What is the Greatest Loss in Film History?

[B-side]

By loss, I mean some sort of major artistic injustice, or footage that was destroyed with no copies having been made. Things like the rest of The Magnificent Ambersons. Welles' The Dreamers. Some of the hundreds of silent films that are completely gone. Eisenstein's Que Viva Mexico! was never finished. What was the project Fassbinder was going to start before he died? I know Leone had something lined up as well.

[balmakboor]

A purely Kubrick version of A.I. would've been interesting although I think Spielberg's version is one of the best of the decade.

Kubrick's Napoleon and Wartime Lies would've been sweet.

Lynch's Ronnie Rocket and One Saliva Bubble were terrific scripts.

I'd love to see Waters' intended ending for Heathers.

And every time I watch a film by Georges Melies, I'm saddened by the 100s of his that were lost.

[B-side]

A purely Kubrick version of A.I. would've been interesting although I think Spielberg's version is one of the best of the decade.

Kubrick's Napoleon and Wartime Lies would've been sweet.

Lynch's Ronnie Rocket and One Saliva Bubble were terrific scripts.

I'd love to see Waters' intended ending for Heathers.

And every time I watch a film by Georges Melies, I'm saddened by the 100s of his that were lost.

Kubrick's Napoleon! I remember hearing about that. Damn. You think he would've given it the Barry Lyndon sort of treatment?

[balmakboor]

Kubrick's Napoleon! I remember hearing about that. Damn. You think he would've given it the Barry Lyndon sort of treatment?

Lore has it that Barry Lyndon is what he made instead. His Napoleon script is floating around and people like Ridley Scott have thought about it.

I also read that Ang Lee is considering directing Kubrick's Wartime Lies script.

[B-side]

Lore has it that Barry Lyndon is what he made instead. His Napoleon script is floating around and people like Ridley Scott have thought about it.

I also read that Ang Lee is considering directing Kubrick's Wartime Lies script.

Perhaps it's for the better. Part of Kubrick's appeal is that he was able to dominate so many different genres and themes. One can't help but think if he'd made Wartime Lies, it would've taken away from Full Metal Jacket. Same could be said of Napoleon and Barry Lyndon.

[balmakboor]

Perhaps it's for the better. Part of Kubrick's appeal is that he was able to dominate so many different genres and themes. One can't help but think if he'd made Wartime Lies, it would've taken away from Full Metal Jacket. Same could be said of Napoleon and Barry Lyndon.

I don't understand your WL versus FMJ comparison. WL is a holocaust drama that Kubrick shelved when he saw Schindler's List -- or so the legend goes.

[B-side]

I don't understand your WL versus FMJ comparison. WL is a holocaust drama that Kubrick shelved when he saw Schindler's List -- or so the legend goes.

Only in that they're both war films. I don't know much of anything about Wartime Lies except its setting. I was just making the argument that the impact of the films he did end up making would've been lessened had he ended up making those as well.

[balmakboor]

Only in that they're both war films. I don't know much of anything about Wartime Lies except its setting. I was just making the argument that the impact of the films he did end up making would've been lessened had he ended up making those as well.

I see what you mean. I just never considered the two projects to be even close to the same genre. Kubrick did make two crackerjack war films though. Paths and FMJ.

[Ezee E]

Wartime Lies wouldn't have been anything close to FMJ, so that point is silly. He wouldn't have made Barry Lyndon if he got to do Napoleon as well. He only did Barry Lyndon because they wouldn't fund him for Napoleon.

[Ezee E]

By the way, Sergio Leone's WWII movie about the Russian Invasion would've been amazing.

[B-side]

Wartime Lies wouldn't have been anything close to FMJ, so that point is silly. He wouldn't have made Barry Lyndon if he got to do Napoleon as well. He only did Barry Lyndon because they wouldn't fund him for Napoleon.

You're missing my point, not that I made it particularly well in the first place.:P

[Pop Trash]

Speaking of Kubrick, I know the first draft of Heathers was three hours long and the screenwriter wanted Kubrick to direct it, since he thought he could be the only one to get away with a three hour long HS black comedy.

[balmakboor]

Speaking of Kubrick, I know the first draft of Heathers was three hours long and the screenwriter wanted Kubrick to direct it, since he thought he could be the only one to get away with a three hour long HS black comedy.

Where did you read that? I thought I knew most Kubrick lore. True though, Waters' original draft was about 180 pages.

[megladon8]

I still really want to see London After Midnight.

[Ezee E]

Where did you read that? I thought I knew most Kubrick lore. True though, Waters' original draft was about 180 pages.
Yeah, I've heard lots about Kubrick, but nothing about Heathers. Unless it was just a fever wish from someone that got no further than, "I wish Kubrick would direct this."

I've also heard that he, Fellini, and Bergman were going to do a set of short films together once. But I've never found anything about that either.

[balmakboor]

From a random review Google found:
"Lehmann and Waters set out to make the quintessential anti-John Hughes film, jokingly referring to their project as 'Stanley Kubrick's Heathers.'"

From Wikipedia:
"Daniel Waters wanted his screenplay to go to director Stanley Kubrick,[4] not only out of profound admiration for Kubrick but also from a perception that 'Kubrick was the only person that could get away with a three-hour film.' (The cafeteria scene opening Heathers was written as an homage to the barracks scene opening Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket.) After a number of failed attempts to get the script to Kubrick made Waters realize the apparent futility of the enterprise, he decided to give the script to Michael Lehmann, who then took it on with Denise Di Novi."

[4]...including Waters' initial thought that Heathers would be a great project for Stanley Kubrick...

So, it's basically like any fool writing a screenplay and then declaring it would be perfect for Stanley Kubrick.

[Pop Trash]

Right...who knows if Kubrick even sneezed in the direction of the script, but it still would have been cool IMO.

[balmakboor]

Right...who knows if Kubrick even sneezed in the direction of the script, but it still would have been cool IMO.

That's true. Or at least a Kubrick directed teen film would have been interesting. Probably the closest to that we'll ever get is Elephant with its homages to The Shining and what not.

[soitgoes...]

The loss of most (up to 90%) pre-WWII Japanese films. Also 4 Devils.

[number8]

Orson Welles' Batman. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14529)

[balmakboor]

I'd still like to see Jodorowsky's and Scott's versions of Dune. And I'm one of the few fans of Lynch's Dune.

[Qrazy]

The loss of all of the films that were shelved by the Communist regime and the filmmakers who were censured by the regime. Both Aleksei German and Tarkovsky made a fraction of the films they wanted to make because they had to fight the system so much.

[Ezee E]

Orson Welles' Batman. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14529)
Sounds great on paper. I'd like to see the production sketches.

[soitgoes...]

The loss of all of the films that were shelved by the Communist regime and the filmmakers who were censured by the regime. Both Aleksei German and Tarkovsky made a fraction of the films they wanted to make because they had to fight the system so much.
That's true, but the flip side is, think of all the great films that happened because of Communism's oppression. Films that spoke out in a subversive (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf5sakekBqI&feature=related) way.

Maybe not the greatest loss, but I would have loved to have seen what a Hollywood without the Hayes Code would've produced in its Golden Age. Censorship at its finest. There's nothing like watching a film from the 40's, and knowing that the bad guy's gonna get his comeuppance if only because the Code deems that he must.

[SirNewt]

Eisenstein's Ivan part III. The second film just kind of leaves you hanging.

[B-side]

Eisenstein's Ivan part III. The second film just kind of leaves you hanging.

I thought of this after I logged off. Major loss.

[Dead & Messed Up]

Orson Welles' Batman. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14529)

Yep. Although I wish Bogart hadn't turned down Two-Face. That would've been the greatest thing ever.

[number8]

Just making sure. You guys know Mark Millar made the whole thing up, yes?

[MadMan]

By the way, Sergio Leone's WWII movie about the Russian Invasion would've been amazing.I believe it was going to be about the battle of Stalingrad, scored by Morricone of course. That would have been beyond brilliant.

I don't give a shit if the planned project and all was real or not. Orson Welles' Batman would have put The Dark Knight to shame.

Even though maybe its for the best that it will never happen, part of me still wishes Scott and Cameron would have teamed up for that planned Alien 5 movie.

[Ezee E]

Would an Orson Welles Batman work? Hand-to-hand combat in early films was always pretty awful in my opinion, and I don't see a costume working out very well either.

I realize that it's now fake, but my statement still stands. It sounds better on paper than it actually would be I think.