Punisher: War Zone

[megladon8]

First image of Ray Stevenson as Frank Castle has been released...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/megladon8/PWZ_2150.jpg


Meh.

[Rowland]

He looks like Steven Seagal.

[Dukefrukem]

He looks like Steven Seagal.

my first thought too

[D_Davis]

my first thought too

Me too.

[MadMan]

He looks like Steven Seagal.I agree as well. And that's not someone you want to be compared to heh.

[Ezee E]

Looks like a video game.

[Mr. Valentine]

based on that picture alone he looks pretty much exactly as he's drawn in the Garth Ennis series.

[megladon8]

Official website is up (http://www.punishermovie.com/) with three new images.

Looks gritty as hell.


EDIT: And I have to say I think it's super-cool that such a "macho man" franchise is now being directed by a woman.

I haven't seen Green Street Hooligans, but it's been my experience that female directors have great eyes for composing shots and scenes.

[number8]

it's been my experience that female directors have great eyes for composing shots and scenes.

I don't really differentiate the two.

[megladon8]

I don't really differentiate the two.


Really?

I find there are some very distinct differences.

One that really sticks out in my mind is American Psycho - I don't think it would have been the same movie at all if it had been directed by a man.

[Sycophant]

Really?

I find there are some very distinct differences.

One that really sticks out in my mind is American Psycho - I don't think it would have been the same movie at all if it had been directed by a man.Of course, it would have been a wildly different movie had it been directed by Sofia Coppola as well. Or Vincente Minnelli.

I think 8 was referring to "have great eyes for composing shots and scenes." :P

[megladon8]

Of course, it would have been a wildly different movie had it been directed by Sofia Coppola as well. Or Vincente Minnelli.

I think 8 was referring to "have great eyes for composing shots and scenes." :P


Yes, I know.

And I think a male director would have shown more of the violence, and less of Bateman's self-obsession. Of course it would be a different film by Sofia Coppola, but I still think she would have had the same general content, and wouldn't have made it a slasher - which I think a male director probably would have.

[number8]

I don't think so.

[Skitch]

I'm an unabashed fan of Green Street Hooligans, so i'm in.

[Ezee E]

Every director would take a different approach. American Psycho seems a lot like a modern Clockwork Orange to me.

[EvilShoe]

Yes, I know.

And I think a male director would have shown more of the violence, and less of Bateman's self-obsession. Of course it would be a different film by Sofia Coppola, but I still think she would have had the same general content, and wouldn't have made it a slasher - which I think a male director probably would have.
We are such pigs.

[Lasse]

I thought Green Street Hooligans was a terrible film. :confused:

[Grouchy]

Yes, I know.

And I think a male director would have shown more of the violence, and less of Bateman's self-obsession. Of course it would be a different film by Sofia Coppola.
Yeah, or by Julie Taymor or Michael Bay or by Peter Greenaway. Or by a squirrel.

Anyway, I didn't even know there was a sequel in the making. Why isn't Thomas Jane repeating?

[Kurosawa Fan]

The smugness in this thread is unbelievable. You guys honestly can't see what meg is saying? I think in most cases there's a difference between the outlook of men and women, and I agree with meg that having a woman direct a balls-out action film like this will be interesting. I can't think of another action film like this directed by a woman. It could be a refreshing change from the ordinary machismo that is injected into nearly every film in this genre.

And comparing American Psycho to A Clockwork Orange boggles my mind. What connection are you making there E?

[number8]

I'm not being smug. I know what meg is saying but I just don't see it. I don't and refuse to believe that a woman have finer eyes and will shoot violence differently from men. I find that idea rather condescending to both sexes.

[lovejuice]

I'm not being smug. I know what meg is saying but I just don't see it. I don't and refuse to believe that a woman have finer eyes and will shoot violence differently from men. I find that idea rather condescending to both sexes.

how's about not just "shoot violence" but "tell story" differently from men? can you buy that?

[Morris Schæffer]

Women are different from men. I can't quantify this in exact numbers, but they are different creatures. End of debate. I don't think anyone has said anything condescending in this thread.

EDIT: What K-Fan said.

[number8]

how's about not just "shoot violence" but "tell story" differently from men? can you buy that?
Honestly, I'm not sure. I believe that it depends on the influences of the director how they shoot a story. Do women have different influences than men? I don't think so, but I don't know.

But I do know that I reject the suggestion that a male director would make American Psycho a slasher and downplay his self-obsession. What does that mean? That it takes a woman to recognize chauvinism?

[megladon8]

Women are different from men. I can't quantify this in exact numbers, but they are different creatures. End of debate. I don't think anyone has said anything condescending in this thread.

EDIT: What K-Fan said.


Exactly.

It's like when people say it's "wrong" to say that women are physically not as powerful as men (MOST OF THE TIME - yes, I DO know there are strong women out there).

It is not sexism. The same way that women are USUALLY more nurturing than men.

I'm surprised that there's even an argument here.

Perhaps I was wrong in saying women are "better" and framing/arranging a scene stylistically, but they're most definitely different.

[Kurosawa Fan]

I'm not being smug. I know what meg is saying but I just don't see it. I don't and refuse to believe that a woman have finer eyes and will shoot violence differently from men. I find that idea rather condescending to both sexes.

I wasn't referring to you.

[Eleven]

Yeah, I know I can totally tell the nurturing, womanly violence of Near Dark and Point Break.

[megladon8]

Yeah, I know I can totally tell the nurturing, womanly violence of Near Dark and Point Break.


Show me exactly where I said that women's directing is more nurturing.

That point was completely unrelated to my assertion that women film differently than men.

[Eleven]

Show me exactly where I said that women's directing is more nurturing.

That point was completely unrelated to my assertion that women film differently than men.

Just funnin'. Mostly. But I also don't believe most of us have seen enough films directed by women to make such a wildly broad assertion as you have.

Also, I'm not even sure what "nurturing violence" even is.

[Skitch]

Also, I'm not even sure what "nurturing violence" even is.

Anything preceded by the following:

"This will hurt me more than it will hurt you."
"Why do you make me do this, Charlene."

or

"Let's just be friends."

[megladon8]

Just funnin'. Mostly. But I also don't believe most of us have seen enough films directed by women to make such a wildly broad assertion as you have.

Also, I'm not even sure what "nurturing violence" even is.


Uh...once again, I never said anything about "nurturing violence". You're putting words in my mouth.

And I don't think I made a wildy broad assertion. Women are different from men. That's wild?

[Ezee E]

And comparing American Psycho to A Clockwork Orange boggles my mind. What connection are you making there E?

The two main characters are quite similar in my eyes. They are both young and are perceived as completely different people in the real world as to what they really are.

[Kurosawa Fan]

The two main characters are quite similar in my eyes. They are both young and are perceived as completely different people in the real world as to what they really are.

That's a pretty broad brush your painting with, and even still I'm not you're painting inside the lines. There are a few people who suspect Alex may be getting into trouble, and even still, that took place in the first 30 or so minutes of a two hour film. I'm afraid I can't climb aboard this crazy train.

[Eleven]

Uh...once again, I never said anything about "nurturing violence". You're putting words in my mouth.

Yes, which is why I made the term up by citing two fairly violent movies directed by a woman and combining your assertion that "women are USUALLY more nurturing than men." We don't really need to get into a whole discussion of traditional gender roles except as it relates to directing.


And I don't think I made a wildy broad assertion. Women are different from men. That's wild?

"it's been my experience that female directors have great eyes for composing shots and scenes."

"And I think a male director would have shown more of the violence, and less of Bateman's self-obsession."

Based on what?

Also, the extremely graphic violence of the novel was considered one of its most notorious aspects and by some to be unfilmable, not to mention that the yuppie satire and Bateman's complex self-consciousness are entirely forefront in the book, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that whoever got the directing gig, man or woman, would make similar choices.

[Skitch]

And I don't think I made a wildy broad assertion.


More like a wild assertion about broads!

I apologize. I couldn't resist. I'm frickin' playing tee ball here.

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, a female director could well sense an incredible statement-making "opportunity" to out-blow and out-testosterone her male colleagues. Certainly, Point Break seems like it could have been helmed by either a dude or a dudette. Ditto for The Peacemaker.

But women are still different.:)

[number8]

But women are still different.:)

I've been in their pants before. I know.

I don't think anyone here is crazy enough to say that women are no different than men. Just crazy enough to say that women directors are no different than men directors.

[lovejuice]

Yeah, I know I can totally tell the nurturing, womanly violence of Near Dark and Point Break.

haven't watched ND, and i don't think i am clever enough to tell off-hand PB's directed by female -- i just happen to know beforehand -- but in retrospective it's rather obvious. the running/chasing sequence is quite unique to action repertoire. there is no machine/car-phelia. all these admittedly might have something to do with screenplay, and not under director's influence.

[Dukefrukem]

http://www.marvel.com/i/content/st/3639new_storyimage1209638_full .jpg

[megladon8]

I'm looking forward to a trailer.

Hopefully in the next month or so.

Like The Incredible Hulk until just over a month ago, it seems like this has been in production for quite a long time but we still haven't really seen anything from it.

[Skitch]

I'm still interested...I really like Green Street Hooligans.

[Dukefrukem]

I watched Jane last night in the Mist and it reminded me of the other Punisher. That move could have been so much better with the right direction and a better ending.

[megladon8]

Could this end up PG-13? (http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=1&article=4936)

[Watashi]

Could this end up PG-13? (http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=1&article=4936)

The film isn't being made by Marvel Studios.

[megladon8]

The film isn't being made by Marvel Studios.


Really? I thought it was one of their releases for this year.

Well, that's good news.

[megladon8]

New photo...

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/110/pwzzy7.th.jpg (http://img165.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pwzzy7.jpg)

[Qrazy]

Women are different from men. I can't quantify this in exact numbers, but they are different creatures. End of debate. I don't think anyone has said anything condescending in this thread.

EDIT: What K-Fan said.

How is that the end of the debate at all? It says nothing about whether or not in practice women direct films differently than men. My answer would be sometimes yes they are united by common goals and interests, but it's hard to differentiate between direction based on sex and individuality so it's probably best left as an open question... but still an interesting one. Russians, Japanese and Americans all direct films differently and a lot of it has to do with cultural aesthetic... but is it purely geographical (both aesthetic and social similarities) or can artistic traits be passed on... women are raised in as unique a milieu (peers, etc) to men... as say an African American (ex: Spike Lee) is to a Caucasian American (ex: Spielberg). Again it's hard to differentiate between unique artistic traits and socially inherited traits, but I bet commonalities could be found... just as a great deal of African American literature shares a unique yet similar cadence (Douglass, Hughes, Hurston, etc).

[megladon8]

Since Marvel is rebooting this franchise and the Hulk franchise, is there any chance at all that they might redo Daredevil?

He's one of their best characters, and I'd still like to see them give the Devil his due.

number8, maybe?

[Grouchy]

Since Marvel is rebooting this franchise and the Hulk franchise, is there any chance at all that they might redo Daredevil?

He's one of their best characters, and I'd still like to see them give the Devil his due.

number8, maybe?
I hope someone hears you.

I love the joke in Marvel/DC After Hours (http://www.youtube.com/user/ItsJustSomeRandomGuy) (youtube series) when Daredevil, who hasn't seen his own movie for obvious reasons, still thinks Guy Pearce played him.

[number8]

He's one of their best characters, and I'd still like to see them give the Devil his due.

number8, maybe?

Sure, I'll write a DD movie. Why not. I'd rather write a sequel than a reboot though.

[Ezee E]

Sure, I'll write a DD movie. Why not. I'd rather write a sequel than a reboot though.
what would your approach be?

I'm still meh on Daredevil as a whole. I never saw much interesting about him.

[Qrazy]

what would your approach be?

I'm still meh on Daredevil as a whole. I never saw much interesting about him.

Isn't he a blind fighter for justice? I smell an oscar.

[Grouchy]

what would your approach be?

I'm still meh on Daredevil as a whole. I never saw much interesting about him.
Read all the Frank Miller stuff (Born Again specially) and the Bendis/Maleev run, and tell me again. Daredevil is one of the grittiest, most vulnerable crime-fighters. Love the character.

About the film, the Ed Norton Hulk is both a sequel and a reboot, so I don't see why they couldn't do the same with Daredevil - who needs it a lot more badly.

[number8]

what would your approach be?

If you've read Frank Miller's Born Again and Bendis' story about his identity being leaked to the press, it's a bit half and half.

It starts with Matt's ex-girlfriend Karen Page a junkie in Mexico, selling DD's identity to get a fix. The info eventually reaches Kingpin, comfy as shit in white collar prison, and he tells his lawyer to go order a hit on everyone who has ever touched the info or spoken to someone who has. Cue gangster style killings montage over credits. Cut to title SIX MONTHS LATER.

Matt gets up one morning and finds all his assets frozen by the IRS, his accountant quits, his bills aren't paid, etc. His law license is suspended because a good cop swears that he saw Matt bribe a witness in a murder trial. Everything goes wrong from there, a direct adaptation of Born Again's first act (Affleck said years ago that he'd only do a sequel if they adapt Born Again), where Matt's personal and professional life goes to shit. Matt starts questioning his friends and goes mad fighting with himself whether or not the whole thing is the work of a villain. That's until his apartment is bombed. "Great job, Wilson. Until now nothing about this said 'gangster'. But you can't resist signing it, can't you?"

When news break out that Kingpin's sentence has finally been overturned. Matt goes to see him to kill him, but Kingpin beats the broken and malnourished Murdock easily, then he uses Matt's billy club to beat a cab driver to death and sticks both bodies in a cab thrown off the pier. When they find the cab, there's only one body. Kingpin knows that Matt escaped alive but can't find him. To weed him out, Kingpin finally outs him to the press.

At this point, Matt is being taken care of by a nun at a halfway home, who nurses him back to health. There, Matt reunites with Karen and they both begin to help rehabilitate each other. Matt, knowing that he has to clear his name, comes out of hiding to get his shit together, even gaining his law practice back. His battle with the press, suing them for libel, creates a media frenzy and painting a target on his head for disgruntled criminals, including Bullseye. Bullseye breaks into Matt's new home and kills Karen, then brags to Matt about killing two of his girlfriends already. Matt goes ballistic and kicks the shit out of Bullseye. He picks up a jagged rock and tortures him by cutting Bullseye's logo into his forehead. Bullseye literally pisses his pants and gets taken away as a useless heap of nothing.

Knowing that Matt's too dangerous to toy with now, Kingpin mobilizes a meet for all the mob bosses in New York to work together and whack Murdock. Matt crashes the party and beats the shit out of Kingpin in front of everyone. Then he ties Kingpin to a car and sends him off to the water like he did to him earlier. Matt turns to all the mafiosos and says, "You all want a Kingpin so bad? If this city can't survive without someone telling them what to do, then so be it. From now on, I'm the Kingpin."

In the following months, New York's murder rate actually goes down as DD rules the underworld, while Matt Murdock keeps suing everyone who has ever called him Daredevil. The very last scene is in the church from the first movie, at night. The nun walks in and prays while crying. DD is crouching above the entrance, listening to her heart. She knows he's there and they talk about his new way of fighting crime. DD asks her if she's his mom. She says no and leaves, but he hears her heart skip. The camera pulls back from DD, across the church, and rests behind the big cross. DD wails in agony and throws his billy club at the cross, but it misses and hits the camera instead. Cut to black.

[Grouchy]

Love it, but on any Born Again adaptation, I'd like to see Nuke. That's a villain that would fit in well in a hard-boiled movie action scene.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dc/Wolvieorigins2.jpg

[number8]

Ugh, Nuke is silly, and a stereotypical liberal 80s (which Frank Miller was back then) reaction to Rambo. I always thought that was the lousiest part of Born Again. It's an interesting (but overdone) villain for Captain America, but it has no place in Daredevil at all.

[Grouchy]

Ugh, Nuke is silly, and a stereotypical liberal 80s (which Frank Miller was back then) reaction to Rambo. I always thought that was the lousiest part of Born Again. It's an interesting (but overdone) villain for Captain America, but it has no place in Daredevil at all.
I kind of agree with that he isn't a Daredevil villain at all, but it fits very well into your storyline. Murdock faces against Bullseye, then against Nuke and finally against Kingpin himself, declaring himself king of the underworld and all. Three bosses are better than two.

[Qrazy]

I kind of agree with that he isn't a Daredevil villain at all, but it fits very well into your storyline. Murdock faces against Bullseye, then against Nuke and finally against Kingpin himself, declaring himself king of the underworld and all. Three bosses are better than two.

Ehh... isn't too many bosses why a lot of superhero films fail?

[Ezee E]

Ehh... isn't too many bosses why a lot of superhero films fail?
Too many bosses with different agendas. Batman Begins does it right.

[Qrazy]

Too many bosses with different agendas. Batman Begins does it right.

True.

[transmogrifier]

Too many bosses with different agendas. Batman Begins does it right.

Not really, not at all. The villains in BB were dull in the extreme.

[Qrazy]

Not really, not at all. The villains in BB were dull in the extreme.

Anarchists and dope pushers? Come on now, doesn't get much better.

[Morris Schæffer]

Not really, not at all. The villains in BB were dull in the extreme.

Although I do think they had the same agendas, I too think they were rather dull.

Not sure what Scarecrow's agenda was.

[Grouchy]

Ehh... isn't too many bosses why a lot of superhero films fail?
Like Ezee says, it fails when each has their own agenda, like in Spiderman 3, and the story gets way too convoluted. If a villain hires two sub-villains as hired killers, that could work.

[number8]

Hmm. I dunno if it has much to do with their own separate agendas. In the end, they all have the same agenda: kill the hero. Don't they all always end up working together halfway into the movie? What's the difference if they team up or if they're sub-ordinates to one big bad? I even think it's more interesting if the villains have conflicted agendas.

I don't buy this whole "more villains = crappier movie" thing.

[Grouchy]

Hmm. I dunno if it has much to do with their own separate agendas. In the end, they all have the same agenda: kill the hero. Don't they all always end up working together halfway into the movie? What's the difference if they team up or if they're sub-ordinates to one big bad? I even think it's more interesting if the villains have conflicted agendas.

I don't buy this whole "more villains = crappier movie" thing.
Well, it doesn't work like math, it also depends on the quality of the writing. I think we're all very clearly thinking of Spiderman 3, which was chock-full of villains and didn't focus on any of them.

Actually, when I said three bosses are better than two, I didn't mean that there were more of them. I just meant that three is the magic number.

[Qrazy]

Hmm. I dunno if it has much to do with their own separate agendas. In the end, they all have the same agenda: kill the hero. Don't they all always end up working together halfway into the movie? What's the difference if they team up or if they're sub-ordinates to one big bad? I even think it's more interesting if the villains have conflicted agendas.

I don't buy this whole "more villains = crappier movie" thing.

Well I just find that historically when the writer tries to push too many villians into the script things get bloated, unwieldy and not enough attention is given to the history/psychology of the villians on display. It's do-able but it requires a very delicate balancing act.

[Skitch]

I'm definately on board for more Daredevil movies.

[Watashi]

Teaser (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=45913)

Oh man, this looks awful.

[megladon8]

Damn, that looks bad.

I hope it is better than it looks, but I'm probably hoping for too much.

[eternity]

Great Odin's Raven does that look terrible. The completely over the top cinematography, Ray Stevenson's Seagal deadringing both in voice and look, it's just so, dare I say it, Batman and Robin esque.

[Dukefrukem]

that looks so bad!!!!!!!!!

"sometimes i'd like to get my hands on god"

now this is a sequel to the other one right?

[megladon8]

that looks so bad!!!!!!!!!

"sometimes i'd like to get my hands on god"

now this is a sequel to the other one right?


No, it's not.

It's a re-boot of the series.

[Dukefrukem]

No, it's not.

It's a re-boot of the series.

were they THAT unhappy with the earlier one? Now they have to go through the whole killing his family thing again?? damn it...

[megladon8]

were they THAT unhappy with the earlier one? Now they have to go through the whole killing his family thing again?? damn it...


Yep...it didn't perform overly well at the box office, and it wasn't too well received critically, either.

This one looks worse.

I'll still be there opening day, though.

[Dukefrukem]

Jane was great in the 04 one.... if they changed the ending around the movie wouldn't be as bad.

[megladon8]

Jane was great in the 04 one.... if they changed the ending around the movie wouldn't be as bad.


It needed a whole new script.

And I have to say, the direction was pretty vanilla.

I enjoyed the idea of him setting up many of the baddies - the whole thing with Will Patton and Travolta's wife was great.

But man, the dialogue was atrocious. And the whole love interest thing really wasn't handled well.

I really enjoy the movie, but it's hardly "great".


And yes, I agree Jane was awesome...but he would never do another one. He absolutely loathes working out, and has stated many times that he would have to be paid a monumental sum of money to go through all the physical / military training again.

[megladon8]

Oh and I gotta say...I never watched Rome so that trailer was pretty much my introduction to Ray Stevenson...

Man that guy has a great voice.

I've watched the trailer three times now, and while it certainly looks bad, it at least looks like it'll have some uber-stylized ultra-violence.

[Dukefrukem]

It needed a whole new script.

And I have to say, the direction was pretty vanilla.

I enjoyed the idea of him setting up many of the baddies - the whole thing with Will Patton and Travolta's wife was great.

But man, the dialogue was atrocious. And the whole love interest thing really wasn't handled well.

I really enjoy the movie, but it's hardly "great".


And yes, I agree Jane was awesome...but he would never do another one. He absolutely loathes working out, and has stated many times that he would have to be paid a monumental sum of money to go through all the physical / military training again.

I agree. Any scene inside Frank's apt was very slow and uninteresting. But the film opened perfectly with the slaughter, and him rising out of the water. I thought to myself, now he's gonna kick some ass...

[number8]

Aside from the upside-down shooting (which Frank Castle would never have bothered doing), I don't think it looks bad.

[megladon8]

Aside from the upside-down shooting (which Frank Castle would never have bothered doing), I don't think it looks bad.


Yes, I thought that too...I've never read a Punisher book where he did something that fancy.

He'd either just blow up the whole room, or run in and shoot everyone. Or both.

[number8]

He'd done attacks from above before, but he's a trained soldier, not an idiot who wants to look cool. Typically, he'd drop a couple of grenades to take out large chunks and disorient the rest, then he'd drop some smoke grenades and drop down with a gas mask and an assault rifle to finish them off. He's nothing but meticulous and thorough.

[megladon8]

He'd done attacks from above before, but he's a trained soldier, not an idiot who wants to look cool. Typically, he'd drop a couple of grenades to take out large chunks and disorient the rest, then he'd drop some smoke grenades and drop down with a gas mask and an assault rifle to finish them off. He's nothing but meticulous and thorough.


Have you ever written anything Punisher related?

I always felt he was a character who deserved some really good, snappy dialogue - none of this "every line is a one liner" stuff.

The stuff I've read by you has fantastic dialogue. You should give it a shot if you haven't already.

[Dukefrukem]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/xslayer91/ThePunisher.jpg

aside from the ending this was my most hated scene in the Punisher... why would be bother brining a bow and arrow set to assault an office building... ?

[megladon8]

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/xslayer91/ThePunisher.jpg

aside from the ending this was my most hatered scene in the Punisher... why would be bother brining a bow and arrow set to assault an office building... ?


It's completely silent.

[Dukefrukem]

It's completely silent.

So a suppressor couldn't replace it?

[megladon8]

So a suppressor couldn't replace it?


A pistol with a silencer wouldn't be as clean and quiet as a bow and arrow.

I agree it was kind of ridiculous, but at the same time, I do understand the logic behind it.

[megladon8]

And I don't know where these comments about Ray Stevenson looking like Steven Seagal come from - people on CBR, SuperHeroHype, and several other sites have said this.

He looks like the Punisher from the covers of the Garth Ennis books.

[Morris Schæffer]

Marvel property or not, you could replace Castle with any kind of vigilante and it'd be the same movie. Could The Punisher be the most generic of Marvel properties?

[number8]

Have you ever written anything Punisher related?

I always felt he was a character who deserved some really good, snappy dialogue - none of this "every line is a one liner" stuff.

The stuff I've read by you has fantastic dialogue. You should give it a shot if you haven't already.

Never actually written a story, but I did jot some ideas once in my idea book of a short story about Castle having to interrogate a mook and the guy fought back by accusing him of being racist against his own kind because of his special hatred towards wiseguys, bringing up Italian guilt and how his parents changed their name from Castiglione to Castle, American culture wars, yadda yadda. I never went further with it because I decided it was kind of dumb.

[megladon8]

Lexi Alexander made a post on her blog (http://lexialexander.com/) about the trailer.

So this is going to be one very, very violent and gorey movie if her words are anything to go by...


I am utterly impressed, though, they managed to find that much PG rated action footage at all. It had to be a challenge to cut a trailer from our action stuff without showing any gore and blood.

[megladon8]

Some new posters. I actually really like them, especially the second one where his face is in shadow.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1401/pun4vp8.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pun4vp8.jpg)

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/527/pun3wb5.th.jpg (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pun3wb5.jpg)

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/1976/pun2nm6.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pun2nm6.jpg)

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9606/pun1gg6.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pun1gg6.jpg)

[megladon8]

The new R-Rated trailer (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/382367/punisher-war-zone/videos/punisher_warzone_072308.html) from ComicCon.

Um...holy gore :eek:


And you may want to turn your speakers down.

There's no dialogue 'til the very end when he says "This is just the beginning", and the song played in the trailer is totally obnoxious.

[Acapelli]

holy shit

:eek: indeed

[megladon8]

holy shit

:eek: indeed


I've never seen someone get shot in the face with a shotgun at close range...in a trailer.

[megladon8]

Pretty sweet new poster...

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/6339/punposterbu9.th.jpg (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=punposterbu9.jpg)

[Saya]

http://i34.tinypic.com/122zrli.gif

That's really gory! :eek:

[Dukefrukem]

goly gore indeed,,,

punched a chair leg into that guys eye

[Morris Schæffer]

Goddamn! Doesn't mean it'll be great, but goddamn!

[Saya]

It seems that the director, Lexi Alexander, has been fired from the movie.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/37642


Lexi Alexander has been kicked to the curb - part of that treatment was her "honeymoon" from Comic Con. However, there's more totally awesome wedding gifts that Lionsgate has given the blushing bride. She's off the movie and wrapped up in a non-disclosure clause - so we won't be hearing from her anytime soon, UNLESS THINGS CHANGE RADICALLY - but Lionsgate isn't necessarily known for calming down. They've decided to market it HARD CORE - and they've decided to jettison the composer for the film in lieu of loud thrashing metal, because nothing says PUNISHER like raspy amps.

[megladon8]

That's...really crappy news.

[Rottentomatoesoup]

Really, to honest, when I think Punisher I think Papa Roach.

[megladon8]

I'm still a little puzzled by the firing of Lexi Alexander.

The movie has already finished shooting, and is probably nearing completion in the post production stages.

It seems like it's pretty late in the game for that to happen.


EDIT: And this interview (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/382367/punisher-war-zone/videos/sdcc08_punisher_raystevenson1_ drs08.html) with Ray Stevenson seems promising.

He said it's basically a movie version of the MAX series.

Also this interview (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/382367/punisher-war-zone/videos/sdcc08_punisher_galeannhurd1_d rs08.html) with Gale Anne Hurd is from ComicCon today, and it doesn't mention anything aobut Lexi Alexander leaving the project.

In fact, she still seems very supportive of her.

[megladon8]

So, since Marvel seems to feel pretty comfortable repeating themselves when something stinks, having now rebooted the Hulk franchise, and the Punisher franchise twice...

...any chance there'll be another Daredevil movie?

[Ezee E]

...any chance there'll be another Daredevil movie?

Or Elektra?

::puts gun to head::

[megladon8]

Or Elektra?

::puts gun to head::


:lol:

But seriously, I'd love to see another Daredevil movie.

I'm one of the few people who actually thought the first one wasn't that bad - terrible dialogue, and some scenes that really needed to be axed (such as the playground fight), but I thought it had some great action elements, and some of the best sound design in the last 5 years.

Maybe he's pushing it in terms of age, but I'd still like to see Guy Pearce tackle the role.

[Grouchy]

Heh, that reminds me of the Marvel vs. DC: After Hours YouTube videos.

Can't find the episode I'm talking about but...

SPIDERMAN: So, Daredevil, you've seen your movie?
DAREDEVIL: ...
SPIDERMAN: Oh. Right. Sorry about that.
DAREDEVIL: I've always been curious about it, though. How was Guy Pearce?
SPIDERMAN: Oh, man.

[Dukefrukem]

:lol:

But seriously, I'd love to see another Daredevil movie.

I'm one of the few people who actually thought the first one wasn't that bad - terrible dialogue, and some scenes that really needed to be axed (such as the playground fight), but I thought it had some great action elements, and some of the best sound design in the last 5 years.

Maybe he's pushing it in terms of age, but I'd still like to see Guy Pearce tackle the role.

Most of the special effects scenes in that movie looked unfinished. It was a tremendous eye sore.

[megladon8]

New trailer. (http://www.spike.com/presents/punisher)

[megladon8]

Wow, LionsGate is really the fuck-up of the year.

They may be pursuing a PG-13 rating for this. (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/articles/4948.asp)

Between this and Midnight Meat Train, I'm kind of wanting to boycott these bastards.

[number8]

I've been hearing about this, but given the footage we've seen, some heavy reediting is in order.

The new head at Lionsgate is a fucking idiot if he thinks a material like Punisher can have wide PG-13 appeal like Batman.

[megladon8]

I've been hearing about this, but given the footage we've seen, some heavy reediting is in order.

The new head at Lionsgate is a fucking idiot if he thinks a material like Punisher can have wide PG-13 appeal like Batman.


I don't even know how they could make a PG-13 movie out of this.

Lexi Alexander said herself that it was near impossible to make a non-R-rated trailer out of the footage they shot.

This is just so incredibly stupid.

[Skitch]

I heard the fired her. Fucking pissed if they did...I like her...

[megladon8]

Oh man, this is a relief. (http://rawstudios.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=55&view=findpost&p=12150).

Steve Gainer (cinematographer of the film) dispelled a lot of rumors going around about the movie.

Lexi Alexander is still very much involved, and there is no way that the movie is PG-13.

[Morris Schæffer]

Yeah, official now:


After some rumor and speculation that the new 'Punisher: War Zone' movie would be some namby-pamby PG-13 movie for the kids, the MPAA has handed-down its rating for the film.

The movie is officially rated "R" for pervasive strong brutal violence, language and some drug use.

There you go, Punisher fans. Not just violence. Not just brutal violence. Not just strong brutal violence. Pervasive strong brutal violence!

[Skitch]

Sweet.

[megladon8]

Meet Jigsaw. (http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/382367/punisher-war-zone/videos/punisher_vil_111908.html)


Seems like a nice enough guy.

[NickGlass]

I'm going to be a press screening of this next week because I'm HARDCORE.

[Ezee E]

NickGlass and The Punisher is an event that I'd love to see.

[number8]

Stupid Thanksgiving vacation. I had to pass on an offer for Ray Stevenson interview.

[EvilShoe]

Why does Dominic West choose such terrible movies to work on?

[MadMan]

After seeing trailers for this, I think it looks terrible.

[NickGlass]

Dear lord, is this what I get for being open-minded? It's not just the violence that's disgusting (that I expected), but its muddled ideology.

Perhaps my favorite moments during this film came from the audience members.

[Watashi]

It can't be as bad as Max Payne?

[Dukefrukem]

It can't be as bad as Max Payne?

No way. Its very hard to be that bad.

[number8]

Wow. I'm actually floored at how shitty this is. Acting, directing, writing, cinematography, editing, even music... It's fucking terrible on all fronts.

I want my Jane back.

[megladon8]

Even the action sucks?

That's too bad.

And I've been wanting Thomas Jane back ever since day one when they announced they were making a sequel/reboot without him :sad:

[MadMan]

When number8 and NickGlass both agree that this movie is bad, that's a sign not to see it. I might just wait for it to show up on TV, just like I did with the first flick. Which was actually a good thing, since on TV they showed the director's cut of the first movie anyways.

[megladon8]

I don't see how NickGlass saying something is bad makes anything definitive.

It's like saying "boy, that glass of ice water sure was cold."

[Winston*]

I don't see how NickGlass saying something is bad makes anything definitive.

It's like saying "boy, that glass of ice water sure was cold."

If NickGlass told me that a glass of ice water was cold, I would take it as the definitive statement on the temperature of that container of liquid.

[megladon8]

If NickGlass told me that a glass of ice water was cold, I would take it as the definitive statement on the temperature of that container of liquid.


That's perfect with your new avatar.

Which is brilliant, by the by.

[Boner M]

It's like saying "boy, that glass of ice water sure was cold."
Or "boy, meg liked that that superhero flick", eh?

ZING!

[megladon8]

Or "boy, meg liked that that superhero flick", eh?

ZING!


Ghost Rider sucked. So, eat it :P


And hey, though I'm skeptical about this one, I've read a few reviews that describe it as "a slasher with guns", and that certainly sounds intriguing. Not promising, but intriguing.

[Sycophant]

Milk (Van Sant, 2008): 8.0
FLAW DETECTED

[Ezee E]

Or "boy, meg liked that that superhero flick", eh?

ZING!
haha. I'm out of rep though.

[MadMan]

I don't see how NickGlass saying something is bad makes anything definitive.

It's like saying "boy, that glass of ice water sure was cold."You didn't read all of my post, did yah? :P Not that I really blame you. I rarely have anything of subsistence to say. I'm not even sure why I'm here. Could be the people.

PS: Also your avatar is great. Winston's avatar fits him all too well. Its too perfect.

[Ezee E]

Watching the Thomas Jane one on FX... It's awful.

[Morris Schæffer]

Watching the Thomas Jane one on FX... It's awful.

Yeah, I'm sure it's not much better than this new one.

[megladon8]

The Thomas Jane Punisher was made my Thomas Jane.

Had it been any other actor (like imagine if that guy Ray Stevenson from Rome was in it), it would have been complete balls.

As it is, I find it entertaining to watch Jane badass it up.

[Grouchy]

The Thomas Jane Punisher was made my Thomas Jane.

Had it been any other actor (like imagine if that guy Ray Stevenson from Rome was in it), it would have been complete balls.

As it is, I find it entertaining to watch Jane badass it up.
Nah, the movie is also very good. Almost like a throwback to '80s style action, with zero self-awereness. And that Russian fight scene is incredible.

[number8]

Yeah, I saw it again on FX, too, the night I saw this new one and it's clear that Jane's was the better one by a mile.

I like how that movie was criticized for its Florida location being bright and sunny and War Zone is supposed to be the gritty New York one, but it's all neon-ed up with orange, purple and green lights everywhere they go. Gritty my balls. It's a Joel Schumacher jizz party.

[MadMan]

Yeah, I saw it again on FX, too, the night I saw this new one and it's clear that Jane's was the better one by a mile.

I like how that movie was criticized for its Florida location being bright and sunny and War Zone is supposed to be the gritty New York one, but it's all neon-ed up with orange, purple and green lights everywhere they go. Gritty my balls. It's a Joel Schumacher jizz party.:lol: I don't believe I ever want to go to such a party.....

Also the first one is pretty well made, and very rock solid. Anchored by John Travolta as the bad guy (I actually prefer him playing heavies as its too cliche for him to be the hero at this point), and Thomas Jane being awesome. The fight scenes rock, and I do agree that it is very much a throwback to the 80s action flicks. My favorite character was the badass guitar playing hitman. That dude was cool.

[The Mike]

Nah, the movie is also very good. Almost like a throwback to '80s style action, with zero self-awereness. And that Russian fight scene is incredible.

Truth stated.

[Morris Schæffer]

Had it been any other actor (like imagine if that guy Ray Stevenson from Rome was in it), it would have been complete balls.

Meh I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of actors in Hollywood and around.

[megladon8]

Roger Moore's review of this is one of the worst reviews I have ever read. He manages to say absolutely nothing about the movie, other than it being full of gore.

He also insults Thomas Jane in the first paragraph, which is lame.


Is it weird that my interest is actually higher since the reviews have come in? Jen and I are going to see it together, and I expect we'll have a good, cheesy blast.

[NickGlass]

Eh, I'm not very happy with my review, but I throw it out there for you, Meg.

http://thelmagazine.com/6/34/Film/feature10.cfm?ctype=2

[megladon8]

Nice review, Nick.

I'm still looking forward to seeing it :) I don't think I feel the same yuck-ness as you do towards extreme violence.

[Grouchy]

Roger Moore reviews movies?

[Sycophant]

Roger Moore reviews movies?
Apparently, yes. But it's not that Roger Moore. Some syndicated newspaper critic from The Orlando Sentinel. Don't have an opinion on him because I never read him before today.

That said, if his chief complaint is that the film is senseless, explicit, amoral violence with a cliché griseled attitude, then I think he's made his case here. It's not a particularly profound review, but I don't find it a crime against criticism. It sounds like a review for the movie I saw a trailer for.

And why does Dominic West seem to embarrass himself in anything that isn't The Wire?

[megladon8]

Wow, Ebert didn't like it, but he had a lot of good to say about it...


You used to be able to depend on a bad film being poorly made. No longer...[it's]one of the best-made bad movies I've seen...It looks great, it hurtles through its paces and is well-acted. The soundtrack is like elevator music if the elevator were in a death plunge. The special effects are state of the art. Its only flaw is that it's disgusting.

[megladon8]

So this totally bombed, raking in only $4 million.

I predict in 2011, Ron Howard is brought on to reboot the series. Starring Tom Hanks as an aging Frank Castle, trying to take down Russell Crowe playing an aging mobster.

It's a coming-of-age story about two men on opposite sides of the law.

Written by Paul Haggis.

[Grouchy]

Bah, Ebert doesn't have any stomach or spine anyways.

[Ezee E]

Chan-Wook Park should reboot the series as his American debut.

[Skitch]

Good lord that was awful.

[megladon8]

That was utterly flabbergasting.

It contained one of the best pieces of dialogue this year...

NICKY: I'll see you in Hell, Frank.

FRANK: If I see you anywhere near Hell, I'll kick your fucking ass.


I feel like I witnessed something profound with this film. Really, its badness is so mind-boggling, it couldn't have possibly been unintentional. I mean, that black-Irish parkour guy? F'ing brilliant.

[Spun Lepton]

bad + lots of gore = laughs and fun

Is that the case with this? I heard it was pretty gruesome. I may have to rent it when it gets to DVD. I'll do a two-fer with Aliens vs. Predator 2, too. It'll be a night to remember.

[Skitch]

AVP:R did spring to mind while watching this...I liked AVP:R better.

[megladon8]

bad + lots of gore = laughs and fun

Is that the case with this? I heard it was pretty gruesome. I may have to rent it when it gets to DVD. I'll do a two-fer with Aliens vs. Predator 2, too. It'll be a night to remember.


Oh my god, this is EXACTLY what I thought while watching the movie! "This is like this year's Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem - dumb, loud, gorey, worst-movie-of-the-year material that is just too entertaining to pass up."

Jen and I had a blast laughing our asses off at this movie.

It's up there with House of the Dead in terms of "so bad it's good" material.

[D_Davis]

It's up there with House of the Dead in terms of "so bad it's good" material.

How many boobs does it show?

Clint Howard?

[megladon8]

How many boobs does it show?

Clint Howard?


No boobs, no Clint Howard.

But it has some of the best dialogue ever written.

'LOONEY BIN' JIM: They say kidneys and apple sauce are a delicacy. Yummy yummy yummy in my tummy tummy tummy.

[The Mike]

NO BOOBS!?!?

Fuck it, I'll wait for DVD. :sad:

[Morris Schæffer]

The hell? This was highly tolerable. Perhaps that it was the extreme violence that sort of gave this one an edge and, while I was watching it, I amusingly enough had to think of The Dark Knight and how that might have been even better had it had a few moments of gore. I thought Hutchison and West were really, madly, splendidly insane. Well, relatively speaking. They're not Ledger, but that's all right I guess.

Oh, this isn't a great comicbook movie and I liked Jane's portrayal a bit more, his pain was more heartfelt whereas here it dissapeared underneath all the ultra-violence.

It had some 80's vibes too and I had a bit of fun with Castle taking down 350 villains Arnie-style albeit without the oneliners.

I guess time went by pretty quickly and it was unlike any comic book movie I have ever seen even if its pleasures are fleeting and superficial.

*½ or **

[number8]

while I was watching it, I amusingly enough had to think of The Dark Knight and how that might have been even better had it had a few moments of gore.

What, really?

[Morris Schæffer]

What, really?

Kind of, but I've heard other people say the same thing, how a little - just a little! - bit of gore might have made the Joker even crueller, more imposing, terrifying. It's still the best movie of 2008 by far for me, but why does Jambol fall to the ground when the Joker goes Glaswegian on his ass? I mean fall as if dead?

[megladon8]

Probably because he was dead.

People usually fall down dead when they've been killed.

;)

[MadMan]

Saw this a couple months back, and I came to the conclusion that while I was entertained, its not really a good movie. There are some awesome moments, and unintentional and intentional humor involved, plus the action scenes really do kick ass. But the villain is poorly developed and not really interesting, and some moments are just god awful. I'd say that to my surprise there were only a handful of gory parts that I couldn't handle, which may speak to me slowly becoming desensitized to extreme violence. Or that the violence here was too much like a cartoon to be taken really seriously.

Oh and the African American Irish criminal was hilarious. My favorite part of the movie was when he jumps from one building to another, laughs heartily, and then as a guy leaps after him, he gets blown up by the Punisher. That scene was funnier than some of the worst comedies I've ever seen.

[Morris Schæffer]

Probably because he was dead.

People usually fall down dead when they've been killed.

;)

I don't think that the damage caused by Joker could have killed a big man like that. Unless he slit his throat.

[number8]

I don't think that the damage caused by Joker could have killed a big man like that. Unless he slit his throat.

I thought he straight up stabbed the dude in the brain.

[Morris Schæffer]

I thought he straight up stabbed the dude in the brain.

Are you thinking of the pencil trick?

Because I'm talking about when Joker is brought in, placed on a pool table, then proceeds to cut up Jambol's mouth.

[megladon8]

Are you thinking of the pencil trick?

Because I'm talking about when Joker is brought in, placed on a pool table, then proceeds to cut up Jambol's mouth.


He slit his throat.

[Morris Schæffer]

He slit his throat.

Then why does he say "let's put a smile on that face"? And the knife is clearly in his mouth.