Aronofsky's Black Swan (2010)

[Mara]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/19734.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/_1279813403.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/maragirl/_1279813370.jpg

[MacGuffin]

It stars Natalie Portman, so I have no reason to see it.

[Ezee E]

It stars Natalie Portman, so I have every reason to see it.

[Wryan]

What the fuck is this about?

[baby doll]

It stars Natalie Portman, so I have no reason to see it.I liked her in My Blueberry Nights.

[MacGuffin]

I liked her in My Blueberry Nights.

I haven't seen it, but it's rare to find recognized actresses as obnoxious as her.

[baby doll]

I haven't seen it, but it's rare to find recognized actresses as obnoxious as her.When you say obnoxious, are you talking about her acting or her personality?

[MacGuffin]

When you say obnoxious, are you talking about her acting or her personality?

You can look at her performance in Garden State and know all you need to about her talent as an actor. Seriously, that thing transcends Razzies material. She's obnoxious as an actor. She's obnoxious because she has the presence of a donkey.

[baby doll]

You can look at her performance in Garden State and know all you need to about her talent as an actor. Seriously, that thing transcends Razzies material. She's obnoxious as an actor. She's obnoxious because she has the presence of a donkey.Ouch. (For the record, I kinda liked Garden State.)

[Winston*]

She's obnoxious because she has the presence of a donkey.

A really hot donkey!!!! Am I right, Clipper Ship?!!!!

[MacGuffin]

A really hot donkey!!!! Am I right, Clipper Ship?!!!!

I was speaking more on a level of stage presence, but no, you're not right.

[Sven]

I liked her a lot in V for Vendetta. Of all the films I've seen her in, that's the one that convinced me to take her seriously the most.

[megladon8]

I like Natalie Portman well enough.

It being directed by Darren Aronofsky = my ass in the seat.

[Qrazy]

I liked her a lot in V for Vendetta. Of all the films I've seen her in, that's the one that convinced me to take her seriously the most.

Cold Mountain for me. A bit melodramatic there maybe, but she sold it.

[Ezee E]

I like Natalie Portman well enough.

It being directed by Darren Aronofsky = my ass in the seat.
The last statement is the main reason I'm excited for this.

[Grouchy]

I agree with Clipper, it's a shame about Natalie Portman. I've hated her in every movie she's in, with the possible exception of My Blueberry Nights.

But, it's Aranofsky and it already looks good.

[B-side]

Aronofsky = me interested

Lesbian ballet dancers = me erect

[Mara]

I'm kind of interested that Mila Kunis is in this. I think she's a strikingly beautiful girl, but has always been in pretty crap projects. I'm curious to see if she has real talent.

[[ETM]]

I liked her work on Forgetting Sarah Marshall.

[Ezee E]

I'm kind of interested that Mila Kunis is in this. I think she's a strikingly beautiful girl, but has always been in pretty crap projects. I'm curious to see if she has real talent.

She hurt Book of Eli.

[[ETM]]

She hurt Book of Eli.

I don't think she was given anything to work with there. It's a role that could have been played by anyone, and it has nothing to do with her skill (or lack thereof) how it turned out.

[Spinal]

Portman's great! I feel like we've been through this before. Love the photos.

[DavidSeven]

The Wrestler was pretty whatever. The Fountain was atrocious. Portman is the part to be excited about at this point.

[megladon8]

The Wrestler was pretty whatever. The Fountain was atrocious. Portman is the part to be excited about at this point.


I'm not sure I can like you very much anymore.

[Grouchy]

The Wrestler was pretty whatever. The Fountain was atrocious. Portman is the part to be excited about at this point.
No, they're both great movies (well, Fountain is great and Wrestler is good) and Portman is a shit actress.

[[ETM]]

I'm not sure I can like you very much anymore.


No, they're both great movies (well, Fountain is great and Wrestler is good)

I'm in agreement with these statements.

[DavidSeven]

The overwhelming support that ridiculous piece of sci-fi gets on this forum, and nowhere else, is one of those things that will always baffle me.

[transmogrifier]

The overwhelming support that ridiculous piece of sci-fi gets on this forum, and nowhere else, is one of those things that will always baffle me.

It's so earnest and heartfelt, you can't help but feel a little bad that it is has no tangible emotion, nor an interesting plot.

Aronofsky is one of those directors I just don't get. His movies are interesting in theory, but I don't think he's a very good craftsman and his sense of rhythm is almost non-existence. His films are like a bunch of scenes spliced together, rather than an organic whole.

[megladon8]

The overwhelming support that ridiculous piece of sci-fi gets on this forum, and nowhere else, is one of those things that will always baffle me.


This I find weird, because I didn't think The Fountain had much of a following on this forum. I know it has its handful of rabid fans, but it's not like I would describe this forum as "a place to go to discuss The Fountain".

I actually know more people IRL who love it than I do here. Particularly a friend of mine who's now an animator for Disney. It's one of his favorites.

[Boner M]

his sense of rhythm is almost non-existence. His films are like a bunch of scenes spliced together, rather than an organic whole.
Even Requiem For a Dream?

[transmogrifier]

Even Requiem For a Dream?

Especially that. One of the more overrated films of the 00s.

[Spinal]

This I find weird, because I didn't think The Fountain had much of a following on this forum. I know it has its handful of rabid fans, but it's not like I would describe this forum as "a place to go to discuss The Fountain".


The Match-Cut Awards from that year would seem to indicate differently.

[Boner M]

Especially that. One of the more overrated films of the 00s.
I'm not a fan, but rhythm is not something it especially lacks. (even if it is of a very obvious kind)

[megladon8]

The Match-Cut Awards from that year would seem to indicate differently.


Hmm...I'd forgotten about the results.

I really didn't think the film had that many fans here. Like I said, I thought it was a small handful of people who rabidly loved it (myself included) amidst a crowd of people who were either indifferent, or thought it was laughably bad.

[baby doll]

For the record, I still like Pi the best of all Aronofsky's film, largely because it has the most interesting subject. Stylistically, Requiem for a Dream takes the same ideas about montage and pushes them even further, but the story is less interesting to me. The Fountain is a bit of a step down from those two films, actually a huge step down, but I still sort of like it as this structurally ambitious SF movie--kind of how I feel about Inception. And The Wrestler has some good things in it, but damn, the chick characters are such clichés.

[Qrazy]

The overwhelming support that ridiculous piece of sci-fi gets on this forum, and nowhere else, is one of those things that will always baffle me.

I know lots of people who loved it in real life. I only liked it myself but yeah.

[[ETM]]

The overwhelming support that ridiculous piece of sci-fi gets on this forum, and nowhere else, is one of those things that will always baffle me.

I actually don't know anyone who didn't like it. Sure, you can insult my friends all you like, but it's more likely you've been a bit sheltered when it comes to this.


It's so earnest and heartfelt, you can't help but feel a little bad that it is has no tangible emotion, nor an interesting plot.

That's difficult to respond to with anything but a... no? And...


his sense of rhythm is almost non-existence. His films are like a bunch of scenes spliced together, rather than an organic whole.

...this as well.

[DavidSeven]

;275466']I actually don't know anyone who didn't like it. Sure, you can insult my friends all you like, but it's more likely you've been a bit sheltered when it comes to this

I was referencing critics' circles who gave this mediocre-at-best reviews and the award circuits that completely shut this film out in 2006. I wouldn't even know how to survey the general "real world" perception of this film in the U.S., much less Canada or Europe. Well, except for the fact that it bombed everywhere, but there are usually more factors at play there.

[[ETM]]

the award circuits that completely shut this film out in 2006.

It deserved a Oscar nomination at least for the score. It did win the Chicago Film Critics Circle and the Online Film Critics awards for it, though. It's one of the rare scores that I can put on and listen to all the way through.

But damn, $15 million worldwide?

[DavidSeven]

;275499']It deserved a Oscar nomination at least for the score. It did win the Chicago Film Critics Circle and the Online Film Critics awards for it, though. It's one of the rare scores that I can put on and listen to all the way through.

But damn, $15 million worldwide?

Agree about the Mansell score. Been on my iPod for ages.

[megladon8]

Many movies make me teary.

The Fountain made me bawl.

[B-side]

I'm tempted to agree with baby doll than Pi is his best work, but I've liked all of his films. The Wrestler is his worst.

[Lucky]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Portman in Closer. That's her best performance. Her gambler in My Blueberry Nights was very good as well.

I guess I like Portman best when she sparks with wit. She can pull off cheeky better than most.

[amberlita]

Many movies make me teary.

The Fountain made me bawl.

Same here. I attribute it to Jackman's performance, which was really quite remarkable, as well as the magnificent score. Other than that, I'll admit there isn't anything too special about the movie.

[megladon8]

Same here. I attribute it to Jackman's performance, which was really quite remarkable, as well as the magnificent score. Other than that, I'll admit there isn't anything too special about the movie.


Agree with the bolded.

Between that and The Prestige (both '06 films) it pains me that Jackman is not getting (or maybe just uninterested in) more dramatic roles.

He's a great actor.

[Grouchy]

1. The Fountain
2. Pi
3. Requiem for a Dream
4. The Wrestler

All very much worth watching.

[right_for_the_moment]

trailer (http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/blackswan/)

[Watashi]

trailer (http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/blackswan/)
So wait... so she actually turns into a swan?

What the fuck did I just watch?

[Henry Gale]

I couldn't be more excited after that trailer. Wasn't expecting that at all.

Hopefully I get a chance to see it at TIFF.

[Stay Puft]

Well, the dude certainly does like Perfect Blue.

[Boner M]

This looks awesome.

[MacGuffin]

This looks awesome.

It doesn't look as bad as I thought it would.

[Ezee E]

Can't wait!

[megladon8]

Looks great.

Luckily my love of Aronofsky and Clint Mansell scores outweighs my incredible dislike of Vincent Cassel.

Looks very eerie and cool. Looking forward to it.

[MacGuffin]

my incredible dislike of Vincent Cassel.

:crazy:

[megladon8]

:crazy:


Your posts in the Sam Raimi thread - :crazy:

[MacGuffin]

Your posts in the Sam Raimi thread - :crazy:

Touché. :)

[Dead & Messed Up]

trailer (http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/fox_searchlight/blackswan/)

Fubwha?

[Bosco B Thug]

Yeah, this has all the ingredients of a movie pandering to me. Ooh, except Aronofsky making it.

JK. Just don't care for his oversized visual epics, and this doesn't look like one of them (still need to see The Wrestler). My expectations are up.

[Ezee E]

From what it looks like, they casted Kunis perfectly. Use her for her looks, and not let her talk.

[chrisnu]

Well, that guarantees my attendance on opening night.

[Boner M]

I share meg's dislike for Vincent Cassel and his manic smugness.

[Dukefrukem]

great trailer

[Sxottlan]

Huh. I only ever heard Aronofsky's doing a ballet film. Didn't think it'd be anything like this.

Long live the new downy flesh apparently. At first I thought she was in to self-flagellation. Could still be I suppose, just all in her head?


Well, the dude certainly does like Perfect Blue.

I like that he likes that.

[Kurosawa Fan]

That looks amazing.

[Pop Trash]

Huh...looks like The Red Shoes + Showgirls + The Fly

[Boner M]

Aronofsky's shaping up to have a really interesting career. I hope this will be the first film of his that totally works for me.

[Pop Trash]

Aronofsky's shaping up to have a really interesting career. I hope this will be the first film of his that totally works for me.

Yeah, I like all four of his movies a lot. But they are all kind of different from each other. I'm not sure if he has any kind of thematic throughline in his films like say Nolan. Other than perhaps tragic endings.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, I like all four of his movies a lot. But they are all kind of different from each other. I'm not sure if he has any kind of thematic throughline in his films like say Nolan. Other than perhaps tragic endings.
Ambitious dreams that are unachievable due to one's own addictions/problems?

[B-side]

I can dig it.

[Watashi]

Yeah, this has all the ingredients of a movie pandering to me. Ooh, except Aronofsky making it.

JK. Just don't care for his oversized visual epics, and this doesn't look like one of them (still need to see The Wrestler). My expectations are up.

Epics? What other "visual epics" did he do besides The Fountain?

[Bosco B Thug]

Epics? What other "visual epics" did he do besides The Fountain? I meant it loosely... The only other "epic" I meant to suggest (the only other Aronofsky I've seen) was Requiem for a Dream, which just also trades heavily in big visual conceptualization and set-pieces.

[Sven]

Was expecting to be on board for this one. Thought the trailer looked way stupid. Will wait for the predictably positive reviews.

[Boner M]

Was expecting to be on board for this one.
No ya weren't.

[Ezee E]

Was expecting to be on board for this one. Thought the trailer looked way stupid. Will wait for the predictably positive reviews.
Debbie downer.

[number8]

I guess I can finally say this now that they included the shot in the trailer. They filmed Portman's character's house only a few blocks away from my apartment in Brooklyn and I know someone who went on the set one day and the scene they were filming happened to be of Natalie Portman masturbating.

Lucky SOB.

Damn, I kept that to myself, didn't even tell anyone I know, for 8 months.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Was expecting to be on board for this one. Thought the trailer looked way stupid. Will wait for the predictably positive reviews.

You know I like and respect you, and I've been hesitant to ever apply the contrarian label when talking about you, but really, you're making it more and more difficult. As soon as I saw that trailer and saw that it was unanimous praise in this thread, I thought to myself, "Sure as hell, Sven is going to come in here and say the trailer is lame." It wasn't even a question in my mind. I knew that's how you would respond. When you're that predictable, it's quite possible that label fits, bud.

[Mara]

Okay, I just posted the original pictures because, hey, pretty pictures.

But that trailer is astonishing.

[Mara]

I try not to be all schizophrenic about body stuff, but I am one of those people who is excessively bothered by thoughts of my body falling apart or things under my skin. Like those crazy people who think red fibers are growing out of scabs and end up scratching themselves to death. I don't think that's happening to me ever, but the idea of it really bothers me and nags at me.

So, I'm going to be obsessing about feathers growing out of pimples for a few days now.

[Sven]

As soon as I saw that trailer and saw that it was unanimous praise in this thread, I thought to myself, "Sure as hell, Sven is going to come in here and say the trailer is lame." It wasn't even a question in my mind. I knew that's how you would respond. When you're that predictable, it's quite possible that label fits, bud.

Well, if it makes the playing field even, as soon as I expressed my opinion, I thought to myself "Sure as hell, people are going to, for some reason, give me a hard time about expressing my honest opinion." Because that's never a question in my mind around here. I've been hesitant to label many on this board as reactionaries and thought police, but when you're this predictable...

Last three movies: I hated The Last Airbender, I like Scott Pilgrim, I didn't hate Inception. If that makes me a contrarian, then I guess you're just kind of a jerk. I do appreciate your historic tendency to avoid applying that label to me, however.

[Sven]

No ya weren't.

Why would I lie?

[amberlita]

I don't think the trailer was lame, but it was certainly weird. I don't quite know what to think yet but I'm now more likely to go and see it as soon as possible rather than waiting. In that sense, successful preview.

They've done a magnificent job making Natalie Portman look about 10 years older than she really is.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, if it makes the playing field even, as soon as I expressed my opinion, I thought to myself "Sure as hell, people are going to, for some reason, give me a hard time about expressing my honest opinion." Because that's never a question in my mind around here. I've been hesitant to label many on this board as reactionaries and thought police, but when you're this predictable...

Last three movies: I hated The Last Airbender, I like Scott Pilgrim, I didn't hate Inception. If that makes me a contrarian, then I guess you're just kind of a jerk. I do appreciate your historic tendency to avoid applying that label to me, however.

Wow. You took that a little more personally than you should have.

[Sven]

Wow. You took that a little more personally than you should have.

How should I have taken such a personally-aimed comment?

[number8]

You're both It's Always Sunny fans. Can't you just... I dunno, open a bar together and make out or something?

[Kurosawa Fan]

How should I have taken such a personally-aimed comment?

As friendly chiding, which it was.

[Sven]

Y'know, eff it, KF. I know you weren't aiming to be nasty. I've known you for too long to let a few words of exasperation at my patterns of opinionation frustrate me. You've gotta see it from my point of view, though. How else am I supposed to take a "If the shoe fits..." kind of comment, if not personally?

[Mara]

You're both It's Always Sunny fans. Can't you just... I dunno, open a bar together and make out or something?

Does anyone else feel like they're kind of reenacting the trailer?

[number8]

Does anyone else feel like they're kind of reenacting the trailer?

KF always did strike me as a ballerina.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Y'know, eff it, KF. I know you weren't aiming to be nasty. I've known you for too long to let a few words of exasperation at my patterns of opinionation frustrate me. You've gotta see it from my point of view, though. How else am I supposed to take a "If the shoe fits..." kind of comment, if not personally?

Look, perhaps it's because the board has grown a bit since we first started and more people who you're unfamiliar with are branding you with that label, but I expected you to take my comment the same way you've always taken it since I've known you, by laughing about it and pointing out reasons why it's not true, not name-calling and acting like a pissy child.

I guess next time I'll include a fucking wink so you don't get confused.

[Sven]

I loathe, DETEST, the idea that I have to remain silent when speaking of something I don't like amidst a tide of approving voices if I want to avoid looking like a) a contrarian or b) a liar. If this tendency to being abrasive toward the dissenting voices is not dangerously close to Opinion Eugenics, then it's just incredibly annoying and very, very tired and I kind of wish that we were at the point where opinions could freely flow. If only because I've been dealing with this ribbing for years... I'm a bruised man, man. I can only imagine how baby doll feels. I admire his resilience.

[Sven]

I'm sorry I have turned the mirth into something so cumbersome. I am sorry.

[Watashi]

We don't think you're a contrarian or a liar, Sven.

We just think you have bad tastes. :)

[Dead & Messed Up]

I like having Sven here. His differences of opinion (usually well-explained) often force me to take a closer look at my own. 'sides, saying a trailer "looks awesome" or "looks stupid" is pretty silly anyway.

[Qrazy]

I like having Sven here. His differences of opinion (usually well-explained) often force me to take a closer look at my own. 'sides, saying a trailer "looks awesome" or "looks stupid" is pretty silly anyway.

True, it looks like a series of objects moving in relation to one another with varying combinations of photons interacting with said objects.

[Mara]

True, it looks like a series of objects moving in relation to one another with varying combinations of photons interacting with said objects.

I think it's just a bunch of ones and zeros.

[Qrazy]

I think it's just a bunch of ones and zeros.

Also a fair assessment.

[Dead & Messed Up]

How can we trust trailers at all, since we can only perceive them through the prism of our own minds? It's entirely possible that there's no trailer at all.

[Qrazy]

How can we trust trailers at all, since we can only perceive them through the prism of our own minds? It's entirely possible that there's no trailer at all.

Let's make a movie.

On the Trail of the Trailerless Trailer.

[DavidSeven]

So, I guess he's sticking with the dirty handheld he used in The Wrestler. Hopefully, it has more of a point this time. It looks infinitely more visually interesting, at the very least. Nothing to suggest that it won't be terrible, but it has potential. Cassel is looking pretty one-dimensional there. Kunis, however, is surprisingly holding her own with Portman, in terms of presence on the screen. Their dynamic seems like the most interesting thing about the flick, thus far.

[Watashi]

Their hot make out session seems like the most interesting thing about the flick, thus far.

Fixed.

[eternity]

I'm the one who isn't getting it, even as a lover of all things Aronofsky. Natalie Portman's character is either being a whiny hyperbolic crazy person or this is a one-note body horror film.

[Bosco B Thug]

I mean, it very well could be not that great. If I wanted to be a negative nelly, I'd say it looked like a degenerated version of Showgirls and Altman's The Company.

But I didn't, because it's got sapphism and crazy bird creatures.

[Raiders]

Yeah, didn't look too good to me either, but I'll still see it for sure. I mean, so what, she's actually becoming a swan? Eh.

[Sven]

You guys are contrarians.

[baby doll]

I hate trailers. The only thing they're good for is pulling screen caps for my blog.

[Grouchy]

That certainly looks awesome.

[Ezee E]

Something else all Aronofsky movies have is harming the body for what a person believes is actually for good... Looks like that continues on here possibly.

[number8]

Something else all Aronofsky movies have is harming the body for what a person believes is actually for good... Looks like that continues on here possibly.

Yes, he got that from Shinya Tsukamoto, who he claims to be a huge influence on him.

[DavidSeven]

Deadline.com essentially pegs Portman as the Oscar frontrunner after the film opened Venice. (http://www.deadline.com/2010/09/critics-predict-natalie-portman-will-win-oscar-for-venice-opener-black-swan/#more-64548)

[MacGuffin]

Wouldn't it be neat if Aronofsky not only turned her into a swan, but a worthwhile actress as well?

[Ivan Drago]

I loathe, DETEST, the idea that I have to remain silent when speaking of something I don't like amidst a tide of approving voices if I want to avoid looking like a) a contrarian or b) a liar.

And some people wonder why I don't post much in the FDT or GD...

[Ezee E]

Wouldn't it be neat if Aronofsky not only turned her into a swan, but a worthwhile actress as well?

:crazy:

[baby doll]

Wouldn't it be neat if Aronofsky not only turned her into a swan, but a worthwhile actress as well?Wong Kar-wai already got there.

[Boner M]

I don't mind Portman sometimes, but she was horrid in My Blueberry Nights. Really started seeing what some people hate about her there.

On the other hand, I thought she was pretty good in Brothers despite the film being balls.

[Duncan]

NYTimes kind of panned this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/03/arts/03iht-CONWAY3.html?ref=global-home

Edit: Actually, now that I reread the article, no, they didn't. But it's not favourable, either.

[Bosco B Thug]

I don't really remember her performance anymore, but for some reason I singled Portman out in my 'Blueberry Nights' blurb:


I liked it well enough, and Natalie Portman is very good playing against type.

I'm not the most discerning judge of acting, though... I may very well be the opposite. So whoever's opinion I'm validating, you are very welcome.

[DavidSeven]

Wong Kar-wai already got there.

Luc Besson already got there.

[Watashi]

I don't think I've disliked a Portman performance yet.

I think her best work was in V for Vendetta.

[Bosco B Thug]

I don't think I've disliked a Portman performance yet.

I think her best work was in V for Vendetta.
Hmm, V for Vendetta had little to no lasting impact on me, but yeah, I remember thinking she was quite good in that, too. She cried a lot, I remember.

But to go on a tangent, I really don't think I would ever want to sit through Garden State again, and I didn't even despise it when I saw it in theaters. I think of that movie when CSC rags on her.

[Rowland]

I recall finding her performance in Cold Mountain quite strong, but that may have just been because that was one of the only good scenes in the movie.

[MacGuffin]

I recall finding her performance in Cold Mountain quite strong, but that may have just been because that was one of the only good scenes in the movie.

I don't remember her performance, but I do recall really enjoying Cold Mountain.

[Watashi]

Hmm, V for Vendetta had little to no lasting impact on me, but yeah, I remember thinking she was quite good in that, too. She cried a lot, I remember.

But to go on a tangent, I really don't think I would ever want to sit through Garden State again, and I didn't even despise it when I saw it in theaters. I think of that movie when CSC rags on her.
Garden State is one of those movies I liked a lot on my first viewings, and upon rewatches, I expect to totally hate it, but I find it's still strong.

I think the film and Portman are both fine.

[MacGuffin]

I think the film and Portman are both fine.

Her "performance" in Garden State is Razzie-worthy.

[Bosco B Thug]

Garden State is one of those movies I liked a lot on my first viewings, and upon rewatches, I expect to totally hate it, but I find it's still strong.

I think the film and Portman are both fine. Yeah, all recollections of my viewing experience point to my finding it "fine" as well. I bet a lot of people experience this "mind-souring" with this movie. (Eh, it probably deserves it.)

[MacGuffin]

Yeah, all recollections of my viewing experience point to my finding it "fine" as well. I bet a lot of people experience this "mind-souring" with this movie. (Eh, it probably deserves it.)

For me, the movie exists as little more than a means for Zach Braff to bitch and moan and show everyone how quirky he is and how totally indie his iPod is. Natalie Portman gives a performance worthy of a clown; she overacts her way through the whole thing, awkwardly slogging about with half-assed attempts at awakening a poorly-written awkward character. But that's just how I feel about the movie.

[baby doll]

Garden State was kind of a cute movie. If you go in with modest expectations, it's an enjoyable enough piece of fluff.

[Sven]

I think MacGuffin and baby doll have too similar avatars.

[Sven]

Haha. Looking at mine next to theirs, I guess mine isn't all that different either.

[megladon8]

Yours has a certain Sven-illity, though.

[MacGuffin]

Garden State was kind of a cute movie. If you go in with modest expectations, it's an enjoyable enough piece of fluff.

But as you would say about a film you don't like, why settle?

[megladon8]

But as you would say with a film you don't like, why settle?


You liked Cold Mountain.

Therefore, shut your dirty whore mouth about Garden State. (Which I don't even like).

I was totally joking about the "dirty whore mouth" part, I hope you know.Everyone knows your whore mouth is kept wonderfully clean with regular brushing;)

[MacGuffin]

Hah, well it's been years since I've seen Cold Mountain. My tastes have changed a lot in a couple years so I could very well see it differently a second time through.

[Watashi]

I know plenty of girls who act like Portman's character from Garden State. She captured that spazzy spunky silly role pretty good.

[DavidSeven]

The performance suited the character. If you found her grating then you probably would have found her character just as grating conceptually or on paper. It's clear, however, that she hit the note that Braff wanted.

[MacGuffin]

The performance suited the character. If you found her grating then you probably would have found her character just as grating conceptually or on paper. It's clear, however, that she hit the note that Braff wanted.

Sure, it's obvious that the character was poorly written in the first place (her character is consistently superficial, settling on formulaic quirkiness and is the opposite of multi-layered), but I still feel she does a god-awful job attempting to salvage what little was there. Throughout the entire film, each idiosyncrasy or "quirk" is imparted with little differentiation or distinction. Her passion feels overwhelmingly artificial and stale. Again, Zach Braff is a terrible writer and even worse director, but it's also Natalie Portman's fault that her performance is easily summed up just by looking at this popular production still for the film:

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5949/natalieportmanheadphone.jpg

[Watashi]

You really don't know many females (non-high school females) do you?

[MacGuffin]

You really don't know many females (non-high school females) do you?

No, not really.

[MacGuffin]

That said, if she's a superficial character, she's a superficial character. If she's a superficial person (and I'm speaking now from my own experience), she's a superficial person. I'm not one to judge people, but if you have to get personal, then this is truth. I found Natalie Portman's character exuberantly superficial and as Rosenbaum would say, without "redeeming facet".

For the record, yes, I am in college right now; I'm probably younger than most of you, but I'm just as passionate about movies. I agree with Armond White that more life experience generally = more interesting criticisms, but I hope you guys don't mind having me around. Please don't all y'alls go pulling a Pop Trash on me.

[Ezee E]

Closer is my favorite role of hers. Some great stuff there.

[megladon8]

Closer is my favorite role of hers. Some great stuff there.


Agreed. Great movie all around.

[Qrazy]

I found Portman's character and performance in Garden State perfectly believable. I've met many girls like that. That being said the film as a whole does feel kind of slight, but I don't hold that against Portman.

[Boner M]

I guess I'll bring some much needed sanity to this page and say that Garden State is abysmal and as much a relic of the 00's as Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo is of the 80's.

[DavidSeven]

I guess I'll bring some much needed sanity to this page and say that Garden State is abysmal and as much a relic of the 00's as Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo is of the 80's.

Don't quite think it's abysmal (slight, for sure), but it's definitely getting dated. It's kind of amusing to see that common prospective criticism become a reality so quickly.

[transmogrifier]

I guess I'll bring some much needed sanity to this page and say that Garden State is abysmal and as much a relic of the 00's as Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo is of the 80's.

Garden State was all that was wrong about "indie" filmmaking in the 00s. Just thinking about that movie gives me a headache. Or maybe its cos I'm kinda thinking about The Shins too, who were all that was wrong about "indie" music in the 00s. Or maybe I've just had too much to drink.

[baby doll]

But as you would say about a film you don't like, why settle?It is what it is: a perfectly adequate romantic comedy. I'm not sure how that's "settling"; that's just what the film is. If you want something different, watch something else.

[Irish]

Saw a trailer for this and was intrigued. But Portman is terrible and her career will last only as long as her looks.

Seriously, she's up there with Johannsson in hitting all the wrong notes, and trumping scenes with artificiality and false emotion.

The only way I can explain either of their careers is that they've got to be giving really good head to all the right people.

[MacGuffin]

Great post, Irish. Welcome to the boards.

[Irish]

Great post, Irish. Welcome to the boards.

Thanks, Mac. :)

[MacGuffin]

I should note that I don't mind Johannsson, but can certainly understand the hate.

[Irish]

I should note that I don't mind Johannsson, but can certainly understand the hate.
I didn't mind her either until she showed up in a couple of Woody Allen movies.

What was that one set in England? Match Point? Probably the best movie Allen has done for *years* and she almost derailed the damn thing herself.

Now I'm hoping that she quietly disappears from the scene, or just gets knocked up and retires to wherever-the-hell to care for the kids.

[Ezee E]

Good Lord, I can't wait to see this again. And it's not because of the Kunis/Portman sex scene.

[Sxottlan]

Good Lord, I can't wait to see this again.

Cool.

[megladon8]

Good Lord, I can't wait to see this again. And it's not because of the Kunis/Portman sex scene.


Boobies?

[Ezee E]

Boobies?
And this will be what gets people to see the movie...

[Henry Gale]

And this will be what gets people to see the movie...

As in it has them, or that the mystery around it will be what causes people to seek it out? I feel like I already know too much about it (even reading an early version of the script), but actual nudity isn't something any reviews have clarified.

I really hope to see this in the next couple of weeks by squeezing into one of the TIFF screenings. Still my most anticipated of the year, and reactions such as yours have only made the waiting worse.

[Ezee E]

As in it has them, or that the mystery around it will be what causes people to seek it out? I feel like I already know too much about it (even reading an early version of the script), but actual nudity isn't something any reviews have clarified.

I really hope to see this in the next couple of weeks by squeezing into one of the TIFF screenings. Still my most anticipated of the year, and reactions such as yours have only made the waiting worse.
Kunis/Portman > Watts/Harring

[Henry Gale]

Kunis/Portman > Watts/Harring

Well then... this scene may just end up as:

Reality > Initial expectations

[Kurosawa Fan]

Kunis/Portman > Watts/Harring

Those two? I won't believe it until I see it.

[Ezee E]

Those two? I won't believe it until I see it.
Believe it buddy.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Believe it buddy.

They'll probably cut it up for the wide release. Just because.

[number8]

They'll probably cut it up for the wide release. Just because.

Only if it is a wide release. Aranofsky's films so far have always been platform/limited, and Requiem for a Dream was released in theaters unrated because Aranofsky refused to cut the sex down to get an R.

[Kurosawa Fan]

Well, according to another person I know who was attending Telluride and saw this film, there's no nudity in the sex scene. E, you have some 'splainin to do.

[Ezee E]

Well, according to another person I know who was attending Telluride and saw this film, there's no nudity in the sex scene. E, you have some 'splainin to do.
Its quickly edited together for when you do see the boobs. But the scene is good enough.

[Raiders]

I respect and thank you E for giving us the relevant details.

[Mara]

I respect and thank you E for giving us the relevant details.

...I'm the only one less interested in boobies and more interested in whether or not she turns into a freaking swan???

[Henry Gale]

...and more interested in whether or not she turns into a freaking swan???

You ask as if the film will be straightforward enough to know for sure either way. The story is very much set in Nina's fractured mind, so even if she sees herself as literally turning into the black swan, that may not be what the people around her necessarily see.
Now that isn't really a spoiler because I haven't actually seen the final film, it's not even a "yes" or "no" either way. It's just that the sort of angle the story took in the original script makes a question like that hard to answer.

[number8]

Will there be swan boobies?

[Ezee E]

...I'm the only one less interested in boobies and more interested in whether or not she turns into a freaking swan???
WIll you even see the movie after I tell you that there's some terrifying nail cutting scenes in this?

[Henry Gale]

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/45351.jpg

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/45352.jpg

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/45353.jpg

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/45354.jpg

:eek:

[Ezee E]

That third one is amazing.

[Pop Trash]

Woah, any of those would be Criterion worthy.

Speaking of which, when is there going to be a Criterion edition of The Fountain?

[number8]

So gorgeous.

[Mara]

Wow. Those are stunning.


WIll you even see the movie after I tell you that there's some terrifying nail cutting scenes in this?

Yikes. I'm fascinated and repulsed.

[B-side]

Love those posters. The 4th one is pure classic Soviet cinema.

[Stay Puft]

Its quickly edited together for when you do see the boobs. But the scene is good enough.

Either your memory is playing tricks on you, or you're playing tricks on Match Cut.

There's no nudity. There isn't even any removal of clothing.

[Stay Puft]

But, yes, the nail cutting scene was awesome.

[Henry Gale]

Stunningly good.

More terrifying than any straight-forward horror and more of an emotional punch in the gut than anything I can compare it to in any genre from this year. It's just such a purely atmospheric and effective piece of work, and surprisingly not overcomplicated in its more mindbending layers. The film is haunting, tactfully and unapologetically sexual, and honestly unnerving when it wants to be. The whole final act I found myself just (more or less joyfully) rattled and so completely into it, that a constant wave of chills just went through me until the end.

Easily one of the best of the year. Aronofsky is starting to make being incredible seem too effortless.

[Fezzik]

You know what would be amazing?

If this film and 127 hours would open ANYWHERE NEAR Tallahassee, Florida.

Ths is ridiculous. We're a state capitol. We've got a college. And yet, not a single screen for either film, and in looking at future weeks, it appears to remain that way until at least the new year.

Screw you, Tallahassee. Seriously.

[Ezee E]

You know what would be amazing?

If this film and 127 hours would open ANYWHERE NEAR Tallahassee, Florida.

Ths is ridiculous. We're a state capitol. We've got a college. And yet, not a single screen for either film, and in looking at future weeks, it appears to remain that way until at least the new year.

Screw you, Tallahassee. Seriously.
Black Swan is opening to 900 theaters this week, and more next week. You should get it I imagine.

[Fezzik]

Black Swan is opening to 900 theaters this week, and more next week. You should get it I imagine.

I really hope so. It isn't in our theaters' listing of 'coming soon' features yet. Hope that changes.

[Henry Gale]

The movie's really been in my head since I've seen it. I guess that's a high compliment I could give anything, but it's just with how condensed and initially overwhelming it was, I'm just starting to realize how many thematic ideas I wasn't really putting together with it until now, all of which keep it exciting to think about. It's just just being able to wrap my head it after the initial rush of watching it, and I still think I may need another viewing before I start saying anything confidently, but there's really is a lot of great stuff going on in it.

Also, listening to the writers on Jeff Goldsmith's podcast and seeing some of the stuff again in this (http://incontention.com/2010/12/14/on-the-sound-of-black-swan/) featurette on the sound design helped to have a lot of that theorizing and deeper readings start up again. Both are pretty spoiler-y, but I'd definitely say they're worth checking out if you've seen it. The podcast (here (http://creativescreenwritingmagazine. blogspot.com/2010/12/black-swan-q.html)) is basically Mark Heyman and Andres Heinz going for about 75 minutes through their detailed history with the script, and what the eventual process was of writing the script with Aronofsky. Some really interesting stuff, one of the things being how it didn't even start out as a ballet story.

[MadMan]

The trailers have peaked my interest in this movie, along with the cast and the director. Anyways its already receiving awards buzz so there's an added need to see it, even though it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't come to any of my local theaters.

PS: Well I'll be damned, my former place of employment has it, although I wonder for how long. After seeing Tron this weekend (if the weather permits) I think I'll check it out.

[jamaul]

Screw formalities and proper insights: I love the fucking hell out of this movie. I simply feel sorry for anyone who didn't catch that underneath the film's hysteria, melodrama, horror, anxiety, humor and surrealism is a special brand of awesomeness we rarely get in the movies. Everything I love about Polanski, Hitchcock, De Palma, Cronenberg and Showgirls can be found in this crazy-freakout hybrid of a nutso movie. As I felt with Inglourious Bastards, Inland Empire, I'm Not There, Femme Fatale and There Will Be Blood, it isn't often I find myself so enraptured by the level of exuberant invention on display.

Strong contender for film of the year.

[Ezee E]

Screw formalities and proper insights: I love the fucking hell out of this movie. I simply feel sorry for anyone who didn't catch that underneath the film's hysteria, melodrama, horror, anxiety, humor and surrealism is a special brand of awesomeness we rarely get in the movies. Everything I love about Polanski, Hitchcock, De Palma, Cronenberg and Showgirls can be found in this crazy-freakout hybrid of a nutso movie. As I felt with Inglourious Bastards, Inland Empire, I'm Not There, Femme Fatale and There Will Be Blood, it isn't often I find myself so enraptured by the level of exuberant invention on display.

Strong contender for film of the year.

Same feeling from me when I saw it in September. Every frame I was pulled in. It's one of those times where you remember why you love movies so much.

[NickGlass]

It's totally campy, and quite messy. I really like it.

[origami_mustache]

It's shot and edited nicely and the surrealistic scenes are notable, but the acting is ridiculous and everything's really on-the-nose and waaay over the top. I feel like my rating is pretty generous.

[DavidSeven]

Holy shit. This movie kicked my fucking ass.

[DavidSeven]

Really. It's the most perfect allegory for the irrationality that leads us to pursue perfectionism, whether it be in art or work, ever put on celluloid. Everyone who has ever pushed themselves to their physical and emotional limit to get a taste, a glimpse of that pinnacle will recognize the essence of this film. I haven't read a word about this film, but that's what it meant to me. It's on the nose; it's melodramatic; it's everywhere tonally; it's unrestrained, and it's a better film for all of those reasons. Finally, an Aronofsky film that feels like a natural evolution of what he showed us with Requiem for a Dream -- uncompromising in the best sense of that word. I love it.

[B-side]

The trailers have peaked my interest in this movie

http://wesleying.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Grammar-Police.png

Had to quote you there. The term is "piqued." You're welcome.

*drives off into the sunset*

[Melville]

Had to quote you there. The term is "piqued." You're welcome.

*drives off into the sunset*
Maybe he meant the trailers brought his interest to a peak. You're off the case, McGonigle!

Anyway, DavidSeven's review has peaked my interest.

[Boner M]

My interest has been peaked as well, especially upon hearing about the appropriateness of the film's lack of subtitlety.

[B-side]

My interest has been peaked as well, especially upon hearing about the appropriateness of the film's lack of subtitlety.

:D

[Melville]

My interest has been peaked as well, especially upon hearing about the appropriateness of the film's lack of subtitlety.
:lol: I couldn't agree more.

[MadMan]

http://wesleying.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/Grammar-Police.png

Had to quote you there. The term is "piqued." You're welcome.

*drives off into the sunset*Reported.

[balmakboor]

This finally opens in my neck of the woods on Wednesday. Yay.

[Fezzik]

So this IS opening in Tallahassee tonight and I'm going to see it with TGM and a group of local friends.

Very excited.

[Derek]

My interest has been peaked as well, especially upon hearing about the appropriateness of the film's lack of subtitlety.

I can't help wondering if this film would be embarrassed by more critics if it were subtled, since many critics give films more credit when they have subtles.

As for David7, his response is pure hyperbola.

[NickGlass]

As for David7, his response is pure hyperbola.

So is the film. Pure hyperbola [sic].

[DavidSeven]

Yeah, my review was pure gush, but it's interesting that E, jamaul, and Henry Gale all had the same gut reaction to this. I'm not sure the film is for everyone, and I wouldn't be surprised if it split MC, but it has the power to be something absolutely special for some. E's assertion that this is one of those "oh yeah, that's why I love movies" movies is spot on. Getting to see this with the trailer for Tree of Life as an opening act was cinema lover nirvana.

And give me this beautiful mess over the rote, by-the-numbers melodrama of The Wrestler any day. Aronofsky was out of his element in The Fountain, too. Stuck in an aesthetic he neither had the budget nor the sensibility for. This is return to the fevered obsessiveness he conveyed so well in Pi and Requiem. No one has been less forgiving of his recent missteps than I, and I'm ready to call this a return to form and then some. It's the perfect capper to the films that put him on the map in the first place.

[Ezee E]

Yeah, my review was pure gush, but it's interesting that E, jamaul, and Henry Gale all had the same gut reaction to this. I'm not sure the film is for everyone, and I wouldn't be surprised if it split MC, but it has the power to be something absolutely special for some. E's assertion that this is one of those "oh yeah, that's why I love movies" movies is spot on. Getting to see this with the trailer for Tree of Life as an opening act was cinema lover nirvana.

And give me this beautiful mess over the rote, by-the-numbers melodrama of The Wrestler any day. Aronofsky was out of his element in The Fountain, too. Stuck in an aesthetic he neither had the budget nor the sensibility for. This is return to the fevered obsessiveness he conveyed so well in Pi and Requiem. No one has been less forgiving of his recent missteps than I, and I'm ready to call this a return to form and then some. It's the perfect capper to the films that put him on the map in the first place.
Yep. I think I said it back at Telluride that this movie was his return to his Requiem form, something that we've all been wanting, even if we've liked his other two movies.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So that's why you're giving it a B-?

[DavidSeven]

So that's why you're giving it a B-?

Embarrassingly, I don't if this is a joke or not. It's getting four stars.

[eternity]

Wide release apparently doesn't mean the greater Phoenix area. Hmph.

[Kurosawa Fan]

It's not playing near me either.

[DavidSeven]

That's a shame. This movie needs to be seen in the theater. I never say this about movies, ever. It's not even about the imagery (though that's superb); it's about the sound. The sound design is incredible. The way the imagery combines with the sound of this movie on a professional system... I don't know, it felt like I was watching art beyond the movies.

[Watashi]

It's playing near me, but if DavidSeven loved it.... I dunno.

[DavidSeven]

It's playing near me, but if DavidSeven loved it.... I dunno.

My tastes really aren't that esoteric. I just respond strongly to things I see. Both positively and negatively.

[Eleven]

Seeing this tonight with a friend I saw the Red Shoes restoration with earlier this year.

[Ezee E]

It's playing near me, but if DavidSeven loved it.... I dunno.
I can't really recall many movies that David7 raves about, and he's not one to really care about his "moviecred" so...

[Henry Gale]

For those who still don't have it playing near them, I'd say don't worry because I don't think today is the final, truly wide expansion for it is until the 22nd.

It's also really been surprising me how wide the range seems to be of people interested in it, if they're not already praising it. I mean this mostly from people I know personally, but the strangest and funniest example I've come across so far (media-wise) is how Regis seems to have hilariously found ways of mentioning it in his crazed opening banter any time I've seen his show in the last couple of weeks. The fact that he usually seems to have trouble understanding the simplest of movies makes it even more amusing to me. He went nuts when he thought Portman and the movie got snubbed in the Golden Globes, until Kelly politely explained he was reading the Musical/Comedy nominees.

[ciaoelor]

It's playing in 13 South Florida theaters. I'll see it Wednesday after work.

[Boner M]

I can't help wondering if this film would be embarrassed by more critics if it were subtled, since many critics give films more credit when they have subtles.
Even worse is when they use foreign tles instead of the film's English tle to make the film sound swankier. "El secreto de sus ojos wins the tle for most subtitle film of the year!" :frustrated:

[Bosco B Thug]

Looks like I'm one of the winners of the Black Swan sweepstakes. My local, modest-size city's AMC got it today.

[Fezzik]

So is the film. Pure hyperbola [sic].

I think its more of a parabola. Maybe an ellipse.

[Duncan]

Rave review.

[DavidSeven]

Rave review.

:pritch:

[Duncan]

:pritch:

Indeed. Really hope Portman takes a few awards home. Thought she was riveting the whole way through, but by the end I was astonished. Had no idea she had it in her. Same goes for Aronofsky (Pi - *1/2; RfaD - ***; The Fountain - *; The Wrestler - **).

[origami_mustache]

And give me this beautiful mess over the rote, by-the-numbers melodrama of The Wrestler any day. Aronofsky was out of his element in The Fountain, too.

The Fountain would have benefited from the originally planned budget, but it was still a step forward for Aronofsky in terms of managing a larger scale production and bringing his own graphic novel to the screen. Like in Black Swan the melodrama is a bit heavy, but I think it works better seeing as it's based more in a realm of fantasy. The Wrestler went in a different direction and was stripped of all the gloss of his other films, and although melodramatic narratively, I think the execution was a great balance of subtlety and a much more realistic portrayal of life than anything else he has done. Unfortunately in The Black Swan everything is so obvious and everyone is an archetype and the characters relationships with one another are all one-dimensional. Natalie Portman is always wearing white because she is frigid and pure, Mila Kunis is always dressed in black....yawn. Honestly it has some of the worst dialogue I've heard in a script besides maybe Transformers. I think there is an episode of Full House that gives us the same sort of message about striving too hard for perfection. Anyways it's not very profound and I'm not seeing what people are impressed with about Natalie Portman. Is it really hard to talk in a soft quivering voice?

[[ETM]]

Should I go get popcorn or something? I smell a classic.

[Kurosawa Fan]

"The Wrestler" and "subtlety" don't belong in the same sentence, unless it's the one I'm typing right now. Or if you put the word "lacks" before "subtlety." Or any number of other words that mean The Wrestler wasn't subtle. So, I guess they can be in the same sentence, just not as it reads in the post above.

[DavidSeven]

Indeed. Really hope Portman takes a few awards home. Thought she was riveting the whole way through, but by the end I was astonished. Had no idea she had it in her. Same goes for Aronofsky (Pi - *1/2; RfaD - ***; The Fountain - *; The Wrestler - **).

Yeah, I didn't even mention Portman because I didn't want to be too hyperbolic out of the gate, but she blew me away. Struggling to think of a recent American female performance I was more impressed with. I mean, this was a stature maker. Personally, I thought this was There Will Be Blood/Breaking the Waves level stuff, in terms of acting.

I generally agree with you on Aronofsky's filmography. I kept thinking the wheels were inevitably going to fall off this one at some point because it was him, but damn, they just didn't.

[DavidSeven]

The Fountain would have benefited from the originally planned budget, but it was still a step forward for Aronofsky in terms of managing a larger scale production and bringing his own graphic novel to the screen. Like in Black Swan the melodrama is a bit heavy, but I think it works better seeing as it's based more in a realm of fantasy. The Wrestler went in a different direction and was stripped of all the gloss of his other films, and although melodramatic narratively, I think the execution was a great balance of subtlety and a much more realistic portrayal of life than anything else he has done. Unfortunately in The Black Swan everything is so obvious and everyone is an archetype and the characters relationships with one another are all one-dimensional. Natalie Portman is always wearing white because she is frigid and pure, Mila Kunis is always dressed in black....yawn. Honestly it has some of the worst dialogue I've heard in a script besides maybe Transformers. I think there is an episode of Full House that gives us the same sort of message about striving too hard for perfection. Anyways it's not very profound and I'm not seeing what people are impressed with about Natalie Portman. Is it really hard to talk in a soft quivering voice?

It's hard for me to respond to this because your perceptions of The Wrestler and Black Swan seem so foreign to me. Like we didn't watch the same movies. You praise the The Wrestler and then go on to say the characters in Black Swan are archetypal and one dimensional. That just doesn't compute in my head. And as KF suggested, The Wrestler is about as subtle as a powerbomb.

[Derek]

Aside from the praise for The Wrestler, I'm with Origami all the way. There is nothing surprising in Black Swan nor is there anything inherently interesting in its style that make telling the story in such an obvious, predictable fashion all that more interesting (as OM mentioned, the black/white dichotomy oooooh!, not to mention the laughable flashes of horror), so it really doesn't add up to all that much. That said, I did think Portman was very good - I'm normally not a fan, but this was her best performance - and the film's dialogue-free ballet sequences, so I still land on the positive side. Baffled by the raves it's getting, but understand it a tad more than his last film.

[Russ]

I did think Portman was very good - I'm normally not a fan, but this was her best performance
I agree with this, but I'm as baffled by the extremely high praise for Portman as I am the film. It was a showy role, and I'm sure she'll snag an Oscar nod, but one for the ages? Nah.

[DavidSeven]

I honestly didn't make much of this so-called black/white dichotomy. You mean the fact that her swan costume is white because her character plays a white swan in "Swan Lake"? Her everyday clothes aren't all white. Her warm up clothes aren't white. When she goes out she's not wearing white. I confirmed all of this on the trailer alone.

Edit: Not that it even matters. I mean, the obvious part was that the real life events were paralleling the show they were putting on. This is set up from the first frame onwards. Don't see how this hurts the experience one iota.

[TGM]

Holy crap what the hell did I just watch?! It's gonna take me a while to really process this movie.

[Fezzik]

Indeed. Really hope Portman takes a few awards home. Thought she was riveting the whole way through, but by the end I was astonished. Had no idea she had it in her.

I said this to my friends as we left the theater. Say what you want about it, but it I felt it was rather daring filmmaking. I love a film that surprises, and the camera work and the use of mirrors was often excellent.

I thought I knew what I was in for, until...

The eyes of the painting in her mom's room moved in a scene early in the film

And then I was like "oh shit...what did I get myself into."

I'm not going to talk it up or defend it to the people who didn't like it all that much, as I can see why others may have problems with it, but I thought it was a breathtaking, beautiful film anchored by an absolutely stellar leading performance.

Then again, we joked afterwards that this came off a bit like Fight Club for the ballet set.

[Derek]

I agree with this, but I'm as baffled by the extremely high praise for Portman as I am the film. It was a showy role, and I'm sure she'll snag an Oscar nod, but one for the ages? Nah.

I can at least understand Portman because she's always gotten more praise than I thought she deserved. Certainly not one for the ages, but she did at least exceed my expectations.


I honestly didn't make much of this so-called black/white dichotomy. You mean the fact that her swan costume is white because her character plays a white swan in "Swan Lake"? Her everyday clothes aren't all white. Her warm up clothes aren't white. When she goes out she's not wearing white. I confirmed all of this on the trailer alone.

Yes, I'm talking about the blunt color symbolism that is used throughout the whole film and that can also be confirmed in the trailer since it's not only obvious, but not presented in an interesting or even particularly artful fashion. I didn't make much out of it either and I imagine part of that is because Aronofsky had no intention of doing anything beyond using it as shallow symbolism.


Edit: Not that it even matters. I mean, the obvious part was that the real life events were paralleling the show they were putting on. This is set up from the first frame onwards. Don't see how this hurts the experience one iota.

I don't really see how it helps the film, I guess is my problem. Yes, the parallel/dual storylines are very obvious, but I don't think they inform one another in revealing or fascinating ways. It kind of settles on simply showing how dedicated she was to perfecting her performance and showing that simultaneously in literal and figurative ways. I get it - it's the ultimate method acting, she's lost in herself in the role/performance. I guess I'd be fine with Aronofsky just stopping there if the film were more consistently visually interesting, but I thought much of it never rose to the level of greatness in that area either. I guess I can see the film working well for people on a purely visceral level, but intellectually, there's not all that much going on.

[DavidSeven]

OK, I see where you're coming from, but I also agree that I don't think much was supposed to be made of the color schemes. I figured they were purely an aesthetic choice more than anything else. And I don't know, I actually do think the ultimate method acting thing is interesting, especially how applicable this notion of an enveloping purpose is across artforms (ballet, acting, directing, writing) and probably careers, education, and what not. And I have to say I did think the visceral experience rose to the level of greatness. Chalk it up to different strokes. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it split MC. But I'm glad the strong positives are mostly in the "rave" category.

[endingcredits]

You're making me agitated with this talk of blatant symbolism. My interest is still peaked, but now I'm a bit nervous.

[DavidSeven]

You're making me agitated with this talk of blatant symbolism. My interest is still peaked, but now I'm a bit nervous.

origami is making more of it here then it's made of in the film IMHO.

[Derek]

And I have to say I did think the visceral experience rose to the level of greatness. Chalk it up to different strokes. Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it split MC.

Yeah, this'll be one of those divisive films where you love it, hate it, like it or are meh on it.

[[ETM]]

There's nothing wrong with something splitting MC - it'd be downright unbearable if everyone had similar views. It's like with the critics - most of the time, you can get the feel for posters' tastes and background, and, for example, Qrazy being meh on something which Morris loved tells you what you need to know. So, Sven can avoid everything I ever liked, I can turn to KF if I need a harsh judgment on television and it all works out somehow in the end.

[origami_mustache]

Maybe Portman wasn't limited to white, but she basically wears only light colors throughout and several strikingly white costumes that stand out; not just when she is dancing as the white swan. I'm pretty sure Kunis only wears black. I may be making more of it than need be, but it certainly was a thought out decision. As for The Wrestler, I might need to go back and watch it again, as I just saw it once in theaters. Maybe subtle wasn't the best choice of words as the story itself (wrestling aside) is nothing atypical and fairly predictable, but the way it's executed and the performances felt very stripped down and restrained and there are a lot of subtleties that take it a tier higher than the standard formulaic film. There are some great little moments that wouldn't be in a typical melodramatic script such as "The Ram" playing video games with the kid or the scene with all of the has-been wrestler selling merch and signing autographs.

[Sxottlan]

Well I guess if you haven't seen the film, don't read the MSN Movies "Moments Out of Time" article. I was reading through it and it seems they posted a pretty big spoiler in one of their entries.

Although given the nature of the film, I guess it can't be that surprising.

[RoadtoPerdition]

I saw Black Swan earlier today. Wow. I went in with high expectations but, not to sound cliche, it really blew me away. Stunning performance by Portman. She captured the fragility and vulnerability of the character perfectly. I've never really considered her a very skillful actor, but after this, I won't doubt her skills again. I'm surprised at all of the awards love for Kunis over Hershey here though; I felt Hershey turned in the stronger performance.

[Pop Trash]

This was a great DePalma/Lynch/Polanski style thang. Or I guess I could just say a great mash-up of the surreal mindfuckery of Requiem with the athletic determination of The Wrestler. The first hour I was a little eh, but like Requiem, once it gets going, it never lets up, and by the end you are positively shaken with emotion. And, Jesus, Portman deserves the accolades.

[balmakboor]

This was a great DePalma/Lynch/Polanski style thang. Or I guess I could just say a great mash-up of the surreal mindfuckery of Requiem with the athletic determination of The Wrestler. The first hour I was a little eh, but like Requiem, once it gets going, it never lets up, and by the end you are positively shaken with emotion. And, Jesus, Portman deserves the accolades.

My hoping and imagining is that Black Swan will be something like The Red Shoes as reimagined by Brian De Palma. And since my favorite De Palma movies are mash-ups like Blow Out and Raising Cain, your post really has me salivating. Of course, this and the fact that I've loved every Aronofsky film so far pretty much clinches that I'll enjoy this when it finally comes to my town on Wednesday.

[DavidSeven]

I'm surprised at all of the awards love for Kunis over Hershey here though; I felt Hershey turned in the stronger performance.

I thought Kunis was great in this. I get the feeling people have been miscasting her this whole time. Her niche isn't cutesy; it's sexpot. Hershey was great too. If there was a weak spot in the cast, I'd say Cassel's casting and performance might be a bit on-the-nose, even for this film. Still, he has a couple really great scenes/moments that only a Vincent Cassel could pull off, so it's hard to imagine this without him.

[Pop Trash]

My hoping and imagining is that Black Swan will be something like The Red Shoes as reimagined by Brian De Palma. And since my favorite De Palma movies are mash-ups like Blow Out and Raising Cain, your post really has me salivating. Of course, this and the fact that I've loved every Aronofsky film so far pretty much clinches that I'll enjoy this when it finally comes to my town on Wednesday.

Much of it reminded me of Carrie as well. The entire ballet finale plays out a bit like the drawn out prom scene in Carrie. The only difference is in the formalities. DePalma likes widescreen, steady camera work, with stylistic tics like split-screens, slow motion, and split-diopter (so you get two sides of the frame in clear focus). Aronofsky here shoots in claustrophobic, hand-held close-ups (similar to the Dardennes and his own The Wrestler). Initially this style bothered me, but as it got going, I thought it improved the subjective feeling of being trapped inside Nina's mind. Anyways, I'd be surprised if you don't like it.

[Pop Trash]

Still, he has a couple really great scenes/moments that only a Vincent Cassel could pull off, so it's hard to imagine this without him.

He does "French creepo" very well.

[Lucky]

I'm probably in the minority, but the opening dream sequence is my favorite scene in the film. Tight camera angles, the lighting, the music, the dancing -- gave me a rush right from the start. Didn't feel that rush again until Nina went on stage for her black swan solo during opening night. The film surely lived up to the hype with its finale. I don't think Portman even said a word, but it was an intoxicating descent into madness.

[RoadtoPerdition]

I'm probably in the minority, but the opening dream sequence is my favorite scene in the film. Tight camera angles, the lighting, the music, the dancing -- gave me a rush right from the start. Didn't feel that rush again until Nina went on stage for her black swan solo during opening night. The film surely lived up to the hype with its finale. I don't think Portman even said a word, but it was an intoxicating descent into madness.

I would agree about the opening. I think it does a great job of hooking the viewer right from the start.

[Melville]

I loved the violently subjective, visceral style, the extreme emotions, and Portman's tremendous performance as a brittle woman overwhelmed by the threat of failure and by her own emotional reality. A lot of the symbolism and thematic underpinnings seemed underdeveloped and cliched though, particularly the whole double thing (it's no The Double...or even Synecdoche NY) and Portman's repressed sexuality and its relation to her need for control.

[Dillard]

Didn't like the film. Here are some disjointed thoughts.

- Don't care for Aronofsky's ham-fisted obsession with mutilation. Scene after scene without much of a rhythm.
- Strange that there's not much of a reality base to compare with Nina's insanity. This world is wonky from the get-go! And it really isn't very fun to live in the shoes of a supremely paranoid person for a whole film. Aronofsky gives the already off-balance protagonist a high-pressure situation and the fantasy does not deepen - it repeats itself.
- Mila Kunis' Lily is much needed for a breath of easiness. Never quite bought her role as a rival to Nina; just chalk her up as another of the many, many doubles in the film.
- This is an ugly male conception of the world, isn't it? Women are virgins or whores. Voyeuristic sexuality lingers at the periphery of every scene (even the mother/daughter scenes!) until it rears its ugly head as a major component of the artistic process. Everyone is ultimately self-centered.
- The mother paints weird portraiture in her bedroom? How is this odd turn to the character anything other than a tacked-on idea to play off of Nina's paranoia?
- Favorite scene (yes, there were some things that I liked!): the one where Nina observes a sculpture (of a swan/human-like figure?) outside of the party while she waits for Thomas. Aronofsky crafts her encounter with the sculpture with an air of mystery, and leaves the encounter at that, without explanation or melodrama.
- The film is a visceral theater experience, as are all of Aronofsky's films, but what is left after leaving the theater? For me, not much.

[Barty]

Holy shit. This movie kicked my fucking ass.

YES YES YES!

[B-side]

How did the film's themes relate to libertarianism, Barty?

[Kurosawa Fan]

Just found this playing in a theater less than a half hour from us. I think my wife and I are going to try to catch it sometime this week.

[B-side]

I liked it. It's blunt, over the top and occasionally silly, but it's all so gloriously operatic (cuz it's an opera herp derp) and subjectively melodramatic it's hard for someone like me not to get caught up in it all. Mila Kunis is still not much of an actress, and she brings down the film a bit here and there. It touches on the nature of celebrity, maturation and the artistic process in nicely broad fashion, not pushing any one thematic string too far. The physicality and sacrificial themes make it a fitting film in Aronofsky's canon. Though the bar sequence certainly fits Kunis' character's arc, it's very awkwardly handled and probably should've been reconceived entirely.