Quantum of Solace (James Bond 22) [Archive] - Page 2

Grouchy

11-14-2008, 04:23 PM

If you're hinging pointedly on the word "critic," I go back and forth on it myself. He's as mainstream and accessible as you can get without being Walmart-Lowest-Common-Denominator, but I don't think he's ignorant of his charge nor apathetic to his work. He takes great, obvious joy in bringing what he considers to be good films to the attention of as many people as possible. And he knows and exploits and guards just how many people listen to his trademark. He's aware, but I think he's smart enough to use it well and always has been. Doesn't have to be writing for Cahiers to earn my regard.
He appears to have no actual taste of his own. He changes his mind on films constantly, bashes a lot of films by one director (Lynch) until magically changing his mind when he has already been accepted by the community (Mulholland Dr., which is even more difficult to understand than Lost Highway which he bashed), which shows very little backbone.

He's also famous for bashing films for obscure reasons or for things the film doesn't ever aim to be.

For me, he's a tagline creator, and nothing more.

Wryan

11-14-2008, 04:31 PM

He appears to have no actual taste of his own. He changes his mind on films constantly, bashes a lot of films by one director (Lynch) until magically changing his mind when he has already been accepted by the community (Mulholland Dr., which is even more difficult to understand than Lost Highway which he bashed), which shows very little backbone.

He's also famous for bashing films for obscure reasons or for things the film doesn't ever aim to be.

For me, he's a tagline creator, and nothing more.

I don't agree to no taste of his own, constantly, or backbone. Also, he has indeed been taken to task for bashing the things a film doesn't aim to be, but then utterly and often admits the fault and is honest about it. Ranking him up with the true trashy tagline creators strikes me as pretty grevious and excessive.

number8

11-14-2008, 05:44 PM

What LaLaland do you live in where a 5 is terrible?

I pick my scores arbitrarily.

Ezee E

11-15-2008, 12:55 PM

He appears to have no actual taste of his own. He changes his mind on films constantly, bashes a lot of films by one director (Lynch) until magically changing his mind when he has already been accepted by the community (Mulholland Dr., which is even more difficult to understand than Lost Highway which he bashed), which shows very little backbone.

He's also famous for bashing films for obscure reasons or for things the film doesn't ever aim to be.

For me, he's a tagline creator, and nothing more.
He's never been much of a David Lynch fan. Even back in the Elephant Man days.

Sven

11-15-2008, 05:47 PM

Lynch has been "accepted" since Blue Velvet. Plus, Ebert loved The Straight Story (which was pre-MD).

All critics are guilty of the things for which you decry Ebert. Get over it. [/done]

Ezee E

11-15-2008, 06:27 PM

Lynch has been "accepted" since Blue Velvet. Plus, Ebert loved The Straight Story (which was pre-MD).

All critics are guilty of the things for which you decry Ebert. Get over it. [/done]
Ah, The Straight Story. Everyone, including myself, forgets about that one when talking Lynch. Such a good movie.

Oh... this is the Bond thread? My bad.

Dukefrukem

11-16-2008, 02:17 AM

What LaLaland do you live in where a 5 is terrible?

compared to Casino Royale maybe?

Qrazy

11-16-2008, 08:55 AM

Lynch has been "accepted" since Blue Velvet. Plus, Ebert loved The Straight Story (which was pre-MD).

All critics are guilty of the things for which you decry Ebert. Get over it. [/done]

Pretty sure he gave Blue Velvet a bad review, at least initially.

Qrazy

11-16-2008, 08:55 AM

Ah, The Straight Story. Everyone, including myself, forgets about that one when talking Lynch. Such a good movie.

Oh... this is the Bond thread? My bad.

I don't forget about it nor do I forget what a cloying piece of shit I found it to be.

Sven

11-16-2008, 01:22 PM

Pretty sure he gave Blue Velvet a bad review, at least initially.

I'm talking about Grouchy's complaint that Ebert only liked Lynch once he was accepted. I'm saying that Lynch has pretty much always been accepted.

Raiders

11-16-2008, 11:44 PM

I think if given an actual story, Marc Forster's direction here could have made a pretty good film. He displays a rather haphazard but intriguing humanist touch in his handling of the action set-pieces (his attention to innocent bystanders almost makes you think the director has in mind the costliness of Bond's, and the franchise's, cavalier attitude towards death--that is, if the rest of the film didn't copy that same cavalier attitude). But then again I almost liked the lack of story and the one-note, rather forgettable villain as Forster and his screenwriters also seemed to want to make Bond's single-minded revenge quest the real heart of the film, both good and evil. But, it's a confused film, battling both the carry-over psychology of its predecessor and the devil-may-care playfulness that has, in my eyes, marred the franchise almost since its inception. It's brisk and inconsequential, something that Casino Royale was not.

But then again, maybe the real fault here simply lies with the character. The first film ended with a sad touch, the character's battle with his shred of humanity seemingly lost beneath the birth of the iconic character. And this film does nothing if not simply run with that reductive idea.

Stay Puft

11-17-2008, 04:36 AM

Hmmm. An adequate continuation of Casino Royale. I hold neither in high regard, but they have their pleasures (Daniel Craig foremost among them, perhaps).

I'm going to say the action scenes in both are not terribly good. Quantum, however, has individual shots far more interesting than anything in Casino, the problem being those individual shots are fleeting and often without substantial context. To be expected given the stylistic choice, I guess. And I have no idea what happened at the end of the floating opera sequence. I swear I blinked and missed everything as a result. I don't even know who was supposed to be getting killed, or was anybody? I remember a guy falling on a car...

Stay Puft

11-17-2008, 04:41 AM

Dead & Messed Up

11-17-2008, 06:03 AM

After Casino Royale showed a unique way of blending traditional Bond with the modern age of realistic action, this is a step too far in the latter direction. Specifically, the film is dominated by half-hearted efforts at topicality and mundane, mostly incoherent action sequences. By being so "modern" and "intense," the Bond saga now runs the danger of disappearing into the fabric of modern Hollywood action.

I didn't hate the film, but, no sir, I didn't like it.

MadMan

11-17-2008, 08:26 AM

I enjoyed the hell out of this movie. Is it Casino Royale? No. But is it entertaining? Yes. I also liked the villain better in this one than I did in Royale, although that's not saying much considering that unlike the past Bond films the villains really weren't all that important. I do like the idea that the organization featured in this film and Royale may be a new version of SPECTRE.

Also as much as I like the Bourne films I'm getting tired of them being praised to high hell. Ultimatum is the best of the bunch, and its still not a great film, although its certainly good. The first one was highly entertaining but kind of forgettable and the second film was merely rock solid. Casino Royale was better than all of them imo, and besides Bond came first. I know the books have existed for years but much of the style of the Bourne films reminds me of the show 24.

Morris Schæffer

11-17-2008, 10:38 AM

II also liked the villain better in this one than I did in Royale, although that's not saying much considering that unlike the past Bond films the villains really weren't all that important.

That's saying tons. About you being nuts my good friend!:crazy:;)

Skitch

11-17-2008, 11:07 AM

I like that they are swaying away from a lot of the old Bond ways. That was great.

Yxklyx

11-17-2008, 11:29 AM

I like that they are swaying away from a lot of the old Bond ways. That was great.

So is the "James Bond theme music" still used for these new Bond films?

Skitch

11-17-2008, 01:13 PM

So is the "James Bond theme music" still used for these new Bond films?

Much more subtlely than the Pierce Brosnan ungodly loud horns.

Wryan

11-17-2008, 04:01 PM

I don't forget about it nor do I forget what a cloying piece of shit I found it to be.

You crazy, kemosabe.

Melville

11-17-2008, 05:21 PM

What a thoroughly mediocre movie. A sequence of mediocre action sequences strung together by references to the previous movie.

Wryan

11-17-2008, 06:01 PM

What a thoroughly mediocre movie. A sequence of mediocre action sequences strung together by references to the previous movie.

The Speed 2 of the Bond franchise?

Melville

11-17-2008, 07:27 PM

The Speed 2 of the Bond franchise?
I haven't seen Speed 2, but I'm going to go with 'yes.'

Wryan

11-17-2008, 07:34 PM

I haven't seen Speed 2, but I'm going to go with 'yes.'

It has Willem Defoe, at least. But then so did Boondock Saints. :(

Morris Schæffer

11-17-2008, 10:28 PM

I prefer the action in Speed 2. Yes, I really do!

Winston*

11-17-2008, 10:35 PM

So no amazing parkour sequences in this one? That sucks.

Melville

11-17-2008, 11:24 PM

So no amazing parkour sequences in this one? That sucks.
No amazing anything. All the action scenes seemed like tepid versions of scenes from the Bourne movies: "gritty" and somewhat disorienting, but without the propulsive sense of momentum. (Though they are different in their groan-inducing cross-cuts to horse races and operas.)

Dukefrukem

11-17-2008, 11:26 PM

I prefer the action in Speed 2. Yes, I really do!

wgoa/./////.... that makes me NOT want to see this movie at all.

Ivan Drago

11-18-2008, 12:03 AM

I thought this was quite good. Not as good story-wise as Casino Royale was, but as an action movie I thought it was awesome.

Spinal

11-18-2008, 12:11 AM

What I really want to know is how much of the film this time is devoted to watching Texas hold-em poker. 40%? 50%?

Raiders

11-18-2008, 01:27 AM

What I really want to know is how much of the film this time is devoted to watching Texas hold-em poker. 40%? 50%?

It could've used it. I loved those scenes in the last film.

DavidSeven

11-18-2008, 02:58 AM

Appears the chief complaints I had about Casino Royale have only been heightened here, and that was bad enough as is. Pass.

Watashi

11-18-2008, 03:14 AM

Appears the chief complaints I had about Casino Royale have only been heightened here, and that was bad enough as is. Pass.
You haven't seen a movie since I'm Not There.

I'm surprised you still watch movies.

DavidSeven

11-18-2008, 03:25 AM

You haven't seen a movie since I'm Not There.

I'm surprised you still watch movies.

I watch them. I just don't really rate them or talk about them anymore. Good thing I spend my spare time on a movie forum.

Watashi

11-18-2008, 03:26 AM

I watch them. I just don't really rate them or talk about them anymore. Good thing I spend my spare time on a movie forum.

:|

Come back to us.

Derek

11-18-2008, 03:31 AM

No amazing anything. All the action scenes seemed like tepid versions of scenes from the Bourne movies: "gritty" and somewhat disorienting, but without the propulsive sense of momentum. (Though they are different in their groan-inducing cross-cuts to horse races and operas.)

Yeah, what was up with the constant cross-cutting? It was laughably amateurish to the point that I actually recalled Rob Lowe having sex with his girlfriend in his room being cross-cut with his mom chopping vegetables in Youngblood. And anything that reminds you of Youngblood is not a good thing.

Derek

11-18-2008, 03:32 AM

I watch them. I just don't really rate them or talk about them anymore. Good thing I spend my spare time on a movie forum.

You and Qrazy need to delete your signatures please.

Watashi

11-18-2008, 03:33 AM

The opera scene is the best scene in the film. Nothing groan-inducing about it.

megladon8

11-18-2008, 03:34 AM

So no amazing parkour sequences in this one? That sucks.

I always found there to be something slightly offputting about the parkour scene in Casino Royale.

I was surprised that there wasn't some complaint about it resulting in the scene being removed.

Winston*

11-18-2008, 03:45 AM

I always found there to be something slightly offputting about the parkour scene in Casino Royale.

I was surprised that there wasn't some complaint about it resulting in the scene being removed.
Huh?

Dead & Messed Up

11-18-2008, 03:59 AM

The opera scene is the best scene in the film. Nothing groan-inducing about it.

:confused:

Explain.

Kurosawa Fan

11-18-2008, 04:01 AM

The poker scene couldn't have been more lame in CR. The hands, the narration by that moustachioed fellow, the brief break to restart the heart, etc. Nothing but Vespa's dress was good about that entire segment of the film.

Watashi

11-18-2008, 04:03 AM

:confused:

Explain.
It was awesome?

Dead & Messed Up

11-18-2008, 04:37 AM

It was awesome?

I thought it was an obnoxious editing decision with nothing of value besides cross-cuttery for its own sake.

Silencio

11-18-2008, 05:22 AM

The chase/fight after Bond and Greene make eye-contact during the opera scene is edited exactly like a trailer. It's ridiculous.

number8

11-18-2008, 05:45 AM

I thought it was an obnoxious editing decision with nothing of value besides cross-cuttery for its own sake.

It was fucking annoying. I don't have a problem with ironic scoring or juxtaposition visuals, but the execution in that scene was incredibly awkward and pointless. Just terrible editing all around.

Honestly, I have no idea why people are so forgiving of this movie because it's an action movie, even after acknowledging its narrative weakness. What the hell is entertaining about it? It has shitty action! The plane dogfight was one of the most boring action scenes I can remember this year. There's a total of one action scene that was actually cool, and it was a total aping of Bourne (the one-on-one fight in the apartment). My entire enjoyment of the movie was pretty much just laughing at M's lines and ogling at Olga Kulyenko and Daniel Craig (which, btw, needed more shirtless scenes).

Qrazy

11-18-2008, 06:00 AM

You and Qrazy need to delete your signatures please.

Meh I'll update.

Morris Schæffer

11-18-2008, 10:54 AM

EvilShoe

11-18-2008, 11:27 AM

So how could it have been less lame? Should the moustachioed dude have brought a monkey?
Did you see Loft yet?

(Haven't gotten around to QoS, maybe next week.)

Kurosawa Fan

11-18-2008, 12:37 PM

So how could it have been less lame? Should the moustachioed dude have brought a monkey?

Not sure it could have been. At this point, ESPN has eliminated any interest I ever have in watching Texas Hold 'Em.

Benny Profane

11-18-2008, 01:02 PM

So were there at least nude silhouettes at the beginning unlike Casino Royale?

number8

11-18-2008, 04:02 PM

So were there at least nude silhouettes at the beginning unlike Casino Royale?

Yes.

I kind of hated that opening.

Melville

11-18-2008, 04:05 PM

Yes.
But this time they came out of the desert like giant sand-monsters.

Melville

11-18-2008, 04:13 PM

The opera scene is the best scene in the film. Nothing groan-inducing about it.
It struck me as a pretty lame, hackneyed attempt to add "resonance" or drama to a scene that had none. (And why don't the members of this top-secret super-villainous organization know better than to reveal their identities by suddenly leaving their seats?) However, now that I think about it, it probably was the best scene in the film.

Grouchy

11-18-2008, 05:00 PM

It struck me as a pretty lame, hackneyed attempt to add "resonance" or drama to a scene that had none. (And why don't the members of this top-secret super-villainous organization know better than to reveal their identities by suddenly leaving their seats?) However, now that I think about it, it probably was the best scene in the film.
Huh... They were already spotted. All of them. They simply left while they could.

I liked this movie. A lot. I don't think it's any worse than Casino Royale, actually. Review to come.

number8

11-18-2008, 05:04 PM

Huh... They were already spotted. All of them. They simply left while they could.

One guy was smart enough to realize it was a trick and stayed seated. So I guess the point of that scene is that all the members are dumb except one dude, who's probably going to be the villain in the next movie.

Grouchy

11-18-2008, 05:31 PM

One guy was smart enough to realize it was a trick and stayed seated. So I guess the point of that scene is that all the members are dumb except one dude, who's probably going to be the villain in the next movie.
That guy was Mr. White from the first scene, I think.

Melville

11-18-2008, 05:49 PM

Huh... They were already spotted. All of them. They simply left while they could.
No they weren't. Bond thanked them as they got up; if they hadn't gotten up, he wouldn't have known which people were talking.

Morris Schæffer

11-18-2008, 06:40 PM

Did you see Loft yet?

I did. Really good movie that manages to thrill while also having an own identity which I thought Alzheimer kinda lacked at times. Not sure the plotting is entirely airtight, but it's a good one.

EvilShoe

11-18-2008, 07:15 PM

I did. Really good movie that manages to thrill while also having an own identity which I thought Alzheimer kinda lacked at times. Not sure the plotting is entirely airtight, but it's a good one.
Hm, I thought it was merely ok.
Too much plot and twists, not enough depth character-wise.

But yes, better than Alzheimer.

Boner M

11-19-2008, 11:44 AM

I've just realised that Marc Forster's filmography is basically the equivalent of Max Fischer's extra-curricular montage in Rushmore.

Dukefrukem

11-22-2008, 12:58 AM

I enjoyed it.

megladon8

11-29-2008, 02:44 AM

This is why my friend Frank didn't like the movie (quoted from an MSN conversation)...

Frank says:
well, this was an error in Casino Royale that was passed onto QOS because nobody checked their facts. In Royale, when Bond creates the Vesper martini he says "3 measures of Gordon's (gin), 1 of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet" which is lifted word for word from the novel, and was right at the time (1954) but not anymore, since those measurements are way too small for a modern cocktail glass
Frank says:
and Kina Lillet doesn't exist anymore
Frank says:
I would've thought they'd fixed this in QOS - they even made a side comment of a bartender saying "Kina Lillet - which is not vermouth", oblivious to the fact that Kina Lillet doesn't exist. The closest alternative is Lillet Blanc, but it's not nearly as bitter due to a much smaller amount of quinine

number8

11-29-2008, 05:16 PM

At least it's not a mustache.

Qrazy

11-30-2008, 04:13 AM

I liked it. It never really built into anything substantial but it was a fun ride and that's all I expect from a Bond film.

Qrazy

11-30-2008, 04:17 AM

Oh, and the opening scene is great, at least until you realize how mediocre the action itself is going to be (but again, there are some individual shots that are simply awesome and belong in a better car chase).

Yeah I thought shot for shot the film was solid but someone needs to slap the editor in the face. Almost the entire film could use half as many shots if each shot lasted twice as long.

lovejuice

06-06-2010, 02:32 PM

what a poor piss! with some bias on my part, this is closest to the worst bond's i've ever watched. even die another day -- generally regarded as among the worst -- has some perverted sense of fun. QoS feels like it's chopped into 10 pieces, and each section is given to different directors. it combines the weakest elements from different kinds of bond and demonstrates par excellent what happens when you try to satisfy everyone.

megladon8

06-06-2010, 04:36 PM

Gemma Arterton is a terrible actress.

She's wonderful to look at, for sure, but I can't help being anxious for when she finally goes away.

lovejuice

06-07-2010, 03:57 AM

Gemma Arterton is a terrible actress.

She's wonderful to look at, for sure, but I can't help being anxious for when she finally goes away.
her death scene could have been staged much sexier. it seems forster himself aint' so sure how much is paying homage and how much is pathetic attempt.