it's not like the Stalinist melodrama which opposes them is any more realistic.

As for the film's narrative arc, the idea that Bess is "normal" at the beginning of the story seems to me rather dubious. (It's part of her back story that she's already spent time in an institution.) The ending isn't a happy one by most standards, but it isn't precisely a tragic one either. More importantly, the film doesn't have the structure of a romantic comedy. If Trier simply wanted to make a film knocking Hollywood, he could've made a film about a couple who doesn't overcome a set of obstacles to be together. Here, being together or not being together is never really the issue, since they're a married couple. Bess' goal is to try to save Jan's life.

[Derek]

1. Magnolia (Paul Thomas Anderson)
2. Three Colors: Blue (Krzysztof Kieslowski)
3. The Sweet Hereafter (Atom Egoyan)
4. Rushmore (Wes Anderson)
5. Underground (Emir Kusturica)
6. Heat (Michael Mann)
7. Eyes Wide Shut (Stanley Kubrick)
8. Close-Up (Kiarostami)
9. Naked (Mike Leigh)
10. Dazed & Confused (Linklater)

[soitgoes...]

8. Rosetta (Luc & Jean-Pierre Dardenne)
10. Histoire(s) du Cinéma (Jean-Luc Godard)Your way of sticking it to the man?

[baby doll]

Your way of sticking it to the man?My question is: Where did he see Histoire(s) du cinéma, and can I have the link?

[soitgoes...]

My question is: Where did he see Histoire(s) du cinéma, and can I have the link?KG?

[baby doll]

KG?Damn, I got booted off because my share ratio wasn't high enough.

[Derek]

Your way of sticking it to the man?

Rosetta's basically a remake of Mouchette, so I guess I'm just trying to stick it to Qrazy. ;)


My question is: Where did he see Histoire(s) du cinéma, and can I have the link?

I saw it when it screened at UCLA a few years back, but soitgoes is right that it's now on Karagarga with subs.

[Derek]

Damn, I got booted off because my share ratio wasn't high enough.

I always have invites if you wanna sign up again.

[Raiders]

Rosetta's basically a remake of Mouchette, so I guess I'm just trying to stick it to Qrazy. ;)

Pretty sure he meant that neither of those are on the master list.

[Derek]

Pretty sure he meant that neither of those are on the master list.

Oh yeah, that.

[baby doll]

I always have invites if you wanna sign up again.That would be much appreciated.

[Spinal]

Yeah, if you want your ballot to count, gotta do an edit, sir.

[Derek]

Yeah, if you want your ballot to count, gotta do an edit, sir.

Ballot edited to include only eligible films i think plz count my votes kind sir.

[Spinal]

I had no idea you were that big on Magnolia. Interesting.

[Spinal]

Last call.

[Spinal]

#19 (tie)

Hana-bi

Directed by: Takeshi Kitano

Year: 1997

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The film that pleased just about everyone ... even Utah: "An exceptional piece of filmmaking, a drama that blurs the line between the ultra-violent cop movie genre and weepy but moving melodrama, and does it very convincingly." -- Jeff Vice, Deseret News, Salt Lake City

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Do Japanese people scream when someone gets shot?
2. Sunglasses
3. Here's a discussion thread for you.

Who said it?: "Kitano's Hana-Bi just gets better and better and better. I've seen it four times now and each time is like a revelation."

Sven

[Derek]

Who said it?: "Kitano's Hana-Bi just gets better and better and better. I've seen it four times now and each time is like a revelation."

Sven

Too easy. :)

This is one I really do need to see again.

[Spinal]

#19 (tie)

Exotica

Directed by: Atom Egoyan

Year: 1994

rB4pZVhMFww

Do angels need Brazilian waxing?: "He comes in here every other night. He has his favorite drink, and his favourite table, with his favorite dancer. Sometimes he has to wait for her, and sometimes she's waiting for him, to protect him. She's his angel."

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Location of Strip Club in movie?
2. Mia Kirshner underage at filming?
3. someone please tell me!!!!

Who said it?: "I saw Exotica today and am at a loss for words, just :pritch:"

Philosophe_rouge

[Spinal]

#18

JFK

Directed by: Olliver Stone

Year: 1991

Gcaq4ElAJrE

Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger in a Strange Land
Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs Invasion

Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British politician sex
JFK, blown away, what else do I have to say?

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. What is a Conspiracy?
2. Why didn't Superman stop Oswald?
3. Why tards believe in JFK conspiracy nonsense

Who said it?: "JFK is a film about JFK."

Spinal

[DavidSeven]

#19 (tie)

Exotica

Nice! Surprised this managed to slip in.

[Watashi]

I have no idea what will be #1.

The Sweet Hereafter?

[Spinal]

#17

Boogie Nights

Directed by: Paul Thomas Anderson

Year: 1997

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Sometimes it's best not to know: Dirk's rather large organ is a prosthetic device made from rubber. This prop was kept by Mark Wahlberg as a souvenir from the film. It was made from an easily biodegradable rubber and foam combination which, according to Wahlberg, has since begun to deteriorate.

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Man, thats one angry donut store robber!!!
2. Gary Coleman in Boogie Nights?
3. Post here if you wanna *beep* rollergirl.

Who said it?: "Boogie Nights is a rockin' Scorsese/Altman/Cassavetes mashup."

Boner M

[Spinal]

#16

Dead Man

Directed by: Jim Jarmusch

Year: 1995

C6IDym1Yxmc

Might be just gas: "Often the evil stench of white man precedes him."

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Fell asleep twice but LOVED it.
2. Did the real William Blake actually kill this many people?
3. what's the deal with the trees?

Who said it?: "Jarmusch isn't fit to be Scorsese's waterboy."

Qrazy

[Spinal]

#15

The Sweet Hereafter

Directed by: Atom Egoyan

Year: 1997

N47SIrHhnFc

All the little boys and girls,
With rosy cheeks and flaxen curls,
And sparkling eyes and teeth like pearls,
Tripping and skipping, ran merrily after
The wonderful music with shouting and laughter.

-- Robert Browning, The Pied Piper of Hamelin (http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/piper/text.html)

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. What's so sweet about it?
2. 71 MPH? in canada we use KPH!
3. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz........... .........

Who said it?: "I have no idea what will be #1. The Sweet Hereafter?"

Watashi

[Grouchy]

Please, go on.

[B-side]

:D

[Spinal]

#14

Chungking Express

Directed by: Wong Kar Wai

Year: 1994

K0FfQtreJvU

Why not just take a piss?: "The body loses water when you jog, so you have none left for tears."

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. This film made me consider suicide (and ruined a half decent song)
2. just watched this is [sic] film studies
3. Did anyone study this in Film Studies?

Who said it?: "I'm venturing a guess that I will watch this movie the most times throughout my life."

Kurious Jorge v3.1

[Boner M]

Who said it?: "Boogie Nights is a rockin' Scorsese/Altman/Cassavetes mashup."

Boner M
My first thought was 'LOL Pop Trash' and then I clicked the spoiler. D'oh.

[Spinal]

#13

Goodfellas

Directed by: Martin Scorsese

Year: 1990

rW1oVdOxKko

Walked right into that one:
"Compared to less nitpicky gangster fare, GoodFellas still falters."
-- Christopher Null, Filmcritic.com

"Your wife told me you falter in bed after I just finished with her."
-- RT user, $tar$

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Did anyone else notice Jigsaw?
2. Imagine if Harry from Home Alone and Tommy met and had an argument
3. cg72872 doesn't know sht [sic] about Goodfellas!

Who said it?: "I remember liking GoodFellas an awful lot, but I found Casino much richer and more interesting. It's like comparing an early work by Shakespeare like, I dunno, Richard III to King Lear."

balmakboor

[Boner M]

Walked right into that one:
"Compared to less nitpicky gangster fare, GoodFellas still falters."
-- Christopher Null, Filmcritic.com

"Your wife told me you falter in bed after I just finished with her."
-- RT user, $tar$
Every once in a while, RT review comments sections are proven mandatory.

[Spinal]

#12

Red

Directed by: Krzysztof Kieslowski

Year: 1994

TNrfj5cde4s

IMDb's Best Ferry Movies (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/ferry/?title_type=feature):
1. Medovyy mesyats
2. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
3. Greed
4. Trois couleurs: Rouge
5. Cross Country Cruise

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. what order should i see the trilogy in?
2. do i need to see them in order?
3. Does it matter the order of the films?

Who said it?: "I like the trilogy, but I've always been a bit torn: Red and Blue are beautifully made and have a lot to say, but they've always seemed a bit contrived or artificial -- more like theses than movies about real life."

Chac Mool

[Spinal]

#11

Lost Highway

Directed by: David Lynch

Year: 1997

GJuya9mJcDA

A simile that never really caught on: "Boy, that's smooth. Smooth as shit off a duck's ass!"

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. It all symbolizes vagina. That's it. End of story.
2. This movie makes Donnie Darko look like a 4 piece jigsaw puzzle
3. JAMES CAMERON APPRECIATION THREAD

Who said it?: "Lost Highway is an absolutely superb satire of the wave of Tarantinoism that infected American indies in the mid-90s. Check out the music cues if you doubt it."

transmogrifier

[Spinal]

intermission

[Boner M]

1. It all symbolizes vagina. That's it. End of story
3. JAMES CAMERON APPRECIATION THREAD
:lol::lol::lol:

[Spinal]

:lol::lol::lol:

I keep thinking that eventually the IMDb well will run dry. Not yet.

[chrisnu]

I couldn't be more pleased with that selection. I'm glad that it has a good reputation, at least on Match Cut.

[Bosco B Thug]

Halfway mark rating? I say acceptable.

19. Hana-bi - hardly remember it
19. Exotica - ***1/2
18. JFK - ***1/2
17. Boogie Nights - ***
16. Dead Man - hardly remember it
Dead Man IMDb queries - ****
15. The Sweet Hereafter - ****
14. Chungking Express - n/a
13. Goodfellas - hardly remember it
12. Red - ***1/2
11. Lost Highway - n/a

[Ezee E]

Fargo will probably be #1, duh Watashi.

[Raiders]

Surprised The Sweet Hereafter didn't crack the top ten.

19. Hana-bi [****]
19. Exotica [****]
18. JFK [***]
17. Boogie Nights [***]
16. Dead Man [****]
15. The Sweet Hereafter [****]
14. Chungking Express [***½]
13. Goodfellas [***]
12. Red [***½]
11. Lost Highway [***]

Not too shabby so far.

[Spinal]

#10

Magnolia

Directed by: Paul Thomas Anderson

Year: 1999

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Ronald Opus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Opus#cite_note-Campbell-0) is a fictional man in an urban legend about a hypothetical suicide. The popular account of the story is told as follows:

On 1994-03-23 a medical examiner viewed the body of Ronald Opus and concluded that he died from a gunshot wound of the head caused by a shotgun. Investigation to that point had revealed that the decedent had jumped from the top of a ten story building with the intent to commit suicide. As he passed the 9th floor on the way down, his life was interrupted by a shotgun blast through a window, killing him instantly. Neither the shooter nor the decedent was aware that a safety net had been erected at the 8th floor level to protect some window washers, and that the decedent would most likely not have been able to complete his intent to commit suicide because of this.

The story was originally an example invented by Don Harper Mills, then the past president of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, which he presented at a banquet in 1987. Mills has since said that he "made it up" for entertainment purposes.

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. julianne moore cussed too much..
2. This movie was the dictionary definition of Pretentious.
3. Was that Tom Cruise's real dong in that underwear scene

Who said it?: "Magnolia is much more Short Cuts then anything else he's done. Hell, it's even got Julianne Moore, only without the bush."

Ezee E

[Spinal]

#8 (tie)

Naked

Directed by: Mike Leigh

Year: 1993

0WcIyjB7xfI

IMDb's Best Rough Sex Movies (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/rough-sex/?title_type=feature):
1. Scenes from a Marriage
2. Naked
3. Blue Velvet
4. Sideways
5. Little Children

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. So message of the movie: women are incredibly stupid.
2. I advise Americans not to watch this
3. Would Johnny be able to break Poppy from 'Happy Go-Lucky'?

Who said it?: "Leigh’s vision of despair and disconnection extends to its grimy settings and thick cockney accents, delivered full of acerbic wit by his typically brilliant cast, especially David Thewlis, in what is perhaps the best performance of the 1990s."

Derek

[Spinal]

#8 (tie)

Breaking the Waves

Directed by: Lars von Trier

Year: 1996

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Martin Scorsese's Top 10 Films of the 90s:
1. Horse Thief
2. The Thin Red Line
3. A Borrowed Life
4. Eyes Wide Shut
5. Bad Lieutenant
6. Breaking the Waves
7. Bottle Rocket
8. Crash
9. Fargo
10. Malcolm X and Heat (tie)

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. I felt bad for the man on the bus!
2. God is one sadistic b astard in this movie (spoilers)
3. Hard to watch during the 'intimate scene' when your with parents!

Who said it?: "Breaking the Waves was banal and too far removed from what I'd categorize as a powerful love story. I thought it was rather ugly at times, unpleasant."

Morris Schæffer

[Ezee E]

I have no clue what my Magnolia quote means, but I do remember typing it. Weird.

[Spinal]

#7

Fargo

Directed by: Joel Coen

Year: 1996

rNJ8gSsa4Q0

Point, Counterpoint:
"All attitude and low aptitude. Its function is to italicize the Coens' giddy contempt toward people who talk and think Minnesotan."
-- Richard Corliss, Time

"Corliss, you tool. The Coens are from Minnesota."
-- RT user, savethemooses

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. She could have got away if she wasn't so stupid.
2. characters such as marge always say 'YAAA'
3. WAS PRINCE IN THIS?

Who said it?: "Fargo will probably be #1, duh Watashi."

Ezee E

[Spinal]

#6

Schindler's List

Directed by: Steven Spielberg

Year: 1993

(You might not wish to click this video at work.)

phhaBsOK2uY

IMDb's Most Popular Wet T-Shirt Movies (http://www.imdb.com/keyword/wet-t-shirt/?title_type=feature&sort=num_votes):
1. Schindler's List
2. Spider-Man
3. The Fast and the Furious
4. Dazed and Confused
5. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (2003)

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. One thing I hate about the little girl in red.
2. wached this movie while eatnig [sic] a bagel
3. Not as good as Avatar.

Who said it?: "[Toy Story 3] focuses on the implications of what being discarded would mean for a toy that was able to talk and think. What it would really mean to 'grow out of a toy' if the kind of films Pixar and Dreamworks make about inanimate objects or 'lesser' animals were humanlike. Any less sentimental and the film would be Schindler's List."

eternity

[Spinal]

#5

Rushmore

Directed by: Wes Anderson

Year: 1998

hJKTkcq_xh4

Wise beyond his years: "Maybe I'm spending too much of my time starting up clubs and putting on plays. I should probably be trying harder to score chicks."

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. i am like max fisher
2. Reminds me of myself
3. Was I only person who felt this way?

Who said it?: "I feel it shares similar problems with something like Amelie where any attempts at being genuine are swept aside by cuteness, bombast and whimsy."

Qrazy

[Pop Trash]

I still can't watch Rushmore without thinking I'm watching a flick by someone who really, really loves The Graduate.

[Spinal]

#4

The Thin Red Line

Directed by: Terrence Malick

Year: 1998

yovMEjwZlgM

James Ramon Jones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Jones_(author)) (1921-77) was an American author known for his explorations of World War II and its aftermath. He enlisted in the United States Army in 1939 and served in the 25th Infantry Division before and during World War II, first in Hawaii at Schofield Barracks on Oahu, then in combat on Guadalcanal, where he was wounded in action. He witnessed the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, which led to his first published novel, From Here to Eternity. The Thin Red Line reflected his combat experiences on Guadalcanal. Jones would not live long enough to see the completion of his last novel, Whistle, (Jones knew he was dying of congestive heart failure while writing it). However, Jones did leave behind copious notes for Willie Morris to complete the final section upon his death.

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. George Clooney and John Travolta.... what the hell??
2. A preachy emo film.
3. This movie is like a facking dream!!!!

Who said it?: "[The Thin Red Line] interrogates both the classic depiction of the bloodthirsty American, the dispassionate American, and the earnest American, arguing that all three can still find communion in something greater, even if no one is aware of their similarities outside their own perspectives."

dreamdead

[Spinal]

#3

Eyes Wide Shut

Directed by: Stanley Kubrick

Year: 1999

h8MoK7SjUgY

Dr. Arthur Schnitzler (1862 - 1931) was an Austrian author and dramatist. His works were often controversial, both for their frank description of sexuality and for their strong stand against anti-Semitism. Schnitzler was branded as a pornographer after the release of his play Reigen, in which ten pairs of characters are shown before and after the sexual act, leading and ending with a prostitute. His works would later be cited as "Jewish filth" by Adolf Hitler.

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Naked Guys at Orgy - Way too hunky
2. Weed in the Band-Aid tin. Symbolism?
3. Can this be considered a Christmas movie?

Who said it?: "I think the fact that I always found it a bit baffling is maybe part of the allure."

Russ

[DavidSeven]

Man, I love Rushmore and Tenenbaums, but this forum is a lil' too high on Wes.

[Spinal]

#2

The Big Lebowski

Directed by: Joel Coen

Year: 1998

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The film that underwhelmed Utah:
"This uneven screwball comedy -- a disjointed and half-hearted attempt by the Coen brothers to return to the Raising Arizona style -- is bound to underwhelm even their most fervent admirers."
-- Jeff Vice, Deseret News, Salt Lake City

"Did you had your divorce before writing this review or you got slapped by her coz you pissed again in your pants. Get a life man...DUDE rocks..."
-- RT User, Tony S.

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Should criminal behavior be de-marijuanaized in the United States?
2. Would Donny Have Liked Weezer?
3. I Can't Think Of A Good Topic.

Who said it?: "Man, no character in any film is as full o' soul as Sam Elliott in The Big Lebowski."

Raiders

[DavidSeven]

Love Lebowski, too. But... yeah. We jumped the shark.

[Grouchy]

Love Lebowski, too. But... yeah. We jumped the shark.
156 episodes! The bulk of the series!

Not exactly a lightweight.

[Spinal]

#1

Pulp Fiction

Directed by: Quentin Tarantino

Year: 1994

9UmmbF1Zyvk

A bondage suit, also commonly called a gimp suit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondage_suit) or Dan Jury suit is a garment designed to cover the body completely (usually including the hands and feet), fitting it closely, and often including anchor points for bondage. It often has an attached hood; if not, it will be worn with a bondage hood or "gimp mask". It may be made from any material, although leather, PVC, rubber, spandex and darlexx are the most usual. Leather (not being stretchy) cannot be as close-fitting as the others. It is used in BDSM to objectify the wearer, or gimp, and reduce him or her to the status of a sexual toy, rather than a sexual partner. Unless there are suitably placed zippers, the breasts and genitals will be inaccessible while the suit is worn (although they can still be massaged).

Sample IMDb forum thread topics:

1. Any Other Teenagers Out There That Liked This Movie?
2. Where can I get a lighted briefcase like in this movie?
3. Did Zed use a condom ??

Who said it?: "If dialog could be thought of as music, then Pulp Fiction would be a grand opera and Samuel Jackson would be its Placido Domingo.

balmakboor

[Spinal]

1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino) 103.5
2. The Big Lebowski (Coen) 76.5
3. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick) 74.5
4. The Thin Red Line (Malick) 73
5. Rushmore (W. Anderson) 69.5
6. Schindler's List (Spielberg) 66
7. Fargo (Coen) 61
8t. Breaking the Waves (Trier) 56.5
8t. Naked (Leigh) 56.5
10. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson) 51.5
11. Lost Highway (Lynch) 44
12. Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski) 43.5
13. Goodfellas (Scorsese) 43
14. Chungking Express (Wong) 42.5
15. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan) 39.5
16. Dead Man (Jarmusch) 39
17. Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson) 37.5
18. JFK (Stone) 36
19t. Exotica (Egoyan) 34.5
19t. Hana-bi (Kitano) 34.5

Not quite:
Fight Club (Fincher) 34
Cure (K. Kurosawa) 33
Groundhog Day (Ramis) 33
Being John Malkovich (Jonze) 31
The Shawshank Redemption (Darabont) 28.5

[Spinal]

One list was submitted via PM.

It was from Dead & Messed Up:

01. Baraka (Fricke)
02. Goodfellas (Scorsese)
03. Fargo (Coen)
04. Seven (Fincher)
05. Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (Park)
06. The Silence of the Lambs (Demme)
07. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick)
08. The Celebration (Vinterberg)
09. The Rapture (Tolkin)
10. Election (Payne)

[Boner M]

The film that underwhelmed Utah:
"This uneven screwball comedy -- a disjointed and half-hearted attempt by the Coen brothers to return to the Raising Arizona style -- is bound to underwhelm even their most fervent admirers."
-- Jeff Vice, Deseret News, Salt Lake City
Jeff Vice strikes again!

Great list overall, though I wish Wats' #1 premonition had come true.

[Spinal]

Archangel (Maddin)
Baraka (Fricke) 7
Barton Fink (Coen) 6
Beau Travail (Denis) 24
Beauty and the Beast (Trousdale/Wise) 7
Before Sunrise (Linklater) 16
Being John Malkovich (Jonze) 31
Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson) 37.5
Bottle Rocket (W. Anderson) 2
Boys Don't Cry (Peirce) 9.5
Breaking the Waves (Trier) 56.5
Chungking Express (Wong) 42.5
Close-Up (Kiarostami) 13
Crash (Cronenberg) 4
Crumb (Zwigoff) 14.5
Cure (K. Kurosawa) 33
Cyclo (Tran) 9.5
Dances with Wolves (Costner)
Days of Being Wild (Wong) 12
Dazed and Confused (Linklater) 9
Dead Man (Jarmusch) 39
Delicatessen (Caro/Jeunet)
Ed Wood (Burton) 20
Edward Scissorhands (Burton)
Election (Payne) 3.5
Exotica (Egoyan) 34.5
Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick) 74.5
Fargo (Coen) 61
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (Gilliam) 4
Fight Club (Fincher) 34
Freeway (Bright)
Fucking Åmål (Moodysson) 16
Funny Games (Haneke) 7
Goodfellas (Scorsese) 43
Groundhog Day (Ramis) 33
Hana-bi (Kitano) 34.5
Hard-Boiled (Woo) 2.5
Heat (Mann) 13.5
Heavenly Creatures (Jackson) 19.5
Husbands and Wives (Allen) 2
In the Company of Men (LaBute) 8
Jackie Brown (Tarantino) 6
Jacob's Ladder (Lyne)
JFK (Stone) 36
Kikujiro (Kitano) 3
L.A. Confidential (Hanson) 12.5
La Promesse (Dardennes) 7
Lessons of Darkness (Herzog) 9
Lone Star (Sayles) 8
Lost Highway (Lynch) 44
Magnolia (P.T. Anderson) 51.5
Malcolm X (S. Lee)
Metropolitan (Stillman) 3
Miller's Crossing (Coen) 19
Naked (Leigh) 56.5
Nikita (Besson)
Orlando (Potter) 3.5
Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (Berlinger/Sinofsky) 6
Pleasantville (Ross) 7
Princess Mononoke (Miyazaki) 19.5
Pulp Fiction (Tarantino) 103.5
Raise the Red Lantern (Zhang) 16.5
Ratcatcher (Ramsay) 3
Reservoir Dogs (Tarantino)
Run, Lola, Run (Tykwer) 12
Rushmore (W. Anderson) 69.5
Safe (Haynes) 27
Sátántangó (Tarr) 20
Saving Private Ryan (Spielberg) 8.5
Schindler's List (Spielberg) 66
Se7en (Fincher) 13.5
Secrets and Lies (Leigh) 5
Short Cuts (Altman) 8.5
Sling Blade (Thornton)
Sonatine (Kitano)
Terminator 2: Judgment Day (Cameron) 21.5
The Big Lebowski (Coen) 76.5
The Celebration (Vinterberg) 21.5
The Double Life of Veronique (Kieslowski) 25
The Nightmare Before Christmas (Selick) 13
The Piano (Campion) 11
The Player (Altman) 6
The Rapture (Tolkin) 2.5
The Shawshank Redemption (Darabont) 28.5
The Silence of the Lambs (Demme) 12
The Straight Story (Lynch) 13.5
The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan) 39.5
The Thin Red Line (Malick) 73
The Truman Show (Weir) 9
Three Colors: Blue (Kieslowski) 24
Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski) 43.5
Three Colors: White (Kieslowski)
Toy Story (Lasseter)
Trainspotting (Boyle)
Twelve Monkeys (Gilliam) 3
Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me (Lynch) 11.5
Underground (Kusturica) 11.5
Unforgiven (Eastwood) 25
Waiting for Guffman (Guest)
Wallace & Gromit in the Wrong Trousers (Park) 16.5
Whisper of the Heart (Kondo) 19.5
Wild at Heart (Lynch) 3

[Eleven]

Crash (Cronenberg) 4

Just me and Scorsese on this one.


09. The Rapture (Tolkin)

High five!

[Bosco B Thug]

I never said anything about Eyes Wide Shut. It's great. And Spinal's YouTube video choice for it is kinda captures its horror. :lol:

1. Pulp Fiction - ***1/2
2. The Big Lebowski - hardly remember it
3. Eyes Wide Shut - ***1/2
4. The Thin Red Line - ****
5. Rushmore - ***1/2
6. Schindler's List - hardly remember it
7. Fargo - ****
8t. Breaking the Waves - ****
8t. Naked - ****
10. Magnolia - ***

Not quite:
Fight Club - ***1/2
Cure - ****
Groundhog Day - n/a
Being John Malkovich - hardly remember it
The Shawshank Redemption - **1/2

[Pop Trash]

1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino) - 10
2. The Big Lebowski (Coen) - 7
3. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick) - 6 (needs a rewatch)
4. The Thin Red Line (Malick) - 7
5. Rushmore (W. Anderson) - 7
6. Schindler's List (Spielberg) - 10 (needs a rewatch)
7. Fargo (Coen) - 10
8t. Breaking the Waves (Trier) - 9
10. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson) - 7
11. Lost Highway (Lynch) - 8
13. Goodfellas (Scorsese) - 9
14. Chungking Express (Wong) - 9
15. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan) - 10
17. Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson) - 9
18. JFK (Stone) - 9 (needs a rewatch)
19t. Exotica (Egoyan) - 9
19t. Hana-bi (Kitano) - 9

Not quite:
Fight Club (Fincher) - 7
Groundhog Day (Ramis) - 9
Being John Malkovich (Jonze) - 9 (needs a rewatch)
The Shawshank Redemption (Darabont) - 9 (needs a rewatch)

[Stay Puft]

1. Pulp Fiction (**)
2. The Big Lebowski (***½)
3. Eyes Wide Shut (***½)
5. Rushmore (**)
7. Fargo (**½)
8t. Breaking the Waves (**)
11. Lost Highway (***½)
12. Three Colors: Red (***½)
13. Goodfellas (**½)
14. Chungking Express (***½)
15. The Sweet Hereafter (***½)
16. Dead Man (****)
19t. Exotica (****)
19t. Hana-bi (****)

[Derek]

Love Lebowski, too. But... yeah. We jumped the shark.

What comedies would you put above those two? Or do you just think that no comedies should be on a consensus top 10?

[DavidSeven]

What comedies would you put above those two? Or do you just think that no comedies should be on a consensus top 10?

Pulp Fiction is kind of a comedy. Fargo, too. Both in my top ten. Pure comedies? Probably can't think of one I would include. Not opposed to Big Lebowski being there, but it seems odd to crown it the SECOND BEST FILM OF THE ENTIRE DECADE. But you know, I'd give the film four stars, so why am I complaining? Rushmore is a more iffy selection to me -- at least Lebowski is technically well-made and haha funny; Rushmore is pretty rough around the edges from a filmmaking standpoint and more whimsical than uproarious (thanks Qrazy).

I probably like both of those movies more than Malick's and Spielberg's. Don't mind TTRL's placement because I respect what Malick is doing even if I don't really enjoy his films. Schindler's List I'd probably lump with the other two in the "OK that movie was pretty cool, but seriously?" category.

[Boner M]

The Big Lebowski is more accomplished than Pulp Fiction in every regard.

[Raiders]

The Big Lebowski is more accomplished than Pulp Fiction in every regard.

It's got more soul at least.

[StanleyK]

1. Pulp Fiction - ****
2. The Big Lebowski - ****
3. Eyes Wide Shut - ****
4. The Thin Red Line - ****
5. Rushmore - ****
6. Schindler's List - ****
7. Fargo - ****
10. Magnolia - ****
11. Lost Highway - ****
14. Chungking Express - ***½
17. Boogie Nights - ****
19. Hana-Bi - ****

Red, Goodfellas, The Sweet Hereafter and JFK I have seen and remember liking.

I have to say I prefer the 00's list (and the decade in general); it seemed much more diverse, and more distinctively Match-Cut.

[DavidSeven]

The Big Lebowski is more accomplished than Pulp Fiction in every regard.

Pulp Fiction is more accomplished than your mother in... eh, can't do it.

[origami_mustache]

I missed voting...my list would have looked like this though.

1. Lessons of Darkness (Herzog)
2. Sátántangó (Tarr)
3. Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson)
4. The Thin Red Line (Malick)
5. Archangel (Maddin)
6. Chungking Express (Wong)
7. Dead Man (Jarmusch)
8. Ratcatcher (Ramsay)
9. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson)
10. Breaking the Waves (Trier)

[Ezee E]

We're too high on Wes Anderson in general.

Eyes Wide Shut surprised me the most.

[Dead & Messed Up]

I love these lists. Usually one or two of my own choices make it, I love the remainder that I see on the list, and the rest are solid film recommendations.

[Chac Mool]

#3

Eyes Wide Shut

Who said it?: "I think the fact that I always found it a bit baffling is maybe part of the allure."

Russ

That's a huge part of its allure. It's a perfectly clear movie -- with little dicking around Ã* la Lynch -- and yet it's very hard to put a finger on what it's really saying.

[Chac Mool]

If Trier simply wanted to make a film knocking Hollywood, he could've made a film about a couple who doesn't overcome a set of obstacles to be together.

Sorry for the delay -- I didn't notice your reply in the torrent of posts that followed.

I don't think Trier "simply" wanted to make a film knocking Hollywood at all. As I mentioned in my last post, the themes you brought up are certainly part of the film. But I do think there is an additional thematic layer contrasting "Waves" with its contemporary romantic films.

[Dillard]

1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino) - 5 (needs rewatch)
2. The Big Lebowski (Coen) - 8.5
3. Eyes Wide Shut (Kubrick) - n/a (watched long time ago but don't remember)
4. The Thin Red Line (Malick) - 6.5
5. Rushmore (W. Anderson) - 7
6. Schindler's List (Spielberg) - 5 (needs rewatch but uninterested in doing so)
7. Fargo (Coen) - 6 (needs rewatch)
8t. Breaking the Waves (Trier) - n/a
8t. Naked (Leigh) - 7.5
10. Magnolia (P.T. Anderson) - 8
11. Lost Highway (Lynch) - 4.5 (my least favorite Lynch film)
12. Three Colors: Red (Kieslowski) - 9.5
13. Goodfellas (Scorsese) - 5.5
14. Chungking Express (Wong) - 9
15. The Sweet Hereafter (Egoyan) - n/a
16. Dead Man (Jarmusch) - 5
17. Boogie Nights (P.T. Anderson) - 6
18. JFK (Stone) - n/a (watched long time ago but don't remember)
19t. Exotica (Egoyan) n/a
19t. Hana-bi (Kitano) n/a

Looking forward to watching Sweet Hereafter, Exotica, and Hana-bi!

[Pop Trash]

The Big Lebowski is more accomplished than Pulp Fiction in every regard.

Total fucking nonsense.

[Pop Trash]

That's a huge part of its allure. It's a perfectly clear movie -- with little dicking around Ã* la Lynch -- and yet it's very hard to put a finger on what it's really saying.

What's it clear about?

[Russ]

What's it clear about?
It's rather straightforward on a scene-by-scene basis. It's easier to understand and parse the individual scenes (narratively speaking) than it is to grasp the ultimate meaning of the sum of those parts.

[MadMan]

Point, Counterpoint:
"All attitude and low aptitude. Its function is to italicize the Coens' giddy contempt toward people who talk and think Minnesotan."
-- Richard Corliss, Time

"Corliss, you tool. The Coens are from Minnesota."
-- RT user, savethemoosesThis exchange is classic.

1. Pulp Fiction (Tarantino)-100
2. The Big Lebowski (Coen)-100
5. Rushmore (W. Anderson)-100
7. Fargo (Coen)-100
13. Goodfellas (Scorsese)-100
16. Dead Man (Jarmusch)-95
18. JFK (Stone)-100

Not quite:
Fight Club (Fincher)-100
Groundhog Day (Ramis)-93
The Shawshank Redemption (Darabont)-95

I haven't seen as much of this list as I did the other one. Loved the YouTube clips and the quotes, Spinal. You kill bugs real good, man :P

[Chac Mool]

It's rather straightforward on a scene-by-scene basis. It's easier to understand and parse the individual scenes (narratively speaking) than it is to grasp the ultimate meaning of the sum of those parts.

Bingo.

[Boner M]

Total fucking nonsense.
Yup, even on the ever-popular 'emotional resonance' scale. I think Pulp Fiction's unchallenged status as the frequent consensus pick as the 90's best movie speaks far more to it being in the right place at the right time & nostalgia than its quality; essentially the cinematic equivalent of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (or, as baby doll suggests, it represents the conflation of 'defining' with 'good'). A solid film, no doubt, but more than anything, a nifty 'gateway drug' film that I (probably arrogantly) feel a lot movie buffs owe themselves to look at with more critical distance.

[Pop Trash]

Yup, even on the ever-popular 'emotional resonance' scale. I think Pulp Fiction's unchallenged status as the frequent consensus pick as the 90's best movie speaks far more to it being in the right place at the right time & nostalgia than its quality; essentially the cinematic equivalent of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (or, as baby doll suggests, it represents the conflation of 'defining' with 'good'). A solid film, no doubt, but more than anything, a nifty 'gateway drug' film that I (probably arrogantly) feel a lot movie buffs owe themselves to look at with more critical distance.

That's cute Boner, but not much of an argument for why Lebowski is better.

[MacGuffin]

That's cute Boner, but not much of an argument for why Lebowski is better.

He didn't originally say it was better, he said it was more accomplished.

[Spinal]

Say what you want about Pulp Fiction, but leave "Smells Like Teen Spirit" alone, man.

[Pop Trash]

He didn't originally say it was better, he said it was more accomplished.

better/accomplished/awesomesauce/redonkulous/zippitydooda/etc.

[MadMan]

I love both The Big Lebowski and Pulp Fiction. Can't we all just get along, man? :P

PS: Also as great as Smells Like Teen Spirit is, that song isn't even close to being Nirvana's best track. Where as Pulp Fiction is QT's best movie.

[Boner M]

That's cute Boner, but not much of an argument for why Lebowski is better.
The Big Lebowski...
-appropriates film-noir conventions more effectively
-utilises fading star personae more effectively
-Casts 'LA as a character' more effectively
-is funnier
-has a better musical sequence
-has a better drug-related accident scene
-has a more imaginative soundtrack
-didn't make Urge Overkill semi-famous
-is way funnier
-might not be 'cooler', but who gives a shit
-was/is too singular to spawn irritating imitators (the closest it has to a successor is Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, which is good for similar reasons)
-gets better on repeat viewings*

*might rewatch Pulp Fiction shortly in lieu of this post to see if I'm wrong

[Pop Trash]

The Big Lebowski...
-appropriates film-noir conventions more effectively
-utilises fading star personae more effectively
-Casts 'LA as a character' more effectively
-is funnier
-has a better musical sequence
-has a better drug-related accident scene
-has a more imaginative soundtrack
-didn't make Urge Overkill semi-famous
-is way funnier
-might not be 'cooler', but who gives a shit
-was/is too singular to spawn irritating imitators (the closest it has to a successor is Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, which is good for similar reasons)
-gets better on repeat viewings*

*might rewatch Pulp Fiction shortly in lieu of this post to see if I'm wrong

Yeah, well, you know, that's just like...uh...your opinion, man.