Hellboy 2: The Golden Army

[megladon8]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/megladon8/hellboy2firstpic.jpg


Sweet.

[Sven]

The teaser poster for this, with Mignola's artwork, is super-sweet.

[Sven]

http://nerdwithswag.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/hellboy2poster.jpg

[Watashi]

Del Toro said a trailer is going to be up sometime later this month. I can't wait.

[megladon8]

Del Toro said a trailer is going to be up sometime later this month. I can't wait.


Yeh same with me.

I really enjoyed the first one. I love Del Toro's films, especially the cinematography.

[Sycophant]

I really want to like this one, even more than I wanted to like the first one, which I didn't like all that much.

[Horbgorbler]

Cannot wait, though I must admit I'm still more curious about Del Toro's supposed adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness. He's probably the only major director I'd trust not to screw up Lovecraft.

[megladon8]

Cannot wait, though I must admit I'm still more curious about Del Toro's supposed adaptation of At the Mountains of Madness. He's probably the only major director I'd trust not to screw up Lovecraft.


Yeh, I agree on both points.

Although, I dunno, McG could probably do a good job.

[Stay Puft]

That's a great poster.

Enjoyed the first well enough. Never felt compelled to revisit it, but I'm up for a sequel. I watched the first animated movie, too. Again, it was fun, not sure I'd watch it again, but I'd watch the next one. Etc.

[Melville]

Anything with Mignola's artwork is super-sweet.
Fixed.

[bac0n]

As a fan of 1) Mike Mignola, 2) The Comic, 3) The first movie and 4) The Director, I can say that I am SO looking forward to this.

[KK2.0]

I really want to like this one, even more than I wanted to like the first one, which I didn't like all that much.

my thoughts exactly.


however, a friend of mine who works on the CGI for it says it's going to be much crazier... Unfortnately that's all the info i could get from him. :confused:

[EvilShoe]

I'm excited about this one.
The first one wasn't completely successful, but Ron Perlman's Hellboy is one of my "superhero" favorites.

Here are some new pictures:
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8876/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2sx7.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8946/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2rr1.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2720/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2kf2.jpg
(No one in particular on the left!)

[Qrazy]

Yeh, I agree on both points.

Although, I dunno, McG could probably do a good job.

Who is this, Red Beard?

[[ETM]]

(New member Johan Krauss on the left!)

I believe it's actually "Johann Kraus". Cool!

[EvilShoe]

;17950']I believe it's actually "Johann Kraus". Cool!
One more remark like that and I'm changing his name to "bowlhead".

[[ETM]]

One more remark like that and I'm changing his name to "bowlhead".

...or Bowlhead. Bowlhead is nice.

[EvilShoe]

;17952']...or Bowlhead. Bowlhead is nice.
You went too far.

[Grouchy]

I watched the first animated movie, too. Again, it was fun, not sure I'd watch it again, but I'd watch the next one. Etc.
The second animated movie, Blood and Iron, is ten times better. In fact, I loved both of them, but I gotta admit the second one is an improvement on animation and writing.

[number8]

Perhaps this can do better than the first one, since now they can use "From the Academy Award nominated director of Pan's Labyrinth".

[Ivan Drago]

Eh, I'm in the minority in this one, but I thought that the first one was mild entertainment and nothing more. I'll see this if I'm bored one day and it's in theaters.

[KK2.0]

can't see the pictures :cry:

[Grouchy]

The first one did so badly in the money department? I didn't know that. Audiences suck sometimes.

[[ETM]]

can't see the pictures :cry:

Now?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/th_hellboyiithegoldenarmy2kf2. jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2kf2.jpg )
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/th_hellboyiithegoldenarmy2rr1. jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2rr1.jpg )
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/th_hellboyiithegoldenarmy2sx7. jpg (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/hellboyiithegoldenarmy2sx7.jpg )

[KK2.0]

thanks!

They're stills or production pics? Lightning looks a bit... ugly, in my opinion.

Maybe it needs color correction in post.

[Sven]

thanks!

They're stills or production pics? Lightning looks a bit... ugly, in my opinion.

Maybe it needs color correction in post.

Those kind of stills are never "How It Will Be Seen In the Movie". They're just production stills, taken on set. I'm sure the lighting will be appropriately Guillermo-esque, provided it's still G. Navarro who's doing the cinematography.

[KK2.0]

Sure, his movies are all great looking. Silly me.

a new poster

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v89/aryamjr/01209959400.jpg

[Watashi]

Trailer (http://media.video.ign.com/ev/av.html?dlURL=http://moviesmovies.ign.com/movies/video/article/842/842768/deltoro_hellboy2_intro_flvhigh .flv&object_ID=041373)

Looks awesome.

[[ETM]]

Looks awesome.

Understatement of the day.:eek:

Can't wait to see some of that in higher resolution.

[Wryan]

Cool. Sure to be fun like first one, at the very least.

[Watashi]

Cool. Sure to be fun like first one, at the very least.
Yep. Hopefully Del Toro won't fall into a niche where he tries to outdo himself by making his fantasy creatures look freakier and freakier. Hopefully he strays away from the fantastical stuff as his career goes along.

[megladon8]

Wow, that looks really great.

I still really love the first one. It's so much fun.

[[ETM]]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/Hellboy2-2.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y216/sf_anime/Hellboy2-1.jpg

[Silencio]

That second monster reminds me a lot of the Faun in Pan's.

The film looks...colourful.

[[ETM]]

I think that's the Angel of Death... of course also played by Doug Jones.

[D_Davis]

Eh, I'm in the minority in this one, but I thought that the first one was mild entertainment and nothing more. I'll see this if I'm bored one day and it's in theaters.

I'm with you. It has some good parts, but over all I found it mediocre. Hopefully this one will be better.

[transmogrifier]

I'm with you. It has some good parts, but over all I found it mediocre. Hopefully this one will be better.

Sign me aboard. The original is merely adequate, and entirely overrated by many, but that is par for the course with comic book movies (Spider-man, Batman Begins, X-Men etc)

[Horbgorbler]

The first monster there looks more Mignola, the second more Del Toro.

[Morris Schæffer]

That looks okay. The trailer is initially promising, but soon degenerates in what appears to be a silly monster basher first and foremost, even if the creatures look kinda impressive, apart from that giant squid at the end (wtf?!). Then again, the original ended with Hellboy being swallowed by a giant worm, detonating a charge inside the creature and being spit out again by the ensuing explosion and that's just not my idea of a great superhero flick. I'm not really a fan of this particular universe though, the potential for silliness too big. However, I'm sure this could get the job done on a rainy and particularly boring evening.

[KK2.0]

Who you gonna call? :P


Can't resist a cool monster movie, even if my opinion of the first Hellboy are more on par with D_Davis & co. I hope that, since the exposition was already done in the first, Del Toro can improve the pacing and add more suspense despite all the kung-fu fighting in the trailer.

anyway...

MONSTERS MONSTERS MONSTERS

[Horbgorbler]

Then again, the original ended with Hellboy being swallowed by a giant worm, detonating a charge inside the creature and being spit out again by the ensuing explosion and that's just not my idea of a great superhero flick. I'm not really a fan of this particular universe though, the potential for silliness too big.


:crazy:

It was a Great Old One! And it burst from Rasputin's chest, for Chrissakes! How anyone couldn't get giddy over that is beyond me.

[KK2.0]

for Chrissakes! How anyone couldn't get giddy over that is beyond me.


word.

MONSTERS!

[Sycophant]

This is going to have a bunch of cheesy one-liners, isn't it?

:sad:

[[ETM]]

This is going to have a bunch of cheesy one-liners, isn't it?

:sad:

Who cares about text?

[Sycophant]

;18559']Who cares about text?

*raises hand*

[Justin]

That looked awesome, like a perfect combination of Mignola's art and Del Toro's previous work. As a big fan of the first film, this is easily one of my most anticipated of next year.

[Horbgorbler]

word.

ELDRITCH, DREAD, UNNAMEABLE COSMIC MONSTROSITIES!

Fixed. ;)

[Morris Schæffer]

:crazy:

It was a Great Old One! And it burst from Rasputin's chest, for Chrissakes! How anyone couldn't get giddy over that is beyond me.

Astounding! ;)

[megladon8]

Yeh, all the Lovecraft references have me quite giddy to see this.

It will be a theatre viewing without a doubt.

[jenniferofthejungle]

Some of the creatures remind me of Pan's Labyrinth. I can't wait to see this one.

[bac0n]

Don't know if anyone's seen these, but the trailer was posted on Jumpscare:

Here it is (with an intro by Guillermo Del Toro!) (http://media.video.ign.com/ev/av.html?dlURL=http://moviesmovies.ign.com/movies/video/article/842/842768/deltoro_hellboy2_intro_flvhigh .flv&object_ID=041373)

[KK2.0]

This is going to have a bunch of cheesy one-liners, isn't it?

:sad:

Cheesy one-liners are an essencial part of the hellboy character, i just wish the overall tone of the first film was closer to the comics, more like gothic-horror, less Men in Black/X-men.

[[ETM]]

*raises hand*

Snob.

[Yxklyx]

I see that Mr del Toro is still trying to scrounge up money for At the Mountains of Madness. :confused:

[Wryan]

Luke Goss is lookin a little Witch King there, only more agile. Is that part of Mignola's original design or is this a new character?

[Ezee E]

Looks great until Hellboy shows up and talks.

[megladon8]

Looks great until Hellboy shows up and talks.


What's wrong with his voice?

You dissing Ron Perlman? :frustrated:

[Raiders]

You dissing Ron Perlman? :frustrated:

I'm surprised he still has a voice. Look at all the upcoming projects. Damn.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000579/

[megladon8]

I'm surprised he still has a voice. Look at all the upcoming projects. Damn.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000579/


Yes, while I love the guy, he does pretty much do anything that comes his way.

I can't blame him - his paychecks are never too huge, and he needs to eat somehow.

[Watashi]

Full trailer: http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/7254432/

Man, this looks sooooo forgettable. It looks like a rehash of the first one.

[Grouchy]

Full trailer: http://movies.yahoo.com/premieres/7254432/

Man, this looks sooooo forgettable. It looks like a rehash of the first one.
This movie is getting more amazing by the second. Forgettable my hairy armpits.

[megladon8]

Yes, I too must disagree with Wats.

This looks delicious.

[Qrazy]

God Del Toro sucks. I always feel like he's tring so hard but he just cannot for the life of him craft a memorable set piece. He still uses the camera like an amateur, the only place he excels is in his creature designs and effects.

[D_Davis]

I wish Del Toro would just hurry up and make his official Lovecraft film so he can stop making pseudo-Lovecraft films.

He really needs to get Lovecraft out of his system.

[Grouchy]

God Del Toro sucks. I always feel like he's tring so hard but he just cannot for the life of him craft a memorable set piece. He still uses the camera like an amateur, the only place he excels is in his creature designs and effects.
I think you hold this incredibly wrong opinion for two reasons:
a. You're a douchebag the size of Godzilla.
b. You have a bias on his pop-corn work like Blade II or the Hellboy saga. In all seriousness now, I recommend you watch Cronos and The Devil's Backbone, two films of his that have zero creatures, less special effects and equally skilled filmmaking. Cronos specially has perfect shot composition.

[Morris Schæffer]

Hm. Somewhat agree with Qrazy. Del Toro's studio films are entirely disposable, but still somewhat enjoyable genre offerings. I really prefer Mimic to Hellboy, but I also must admit that Hellboy's universe doesn't really interest me. Would the fans argue that besides Perlman, who looks very true to the source, the first movie totally nails the comic?

I'd like to know that.

[Grouchy]

Hm. Somewhat agree with Qrazy. Del Toro's studio films are entirely disposable, but still somewhat enjoyable genre offerings. I really prefer Mimic to Hellboy, but I also must admit that Hellboy's universe doesn't really interest me. Would the fans argue that besides Perlman, who looks very true to the source, the first movie totally nails the comic?

I'd like to know that.
I don't understand the question. You're asking if Hellboy is true to the comic? Yes, very much so. The sequel even has an original story written by Mike Mignola specifically for the movie.

[lovejuice]

with grouchy, like it a lot. look hell lotta fun.

[Sven]

Right now Del Toro is on thin ice with me, and I have to say, this trailer, much as I liked the first film, does not inspire confidence. Still love Perlman, though.

[[ETM]]

I wish Del Toro would just hurry up and make his official Lovecraft film so he can stop making pseudo-Lovecraft films.

He really needs to get Lovecraft out of his system.

When did Lovecraft reserve all rights to the otherworldly and mystical, for all time?

[megladon8]

;52766']When did Lovecraft reserve all rights to the otherworldly and mystical, for all time?


I don't think you can deny the overtly Lovecraftian imagery in the Hellboy movies.

Hell, those dog-creatures in the first movie were basically mini-Cthulhu's.

And Del Toro has said on many occasions that Lovecraft is an enormous influence on his work. Mignola has said the same. So it makes sense that it comes through on a collaboration between the two.

[[ETM]]

That's all true, but being inspired by something is most often better than adapting it. Look at Jackson's Kong.

[Qrazy]

I think you hold this incredibly wrong opinion for two reasons:
a. You're a douchebag the size of Godzilla.
b. You have a bias on his pop-corn work like Blade II or the Hellboy saga. In all seriousness now, I recommend you watch Cronos and The Devil's Backbone, two films of his that have zero creatures, less special effects and equally skilled filmmaking. Cronos specially has perfect shot composition.

a) You're just jealous because you don't get any of Gojira's sweet, sweet poon juice.
b) Seen Cronos, I found it to be fairly bland, although a mildly competent genre picture. Although I do still want to see Devil's Backbone, I expect much of the same from it. The man is a competent storyteller, but he uses his camera in a very bland manner, and I've seen little evidence in improvement on this front. Pan's Labyrinth is his high water mark but even that find it's strength in it's story, not in it's storytelling.

[Morris Schæffer]

I don't understand the question. You're asking if Hellboy is true to the comic? Yes, very much so. The sequel even has an original story written by Mike Mignola specifically for the movie.

That was my question. I thought that my eloquent way of phrasing it left little room for confusion. :P

Joking aside, I thought that perhaps Del Toro's first Hellboy tipped the scales in favor of jokes and camp and sort of neglected the horror aspect of it. If you say that the first movie nails the comic, then perhaps it just isn't the kind of universe that impresses me. Mind, I'm sure that Hellboy 2 won't be boring, but that's damning with faint praise. The first one was a monster masher to me with little, if anything, bubbling underneath the surface. Nonetheless, I can't deny that some of those monsters appear to be visually tremendous.

[megladon8]

The comics are more gothic horror-y than the movie, yes.

Though the humor is still very much there in the comics - just a little more subdued, and morbid.

But the "aw crap" line is totally a signature Hellboy phrase.

[Grouchy]

The comics are more gothic horror-y than the movie, yes.

Though the humor is still very much there in the comics - just a little more subdued, and morbid.

But the "aw crap" line is totally a signature Hellboy phrase.
Yeah, it's true, the film is more monster-based than the comics, which have tales about ghosts, whichcraft and generally scarier shit.

You have to realize, though, the "scary" Hellboy stories are usually very short, and that's part of their charm. For a film adaptation and an origin story to boot, it would've been hard to write a Horror-based script. In fact, the two animated direct-to-video sequels (Sword of Storm and Blood and Iron) are more in the Horror vein than the movie, and they're an hour in lenght, I think.

Jesus Fucking Christ I'm a fanboy.

[Melville]

Joking aside, I thought that perhaps Del Toro's first Hellboy tipped the scales in favor of jokes and camp and sort of neglected the horror aspect of it. If you say that the first movie nails the comic, then perhaps it just isn't the kind of universe that impresses me. Mind, I'm sure that Hellboy 2 won't be boring, but that's damning with faint praise. The first one was a monster masher to me with little, if anything, bubbling underneath the surface. Nonetheless, I can't deny that some of those monsters appear to be visually tremendous.
The comics are much more varied in tone than the movie, but they don't have anything bubbling underneath the surface. Their success rests entirely on Mignola's incredible artwork, which I think the first film didn't really capture in any significant way.

[megladon8]

The comics are much more varied in tone than the movie, but they don't have anything bubbling underneath the surface. Their success rests entirely on Mignola's incredible artwork, which I think the first film didn't really capture in any significant way.


I disagree.

The stories in "Hellboy" are great. Sure, they're not deep or providing any in-depth analysis of society or politics, but they're smart and wittily written little pulp horror stories.

[Melville]

I disagree.

The stories in "Hellboy" are great. Sure, they're not deep or providing any in-depth analysis of society or politics, but they're smart and wittily written little pulp horror stories.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I love the pulpy stories. I guess I should have said "their amazing success rests mostly on Mignola's incredible artwork."

[megladon8]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love the pulpy stories. I guess I should have said "their amazing success rests mostly on Mignola's incredible artwork."


I'm glad people like his work - I love it :)

Have you read his novel with Christopher Golden, "Baltimore, or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire"?

It's wonderful. And his drawings are very basic and accent the mood of the story nicely.

[Melville]

I'm glad people like his work - I love it :)

Have you read his novel with Christopher Golden, "Baltimore, or, The Steadfast Tin Soldier and the Vampire"?

It's wonderful. And his drawings are very basic and accent the mood of the story nicely.
Nope. I demand 100% Mignola saturation from my Hellboy stories; I was really disappointed by his recent announcement that he wouldn't be drawing any more Hellboy comics.

Have you read The Amazing Screw-On Head? Zany, pulpy goodness.

[megladon8]

Nope. I demand 100% Mignola saturation from my Hellboy stories; I was really disappointed by his recent announcement that he wouldn't be drawing any more Hellboy comics.

Have you read The Amazing Screw-On Head? Zany, pulpy goodness.


No, I have not.

That was adapted into a short film, wasn't it? With Paul Giamatti, I think. It was a pilot episode for a TV show.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Hm. Somewhat agree with Qrazy. Del Toro's studio films are entirely disposable, but still somewhat enjoyable genre offerings. I really prefer Mimic to Hellboy, but I also must admit that Hellboy's universe doesn't really interest me. Would the fans argue that besides Perlman, who looks very true to the source, the first movie totally nails the comic?

I'd like to know that.

From what I read of the comics, it has great attitude in some parts, less success in other areas. One interesting thing is that the comics aren't that talkative. Instead, Mignola often has Hellboy as a quiet hero, and the images carry much of the conflict. He's a very visual author, and he has superb artwork in his arsenal.

Del Toro matches that best in the sequence at the snowy graveyard, where Hellboy unearths the dead body. The gi-normous clockwork cave scene also carries some of the style of the comics. But a lot of the story takes place on a regular comic-book movie level, especially with boring Agent Myers, who's basically our exposition receptacle.

[Melville]

That was adapted into a short film, wasn't it? With Paul Giamatti, I think. It was a pilot episode for a TV show.
Yeah, but the only thing I've heard about the adaptation is that it exists. Check out the comic if you get a chance.

[number8]

That Screw-On head pilot was magnificent. Best translation of a comic art I've ever seen in a cartoon.

[Melville]

That Screw-On head pilot was magnificent. Best translation of a comic art I've ever seen in a cartoon.
The whole thing is available on Google Video (although my internet connection is too crappy to watch the whole thing):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5434666681046246946

It does do a pretty good job of mimicking Mignola's art style, but it smooths out his linework and softens the colors a bit too much for my liking. Also, Mignola's layouts rely a lot on the power of a single still image and the juxtaposition of still images, which works really well with his drawings style. The cartoon, while slavishly copying his thin, uniform lines and blocky shadows (was he supervising the adaptation?), doesn't really adapt the effect of the pacing and layouts in an interesting way.

[megladon8]

Is there a reason why David Hyde Pierce is not returning to voice Abe Sapien?

[EyesWideOpen]

Is there a reason why David Hyde Pierce is not returning to voice Abe Sapien?

From what i remember he was a studio forced thing and Del Toro wanted Doug Jones who did the acting to voice Abe also so now he's getting his way.

[number8]

Pierce backed out on his own, kind of. He was hired to do the voice on the first one, but when he saw what Doug Jones did with Abe, he felt really bad taking the role away from him and demanded to have his name removed from the credits. They mutually accepted that he was not needed at all in the first place, so they didn't bother asking this time around.

[EvilShoe]

I'm also pleased Myers won't be in this one.

[Qrazy]

The whole thing is available on Google Video (although my internet connection is too crappy to watch the whole thing):
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5434666681046246946

It does do a pretty good job of mimicking Mignola's art style, but it smooths out his linework and softens the colors a bit too much for my liking. Also, Mignola's layouts rely a lot on the power of a single still image and the juxtaposition of still images, which works really well with his drawings style. The cartoon, while slavishly copying his thin, uniform lines and blocky shadows (was he supervising the adaptation?), doesn't really adapt the effect of the pacing and layouts in an interesting way.

lol that was awesome.

[KK2.0]

Too bad The Amazing Screw-on Head show never took flight.


I liked the teaser better but i'll watch this, gave up on waiting for Del Toro to do my version of the Hellboy comics, i'll take his Ghostbusters approach, it isn't bad actually.

That underground monster city actually made me look for a new version/remake of Clive Barker's beautiful flop NIGHTBREED.

[megladon8]

New viral marketing site (http://www.hetfet.org/)

[Horbgorbler]

New viral marketing site (http://www.hetfet.org/)

I'm not sure I can support any movie that thrusts such doggerel upon us. :|

[Watashi]

Now this is a fucking poster:

http://chud.com/articles/content_images/55/hellboyiistruzanchud.jpg

[megladon8]

I want that on my wall.

No, screw that...

I want it tattooed on my face.

[Dukefrukem]

this trailer looks great... wow i hated the first one too

[Rowland]

I saw the latest trailer for this before Indy, and it looks amazing. It's time for me to catch up with the first.

[Qrazy]

Yeah... that's what X3 should have looked like... except with Sentinels.

[Saya]

New Hellboy 2 trailer and the animated prologue (http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/hellboy2thegoldenarmy/hd2/)

I think it looks fun, the rock monster seem straight out of the Neverending Story.

[megladon8]

It almost looks like a Jim Henson-type film at some points.

I dig it.

[number8]

Seth McFarlane was hilarious in this.

[Sycophant]

Seth McFarlane was ... in this.
Wow.


Seth McFarlane was hilarious in this.
Double wow.

[Raiders]

Wow.

Well, in voice only. He plays the disembodied spirit... or something.

[number8]

He voiced Johann Krauss and he was talking in this ridiculous German accent the entire time. He lapsed into his Stewie voice a few times, like when he's giving Hellboy commands on the field, he kept yelling "SCHUTT EET! SCHUTT EET NOW! ZAT EES AN ORDAH, AZENT HELLBOY!"

I was cracking up.

[Boner M]

Armond on H2 (http://nypress.com/21/28/film/ArmondWhite2.cfm):


To those who would eagerly praise the deficiencies and clichés of Guillermo del Toro's Hellboy II: The Golden Army as daring pop, I propose The Ting Tings scintillating new single, "That's Not My Name." Once the song's chorus begins ("They call me Hell..."), The Ting Tings make Hellboy's campy, bad = good subversiveness seem like a stack of dusty old comic books. It reveals that today's comics-movies and their easily specious Pop attitudes distance us from realizing our own identities.

Fake Armond on match-cut's 2007 top 20:


Fact is, match-cut rejects the ebullient pop humanism of Deborah Harry's "ooh-ooh woah-woah" in Blondie's Heart of Glass, instead opting for the bombastic nihilism of Nicole Kidman's line reading of "no" in the latest Noah Baumbach film.

lolz

[Winston*]

That Ting Tings song is awful. I predict I will like Hellboy more than it.

[Acapelli]

That Ting Tings song is awful. I predict I will like Hellboy more than it.
if by awful, you mean awesome i agree 100%

but you obviously don't

[Sxottlan]

Just watched the first film in anticipation of seeing the sequel tomorrow.

Definitely not a great movie, but pretty good. The tone is all over the place however, in part due to some real sketchy editing. The editing overlaps a scene of great drama with one of lightheartedness and it just does not mesh well. Or else the editing just seems to drag a sequence on and on.

And a couple logic loop holes also pull me out of the experience. At one point, the abilities of Kroenen seem to be completely forgotten about by the John Hurt character just so the film can get the villain inside. I also had to wonder if Hellboy was just floating out there in deep space before that gateway was opened? What, was it just him and this big crystal out there all by themselves?

Fantastic imagery though. I had forgotten I had an avatar of Kroenen for a long time on RT.

[Watashi]

You think the tone is all over the place in the first film? Wait until you see the sequel.

It's good, but I like the first film better.

The ending though.... wow. I loved it. It's so freakin' cheesy and I applaud Del Toro for putting it in there. I predict it will be a big hit here.

[megladon8]

Wow, Jay Stone gave it 4/5.

He rarely likes superhero flicks.

[Watashi]

Wow, Jay Stone gave it 4/5.

He rarely likes superhero flicks.

It's because it's not really a superhero flick.

I'm beginning to side on iosos on Del Toro's storytelling ability. It's just not strong. Hellboy 2 has the case where it has too much comic slapstick to the point where the entire "end of the world" scenario is brushed aside and means very little.

[megladon8]

How is it not a superhero flick?

[Ezee E]

It's because it's not really a superhero flick.

I'm beginning to side on iosos on Del Toro's storytelling ability. It's just not strong. Hellboy 2 has the case where it has too much comic slapstick to the point where the entire "end of the world" scenario is brushed aside and means very little.
Ugh. I'll avoid this one then.

[Dukefrukem]

3.5/4 from Ebert

[number8]

It's because it's not really a superhero flick.

I'm beginning to side on iosos on Del Toro's storytelling ability. It's just not strong. Hellboy 2 has the case where it has too much comic slapstick to the point where the entire "end of the world" scenario is brushed aside and means very little.

Which is great, since the asides end up being the best scenes in the film. Loved how Del Toro wasted 10 minutes with Hellboy and Abe sitting around drinking beer and singing cheesy love songs.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Armond on H2 (http://nypress.com/21/28/film/ArmondWhite2.cfm):

So this Armond White...why is he name-dropped so much on this forum?

Because that review is awful.

[Qrazy]

I'm beginning to side on iosos on Del Toro's storytelling ability. It's just not strong.

This.

[megladon8]

:sad:

[Sven]

This movie is sooooo weak.

Big fan of the first, and this one has definite peaks (sing-a-long, slow-motion collapse onto a police car strangeness, freeze-frame-cue-pop-song closer), but its too bloated, too unfunny, too CG-heavy (WAY too CG-heavy), too much editing.

Basically, it feels like a Harry Potter movie. The worst bit was the excursion through the Troll market. Seriously? Soooo lame.

I wish effects artists would focus more on perfecting digital smoke, dust, and mist, because as the technique stands now, its too smudgy, fluid, and lacks texture.

Loved the bit with the forest god, though.

[megladon8]

I was disappointed, to be honest.

iosos pretty much nails my thoughts, but I think I liked it more than him.

It had some incredible set pieces, beautiful CGI (though yes, too much of it), and the Forest God was gorgeous.

But it's all just so...overdone. And tonally confused.

The times when it was at its best, it felt almost like a Jim Henson movie.

[Sxottlan]

I quite liked it.

Felt like a live-action Miyazaki film at times, especially in the film's two biggest set pieces. Fantastic sword fight at the end, certainly not something I was expecting. Overall a tighter film than the first with much better editing. The tone of the first one was all over the place, but this one felt more like a light fantasy film with some darker elements sprinkled in. No pun intended, but these films now strike me as the spiritual successors to the Ghostbusters films.

Luke Goss is good. Does he do his own stunts? I wonder if he got his start as a stuntman because his moves were pretty good in Blade 2 as well. The fight scenes here were almost better than what Yuen Wo Ping did in The Forbidden Kingdom earlier this year.

Yes, some of it felt like whimsy for whimsy's sake. Such as while I could see a pattern to the forest elemental and the creatures that give rise to the modern tooth fairy myth, what exactly is the guy with a town on his head supposed to be? Sure, he looks cool, but well, okay.

And maybe Nuada wouldn't be so angry and his people so downtrodden if they didn't live in a sewer. Still plenty of forest out there in the world. ;)

[Stay Puft]

Guillermo del Toro has gone wipe crazy. Some of the transitions were just terrible.

[megladon8]

I thought the film's tone was much weaker than the first.

If the first had poor "tone-management", then this one didn't even bother with any management at all.

This movie was like a schizophrenic fantasy/horror/romantic-comedy/action/mystery movie.

It really didn't work.

[number8]

Felt like a live-action Miyazaki film at times... these films now strike me as the spiritual successors to the Ghostbusters films.

YES! I thought of these too while watching it.

[Yuzna's Cufflinks]

Saw this lastnight. Dug it probably as much as I did the first. No more, no less. (I dug the first a lot)

[megladon8]

I'm putting together my review as we speak, but I'll say that I really don't like how Del Toro completely sacrificed story for the sake of more visual spectacle.

We go from setpiece to setpiece, each one trying to out-crazy the last, and the bits of romance and character that tie these scenes together really don't have much to them at all.

Similarly, there are so many gorgeous monsters introduced, then they disappear and we never see or hear from them again.

The "Angel of Death" monster seemed like such a waste.

[Sycophant]

I'm going to have to try to see this soon. Something in what I'm hearing sounds really promising to me.

[Skitch]

Caught it yesterday. I liked it. It didn't come across as dark as the first one...not that I associated dark with good, but it is an aspect of the Hellboy universe that I enjoy, as a opposed to the bright primary colors of most other comic book films.

The sword fighting was amazing, and I watch a lot of kung fu movies. Luke Goss is an incredible martial artist. Reminded me that I hadn't watched Blade 2 in some time...

[Dukefrukem]

I thought the film's tone was much weaker than the first.


Ouch..... that's not good at all.

[megladon8]

Hellboy II: The Golden Army

a review by Braden Adam


One of the hardest parts of writing a good story (whether it be prose, screenplay, or one of the many other mediums) is keeping a consistent tone. The feel of the movie has to have a natural flow, so that any deviation from that (comic relief, or a good scare) doesn’t seem out of place. This means the writer - and in this case, filmmaker - must have a good sense of timing. Like the ignoramus who cracks a “dead baby” joke in the middle of a maternity ward, a misplaced quip can ruin the mood completely. This is the biggest problem in Hellboy II: The Golden Army - it doesn’t know what it is. Like the big red hero himself, the film is so unsure of its own purpose that some scenes leave you scratching your head, wondering why, exactly, it was necessary to include such a thing.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2603/89570765uh0.jpg

“Visual spectacle” seems to have been the number one goal on the mind of Guillermo Del Toro with this film, which is really too bad considering the beautiful stories he has told over the years (including the original Hellboy, with its surprisingly touching love story). The love story between Hellboy and Liz Sherman is continued here, but mostly for comedic effect. Abe Sapien also finds love in this entry, but again, most of it is just used for comedy. These scenes tie together the various action set pieces, each of which try to outdo the last, and each is big and loud enough to have been the climactic scene in its own movie. The best one occurs around the middle of the film, where Hellboy does battle with a “forest god” - this enormous, pale green monster emerges from a under a busy New York street and begins to wreak havoc. As news and police helicopters arrive and begin to scan over the beast with their search lights, it brings back memories of Cloverfield, and its infamously strange monster. And as the “forest god” lumbers around the city block, it covers anything it touches (or bleeds on) with beautiful outgrowths of flowers and bushes. It’s one of the film’s many beautiful yet hollow sights.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9311/66460028fu8.jpg

And there are just too many of these beautiful sights with nothing to back them up. We see oodles of monsters throughout the course of the film, each one a visual delight unto itself. One scene involves Hellboy and Abe Sapien venturing to “The Troll Market”, a safe place for monsters located under the Brooklyn Bridge. This scene is somewhere between the Star Wars cantina, and a Jim Henson movie, as all of these monsters engage in commerce, each of them looking like something lifted right out of the pages of (surprise!) a comic book. Like the rest of the movie, it’s a visual treat...but so what? They go there looking for Princess Nuala, an Elven Princess, and we seem to be building up to a great mystery - how will they find her? Coincidentally, this just happens to be the exact same time that the Princess is sneaking around the market, looking as suspicious as possible. So, of course, it doesn’t end up being much of a challenge for our heroes to find her.

This is just lazy writing, and the film is plagued with it. The opening scene shows Hellboy as a small boy (and if there was ever a bad child performance, it’s here) being told a bedtime story about the Golden Army, Prince Nuada, and lots of other stuff that explains everything you need to know before going into the movie. Stylistically, it’s pretty neat the way that they had Hellboy’s imagining of the story in his head appear as an animated film for us to see. But it also foreshadows the painful level of exposition which occurs throughout the entire movie. Every monster introduced in the film is given a convenient “explanation” before they come on screen, then when they leave the screen you can be guaranteed you’ll never see them again. The “Angel of Death” character is truly a sight to behold, but its presence is a deus ex machina in its purest form. Hellboy, Liz and Abe are searching for help, a no-legged troll just happens to wander by and offer to bring them to someone who can help, he brings them to the Angel of Death who then helps them and (literally) vanishes into thin air. It’s not satisfying from a narrative point of view, and it’s a great representation of the huge differences between this film and the first one, released in 2004.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/165/56463842rg7.jpg

The first Hellboy had heart and soul, and Hellboy himself was a character we rooted for. He was well-rounded and interesting, and his internal struggle to discover whether he really is a demon, or if his human upbringing made him good was a great story. The sequel just doesn’t have this depth, and despite its many attempts to have heart, it fails. Scenes used to inject humanity into the characters are very funny, but they don’t really make them feel any fuller. In one scene, Hellboy and Abe sit together, drinking beer and singing along to Barry Manilow, both frustrated with how women can be so hard to understand. Scenes like this try to give the film the same heart that the first one had, but like the action scenes, they jump in and out without much to back them up, so watching Hellboy and Abe get drunk together may be funny, but it doesn’t give us the emotional connection we need.

The whole movie is just all over the place. Juggling between romantic comedy, horror, fantasy, action and drama, it never really finds what it really is. Some scenes are magical, and feel like a Jim Henson movie for the new millennium. Other scenes feel more like the Guillermo Del Toro we knew from Blade II, with fast-paced action and even some frightening visuals. Then other scenes, such as the very final shot of Hellboy’s confused face coupled with happy-go-lucky frolicking music feel satirical in their sense of humor. It’s all very confusing to take in, and it just doesn’t blend together all that well.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/990/23600546lf2.jpg

Perhaps another viewing is in order, and knowing what to expect will help smooth over the bumps and see the film as an entirely different beast from the first. But its differences are jarring, and while it is visually similar to the first - using the same colour palette and beautiful amber lighting - Hellboy II: The Golden Army feels more experimental than anything. It wouldn’t be surprising to read that Guillermo Del Toro was inspired by Spider-Man 3’s departure from its predecessors, and while this isn’t the colossal train wreck that Raimi’s threequel was, it proves that gorgeous visuals alone do not a good film make.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm a little late to the party but I saw this last night. Loved it. Much more effective in the 2nd movie about the secret worlds that live on the earth without humans knowing about them. What i was a little disappointed with is the fact that these worlds seems so easy to access. Like the troll world... it seemed like they went into the sewers and there's this giant door that no one talks about or tries to open...

Good write up Meg. Although i disagree with you about "the film is so unsure of its own purpose". I definitely thought this about the first film, but in this film things were wrapped up nicely. You say the love story between Red and Liz is mostly used for comedic effect, but their relationship was made relevant at the very end... (and btw, Liz looks a lot hotter in this film than the first one)

I agree with the bad child acting at the beginning. (That bothered me a lot for some reason) BUt the villain in this movie was fabulous and I like the threat that was made against Earth and the humans.

I enjoyed the film.

B+

[Wryan]

I liked it quite a bit. It is all over the place, and some of the humor doesn't work, but I liked it. Goddamn that swordfight was goddamn stunning.

Angel of Death was terrific.

[Sycophant]

Maybe I liked it more than the first, maybe I didn't. Can't give a good enough opinion on the first anymore. This one felt like the highlight reel of an interesting television show. There were some moments I liked, especially a particular musical moment between Abe (who I kept expecting to speak like David Hyde-Pearce) and Red, but the whole thing was too disjointed to really work. Most all of its ideas were underdeveloped. And it suffered from a severe case of making-up-the-rules-as-we-go in a way that saps a lot of dramatic tension because I can't figure what weight things are actually going to have.

Also, the editing in the first half hour or so was way too skittish. It was terribly off-putting.

[EvilShoe]

I didn't really care that much for it.
I wish the movies were more like the comics.

[Morris Schæffer]

I didn't really care that much for it.
I wish the movies were more like the comics.

What's the difference again? I'm going to see Hellboy 2, but I'm not sure I can take CGI and cheesy oneliners after The Dark Knight. Oh, I might enjoy it a little bit, but don't expect much.

EDIT: Will you go see Loft?

Oh, and Dutchboy rocks!

[EvilShoe]

What's the difference again? I'm going to see Hellboy 2, but I'm not sure I can take CGI and cheesy oneliners after The Dark Knight. Oh, I might enjoy it a little bit, but don't expect much.

EDIT: Will you go see Loft?

Oh, and Dutchboy rocks!
The tone, really. The comics are darker and more serious. There's still plenty of humour in them, it's just not as broad.
It's definitely no The Dark Knight.

Yeah, might go see Loft next week. Pretty much everyone has seen it by now, it's hard to avoid spoilers. (Been lucky so far)
You?

[number8]

Nah, the Hellboy comics have pretty broad humor too. They're just more balanced with really stark horror. The animated movies are more successful in adapting that tone.

[Morris Schæffer]

The tone, really. The comics are darker and more serious. There's still plenty of humour in them, it's just not as broad.
It's definitely no The Dark Knight.

Yeah, might go see Loft next week. Pretty much everyone has seen it by now, it's hard to avoid spoilers. (Been lucky so far)
You?

For sure I'll go and so far I've been able to avoid spoilers. Van Looy isn't really a cineaste however and so I'm just sort of expecting a cool mainstream thriller rather than something genuinely probing or resonating.

Fabrice "Calvaire" Du Welz also made a new movie called Vinyan with Emanuelle Béart that is supposed to be really impressive. Perhaps you've heard of it?

[megladon8]

The comics have broad humor, sure, but it's a totally different brand. The comics are more morbid, and similar to something you might find in a Beetlejuice type story.

Hellboy 2: The Golden Army was pretty much slapstick a lot of the time. That whole locker door thing went on way too long.

[The Mike]

There may have been flaws in this movie, but I refuse to acknowledge them. The funness/awesomeness level was high enough to counteract anything else.

[Grouchy]

There may have been flaws in this movie, but I refuse to acknowledge them. The funness/awesomeness level was high enough to counteract anything else.
This.

EDIT: The first one is still even better, though.

[The Mike]

This.

EDIT: The first one is still even better, though.
Agreed.

[number8]

The locker scene was my favorite. Seth MacFarlane killed in this.

[megladon8]

Seth McFarlane was my least favorite part.

He has such a great, strong voice...why did they get him to just sound like Stewie?

[transmogrifier]

Hellboy 2 > You can guess, Meg

[Winston*]

Hellboy 2 > You can guess, Meg
I think you need to mix things up a bit this season, throw some new blood into the mix.

[transmogrifier]

I think you need to mix things up a bit this season, throw some new blood into the mix.

Well, I've watched like two movies in the last month or so, so I'm afraid I'm going to be leaning pretty heavily on old material.

Unless you're speaking literally, in which case, I'm way ahead of you.

[megladon8]

I liked this a lot more the second time around.

I still feel it has some very serious flaws, but I was able to have more fun with it this time around because I knew to go in not expecting the first film.

Several attempts at humor fell flat, some really strange an unnecessary musical cues, and a little too much deus ex machina for my tastes.

But it's a fun, wild ride, and a visual feast.

And it has better giant robot fights than Transformers.

[Sycophant]

Remember how when you were a kid and you'd be playing some game where you were a wizard and your cousin was a knight and this girl from school was playing an archer or something? And then one of them would say "look at that dragon!" and none of your blows could pierce it? And then your cousin picks up a stick off the ground, says it's the Holy Wand of Trindor and pierces the dragon's throat with it? Then he explains that he had been schooled by his mentor, Lord Thrathreus about the Miznock Dragon's weakness to all objects manufactured by the hand of Trindor's personal carpenter, Ingantinon?

This movie felt kind of like that.

I wish this was a live-action TV series instead.

[Raiders]

Remember how when you were a kid and you'd be playing some game where you were a wizard and your cousin was a knight and this girl from school was playing an archer or something? And then one of them would say "look at that dragon!" and none of your blows could pierce it? And then your cousin picks up a stick off the ground, says it's the Holy Wand of Trindor and pierces the dragon's throat with it? Then he explains that he had been schooled by his mentor, Lord Thrathreus about the Miznock Dragon's weakness to all objects manufactured by the hand of Trindor's personal carpenter, Ingantinon?

My friends and I weren't that creative. We just played with Legos.

[Qrazy]

I wish this was a live-action TV series instead.

Apparently Del Toro had vague aspirations to do this, not sure if it's panning out or not.

As to the film, just watched it tonight. It was better than the first but not all that great. Del Toro's creature design always impresses but his overall storytelling continues to underwhelm me.

C+/B-

[number8]

An X-Files meets Heroes type show with the BPRD would be cool, actually.

[Sycophant]

An X-Files meets Heroes type show with the BPRD would be cool, actually.
I really do think so. And with what del Toro wants to do with the character and story, it seems like it would be a better fit. I kind of felt like Hellboy II ran like a pared-down version of a 13-episode series.

Also, was I the only one who thought Doug Jones wasn't quite a good enough replacement for David Hyde Pierce?

[Grouchy]

Also, was I the only one who thought Doug Jones wasn't quite a good enough replacement for David Hyde Pierce?
Being totally honest here, I couldn't tell it was a different voice actor.

They both did a very good and very similar job, methinks.

[Wryan]

Being totally honest here, I couldn't tell it was a different voice actor.

To me it sounded like Jones aping Pierce. A little bothersome, to be honest.

[Sycophant]

To me it sounded like Jones aping Pierce. A little bothersome, to be honest.This.

[Dead & Messed Up]

To me it sounded like Jones aping Pierce. A little bothersome, to be honest.

Maybe it's his way of easing into the role, and Hellboy 3 will have him just playing himself.

A similar thing happened with Storm in the X-Men flicks. The first one had the ridiculous accent, the second had her ease up, and by the third one, she sounded like Halle Berry.

[number8]

To me it sounded like Jones aping Pierce. A little bothersome, to be honest.

From what I understand, it was the other way around in the first movie--Pierce was basically aping Jones' original on-set performance, which is why he asked for his name to be removed from the credits, since what he did was just a "voice lift." So, you know, I suppose it's a case of the audience hearing one first before the other.

[Wryan]

From what I understand, it was the other way around in the first movie--Pierce was basically aping Jones' original on-set performance, which is why he asked for his name to be removed from the credits, since what he did was just a "voice lift." So, you know, I suppose it's a case of the audience hearing one first before the other.

Sounds plausible.

Though the voice is still basically David Hyde Pierce. With pauses.

[Ezee E]

Merely okay, but Del Toro can sure create a good look to his movies. There's more inventiveness with design then just about any other movie this year. Too bad its borderline silly at times. And the Hellboy character may just not be for me.

Love the comparison to Miyazaki films.

Del Toro certainly has talent, but as a storyteller, I don't really care for his humor, it's what hurt both of these movies.

[lovejuice]

not as good as the first one which i don't even like that much. although it really speaks to a child in me. feels like one of those movies you watched as a kid and don't quite remember much except it features a lot of other-worldly creatures. and that it brings joy to your heart.

a more bitter, adult version of me just grins at can't smile without you.

[Dukefrukem]

What didn't you like about this one that the first one had? For the record, I feel the opposite.

[lovejuice]

What didn't you like about this one that the first one had? For the record, I feel the opposite.
the first one is more in tune with mignola's comics. hellboy, to me, is a darker and more supernatural version of what could pass of as an indiana jones. having some sort of militaristic bolshevik/nazi as the villain is right on spot. an elf? not quite so.

the tone of the first movie, i think, is also darker. meg's comparison of the sequel to jim henson's is spot on.

[Dukefrukem]

the first one is more in tune with mignola's comics. hellboy, to me, is a darker and more supernatural version of what could pass of as an indiana jones. having some sort of militaristic bolshevik/nazi as the villain is right on spot. an elf? not quite so.

the tone of the first movie, i think, is also darker. meg's comparison of the sequel to jim henson's is spot on.

To me, I feel the first one does not do a very good job explaining Hellboy's purpose or power. I watched the first movie with little interest or care on the consequences of Hellboy, or even if he can be killed. The final battle sequence seals it. At least with the 2nd film, there was more to question within the film's universe. I realize this probably is the better forumla to go with in the series, considering there's a lot that needs explaining on where Hellboy came from for people unfamiliar, but I don't feel this is done particularly well.