The Marvel/Sony Superhero Movies Thread

[Morris Schæffer]

Critics r trashin dark phoenix.

[Peng]

looool

1136138824440926208

[Dukefrukem]

That's really funny.

[Dukefrukem]

Critics r trashin dark phoenix.

18% RT - lowest X-Men rating ever. Previous series low was X-Men: Origins at 37%.

Fantastic Four was 8%.

[megladon8]

I only noticed today the the movie’s title is “Dark Phoenix”, not “X-Men: Dark Phoenix”.

[Dukefrukem]

I only noticed today the the movie’s title is “Dark Phoenix”, not “X-Men: Dark Phoenix”.

Yes but there's an X through the O

[TGM]

Yes but there's an X through the O

Rather, there's an O around the X. ;)

[megladon8]

Yes but there's an X through the O

That’s what she said.

[Ezee E]

Guess I'll skip.

[Irish]

I'm almost curious to see the trainwreck.

18% RT puts "Phoenix" below "Last Stand" and "Apocalypse," iirc. That's a kind of achievement, I guess, for a franchise better known for its lackluster entries than its good ones.

[megladon8]

I cannot imagine how it’s worse than Apocalypse.

That was embarrassing.

[Dukefrukem]

Guys... Despite how you feel about the X-Men franchise... it got a worse RT score than X-men: Origins. Enough said.

[megladon8]

Guys... Despite how you feel about the X-Men franchise... it got a worse RT score than X-men: Origins. Enough said.

Remember how that was supposed to launch like this whole side series of X-Men Origins films? There was an xavier and a Magneto planned (and this is before McAvoy and Fassbender were cast).

[Ezee E]

At least we got Logan out of it.

[Dukefrukem]

Remember how that was supposed to launch like this whole side series of X-Men Origins films? There was an xavier and a Magneto planned (and this is before McAvoy and Fassbender were cast).

Lol yes. I wish I posted my source (http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?2093-X-Men-Origins-Magneto&highlight=magneto).

Also Eric with the super prediction.


I still think Apocalypse is one that could never be translated to film properly.

[Irish]

I cannot imagine how it’s worse than Apocalypse.

That was embarrassing.

The only thing I remember about "Apocalypse" is that someone here --- I think it might have been Duke? --- actually did the math on how far and how fast a person would need to fall from the top of that pyramid to the bottom, as illustrated in the movie.

It was sorta like when Ebert talked about Brendan Fraser's ability to outrun the rising sun in one of the "Mummy" movies.

[Skitch]

X3 is still the worst X-Men film. (Havent seen Weird Phoenix yet tho)

[Milky Joe]

X3 is still the worst X-Men film. (Havent seen Weird Phoenix yet tho)

truth. Origins is a fun watch IMO.

[Skitch]

truth. Origins is a fun watch IMO.

Outside of some obvious effects/tech issues I've not quite understood the overwhelming hate of that flick.

[megladon8]

I don’t understand why his claws were CGI in Origins.

[Dukefrukem]

I don’t understand why his claws were CGI in Origins.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleWeirdAmurratsnake-size_restricted.gif

[bac0n]

The best scene in Origins by far is the Deadpool 2 epilogue.

[Ivan Drago]

The one thing I remember from Apocalypse was the scene where Apocalypse makes himself known to the world by launching nukes and destroying Xavier's school while giving this terrifying speech all while the second movement of Beethoven's seventh symphony plays and gets more and more bombastic as havoc reigns around our heroes. . .

. . .and not a single one dies because Quicksilver freezes time and saves everyone, making the all-powerful entity Apocalypse somehow weaker than the Ultron-ripoff he was beforehand. Talk about a buzzkill.

[Dukefrukem]

There's a scene where Apocalypse turns humans into dust. Why didn't he just do that to the mutants?

[Skitch]

Maybe because he was the first mutant? Maybe he thought of them as his people?

I don't actually know, just throwing stuff out there, I haven't watched it in a while.

[Dukefrukem]

Outside of some obvious effects/tech issues I've not quite understood the overwhelming hate of that flick.

ummmm Deadpool? They put retractable adamantium swords in Deadpool's arms.... How did he bend his elbows?

[megladon8]

The decision to mute a character whose defining characteristic is that he never shuts up.

The decision to try to make it another team up movie when the entire purpose of this movie was to tell a character’s story outside the team dynamic.

Danny Huston.

That awful Wolverine / Sabretooth fight at the end (Sabretooth’s horrible gallop, especially).

So, so many WTF, Stephen Sommers-level CGI moments.

Multiple yelling-NO!-at-the-sky moments.

[Skitch]

ummmm Deadpool? They put retractable adamantium swords in Deadpool's arms.... How did he bend his elbows?

Yeah the Deadpool stuff is pretty indefensible. I usually forget thats in there lol.

I still wonder how Wolvies claws work. They have to be stored in his forearms, right? Otherwise he wouldn't be able to bend his wrist. But if thats so, his wrists would have to be damn straight when they pop or they could come out his palms. Theres also the the deal with just because they're sharp as shit and unbreakable, you'd still have to be insanely strong to hold knives at that angle and cut through solid steel (especially like three inch thick doors and stuff, which he does).

[megladon8]

Yeah the Deadpool stuff is pretty indefensible. I usually forget thats in there lol.

I still wonder how Wolvies claws work. They have to be stored in his forearms, right? Otherwise he wouldn't be able to bend his wrist. But if thats so, his wrists would have to be damn straight when they pop or they could come out his palms. Theres also the the deal with just because they're sharp as shit and unbreakable, you'd still have to be insanely strong to hold knives at that angle and cut through solid steel (especially like three inch thick doors and stuff, which he does).

Well his entire skeleton is adamantium, which is indestructible*. So I assume the leverage he gets from adamantium-on-adamantium gives him the torque to cut through steel.

Besides...have you seen Hugh Jackman? That guy could easily fist-pound Superman himself into the surface of the moon.


*except for alllllllllllllll those times in the comics when it gets melted/destroyed/blown up for X, Y and Z plot convenient reasons.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, if I remember some origin, the only reason he survives with the claws is because of his healing ability, and there is some pain each time he uses the claws. But it eventually becomes expected pain and knowing how to use his wrists to prepare the right way.

[Dukefrukem]

Remember, his mutant ability is bone claws.

[Dukefrukem]

Yikes. X-Men looking at a $34 million opening.

[megladon8]

Yeah, if I remember some origin, the only reason he survives with the claws is because of his healing ability, and there is some pain each time he uses the claws. But it eventually becomes expected pain and knowing how to use his wrists to prepare the right way.

Yeah it hurts every time.

But like Duke said, he already had bone claws. So he didn’t have to learn / do anything new wth the metal ones.

Something that always freaked me out about Wolverine is the idea that he feels everything the same way anyone else would, he just heals from it.

He’s experienced being burned alive, drowning, being shot, cut up, impaled, skinned, scalped...

The idea that these things have become normal sensations to him is...freaking terrifying.

[TGM]

The X-Men movies ranked:
Logan
Deadpool 2
Deadpool
Days of Future Past
First Class
Origins
The Last Stand
X2
X-Men
The Wolverine
Apocalypse
Dark Phoenix

[Ezee E]

Is Dark Phoenix the official end to the X-Men Universe? What an unfortunate way to end what really started the Marvel movies.

[Ezee E]

****
Logan


*** ½
X2

***
Deadpool
X-Men: Days of Future Past


** ½
Deadpool 2
X-Men
X-Men: First Class

**
The Wolverine

*
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
X-Men: Apocalypse
X-Men: The Last Stand


Will probably not see:
Dark Phoenix

[Ezee E]

It's a tough pill seeing that I really only like four out of the 11 (probably 12) movies of the X-Universe. They're definitely my favorite comic franchise, but rarely hit the right stride that I feel is in the comic books.

Nonetheless, it brought us Logan, which pretty much nails what I wanted out of an X-Men movie. It also has real risks, avoids corny humor, and has a real world perspective of mutants that I still think the MCU is completely devoid of.

[TGM]

Is Dark Phoenix the official end to the X-Men Universe? What an unfortunate way to end what really started the Marvel movies.

Technically we’ve still got New Mutants, but I’m pretty sure that’s an entirely new cast of charactes, so yeah, Dark Phoenix appears to be it. Way to go out with a whimper, they shoulda just stopped with Logan.

[Dukefrukem]

and has a real world perspective of mutants that I still think the MCU is completely devoid of.

Well that's true because there are no mutants in the MCU. ;)

[Ezee E]

Well that's true because there are no mutants in the MCU. ;)

But you get what I'm saying right?

And mutants are about to start forming any day now in that world, lol.

[Lazlo]

I'm rewatching them all now and have made it to The Wolverine. Here's my ratings/rankings of the rewatch:

8/10

1. X2
2. X-Men

6.5/10

3. The Wolverine (This one jumped up a lot on rewatch)

6/10

4. X-Men: The Last Stand

5/10

5. X-Men: First Class

2/10

6. X-Men Origins: Wolverine

[Dukefrukem]

My rankings

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/the-x-men-verse-films-ranked/detail/

[Skitch]

My rankings

https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/the-x-men-verse-films-ranked/detail/

Wow you have Apocalypse higher than I thought you would. We've already been over it that our lists would be very close.

[Dukefrukem]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm Donnie Yen up for the role of SHANG-CHI ??????

[Ivan Drago]

Ummmmmmmmmmmm Donnie Yen up for the role of SHANG-CHI ??????

I love this so much.

[megladon8]

That’s cool for sure but, isn’t he a little old?

[Dukefrukem]

Now we just need Stark to minimize the arc reactor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1wEO-pHizQ

[megladon8]

Reading the articles, Donnie Yen is up to be in Shang Chi, but not as the title role.

[Ivan Drago]

Reading the articles, Donnie Yen is up to be in Shang Chi, but not as the title role.

I can see him playing the Fu Manchu expy.

[Dukefrukem]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/06/venom-spider-man-crossover-movie-mcu-kevin-feige-1202151424/

[megladon8]

If Venom doesn’t take place in the MCU, this is going to get way too confusing for audiences.

[Skitch]

Why...no?

[Dukefrukem]

Why...no?

I dont like Sony pushing where characters should go.

[TGM]

Venom doesn’t feel like it fits in the MCU anyhow. I’m 100% against the idea.

[megladon8]

At least if Venom were to be considered part of the MCU, the series would have anew “worst movie”.

[Ezee E]

Wouldn't it be a new Venom anyhow?

How do you suppose they bring the X-Men into this? All new casting? Pre-existing in this world, or does Professor X start it with the Originals?

[Dukefrukem]

Wouldn't it be a new Venom anyhow?

How do you suppose they bring the X-Men into this? All new casting? Pre-existing in this world, or does Professor X start it with the Originals?

Yes all new casting but completely different direction.

They will introduce a shared X-Men Villain in a pre-existing franchise, i.e. Mysterio vs The Fantastic Four / Nova

or

Spin villains off from the Spider-man movies i.e. the Sinister Six - and we need new Avengers to defeat them (introduce new characters that way)

or

Dr Doom is the next Thanos and we all march towards introducing Fantastic Four FIRST and spin off Mutant story lines from there.

[megladon8]

Why did they bother making the Tom Hardy one?

[TGM]

Why did they bother making the Tom Hardy one?

Because they could. And besides which, it was a pretty big financial hit, and fans tended to mostly enjoy it, so it wound up being a good call on their part. And so long as it exists outside the MCU, I’m personally not at all opposed to its existence.

[Dukefrukem]

Because they could. And besides which, it was a pretty big financial hit, and fans tended to mostly enjoy it, so it wound up being a good call on their part. And so long as it exists outside the MCU, I’m personally not at all opposed to its existence.

I'm not either. But the success of that movie just makes Sony drool more over the IPs they still have. And maybe... down the line.... they use it as a negotiation tactic....when Marvel want's to use Spider-man, or Norman Osborn or some other character for the MCU, Sony turns around and says "no because you wouldn't do a Venom crossover with us" and they go back to making their own Spider-man-verse films.

[megladon8]

I’m not opposed to it at all. I just don’t understand the logic.

[megladon8]

Ethics discussion aside, it makes no sense for anyone to try to work against Disney at this point.

Just let Marvel play with their characters, and roll in the cash.

[Dukefrukem]

I wonder how that works.... Sony puts up the money, Marvel controls the writing and directing, and Sony pockets the cash? There must be some kind of revenue sharing right?

Where's Irish I need this explained.

[megladon8]

I’m sure both studios are rolling in money.

Which is why I find it so asinine that anyone fights it at this point.

What Disney is doing is ethically gross and dystopian. But pretty sure studio heads don’t have ethics in mind when making these calls.

[Morris Schæffer]

Why do they keep giving Spider-man the worst fucking posters!? :D



The Spider-man generic poster onslaught continues:

https://media.aintitcool.com/media/_versions/2019/bert_bolger/m74kjnjurn56wfmoii7j_large.jpg

https://media.aintitcool.com/media/_versions/2019/bert_bolger/spider-man-far-from-home-poster-fury-mysterio-2_large.jpg

Christ, that first one is staggeringly awful.

[megladon8]

“I’ve got an idea”

“Awesome! Cause we’re fresh out! Wadda you got?”

“Okay...are you with me on this? A triangle.”

“...”

“A big, green triangle.”

“So does Mysterio control this triangle? Is it his power creating it?”

“Nope. Spider-Man is holding it!”

“Okay but it is well done, right? Like, this big green CGI triangle is done well and he’s clearly holding it?”

“Not a chance! We’ll photoshop it under a photo of Spidey clenching his fist. It’ll be great.”

“Sold!”

[Wryan]

There's literally no reason why that triangle needs to exist in the poster at all. Baffling.

And in the first poster Morris posted, he's got Venice tucked under his arm and London beside him, like some twisted, Jesus-forsaken version of that teleportation ring from the Sonic trailer. And they didn't even let him finish shooting his webbing.

What the fuck all around.

[Grouchy]

Maybe the triangle does have something to do with the plot, or Spidey, Nick and Mysterio are in a dramatic threesome of some kind, heh. But there's no excuse for the half-shot webbing of the other poster. That shit goes to the edge of the page in every Spiderman cover ever published.

[Dukefrukem]

It does.

it's the symbol around Mysterio's powers.

[Irish]

This is clearly the best Spider-man poster: https://www.instagram.com/p/BzEzY8mgr1N/ #lefteyemuthafukkah

[Dukefrukem]

God I want to have a beer with Sam Jackson.

[TGM]

God I want to have a beer with Sam Jackson.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SI_ZgjcmPY

[Skitch]

So what do you guys think? Are they really doing Mysterio as a hero from another Earth? I still think he will be villain.

[Dukefrukem]

I think there's two Mysterios.

[megladon8]

So what do you guys think? Are they really doing Mysterio as a hero from another Earth? I still think he will be villain.

I’m cool with either.

I’m guessing on the other earth he’s a hero, but his actions and agenda on this earth make him a villain to us.

[Ezee E]

So what do you guys think? Are they really doing Mysterio as a hero from another Earth? I still think he will be villain.

Ooh... a Marvel twist!

[TGM]

So what do you guys think? Are they really doing Mysterio as a hero from another Earth? I still think he will be villain.

This is Mysterio, who specializes in illusion. There's no way he's not putting on an act, he's totally gonna be the villain.

[Skitch]

I think there's two Mysterios.

I like this. I considered this as well.

[Skitch]

This is Mysterio, who specializes in illusion. There's no way he's not putting on an act, he's totally gonna be the villain.

I keep coming back to that too. I think I will be disappointed (unless theres two Mysterios, obvs) if hes an actual hero.

"Mysterios" sounds like a cereal you were really looking forward to that turns out mediocre, but leaves some killer good cereal milk.

[Peng]

There having another Earth would be a way to bring just-acquired heroes to the MCU, yes?

[Dukefrukem]

There having another Earth would be a way to bring just-acquired heroes to the MCU, yes?

Yes. So many possibilities.

[Skitch]

There having another Earth would be a way to bring just-acquired heroes to the MCU, yes?

Oh I'm totally for that. I assume its the easiest way to fold everything in. It writes itself.

[TGM]

I still like the fan theory that suggested that gamma radiation from the Hulk being the one to snap everyone back to life is how mutants become introduced in the MCU.

[Ezee E]

I still like the fan theory that suggested that gamma radiation from the Hulk being the one to snap everyone back to life is how mutants become introduced in the MCU.

I can get down with that.

[Dukefrukem]

I can too.

And it would also be a great way to intro She Hulk / Gray Hulk / Red Hulk etc.

[Dukefrukem]

RT scores

Iron Man 3 (2013) - 79%
Thor: The Dark World (2013) - 66%
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - 90%
Guardians of the Galaxy (2014) - 91%
Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015) - 75%
Ant-Man (2015) - 82%
Captain America: Civil War (2016) - 91%
Doctor Strange (2016) - 89%
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017) - 84%

---------------Demotion of Ike Perlmutter----------

Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017) - 92%
Thor: Ragnarok (2017) - 93%
Black Panther (2018) - 97%
Avengers: Infinity War (2018) - 85%
Ant-Man and the Wasp (2018) - 88%
Captain Marvel (2019) - 78%
Avengers: Endgame (2019) - 94%
Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019) - 92%

[Morris Schæffer]

Yup. Scores good spiderman.

[Dukefrukem]

I also find it interesting as just the overall review boost after Fiege was given free reign to hire whomever he wanted for this projects. i.e. Watts, Watiti, Cooglar

[megladon8]

We need a She Hulk movie.

Like, badly.

[Grouchy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrDBJPe_ZWA

[Dukefrukem]

We need a She Hulk movie.

Like, badly.

I'm betting on this.

[Dukefrukem]

T-minus 6 days.

Hall H: 5:15 - 6:45 PST

"Marvel Studios president and producer Kevin Feige and surprise panelists provide an inside look at the ever-expanding Marvel Cinematic Universe."

[Dukefrukem]

1149849066773180416

[Skitch]

I love when Hollywood people are honest. Holy shit.

[Ezee E]

Don't remember anything about Psylocke in that movie either, lol.

[Dukefrukem]

Don't remember anything about Psylocke in that movie either, lol.

She's barely used. Less than three minutes of screen-time. And after she serves her "purpose" in the film, she sulks away never to be seen again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc9JFpmaQyE

[Dukefrukem]

T-minus 6 days.

Hall H: 5:15 - 6:45 PST

"Marvel Studios president and producer Kevin Feige and surprise panelists provide an inside look at the ever-expanding Marvel Cinematic Universe."

Well I was off by a week, but we are starting to get more news.

Taika Waititi confirmed to direct Thor 4. With the new Anime and Akira taking a back seat.

https://deadline.com/2019/07/taika-waititi-thor-chris-hemsworth-1202647108/

[megladon8]

HA!

Akira is NEVER HAPPENING. They need to move on!

[Dukefrukem]

You win this round.

[Skitch]

Like I've said before, I'll believe it when cameras roll. Sounds like its dead in the water.

[Irish]

Somebody fill me in on the next Marvel phase?

I thought they would retire the original Avengers and make movies based on the new cast --- Captain Marvel, Scarlett Witch, War Machine, that dude with the wings, etc.

Why are they making Thor 4? Was the part of the original plan?

(Bear in mind that I haven not seen "Endgame.")

[Ezee E]

I figured it'd be a Thor and the Guardians combo movie. Maybe still is.

[Milky Joe]

from what I understand Phase 4 will be more cosmic. Thor is the most bankable cosmic character they have. why WOULDN'T they make Thor 4?

[TGM]

Somebody fill me in on the next Marvel phase?

I thought they would retire the original Avengers and make movies based on the new cast --- Captain Marvel, Scarlett Witch, War Machine, that dude with the wings, etc.

Why are they making Thor 4? Was the part of the original plan?

(Bear in mind that I haven not seen "Endgame.")

Most of the originals are retired after Endgame. Thor was key among those who were left open for future installments, teasing a team-up with him and the GotG, and technically they could still do something with Hulk or Hawkeye if they wanted, though I would expect only supporting roles if anything. Plus there’s the Black Widow prequel movie in the works. But otherwise, Cap and Iron Man are both done done.

As of now though, all the future movies in the MCU are currently just listed as “untitled MCU movie” or something like that. We know GotG3 is also in the works, but there hasn’t been any sort of timeline for release for anything just yet. So it’s kinda all up in the air right now.

[TGM]

I figured it'd be a Thor and the Guardians combo movie. Maybe still is.

That’s what I would’ve also figured, but James Gunn is already confirmed to direct GotG3, so these are definitely separate movies. So unless their cross over happens in one of the two? *shrug*

[Dukefrukem]

Somebody fill me in on the next Marvel phase?

I thought they would retire the original Avengers and make movies based on the new cast --- Captain Marvel, Scarlett Witch, War Machine, that dude with the wings, etc.

Why are they making Thor 4? Was the part of the original plan?

(Bear in mind that I haven not seen "Endgame.")

Nothing has been officially announced by Marvel/Disney yet other than the streaming TV shows on DIsney+

This Sat all will be revealed.

[TGM]

With Endgame wrapping things up for the most part though, I don’t think I’ll be seeing EVERY Marvel movie that comes out anymore necessarily. Far From Home (which finally beat out Iron Man 2 as my least favorite MCU film to date) confirmed for me that that’s no longer necessary. I’ll see GotG3, but Taiki Waititi returning for Thor 4 instantly kills my interest for that one. The Guardians being involved in the movie is the only thing that could possibly revive my interest in that one at this point. But yeah, otherwise, it’s gonna be case by case. One thing for sure though, I will NEVER watch another MCU Spider-Man movie again. Sony needs to stop worrying about getting Venom in the MCU, and instead figure out a way to take the Spidey rights away from Marvel again and keep doing their own thing, IMO.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh you're in the minority on that one. How you think Disney's control of Spider-man is a bad thing is absolutely bonkers after TASM1 & 2. What makes you think Sony could ever do better than Marvel again?

[transmogrifier]

I’ll see GotG3, but Taiki Waititi returning for Thor 4 instantly kills my interest for that one..

Waititi's involvement means I guess I'll be watching one more Marvel movie at the theaters at least.

[Irish]

Nothing has been officially announced by Marvel/Disney yet other than the streaming TV shows on DIsney+

This Sat all will be revealed.

Most of the originals are retired after Endgame. Thor was key among those who were left open for future installments, teasing a team-up with him and the GotG, and technically they could still do something with Hulk or Hawkeye if they wanted, though I would expect only supporting roles if anything. Plus there’s the Black Widow prequel movie in the works. But otherwise, Cap and Iron Man are both done done.

As of now though, all the future movies in the MCU are currently just listed as “untitled MCU movie” or something like that. We know GotG3 is also in the works, but there hasn’t been any sort of timeline for release for anything just yet. So it’s kinda all up in the air right now.

This seems crazy. Predictions?

[TGM]

Yeh you're in the minority on that one. How you think Disney's control of Spider-man is a bad thing is absolutely bonkers after TASM1 & 2. What makes you think Sony could ever do better than Marvel again?

I know I'm in the minority, but I seriously just can't stand the MCU's take on the property. Amazing Spider-Man may have been a mess (well, the second one at least), but they still had moments that I liked, which were powerful enough to stand out among the wreckage, and I was still left interested to see where the story would go. FFH meanwhile leaves me feeling like I can just quit and be done with it without missing a thing now. I don't care, because I hate what they've done with the character.

I'd be hyped for a Raimi Spider-Man 4 though, or an Amazing Spider-Man 3. Or hell, Spider-Verse, yeah, I'll take more of that. I quite enjoyed what they did with that one, too.

[Ezee E]

So:
Black Widow
Thor
Guardians of the Galaxy 3
Dr Strange 2
Black Panther 2
Shang-Chi
Captain Marvel 2

Lots of cosmos as stated, so makes sense for Galactus. Maybe Marvel holds down on X-Men/Fantastic Four until after this phase to garner interest?
As it stands, I'm like TGM in that I won't see anything "sight unseen," at this point. This even includes GoTG.

[Peng]

The Amazing Spider-Man is yet another beyond-tired origin story told in the most bland, dumb way so far (and the climax of cranes swinging to line up for Spider-Man to go by almost made me groan out loud in theater), while its sequel gets even worse by becoming Michael Bay-ish schizophrenic in tones and multiple storylines.

I wish the MCU version would untangle itself from Iron Man (hopefully FFH would be the last) and have a bit more intensity of heart like the Raimi films (and a more capable director in term of bigger scale and action than Watts, even though he's really, really good in the Peter Parker/teenage side of thing), but they're league better than Webb's. Also Holland is the best live-action incarnation of Spider-Man on screen easily.

[TGM]

The best thing Tom Holland’s done as the character is die in Infinity War. Dude’s insufferable. :p

[Dukefrukem]

This seems crazy. Predictions?

I thought you'd never ask...

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page213&p=601785&viewfull=1#post601785

My updated list after yesterday's news


Black Widow & Hawkeye Teamup: May 1, 2020 (this makes total sense given the runway and 12 month production window)
Shang-Chi: 11/6/20

Doctor Strange 2 (Namor Introduced) 2/12/21
Black Panther 2 5/7/21
Eternals 11/5/21

Captain Marvel 2: 2022
Namor the Sub-Mariner: 2022
Avengers: Secret Invasion 2022

Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (Adam Warlock Introduced) 2023
Dark Avengers 2023



Black Widow & Hawkeye : May 1, 2020 (this makes total sense given the runway and 12 month production window)
Shang-Chi: 11/6/20

Doctor Strange 2 (Namor Introduced) 2/12/21
Black Panther 2 5/7/21
Eternals 11/5/21

Captain Marvel 2: 2022
Namor the Sub-Mariner: 2022
Avengers: Secret Invasion 2022

Thor 4 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (Adam Warlock Introduced) 2023

[Dukefrukem]

The best thing Tom Holland’s done as the character is die in Infinity War. Dude’s insufferable. :p

Said no one ever

[TGM]

Except this guy. :cool:

[Ezee E]

Figure Thor and GoTG have to be much quicker turnaround than Duke's prediction considering the directors have already been named.

[Dukefrukem]

Figure Thor and GoTG have to be much quicker turnaround than Duke's prediction considering the directors have already been named.

I'm factoring in that James Gunn needs to finish Suicide Squad, Marvel needing to rearrange movies due to Gunn's temporary firing ( GotG3 was originally to be released next year) and the fan reaction of a Thor + Guardians type of movie.

[Ezee E]

I'm factoring in that James Gunn needs to finish Suicide Squad, Marvel needing to rearrange movies due to Gunn's temporary firing ( GotG3 was originally to be released next year) and the fan reaction of a Thor + Guardians type of movie.

Ah, good call. maybe GotG3 stays to 2023 then, and they get Thor/Guards ready for 2021. That's the one I'm the most curious about. I figure Taika gets started on that a little after Jojo Rabbit and the Oscars.

Is there a director for Shang-Chi?

[Dukefrukem]

Destin Daniel Cretton is attached. I'm not familiar with any of his past work.

[Grouchy]

Count me as bummed that Thor and GotG are separate franchises. It seemed like a great combo, specially with Gunn writing and directing it.

As for Spiderman, I haven't seen Far From Home yet but Homecoming was definitively a step up from what Sony was doing. It's not a great film but it does have great scenes like the one with Keaton and Holland driving Gwen to the prom. That scene alone is already better than both Amazing Spidermans.

[Grouchy]

Destin Daniel Cretton is attached. I'm not familiar with any of his past work.
Short Term 12 was a solid drama. Like Lucrecia Martel revealed on an interview, the directors picked for the MCU don't actually direct the action scenes for the most part. She was startled to learn this after entering talks for Black Widow.

[Dukefrukem]

Short Term 12 was a solid drama. Like Lucrecia Martel revealed on an interview, the directors picked for the MCU don't actually direct the action scenes for the most part. She was startled to learn this after entering talks for Black Widow.

Which makes sense. Unless there is a director that has a really good eye for it (like Whedon or the Russos) let the hired director direct the scenes that matter, let them mold and shape the film by injecting the culture and dialog that they were hired to do, and let some 2nd team work on the fast stuff.

[Skitch]

The Amazing Spider-Man is my favorite Spidey movie. The Amazing Spider-Man 2 is the worst, but has some great scenes. I've no issue with Holland, other than I like when the character is out of high school. That's not on him though.

[Grouchy]

Which makes sense. Unless there is a director that has a really good eye for it (like Whedon or the Russos) let the hired director direct the scenes that matter, let them mold and shape the film by injecting the culture and dialog that they were hired to do, and let some 2nd team work on the fast stuff.
Makes sense in the context of a production model like Marvel's where the directors are largely slaves to the plans of the producers. I'm not saying this is a necessarily bad thing (it has given us some great movies) but I think it's a bit weird to approach auteur directors like Martel and tell them they are not going to direct the entirety of their own movie. I'm sure the sudden departure of names like Joss Whedon or Edgar Wright had a lot to do with this.

I mean, for a compromised filmmaker who thinks of what he does as art, I can see how it's borderline offensive. Every scene of a film they made is supposed to be a "scene that matters".

[transmogrifier]

Which makes sense. Unless there is a director that has a really good eye for [action] (like Whedon or the Russos)....


Uh, I'm not sure I agree with your police work there, Lou.

One of the reasons I'm sick of the MCU is that the action shot so poorly, especially by these guys. Compared it to something like the Mission Impossible franchise, and MCU action is all just boring blur and fast cutting and magic interventions. So, so, so boring.

[TGM]

I wonder if that explains why the action scenes in Black Panther were as shockingly poor as they were, despite having Ryan Coogler at the helm.

[Dukefrukem]

Uh, I'm not sure I agree with your police work there, Lou.

One of the reasons I'm sick of the MCU is that the action shot so poorly, especially by these guys. Compared it to something like the Mission Impossible franchise, and MCU action is all just boring blur and fast cutting and magic interventions. So, so, so boring.

Let me be clear- The ending to Ultron was a massive-bad-guy-stew-mess.

But Iron Man vs Thor was perfect. THAT one shot was perfect.

And, the Russos, this scene and this scene are two of the best action sequences in the MCU. You'll probably respond with "yeh that's right they are the best sequences and they are also still bad which shows you how bad all of the action is in the MCU"- but I humbly and respectively disagree.

The Black Panther finale was also very very bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwFd1G6_U4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK3e8m_xcXw

[Dukefrukem]

My new favorite Youtube Channel, these guys go into detail on what probably happened in that Black Panther finale. TLDW: Time was a factor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWnRuPZ1Exg

[TGM]

I wouldn’t personally choose those 2 for my favorites, though my favorite fight scenes do still come from the Russos all the same:

Iron Man vs Cap and Bucky - Civil War
Iron Man vs Thanos - Infinity War

Also a big fan of the final action sequences to Iron Man 3 and Thor 2. Those showed a level of creativity and inspiration we haven’t seen too much of in a lot of the action sequences since.

[Ezee E]

Captain America/Buck VS. Iron Man is easily my favorite out of the fights.

As mentioned, the directors of the movie also directed the action!

I would hope that whoever gets to direct Shang-Chi gets to do the same.

[megladon8]

The Winter Soldier is one of the best action movies of the decade.

[Dukefrukem]

I thought you'd never ask...

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page213&p=601785&viewfull=1#post601785

My updated list after yesterday's news





Black Widow & Hawkeye : May 1, 2020 (this makes total sense given the runway and 12 month production window)
Shang-Chi: 11/6/20

Doctor Strange 2 (Namor Introduced) 2/12/21
Black Panther 2 5/7/21
Eternals 11/5/21

Captain Marvel 2: 2022
Namor the Sub-Mariner: 2022
Avengers: Secret Invasion 2022

Thor 4 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (Adam Warlock Introduced) 2023

I just realized that I don't have a Spider-man 3 movie here. So sub out Namor for Spider-man 3.

T-minus a couple of hours.

[Dukefrukem]

I thought you'd never ask...

http://matchcut.artboiled.com/showthread.php?3223-The-Marvel-Sony-Superhero-Movies-Thread/page213&p=601785&viewfull=1#post601785

My updated list after yesterday's news





Black Widow & Hawkeye : May 1, 2020 (this makes total sense given the runway and 12 month production window)
Shang-Chi: 11/6/20

Doctor Strange 2 (Namor Introduced) 2/12/21
Black Panther 2 5/7/21
Eternals 11/5/21

Captain Marvel 2: 2022
Spider-man 3: Back Home: 2022
Avengers: Secret Invasion 2022

Thor 4 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (Adam Warlock Introduced) 2023

First movie revealed to be Eternals on 11/6/20

Richard Madden as Icarus, Kumail Nanjiani, Lauren Ridloff, Brian Tyree Henry (Fastos), and the leader of the Eternals Salma Hayek, Lia McHugh and Don Lee as Gilgamesh and Angelina Jolie

https://deadline.com/2019/07/the-eternals-details-unveiled-at-marvels-comic-con-panel-angelina-jolie-surprises-hall-h-pic-opening-nov-2020-1202649881/


Black Widow & Hawkeye : May 1, 2020 (this makes total sense given the runway and 12 month production window)
Eternals 11/6/20

Doctor Strange 2 (Namor Introduced) 2/12/21
Black Panther 2 5/7/21
Eternals 11/5/21

Captain Marvel 2: 2022
Spider-man 3: Back Home: 2022
Avengers: Secret Invasion 2022

Thor 4 2023
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3 (Adam Warlock Introduced) 2023

1152739611933700096

[Dukefrukem]

Oh shit. The Mandarin returns?

1152742632818241539

[Dukefrukem]

So far I'm nailing the movies. Just not the dates.

1152746821396996096
1152747190332166144

[Dukefrukem]

1152747705321439233

[Dukefrukem]

Wanda Vision series events will tie into Doctor Strange 2. Olsen will also be in the movie.

[Dukefrukem]

Wow Portman returns? Wtf?

1152751070122147840
1152751492555669504

[Dukefrukem]

Oh wow. Female Thor will be introduced.

[Dukefrukem]

Hey I got a date right.

1152752472177274881

[Dukefrukem]

So that's it I guess (other than the stuff i posted on Disney+). Not going to announce the 2022 or 2023 dates. Strategic I think; so people sign up for Disney+ and watch the series.

Black Widow: May 1, 2020
Eternals 11/6/20

Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings) 2/12/21
Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness 5/7/21
Thor Love and Thunder 11/5/21

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_9qUZ0U4AIRxZZ.jpg:large

[Dukefrukem]

Oh shit. No it wasn't done.

1152756007036018688

[Dukefrukem]

Sounds like they are saving stuff for D23?

At the end Kevin said they didn't even get to Captain Marvel 2, Black Panther 2, Fantastic Four and...mutants!!

[Skitch]

That Thor title card is so damn cool. Looks like an arcade placard for an 80s fantasy game.

Blade casting holy shit

[Irish]

Sounds like they are saving stuff for D23?

At the end Kevin said they didn't even get to Captain Marvel 2, Black Panther 2, Fantastic Four and...mutants!!

Did Feige actually say the words "Fantastic Four" in front of the audience? Interesting.

[Dukefrukem]

He did.

[Peng]

Biggest news for me is that Tony Leung is now in MCU!!!

[Peng]

According to THR, Blade is happening because Ali wanted it. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/mahershala-ali-star-blade-marvel-1225888)


Speaking to THR after the presentation, Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige said that Ali called the studio after winning the Oscar for his work Green Book. "When Marhershala calls, you answer," Feige said. At the meeting, Ali came right out and said that he wanted to do Blade. That was that.

dat clout. Love it lol.

[Ezee E]

Ali as Blade is pretty sweet. I hope that becomes the second "scary Marvel movie."

Pretty curious on the What If series... Seems like they could pull in a lot of characters that you wouldn't think about.

What's Wanda Vision?

No talk on Winter Soldier??

Kumail Nanjani... ugh.

[Skitch]

I love Kumail but its gonna be pretty darn hard for me to take him serious in a role.

[Ivan Drago]

Biggest news for me is that Tony Leung is now in MCU!!!

Yeah, Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings is my most anticipated thing in the MCU right now.

[TGM]

Yeah, pretty safe to say that I’m out at this point. Literally none of those announcements do anything for me. >.>

[MadMan]

TGM, I like you but hating on Tom Holland is crazy. He is great as Spidey.

Also yeah all of this is a lot to take in. I'm most excited for Black Panther 2, Thor 4 and GOTG 3.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeah, Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings is my most anticipated thing in the MCU right now.

I'm just happy they are not squandering good Marvel villains. (Zemo, Mandarin)

[Skitch]

I'm just happy they are not squandering good Marvel villains. (Zemo, Mandarin)

Well we haven't seen Mandarin yet. As of now he remains squandered imo. And after Endgame we won't ever see a Mandarin/Iron Man face off.

[Dukefrukem]

Well we haven't seen Mandarin yet. As of now he remains squandered imo. And after Endgame we won't ever see a Mandarin/Iron Man face off.

Well I'm obviously talking about Iron Man 3 here.

[TGM]

I still like what they did with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. >.>

[Milky Joe]

Iron Man 3 is one of the best MCU movies easily

Female Thor sounds really bad.

[Skitch]

Iron Man 3 is one of the best MCU movies easily


Bottom three for me. I know, I'm in the minority.

[TGM]

Bottom three for me. I know, I'm in the minority.

I’m not sure that you really are, though. That’s still one of the most polarizing MCU movies. Like, I actually still get pleasantly surprised when I encounter someone else who actually DID like it. :p

[Ezee E]

Well, I guess Female Thor answers our idea of Thor/Guardians, assuming that ManThor is sort of a secondary character, if involved at all.

[Morris Schæffer]

Oh boy end game surpassed avatar!!!

[Skitch]

I’m not sure that you really are, though. That’s still one of the most polarizing MCU movies. Like, I actually still get pleasantly surprised when I encounter someone else who actually DID like it. :p

I think everyone here is a fan of it.

[Milky Joe]

it's one of the only ones that feels made by a human instead of a committee

[Skitch]

it's one of the only ones that feels made by a human instead of a committee

I get the opposite reaction. Feels very committee.

[Milky Joe]

I mean it feels like a Shane Black movie. Not sure how you can get a committee feel out of that when movies like Doctor Strange or Thor 2 exist

[Skitch]

Me saying I feel like its a committee movie does not = me saying other random movies we haven't brought to the discussion also don't feel like committee movies. C'mon.

[Grouchy]

Well, I guess Female Thor answers our idea of Thor/Guardians, assuming that ManThor is sort of a secondary character, if involved at all.
I think that's it, right? They're doing the girl version for the solo movie and Thor is part of the Guardians on their movie.

[Milky Joe]

Me saying I feel like its a committee movie does not = me saying other random movies we haven't brought to the discussion also don't feel like committee movies. C'mon.

And that's not what I was saying you were saying...

[megladon8]

I still like what they did with the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. >.>

Agreed.

I almost universally love when they do something different and unexpected.

Even if it doesn’t work, I am glad they tried.

[megladon8]

Also here’s hoping they handle the kung fu in Shang Chi better than what they did in Iron fist.

[Skitch]

And that's not what I was saying you were saying...

Where's Irish? Hey Irish, this is why I lose my shit from time to time. This style of arguing makes me insane.

[Dukefrukem]

https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/eternals_19627_v1.jpg

[MadMan]

That's a nice picture.

Iron Man 3 rocks.

[Ivan Drago]

Also I'm surprised Natalie Portman's coming back to play Female Thor, if only because I always thought she was above franchise filmmaking in this day and age. But whatever floats her boat or finances her passion projects is good for her, so I guess more power to her.

[Peng]

I think she only backed out of MCU and further blockbusters because Patty Jenkins, her director of choice for Thor 2 and the reason she signed on the sequel, was done dirty by Marvel and changed after the fact.

[megladon8]

Anyone else thinking that X-Men and Fantastic Four will end up being Disney+ shows?

[Dukefrukem]

Anyone else thinking that X-Men and Fantastic Four will end up being Disney+ shows?

No chance other than mini-spin offs like we are seeing with Loki etc.

[Irish]

Where's Irish? Hey Irish, this is why I lose my shit from time to time. This style of arguing makes me insane.

Wait, what? Why am I getting dragged into this? :D

Anyway, look on the bright side: you and Joe agree that 2 out of 3 Marvel movies are formulaic!

[bac0n]

I don't know about you all, but the thing that excites me most about these announcements is the idea of F4 coming into the MCU - particularly because of their rather amazing rogues gallery: Galactus, Annihilus, Dr. Doom, Terminus, Mole Man. So many to pick from...

[Dukefrukem]

Hmm

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0d5PLhBGaB/?utm_source=ig_embed

[MadMan]

I don't know about you all, but the thing that excites me most about these announcements is the idea of F4 coming into the MCU - particularly because of their rather amazing rogues gallery: Galactus, Annihilus, Dr. Doom, Terminus, Mole Man. So many to pick from...

Only if the MCU does not screw it up. Third time might be the charm.

[Dukefrukem]

Only if the MCU does not screw it up. Third time might be the charm.

When has the MCU screwed anything up?

[bac0n]

Endgame Directors Think Keanu Reeves Would Make A Good Moon Knight (https://screenrant.com/keanu-reeves-moon-knight-mcu-russos/)

MAKE IT HAPPEN, DUKE.

[Dukefrukem]

Endgame Directors Think Keanu Reeves Would Make A Good Moon Knight (https://screenrant.com/keanu-reeves-moon-knight-mcu-russos/)

MAKE IT HAPPEN, DUKE.

As if I have any control over this decision?

[bac0n]

I WANT RESULTS NOT EXCUSES

[MadMan]

When has the MCU screwed anything up?

I was referring to the previous Fantastic Four movies. And well Thor 2 and Incredible Hulk were merely decent films at best, soooo...

[Dukefrukem]

I was referring to the previous Fantastic Four movies. And well Thor 2 and Incredible Hulk were merely decent films at best, soooo...

sooooo your point being? You're afraid of what the MCU has done 6 and 11 years ago?

[Dukefrukem]

Oh wow. I remember seeing this in theaters. They finally restored it after all these years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPL7UWN_hcM

[Morris Schæffer]

Andy Serkis directs Venom 2.

[Skitch]

For real??

[Ezee E]

Could mean Serkis would play Carnage as well. lol.

[megladon8]

Ummm...ok?

[Ivan Drago]

He's above the material.

[Grouchy]

Could mean Serkis would play Carnage as well. lol.
Carnage was Woody Harrelson in a post-credits scene.

[Peng]

He's above the material.

In term of acting, yeah (although Hardy is also overqualified and that turns out best for the film). But his past two films as directors seem he's about even for this.

[Ezee E]

Carnage was Woody Harrelson in a post-credits scene.

Ha. Didn't realize that. Love that casting though.

[Dukefrukem]

X-Men and Fantastic 4 I'm not surprised, but Deadpool I am. If they somehow pull off an R-Rated Deadpool under the Marvel Studios brand... it's impossible right? First R-Rated Disney movie ever?

1158843698253189120

[Ezee E]

It's always been a Disney-owned studio that made R-Rated movies, but I don't think any R-rated movie starts off with the Disney logo.

[Irish]

Duke is obsessed with R-rated Disney. At this point, I don't think he'll be satisfied until he sees Minnie Mouse's tits.

;)

[megladon8]

Marvel movies don’t start with the Disney logo.

Wasn’t there already confirmation that Black Widow is rated R?

[Dukefrukem]

Just rumors. Keep in mind Venom was rumored to be rated R too.

BTW, i would go see Minnie Mouse's tits.

[Irish]

Marvel movies don’t start with the Disney logo.

They might not display their logo before Marvel movies, but they might as well. Any IP that Disney adds to its theme parks (Marvel, LucasFilm) will be naturally associated with the overall brand. Disney knows this.

[Dukefrukem]

There's some clever match-cutting here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N43uHE0SnDE

[TGM]

Looks like Spidey’s officially out:

1163906622655225856

[Skitch]

Here comes Spidey v Venom: Dawn of Just Us

[Milky Joe]

1163915180801175560

[Skitch]

Disney: "Its ok Kevin, we have [insert deep pull Marvel character no normie ever heard of]."

*5 minutes later*

A billion dollars

[Milky Joe]

I am fairly certain they will work something out. Disney overplayed their hand and Sony called them on it. They've put waaay too much into building Peter Parker as Tony's successor to just give up on the character.

[Ezee E]

Wonder what kind of contract Holland had.

[Skitch]

[opening credits, Venom swinging through NY, chasing thief. Thief bumps into Uncle Ben, shooting him, continues to run. Peter Parker (younger actor) holds Uncle Ben, looks up at Venom swinging away, and screams NOOOooo!]

VENOM 2

5 Years Later

Act 1

[Daytime. Spider-Man swings into his NY loft funded by gf Mary Jane (Demi Lovato). He takes of his mask revealing a 5 o'clock shadowed Ben Barnes.]

Peter: "I'll never find him, MJ!"
MJ: "Sure you will, Tiger!"

Act 2

[Spider-Man blames Venom for a bunch of serial killer deaths. Venom claims he only kills bad guys.Spider-Man and Venom fight and argue.]

Act 3

[Spider-Man and Venom join forces to take down Carnage. Venom slips away when Spidey's back is turned. Spider-Man looks to the horizon.]

End credits.

[Mid-credits stinger. Nighttime. Camera pushes in on a dark figure's back on a rooftop, hes watching a tv in a store window across the street. J.J.J. (Gary Oldman) on tv claiming Spider-Man and Venom are both friends with Carnage, other wise who is sucking the blood of these people downtown?? Jared Leto's Morbius smiles and jumps straight up out of frame and doesn't land.]

CREDITS


[End end credits scene. Kraven the Hunter (John Cena) picks up some webbing left behind by Spider-Man. He smells it. He smiles.]

The entire world collectively groans.

[Dukefrukem]

Wonder what kind of contract Holland had.

Six picture deal

[Dukefrukem]

I dont see this as a big deal for Disney. They may have asked for the moon but they have the track record and team to execute on it. Far From Home will be the highest grossing Sony film ever. As Skitch said, Disney has 37 other characters they can plug in and fast track if they want. It's too bad as it looks like they were trying to work something out for D23. It also would have been cool to see what the implications are during the ending of Far From Home in the MCU, but life goes on.

[Irish]

The original Deadline headline and article are so poorly written that at first glance I thought this meant no more Spider-man. But it sounds as if Sony is confident going alone and will make more sequels now that Marvel has done the heavy work.

I'd like to know the details on the original deal, like who paid for "Homecoming" and "Far From Home." Deadline's article implied Marvel footed the bill and received little in return.

Disney can promote another obscure character and it'll be fine, I guess, but that's also how we wound up with 2 "Ant-Man" films. Feige can make anything a "success," at least by the standards of the trades, but will anybody in the audience be excited about it?

I mean, this is how mainstream Spider-man is, and has been for decades: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ml-I3QwNLY

I think this matters and it's on executive minds because name recognition ties into advertising costs, ie promoting a new character is more expensive than promoting one that's already a household name.

[Grouchy]

Wow, that's a head scratcher. I mean, say what you will about the vastness of the Marvel universe, but after Far From Home, Peter Parker was understandably set up to be a major player on Phase 3. I wonder where this leaves Watts and Holland.

Also, which studio was mainly responsible for Spider-Verse​?

[Milky Joe]

Also, which studio was mainly responsible for Spider-Verse​?

Sony.

[megladon8]

So all this work to make Spidey the new Iron Man / central figure of the MCU was for nothing?

This was (uncharacteristically) very poorly planned.

[Dukefrukem]

Peter Parker was way too young to replace Tony Stark guys. If anything they can do something with Black Panther or Shuri now as the new Tony Stark. Also, don't count out the introduction of Ironheart.

[Ivan Drago]

The fact that there are fans organizing boycotts on Sony’s future film projects and clamoring for Disney to purchase their film studios just to put Spider-Man back in the MCU is equal parts idiotic, frightening and sad.

If this results in anything bad happening to Sony, Hollywood should just close up shop and start over.

[Ezee E]

Black Panther and Captain Marvel are probably the new face of MCU, at least until the new X-Men come in.

[Dukefrukem]

The fact that there are fans organizing boycotts on Sony’s future film projects and clamoring for Disney to purchase their film studios just to put Spider-Man back in the MCU is equal parts idiotic, frightening and sad.

If this results in anything bad happening to Sony, Hollywood should just close up shop and start over.

Out of everything in 2019, this surprises me the least. It's not even worth discussing.

It's also been reported (somewhere I can't find it now) that Feige had some involvement with the Venom movie and that apparently it was a train-wreck long before the final cut was made.

Oh i found it:

"When contacted by io9, a Sony representative said it’s their belief this dispute is simply over a producer credit and negotiations are ongoing. They further clarified that Feige has contributed to other Spider-centric movies that he did not receive a producer credit on."

https://io9.gizmodo.com/spider-man-will-no-longer-be-shared-by-marvel-and-sony-1837416155

[Irish]

Peter Parker was way too young to replace Tony Stark guys.

I think it's more about RDJ. He was a huge draw. (I'm waiting to see if my pet theory comes true: That the MCU is nothing without Downey Jr, surrounded by the original cast, and interest in these movies will drop now that he's finally exited the franchise.)


If anything they can do something with Black Panther or Shuri now as the new Tony Stark.

Only if Ava Duvernay replaces Kevin Feige as the head of Marvel Studios.


Also, don't count out the introduction of Ironheart.

Uh ... yeah. Who?

[megladon8]

Ironheart is the young female Iron Man introduced in the comics a couple of years back.

And Duke - regarding Spidey’s age, I’m not saying he was going to replace Stark as the leader of the team. I’m saying it very much seemed like they were setting him up to take the Stark mantle and perhaps be the face of the overall franchise.

[Grouchy]

Yeah, they went with a young Tony Stark angle. And they left some huge cliffhangers at the end of FFH. It's obvious the character was important for the architecture of the MCU.

[Dukefrukem]

Ironheart is the young female Iron Man introduced in the comics a couple of years back.

And Duke - regarding Spidey’s age, I’m not saying he was going to replace Stark as the leader of the team. I’m saying it very much seemed like they were setting him up to take the Stark mantle and perhaps be the face of the overall franchise.

When I said age, I was just referring to everything that comes with it. His leadership, comedic timing, 'face of the franchise' as you say... all of it. I dont really think that was the point of introducing Spider-man. I saw more of a setup as the face with Captain Marvel (albeit poorly done) and Black Panther rather than SPidey.

[Dukefrukem]

I think it's more about RDJ. He was a huge draw. (I'm waiting to see if my pet theory comes true: That the MCU is nothing without Downey Jr, surrounded by the original cast, and interest in these movies will drop now that he's finally exited the franchise.)


There will be a drop. But you have to look at it comparably with the first Cap, Thor and Iron Man films... rather than whatever the last release was.


Will Shang-Chi gross more than the first Cap film? Yes.

[Ezee E]

Shang-Chi is probably being designed to be the biggest international movie that isn't called Avengers.

[Irish]

But you have to look at it comparably with the first Cap, Thor and Iron Man films... rather than whatever the last release was.

Not sure that's a fair comparison. Disney hedged with their initial slate; those movies had relatively smaller budgets and most of em didn't play China.

Besides, expectations are bound to be higher after nearly 2 dozen entries into the franchise.

[Dukefrukem]

Not sure that's a fair comparison. Disney hedged with their initial slate; those movies had relatively smaller budgets and most of em didn't play China.

Besides, expectations are bound to be higher after nearly 2 dozen entries into the franchise.

The branding is there, but the stars are not.

Thor made 181/500 mil dom/ww.

I would expect Shang-Chi to do 200/600
Eternals 250/650
Black Widow 280/700

[Irish]

The branding is there, but the stars are not.

I think your numbers are probably right.

But which stars do you mean? "Shang-chi" has Tony Leung (presumably as the villain?), "Eternals" has Angelina Jolie, "Black Widow" has ScarJo.

[Milky Joe]

They were absolutely grooming Spider-Man to be the new Tony Stark. You're deranged if you don't see that.

And now they're unleashing their bot army to demonize Sony. I think they want to kill Sony film division, that might've been what this is all about.

https://twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1164079850950397952

[Dukefrukem]

I think your numbers are probably right.

But which stars do you mean? "Shang-chi" has Tony Leung (presumably as the villain?), "Eternals" has Angelina Jolie, "Black Widow" has ScarJo.

Which is why I give Black Widow the highest gross. Ethernals is more of an ensemble film and based on the numbers that Salt and Wanted did, I dont see Jolie creating a huge gross. Hell even Maleficent only did 241.

And no one knows who Tony Leung is just like no one knew who Chris Hemsworth was.

[Irish]

Tony Leung is one of the biggest movie stars across Asia. He's like Tom Cruise god level. (I mean, that's why he's in the movie. Ezee was spot on when he said "Shang-chi" felt designed to be international.)

I think "Black Widow" might do a little more because there's a dearth of female-led action movies. Plus, people dig ScarJo doing genre stuff. It'll be good if she stops talking to the press, tho.

Good point about Jolie.

I looked at the numbers for "Ant-Man" and "Dr. Strange" and your predictions are right in that ballpark. So I probably overstated it. I don't think the returns can go all that much softer.

[megladon8]

American audiences will probably be like “oh that guy!” when they see Leung, but yeah he’s not going to be selling tickets here.

That being said, Irish is also right that he is Cruise/Pitt level famous in Asia, and will most assuredly make them bank there.

[Dukefrukem]

Yeh, America will have the same reaction to Tony Leung as they did to Donnie Yen.

[Ivan Drago]

And now they're unleashing their bot army to demonize Sony. I think they want to kill Sony film division, that might've been what this is all about.

Welp. Movies were fun while they lasted.

[Dukefrukem]

Welp. Movies were fun while they lasted.

This isn't the apocalypse... though I realize that some of you wish it was.

[Ivan Drago]

This isn't the apocalypse... though I realize that some of you wish it was.

It's apocalyptic for the film industry if Disney ends up buying Sony.

I'm sorry to keep being a downer about this stuff. Watching everything you love disintegrate before your eyes gets tougher and tougher every day. In the discourse about it, I'm admittedly looking for some kind of hope or silver lining but haven't found it yet.

[Dukefrukem]

It's apocalyptic for the film industry if Disney ends up buying Sony.

I'm sorry to keep being a downer about this stuff. Watching everything you love disintegrate before your eyes gets tougher and tougher every day. In the discourse about it, I'm admittedly looking for some kind of hope or silver lining but haven't found it yet.

Why so we can look forward to 7 more Resident Evil movies?

[transmogrifier]

This isn't the apocalypse... though I realize that some of you wish it was.

On the flip side, you seem to be happy with the idea of Disney having a basic monopoly on mainstream film. I have no idea why.

[Dukefrukem]

On the flip side, you seem to be happy with the idea of Disney having a basic monopoly on mainstream film. I have no idea why.

No idea eh? (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/mcu-movies-ranked/detail/) - and hey, there's always WB.

[transmogrifier]

No idea eh? (https://letterboxd.com/dukefrukem/list/mcu-movies-ranked/detail/) - and hey, there's always WB.

Glad you're happy eating McDonald's every day. Some of us prefer more variety.

[Dukefrukem]

Glad you're happy eating McDonald's every day. Some of us prefer more variety.

In terms of superheros, the MCU is a big fat steak slathered in bourbon peppercorn source, Fox is a dinner at applebees and Sony is the McDonalds.

[transmogrifier]

In terms of superheros, the MCU is a big fat steak slathered in bourbon peppercorn source, Fox is a dinner at applebees and Sony is the McDonalds.

Nah, all of that is just McDonalds.

[Dukefrukem]

After reading this, I bet they return to the table. Too much at stake.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/spider-man-standoff-why-sony-thinks-it-doesnt-need-kevins-playbook-anymore-1233644

[Skitch]

They could also go play in their own world with the character for a bit and if it doesn't work out, lend him back.

I understand fans don't like it. But I do not understand anyone saying Sony should give the rights back to Marvel, or fans being mad at Sony. Thats just nuts. If you're going to be mad, be mad at Marvel for letting the rights go at all. The only thing any of these studios care about is money.

[Dukefrukem]

I mean.. it's hard to be mad at Marvel for trying to not be bankrupt....

[Scar]

In terms of superheros, the MCU is a big fat steak slathered in bourbon peppercorn source, Fox is a dinner at applebees and Sony is the McDonalds.

*looks up bourbon peppercorn sauce recipes*